Microsoft's new foldable keyboard(blogs.microsoft.com)
blogs.microsoft.com
Microsoft's new foldable keyboard
http://blogs.microsoft.com/firehose/2015/03/02/get-more-done-anywhere-anytime-on-virtually-any-device-with-the-new-universal-foldable-keyboard/
250 comments
Smartphones and tablets are at least 15 years old too. Bill Gates used to run around CES telling everyone that tablets were the future.
Anyway, for the "Post PC era" to truly take off, we're going to need portable wireless keyboards that "just work". Tablets are going to replace desktops for most people, once we figure out how to attach better input devices. The Microsoft keyboard does appear to be a big step in the right direction, if it actually works.
Anyway, for the "Post PC era" to truly take off, we're going to need portable wireless keyboards that "just work". Tablets are going to replace desktops for most people, once we figure out how to attach better input devices. The Microsoft keyboard does appear to be a big step in the right direction, if it actually works.
Does "post PC era" even have a meaning to anyone other than tech pundits? Is tablet hardware really better, or do people just prefer the software experience? In a world of commodity hardware that distinction is quite important. People will buy an IPad because it is easy to use and will reject the Windows 8 laptop because it is hard to use and ignore the practicality of the hardware.
It's both the hardware and the software. For $500, you can get a high quality, well designed piece of hardware tightly coupled with the software and it does everything you need it to do. If the iPad breaks, throw it out and get a new one. But chances are, it won't break (that is, unless you break it).
Meanwhile for $500, you can get a cheap plastic laptop that will break on its own through normal wear and tear. It runs an OS that is far more advanced than what you need. The OS needs maintenance, and you need to pay attention to what you're doing. It's super hard to keep a computer running. You might not think it is, but look at the existence of Geek Squad and how many people are afraid of their computer, or can't do simple things. But they're using iPads like an expert.
That's post-PC. You and I will keep our x86 systems with massive globs of RAM and terrabytes of hard drive space because we need them. And the rest of the world will finally get to use their computing devices the way they want to use them for a change.
Meanwhile for $500, you can get a cheap plastic laptop that will break on its own through normal wear and tear. It runs an OS that is far more advanced than what you need. The OS needs maintenance, and you need to pay attention to what you're doing. It's super hard to keep a computer running. You might not think it is, but look at the existence of Geek Squad and how many people are afraid of their computer, or can't do simple things. But they're using iPads like an expert.
That's post-PC. You and I will keep our x86 systems with massive globs of RAM and terrabytes of hard drive space because we need them. And the rest of the world will finally get to use their computing devices the way they want to use them for a change.
In general I think building operating systems is difficult and sooner or later you get a bad apple (no pun intended). Apple may have avoided this but it is common on Windows and some Android devices to have strange issues that are never really resolved. As we pile platform on top of platform this kind of emergent property becomes more likely. By simplifying things you just delay this for a few years before the bloat starts to pile up sooner or later somewhere in the stack.
We could easily see a return to more traditional hardware that gets back to simplicity. I would love to see affordable SoC laptops with discrete graphics running something like Ubuntu and Steam. This would be an amazing combination of reliable OS, high quality free software, and access to entertainment. Selling a device with good software included should be a selling point instead of tricking people into an app store pyramid scheme.
We could easily see a return to more traditional hardware that gets back to simplicity. I would love to see affordable SoC laptops with discrete graphics running something like Ubuntu and Steam. This would be an amazing combination of reliable OS, high quality free software, and access to entertainment. Selling a device with good software included should be a selling point instead of tricking people into an app store pyramid scheme.
In general I do agree with you. But I have to point out that even Apple has been facing this type of issue recently.
E.g. The Wi-Fi issue in iOS 8. Already on 8.2 and not fixed for many people.
Is this inescapable?
E.g. The Wi-Fi issue in iOS 8. Already on 8.2 and not fixed for many people.
Is this inescapable?
