35% of Japanese people say they’ll ‘never travel’ again(cnbc.com)
cnbc.com
35% of Japanese people say they’ll ‘never travel’ again
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/19/dont-want-to-travel-many-in-japan-say-theyll-never-travel-again.html
126 comments
Going to Japan is a several thousand dollar commitment for the average American/European, is it not?
Yep, and a lot of people never visit Japan or Asia in general because of that.
That being said, it's all relative to income. Wages are low in Japan, and taxes are higher. Wages have also remained flat ever since the 90s when the bubble burst, and Japan hasn't experienced any inflation until this year. Meanwhile inflation has continued in Europe and north America, so travel has consistently gotten relatively more expensive to a Japanese person.
That being said, it's all relative to income. Wages are low in Japan, and taxes are higher. Wages have also remained flat ever since the 90s when the bubble burst, and Japan hasn't experienced any inflation until this year. Meanwhile inflation has continued in Europe and north America, so travel has consistently gotten relatively more expensive to a Japanese person.
True but the Euro/US dollar didn't devalue against the global currency market by 45%.
Just wondering if this has this made cheaper travelling to Japan as a foreigner (earning in USD)? Or have prices already adjusted?
I just came back from Tokyo. Everything seems cheap right now, especially food, but prices are starting to rise. For example Uniqlo has announced they will raise prices by quite a bit next year.
Imported goods have been adjusted already. Regular unleaded petrol is around 170 yen per litre around Tokyo.
Imported goods have been adjusted already. Regular unleaded petrol is around 170 yen per litre around Tokyo.
Gas prices are the last thing I worry about when travelling around in a foreign country, especially in Japan which has a great train network. Gas prices also have a bad correlation story with overall prices of living (accommodation and food, mainly), especially so when comparing across countries.
> Gas prices also have a bad correlation story ...
Perhaps only subjectively, depending on where you go.
Energy is typically the backbone of any modern country, and the price level being fixed by OPEC allows several comparisons that are accurate.
Perhaps only subjectively, depending on where you go.
Energy is typically the backbone of any modern country, and the price level being fixed by OPEC allows several comparisons that are accurate.
Apologies. It was the only "foreign" / "imported" thing I paid for while in Japan (I was road-tripping around the Fuji Five Lakes which does not have a train network at all.)
Accommodation and food prices seemed to be roughly around the same as before, but I did note some bottled soft drinks seemed to come in smaller sizes than before (450ml vs 500ml).
Checking my notes again just now, I did see the Nest Mini 2nd Gen for ¥2980, but that seems to be part of a Christmas promotion going on, so not a useful data point.
Accommodation and food prices seemed to be roughly around the same as before, but I did note some bottled soft drinks seemed to come in smaller sizes than before (450ml vs 500ml).
Checking my notes again just now, I did see the Nest Mini 2nd Gen for ¥2980, but that seems to be part of a Christmas promotion going on, so not a useful data point.
Yeah I see so that explains that. In my experience consumer electronics are also a bad indicator for overall expenses, at least in my country and in Japan they have been so. The majority of my expenses really goes into accommodation / rent, food and drinks, and public transport. And also books, which have become sort of cheap now especially when you order via amazon.jp (i.e. from the comfort and price level of your home) due to the devalued Yen.
for american context that's around $4.54/gallon at current exchange rate
Gas price isn't good metric for overall commodity price comparison because it's taxed and now subsidized by each country.
I was there in June and cost of living felt 30-40% cheaper than Germany, it was amazing (for me)
Yes! If you plan on spending a lot of money then this is a great time to visit
That's quite the contrast between the Japanese being known as feverish world travelers, and also borderline germaphobes. Who can blame them. Airports seem like ground zero for covid transmission, and who wants to be sick and quarantined in a foreign country during their whole vacation? No to mention potentially missing work?
They aren't really world travellers though. Only 23% hold a passport. Then there is the language barrier (low English skill), weak yen, perception of foreign countries as dangerous, and the inability to take a week or more of vacation time.
>perception of foreign countries as dangerous
Foreign countries are dangerous, compared to Japan. You can see it in all the national crime rates. Only a few places are as safe, such as Singapore, and some rich micronations in Europe.
Foreign countries are dangerous, compared to Japan. You can see it in all the national crime rates. Only a few places are as safe, such as Singapore, and some rich micronations in Europe.
Multiples of a very low number is still a pretty low number. That said, having returned fairly recently from an event in an unfamiliar US city with a reputation for being relatively dangerous (Detroit), I'll say that I didn't feel very comfortable in spite of it probably being mostly safe enough objectively. So it's understandable that an obvious tourist who doesn't speak the language at all in a US or European city might feel at risk.
