Framework Raises $18M Series A(frame.work)
frame.work
Framework Raises $18M Series A
https://frame.work/blog/frameworks-series-a-and-the-years-ahead
206 comments
Got a DIY one last week with pop_os setup and it's an amazing laptop to have for a reasonable price. Having used a Pixelbook for awhile, it's hard to ever go back from using a 3:2 screen, but that's exactly what you get with Framework (obviously w/ much better specs than a Pixelbook & a full Linux install).
How is pop on the framework? Any graphics woes?
Been using PopOS on my DIY version since last July. The battery life isn't what I hoped for (I haven't done exhaustive testing), but otherwise I've had a great experience.
I might be doing something wrong, but using integer scaling at 2x results in a UI that's a bit too big for my tastes, but if I use 1x I feel it's too small, so fractional scaling seems to be necessary for me to get the right balance. It drives an external monitor at 1920x1080, and was just looking at buying another HDMI adapter, but I haven't yet been able to determine whether or not it's capable of driving two 1920x1080 displays in addition to its internal panel. That would be my ideal setup for WFH, I think. In case it's not obvious, my vision isn't good enough for me to feel strongly about HiDPI. =)
But, to echo what others have said: this laptop is a clear winner for my use cases. I'm very pleased that they managed to nail modularity without sacrificing build quality and aesthetics.
I might be doing something wrong, but using integer scaling at 2x results in a UI that's a bit too big for my tastes, but if I use 1x I feel it's too small, so fractional scaling seems to be necessary for me to get the right balance. It drives an external monitor at 1920x1080, and was just looking at buying another HDMI adapter, but I haven't yet been able to determine whether or not it's capable of driving two 1920x1080 displays in addition to its internal panel. That would be my ideal setup for WFH, I think. In case it's not obvious, my vision isn't good enough for me to feel strongly about HiDPI. =)
But, to echo what others have said: this laptop is a clear winner for my use cases. I'm very pleased that they managed to nail modularity without sacrificing build quality and aesthetics.
It's capable of driving 2 external monitors that are 1920x1080 or greater. I do it every day.
It runs dual 4ks for me via a thunderbolt doc (and is far less error prone than my 16" MacBook which likes to crash randomly when thunderbolt is connected)
I don't use it for gaming, but there was a slight screen tear issue that can be solved in about 60 seconds. Other than that it works perfectly well with fractional scaling over 3 monitors.
I not gaming, but I do run a 3840x1600 external monitor over USB-C hub with my Framework on PopOS. I have had zero issues so far...
> The build quality is great, love the simplicity and design of the expansion ports, and the repair/upgrade-ability is huge.
I also love the expansion ports.
I am really glad they have raised a series A, because in 3-5 years I want the freedom to upgrade the motherboard without creating a ton of e-waste.
https://frame.work/blog/the-upgradeable-mainboard
I also love the expansion ports.
I am really glad they have raised a series A, because in 3-5 years I want the freedom to upgrade the motherboard without creating a ton of e-waste.
https://frame.work/blog/the-upgradeable-mainboard
I can't remember exactly the situation I was in with power cords and devices, but at least once the ability to just swap which side of my computer the USB-A port was on was extremely useful.
I've come very close to buying a Framework laptop a few times, but I'd only want to run Linux on it and wasn't sure how well it was supported. How are things like wifi, sleep and battery life under Linux?
Fedora 35 is essentially fully supported and I believe their recommended distro[1]. I installed this to test it out and OOTB is was perfect, I may switch to this full time as it has the best vanilla gnome experience too (IMO). The other one they indicate that has near full support after install is Ubuntu 21.04.
FWIW I've been using elementaryOS 6.1 for most of the time and it's been really nice too. Full disclosure though it was pretty DIY; wifi did not work right away (I had to upgrade the kernal), I had to install some software to enable the fingerprint reader, and I needed to manually enable fractional scaling.
I definitely recommend it to run Linux, the community is fantastic and another strong selling point.
[1] https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop
FWIW I've been using elementaryOS 6.1 for most of the time and it's been really nice too. Full disclosure though it was pretty DIY; wifi did not work right away (I had to upgrade the kernal), I had to install some software to enable the fingerprint reader, and I needed to manually enable fractional scaling.
I definitely recommend it to run Linux, the community is fantastic and another strong selling point.
[1] https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop
I'm running Xubuntu on mine and it works fine. Battery life goes down pretty quick when sleeping, and battery life is definitely lower than Windows, but I can still get 4-5 hours of actual work on it.
>Battery life goes down pretty quick when sleeping
Thank you for confirming.
I guess I will have to wait until an improved version of Framework that supports proper sleep.
Thank you for confirming.
I guess I will have to wait until an improved version of Framework that supports proper sleep.
After changing a couple of Group Policy sleep settings in Windows 10, and removing some expansion modules, my framework Laptop uses around 300 mW while asleep. That means it takes the whole night before it drains 5% off the battery (and switches to hibernate). I haven’t yet replicated this in Linux, but I assume it’s possible (someone can correct me if I’m wrong).
Im not sure yet whether it was the settings changes, or certain expansion modules which affect standby drain the most, but I’ve seen forum discussions where people were making progress narrowing it down, and I think the framework peeps were going to look into it. I will do more experimenting today.
Unrelated, but I have been most impressed with the framework guys already adding two BIOS settings I love based on other peoples’ feedback (dimming the power led & max battery charge).
This may help:
mem_sleep_default=deep
Elevated Systems did a comprehensive setup guide a couple days ago. There are a some extra steps to go through, but it seems to work well with Ubuntu 21.10.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jibqw5C3gk8&t=15m45s - timestamp to where he discusses fixing sleep issues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jibqw5C3gk8&t=15m45s - timestamp to where he discusses fixing sleep issues
Thank you for link to the video. I watched the relevant part, where it's suggested to set pcie_aspm_on_bat=powersupersave. According to the Framework forums, this is not helping and people see 7-8W power consumption while in this "powersupersave" mode ([1]).
It sounds like the setting is there, but it does not work. Framework needs to fix that.
1. https://community.frame.work/t/issues-with-power-usage/12261
It sounds like the setting is there, but it does not work. Framework needs to fix that.
1. https://community.frame.work/t/issues-with-power-usage/12261
If you read the rest of that thread, you'll find the issue was resolved and it was not an issue with the laptop:
https://community.frame.work/t/issues-with-power-usage/12261...
> Issue was that I was running linux-zen, strangely. With linux-zen, the CPU wouldn’t get past C3 and idle power usage was 7-13W. With regular linux, the CPU reaches C8 and idle power usage is ~5W. Strange that linux-zen did that, but ok ig
The other main culprit is whether or not you can successfully enable PSR for the display. IIRC, the laptop cannot hit C8 or C10 sleep states without PSR enabled, even if you have the ASPM power saving mode enabled.
Speaking for myself, running Debian unstable, after lowering the display brightness, with the right settings my laptop easily hits 2.5-3W idle.
https://community.frame.work/t/issues-with-power-usage/12261...
> Issue was that I was running linux-zen, strangely. With linux-zen, the CPU wouldn’t get past C3 and idle power usage was 7-13W. With regular linux, the CPU reaches C8 and idle power usage is ~5W. Strange that linux-zen did that, but ok ig
The other main culprit is whether or not you can successfully enable PSR for the display. IIRC, the laptop cannot hit C8 or C10 sleep states without PSR enabled, even if you have the ASPM power saving mode enabled.