I guess this can be the case but at least in my totally-unscientific anecdotal experience, it's not quite there yet for everyone. About 3-4 years ago I bought an iPad 2 for around $650 because I was going to be traveling a lot and wanted something reasonably capable to take along while not adding a lot of weight to my backpack. Maybe 6 months later, my girlfriend wanted a lighter laptop to replace her old Dell but she didn't have a lot to spend at the time. I spent about $500 on a fairly low powered (i3, 4GB RAM, Intel GPU, touch screen, etc) Asus laptop because it was very light and reasonably capable and well built for such a low cost.
Today, that iPad has cracks in the screen from the minor bumps and scuffs it's taken over the years. After several iOS updates it's become slow and tedious to use. Wifi reception is terrible so I often have trouble using it when sitting in bed, exactly one floor above my home router. Opening more than one or two tabs in the web browser causes each one to reload when switching and overall performance is barely acceptable.
Contrast this with the less expensive Asus laptop. My girlfriend still uses it as her sole personal computer and runs Office apps, connects to her work VPN for access to company resources, uses it to watch movies on Netflix, browses the web, and plays casual games. It runs just as well as it ever did and while there are also minor scuffs on the housing, the screen has no sort of cracking and the touch input still works as it always has.
I think that a big part of this has been how iPads and the more "appliance" style tablets have gotten more capable but so have more traditional notebook and desktop computers. Likewise, the performance you get from budget/entry class computers continues to go up even as hardware stays cheap.
At some point, the whole "post-PC" thing will happen as the traditionally "non-PC" devices continue to become more capable up to the point where they can do 90% of the average PC user's tasks. But then, aside from the inability to customize or upgrade, what makes them not PCs?
Today, that iPad has cracks in the screen from the minor bumps and scuffs it's taken over the years. After several iOS updates it's become slow and tedious to use. Wifi reception is terrible so I often have trouble using it when sitting in bed, exactly one floor above my home router. Opening more than one or two tabs in the web browser causes each one to reload when switching and overall performance is barely acceptable.
Contrast this with the less expensive Asus laptop. My girlfriend still uses it as her sole personal computer and runs Office apps, connects to her work VPN for access to company resources, uses it to watch movies on Netflix, browses the web, and plays casual games. It runs just as well as it ever did and while there are also minor scuffs on the housing, the screen has no sort of cracking and the touch input still works as it always has.
I think that a big part of this has been how iPads and the more "appliance" style tablets have gotten more capable but so have more traditional notebook and desktop computers. Likewise, the performance you get from budget/entry class computers continues to go up even as hardware stays cheap.
At some point, the whole "post-PC" thing will happen as the traditionally "non-PC" devices continue to become more capable up to the point where they can do 90% of the average PC user's tasks. But then, aside from the inability to customize or upgrade, what makes them not PCs?
Meanwhile, I bought an original iPad, and a first gen iPod Touch that my kids are still happily using today. My 19 year old daughter learned (via Youtube) how to replace iPod/iPad screens and has a small side business going...
Possibly, in that the PC was "open" while these new devices are more and more locked down.
Just look at Android. Now a days a app can't really get direct access to the filesystem. Everything has to go through the "media storage".
The way i see it, these "post PC" devices are Big Media's wet dream. Now they can get the DRM enforcement built in that before they had to attempt to "hack" in (Sony's rootkit, anyone?).
Just look at Android. Now a days a app can't really get direct access to the filesystem. Everything has to go through the "media storage".
The way i see it, these "post PC" devices are Big Media's wet dream. Now they can get the DRM enforcement built in that before they had to attempt to "hack" in (Sony's rootkit, anyone?).
> Tablets are going to replace desktops for most people, once we figure out how to attach better input devices.
That already exists, it's a netbook. Or worst case scenario, one of those netbooks with detachable screen.
That already exists, it's a netbook. Or worst case scenario, one of those netbooks with detachable screen.
