USB-C Has Finally Come into Its Own(wired.com)
wired.com
USB-C Has Finally Come into Its Own
https://www.wired.com/story/usb-c-surface-pro-kindle-ps5-iphone-standard/
190 comments
I didn't come to appreciate the power of USB-C until I started using it with my laptop. It is a single cable that connects to my monitor, powers the laptop, provides USB access to the keyboard and mouse, and to the hub on the monitor. This is a big enough improvement to the desktop-style workflow, since there is only a single wire, and no docking station. It's trivial to jump between desktop mode and laptop mode. That's usability changing experience with USB-C.
It's really great for travel. I can bring one charger that works for my phone, my MacBook, and my work PC.
Ironically, one of the reasons I went with Android instead of iPhone last time I bought a phone was that I could use my MacBook charger with it.
Ironically, one of the reasons I went with Android instead of iPhone last time I bought a phone was that I could use my MacBook charger with it.
I charge my iPhone 8 with a USB-C to Lightining cable connected to the MacBook's power adapter
Sure, you have 1 more cable to throw in your bag but it's not a big deal.
Sure, you have 1 more cable to throw in your bag but it's not a big deal.
And some cameras (e.g. Canon EOS-RP)
That thing charges my phone in 30 minutes
Is it safe? Most fast charging android phones have 18W chargers, and Macbook has 45 to 60W charger.
Fast charging depends on the compatibility with certain standards (USB-PD or Qualcomm Quickcharge). If it can't communicate that it resorts to the default, which is 5v/0.9A or 4.5W.
So you would need compatible cables to make fast charging work, and then it will only fast charge up to 80% and then slow down.
USB-PD is the standard for power delivery and Apple (and Google) both rely on that, so if it's USB-PD compatible it'll support the quickest charging it can handle.
So you would need compatible cables to make fast charging work, and then it will only fast charge up to 80% and then slow down.
USB-PD is the standard for power delivery and Apple (and Google) both rely on that, so if it's USB-PD compatible it'll support the quickest charging it can handle.
Don't you need to be really careful with which chargers you use with each device, regardless of the cable type? Pretty sure USB-C headphones shouldn't be charged with a USB-C Macbook Pro wall charger.
> Pretty sure USB-C headphones shouldn't be charged with a USB-C Macbook Pro wall charger.
Unless explicitly negotiated by both ends, every USB-C charger outputs the same boring 5 volts as classic USB, so the headphones should charge just fine.
Unless explicitly negotiated by both ends, every USB-C charger outputs the same boring 5 volts as classic USB, so the headphones should charge just fine.
The major exception to this is the Nintendo Switch that, due to shit design on Nintendo's part, can asplode itself.
The Switch dock had some implementation issues but they didn't break anything.
The only time things break is when you attach a broken charger that outputs 9 volts onto a wire that's supposed to be doing 2 volt signals.
The only time things break is when you attach a broken charger that outputs 9 volts onto a wire that's supposed to be doing 2 volt signals.
Only when used with another fault charger, which basically are extinct now.
Switch charges just fine from a MacBook power adapter. The issues are hugely overblown.
What's the problem with it?
They are wrong. The Switch console itself is USB-C standard compliant. The dock has a slightly smaller plug to make it easier to dock / undock the console. 3rd parties try to replicate the smaller plug but don't get the tolerances right causing a miswiring.
I can’t charge my phone with the Nintendo Switch charger, it switches on and off repeatedly and doesn't charge. And my other USB-C chargers don't negotiate the power needed with the Switch so it charges very slowly if you don't use the included charger.
My phone charges fine with a Nintendo Switch power adapter.
In fact, I am doing it right now.
Output on the adapter reads: [email protected]/[email protected]
In fact, I am doing it right now.
Output on the adapter reads: [email protected]/[email protected]
I charge the Switch console just fine with a PD USB-C charger. PD is very negotiable and the Switch only supports a few voltages so your charger must support the same voltages.
As far as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), every proper charger is supposed to support the exact same list of power combinations from 0 up to whatever its max wattage is.
The switch dock demands 39 watts, which implies 15 volts, but the switch itself will negotiate any voltage when standalone.
The switch dock demands 39 watts, which implies 15 volts, but the switch itself will negotiate any voltage when standalone.
> Pretty sure USB-C headphones shouldn't be charged with a USB-C Macbook Pro wall charger.
That should be fine. There's a protocol for the charger and the device to communicate and decide what power to charge at.
That should be fine. There's a protocol for the charger and the device to communicate and decide what power to charge at.
Chargers - no. Cables can be a problem tho.
Also some devices don't support anything else but USB-A to C cable that comes in a box. That's why I returned JBL Charge 4 and got Anker Soundcore Motion+. Much crispier stereo sound at expense of some base.
Also some devices don't support anything else but USB-A to C cable that comes in a box. That's why I returned JBL Charge 4 and got Anker Soundcore Motion+. Much crispier stereo sound at expense of some base.
In spec devices will not have any issues. At worst your device will charger slower than it could.
Unfortunately a lot of devices are out of spec like the Nintendo switch which can be damaged by an in spec charger.
Unfortunately a lot of devices are out of spec like the Nintendo switch which can be damaged by an in spec charger.
To be fair USB chargers weren't universal, either. I have a JBL Bluetooth speaker that I can't charge with any charger except the one that came with it
I've started doing the same thing for my company - I now exclusively buy LG 27BK67-U or 27MU88 monitors which provide great USB-C support (power + video + USB hub) and eliminates all of the unnecessary dongles/adapters that failed every 6 months.
I found the shift a pain on my MacBook Pro - mostly because of the confusion over power output and external display resolution/refresh rates. But, I've managed it. I have a single cable powering my MacBook with USB ethernet, ultrawide monitor and keyboard and mouse. Docking is very simple now.
But you never know when it will work. You can daisy chain current MacBook Pros for charging. Which seems amazing. But you need to plug in to the correct USB-C port and daisy from the correct port.
There was lots of backlash on Apple when they released the new Macbook Pro with only USB-C. I was happy with the change, however. I do struggle with multiple adapters now but I see that the only way to change the future is to force everyone to come and implement the new standard.
This is a change (like Flash) that Apple forced and should be credited for.
This is a change (like Flash) that Apple forced and should be credited for.
> I was happy with the change [...] I do struggle with multiple adapters now but I see that the only way to change the future is to force everyone [...]
Well I am not happy with the change, because I don't want to be the hostage in that plan of "changing the future". I want my stuff to work and get things done. I don't want to struggle to change the future. I don't want to force everyone. I want stuff to work.
Apple providing USB-C ports in addition to USB-A sockets would have been great. Apple removing USB-A is a major problem for some of us.
Well I am not happy with the change, because I don't want to be the hostage in that plan of "changing the future". I want my stuff to work and get things done. I don't want to struggle to change the future. I don't want to force everyone. I want stuff to work.
Apple providing USB-C ports in addition to USB-A sockets would have been great. Apple removing USB-A is a major problem for some of us.
I can see that it is an annoyance (need of USB-C to USB-A adapter), but where is the "major problem"?
Playing devil's advocate, it can be a major problem if these USB-C to USB-A adapters can't be found anywhere. Around here, I've looked at several physical stores, and nowhere seems to sell an adapter from USB-C plug to USB-A socket. Or even a straight USB-C to USB-C cable; what these stores call "USB-C cable" is always an USB-A plug to USB-C plug cable.
Apple has far less to do with USB C’s adoption than the tens or hundreds of millions of Android phones.
Once peripheral makers etc are already have in house experience and knowledge with USB C thanks to their phone departments, it makes far more sense to release USB C peripherals even at the desktop level, so the removal of USB A ports from the MBP likely played a very small to no role in the transition.
Even if the MBP had both USB C and USB A ports, peripheral makers would likely have preferred making their peripherals USB C compatible.
Once peripheral makers etc are already have in house experience and knowledge with USB C thanks to their phone departments, it makes far more sense to release USB C peripherals even at the desktop level, so the removal of USB A ports from the MBP likely played a very small to no role in the transition.
Even if the MBP had both USB C and USB A ports, peripheral makers would likely have preferred making their peripherals USB C compatible.
I mostly agree, except my USB-C dock/hub has terrible audio. I shouldn't be able to hear data flowing through any device. Audio direct from the laptop is much cleaner.
> “but we expect that as the adoption of USB Type-C products and USB Power Delivery continues to increase the market will guide [manufacturers] toward a common implementation.”
I'd really like this, but I don't know if it'll ever happen. The situation, as it stands now, is a mess:
The Raspberry Pi finally got USB-C, but they botched the implementation. As did the Nintendo switch. Even with phones and audio, there's like two different kinds of dongles and you never know which will work? https://youtu.be/Ly-bSBHOSIo
Not to mention that there's a ridiculous number of standards that a USB-C device can support, but you have no way of knowing what by looking at it physically. Power delivery? Not on most non-high-end Windows laptops. Data? On most, except the Raspberry Pi? QuickCharge? Sometimes. Video? Only with some phones and laptops. Not most non-high-end devices.
You always have to look it up, it's a huge mess.
I'd really like this, but I don't know if it'll ever happen. The situation, as it stands now, is a mess:
The Raspberry Pi finally got USB-C, but they botched the implementation. As did the Nintendo switch. Even with phones and audio, there's like two different kinds of dongles and you never know which will work? https://youtu.be/Ly-bSBHOSIo
Not to mention that there's a ridiculous number of standards that a USB-C device can support, but you have no way of knowing what by looking at it physically. Power delivery? Not on most non-high-end Windows laptops. Data? On most, except the Raspberry Pi? QuickCharge? Sometimes. Video? Only with some phones and laptops. Not most non-high-end devices.