Speaking for myself, running Debian unstable, after lowering the display brightness, with the right settings my laptop easily hits 2.5-3W idle.
Nice! Thank you for extracting that. I missed it.
I'm still waiting on a display that will 2x nicely. Fractional scaling on Linux is not my idea of a good time. It's crazy, because they only need to add a couple hundred lines of resolution and it would be perfect.
>It's crazy, because they only need to add a couple hundred lines of resolution and it would be perfect.
To be fair, it's not Framework's fault that fractional scaling in Linux is not great.
To be fair, it's not Framework's fault that fractional scaling in Linux is not great.
True. But I also feel like 2x is inherently better than 1.7x. I'm not a graphics expert, but there's gotta be a reason Apple has stuck to 2x at all costs with every machine they've made for the last 8 years.
I’m not sure of what you meant but Apple supports fractional scaling since Retina screens appeared a decade ago. And it supports it really well. It’s absolutely not stuck at 2x.
Weirdly, X11 fractional scaling essentially does the same thing as Apple and works reasonably well, but Wayland's fractional scaling doesn't and looks like garbage as a result.
Last I checked, for fractional scaling, Apple was 2xing, then using the GPU to resize down. Could have changed by now though. Been a while since I took a look.
IIRC, you are right. But it works beautifully.
Except, I’m realizing it just now, it’s maybe why LibreOffice looks so bad on my Mac.
Except, I’m realizing it just now, it’s maybe why LibreOffice looks so bad on my Mac.
A buddy of mine once had a 4K monitor and was scaling it to 1.2 on his MacBook. Took him a while to realize that's why his fans were revving up all day long. haha
Seems like just telling apps to draw to a larger window is the way to go, which is why I don't understand why Apple and Wayland do it by scaling down an integer. Gotta be a good reason.
Seems like just telling apps to draw to a larger window is the way to go, which is why I don't understand why Apple and Wayland do it by scaling down an integer. Gotta be a good reason.
+1. I'm holding on buying a Framework laptop because I've heard that it does not support proper sleep. It would be great to hear if the issues with heating / losing battery when sleeping in a backpack are real or not.
There's 2 supported sleep modes, referred to as "s2idle" and "deep" in /sys/power/mem_sleep. My limited understanding is this:
- "s2idle" = S0ix and "deep" = S3
- S0ix is similar to how smartphones go to sleep by just idling everything and not actually sleeping. On the Framework it drains around 1 or 2% per hour (I haven't measured exactly.)
- S3 sleep is the more familiar suspend-to-RAM functionality. The power drain is significantly less than S0ix.
Both sleep modes work fine in Ubuntu 21.10 on my Framework. I actually have mine set to S0ix because while S3 sleep has less battery drain, it takes something like 10 seconds longer than S0ix to wake back up after opening the lid. And since I'm mostly working from home, the battery drain isn't an issue for me.
Still, the difference between the two is significant enough that I kind of wish there were separate menu options for both. Though I realize that having "sleep" and "deeper sleep" menu options is not the most user-friendly design.
Of course you can also get hibernate (i.e. suspend to disk and turn off power completely) running, but my understanding is that hibernate is currently incompatible with Secure Boot, since it's non-trivial to verify that the system is resuming with the same kernel as the original boot. So you have to choose which one you want, hibernate or SB.
- "s2idle" = S0ix and "deep" = S3
- S0ix is similar to how smartphones go to sleep by just idling everything and not actually sleeping. On the Framework it drains around 1 or 2% per hour (I haven't measured exactly.)
- S3 sleep is the more familiar suspend-to-RAM functionality. The power drain is significantly less than S0ix.
Both sleep modes work fine in Ubuntu 21.10 on my Framework. I actually have mine set to S0ix because while S3 sleep has less battery drain, it takes something like 10 seconds longer than S0ix to wake back up after opening the lid. And since I'm mostly working from home, the battery drain isn't an issue for me.
Still, the difference between the two is significant enough that I kind of wish there were separate menu options for both. Though I realize that having "sleep" and "deeper sleep" menu options is not the most user-friendly design.
Of course you can also get hibernate (i.e. suspend to disk and turn off power completely) running, but my understanding is that hibernate is currently incompatible with Secure Boot, since it's non-trivial to verify that the system is resuming with the same kernel as the original boot. So you have to choose which one you want, hibernate or SB.
Thank you for adding these details.
My current Linux laptop (released in 2015) can sleep for about week, resume in 3-4 seconds. Am I reading your comment correctly that buying a Framework would degrade my user experience?
My current Linux laptop (released in 2015) can sleep for about week, resume in 3-4 seconds. Am I reading your comment correctly that buying a Framework would degrade my user experience?
Yes, at least from what I've experienced, you can have "resume in 2 seconds" or "sleep for a week" but not both. (S0ix and S3 respectively)
To be fair, I don't think this is Framework's fault. My understanding is that this is a limitation of the current generation of Intel CPUs, so pretty much any current-gen Intel-based computer will have the same issue.
To be fair, I don't think this is Framework's fault. My understanding is that this is a limitation of the current generation of Intel CPUs, so pretty much any current-gen Intel-based computer will have the same issue.
> you can have "resume in 2 seconds" or "sleep for a week" but not both. (S0ix and S3 respectively)
The way Windows laptops do this is to go from light sleep to deep sleep after being idle for a long period. You should be able to pull off the same trick in Linux.
The way Windows laptops do this is to go from light sleep to deep sleep after being idle for a long period. You should be able to pull off the same trick in Linux.
I would actually greatly appreciate such a feature. Essentially hybrid sleep except that the two types of sleep are different kinds of low power states instead of suspend to RAM and disk.
Set up your laptop to RTC wake up x hours after suspend, go to deeper sleep. Should be 100% userspace, shouldn't need code changes in anything preexisting, and be mostly a question of configuration.
How do you tell if the wakeup is due to the RTC wake event or due to something initiated by the user (e.g. lid open, power button pressed, etc.)? Obviously you want to deep sleep after the former but not after the latter.
Maybe you can ask the RTC alarm whether it's still armed. I don't know if they automatically clear the enabled flag when the alarm occurs. See RTC_WKALM_RD in https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man4/rtc.4.html
If not, well, you know what time the alarm is. That leaves a race, but there's a race regardless -- the human might have opened the laptop lid exactly after the RTC alarm went off.
EDIT: Yup, confirmed in kernel source, Linux makes sure /sys/devices/platform/rtc_cmos/rtc/rtc*/wakealarm is single-shot, so you can see whether it triggered.
If not, well, you know what time the alarm is. That leaves a race, but there's a race regardless -- the human might have opened the laptop lid exactly after the RTC alarm went off.
EDIT: Yup, confirmed in kernel source, Linux makes sure /sys/devices/platform/rtc_cmos/rtc/rtc*/wakealarm is single-shot, so you can see whether it triggered.
depends a bit on the specific setup if and where it's exposed. dmidecode can sometimes see it, and various other bits might also log it so it's worth poking around dmesg/journalctl/...
Yes. This is why I switched to simply hibernating, which has worked flawlessly for me. The shutdown and startup times are obviously a bit longer (it takes 10 seconds to get to the bootloader, after which its about 12 seconds to wake up), but since it's truly off, it can remain asleep indefinitely.
Do you have a link to a community thread or any other link on how to implement the hibernation? Right now, anytime I am closing the lid, the battery is draining out.
I just used the Arch wiki for basic setup:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Power_management/Suspend_an...