I don't think so - my mum was trying to get a cheap-ish new replacement for her 5 year old 10" netbook last month. It's very very hard to do. Certainly when you compare the spec:price ratio of anything on the market today compared to a tablet + bluetooth keyboard.
Netbooks are being subsumed by laptops, as laptops get smaller. Several of the "ultrabooks" are thinner and lighter than my old Dell Mini 9. The 11" models are perfectly acceptable "netbooks", they just don't call them netbooks anymore because that was an indicator that it was kind of a crappy computer, but was small and cheap and good enough for browsing the web. The cost is getting closer to netbooks, as well, though I guess the really thin and light laptops are still pretty pricey...they will converge fully eventually.
In short, tablet has taken the place of the "crappy tiny laptop", and the modern good laptop has gotten closer to the size of the crappy tiny laptop without being crappy. The sweet spot for the netbook has shrunk to the point where it almost doesn't exist anymore, and thus there are no netbooks.
In short, tablet has taken the place of the "crappy tiny laptop", and the modern good laptop has gotten closer to the size of the crappy tiny laptop without being crappy. The sweet spot for the netbook has shrunk to the point where it almost doesn't exist anymore, and thus there are no netbooks.
And frankly, MS and Intel basically made it this way.
Both freaked when the netbook first hit. Intel because they could make for a passable citrix client and so undermine their lucrative ultraportable segment. MS because it was Linux on a off the shelf product.
So what we got was some very stringent spec requirements from the two to make a underperforming mini-laptop running Windows XP (remember that MS was trying to sell Vista at the time).
What looked like a interesting experimental market (one early model had a thumb sized touchpad sitting near the screen hinge rather than a touchpad below the keyboard) ended up another pile of rebranded clones.
Both freaked when the netbook first hit. Intel because they could make for a passable citrix client and so undermine their lucrative ultraportable segment. MS because it was Linux on a off the shelf product.
So what we got was some very stringent spec requirements from the two to make a underperforming mini-laptop running Windows XP (remember that MS was trying to sell Vista at the time).
What looked like a interesting experimental market (one early model had a thumb sized touchpad sitting near the screen hinge rather than a touchpad below the keyboard) ended up another pile of rebranded clones.
But even the 11" models cant replace tablets. Imagine a scenario, you are travelling in a train or a bus-you cant open the 11" laptop/netbook, while traveeling.
And as far as the debate about tablets replacing desktop goes, that might be possible when tablets get stronger/better processors
There are plenty of 2-in-1 Windows laptops where the tablet is completely detachable from the keyboard. Some are very popular, like the Asus Transformer T100 wiht a 10.1inch screen. (Yes, Asus launched an Android version years ago.)
There are other Windows laptops where the screen folds back to provide a slightly heavier tablet, like the Lenovo Yoga 2 series and the HP11 x360.
Windows 8.1 tablets can support USB keyboards and full-size screens. Hook them up to a expanison hub and they can support multiple screens. I wouldn't recommend one as a desktop replacement, but then, I wouldn't recommend a MacBook Air as a desktop replacement either.
There are other Windows laptops where the screen folds back to provide a slightly heavier tablet, like the Lenovo Yoga 2 series and the HP11 x360.
Windows 8.1 tablets can support USB keyboards and full-size screens. Hook them up to a expanison hub and they can support multiple screens. I wouldn't recommend one as a desktop replacement, but then, I wouldn't recommend a MacBook Air as a desktop replacement either.
Makes me wonder how well a updated Fujitsu U1010 would do today.
We used to have quite a few nice, small machines. The one of the Psion Series 5 was amazing for the size. I had an HP Windows CE machine that was only a little bigger and the keyboard was even better. Lack of USB, SD and Wi-Fi rather limits their usefulness nowadays ;-)
Errr... "The one of the Psion Series 5" should be "The keyboard of the Psion Series 5...". Sorry,
Why is an HP Stream (for example) not a cheap replacement for a 10-inch netbook? It's a lot faster, has better graphics, has a better screen resolution, and actually costs less.
the Asus X205 is amazing bang for the buck
I got some older model (no touch screen, dual-core and only 1GB of ram) and it is indeed amazing. Perfect for work anywhere, when you put a lightweight Linux distro on it.