You always have to look it up, it's a huge mess.
USB-A had the same growing pains. I recall buying a USB hub around 2000ish that used to crash randomly. It wasn't until the mid 2000s til you could get hubs that were reliable.
There was also a myriad of charging options around the launch of the iPad. It was a hit or miss gamble with chargers, cables and devices. Maybe you'll get 1A? Maybe not?
USB-C is a complex standard, but the chipsets and processes are improving and this pain will be a distant memory - just like all those USB-A pains we had.
There was also a myriad of charging options around the launch of the iPad. It was a hit or miss gamble with chargers, cables and devices. Maybe you'll get 1A? Maybe not?
USB-C is a complex standard, but the chipsets and processes are improving and this pain will be a distant memory - just like all those USB-A pains we had.
Counterexample: Bluetooth has been around for a good while and outside of well-tested vertically integrated setups it's still a hot mess.
I would argue that Bluetooth always was and always will be a shitty technology. It's not growing pains, it's just bad. Nothing can fix that, just throwing it away and starting over.
Which part of Bluetooth do you dislike? These days it’s more like a family of standards.
This is the problem. Just because two devices both feature the Bluetooth logo doesn't actually mean they'll play nicely together.
How about not being able to rename devices? And vendors choosing the most ridiculous device names?
I bought my kids two identical headphones. How do I make sure each headphone is connected to the right device? It's infuriating.
(It's possible to change the name of all Apple bluetooth devices, but why other vendors don't copy this feature is something I just don't understand)
I bought my kids two identical headphones. How do I make sure each headphone is connected to the right device? It's infuriating.
(It's possible to change the name of all Apple bluetooth devices, but why other vendors don't copy this feature is something I just don't understand)
I believe the commenter has no idea and is just repeating a common phrase.
To take an example, BLE is really quite good, and works reliably.
To take an example, BLE is really quite good, and works reliably.
It's slow. Transfering videos from my iPhone to my MacBook happens very fast, sending a video from a friends Android phone to my Thinkpad takes forever.
Over Bluetooth? Yeah, that would be slow. The Apple devices are almost certainly spinning up a WiFi connection to actually move the data. I imagine that both the Android phone and the ThinkPad can be taught how to do that, but it doesn't surprise me that it didn't just work out of the box.
At least for audio like wireless headphones I've had minimal issues with tech made in the last 5 years. The chip in my desktop is from like 2011 and has some lag but I don't have any from other systems.
I remember, it was such that I despised USB for many years, but then it reached a level of ubiquity and maturity that made it really great. Like you, I think that in a few years this will all be like USB-a in the late '90s/early 2000s.
Probably just in time for USB4 / USB-D to come and mess it all up again ;)
The plug will be shaped like an X so you have four possible orientations for plugging it in, unlike the two that type-C has. What an upgrade!
And the final upgrade will be a round plug allowing infinite number of orientations for plugging it in. What an upgrade! I can't wait to get a charger with such a plug... oh... wait...
it happened before:
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/nokia-ac-5-mobile-devic...
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/nokia-ac-5-mobile-devic...
I honestly don't think that's acceptable. It shouldn't take 5 years of consumer pain to get a technology right when we already have 2 decades of prior engineering experience to help us get this right on day one of release.
A lot of the implementation bugs will get worked out eventually, but I don't really see how the more fundamental usability issues around port capabilities (Video? Thunderbolt? USB-PD? Quick Charge? Data rates?) or cable capabilities (USB2/USB3 speeds, current/voltage limits, TB support) get worked out over time-- all that seems to come with the territory when you try to build the "one connector to rule them all" (so to speak).
It would be fine if there was clear branding. For some reason manufacturerers refuse to list all of the modes supported even in the spec sheet. It's just "usb-c" sometimes it isn't even usb3. At most they will say if it supports thunderbolt or not.
It's kind of impressive how much manufacturers mess up implementations of PD when there's single-chip PD and Type-C controllers that manage the whole show for you [1] like the TPS65986.
[1] https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/t/texas-instrum...
[1] https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/t/texas-instrum...
I remember hearing complaints from hardware engineers about the non-existence of such a chip in the not too distant past, so the answer might be that it simply wasn't available in time for the design cycle of the products currently on the market.
That chip is pretty expensive. At $6.46/ea (in production quantities) it's a lot more than most cheap microcontrollers.
For the hobby (/etsy/small-run-on-ebay) market there's also the fact that the average hobbyist doesn't have access to soldering equipment that is good at BGA parts.
For the hobby (/etsy/small-run-on-ebay) market there's also the fact that the average hobbyist doesn't have access to soldering equipment that is good at BGA parts.
I've used STUSB4500 [1] in my latest project. Super simple and low external component count. Cheap too.
[1]: https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STUSB...
[1]: https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STUSB...
That's awesome, thanks! I'll probably revise my ongoing USB-C nixie tube clock design project to include one :)
It's a mess because the RPi4 engineers didn't follow the USB-C spec exactly as Benson Leung has been saying for years [0]. They made it harder than it was and messed it up in the process of rolling their own.
https://medium.com/@leung.benson/how-to-design-a-proper-usb-...
https://medium.com/@leung.benson/how-to-design-a-proper-usb-...
My experiences with USB-C/TB3 have not been great...
I have to clean the USB-C port on my Android phone every couple of months otherwise it won't charge because the cable won't completely fit into the port. A thicker port means now more fibers and dirt can get in. This never happened to me with micro USB or lightning ports.
The Nintendo Switch has a USB-C port which means you should be able to use any USB-C to HDMI cable or dock to charge it or connect it to a TV, right? Nope. You can only use the official expensive dock or USB-C cables. Otherwise you can brick your Switch. [1]
I bought a cable for TB3 to connect an SSD to my iMac and instead of getting 40Gbps I only got 480Mbps... my fault for not reading the small print, but having the same connectors for different protocols is not a smart idea either.
So I bought a real 40Gbps TB3 cable and then discovered whenever I plug anything on the TB3 ports of my iMac the CPU temps increase by 10ºC which makes the fans audible pretty much all the time. I opted for using USB3 which uses pretty cheap cables, is fast enough, and doesn't heat up my iMac.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/04/nintendo-warns-agains...
I have to clean the USB-C port on my Android phone every couple of months otherwise it won't charge because the cable won't completely fit into the port. A thicker port means now more fibers and dirt can get in. This never happened to me with micro USB or lightning ports.
The Nintendo Switch has a USB-C port which means you should be able to use any USB-C to HDMI cable or dock to charge it or connect it to a TV, right? Nope. You can only use the official expensive dock or USB-C cables. Otherwise you can brick your Switch. [1]
I bought a cable for TB3 to connect an SSD to my iMac and instead of getting 40Gbps I only got 480Mbps... my fault for not reading the small print, but having the same connectors for different protocols is not a smart idea either.
So I bought a real 40Gbps TB3 cable and then discovered whenever I plug anything on the TB3 ports of my iMac the CPU temps increase by 10ºC which makes the fans audible pretty much all the time. I opted for using USB3 which uses pretty cheap cables, is fast enough, and doesn't heat up my iMac.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/04/nintendo-warns-agains...
> This never happened to me with micro USB or lightning ports
This happens regularly to the lightning ports among my family&friends. "My iPhone keeps stopping charging" "did you clean out the lint with a toothpick?" "Oh"
> Otherwise you can brick your Switch
The bricking was happening due to a faulty third-party dock that was sending 9V on a 5V line. Nothing to do with the Switch itself. You can use any old USB-C charger with the Switch, as long as it's not faulty.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ckaiiv/an_e...
This happens regularly to the lightning ports among my family&friends. "My iPhone keeps stopping charging" "did you clean out the lint with a toothpick?" "Oh"
> Otherwise you can brick your Switch
The bricking was happening due to a faulty third-party dock that was sending 9V on a 5V line. Nothing to do with the Switch itself. You can use any old USB-C charger with the Switch, as long as it's not faulty.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ckaiiv/an_e...
I previously worked in an environment where iPads were distributed to staff; the team responsible for supporting them had toothpicks on hand for this exact reason.
An argument may exist for lint etc being harder to clean out of a USB-C port once it had made its way in there, but haven't witnessed it myself yet.
Anecdotes can be given all day, but I would suggest it's a potential problem for any port of similar size being placed in pockets and bags.
An argument may exist for lint etc being harder to clean out of a USB-C port once it had made its way in there, but haven't witnessed it myself yet.
Anecdotes can be given all day, but I would suggest it's a potential problem for any port of similar size being placed in pockets and bags.
> You can use any old USB-C charger with the Switch, as long as it's not faulty.
But you cannot use any USB-C to HDMI adapter.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/7qgy9d/has_...
But you cannot use any USB-C to HDMI adapter.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/7qgy9d/has_...
> sending 9V on a 5V line.
From what I could find after an hour of digging through USB specs is that that line is actually supposed to use 2V signals. (Though it's possible I misread.) So the faulty dock is even worse!
For the switch to tolerate 6V on that wire is already a healthy buffer. How hard is it to keep things 5V or less on the data wires of a USB device?
From what I could find after an hour of digging through USB specs is that that line is actually supposed to use 2V signals. (Though it's possible I misread.) So the faulty dock is even worse!
For the switch to tolerate 6V on that wire is already a healthy buffer. How hard is it to keep things 5V or less on the data wires of a USB device?