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Power_management#Suspend_an...
I have my machine set to suspend on lid close and hibernate on power button.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Power_management/Suspend_an...
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Power_management#Suspend_an...
I have my machine set to suspend on lid close and hibernate on power button.
Does it really take only 3 seconds to resume from hibernate? That seems implausibly fast, faster than S3 resume.
Nope! I absolutely lied!
Decided to actually time it.
It's 10 seconds from power button to grub bootloader, then 12 seconds from bootloader to login screen.
I decided to run the same test coming out of S3, and it takes 14 seconds on my macine to go from power button to login screen.
So waking from hibernation is roughly 8 seconds slower, or approximately the time it takes to get to grub.
Decided to actually time it.
It's 10 seconds from power button to grub bootloader, then 12 seconds from bootloader to login screen.
I decided to run the same test coming out of S3, and it takes 14 seconds on my macine to go from power button to login screen.
So waking from hibernation is roughly 8 seconds slower, or approximately the time it takes to get to grub.
Unusable for me because it needs to be scaled fractionally. Unless they come out with a v2 which supports integer scaling, the laptop in its current form isn't worth buying if you don't like high input latency.
I couldn't find on their site, is the casework/cassis plastic or aluminium?
Thankfully it's aluminum!
Businesses can't stay true to their vision once they take investor money. Now the investors are in charge and they want maximum return on investment.
Never take outside money unless there is simply no other way.
Never take outside money unless there is simply no other way.
Yea i think they're going to be my next laptop when it's time for me to upgrade.
> We’re not ready to share what the next products are just yet, but this funding unlocks categories even more ambitious than our first one. We have a detailed plan in place for the next two years and napkin sketch ideas going out a couple of decades.
It'll be really interesting to see where they go next. Given that they're already in computer and custom board space, I'd make a guess that it's going to be routers - similarly embedded devices and they'd make a great option for replaceable parts (i.e. WiFi, connection options etc).
It'll be really interesting to see where they go next. Given that they're already in computer and custom board space, I'd make a guess that it's going to be routers - similarly embedded devices and they'd make a great option for replaceable parts (i.e. WiFi, connection options etc).
I can't help but think it'd be a smart move for them to either merge with System76 or become joint developers of Pop OS. If they could make Pop become a 1st class OS on Framework, they'd be able to provide a Linux experience that is just about as smooth out of the box as any Mac or Windows.
Pop OS pretty much works without fuss on Framework, but taking care of the final 5-10% of tuning would make all the difference for many people to make the switch.
Pop OS pretty much works without fuss on Framework, but taking care of the final 5-10% of tuning would make all the difference for many people to make the switch.
I hope they start by offering larger laptops - I tend to prefer 17". I was looking at Framework when buying a new laptop last year but as they only offered the smaller model (and weren't shipping to the EU at the time) I went with a Dell. Obviously I hope my current laptop lasts as long as possible but if/when it gives up the ghost I would be very interested in buying a Framework if they are offering a 17" by then.
This is what's preventing me from pulling the trigger. 15" or larger would be great for me.
I hope they also launch modular tablet.
I would sure like to have a thick mobile workstation with a better battery, a good initial selection of built-in ports and an ability to add those expansion cards too (think specialist ports like video input or a serial port).
I would love for them to expand their laptop offerings to include something a bit more powerful. It seems like a much easier expansion rather than moving into routers.
I assume they're going to expand their laptop offering either way, but adding a larger model is probably not want they mean with more ambitious :)
I figured adding in a swappable GPU would be fairly ambitious, which is something I'd expect in a model like this.
As opposed to just taking what they have and putting it in a larger form factor, which, yeah, doesn't seem terribly ambitious.
As opposed to just taking what they have and putting it in a larger form factor, which, yeah, doesn't seem terribly ambitious.
More ambitious than a laptop it's a phone
It would be amazing if they could also sell repairable household electrical goods like washing machine, dishwasher, etc - in the future.
These are plagued by planed obsolescence. I would totally pay for repairable ones even with a premium. Imagine a dishwasher that you can hack and program yourself :D
These are plagued by planed obsolescence. I would totally pay for repairable ones even with a premium. Imagine a dishwasher that you can hack and program yourself :D
Why do you think these are not repairable? More often than not, these things use PCBs that have been manufactured for decades, with multiple manufacturers often using the same designs. I've just repaired the power supply of my fridge, but if I wanted to, I could've bought a compressor for it, either new or refurb.
Imo the main issue, is that these things are so cheap that replacement is cheaper than repair labor + cost of parts.
Imo the main issue, is that these things are so cheap that replacement is cheaper than repair labor + cost of parts.
There are lots of reasons they aren't repairable. Lack of documentation and debug access is probably the biggest one. My washing machine died, and it looked like some components on the PCB blew. I bought a replacement for around £50 (already a crazy move) but sadly it didn't work. Not really anywhere you can go from there unless you're a professional washing machine repair man.
My fridge also had some kind of fault with the drainage tube (kept freezing up) but there's simply no way to access it. The back panel is not removable.
> PCBs that have been manufactured for decades ... same designs.
Absolutely not the case. Go and look up any washing machine control board. They're different for almost every model.
Washing machines & fridges may be better; I've never had to take one apart.
The only good solution to this problem I've come up with is requiring manufacturers to dispose of unwanted appliances for free. That way they have at least some incentive to make them last for a long time and be easily recyclable / repairable.
My fridge also had some kind of fault with the drainage tube (kept freezing up) but there's simply no way to access it. The back panel is not removable.
> PCBs that have been manufactured for decades ... same designs.
Absolutely not the case. Go and look up any washing machine control board. They're different for almost every model.
Washing machines & fridges may be better; I've never had to take one apart.
The only good solution to this problem I've come up with is requiring manufacturers to dispose of unwanted appliances for free. That way they have at least some incentive to make them last for a long time and be easily recyclable / repairable.
I'm not an expert on washing machine-ology, so sorry if I sound like a smartass, but a quick google search confirmed my suspicions - lower end washing machines tend to use the same PCBs, a telltale sign being that the controls/displays tend to be in the same place.
To be honest, even if you can't find a PCB replacement, a faulty PCB can be fixed by inspecting the components and/or replacing them. Usually it costs only a couple of dollars and an hour of soldering time, less if you are good at it.
Microcontrollers obviously are not as easy, but as luck would have it, my old (early 2000s) machine doesn't even have one - it is driven by those rotary encoder dial thingies that move in a circle and open/close various traces to begin/end program steps.
To be honest, even if you can't find a PCB replacement, a faulty PCB can be fixed by inspecting the components and/or replacing them. Usually it costs only a couple of dollars and an hour of soldering time, less if you are good at it.
Microcontrollers obviously are not as easy, but as luck would have it, my old (early 2000s) machine doesn't even have one - it is driven by those rotary encoder dial thingies that move in a circle and open/close various traces to begin/end program steps.
> even if you can't find a PCB replacement, a faulty PCB can be fixed by inspecting the components and/or replacing them
Yeah right. Maybe if you're lucky or it's all low power stuff but circuits aren't generally designed to isolate failures. If one thing fails it will often cause other components to fail invisibly.
And yes I have tried it. The main transistor on an amplifier I had blew. Replaced it. Still doesn't work.
Yeah right. Maybe if you're lucky or it's all low power stuff but circuits aren't generally designed to isolate failures. If one thing fails it will often cause other components to fail invisibly.
And yes I have tried it. The main transistor on an amplifier I had blew. Replaced it. Still doesn't work.