If Linux or ChromeOS is an option, a Chromebook might do. Other than that it is indeed difficult to find anything.
Yeah i remember the UMPC push. Was way more interesting designs flying around back then. Now it is all "multitouch".
One example: http://www.tabletpcreview.com/tabletreview/samsung-q1-ultra-...
One example: http://www.tabletpcreview.com/tabletreview/samsung-q1-ultra-...
> Smartphones and tablets are at least 15 years old too. Bill Gates used to run around CES telling everyone that tablets were the future.
[citation needed]
[citation needed]
It was COMDEX in Las Vegas. He gave the keynote.
http://news.cnet.com/Gates-defends-PC-at-Comdex,-unveils-new...
http://news.microsoft.com/2001/11/11/gates-showcases-tablet-...
http://news.cnet.com/Gates-defends-PC-at-Comdex,-unveils-new...
http://news.microsoft.com/2001/11/11/gates-showcases-tablet-...
Thanks. Exactly what I was hoping for.
Totally worth the downvotes for asking.
You didn't get downvoted for asking. You got downvoted for the way you asked. [citation needed] is incredibly rude.
Respectfully, I don't think you'll find much sympathy here on HN with a reply in that vein, even from people who would agree with you.
I find it amusing that asking for source, using wikipedia's standard, is considered ”tone” of any sort, let alone a rude one.
No offense was intended in the grandparent.
No offense was intended in the grandparent.
I know I certainly consider that specific reply to be flippant, and I know there are others who do as well. I don't know if it's the general opinion of people on the Internet to view it as flippant, but at least on HN, the general culture is to not use Reddit-esque short-form replies, and to articulate a full response that uses your own words. Wikipedia isn't exactly known for being a welcoming community.
I think what sets it apart in my mind is the "needed". In a Wikipedia article aiming to be authoritative and correct it may very well be "needed", but in a HN comment it is not "needed", it is "requested". Perhaps even "humbly requested". And the conflation of those 2 words tend to make the requester come off as judgmental/abrasive.
Everyone gets the reference, but it's not really the same situation.
Everyone gets the reference, but it's not really the same situation.
It was just a matter of luck, try using [citation needed] with an argument the HN Community usually disagrees with (for ex. one which favors C or C++ over Rust or Go), and the results will be completely different.
Based on my own experiences with /r/programming and /r/startups, HN is very reasoned, respectful, and lacking in fanaticism in comparison. I think a lot of that has to do with the expectations that the moderators have established and their enforcement thereof. Though I don't necessarily agree with the mostly invisible way in which they do, I've never ran a site this big, so I don't really have the background necessary to argue on what is most effective.
Yes, it's not perfect, but nothing is, and that's not a good enough reason to give up on trying.
Yes, it's not perfect, but nothing is, and that's not a good enough reason to give up on trying.
In general HN is pretty centered, but there is always a slight bias, I don't complain about it, it is expected, there's no place without bias.
But when you play the devil's advocate you have to take a little bit of extra care in your wording, or at least, this is the pattern I have noticed when your argument disagrees with the consensus.
But when you play the devil's advocate you have to take a little bit of extra care in your wording, or at least, this is the pattern I have noticed when your argument disagrees with the consensus.
Ok, we changed the url from http://time.com/3728441/microsoft-keyboard-folding/ to the Microsoft page.
>probably a pretty mediocre typing experience.
It's obviously no mechanical keyboard, but it's a full sized keyboard none the less, and it allows you to enter large amounts of text into your smartphone much easier than what was previously offered.
I would call that a major improvement in the keyboard arena, not a mediocre typing experience.