I don't think it was just docks I had my switch brick and I never used any 3rd part docks and the chargers I used were all either Anker (both wall and battery packs), Google phone, or Nintendo chargers.
"The Nintendo Switch has a USB-C port which means you should be able to use any USB-C to HDMI cable or dock to charge it or connect it to a TV, right? Nope. You can only use the official expensive dock or USB-C cables."
AIUI, the way this all shook out (that's an early story) is that you can stick any USB-C charger you want into the Switch directly, and it'll work fine without bricking anything. However, when a dock gets involved, it gets more complicated. The easiest and safest way to remember the matrix of safe vs. unsafe is "use the official dock directly and don't do anything else". Technically there are other safe things in the matrix, such as using the USB cable with a proper resistor in it, but it's all too easy to get any other such policy wrong, and not usually worth it.
Not that you're wrong to complain about the bricking issue. It's broken. It's just not quite as totally broken as some of the early articles thought. (For obvious reasons, nobody was too interested in conducting careful experiments to nail down all the variables.)
AIUI, the way this all shook out (that's an early story) is that you can stick any USB-C charger you want into the Switch directly, and it'll work fine without bricking anything. However, when a dock gets involved, it gets more complicated. The easiest and safest way to remember the matrix of safe vs. unsafe is "use the official dock directly and don't do anything else". Technically there are other safe things in the matrix, such as using the USB cable with a proper resistor in it, but it's all too easy to get any other such policy wrong, and not usually worth it.
Not that you're wrong to complain about the bricking issue. It's broken. It's just not quite as totally broken as some of the early articles thought. (For obvious reasons, nobody was too interested in conducting careful experiments to nail down all the variables.)
I agree but like you said it's a real issue.
Another issue is that not all USB-C cables to HDMI work either because I think I read somewhere that Nintendo didn't follow the HDMI specs.
It's not USB-C's fault of course but I've never seen so many issues with USB1, 2, or 3.
Another issue is that not all USB-C cables to HDMI work either because I think I read somewhere that Nintendo didn't follow the HDMI specs.
It's not USB-C's fault of course but I've never seen so many issues with USB1, 2, or 3.
Sounds like anecdotal issues with USB C and possibly a firmware issue on the iMac.
I haven't had a single issue listed here in any of my own systems or when working as desktop support.
I haven't had a single issue listed here in any of my own systems or when working as desktop support.
> I have to clean the USB-C port on my Android phone every couple of months otherwise it won't charge ... this never happened to me with micro USB or lightning ports.
You're lucky. I just did a quick poll of the 12 iPhone users near me, and 8 of us have cleaned out our lightning ports in the last 3 months. 2 just cleaned out now as they realised this is what was causing their charging problems.
You're lucky. I just did a quick poll of the 12 iPhone users near me, and 8 of us have cleaned out our lightning ports in the last 3 months. 2 just cleaned out now as they realised this is what was causing their charging problems.
> I bought a cable for TB3 to connect an SSD to my iMac and instead of getting 40Gbps I only got 480Mbps... my fault for not reading the small print, but having the same connectors for different protocols is not a smart idea either.
It's very stupid that TB3 cables aren't required to support USB 3, but thankfully that should go away over time with USB 4.
It's very stupid that TB3 cables aren't required to support USB 3, but thankfully that should go away over time with USB 4.
Well what OP bought is not a TB3 cable at all, but it looks like it. It was a USB 2.0 cable with USB type C connector, which is a part of the spec. I agree it shouldn't be, and that USB Type C should have a minimum USB 3.0 standard, but USB 3.0 doesn't mean anything anymore anyway.
Oh, if they got a not-thunderbolt cable then that's a smaller problem.
You are never going to prevent the existence of charge-only or similar cables, since they're a lot cheaper than running four high speed data pairs.
Raising the minimum to 3.0 wouldn't fix the problem, just make it sting slightly less. And you can't require the best speed on everything because that's expensive and 'best' keeps increasing.
In my mind the real crime is that you can lay out a bunch of cables and they can't be sorted from slowest to fastest. There are weird broken gaps, like cables that support TB3 but only TB3. Also that the labeling is awful. There should be a clear max speed icon on every cable.
You are never going to prevent the existence of charge-only or similar cables, since they're a lot cheaper than running four high speed data pairs.
Raising the minimum to 3.0 wouldn't fix the problem, just make it sting slightly less. And you can't require the best speed on everything because that's expensive and 'best' keeps increasing.
In my mind the real crime is that you can lay out a bunch of cables and they can't be sorted from slowest to fastest. There are weird broken gaps, like cables that support TB3 but only TB3. Also that the labeling is awful. There should be a clear max speed icon on every cable.
I have the exact same issue with my Pixel 2, even after thoroughly cleaning the port it still hangs very loose and comes out easily. It has put me off USB-C, especially for mobile devices.
Personally, I have only ever had negative experiences with type C (touchbar MacBook pro, Nintendo Switch). Type C was one of the main reasons I sold my MBP and switched to Linux. It was just impossible to find peripherals / cables that worked reliably.
Aside from being a fragile and poorly designed physical connector, the state of protocols that can be run over it is a disaster. My grandmother definitely will not be able to troubleshoot why her devices don't work properly together when she uses a USB type C cable to connect Thunderbolt devices. I suspect this will be the same for many other users.
While having a ridiculous number of different connectors isn't great, I think it would have been reasonable to at least have different connectors for power, data, and video (even if they were all part of the same spec, and just keyed different to help end users figure out what to plug in where).
I would also have really liked to see a solid core connector. Apple Lightning is a good example of what that would look like -- there is no tiny wafer inside of the device-side port to crack, and both the port and connector are much more durable. Not that I think we should all use lightning, but it's an example of a reasonably well designed connector in my view.
Finally, I think the fact that so many vendors have failed to properly implement the spec is a sign that it's a bad spec. Raspberry Pi and Nintendo presumably have competent engineering departments. By and large, nobody had difficulty getting microUSB right.
Aside from being a fragile and poorly designed physical connector, the state of protocols that can be run over it is a disaster. My grandmother definitely will not be able to troubleshoot why her devices don't work properly together when she uses a USB type C cable to connect Thunderbolt devices. I suspect this will be the same for many other users.
While having a ridiculous number of different connectors isn't great, I think it would have been reasonable to at least have different connectors for power, data, and video (even if they were all part of the same spec, and just keyed different to help end users figure out what to plug in where).
I would also have really liked to see a solid core connector. Apple Lightning is a good example of what that would look like -- there is no tiny wafer inside of the device-side port to crack, and both the port and connector are much more durable. Not that I think we should all use lightning, but it's an example of a reasonably well designed connector in my view.
Finally, I think the fact that so many vendors have failed to properly implement the spec is a sign that it's a bad spec. Raspberry Pi and Nintendo presumably have competent engineering departments. By and large, nobody had difficulty getting microUSB right.
Did you actually manage to break that tiny wafer or it's more of a theoretical concern? I admit I had the same concern as you, but I'm not a mechanical engineer, and I'm sure a lot of thought was put in the mechanical design of the connector.
It seems to me that the outer metal sheet on the connector will prevent a "wrong" angle on the wafer.
Linus Tech Tips actually tested 10000 USB-C insertions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqtNleXhTRE
Spoiler: USB MicroB failed at 8000, USB-C was still working at 10000
It seems to me that the outer metal sheet on the connector will prevent a "wrong" angle on the wafer.
Linus Tech Tips actually tested 10000 USB-C insertions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqtNleXhTRE
Spoiler: USB MicroB failed at 8000, USB-C was still working at 10000
Not with type C. But I’ve seen friends break the very similar wafer in HDMI ports.
All it takes is for one fragment if debris to get wedged in the wrong way, and now that port on your expensive device is broken irreparably.
It may have that durability during normal use, but I doubt that these tests account for being shoved in backpacks or banged around in potentially dirty environments. Most people I know don’t use their laptops in sterile labs.
All it takes is for one fragment if debris to get wedged in the wrong way, and now that port on your expensive device is broken irreparably.
It may have that durability during normal use, but I doubt that these tests account for being shoved in backpacks or banged around in potentially dirty environments. Most people I know don’t use their laptops in sterile labs.
It's not at all irreparable.
There are very affordable (relative to the cost of a new laptop) online businesses specializing in this exact problem. But a skilled hobbyist (possibly with some advise from Youtube) or decent phone repair shop can do it too.
It's actually not that hard (put kapton tape around, remove old using hotair and tweezers, clean with flux and wick, solder new with iron or hotair, a compatible solder or paste, and lots of flux. Clean with spray/brush). Assuming you can source a replacement part, but between Digi-Key/Mouser, eBay and AliExpress that's rarely impossible.
There are very affordable (relative to the cost of a new laptop) online businesses specializing in this exact problem. But a skilled hobbyist (possibly with some advise from Youtube) or decent phone repair shop can do it too.
It's actually not that hard (put kapton tape around, remove old using hotair and tweezers, clean with flux and wick, solder new with iron or hotair, a compatible solder or paste, and lots of flux. Clean with spray/brush). Assuming you can source a replacement part, but between Digi-Key/Mouser, eBay and AliExpress that's rarely impossible.
If Apple Lightning ever does get replaced by USB-C, it will be a huge loss. I can't articulate all of the reasons why, but it is a delight to use compared to USB-C. Plugging in a Lightning cable is the only thing that feels half as good as plugging in a 1/4" TS cable. Solid and satisfying.