> a faulty PCB can be fixed by inspecting the components and/or replacing them. Usually it costs only a couple of dollars and an hour of soldering time, less if you are good at it.
That's a pretty steep DIY requirement. Wonder how robust the market is for these kinds of repair skills. Hard to know when you have a problem like this, who to call about it, and how much it'll cost to fix.
That's a pretty steep DIY requirement. Wonder how robust the market is for these kinds of repair skills. Hard to know when you have a problem like this, who to call about it, and how much it'll cost to fix.
I mean yeah. But hunting down a skilled repairman as you said, or browsing for a new machine that fits in the exact same place as the old one, and then wrestling with that hulking beast is no easy task either.
Yes, I was looking at replacing the bathroom air vents that were likely installed when my house was built 50 years ago, and the manufacturer still makes the replacement motor and fan assembly for the one I got. Replacing these two parts costs about 50% more than buying a brand new one at home depot, but the fact that these lasted 50 years before needing replacement has convinced me to spend the extra money.
Well, repairable is a spectrum and for someone inexperienced it sounds quite daunting to repair their fridge's power supply. However the repairability that e.g. a Framework laptop has (swapping out new parts) is much simpler and requires little expertise.
I feel like the Framework doesn't rate very highly on that spectrum. It seems like it's motherboard is replaceable as a single unit, just like every other laptop.
For example, if you watch Louis Rossmann's videos, you'll see that a typical repair he does is replacing the power driver IC for the display on MacBooks, which would be a motherboard replacement if done by Apple themselves.
On the framework, I don't see why it would be less effort.
For example, if you watch Louis Rossmann's videos, you'll see that a typical repair he does is replacing the power driver IC for the display on MacBooks, which would be a motherboard replacement if done by Apple themselves.
On the framework, I don't see why it would be less effort.
The dishwashers I've seen have been super repairable. I recently fixed my parent's Whirlpool because the circulation pump had an intermittent fault. Once I diagnosed the problem, removing it took a single screw, and a new pump was $120 from a local appliance parts store. Diagnosis was by far the hardest part, but only because I had no idea how a dishwasher even worked. The actual repair was straightforward.
Wow that's quite a contrast with my Miele -- the pump broke (after 5 years of basically 2x daily use), and apparently it would have cost $600 for the pump, and $300 for the labour, so they just upsold us a new dishwasher (which only costs $1200 for the entry model, which is what this was), in which case they'd waive the labour charge.
There are a few companies who are focusing on sustainability/repairabilty, you just have to look (sometimes very hard) and then take the risk that the company won't be in business in 5 years.
One example I came across recently after hearing how hard Dyson vacuums are to repair is Lupe https://lupetechnology.com/
"Someone" should make a list of these companies, or maybe there is already some site or place which focuses on quality-repairability-longetivity?
One example I came across recently after hearing how hard Dyson vacuums are to repair is Lupe https://lupetechnology.com/
"Someone" should make a list of these companies, or maybe there is already some site or place which focuses on quality-repairability-longetivity?
There is a community on Reddit called "BuyItForLife"[1] with such focus.
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/
https://www.fixyourboard.com/
These guys have built a nice little business fixing appliance pcb's. Most household appliances are fairly repairable given the time/patience. The issue becomes the cost/benefit. I have a kitchenaid dishwasher that is about 7 years old now. About 3 years ago the heater control element broke and it cost me about ~$250 to fix. It would have cost a repairman ~$350. The dishwasher itself only cost $500. So if it breaks again I'm not sure I'll so readily try and fix it...
These guys have built a nice little business fixing appliance pcb's. Most household appliances are fairly repairable given the time/patience. The issue becomes the cost/benefit. I have a kitchenaid dishwasher that is about 7 years old now. About 3 years ago the heater control element broke and it cost me about ~$250 to fix. It would have cost a repairman ~$350. The dishwasher itself only cost $500. So if it breaks again I'm not sure I'll so readily try and fix it...
I have a double-oven and double dish-drawers from Fisher & Paykel that I purchased in 2004 that I can still source parts for.
I was able to source parts for my 2004 Whirlpool french-door fridge until the sealed system finally died two years ago. That required a new fridge, sadly.
We replaced our washing machine and dryer a couple years ago, but that was only to upgrade to HE models. I could have repaired the circa 2000 washing machine. Not sure if the new HE models will be as easy to repair.
I was able to source parts for my 2004 Whirlpool french-door fridge until the sealed system finally died two years ago. That required a new fridge, sadly.
We replaced our washing machine and dryer a couple years ago, but that was only to upgrade to HE models. I could have repaired the circa 2000 washing machine. Not sure if the new HE models will be as easy to repair.
The Frameworks are really good. However, the chips inside are disappointing, IMO.
I was considering the i5 1135g7 Framework with 16gb of RAM. A friend of mine bought it, and it's idle power draw is of 8-9W with Gnome 3 and Firefox open.
I decided to get a laptop with a 5800H and an RTX 3070 instead. My power consumption as I'm typing this comment right now is of 7W with a dozen tabs and an IDE, messaging, etc... open. That is despite a 46% larger screen, and a much faster, unlocked TDP, 8 core CPU.
That's a real shame, IMO. Combined with a 55Wh battery, it's quite problematic, and was a deal-breaker for me.
I was considering the i5 1135g7 Framework with 16gb of RAM. A friend of mine bought it, and it's idle power draw is of 8-9W with Gnome 3 and Firefox open.
I decided to get a laptop with a 5800H and an RTX 3070 instead. My power consumption as I'm typing this comment right now is of 7W with a dozen tabs and an IDE, messaging, etc... open. That is despite a 46% larger screen, and a much faster, unlocked TDP, 8 core CPU.
That's a real shame, IMO. Combined with a 55Wh battery, it's quite problematic, and was a deal-breaker for me.
My hope is that they release an ARM mainboard, so I can swap it in. For now though, I'd rather buy from them than the fruit company.
I mean, It's not just ARM. There are plenty of x86 laptops that can get 13-14 hours of battery life under light use.
Yeah I'm really hopeful there will be a move to more power efficient chips in them. I love this laptop but the battery life from this chipset is a real downer.
Supposedly it's possible to get the idle power draw down to around 2.5W, but it requires some very up-to-date kernel features.
That is I/O dependent, apparently. If you use the wrong peripheral cards, it seems you're SOL
Ever since the framework came out, I've been half-hoping for my laptop to die. It really is like someone made exactly the laptop I want, but I really don't need a new laptop at this point, and I tend to use laptops for 5-10 years. Here's hoping that Framework is still around say 2-7 years from now!
I am in a similar situation. I would love to purchase one, but my current laptop works fine and I don't need to make more e-waste due to cool new shiny thing! But they will stay on my mind.
Which is why I wish they have some crowdfunding or crowd lending feature. I dont need a laptop now. But if they need cash flow I am willing to lend them money for practically low / zero interest rate.
But from the blog post looks like they are doing extremely fine.
But from the blog post looks like they are doing extremely fine.
I suppose that's a disadvantage peculiar to manufacturers targeting reduced waste: their customers aren't going to upgrade as often...
As someone whose first task on buying a new laptop every ten years is to install the latest Ubuntu LTS version, a company which makes machines that work perfectly with Ubuntu and have a life of around 10 years will have me as a customer for life.
If you are a 38 year old man, actuarial tables suggest that this translates to 4 more laptops over 40 years[1]. I believe their point is that this does not make you a particularly valuable customer.