With America, it entirely depends on where you go. Some parts of a single city might be dangerous, and other parts nearby much less so. Detroit has a bad reputation, but isn't unsafe everyhwere.
That said, every place in the US is generally less safe than many other countries just because of the usage of cars, and their typical high speeds compared to other places. Over 30k people die in the US every year in car crashes. Usually, people think of crime when the word "unsafe" is used, but they forget all the danger with cars.
That said, every place in the US is generally less safe than many other countries just because of the usage of cars, and their typical high speeds compared to other places. Over 30k people die in the US every year in car crashes. Usually, people think of crime when the word "unsafe" is used, but they forget all the danger with cars.
Switzerland and Denmark are not micronations but are comparatively safe or safer.
They're not micronations but they're tiny compared to Japan. The two of them combined have less than half the population of Tokyo.
>low English skill
As a native English speaker, especially if you travel mostly to Europe or generally urban/tourist track areas elsewhere, it's pretty easy to get the impression that an at least minimally resourceful and adaptable person can generally get by even without English-speaking guides and other travel resources. But that's not really true for a lot of people in other countries, especially if their languages don't use Roman script and they don't really know any foreign languages.
As a native English speaker, especially if you travel mostly to Europe or generally urban/tourist track areas elsewhere, it's pretty easy to get the impression that an at least minimally resourceful and adaptable person can generally get by even without English-speaking guides and other travel resources. But that's not really true for a lot of people in other countries, especially if their languages don't use Roman script and they don't really know any foreign languages.
I'm an American, native English speaker, no real other languages at a conversational level other than some High-School Spanish and a couple hundred words of Korean due to marriage. The further you get away from areas with familiar scripts, language cognates, and speakers, the more lost one can feel very quickly. Parts of Hungary, for example, were quite difficult even though they use Latin script, are European, and usually have lots of English speakers around.
One of the things I found that made Japan remarkable was how easy it was to get around as a non-Japanese speaker. Until you end up off the mainline tourist bits, then things can get quickly pretty dicey. I don't think the inverse is true for the average Japanese person in even the most tourist friendly spots elsewhere. Everywhere is opaque, and there aren't enough Japanese speaking tourists to make it worthwhile to add it to all of the signage and menus to make it work out.
One of the things I found that made Japan remarkable was how easy it was to get around as a non-Japanese speaker. Until you end up off the mainline tourist bits, then things can get quickly pretty dicey. I don't think the inverse is true for the average Japanese person in even the most tourist friendly spots elsewhere. Everywhere is opaque, and there aren't enough Japanese speaking tourists to make it worthwhile to add it to all of the signage and menus to make it work out.
Their education system is quite poorly suited to teaching a foreign language effectively (as with any other), but there is also this very low exposure to English (or any other foreign language) due to the abundance of translated material.
Not just translated, but presumably dubbed?
I have some eastern euro relatives that owe their English skill (moreso vocab than grammar) to local-language subtitled TV/movies (too poor to dub).
I have some eastern euro relatives that owe their English skill (moreso vocab than grammar) to local-language subtitled TV/movies (too poor to dub).
> I have some eastern euro relatives that owe their English skill (moreso vocab than grammar) to local-language subtitled TV/movies (too poor to dub).
Can confirm, it was the same for me and many of my peers when growing up (and video games for those that partook). However today everything is dubbed on TV, your only chance of subtitles to learn is on new releases in the cinemas.
Can confirm, it was the same for me and many of my peers when growing up (and video games for those that partook). However today everything is dubbed on TV, your only chance of subtitles to learn is on new releases in the cinemas.
Just one of the many reasons subs are superior.
None of that sounds any different than the US really…
What percentage of Americans hold a passport? I'd guess it's similar.
Closer to 45 or 50% of Americans. 152 million valid passports in 2022 [0] vs 333 million people[1], of which ~93% are citizens [2]. The “Americans don’t have passports” idea seems to mostly be a holdover from the early 2000’s [3].
[0]: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/about-us/reports-...
[1]: https://www.census.gov/popclock/
[2]: https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-by-ci...
[3]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42586638.amp
[0]: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/about-us/reports-...
[1]: https://www.census.gov/popclock/
[2]: https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-by-ci...
[3]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42586638.amp
"The pace of growth accelerated further in January 2007 when U.S. citizens traveling by air between the U.S. and Canada, Mexico, Central and South America, the Caribbean, and Bermuda were required to have a valid passport. Previously, it was possible for them to enter those countries without one"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/01/11/the-sh...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/01/11/the-sh...
It was probably accurate at the time; but with the recent push to require passports for domestic travel, it's natural that the US has seen an increase in the number of people getting one.