> Personally, I have only ever had negative experiences with type C (touchbar MacBook pro, Nintendo Switch)
Out of curiosity, what issues have you had with the charger/port of the Switch? I've had a Switch for a couple of years now, and the closest thing to an issue I've had with charging is that I can't use a less powerful charger (e.g. the one for me phone) effectively with it, but I basically knew that going in.
Out of curiosity, what issues have you had with the charger/port of the Switch? I've had a Switch for a couple of years now, and the closest thing to an issue I've had with charging is that I can't use a less powerful charger (e.g. the one for me phone) effectively with it, but I basically knew that going in.
AFAIK, it's highly discouraged to use any charger or dock other than the official Nintendo ones. Apparently Nintendo really bungled the USB-C charging protocol implementation and it's possible your switch will get fried if using 3rd party chargers or docks.
Strange, we have four switches in my family and I charge them on anything from phone chargers to 12v usb-c car chargers to 65 watts lenovo laptop chargers.
I guess if there is a possibility for that it is very low or I am very lucky.
I guess if there is a possibility for that it is very low or I am very lucky.
They finally figured out[1] why some docks would brick the Switch. The bad docks were implementing USB-PD in microcontroller and putting too much voltage on pin. Proper USB-PD adapters are fine; it is only a couple Switch-specific docks that were problematic.
1: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/heres-why-nintendo-sw...
1: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/heres-why-nintendo-sw...
Supposedly, though Nintendo's USB PD implementation in the Switch is a little jacked, as long as you use a charger that implements its PD support with an actual dedicated PD controller, you should be safe. The Nyko travel dock that infamously fried Switches faked it with a microcontroller which could sometimes overvolt one of the pins and fry the Switch's PD controller, rendering it unable to charge... at least according to this analysis by an engineer working on a third-party dock: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/ckaiiv/an_e...
My understanding is that third party chargers work fine though may not charge the Switch while under high load, but most third party docks don't implement PD correctly or at all and that is what can cause issues or bricking. There are also some issues with using A to C cables since USB A chargers will only provide 5V, so if the output amperage isn't high enough the Switch can't charge because it will only use a fraction of the available amps regardless of voltage.
[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/bjwpsy/nint...
[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/bjwpsy/nint...
Yet another anecdotal data point, but I've done the same with my Switch and MPB. I've charged both from a battery pack, phone chargers, etc. in a pinch and never had any issues (other than really really slow charging speeds).
I've just assumed those "warnings" are there for liability reasons because these companies didn't test their devices' charging capabilities across all possible USB charging devices.
I've just assumed those "warnings" are there for liability reasons because these companies didn't test their devices' charging capabilities across all possible USB charging devices.
I think most of the issues come from devices that trick the switch into operating in docked mode where it operates at a higher power state and can cause it to overdraw power from a charger. The switch doesn't abide by the standard usb-pd spec and if used with a charger that poorly implements the spec there is a chance it can request too much power.
I think the issues are more with poor quality chargers than the switch itself.
I think the issues are more with poor quality chargers than the switch itself.
There really isn't any problem with chargers. There were issues with some early USB-C cables, but that wasn't switch specific.
There have been problems with 3rd party doc which is partly Nintendo and partly 3rd parties.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/heres-why-nintendo-sw...
There have been problems with 3rd party doc which is partly Nintendo and partly 3rd parties.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/heres-why-nintendo-sw...
I can't help but wonder if these charging protocols are "bungled" at the executive level to preserve margins.
> letting you use a laptop to power your smartphone, for instance
What do they mean ? I remember charging my phone (or even a mp3 player) from my laptop using mini USB and later micro USB like 8 or 10 years ago.
What do they mean ? I remember charging my phone (or even a mp3 player) from my laptop using mini USB and later micro USB like 8 or 10 years ago.
Maybe they meant letting you use a laptop charger to power your phone?
that could turn out bad if any of the components is not to spec. like, idk, putting 28 V 1.3A into a phone that takes 5V 2.3A. Boom!
I thought USB automagically took care of that?
If implemented to spec, yes. If cheap and not, maybe not.
Yeah, that part doesn't really add up. Maybe they meant to say that the same port on a laptop can be used to put power in or take power out, but that's not really that big of a deal.
What's new is that you can now use a laptop charger to charge a phone.
What's new is that you can now use a laptop charger to charge a phone.
Well, considering the shitshow that is voltage on USB-C, I would never try to charge my phone with my laptop charger.
Maybe in a few years when USB-C is more mature, and manufacturer know how to place safeguards in devices so you can't fry it by plugging the wrong charger...
Maybe in a few years when USB-C is more mature, and manufacturer know how to place safeguards in devices so you can't fry it by plugging the wrong charger...
If you use a cheap non-compliant electrical thing it might go pop and all the magic smoke escapes. If you use a really cheap, really badly made thing it might catch fire or explode and hurt somebody.
This was true for USB micro B chargers, I've had one go pop maybe a desk width from my head one day. It was true for laptop chargers, which have caused their share of fires. So USB C is not new on this. If you use high quality products it'll probably be fine.
This was true for USB micro B chargers, I've had one go pop maybe a desk width from my head one day. It was true for laptop chargers, which have caused their share of fires. So USB C is not new on this. If you use high quality products it'll probably be fine.
I've charged my (Huawei) phone just fine with Apple and Lenovo USB type C chargers. In fact I could even (slowly) charge my Thinkpad with my phone's charger.
Would I do it with a no-name charger or cable or an older one? Hell no.
Would I do it with a no-name charger or cable or an older one? Hell no.
Is it? My understanding was that it supplied 5V (as per previous USB standards) until devices negotiated otherwise?
It does. I do this nightly. The iPhone has a fast-charge mode when used with a laptop charger, or their new fast charger, and it’s like 50%-in-30-minutes fast with either
Does anybody know why there are no USB-C hubs? With USB-A there are hubs that have four or eight USB-A outputs. But with USB-C I can’t find any hubs that have four USB-C outputs. Some have four USB-A but none have four USB-C output. Pretty strange and quite a loss of functionality.
Because, unlike USB-A hubs, it's not clear what should happen when you plug in a new device. This is mostly due to the existence of alternate modes.
For example, let's say you have a USB-C hub with 4 downstream ports and two USB devices plugged in. At least one of these is a 10Gbps USB 3.1 device. You plug in a USB-C -> HDMI adapter. Which of the following happens (and how does your grandmother diagnose the problem)?
1. Nothing. 2. The three existing devices detach from the bus and re-enumerate as USB 2.0 at 0.480 Gbps 3. The three existing devices continue to run as 3.0 devices, but only at 5 Gbps 4. The three existing devices continue to run as 3.0 devices at 10 Gbps
Explanation:
1. The hub does not support USB alt modes, so when an HDMI dongle is plugged in, the dongle is ignored.
2. The HDMI dongle is a passive alt mode device, requiring the use of all 4 high speed lanes. The other downstream devices are routed the internal USB 2.0 hub.
3. The HDMI dongle has an active Displayport -> HDMI converter inside, and uses only 2 of the high speed lanes, leaving the other 2 for USB 3.0 data. Since the other peripherals use the 2x 5Gbps USB 3.1 mode and only 1 lane is available in each direction, they revert to 5Gbps
4. Same as #3, except that the peripherals use the 1x 10Gbps USB 3.1 mode, so they continue to operate at 10Gbps with a single lane.
Ok, now 3 ports are occupied and you plug in a pair of USB-C headphones. What happens now?
1. Nothing 2. Your HDMI dongle stops working 3. Everything Just Works
Explanation
1. USB alt modes don't cover the case of a USB Audio Accessory and a Displayport accessory. Since you can't have both, your drivers ignore the new device
2. Same as #1, but your drivers prioritize the new device
3. Maybe your hub secretly has an audio codec inside, and is able to sync and source analog audio to any downstream port.
Bonus points: Ok, now what happens when you chain USB-C hubs? What happens when you try to plug in multiple HDMI adapters? Multiple audio accessories? When things don't work, is the problem the hub, the peripheral, or the drivers?
For example, let's say you have a USB-C hub with 4 downstream ports and two USB devices plugged in. At least one of these is a 10Gbps USB 3.1 device. You plug in a USB-C -> HDMI adapter. Which of the following happens (and how does your grandmother diagnose the problem)?
1. Nothing. 2. The three existing devices detach from the bus and re-enumerate as USB 2.0 at 0.480 Gbps 3. The three existing devices continue to run as 3.0 devices, but only at 5 Gbps 4. The three existing devices continue to run as 3.0 devices at 10 Gbps
Explanation:
1. The hub does not support USB alt modes, so when an HDMI dongle is plugged in, the dongle is ignored.
2. The HDMI dongle is a passive alt mode device, requiring the use of all 4 high speed lanes. The other downstream devices are routed the internal USB 2.0 hub.
3. The HDMI dongle has an active Displayport -> HDMI converter inside, and uses only 2 of the high speed lanes, leaving the other 2 for USB 3.0 data. Since the other peripherals use the 2x 5Gbps USB 3.1 mode and only 1 lane is available in each direction, they revert to 5Gbps
4. Same as #3, except that the peripherals use the 1x 10Gbps USB 3.1 mode, so they continue to operate at 10Gbps with a single lane.
Ok, now 3 ports are occupied and you plug in a pair of USB-C headphones. What happens now?
1. Nothing 2. Your HDMI dongle stops working 3. Everything Just Works
Explanation
1. USB alt modes don't cover the case of a USB Audio Accessory and a Displayport accessory. Since you can't have both, your drivers ignore the new device
2. Same as #1, but your drivers prioritize the new device
3. Maybe your hub secretly has an audio codec inside, and is able to sync and source analog audio to any downstream port.