I would argue that there is value in a brand that consumers trust to last for a long time. For example, if Framework launched a printer, you might be tempted to pay a premium for a product you knew was high quality and repairable.
[1] https://www.annuityadvantage.com/resources/life-expectancy-t...
I would argue that there is value in a brand that consumers trust to last for a long time. For example, if Framework launched a printer, you might be tempted to pay a premium for a product you knew was high quality and repairable.
[1] https://www.annuityadvantage.com/resources/life-expectancy-t...
Exactly; I have friends who buy a new laptop every other year; they are not concerned with longevity or upgradability so the framework could only attract them through increased customization options, which is a harder sell.
If they buy from Dell, and I buy from Framework, Dell sells 5x as many laptops.
If they buy from Dell, and I buy from Framework, Dell sells 5x as many laptops.
Scary: how do you know I am a 38 year old man? :)
I can't tell if you are serious or joking. If you are a 38 year old man, I apologize for the concern.
I wanted a life expectancy that was evenly divisible by ten. A 42 year old woman and a 38 year old man both have a life expectancy of 40 years based on the actuarial table I found. I played the odds and chose a 38 year old man for the example.
I wanted a life expectancy that was evenly divisible by ten. A 42 year old woman and a 38 year old man both have a life expectancy of 40 years based on the actuarial table I found. I played the odds and chose a 38 year old man for the example.
Is there a miniature ASIO soundcard planned for one of the slots? Not needing to carry an external audio interface around when working within a DAW is a major factor that's keeping me on MacOS (both pro audio and consumer use the same driver there).
They publish the CAD files (both mechanical and electrical) on GitHub with instructions on how to manufacture your own expansion cards. I believe the interface within the expansion cards is just standard USB-C. If someone could manage to squeeze all the necessary components within the physical dimensions, it should be possible to make your own soundcard expansion card.
https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards
https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards
Maybe addional hardware wouldn't even be needed. Onboard soundcards should be good enough for ASIO (they work fine on Hackintoshs and Core Audio on MacOS). The reason why it's not offered is the licensing I think, it's properietary technology from Steinberg, a German company who invested into Windows pro audio early on and kinda got a first mover advantage there.
I don't know how much licensing would cost, but Framework could possibly offer a driver for the internal card as an addon. Then the slot could be used for a small headphone amp which would be more third party friendly I think.
I don't know how much licensing would cost, but Framework could possibly offer a driver for the internal card as an addon. Then the slot could be used for a small headphone amp which would be more third party friendly I think.
Do people not remember that these things existed?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Card
You could get standardised addons for laptops, but I guess they disappeared due to lack of interest/better alternatives.
It's weird how the world goes around in circles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_Card
You could get standardised addons for laptops, but I guess they disappeared due to lack of interest/better alternatives.
It's weird how the world goes around in circles.
The only things 99% of people used PCMCIA for were networking (modems, Ethernet, or Wi-Fi) and once that got built in people didn't really need slots. The long tail of I/O is now handled by USB/Thunderbolt dongles.
I had those, but think framework’s design with a flat face for the port is a better design. For example one of my cards was the xylink? ether card with full-size port was the most useful. Looked like this: https://eu.dlink.com/pl/pl/-/media/product-pages/dfe/670txd/...
You don't need "professional" drivers for your sound card in 2022, latency and stability are mostly a solved problem. There are a few "nice to haves" about ASIO on Windows but it's almost entirely useless, and it's not like Steinberg is maintaining ASIO anymore.
This could be done by a third party too
This is something I would be interested in too.
a high-quality DAC would be pretty neat. I'm not sure what connectors would be best though. RCA would be ideal, but those are probably too thick. Mini jack is obvious, but low quality.
It'd be particularly cool to get balanced outputs.
It'd be particularly cool to get balanced outputs.
While other comments are wishing for the company to expand outside of laptops, I really hope they won't loose their focus. There is so much they can improve on in laptop space.
I'm a biased Framework owner, but fantastic news and congrats to anyone hanging out here.
I feel there has been a growing market for a company like this over the last few years with the RTR movement and upgrade cycles for hardware delivering less than they previously did.
I feel there has been a growing market for a company like this over the last few years with the RTR movement and upgrade cycles for hardware delivering less than they previously did.
The first time I set eyes on their modular port tech, I knew this company was going places. I have a Lenovo X1 Carbon but I think my next laptop will be a framework if I continue to hear good things. Any statements on quality since people have had them for a bit now?
Love mine. Been my favorite laptop ever. Haven't touched my Macbook since (but I never enjoyed MacOS so that wasn't hard).
I've enjoyed this laptop a lot, with build quality and ease-of-DIY my top likes. The only issue I've had is with the touchpad mechanical click not registering, but they replaced it and I'm happy with it now.
I purchased one last year and it's been great so far.
Pros: - price. I have spare RAM and NVME ssd so this brings the price further down - modular port...
Cons: - display/hinge is not very stable - touch pad is not as good as macbook's. I can't reliably click-and-drag using a singe hand (thumb finger to click, then index finger to drag). On macbook this gesture works perfectly fine.
Wish there is a bigger version, and/or a swappable battery!
Pros: - price. I have spare RAM and NVME ssd so this brings the price further down - modular port...
Cons: - display/hinge is not very stable - touch pad is not as good as macbook's. I can't reliably click-and-drag using a singe hand (thumb finger to click, then index finger to drag). On macbook this gesture works perfectly fine.
Wish there is a bigger version, and/or a swappable battery!
Very happy owner of the laptop, but the display hinge is the only thing I don't like about it.
It's just a bit too lose, to the point that the screen will slowly fold flat over the course of an hour on my lap. It's also just lose enough that it transfers a lot of vibrations on my desk (from typing) into wobble on the camera during screen-shares.
If that hinge were just a bit tighter, I'd have no complaints about it. It's a great laptop.
It's just a bit too lose, to the point that the screen will slowly fold flat over the course of an hour on my lap. It's also just lose enough that it transfers a lot of vibrations on my desk (from typing) into wobble on the camera during screen-shares.
If that hinge were just a bit tighter, I'd have no complaints about it. It's a great laptop.
"I can't reliably click-and-drag using a singe hand" --- Does a single-finger double tap and drag not work?
Once I learned this gesture, dragging with the touchpad went from "horribly frustrating" to "so easy I can do it without thinking". Would be curious if/how it doesn't work for some folks.
Exactly the same story here.
I love my framework as well! My main con is the battery life, although part of that is because I set the max charge % to 90 to hopefully protect long-term life
Try index finger to click, middle finger to drag. That's always been my habit.
It's worse than using the thumb because you have less range and it's a lot less comfortable. Thumb-click index-drag is for me also a requirement.
This website showed to me in French while I have my browser in English and am in the Netherlands.
If I want to switch to Dutch, it won't let me. My basic understanding of French is that this product is not yet available in my country. Still horrible experience. Why not show me the English page?
This website makes the wrong assumption someone's language is tied to the location.
If I want to switch to Dutch, it won't let me. My basic understanding of French is that this product is not yet available in my country. Still horrible experience. Why not show me the English page?
This website makes the wrong assumption someone's language is tied to the location.
> This website makes the wrong assumption someone's language is tied to the location.
This is a bit of a premature "remote debugging" done, though.