The limited rate of data entry was what pulled me away from owning a smartphone. I have a dumbphone and I use my laptop for all my serious work. It's nearly impossible to write code on any smartphone out there as of yesterday. But today I would consider getting a smartphone to actually work on. Probably with an HDMI output on it, too. Just in case.
It's obviously no mechanical keyboard, but it's a full sized keyboard none the less, and it allows you to enter large amounts of text into your smartphone much easier than what was previously offered.
I would call that a major improvement in the keyboard arena, not a mediocre typing experience.
The limited rate of data entry was what pulled me away from owning a smartphone. I have a dumbphone and I use my laptop for all my serious work. It's nearly impossible to write code on any smartphone out there as of yesterday. But today I would consider getting a smartphone to actually work on. Probably with an HDMI output on it, too. Just in case.
I still prefer when the phone has an integrated keyboard [1]. Less battery drain due to bluetooth, more convenient since you don't loose screen real estate, and your muscle memory develops in no time.
Too bad the marked decided they didn't want this form factor anymore.
[1] http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/wireless/detail-p...
Too bad the marked decided they didn't want this form factor anymore.
[1] http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/wireless/detail-p...
I know what you mean, I have tried to code on my phone far too often!
Wireless keyboard for smart phones aren't new, though. This one is convenient, but you can use existing wireless keyboard with just about any iOS device: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202041
Wireless keyboard for smart phones aren't new, though. This one is convenient, but you can use existing wireless keyboard with just about any iOS device: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202041
The TextBlade looks fascinating. There were only demos of it running on iOS and Android devices, but I hope it can be compatible with OSX, Windows, and Linux too.
It's bluetooth so it's compatible with any bluetooth capable OS.
Is all the required software onboard the device itself? I thought it was using some kind of paired application to handle processing the input.
edit:
>With the TextBlade, WayTools can deliver over-the-air updates to keep firmware up to date, something that's not possible with most keyboards. The TextBlade will have more functions six months after it's released than it does today. For example, one upcoming update will add multi-device support, and that update is coming a few weeks after launch.
Source: http://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/06/hands-on-with-the-textbl...
So it seems that there is enough brain inside the device to handle it all, if I'm reading that correctly. Interesting.
edit:
>With the TextBlade, WayTools can deliver over-the-air updates to keep firmware up to date, something that's not possible with most keyboards. The TextBlade will have more functions six months after it's released than it does today. For example, one upcoming update will add multi-device support, and that update is coming a few weeks after launch.
Source: http://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/06/hands-on-with-the-textbl...
So it seems that there is enough brain inside the device to handle it all, if I'm reading that correctly. Interesting.
The keyboard can't get OTA updates unless it can communicate with the update server. That means it has either WiFi or 3G or the tablet gets the files and uploads them to the keyboard. Probably the latter.
Why would a keyboard need firmware updates? This is like the NSA wet dream, more pointless "IoT".
Bug fixes? If something needs a firmware to begin with, it probably needs firmware upgrades.
It's a keyboard.
It's not rocket science, how hard can it be to make a bug-free keyboard firmware? It's not this is virgin ground either, keyboards have been built for decades which had no bugs.
It's not rocket science, how hard can it be to make a bug-free keyboard firmware? It's not this is virgin ground either, keyboards have been built for decades which had no bugs.
If you look up the TextBlade, you will immediately see why its firmware needs to be more complex than your average keyboard.
Ok, I did looked it up, and still can't find anything worth updating? Different keyboard layouts?
In the end of the day it's still a keyboard. You click the keys and it sends keycodes down a wire or using Bluteooth. What's there to update?
In the end of the day it's still a keyboard. You click the keys and it sends keycodes down a wire or using Bluteooth. What's there to update?