Bonus points: Ok, now what happens when you chain USB-C hubs? What happens when you try to plug in multiple HDMI adapters? Multiple audio accessories? When things don't work, is the problem the hub, the peripheral, or the drivers?
From what I've read of the official specification, the correct answers are:
1. Plug the HDMI adapter: almost nothing. The HDMI adapter enumerates as an USB 2.0 "billboard device". The operating system can read the descriptor from this device and present a pop-up explaining "you have to plug HDMI adapters directly". This is because, as far as I know, USB hubs can't pass through alternate modes (except for the new USB4 alternate mode, but that is less of "pass through" and more "the hub is a USB4 device itself").
2. Plug the USB-C headphones: it depends on whether they are analog headphones using the "audio accessory" mode, or digital headphones presenting as an USB audio device. If they are digital headphones, it's the "everything just works" case; if they are analog headphones, it's the "nothing" case (unless there's something in the specification I missed where a hub can detect the "audio accessory" and warn the host, in which case you might get the pop-up explaining "analog headphones are not supported by this computer, even if you had plugged them directly").
Things change a bit with USB4. In the particular case where the HDMI dongle is an active DP to HDMI converter (which is probably the most common case, since from what I've seen computer support for the DP alternate mode is more common than the HDMI alternate mode, so most dongles will cater to that case), and the hub is an USB4 hub, it'll work as if it had been connected directly, since USB4 can tunnel Displayport (together with PCI Express and USB 3).
1. Plug the HDMI adapter: almost nothing. The HDMI adapter enumerates as an USB 2.0 "billboard device". The operating system can read the descriptor from this device and present a pop-up explaining "you have to plug HDMI adapters directly". This is because, as far as I know, USB hubs can't pass through alternate modes (except for the new USB4 alternate mode, but that is less of "pass through" and more "the hub is a USB4 device itself").
2. Plug the USB-C headphones: it depends on whether they are analog headphones using the "audio accessory" mode, or digital headphones presenting as an USB audio device. If they are digital headphones, it's the "everything just works" case; if they are analog headphones, it's the "nothing" case (unless there's something in the specification I missed where a hub can detect the "audio accessory" and warn the host, in which case you might get the pop-up explaining "analog headphones are not supported by this computer, even if you had plugged them directly").
Things change a bit with USB4. In the particular case where the HDMI dongle is an active DP to HDMI converter (which is probably the most common case, since from what I've seen computer support for the DP alternate mode is more common than the HDMI alternate mode, so most dongles will cater to that case), and the hub is an USB4 hub, it'll work as if it had been connected directly, since USB4 can tunnel Displayport (together with PCI Express and USB 3).
Since I can't edit my sibling post:
I wanted to address your point about the "correct" answer, because it's actually not so simple:
The billboard spec allows for a device to be both a DisplayPort 4-lane and a USB 2.0 device (This isn't theoretical--I have such a device in front of me. It's a passive DisplayPort + 2 port USB2.0 + microSD "hub").
The HDMI adapter I hypothesized in my second scenario is a passive HDMI adapter. You're correct that passive HDMI + USB2.0 is not possible, but substitute a passive DisplayPort for passive HDMI here and the idea is the same.
In the third scenario I am hypothesizing an active 2-lane DisplayPort to HDMI adapter (These are also not theoretical--this is how the Apple "HDMI Multiport Adapter" works).
The hub I hypothesized for scenarios 2 through 4 (which does not exist) is one that would be smart enough to do the following:
1. Recognize the video dongle's billboard
2. Send the host a "fake" billboard for "DisplayPort 2 lane + USB 3.0" or "DisplayPort 4 lane + USB 2.0" (as appropriate)
3. Re-configure the downstream USB-C as USB 3.0 or 2.0-only ports (again as appropriate)
4. Route DP to the dongle (perhaps via an internal DP -> HDMI converter, if the hub has one), Route USB 2.0 or 3.0 to the internal hub, and route the hub to the downstream USB-C ports.
I don't recall if rewriting the billboard is allowed per the USB spec (I think it isn't). But you can see how it would be possible for a hub to support alt-mode routing, even if the spec doesn't formally define it.
I wanted to address your point about the "correct" answer, because it's actually not so simple:
The billboard spec allows for a device to be both a DisplayPort 4-lane and a USB 2.0 device (This isn't theoretical--I have such a device in front of me. It's a passive DisplayPort + 2 port USB2.0 + microSD "hub").
The HDMI adapter I hypothesized in my second scenario is a passive HDMI adapter. You're correct that passive HDMI + USB2.0 is not possible, but substitute a passive DisplayPort for passive HDMI here and the idea is the same.
In the third scenario I am hypothesizing an active 2-lane DisplayPort to HDMI adapter (These are also not theoretical--this is how the Apple "HDMI Multiport Adapter" works).
The hub I hypothesized for scenarios 2 through 4 (which does not exist) is one that would be smart enough to do the following:
1. Recognize the video dongle's billboard
2. Send the host a "fake" billboard for "DisplayPort 2 lane + USB 3.0" or "DisplayPort 4 lane + USB 2.0" (as appropriate)
3. Re-configure the downstream USB-C as USB 3.0 or 2.0-only ports (again as appropriate)
4. Route DP to the dongle (perhaps via an internal DP -> HDMI converter, if the hub has one), Route USB 2.0 or 3.0 to the internal hub, and route the hub to the downstream USB-C ports.
I don't recall if rewriting the billboard is allowed per the USB spec (I think it isn't). But you can see how it would be possible for a hub to support alt-mode routing, even if the spec doesn't formally define it.
You seem to be confusing the billboard device with the alternate mode negotiation. The billboard device is a normal USB device which shows up once the alternate mode negotiation times out. The alternate mode negotiation happens on the configuration pins over the USB-PD protocol.
The alternate mode discovery is initiated by the host, so the only way the hub could change which alternate modes it supports would be to disconnect from the host (unplugging all the devices on it, which would be particularly bad if some of them were storage devices).
(Also, I believe HDMI alternate mode with USB 2.0 is possible. The only alternate mode I know of which changes the meaning of the USB 2.0 pins is VirtualLink, which uses them for USB 3.x instead.)
The alternate mode discovery is initiated by the host, so the only way the hub could change which alternate modes it supports would be to disconnect from the host (unplugging all the devices on it, which would be particularly bad if some of them were storage devices).
(Also, I believe HDMI alternate mode with USB 2.0 is possible. The only alternate mode I know of which changes the meaning of the USB 2.0 pins is VirtualLink, which uses them for USB 3.x instead.)
Exactly, and this is why there are no USB-C hubs.
Users (even technical users on Hacker News) keep asking for a "USB-C hub". What do you think they mean by that? "I want to plug in all my USB-C crap" or "I want to plug in all my USB-C crap, except video dongles and some[1] audio dongles"
All the use cases for an everything-except-alt-mode USB-C hub are already met by existing USB-A hubs[2].
[1] "And please don't give me an easy way to tell which headphone dongles will work ahead of time. The surprise and anticipation of seeing whether it works makes every plug-in event feel like my birthday."
[2] Okay, okay, you do need USB-C connectors for 20 Gbps USB bandwidth. But I've never actually seen a 20 Gbps USB host, device, or hub in the wild.
Users (even technical users on Hacker News) keep asking for a "USB-C hub". What do you think they mean by that? "I want to plug in all my USB-C crap" or "I want to plug in all my USB-C crap, except video dongles and some[1] audio dongles"
All the use cases for an everything-except-alt-mode USB-C hub are already met by existing USB-A hubs[2].
[1] "And please don't give me an easy way to tell which headphone dongles will work ahead of time. The surprise and anticipation of seeing whether it works makes every plug-in event feel like my birthday."
[2] Okay, okay, you do need USB-C connectors for 20 Gbps USB bandwidth. But I've never actually seen a 20 Gbps USB host, device, or hub in the wild.
Thanks! This seems a major shortcoming with USB-C if you want to build docking stations. And it will get worse once everything uses USB-C. I have already converted my USB drives back to USB-A so I can use them with one hub that’s plugged into my laptop.
Guesses:
1) not that many people have four USB-C devices they need to plug in at once (unlike USB-A),
2) it'd probably be super expensive and in some cases impossible to support all the abilities of USB-C across 4 ports, leaving only some small subset of capabilities available on all four and maybe forcing you to not use some of the ports at all if one or two of them have higher-end capabilities and you're actually using them for that. Experience is probably confusing and frustrating at best—and expensive anyway.
1) not that many people have four USB-C devices they need to plug in at once (unlike USB-A),
2) it'd probably be super expensive and in some cases impossible to support all the abilities of USB-C across 4 ports, leaving only some small subset of capabilities available on all four and maybe forcing you to not use some of the ports at all if one or two of them have higher-end capabilities and you're actually using them for that. Experience is probably confusing and frustrating at best—and expensive anyway.
Apple sold them for a certain period, made by Belkin.
https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Linksys-B2B153-04-BLK-4-Port-D...
https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Linksys-B2B153-04-BLK-4-Port-D...
Technically, yes.
But I would point out that the linked device has 1 USB-C Power Delivery pass-through, 1 USB-C data port, and 2 USB-A ports.
Nobody has yet shipped a USB hub with more than 1 USB-C downstream data port.
But I would point out that the linked device has 1 USB-C Power Delivery pass-through, 1 USB-C data port, and 2 USB-A ports.