From what I see, they use Solidus and Rails as backend. This does not rule out your conclusion. But it is not a typical thing: in Rails (and Spree, from which Solidus is forked) it is, for example, far easier to read out the `Accept-Language` header than to do geo-ip language detection. It is easier to the right thing than the bad. Again: not saying this makes it guaranteed the cause.
More likely causes: location-based caching (you got a cached version which was generated using French), or same thing with a CDN.
More likely, because with Rails (and Solidus, and Spree) it is easy to make too-simple-caches, easier to ignore a parameter when building a cache, than to do right thing.
This is a bit of a premature "remote debugging" done, though.
From what I see, they use Solidus and Rails as backend. This does not rule out your conclusion. But it is not a typical thing: in Rails (and Spree, from which Solidus is forked) it is, for example, far easier to read out the `Accept-Language` header than to do geo-ip language detection. It is easier to the right thing than the bad. Again: not saying this makes it guaranteed the cause.
More likely causes: location-based caching (you got a cached version which was generated using French), or same thing with a CDN.
More likely, because with Rails (and Solidus, and Spree) it is easy to make too-simple-caches, easier to ignore a parameter when building a cache, than to do right thing.
What if I'm in France but speak English? It won't let us switch language / region separately. This is what I meant
I'm not dismissing the issue you encounter: it is stupid and ugly.
I'm merely pointing out that your analysis of why it happens, is lacking.
It reminds me of customers who submit a feature-request or issue in the form of a concrete solution, rather than a good description of the problem they encounter.
"I want a dropdown with flags to switch to another language" vs "I cannot switch languages".
The latter presumes nothing, leaves the implementation to product-manager, -owner, UX designers or developers. The former is not only bad (flags for languages are stupid) it has a big chance of being dismissed entirely. Big chance the dev sees it and thinks "hmm, out of date, we already have that dropdown", but that due to a bug, setup, caching, incompatibility, browser-plugin or whatnot, it doesn't show up for the client.
I'm merely pointing out that your analysis of why it happens, is lacking.
It reminds me of customers who submit a feature-request or issue in the form of a concrete solution, rather than a good description of the problem they encounter.
"I want a dropdown with flags to switch to another language" vs "I cannot switch languages".
The latter presumes nothing, leaves the implementation to product-manager, -owner, UX designers or developers. The former is not only bad (flags for languages are stupid) it has a big chance of being dismissed entirely. Big chance the dev sees it and thinks "hmm, out of date, we already have that dropdown", but that due to a bug, setup, caching, incompatibility, browser-plugin or whatnot, it doesn't show up for the client.
I might have been a bit snarky? I skipped all the compliments and went straight to the point, but that's just me. All the information is there to reproduce the first issue, showing the wrong language in the wrong country.
My second statement wasn't a technical analysis but a principle one. One should not assume someone speaks the language of the country he or she is in. Plus, sometimes a country speaks more than 1 language.
My second statement wasn't a technical analysis but a principle one. One should not assume someone speaks the language of the country he or she is in. Plus, sometimes a country speaks more than 1 language.
May be this will help
https://frame.work/fr/fr/locale/edit
Unfortunately, it does not. Country and language are still coupled, so there's no way place a pre-order with shipping destination France with the website language set to English, for example.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30166510
As mentioned there, for countries like Switzerland with more than two languages, whichever language chosen would be wrong for a majority.
I'd even claim that for the market they're targeting, having English and nothing else for all regions would likely be way better than the current situation.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30166510
As mentioned there, for countries like Switzerland with more than two languages, whichever language chosen would be wrong for a majority.
I'd even claim that for the market they're targeting, having English and nothing else for all regions would likely be way better than the current situation.
I really wish there was a vendor that makes a high-performance ARM-based SOC available to third-parties. The problem with x86 laptops these days is that they feel a generation behind Apple laptops in both power consumption and performance. This doesn't have to be the case. Apple has a great hardware team, but they don't have a monopoly on ARM. There could be competitors out there doing what AMD and Intel won't do.
i'm conflicted over wanting a framework and wanting a mac with the m1 chip. if this were to happen one day, does anybody know if a framework with intel would be able to use a chip like this? (i hardly know anything about hardware so pls school me)
> this funding unlocks categories even more ambitious than our first one.
Any guesses?
I'd love to buy a Framework phone — if they can guarantee Android updates.
Any guesses?
I'd love to buy a Framework phone — if they can guarantee Android updates.
Consider Linux phones instead (Librem 5 or Pinephone). Those are repairable and with lifetime software updates unlike any Android or Graphene OS.
I wish I could buy one in Turkey, but probably our customs would add %80 markup over it considering if they'd clear it in a month. I love my Mac, but Framework excites me and even Thinkpad's are not going well. I miss my XFCE with Arch.
I wished they took it one step at a time rather than tackling so many issues at once. Making a repairable laptop would be enough to jumpstart the mission.
Making it repairable, upgradable, customizable and using morally sourced raw materials seems like too much for a start-up to handle. If they focused on 1 or 2 goals at a time, I reckon they'd be able to manufacture these faster and cheaper.
Making it repairable, upgradable, customizable and using morally sourced raw materials seems like too much for a start-up to handle. If they focused on 1 or 2 goals at a time, I reckon they'd be able to manufacture these faster and cheaper.
> If they focused on 1 or 2 goals at a time, I reckon they'd be able to manufacture these faster and cheaper.
... they went from concept to manufacture of a completely new and novel laptop design in a year. The result, in that year, is a laptop that has a premium feel but is as cheap or cheaper than other competitors in the space, while also hitting all the marks on their mission of repairability and consumer focus.
This is, as far as I can tell, a complete, out-of-the-park success. I can't imagine how they could've executed any more flawlessly.
... they went from concept to manufacture of a completely new and novel laptop design in a year. The result, in that year, is a laptop that has a premium feel but is as cheap or cheaper than other competitors in the space, while also hitting all the marks on their mission of repairability and consumer focus.
This is, as far as I can tell, a complete, out-of-the-park success. I can't imagine how they could've executed any more flawlessly.
It's a similar mission to Fairphone. I imagine as soon as you try to do any one of these things in your product design (repair, upgrade, customize, sourcing, etc) then you get into suppliers, supply chains, and price points where doing all the rest of them is effectively straight forwards and not horribly costly.
I find it interesting we need a start-up to cater for the desire for a repairable and upgradeable laptop. Dell, HP, Asus, MSI etc have already got the money and the expertise. If there's really a market here why haven't they already taken it? My guess is that the market is small though disproportionately represented on HN.
There appear to be several ThinkPad models that are just as repairable as Framework but maybe they don't count because they're black. Framework's real niche appears to be repairable shiny aluminum laptops (that don't run macOS). Compare https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/t14s_gen2_x13... and https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Mainboard+Replacement+Guide/...
Dell recently showed a repairable concept https://www.delltechnologies.com/en-us/blog/pushing-the-boun... that gives pretty strong "don't buy Framework, just wait for us to catch up" vibes. Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29569470
Dell recently showed a repairable concept https://www.delltechnologies.com/en-us/blog/pushing-the-boun... that gives pretty strong "don't buy Framework, just wait for us to catch up" vibes. Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29569470
A market done correctly can cannibalize another market, and that's very much a bad thing when you own both markets. You want to attempt ventures that can get new customers, rather than moving a subset of customers onto a platform where they will spend less money. Forcing people to upgrade often makes more money. Capitalism doesn't optimize for efficiency, it optimizes for revenue.
Small companies are a great tool to squeeze out market inefficiencies. Just look at EVs, which have been useful for decades and only recently seen companies spending large amounts of money on them as a (formerly) small company was laying the marketing groundwork.