No, I think the thing that really changed things was when Canada and Mexico started requiring passports for US Citizens. Before that, Americans could just drive across the border. Lots of Americans don't travel overseas, but go to Canada/Mexico frequently, especially if they live near the border.
When was it required to have a passport for domestic travel? I think everyone just uses a driver's license.
In theory, Any Day Now, you will be required to have a RealID (tm) to board a fight. Of course, the deadline has been pushed back yet again.
Not all drivers licenses meet that criteria, but a passport does.
Not all drivers licenses meet that criteria, but a passport does.
> you will be required to have a RealID to board a fight.
Which law says that?
It is possible to fly domestic without ID. I did it twice and TSA had me sign a form which basically self-declared that I am not a problem.
The ID check is to make it difficult to resell frequent flier award travel. So the TSA ID-checkers are the airline's revenue helpers.
Last summer I put a bunch of transparent tape over the picture on my passport to see what would happen with TSA. The TSA lady asked me to peel it off. That was going slowly so she called a supervisor who quickly waved me through.
Which law says that?
It is possible to fly domestic without ID. I did it twice and TSA had me sign a form which basically self-declared that I am not a problem.
The ID check is to make it difficult to resell frequent flier award travel. So the TSA ID-checkers are the airline's revenue helpers.
Last summer I put a bunch of transparent tape over the picture on my passport to see what would happen with TSA. The TSA lady asked me to peel it off. That was going slowly so she called a supervisor who quickly waved me through.
I have flown without government ID--somehow lost my license between the car and the airport door. Unclear that will remain the case once RealID requirement goes into effect or at least to what degree it will be at the whim of a TSA supervisor.
Not everyone has a driver's license.
Every state (I assume) will issue a state ID that is not a driver's license.
Just because it's available doesn't mean everyone has one.
According to this infographic from the State Department [1], in 2019 44.5% of US citizens had passports (146 million valid passports in circulation). That rose to over 150 million in 2022 [2] but I can't find a percentage.
For non-citizens the numbers are even higher and they're not evenly distributed by state. Last I checked almost two thirds of Californians had valid passports, whereas states like Arkansas were more in line with the Japanese rate.
[1] https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/travel/CA-By-the-Number...
[2] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/about-us/reports-...
For non-citizens the numbers are even higher and they're not evenly distributed by state. Last I checked almost two thirds of Californians had valid passports, whereas states like Arkansas were more in line with the Japanese rate.
[1] https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/travel/CA-By-the-Number...
[2] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/about-us/reports-...
37% of American adults have passports. [0]
[0]: https://today.yougov.com/topics/travel/articles-reports/2021...
[0]: https://today.yougov.com/topics/travel/articles-reports/2021...
The number is above 50% according to gov data
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/about-us/reports-...
Edit, it took me so long to post this I was beaten to it by 12 minutes.
Edit, it took me so long to post this I was beaten to it by 12 minutes.
Interesting that polling data is different from State Department issuance data. I wonder what the difference is?
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/about-us/reports-...
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/about-us/reports-...
It's legal to have two US passports.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/have-pa...
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/have-pa...
For many years I had two US passports; my civilian Blue and my official Maroon. Not quite the same as that link, but there are reasons.
For a while my family of four had seven passports, though three of those would be counted for Japan.
For a while my family of four had seven passports, though three of those would be counted for Japan.
I have to believe that's in the noise. It's for some very specific purposes and, as I recall, when I looked it up at one point for no particular reason, it was fairly burdensome to do.
Perhaps, but the passport cards aren't at all difficult or rare; you can apply for both in the same form.
> 21,995,760 (includes 3,361,037 passport cards)
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-pa...
> 21,995,760 (includes 3,361,037 passport cards)
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-pa...
Fair enough. I forgot that you could apply to get both (which basically gives you a spare federal photo ID which is also good for entering Canada or Mexico). I have a Global Entry card so I didn't bother.
Not sure what the other stats are counting as passports and if they're double-counting or not.
You can also get two passport books--basically for visiting countries that may do visa stamps and which won't admit people with the "wrong" visa stamp--which is what I was talking about.
Not sure what the other stats are counting as passports and if they're double-counting or not.
You can also get two passport books--basically for visiting countries that may do visa stamps and which won't admit people with the "wrong" visa stamp--which is what I was talking about.
I think a bigger reason for having multi US passports is how much of a black hole sending your passport to a foreign embassy for a visa can take.
A common problem for those that do training/sales around the world for short trips.
Sometimes quite amazing how long an embassy can take when it’s one of the country’s big industries you’re heading to to train them on the expensive thing they surely want to maintain…
A common problem for those that do training/sales around the world for short trips.