Nobody has yet shipped a USB hub with more than 1 USB-C downstream data port.
I linked the wrong one. I'm very sure that with the introduction of the (USB-C only) MacBook Pro, they sold a hub with an upstream USB-C port, and four downstream USB-C ports. After some time, it wasn't available anymore.
It was bus-powered, so I'm pretty sure it was simply a bunch of USB-C ports that offered no more than USB 3.0 and that didn't support USB-PD.
Can't seem to find it anymore.
It was bus-powered, so I'm pretty sure it was simply a bunch of USB-C ports that offered no more than USB 3.0 and that didn't support USB-PD.
Can't seem to find it anymore.
I've seen statements (that I can't verify) that chip support doesn't exist yet for additional usb-c ports.
I guess negotiating the bandwidth and power delivery would be pretty complex
I guess negotiating the bandwidth and power delivery would be pretty complex
Found one! Not sure of which countries this brand is sold, though.
https://www.sitecom.com/en/usb-c-hub-4-port/cn-386/p/1881
https://www.sitecom.com/en/usb-c-hub-4-port/cn-386/p/1881
Supporting the alternate modes, Thunderbolt 3, power delivery, etc with a hub isn't trivial. Thunderbolt requires a PCI bridge for starters.
It is highly likely any such hub would be a USB-3.x hub only but wouldn't support power pass-through properly, you wouldn't be able to connect your monitor to it, etc.
It is highly likely any such hub would be a USB-3.x hub only but wouldn't support power pass-through properly, you wouldn't be able to connect your monitor to it, etc.
Maybe there is no market for them yet?
Besides phones and laptops there are not many USB-C devices out there yet. And you don't connect phones and laptops to hubs (as a guest, not a host).
Besides phones and laptops there are not many USB-C devices out there yet. And you don't connect phones and laptops to hubs (as a guest, not a host).
Sony's pretty popular BT headphones, WH1000XM3, switched to USB-C about a year ago. I've noticed a bunch of external hard drives have, too. I picked up a micro-b to USB-C cable so I wouldn't need an adapter. Nintendo Switch was released in early 2017. It's difficult to even find chargers with more than 1 USB-C port.
Apple has been shipping laptops with only USB-C since 2015. Many people rely heavily on dongles and breakout boxes. A USB-C hub would be welcome even at a steep premium.
My guess is that all of the tech that tunnels through USB-C would be really difficult to hub or to share. Which is why the closest thing I've seen to a hub is a passthrough plus a USB-C for power.
Apple has been shipping laptops with only USB-C since 2015. Many people rely heavily on dongles and breakout boxes. A USB-C hub would be welcome even at a steep premium.
My guess is that all of the tech that tunnels through USB-C would be really difficult to hub or to share. Which is why the closest thing I've seen to a hub is a passthrough plus a USB-C for power.
> Maybe there is no market for them yet?
Then I guess the title "USB-C Has Finally Come into Its Own" is a lie.
Then I guess the title "USB-C Has Finally Come into Its Own" is a lie.
I'm glad things are working great for the author, but for me USB-C is still a dumpster fire. When locked and plugged into its USB-C docking station, my MacBook Pro kernel panics multiple times per day. Since my current workplace has very strict rules about never leaving unattended computers unlocked, every trip to the bathroom is a 1-in-4 chance I'll have to watch my Mac reboot when I get back, unless I want to unplug it and lose all my window positions.
It's mind-boggling how the entire industry fucked this up so badly.
It's mind-boggling how the entire industry fucked this up so badly.
There's something wrong with either your docking station or your laptop. Since december 2016, I've been docking a MacBook Pro and I've never had a kernel panic.
Unfortunately no: I've replaced both the laptop and the docking station, and the problem still occurs with a brand-new one of each. Something about macOS doesn't like this model of docking station.
I wonder what that dock does. Would be hugely interesting to see what it sends over the line. But now that I think of it, macOS shouldn't crash. Can you say which dock it is?
It appears to be this one: https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/hp-thunderbolt-dock-120w-g2, or another model with the same design.
USB and displays have been hot-pluggable for decades. If there's a kernel panic then it's Apple's fault, not an entire industry.
I couldn’t get my 4k monitors (both LG, one 24” and one 27”) to work consistently until my company sprang for Apple’s $39 Thunderbolt 3 USB-C cables. Even Belkin’s are $29, but I swear don’t work as well. Some standard where you need a $40 cable to make it work right.
The cable that came with my Dell U3219Q has worked well for nearly a year. The monitor provides 90W of power to charge the MacBook Pro, so it effectively functions as a docking station with a single cable.
Part of the problem here is that you shouldn't actually need a 'docking station', just a USB-C hub with a bunch of full-feature USB-C ports on it (they can do practically anything, after all), but nobody's bothered to make one.
I remember getting the Samsung S8 when it first came out. I left my charger at home and was at a conference all day. I called every computer store around and nobody had a cable.
I would say USB-C has come into its own when every corner store or uber car has a usb-c charging cable standard.
I would say USB-C has come into its own when every corner store or uber car has a usb-c charging cable standard.
Anyone with a new-ish Apple laptop would've been able to help. I think the MBPs started using USB-C for charging in 2016.
anyone with a new iphone would not be able to help. when will Apple get serious about using usb-c universally?
They'd at least be able to help with a wall wart...
Apple is in a tricky place because there are so many accessories in the world that work with Lightning. Customers would be pissed if they had to use dongles for all of that stuff they already own.
The 30 Pin connector existed for 9 years before Lightning came out in 2012, so we still probably have a few years before they consider abandoning it.
I imagine by then, USB-C will actually be the universal solution that everyone wants.
Part of me is actually expecting Apple to abandon cables altogether and just provide wireless charging/syncing.
Apple is in a tricky place because there are so many accessories in the world that work with Lightning. Customers would be pissed if they had to use dongles for all of that stuff they already own.
The 30 Pin connector existed for 9 years before Lightning came out in 2012, so we still probably have a few years before they consider abandoning it.
I imagine by then, USB-C will actually be the universal solution that everyone wants.
Part of me is actually expecting Apple to abandon cables altogether and just provide wireless charging/syncing.
> Customers would be pissed if they had to use dongles for all of that stuff they already own.
Eh, they were brave enough to do it for the 3.5mm jack, I don't see why they couldn't do it here. So I think the real reason is they want to continue to sell $40 lightening cables, or whatever they cost now.
Eh, they were brave enough to do it for the 3.5mm jack, I don't see why they couldn't do it here. So I think the real reason is they want to continue to sell $40 lightening cables, or whatever they cost now.
Or, as the article points out...
> In Apple’s case, the hesitation at least makes some sense. As long as USB-C compatibility is more tangled than a late-stage game of Twister, it will remain anathema to Cupertino’s mantra of “it just works.” USB-C can still feel more like "it works, just not always how you were expecting." Apple already achieved USB-C’s space-saving and reversibility benefits seven years ago with the introduction of its Lightning cable. And in those seven years, an expansive ecosystem of Lightning peripherals has emerged, all of which would head straight for the scrap heap with a jump to USB-C.
> In Apple’s case, the hesitation at least makes some sense. As long as USB-C compatibility is more tangled than a late-stage game of Twister, it will remain anathema to Cupertino’s mantra of “it just works.” USB-C can still feel more like "it works, just not always how you were expecting." Apple already achieved USB-C’s space-saving and reversibility benefits seven years ago with the introduction of its Lightning cable. And in those seven years, an expansive ecosystem of Lightning peripherals has emerged, all of which would head straight for the scrap heap with a jump to USB-C.
If they had jumped straight to USB-C on their phones it never would have been tangled. Exact data speeds don't matter for a phone, they could have avoided any headphone adapter confusion, and the issue of charging-only cables exists no matter what, on lightning too.
And adding an adapter onto lightning plugs is less invasive than the issues with removing the headphone jack.
Edit: So would anyone like to explain how any of that is such a bad contribution it deserves a downvote? I'm always surprised when a comment gets silently downvoted, it's never something where I expected any downvotes...
And adding an adapter onto lightning plugs is less invasive than the issues with removing the headphone jack.
Edit: So would anyone like to explain how any of that is such a bad contribution it deserves a downvote? I'm always surprised when a comment gets silently downvoted, it's never something where I expected any downvotes...
Lightning came out several years before USB-C. So I don’t think going straight to USB-C was really an option.
(not suggesting that’s why you were downvoted, just clarifying the timeline of the ports)
(not suggesting that’s why you were downvoted, just clarifying the timeline of the ports)
Two years, to be precise.
Lightning devices were shipping end of 2012.
USB-C design was finalised end of 2014.
Lightning devices were shipping end of 2012.
USB-C design was finalised end of 2014.
And it was announced in 2013, with Apple part of the group helping design it. I'm sure they could have shipped it in 2014 if they had really wanted to. Other devices were shipping only a couple months later.
Maybe the development started too late for Apple to involve it in their plans? But that would have been a really rapid pace. Overall it looks a lot like this was Apple fussiness.
Maybe the development started too late for Apple to involve it in their plans? But that would have been a really rapid pace. Overall it looks a lot like this was Apple fussiness.
> Part of me is actually expecting Apple to abandon cables altogether and just provide wireless charging/syncing
Apple was probably planning on that as well, but the AirPower fiasco has probably set that plan back quite a few years.
Apple was probably planning on that as well, but the AirPower fiasco has probably set that plan back quite a few years.
> Apple is in a tricky place because there are so many accessories in the world that work with Lightning. Customers would be pissed if they had to use dongles for all of that stuff they already own.