Small companies are a great tool to squeeze out market inefficiencies. Just look at EVs, which have been useful for decades and only recently seen companies spending large amounts of money on them as a (formerly) small company was laying the marketing groundwork.
I wish they'd allow configuring the keyboard layout, at least for most spoken languages of the world.
The selection of countries seems pretty good to me: https://frame.work/marketplace/keyboards
The real genius of Framework is that it doesn't even have to be the Framework company manufacturing your favorite keyboard, it's just a standard form factor.
I personally would buy a replacement ortholinear keyboard, if one was available.
The real genius of Framework is that it doesn't even have to be the Framework company manufacturing your favorite keyboard, it's just a standard form factor.
I personally would buy a replacement ortholinear keyboard, if one was available.
> The real genius of Framework is that it doesn't even have to be the Framework company manufacturing your favorite keyboard, it's just a standard form factor.
Not sure how that's useful as the form factor doesn't really allow for a 7-row keyboard, or full-sized arrow keys. Which is a real missed opportunity in my opinion: a laptop (any computer, really) is primarily a device with inputs (keyboard, touchpad) and outputs (display) so naturally you want those to be as good as possible (and if there isn't a 99.9+% consensus on what that means, modular/configurable) as that's what you'll end up using for hours every day. Why compromise on a single "pretty" layout of physical keys?
Not sure how that's useful as the form factor doesn't really allow for a 7-row keyboard, or full-sized arrow keys. Which is a real missed opportunity in my opinion: a laptop (any computer, really) is primarily a device with inputs (keyboard, touchpad) and outputs (display) so naturally you want those to be as good as possible (and if there isn't a 99.9+% consensus on what that means, modular/configurable) as that's what you'll end up using for hours every day. Why compromise on a single "pretty" layout of physical keys?
It's a pretty standard 14" laptop keyboard form factor.
It's not a "single layout" by any means.
If you hate the arrow key layout, blame Apple for popularizing it.
It's not a "single layout" by any means.
If you hate the arrow key layout, blame Apple for popularizing it.
Anyone have any good independent reviews of the laptop to recommend?
Always check notebookcheck.net for the thorough reviews. They test everything meticulously, up to the build quality, monitor (brightness + color + response time), heat dissipation, noise, battery life, etc. These are probably much more important than raw CPU/GPU/RAM, as raw hardware specs are kinda similar around the same category of laptops.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Review-I...
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Framework-Laptop-13-5-Review-I...
I have one and can give a quick review. Overall, it is very nice, but with a few small quirks.
1)Default Ubuntu install was very laggy. Not sure what was up with this.
2)Default Arch install is pretty much perfect.
3)Both Ubuntu and Arch have ok battery life. Pretty much as I expected for an Intel laptop. (i.e. not great)
4)By default, battery drain with the lid closed is pretty bad though. Don't expect to leave it laying around and it to still have battery when you go back to it. There is probably an easy solution to this but I haven't had time to look into it.
1)Default Ubuntu install was very laggy. Not sure what was up with this.
2)Default Arch install is pretty much perfect.
3)Both Ubuntu and Arch have ok battery life. Pretty much as I expected for an Intel laptop. (i.e. not great)
4)By default, battery drain with the lid closed is pretty bad though. Don't expect to leave it laying around and it to still have battery when you go back to it. There is probably an easy solution to this but I haven't had time to look into it.
The lag in Ubuntu was likely a Panel Self Refresh support issue in that kernel. We posted a workaround here: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Ubuntu+21.10+Installation+on...
There is some community discussion on ways to optimize suspend power consumption as well: https://community.frame.work/t/ubuntu-21-10-on-the-framework...
There is some community discussion on ways to optimize suspend power consumption as well: https://community.frame.work/t/ubuntu-21-10-on-the-framework...
Turning off PS2 emulation in BIOS was huge for me on battery savings as well as the other steps linked in other comments.
Is the hardware entirely open source and free from patents?
I'm talking about schematics, PCB layouts and 3D models of the chassis.
Nothing proprietary or patented?
I'm talking about schematics, PCB layouts and 3D models of the chassis.
Nothing proprietary or patented?
> this funding unlocks categories even more ambitious than our first one.
A Framework car with open source ECM would be quite an ambitious project!
A Framework car with open source ECM would be quite an ambitious project!
I would buy a framework in a heartbeat if they add a decent hz display and a few other comfort features I'm accustomed to from running linux on a long line of Razer and the Asus G-series of gaming laptops. 120hz and a 1650ti would make this thing amazing and wouldn't push the price point very far at all (especially if it's optional).
I have your laptop (4th batch). It's great! Love it! Looking forward to what you folks do in the future.
Maybe a next step could be a router like https://eu.protectli.com/product/fw6e/ ?
Protectli is very nice, but the area could use a push forward.
Protectli is very nice, but the area could use a push forward.
My heart sank when I saw this, is it that do we feel the need to keep raising money from power hungry venture capitalists?
Congratulations to the Framework team! :)
I very much am looking forward to their next product, and I hope they stick to their goal of a sustainable, consumer-friendly laptop ecosystem.
I very much am looking forward to their next product, and I hope they stick to their goal of a sustainable, consumer-friendly laptop ecosystem.
Can't wait for the 15" model - hope its coming soon.
For the posts about battery and sleep problems: do Framework have a recommended and well tested distro/setup they know works well? If not, why not?
I heard the framework works with linux distros well, can anyone recommend places to check laptops linux support in general?
/r/framework is quite helpful. From what I've seen on there, any distro w/ an up-to-date kernel works well. So Fedora 35, for example.
You might be best picking a distro and then looking at the support specifically for that. The distros that move quicker with the times are probably more suitable, but it's always possible to get stuff like debian stable running on cutting edge hardware, with some effort with kernel and userland. It'll be typical stuff like wifi and gpu support but, at least in my experience, they can generally be made to work. I'm sure you'd be fine with Arch or latest Ubuntu etc.
Really hoping that this year brings direct Framework sales to European destinations.
Pretty excited about this. Really looking forward to getting the next gen.
What linux distro works best in a framework? Any headaches with drivers?
I remember finding this laptop when searching for a new one. I loved it, but I wanted AMD instead of Intel. I ended buying an Asus G713QR, gaming laptop, but very powerful and with an amazing screen.
One reason I'm hopeful about Framework is that I've recently realized I care a lot about keyboard / key caps.
When I shopped for a development laptop recently, some gaming laptops were really good matches for my needs. But the keyboards / key caps were squishy rubbery things that I couldn't get used to.
It would be awesome each buyer could tweak the laptop design based on personal preferences, where large manufacturers could never justify selling that exact config due to low demand.
When I shopped for a development laptop recently, some gaming laptops were really good matches for my needs. But the keyboards / key caps were squishy rubbery things that I couldn't get used to.
It would be awesome each buyer could tweak the laptop design based on personal preferences, where large manufacturers could never justify selling that exact config due to low demand.
That's what's good of the Framework. Definitely, the keyboard and screen are the first filters, then specifications. There's really not many options for powerful laptops outside gaming now. The keyboard on this one, it's wonderful.
With a friend, we had an idea of making custom keyboards for all laptops. With a 3d printer you may get away dealing with most of the covers. We desisted from the idea noticing that to change the keyboards you have to practically disassembly the complete laptop, testing would be very expensive too.