Well, since it uses multitouch and some smarts to figure out which letter in one of the merged keys you wanted to type, I imagine it would be more useful to update that algorithm than in a keyboard where one button press = one keycode. This goes especially so if that algorithm uses any text based prediction, although I don't know whether it does. The multitouch, combined with an accelerometer I read the device has, could also be used to add interesting gestures or pressure-sensitive functionality that don't directly map to key presses. You could send the raw data over the air instead of using firmware on the device, but then nothing would be able to use it out of the box, so what's the advantage?
I think you're being purposefully obtuse here. This device is obviously more complicated than a standard keyboard and would definitely benefit from having a) sophisticated firmware, and b) the ability to update the firmware.
"keyboards have been built for decades which had no bugs."
Keyboards also haven't changed significantly for decades, we still use the same basic design, exterior(QWERTY) and interior(keyboard matrix circuit).
Keyboards also haven't changed significantly for decades, we still use the same basic design, exterior(QWERTY) and interior(keyboard matrix circuit).
It surely can be used, but the lack of modifier keys would make the experience a lot worse than with an usual keyboard.
Cut and paste seems to have buit-in shortcuts, I'm not sure about things like cmd+space, ctrl+tab etc. There don't even seem to be an escape key.
Cut and paste seems to have buit-in shortcuts, I'm not sure about things like cmd+space, ctrl+tab etc. There don't even seem to be an escape key.
https://waytools.com/products/textblade/2/numbers-symbols
It has Cmd (which I presume doubles as Ctrl for non-Apple?).
It has physical Tab and ⌂ in the CapsLock position; the latter suspiciously is marked only in green, and I wouldn't be surprised if it also does Escape.
And surely you can map Esc somewhere with https://waytools.com/store/showroom/info/multimap/tablet
Select and Edit combos (on home row!) let you access arrows, dedicated prev/next word, home/end and replaces Ctrl+ZXCV. So you're using Cmd(/Ctrl) and Shift less in favor of home row chords. To further deprecate Shift (leaving only letters and <>?"), most punctiuation moved to the Fn layer (the green modifier though they don't call it that).
That makes a lot of sense, as thumb-activated Cmd and Fn ought to be more comfortable than Shift.
The only loss in modifier convenience is numbers requiring Fn but that's cheap price for a row off.
=> Seems it has almost everything. The big missing modifiers are Alt and Win/Super. OTOH there is a "Media" modifier they don't elaborate on. I hope the remapping software is flexible enough to map at least Alt.
There will be a big learning curve for shortcut users, though modifier usage _ought_ to be actually more convenient than standard keyboards. (all theoretic)
Hmm, I'm off to try https://superuser.com/questions/96299/mapping-superhjkl-to-a...
Select and Edit combos (on home row!) let you access arrows, dedicated prev/next word, home/end and replaces Ctrl+ZXCV. So you're using Cmd(/Ctrl) and Shift less in favor of home row chords. To further deprecate Shift (leaving only letters and <>?"), most punctiuation moved to the Fn layer (the green modifier though they don't call it that).
That makes a lot of sense, as thumb-activated Cmd and Fn ought to be more comfortable than Shift.
The only loss in modifier convenience is numbers requiring Fn but that's cheap price for a row off.
=> Seems it has almost everything. The big missing modifiers are Alt and Win/Super. OTOH there is a "Media" modifier they don't elaborate on. I hope the remapping software is flexible enough to map at least Alt.
There will be a big learning curve for shortcut users, though modifier usage _ought_ to be actually more convenient than standard keyboards. (all theoretic)
Hmm, I'm off to try https://superuser.com/questions/96299/mapping-superhjkl-to-a...
The name "TextBlade" is eerily reminiscent of the phone from Nathan Barley (the Wasp T12 Speechtool: http://www.trashbat.co.ck/t12/index.html)
Are there any detailed reviews on textblade from actual humans? Googling around i find only copy-paste advertisements, and to say that their website doesn't fill me with confidence would be a massive understatement.
I was also skeptical (despite pre-ordering) until this review came out. http://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/06/hands-on-with-the-textbl...