To be fair that didn't stop them dropping the legacy iPod dock connector for Lightning in the first place.
To be fair that didn't stop them dropping the legacy iPod dock connector for Lightning in the first place.
Well they dug that grave themselves. They knew USB C was coming. They could have had some of the first devices with USB C.
How did they know USB-C was coming? Didn’t lightning debut something like 4 years before USB-C? And one would assume they had been engineering lightning for at least a year or more before that.
The new iPhones come with a USB-C wall wart and a USB-C-to-lightning cable.
[deleted]
aren't there high and low power cables?
USB-C is a terribly designed connector. Both devices I have that use it disconnect when you just slightly graze the cable connected to USB-C. That includes a Nokia 7 plus phone and a HP elitebook. And this started after less than a year of use for both devices. I never had this problem with previous connectors and I wish I never spent any money on devices with such flimsy connectors.
I had a similar issue with my Pixel Phone's USB-C socket. The Apple's USB-C cable would fall out on its own after a while! Turns out, there was so much lint from clothing trapped at the end of the socket that the cable couldn't latch properly. Took a toothpick and got the dirt out. The cable now clicks in quite pleasurably and stays there firmly. Thought I'd mention in case others are wondering.
A bit tangential, I have been pretty content with Apple's relative stability on their proprietary connectors on their mobile devices.
Just look at the mess of variants for USB: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware
While I've only had to deal with 2.5-3* transitions for my Apple devices so far.
* Apple of course did cause their own mess transitioning away from Firewire while keeping the 30-pin connector:
- 30-pin Firewire data + charge
- 30-pin Firewire charging only
- 30-pin USB, no firewire charging (Remember all those Bose dock/car 30-pin adapters).
- Lightning port transition.
In this case, Apple's proprietary ports ended up feeling a lot more universal.
Just look at the mess of variants for USB: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware
While I've only had to deal with 2.5-3* transitions for my Apple devices so far.
* Apple of course did cause their own mess transitioning away from Firewire while keeping the 30-pin connector:
- 30-pin Firewire data + charge
- 30-pin Firewire charging only
- 30-pin USB, no firewire charging (Remember all those Bose dock/car 30-pin adapters).
- Lightning port transition.
In this case, Apple's proprietary ports ended up feeling a lot more universal.
In addition, adapters were available for all those steps: 12V to 5V charging, and the 30 pin to Lightning adapter. And on the software side, even the ancient iAP accessories are still working. I’ve seen 2007 car kits hooked up to an iPhone 6 through those 2 adapters and behaving just as you’d expect.
A soft way for Apple would be offering iPhones with two different connectors - Lightning for luddites and USB-C for rest.
However they’re more likely to come up with one with no cables at all...
However they’re more likely to come up with one with no cables at all...
If USB-C has finally come into its own, why is it still impossible to find a dual USB-C power adapter or battery? Still have to use hacky USB-C to USB-A cables connected to a low-amp USB-A port for all but one device. USB-C will have come into its own when I can travel without any extra cables or adapters to work with the older standard.
Anker[0] has a dual usb-c power adapter. Comes in handy while traveling.
[0] : https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerport-atom-pd-2/A...
[0] : https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerport-atom-pd-2/A...
Cool. I have the single-port Atom and love it. Nice to see these are finally appearing on the market.
Chargers are finally coming: here's one that does 48w from one usb-c port or 30w+18w from 2 ports (plus 2 usb-a), plenty for a non-gaming laptop and phone: https://www.amazon.com/Universal-International-Worldwide-Mul.... I have one and it works fine.
Only battery pack with 2 usb-c seems to be the ZMI Ambi: https://www.amazon.com/ZMI-PowerPack-Ambi-USB-C-Power/dp/B07....
Only battery pack with 2 usb-c seems to be the ZMI Ambi: https://www.amazon.com/ZMI-PowerPack-Ambi-USB-C-Power/dp/B07....
I recommend the dual-port 60W Anker: https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerport-atom-pd-2/A...
It'll do 60W from one (laptop), or 2x30W and is fairly compact. So I amusingly now have lightning to USB (damn you Apple), and also bring a single USB-A to USB-C adapter sometimes (e.g., for a Fitbit charging cable).
It'll do 60W from one (laptop), or 2x30W and is fairly compact. So I amusingly now have lightning to USB (damn you Apple), and also bring a single USB-A to USB-C adapter sometimes (e.g., for a Fitbit charging cable).
My wife, last week, a couple days after she gets a new Macbook Air to replace her old one that stopped working:
"Wait... there are no USB ports on this thing? How the fuck am I supposed to plug anything in?! My flash drives, my camera, my microphone... anything? Seriously?"
Welcome to dongle life :-(
2019, still don't have a single thing in our house to plug into a USB-C port, except adapters. Probably reach the end of 2020 in a similar state. Just bought a new 4TB portable HD that's USB-A (3.0), because USB-C wouldn't be able to plug into anything but a new Macbook, without an adapter.
"Wait... there are no USB ports on this thing? How the fuck am I supposed to plug anything in?! My flash drives, my camera, my microphone... anything? Seriously?"
Welcome to dongle life :-(
2019, still don't have a single thing in our house to plug into a USB-C port, except adapters. Probably reach the end of 2020 in a similar state. Just bought a new 4TB portable HD that's USB-A (3.0), because USB-C wouldn't be able to plug into anything but a new Macbook, without an adapter.
I don't know about you, but my flash drives, camera, and microphone are all usb-c. It sounds like you have either not upgraded your devices in a while, or bought devices with out-of-date connectors. It's pretty easy to avoid out-of-date non- usb-c accessories these days.
I don't think I've ever seen a USB C flashdrive in my life
USB-A is only out of date for Apple, and if the actual connection is USB 2 or 3 (not, say, thunderbolt) there’s little reason to choose USB-C. Desktop? USB-A only. Raspberries Pi? USB-A. Older MacBook Pro? A. Every console for the last couple generations, except sort-of the Switch? A. They should have had a couple years of a transition model rather than going all-A to all-C at once.
I've always felt that manufacturers got the USB-C dongle very wrong.
Instead of converting USB-C to DP/USB-A/HDMI, the dongle should be converting DP/USB-A/HDMI to USB-C.
It's about upgrading the older perpherials instead of downgrading the new devices.
For example, the dongle is instead fixed to my DVI port on my monitor. Now my monitor has a USB-C socket, instead of my laptop or phone having a DVI socket.
It reduces bulk and now I truly only have to use USB-C cables everywhere. If someone knows where to find dongles like this I'd be very excited.
Instead of converting USB-C to DP/USB-A/HDMI, the dongle should be converting DP/USB-A/HDMI to USB-C.
It's about upgrading the older perpherials instead of downgrading the new devices.
For example, the dongle is instead fixed to my DVI port on my monitor. Now my monitor has a USB-C socket, instead of my laptop or phone having a DVI socket.
It reduces bulk and now I truly only have to use USB-C cables everywhere. If someone knows where to find dongles like this I'd be very excited.
For USB-A, that's explicitly not allowed. From the standard:
USB Type-C receptacle to USB legacy adapters are explicitly not defined or allowed. Such
adapters would allow many invalid and potentially unsafe cable connections to be
constructed by users.
I've heard that Apple engineers helped with the USB-C spec based on their experiences with Lightning.
Why did they opt for a connector with a tongue that could break on the device?
The Lightning connector seems to be superior because it does not have a piece that could not only break, but is a real PITA to fix.
Why did they opt for a connector with a tongue that could break on the device?
The Lightning connector seems to be superior because it does not have a piece that could not only break, but is a real PITA to fix.
What's your failure rate? I haven't had a USB C cable break like that, not even the cheap ones.
Because those breakages are rare enough in the real world for it to be worth the choice.
Tried to charge my Macbook Pro with a colleagues charger recently. After an hour I unplugged it only to find it hadn't actually been charging.
Turns out the Macbook chargers although looking almost identical to the Macbook Pro chargers can only provide enough power to run the Macbook Pro but not enough power to run and charge it.
Not sure how non-technical people are ever supposed to realize or understand any of this.
Turns out the Macbook chargers although looking almost identical to the Macbook Pro chargers can only provide enough power to run the Macbook Pro but not enough power to run and charge it.
Not sure how non-technical people are ever supposed to realize or understand any of this.
This isn't specific to USB-C. The older MagSafe adapters (and likely the ones before them) came in different wattage for different computers. The smaller wattage adapters are physically smaller and lighter -- often important for someone who intentionally purchased a lightweight computer.
"a reputable vendor like Amazon"
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Huge supporter of USB-C, but the premise is a joke. Dual chargers are only just starting to trickle out! Few laptops have >2 ports. How many people even in the tech realm have any idea what USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 means? (dual 10Gbit connection)
The cost of implementation is really high & relies on way too many chips to achieve anything. Few SoC have USB-C built in.
It's gonna take a decade before this becomes at all regular. It'll be in products, but it's still exotic to work with, & only doable along very narrow paths. That's the pace we're running at.
The cost of implementation is really high & relies on way too many chips to achieve anything. Few SoC have USB-C built in.
It's gonna take a decade before this becomes at all regular. It'll be in products, but it's still exotic to work with, & only doable along very narrow paths. That's the pace we're running at.
I've got an HP Spectre laptop, and Moto X4. Both have USB-C. Both came with their own power supplies. I'm scared to try the HP brick cable to see if it'll charge, or blow up my phone. I doubt the Moto charger would even register on the laptop but maybe it'd trickle charge it? I have no idea or confidence in how mixing these things would work.