With a friend, we had an idea of making custom keyboards for all laptops. With a 3d printer you may get away dealing with most of the covers. We desisted from the idea noticing that to change the keyboards you have to practically disassembly the complete laptop, testing would be very expensive too.
This is great news! Congrats to Framework!
When is a 15" laptop coming out?
Edited: We've posted in the February Who's Hiring thread too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30165535
Please do that in the Who Is Hiring thread instead. The Feb thread is just out today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30164271.
Congrats!
Some feedback from a global visitor-who-tried-but-gave-up-to-preorder:
Please decouple preferences for language/location/currency. You may be surprised about the number of people in your target market who aren't native speakers of the local language in their place of residence, and using credit cards denominated in a foreign currency (sometimes with ridiculous conversion rates).
Having them default to the same might be reasonable but never make hard assumptions about your visitors like that.
Look at iherb.com and aliexpress for two sites that IMO get this right.
Some feedback from a global visitor-who-tried-but-gave-up-to-preorder:
Please decouple preferences for language/location/currency. You may be surprised about the number of people in your target market who aren't native speakers of the local language in their place of residence, and using credit cards denominated in a foreign currency (sometimes with ridiculous conversion rates).
Having them default to the same might be reasonable but never make hard assumptions about your visitors like that.
Look at iherb.com and aliexpress for two sites that IMO get this right.
Absolutely! A great suggestion. Even more important for countries with multiple dominant languages. Switzerland comes to mind: four official languages, a pretty even split between French, German, and Italian, and a large number of non-native speakers who prefer English.
It drives me crazy when these are coupled because they have to make an opinionated choice that, for the Swiss use case, has to be wrong for the majority of users.
It drives me crazy when these are coupled because they have to make an opinionated choice that, for the Swiss use case, has to be wrong for the majority of users.
Congratulations!
Can you please blog a bit on origins of framework? I read in press releases elsewhere that you 3D printed the prototype laptop. It'd be very interesting to see how such startups get off the ground. Given that multiple tech-shops have tried and binned plans for modular hardware, framework's early success is remarkable... yet, the story of its nascent stages remain elusive.
Can you please blog a bit on origins of framework? I read in press releases elsewhere that you 3D printed the prototype laptop. It'd be very interesting to see how such startups get off the ground. Given that multiple tech-shops have tried and binned plans for modular hardware, framework's early success is remarkable... yet, the story of its nascent stages remain elusive.
I wrote a blog post yesterday about how I think about hardware startups, which generalizes some of how Framework has worked so far: https://eclecti.cc/bytes/what-hardware-is-hard-really-means
I would like to write more about Framework as well, but will give it more time to be more sure of what worked and what didn't.
I would like to write more about Framework as well, but will give it more time to be more sure of what worked and what didn't.
It’s always a shame such cool positions are US only. Would love to find some of these kind of companies in the EU (or more US positions that more easily allow non-US workers)
We're currently hiring in the US and Taiwan, where we have entities set up. We will likely set up an EU entity to open up hiring there too, but we don't have a timeline for that at the moment.
You probably already know this, but "an EU entity [for] hiring" means very different things for EU citizens than for permanent residents or visa holders/seekers.
Since the EU is not an immigration union, as a permanent resident of Germany I am only allowed to work in Germany, not in any other EU country. Granted, I could probably get a work visa for another EU country, but if I wanted to remain a German resident things would get tricky very fast.
For fresh or prospective immigrants it's generally less favorable; and every EU country has different regulations as well as attitudes to immigrants from different regions.
Thus I recommend, when you get to that point, that you do some research about which EU countries are most advantageous to you and your potential workforce, and open subsidiaries in the countries that make sense. Probably more than one, out of the gate. Because missing out on the pool of immigrant talent in Europe is probably not your goal.
And congratulations on the funding!
Since the EU is not an immigration union, as a permanent resident of Germany I am only allowed to work in Germany, not in any other EU country. Granted, I could probably get a work visa for another EU country, but if I wanted to remain a German resident things would get tricky very fast.
For fresh or prospective immigrants it's generally less favorable; and every EU country has different regulations as well as attitudes to immigrants from different regions.
Thus I recommend, when you get to that point, that you do some research about which EU countries are most advantageous to you and your potential workforce, and open subsidiaries in the countries that make sense. Probably more than one, out of the gate. Because missing out on the pool of immigrant talent in Europe is probably not your goal.
And congratulations on the funding!
I suppose the gripe is more that 'CA or remote' means (typically, and as here) 'in the US'; whereas 'our US and Taiwanese entities are hiring' doesn't have to mean that (though I appreciate it's a lot simpler) - you can be British or German or whatever, in that home country, and employed by a US entity.
Anyway, congrats; eagerly awaiting my UK pre-order!
Anyway, congrats; eagerly awaiting my UK pre-order!
From an Israeli: I wish you will set up an entity in Israel too! Or, more modestly, that you open ordering here.
Will you be opening up any Canada positions? I would love to be able to apply in say a year.
Maybe Linus can also present the idea to them. Since he's now a shareholder and possibly their most popular owner.
You might check out New Horizons. https://nhglobalpartners.com/
Disclaimer: I’ve not used them (and have no affiliation), just seems relevant.
You might want to look at Employer of Record services like Deel, if you are considering setting up country/regional entities just to enable hiring?
(No affiliation with Deel, but about to start a new remote job with them as EoR)
(No affiliation with Deel, but about to start a new remote job with them as EoR)
Definitely please at least consider hiring EU remote. Really exciting positions I'd even be willing to relocate for, but chances are the US visa system will make that too difficult.
Super cool! I wish you good luck! Firmware engineer definitely sounds great to me, hopefully the type of job I can steer my career towards in the future! :)
For the EU it would probably make more sense to hire remote freelance. Otherwise it is quite a hassle.
I hope you guys crush it, you can become the next Apple - the future of computing!
If they IPO they'll be evil like everyone else eventually. I hope they become the next developer choice, the market is definitely big enough.
I'd love to see a phone and eInk notebook (like Remarkable) in your future. If you can create an ecosystem of products, you'll capture much of the tech field.
Very excited for your raise!
Very excited for your raise!
Any distant plans to branch out to other consumer products beyond laptops?
My only wish is for an AMD version.
FYI, my corporate net wont allow me to access the site: Blocked TLDs
Is this the company that re-invented the PCMCIA slot, but completely proprietary?
Yep, but without the proprietary part. We have released reference designs under Creative Commons: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards
I think the recessed USB-C dongles are a fantastic idea. I'd love for this to become a standard feature on laptops.
Can miscellaneous third parties can create and sell their own Framework-compatible expansion modules?
Can other manufacturers make laptops with Framework-compatible expansion slots?
Can miscellaneous third parties can create and sell their own Framework-compatible expansion modules?
Can other manufacturers make laptops with Framework-compatible expansion slots?
A USB-C slot with publicly-available and open-source CAD and specs on GitHub (https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards) is basically the least proprietary format ever created.
Is USB-C proprietary now?
I think it's just normal USB-C dongles but installed in the chassis, isn't it?
Can something be open source and proprietary?
Some people use the word "proprietary" to mean "different" or "nonstandard" rather than "is someone else's property and costs money to use". It's a weird bit of semantic drift.
In the software world, this is usually described as "source-available", where the source is, well, available, but the license has restrictions such as not allowing commercial use.
Yes.
Example: https://github.com/commaai/openpilot
Example: https://github.com/commaai/openpilot
I really hope they stay true to their vision and that this means expanding it into other consumer product lines.