That's not a very good review. It's long, but he only got to use it for a very short time in tightly controlled conditions.
I'm interested in the textblade. Was the moment I first heard of it. But I've never spent $100 on a keyboard. I would like at least a good honest review from a programmer I've heard of and respect. I would definitely prefer a hands on at a store before plucking down that kind of cash.
I think $100 would be a reasonable price to pay for a keyboard that you use for many hours every day over several decades. The Textblade seems like something that I'd use in short intervals here or there for a year or two.
Keyboards and mices from Microsoft and Logitech used to cost around $20-$30 and were of such a high quality that MTTF was about 10 years. Nowadays their products do not meet my needs (no 1990s/2000s traditional business style, only fancy form factors) and are overpriced with lower quality.
I don't think I have encountered any keyboard that would last for several decades.
Most keyboards from <1990 that have been treated reasonably well are still be in good working order today (or are at least repairable). It’s only really the last 25 or so years that keyboards have been on a downward cost/quality spiral.
IBM's model M keyboard is more than three decades old and built like a tank. Old model M keyboards are still in high demand on places like eBay.
My favorite freestanding desktop keyboard is still the original Macintosh Extended Keyboard[1] (the 2 is ok, but not as good as the original). I still have one in use on my linux machine. It requires a ADB to USB converter, but it's HID and so it works with anything. That keyboard is from the 1990 timeframe, so it's about 25 years old now and still works wonderfully.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Extended_Keyboard
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Extended_Keyboard
Goldtouch has a good track record and IBM heritage, http://allthingsergo.com/blog/reviews/goldtouch-keyboard-rev...
You can return it within 30 days of receiving it for a full refund. This means you can do your own review which is really all that will matter.
I am hoping that it helps greatly with special keys compared with standard keyboards. I am very curious about how it works with keyboard navigating type software such as Vim.
I pre-ordered it.
I am hoping that it helps greatly with special keys compared with standard keyboards. I am very curious about how it works with keyboard navigating type software such as Vim.
I pre-ordered it.
A Model M can cost you north of $100 these days. Of course, this isn't a model M...
The TextBlade looks pretty cool. Looks like it would take a lot of training to get proficient at as well. The MS keyboard is very nice looking and would work for casual typing. It might be a better buy than the cheapie keyboard that the Surface Pro comes with, which is one sucky keyboard.
Weird, that website design for way tools looked strangely familiar to nextengine.com. Digging further it looks like the same team.
I've been using a similar keyboard for months. It's a bit awkward and I get stares at coffee shops, but it's an amazing way to crank out emails on my large screen phone. It's the most portable office I've ever had. http://www.amazon.com/Chocolate-High-touch-Bluetooth-Flyshar...
It looks similar to a type cover for microsoft's surface. In that case typing will be quite good. I prefer it to any other laptop keyboard that I've used. Of course you can't expect it to be as good as a conventional keyboard.
The video link on TextBlade's site is broken.
I'm pretty sure they screwed something up, since it points to https://waytools.com/products/textblade/1/undefined.
Note "undefined"!
I'm pretty sure they screwed something up, since it points to https://waytools.com/products/textblade/1/undefined.
Note "undefined"!
[deleted]
Since every single comment[0] at the time of me writing mine is negative, let me make a positive one.
I do really like the concept and would buy a high-quality Bluetooth keyboard. I care about ergonomics and probably wouldn't want to code all day on such one, but sure as hell I would use it to reply to e-mails during my commute or write stuff wherever I happen to be at the moment.
I actually bought a cheap BT keyboard for my phone once for the very reasons outlined above, but ended up not using it because it was too crappy. Not the ergonomics, mind you - this I would tolerate, but the fact that it sometimes locked up and some letters were almost impossible to press - making the whole thing too unreliable for touch-typing. But I trust that Microsoft can make their own hardware well enough, and I might be looking into buying it when it comes out.