Sometimes quite amazing how long an embassy can take when it’s one of the country’s big industries you’re heading to to train them on the expensive thing they surely want to maintain…
Although I'm not sure the degree to which getting multiple passports plays into this. Maybe it's easier to get multiple passports these days.
Pre-pandemic, I canceled a couple of trips to India for visa issues--wouldn't get back in time for other trips--although my understanding is the situation has improved.
Pre-pandemic, I canceled a couple of trips to India for visa issues--wouldn't get back in time for other trips--although my understanding is the situation has improved.
Some of the purposes I remember were:
- When needing a passport while the other passport was in visa processing
- When needing to travel to a country A that denies entry based on having a passport stamp from country B. Like Azerbaijan/Armenia and Israel/Some Arab countries.
- When needing a passport while the other passport was in visa processing
- When needing to travel to a country A that denies entry based on having a passport stamp from country B. Like Azerbaijan/Armenia and Israel/Some Arab countries.
Passport cards are now more readily available since state DMVs can process them as part of the RealID initiative. They're cheaper than a proper passport but I would venture many passport holders have one for convenience.
A bit of googling suggests you can have 3 or 4, but I can’t find a US government source on that.
Wouldn't be surprising. Up to two normal passport books, an additional passport card, and a special issuance one (diplomatic, military). Can't use the special ones for personal travel so you'd need both forms.
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We're talking about Japan. Not everything has to be about America.
I'm clearly wrong, judging from the responses, but my point in bringing it up was that Americans somehow show up around the world even though there are huge groups of us who never leave even their own state.
What I'm personally annoyed about is the "but what about..." conversations. To me these are quite annoying and derail the conversation. There are proper ways to bring up comparisons. For example "I wonder if other countries have similarly low passport rates?" There's also the aspect that a lot of conversations end up being particularly Americentric. But let's remember that America doesn't have to be brought into every conversation. It isn't helpful. In particular here it just seemed like you wanted to shit on America. There's plenty of reasons to do so, but this was just out of the blue. It is common, but that doesn't mean it is acceptable behavior.
I think the idea of Japanese being avid travellers was something from the 80's when their economy was booming (article also mentions 70's). Recently/until Covid hit, if you saw a large group of East Asian tourists, they'd most likely be Chinese.
Yes, the throngs of Japanese tourists around the world ended in the 1990s with the downturn of their economy. It had nothing to do with health concerns. Strange that it is being talked about as a recent thing.
The last decade or so has seen throngs of PRC tourists, seemingly less concerned with photo-documenting the world than with seeking out brand name merchandise.
I don't think germophobia is an adequate explanation for increased reluctance to travel, at least for the Japanese. For one thing, they tend to be more influenced by the risk of enduring any kind of hassles in travel, which have increased dramatically since 9/11. For another thing, the shine of popular destinations has worn off somewhat in the last few years. I've heard from talking to/about university students in South Korea that the heavily negative social news about the USA has caused travel there to lose much of its appeal.
The last decade or so has seen throngs of PRC tourists, seemingly less concerned with photo-documenting the world than with seeking out brand name merchandise.
I don't think germophobia is an adequate explanation for increased reluctance to travel, at least for the Japanese. For one thing, they tend to be more influenced by the risk of enduring any kind of hassles in travel, which have increased dramatically since 9/11. For another thing, the shine of popular destinations has worn off somewhat in the last few years. I've heard from talking to/about university students in South Korea that the heavily negative social news about the USA has caused travel there to lose much of its appeal.
This. A large number of businesses which built out around "Japanese spoken here" swung to Manderin in the last 4-8 year window and a lot of that isn't coming back because of both Covid, and AU-CN trade/politics concerns. That said, there is a huge chinese mainland diaspora based in Australia this last decade, so I suspect family reunion will encourage more of this tourism/travel back, given time.
(Australia is 40% direct migrant, or children of migrants. There is often a lot of tension over which non-anglo community now has financial muscle, buys homes, sets cultural trends. It's been about Italy, The Balts, Greeks, Lebanese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Chinese. The New Zealanders mostly sailed under the radar until a recent government started cancelling residency visa left right and centre for crimes of one kind or another and ANZUS as a political belief in unity across the tasman sea died a bit.)
(Australia is 40% direct migrant, or children of migrants. There is often a lot of tension over which non-anglo community now has financial muscle, buys homes, sets cultural trends. It's been about Italy, The Balts, Greeks, Lebanese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Chinese. The New Zealanders mostly sailed under the radar until a recent government started cancelling residency visa left right and centre for crimes of one kind or another and ANZUS as a political belief in unity across the tasman sea died a bit.)