But otherwise I prefer USB-C to all previous alternatives so far.
But otherwise I prefer USB-C to all previous alternatives so far.
For all the bitching and moaning about USB-C in Apple MacBooks, the move looks prescient in retrospect.
I don't think anyone was arguing that it wasn't. USB-C is and was obviously the future and a far superior standard. But not having even one USB-A port is still ocasionally a pain today, and definitely would have been four years ago.
mini USB: octobrer 2000 to january 2007 (6 years, 3 months)
micro USB: january 2007 to august 2014 (7 years, 7 months)
USB-C: august 2014 - ? (5+ years)
I hope we keep increasing the lifespan of the "suggested" mobile-device USB form factor, to increase convenience and (slightly) reduce environmental impact.
micro USB: january 2007 to august 2014 (7 years, 7 months)
USB-C: august 2014 - ? (5+ years)
I hope we keep increasing the lifespan of the "suggested" mobile-device USB form factor, to increase convenience and (slightly) reduce environmental impact.
It's very likely we'll hit a point where the connector (Type-C) doesn't change, but the cable standards do. Just like how USB Type-A has been very stable, or HDMI, DisplayPort and mini-DP. That said, I don't see USB Micro-B disappearing anytime soon. And everything USB power delivery is an improvement over how we used to do power via randomly-sized DC connectors. I remember spending quite awhile looking for alternative power adapters for my PSP-1000 which did have its own micro USB port. Don't get me started on proprietary cellphone power adapters... or the various 30-pin connectors ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_connector
At least Type-C is permanently reversible, where MicroUSB is just destructively reversible.
At least when you had a micro USB or mini USB cable, you knew it would be compatible with everything of the same form factor.
USB-C's form factor might stick around longer, but its compatibility problems are going to be much worse.
USB-C's form factor might stick around longer, but its compatibility problems are going to be much worse.
Not to mention that software may disable your hardware's USB ports if it thinks they're dirty - a feature in Android 10, if I read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20868164 right
Dock Connector: April 2003 to September 2012 (9 years, 5 months)
Lightning Connector: September 2012 - ???? (7+ years)
Lightning Connector: September 2012 - ???? (7+ years)
USB-C isn't just USB. It's USB plus a whole bunch of other optional features, from higher power to DisplayPort video to a JTAG back door. It's a collection of features jammed into a really tiny connector. Of course it's not very compatible.
Does anyone make a multiple USB-C charger? My Pixel, my MiFi, and MBA are all USB-C. I can get USB-C to Lightning Cables for my iPhone and Airpods but I can't find a power block that has more than a single USB-C socket. All of Anker's are 4 USB-A and 1 USB-C
https://www.anker.com/ca/products/108/216/desktop-chargers
Checking on Amazon I see at most 2 USB-C (with nothing else so not useful)
https://www.anker.com/ca/products/108/216/desktop-chargers
Checking on Amazon I see at most 2 USB-C (with nothing else so not useful)
https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerport-atom-pd-2/A...
This one has 2 USB-C
https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerport-atom-pd-4/A...
This has 2 USB-C and 2 USB-A. Apparently it’s out of stock on amazon right now though...
This one has 2 USB-C
https://www.anker.com/products/variant/powerport-atom-pd-4/A...
This has 2 USB-C and 2 USB-A. Apparently it’s out of stock on amazon right now though...
I listed 3 devices so 2 is not a solution. And I've had 4 before and expect them to go up so would prefer to get a 5 port USB-C power supply now if such a thing existed.
Next to my bed I have a 5 port USB-A charger w/ 3x high power throughout USB-A->USB-C cables + 1x USB-A->Lightning + 1x USB-A->Micro. More than sufficient for all my devices. Doesn't need to be USB-C->USB-C and way cheaper.
One of the USB-C cords powers the fan beside my bed!
One of the USB-C cords powers the fan beside my bed!
The entire point of claiming USB-C has come into it's own would mean I don't need a bunch of non USB-C cables and adaptors.
As it is I have a USB-C to USB-C cable for my Macbook for it's power supply, another for my Mifi, another for my Pixel. But I have no power supply that can charge all 3 so instead I have to have 2 cables for every device. One when use it on it's own. Another for each when using a single charger. If I hadn't sold my late 2018 iPad I'd have 4 USB-C devices needing 8 cables.
That's not "Come into it's own" that's "Still in frustrating transition from USB-A era"
I could list a bunch of other cables and adaptors I need because USB-C is not yet "come into it's own".
As it is I have a USB-C to USB-C cable for my Macbook for it's power supply, another for my Mifi, another for my Pixel. But I have no power supply that can charge all 3 so instead I have to have 2 cables for every device. One when use it on it's own. Another for each when using a single charger. If I hadn't sold my late 2018 iPad I'd have 4 USB-C devices needing 8 cables.
That's not "Come into it's own" that's "Still in frustrating transition from USB-A era"
I could list a bunch of other cables and adaptors I need because USB-C is not yet "come into it's own".
The cables/protocols situation is pretty silly, but even despite that I got on the USB-C train as soon as I could, dongles and new cables and all. The connector is that much better, and yes, if you can arrange a one-cable-to-rule-them-all laptop docking situation it's glorious. I'll take the upheaval for that.
USB-C will actually be here when Logitech releases a mouse/keyboard dongle for it.
The ports are too fragile and the different cable standards are incomprehensible. I was quite pleased when I heard about USB C but it started badly with the dodgy cables and had just got worse.
I’m hoping Apple stick with lightning.
I’m hoping Apple stick with lightning.
USB-C can supply up to 100 watts of power at 20v and up to 5A current. At the moment, you can easily get your hands on 87 watt Apple charger which is a high quality and compact [1]. That's a huge amount of power. To put this into perspective, here are a few unsuspecting items that can be easily powered by Apple's charger (stuff around my apartment):
* A fairly capable soldering iron [2]
* Studio grade lighting [3]
* Prusa i3 3D printer [4]
* Emblaser Core Laser Cutter
Each of these devices come with their own power supply unit, most of which are bricks at least twice the size of the Apple's charger, while most likely of lower output signal quality (e.g. higher ripple). It'd be great if all that waste could be replaces with a USB-C port!
That's why I'm currently working on a PCB kit which can be programmed to require a certain voltage/current from an upstream USB-C power supply [7]. It can then be used as adapter for (or embedded inside) devices that don't have USB-C power input. I'm hoping to sell the kit in the future. I'll be getting rid of my power bricks one by one while making them more portable with things like high power car chargers [6].
I'm also working on an upstream USB-C power supply (as a kit) [8] that can take any input from 10-35v and provide up to 100 watt output (which is currently rare).
[1]: http://k.sina.com.cn/article_1677177940_63f7b454001003fpl.ht...
[2]: https://www.weller-tools.com/we1010na/
[3]: https://www.amazon.com.au/Godox-SL-60W-Temperature-Continous...
[4]: https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/180-original-prusa-i...
[5]: https://darklylabs.com/emblaser_core/
[6]: https://satechi.net/products/72w-type-c-pd-car-charger-adapt...
[7]: https://imgur.com/a/GIia7Fo
[8]: https://imgur.com/a/ejbPBIT
* A fairly capable soldering iron [2]
* Studio grade lighting [3]
* Prusa i3 3D printer [4]
* Emblaser Core Laser Cutter
Each of these devices come with their own power supply unit, most of which are bricks at least twice the size of the Apple's charger, while most likely of lower output signal quality (e.g. higher ripple). It'd be great if all that waste could be replaces with a USB-C port!
That's why I'm currently working on a PCB kit which can be programmed to require a certain voltage/current from an upstream USB-C power supply [7]. It can then be used as adapter for (or embedded inside) devices that don't have USB-C power input. I'm hoping to sell the kit in the future. I'll be getting rid of my power bricks one by one while making them more portable with things like high power car chargers [6].
I'm also working on an upstream USB-C power supply (as a kit) [8] that can take any input from 10-35v and provide up to 100 watt output (which is currently rare).
[1]: http://k.sina.com.cn/article_1677177940_63f7b454001003fpl.ht...
[2]: https://www.weller-tools.com/we1010na/
[3]: https://www.amazon.com.au/Godox-SL-60W-Temperature-Continous...
[4]: https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/180-original-prusa-i...
[5]: https://darklylabs.com/emblaser_core/
[6]: https://satechi.net/products/72w-type-c-pd-car-charger-adapt...
[7]: https://imgur.com/a/GIia7Fo
[8]: https://imgur.com/a/ejbPBIT
Apple's charger is nice but it also costs a pretty penny. Are you sure you couldn't get a nicer custom-built power supply if you wanted to spend that much money?
There definitely could be one out there, but given the size of the Apple charger, power output performance, build quality and ubiquity, I think it'll be hard to find an alternative that costs less. A lot of expensive components goes into making this charger. I can tell you from my experience of trying to build a similar supply, that's not even an AC-DC circuit, that the components alone cost $30 USD. Even at Apple's production scale, it'll most likely still cost ~$20. That's 25% of the retail price. I'm constantly amazed on how they manage to make them so cheap!
But all the attributes I mentioned could be irrelevant to many. If you carry a 30 liter bag around, double the size of charger won't make a difference. If you're powering lights, output ripple doesn't matter much and so on.
But all the attributes I mentioned could be irrelevant to many. If you carry a 30 liter bag around, double the size of charger won't make a difference. If you're powering lights, output ripple doesn't matter much and so on.
I've always felt like
Time to change the connector again, I guess.