I think this is a misperception that doesn't really reflect the reality. One of my long-term clients is a large Japanese company and I work with a lot of Japanese people regularly + have been to Japan several times. In my experience there's a small percentage of Japanese people who really like to travel and these are the ones you see, so it seems like there's a more general trend than there is. The majority of Japanese people don't really seem to care all that much about international travel.
Selection bias. Those that work internationally and learnt English properly have a different attitude than those that stay, they usually spend enormous amount of effort learning the language because they don’t fit in or don’t want to.
I’ve traveled around with Japanese and they definitely appreciate cleanliness and politeness more than any others. I’ve had multiple Japanese people cry saying how lucky they are to have been born in Japan when they have a short stay in pretty well off countries.
This doesn’t mean that they can’t be dirty, I’ve seen bones for ramen cracked on the streets here. Just that they appreciate cleanliness a lot. I think red mold popping up everywhere all the time makes you more careful, at least I became more aware after moving here.
I’ve traveled around with Japanese and they definitely appreciate cleanliness and politeness more than any others. I’ve had multiple Japanese people cry saying how lucky they are to have been born in Japan when they have a short stay in pretty well off countries.
This doesn’t mean that they can’t be dirty, I’ve seen bones for ramen cracked on the streets here. Just that they appreciate cleanliness a lot. I think red mold popping up everywhere all the time makes you more careful, at least I became more aware after moving here.
That matches my experience too, and Japan has a pretty big population too so that small percentage who love to travel will still be a lot of people.
> who wants to be sick and quarantined in a foreign country
There's also the higher than normal risk of needing medical treatment in a country with either higher medical costs or lower healthcare quality.
In my country of birth, covid treatment is free* in state owned hospitals for citizens and non citizens. But it's not the case in other countries.
*Taxpayer funded
There's also the higher than normal risk of needing medical treatment in a country with either higher medical costs or lower healthcare quality.
In my country of birth, covid treatment is free* in state owned hospitals for citizens and non citizens. But it's not the case in other countries.
*Taxpayer funded
A number of countries have a sub-group that travel a huge amount, and a majority that rarely does.
Which is partly just wealth, but also just variation in how aware people are of the outside world. Few people are going to visit a country they have no interest in, and can't locate on a map.
Which is partly just wealth, but also just variation in how aware people are of the outside world. Few people are going to visit a country they have no interest in, and can't locate on a map.
Wait- if you are sick on your annual leave, is that not treated as sick leave in your country?
Not that I know of (UK here). I've never expected time back when I'll on paid leave anymore than is expect an employer to give me extra leave for being ill at the weekend. Maybe I've been missing out…
Are you German? I know in Germany it's treated that way - sick during vacation days? Then you're on sick leave, not vacation...
I’m in the US and have never heard of such a thing. If you’re sick on vacation then that’s not eligible for sick leave.
At my employer in the US, sick leave was drawn from your vacation days... hence very sick people always coming into the office to work.
That’s common. School teachers face the same problem. They don’t quality for sick leave until they’ve used up all their PTO first.
My father, a high school teacher, has some absurd >1000 day sick day balance right now. He keeps putting off retirement for some unknown reason despite complaining about how terrible the system is, and a common response from my siblings is "maybe you should just be sick for three years…"
I suspect this varies by state, but the idea that sick leave for teachers is lacking has never been a common theme for any of the teachers in my family.
I suspect this varies by state, but the idea that sick leave for teachers is lacking has never been a common theme for any of the teachers in my family.
There's been a general shift in the US from a system where large organizations had separate pools for sick time and vacation to a common PTO pool. But you still see organizations, either because of inertia or union contracts, still have the prior system in place. And, yeah, the traditional system tended to have more sick days than anyone would use outside of serious illness or injury although, as I recall, there usually wasn't carry-over.
The US is an exception though, since having any kind of leave at all is a gift of of the employer and not defined in law.
For the rest of the world, the idea that an employer can arbitrarily decide it is not possible for someone to be ill more than a certain number of days per year is bonkers.
For the rest of the world, the idea that an employer can arbitrarily decide it is not possible for someone to be ill more than a certain number of days per year is bonkers.
In the US these days, Paid Time Off is often a single pooled block for vacation/personal time/sick leave. (Although short term disability and long term disability are separate things if they exist.) But even if sick time were separate I wouldn't expect to be able to use it instead of vacation time if I got sick on vacation.
Not in Australia. My colleague is actually in Japan right now on annual leave sick with Covid.
Yes in Australia. Look up the labor laws they are required to change it to sick leave. I did it last year when I got Covid over Christmas.
Wow this is news to me thanks
Apparently you can, not that I ever have:
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/library/K600...
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/library/K600...
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Nope in many companies.
That's quite clickbaity headline without saying WHY, article doesn't really provide some statistical explanation, closest (non-anecdotal) explanation I could find is:
> “The language barrier and the lack of consecutive holidays are some of the reasons why domestic travel is preferred,” said Furuya, adding that “work environments that make it difficult to take paid vacations” is another factor.
Also:
> In 2019, only 23% of Japanese citizens held passports — the lowest rate among G7 nations, according to Nikkei Asia.
Whole survey seems extremely shady, where it presents 45% respondents inteding to travel next year and 35% intend to never travel again, those are quite big extremes to me, where 80% surveyed either claim to travel next year or never and only 20% are somewhere in between. It's also misisng data how these numbers changed over years to provide some context, obviously only interesting data would be from 2019 and prior since hardly anyone wanted to travel under COVID restrictions conditions risking ruined vacation.
> “The language barrier and the lack of consecutive holidays are some of the reasons why domestic travel is preferred,” said Furuya, adding that “work environments that make it difficult to take paid vacations” is another factor.
Also:
> In 2019, only 23% of Japanese citizens held passports — the lowest rate among G7 nations, according to Nikkei Asia.
Whole survey seems extremely shady, where it presents 45% respondents inteding to travel next year and 35% intend to never travel again, those are quite big extremes to me, where 80% surveyed either claim to travel next year or never and only 20% are somewhere in between. It's also misisng data how these numbers changed over years to provide some context, obviously only interesting data would be from 2019 and prior since hardly anyone wanted to travel under COVID restrictions conditions risking ruined vacation.
I wonder if the ageing population combined with weakening currency are big factors here.
30% of Japanese people are over the age of 70.
Those over 70 generally have far more time to travel than the rest of us!
Less so in Japan vs. other developed countries: https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h01055/
My main point is that they make "never" statements more easily because they have less time ahead of them.
My main point is that they make "never" statements more easily because they have less time ahead of them.
Fair point, though if I were 70ish in Japan, knowing my life expectancy probably meant I had another good 15 or so years to live, it's hard to imagine making such a statement.
But less energy (which is why cruises and similar are often chosen by older people, everything is organised and you're ferried from location to location) and often less money.
Less earnings sure, but not having a mortgage to pay off any longer helps, as does not having kids to tow around and find accommodation for etc. etc.
At any rate there doesn't seem to be convincing evidence that people engage in less international travel over the age of 70 (certainly not for the U.S.) - they may travel less often, but typically for longer periods (but yes, as you say, more often in groups incl. packaged tours).
This once again demonstrates that China and America have two of the most oddly similar populations on the planet
not really surprising regarding travel considering both these countries are infamous for lack of paid vacation, meanwhile in many (most?) European countries you have 4-5 weeks paid vacation per year by law, in China you will be lucky to have week (I think it was like 5 days if you worked longer than 1-2 years for employer when I worked there, but in reality it was still difficult to get it), which is why they do whole nonsense with merging weekends with holidays and than making up for lost days, so your net benefit from vacation is pretty much zero if you count disrupted weekends around "holidays" which are PITA to travel anyway because whole China travels at same time instead of spread across year with regular paid vacation
> I don’t talk to them about why I don’t travel, not to burst their bubble or to, you know, be the party pooper amidst all of this celebration
Does the act of traveling, the waste of my little slice of airplane fuel, maintenance of airplanes and all the staff and food handling, use more resources than someone paying for tourism with buying all kinds of services to help employ local hotel workers and their waste of the endless tourist rides and destinations.
Come to think of it, he might be onto something. Perhaps only long-term traveling with minimal impact would be more beneficial to locals than the harm of the travel itself.
I wonder who is studying this stuff, who can teach me to have such strong affirmations has Mr. Chua does.
Does the act of traveling, the waste of my little slice of airplane fuel, maintenance of airplanes and all the staff and food handling, use more resources than someone paying for tourism with buying all kinds of services to help employ local hotel workers and their waste of the endless tourist rides and destinations.
Come to think of it, he might be onto something. Perhaps only long-term traveling with minimal impact would be more beneficial to locals than the harm of the travel itself.
I wonder who is studying this stuff, who can teach me to have such strong affirmations has Mr. Chua does.
Nowadays there are too many cheaper entertainments via internet, so touring isn't attracting much for not richer people
One factor that doesn't get mentioned often is the global hostility towards East Asians due to the pandemic and Chinese politics (Japanese/Korean unfortunately get lumped into that bucket)
> global hostility
I live on Europe and there’s a lot of Asian shops and restaurants around in my city - I’ve never noticed any hostility. Before that I lived in Singapore, I have a bunch of friends who travelled to Europe (after 2020) and I’ve not heard of anything like that from them as well. So not sure, is that an US issue? It’s not “global” if yes.
I live on Europe and there’s a lot of Asian shops and restaurants around in my city - I’ve never noticed any hostility. Before that I lived in Singapore, I have a bunch of friends who travelled to Europe (after 2020) and I’ve not heard of anything like that from them as well. So not sure, is that an US issue? It’s not “global” if yes.
Are you East Asian? This is a fairly common experience in Europe
As someone who lived in Japan for 10+ years, I feel Japanese tourism is "consume product" style packaged boredom.
The stuff that is nice (easy train trips in and out of Tokyo, neighbourhood grocery stores, safety, etc..) are not relevant to tourists. The stuff that is touristy is also very samey. This is not very generous, but my view of local tourism boils down to a giant, beautifully-built temple - with Coca-Cola (TM) vending machines and cheap plastic junk for sale. Don't forget to go into a coffee shop and spend 800 yen just to have a place to sit (only to have no seats available).
With heavy crowding in places like Kyoto, and expensive lodging everywhere (rooms are priced per-person; not per room), it's hard to enjoy Japan as a domestic tourist. Having some historical context about Japan might make it better, but really, you can only see so much cracked concrete without getting bored.
Ski Trips, Onsens, and quality eats are great, but they just aren't worth the price of a plane ticket to Japan. As a domestic tourist, you can probably access the later two wherever you live.
The issue becomes worse for a potential international tourist in Japan. You have the language barrier, the length of trips (Korea is tolerable, but Singapore/HK/China/etc.. are long flights), and the ongoing loss of value of the Japanese yen. Between all this bad news, you also have an aging population who is not going to take the risk of catching Covid while abroad.
With all of the above, I can totally understand why someone would not find much value to traveling domestically or internationally from Japan.
In my case, the only value I derive is from visiting family or friends. I would probably never go again if I didn't have family there.
The stuff that is nice (easy train trips in and out of Tokyo, neighbourhood grocery stores, safety, etc..) are not relevant to tourists. The stuff that is touristy is also very samey. This is not very generous, but my view of local tourism boils down to a giant, beautifully-built temple - with Coca-Cola (TM) vending machines and cheap plastic junk for sale. Don't forget to go into a coffee shop and spend 800 yen just to have a place to sit (only to have no seats available).
With heavy crowding in places like Kyoto, and expensive lodging everywhere (rooms are priced per-person; not per room), it's hard to enjoy Japan as a domestic tourist. Having some historical context about Japan might make it better, but really, you can only see so much cracked concrete without getting bored.
Ski Trips, Onsens, and quality eats are great, but they just aren't worth the price of a plane ticket to Japan. As a domestic tourist, you can probably access the later two wherever you live.
The issue becomes worse for a potential international tourist in Japan. You have the language barrier, the length of trips (Korea is tolerable, but Singapore/HK/China/etc.. are long flights), and the ongoing loss of value of the Japanese yen. Between all this bad news, you also have an aging population who is not going to take the risk of catching Covid while abroad.
With all of the above, I can totally understand why someone would not find much value to traveling domestically or internationally from Japan.
In my case, the only value I derive is from visiting family or friends. I would probably never go again if I didn't have family there.
I'm confused. The article is talking about Japanese people travelling elsrhwre, but you're talking about how bring a tourist inside Japan sucks?
"Never Travel" strikes me as "Not domestically or internationally", and I feel there are good reasons for both that might not be obvious.
It's somewhat unclear from the article. The survey result suggests that "never travel" could mean either domestically or internationally. But the rest of the article seems to focus on doing domestic travel instead of international travel.
> The survey asked about “any leisure travel” and did not differentiate between domestic or international travel plans
That's different than saying "Not domestically or internationally"
That's different than saying "Not domestically or internationally"
From the article:
"The survey asked about “any leisure travel” and did not differentiate between domestic or international travel plans, said Lindsey Roeschke, a travel and hospitality analyst at Morning Consult."
"The survey asked about “any leisure travel” and did not differentiate between domestic or international travel plans, said Lindsey Roeschke, a travel and hospitality analyst at Morning Consult."
I think it's talking about both:
> The survey asked about “any leisure travel” and did not differentiate between domestic or international travel plans
> The survey asked about “any leisure travel” and did not differentiate between domestic or international travel plans
It's such a odd take to me, but I guess I'm an expat, not a local. And I haven't lived there long enough to get bored of it. I've lived in Japan (only 2 years), but the family loves Japan, and we all love going back. Though maybe we lean otaku on some things like Anime...
I mean there's just so much variety of stuff to do in Tokyo alone - for adults there's live music bars of all genres, for the fam: manga + book stores (western alongside Japanese), speciality stores that don't exist almost anywhere else, an huge variety of food places (like there are so many world class Ramen, Soba, Sushi, Teppanyaki joints and I haven't even discussed the world class foreign food joints), karaoke, catching a Sumo tournament, the newish Kabuki theatre in Ginza, spend time wandering the side streets of Shinjuku, or Shibuya, or Shimokitazawa, ... and I haven't even started on the temples & museums, parks, amusement parks, etc. Or how great Osaka is, etc.
Temples, I agree, temples are samey, so I wouldn't do more than 1 in a trip, and usually off the packed places (like Nikko or Nara are better than Kyoto IMO unless you go to Kyoto off season and take a chance on the weather).
I mean there's just so much variety of stuff to do in Tokyo alone - for adults there's live music bars of all genres, for the fam: manga + book stores (western alongside Japanese), speciality stores that don't exist almost anywhere else, an huge variety of food places (like there are so many world class Ramen, Soba, Sushi, Teppanyaki joints and I haven't even discussed the world class foreign food joints), karaoke, catching a Sumo tournament, the newish Kabuki theatre in Ginza, spend time wandering the side streets of Shinjuku, or Shibuya, or Shimokitazawa, ... and I haven't even started on the temples & museums, parks, amusement parks, etc. Or how great Osaka is, etc.
Temples, I agree, temples are samey, so I wouldn't do more than 1 in a trip, and usually off the packed places (like Nikko or Nara are better than Kyoto IMO unless you go to Kyoto off season and take a chance on the weather).
I disagree. As someone not into anime, Japan is very boring asides from their expat community. Anime is forced everywhere and it’s annoying to see them everywhere especially when it’s unnecessary. Even some simple signs need cute 2d characters when in the US we would just write text unaccompanied by anything else.
What’s the point of wandering side streets? It’s a city. It’s a city whose streets highly resemble the streets of Seoul.
What’s the point of wandering side streets? It’s a city. It’s a city whose streets highly resemble the streets of Seoul.
Anime is part of the national heritage. I guess it is sort of like how Americans put the Stars and Stripes everywhere unnecessarily.
“What’s the point of wandering side streets?”
Because exploration is fun? Especially in Japan, though sure, Seoul (and HK, and a few dozen cities in Europe, and …) is also interesting to wander.
“What’s the point of wandering side streets?”
Because exploration is fun? Especially in Japan, though sure, Seoul (and HK, and a few dozen cities in Europe, and …) is also interesting to wander.
It was my experience that Japanese citizens spent a lot of time travelling Japan, instead of overseas. As an Australian we have a notoriety for overseas travel, but I think even in Australia the same is true. Most people still travel locally, not overseas.
I think the enlightened wanderlusting traveller is rare in general, but you find many of them when that's what you do so you get the impression everyone wants that. I think most people want the tourist package, if they can afford to travel at all that is.
I think the enlightened wanderlusting traveller is rare in general, but you find many of them when that's what you do so you get the impression everyone wants that. I think most people want the tourist package, if they can afford to travel at all that is.
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I do know SOME do not want Citizens to travel https://voxeu.org/article/trade-and-travel-time-epidemics in general dreaming to pushing people to a scenario like the recent french movie Virtual Revolution. Personally I do not want to travel with public means AT ALL.
I do want to being able to move with MY means because public (private) transports have lowered their quality and reliability below the acceptability threshold. I'm tired of airlines shrinking seats, trains more and more designed to be human meat carriers and so on. I'm tired of crappy crapware platforms designed to left even vector employees powerless seeing a crappy screen and so on.
I do favor punishing the management of such companies hard enough their ancestors do not even dream imitating their choices.
I do want to being able to move with MY means because public (private) transports have lowered their quality and reliability below the acceptability threshold. I'm tired of airlines shrinking seats, trains more and more designed to be human meat carriers and so on. I'm tired of crappy crapware platforms designed to left even vector employees powerless seeing a crappy screen and so on.
I do favor punishing the management of such companies hard enough their ancestors do not even dream imitating their choices.
What does this have to do with Japan? Japanese airlines and trains are fantastic.
I do not know public transports in Japan but in UE they evolve always toward worse and worse services...
What's "UE"? I've never even heard of that. The article is about Japan, not some other obscure country. Public transit in Japan is excellent.
Sorry EU in English, in all southern European languages is UE (Unione Europea, Union Européenne, Unión Europea, União Europeia etc).
Going to the US or Europe is a several thousand dollar commitment for the average Japanese person