[0] - not picking on you personally, AnkhMorporkian, but your "Perhaps I'm nearly alone in this, but this just wouldn't work for me" sounds ironic when surrounded by over a dozen of comments criticizing the device. No, you're not alone ;).
I do really like the concept and would buy a high-quality Bluetooth keyboard. I care about ergonomics and probably wouldn't want to code all day on such one, but sure as hell I would use it to reply to e-mails during my commute or write stuff wherever I happen to be at the moment.
I actually bought a cheap BT keyboard for my phone once for the very reasons outlined above, but ended up not using it because it was too crappy. Not the ergonomics, mind you - this I would tolerate, but the fact that it sometimes locked up and some letters were almost impossible to press - making the whole thing too unreliable for touch-typing. But I trust that Microsoft can make their own hardware well enough, and I might be looking into buying it when it comes out.
[0] - not picking on you personally, AnkhMorporkian, but your "Perhaps I'm nearly alone in this, but this just wouldn't work for me" sounds ironic when surrounded by over a dozen of comments criticizing the device. No, you're not alone ;).
I actually used this [0] old Palm keyboard quite effectively with an iPad when travelling. Not very comfortable, but quite usable in a pinch. Bought out the last remaining mint condition piece a couple of years back and it has actually served us quite well when we feel the need to type longer bits of text while on vacation :-)
[0]http://www.amazon.com/Palm-3245WW-Wireless-Bluetooth-Keyboar...
[0]http://www.amazon.com/Palm-3245WW-Wireless-Bluetooth-Keyboar...
I recently bought an EC Technology foldable keyboard. It folds in three sections so I think it is smaller than the Microsoft one.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QRQZQR8?psc=1&redirect...
When folded it is about the same size as my Note 4, and I use it with the phone plus a Bluetooth mouse as a much more capable tablet alternative.
The actual keyboard is pretty good - better than some laptops - and the fact you can run two apps in split screen on a Note 4 makes it pretty practical for a lot of tasks. Plus I can fit the whole setup into my jeans or a jacket so I don't have to take a bag.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QRQZQR8?psc=1&redirect...
When folded it is about the same size as my Note 4, and I use it with the phone plus a Bluetooth mouse as a much more capable tablet alternative.
The actual keyboard is pretty good - better than some laptops - and the fact you can run two apps in split screen on a Note 4 makes it pretty practical for a lot of tasks. Plus I can fit the whole setup into my jeans or a jacket so I don't have to take a bag.
Seems like it will be bulkier when folded, but do no have the center split when unfolded.
The MS keyboard seems like a continuation of their Surface keyboard cover.
The MS keyboard seems like a continuation of their Surface keyboard cover.
Like you, I also own a small BT keyboard for casual use when traveling; but I actually bought a $15 no-brand one on ebay, and it works fine.
I think there's definitively a professional market that can afford to pay well for something only used occasionally. It's just not mass-market.
I think there's definitively a professional market that can afford to pay well for something only used occasionally. It's just not mass-market.
[deleted]
It's neat, but Microsoft has not reinvented the keyboard.
There's much prior art: https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=off&client=safari&hl=en...
I wonder how much MS paid Time.com for that article?
There's much prior art: https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=off&client=safari&hl=en...
I wonder how much MS paid Time.com for that article?
Seriously, you're more than correct. To say this is a straight up advertisement disguised as a puff piece would be kind.
That said, I do regard the Microsoft Natural keyboard one of the greatest keyboard designs I've used, but even that was only a slight variation on prior art. My only gripe is that I've never found one with mechanical switches (so I'm pretty sure they never existed).
PS - here is a plug for another "reinvented" bluetooth keyboard - its not foldable though :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOot8H8GPM4
That said, I do regard the Microsoft Natural keyboard one of the greatest keyboard designs I've used, but even that was only a slight variation on prior art. My only gripe is that I've never found one with mechanical switches (so I'm pretty sure they never existed).
PS - here is a plug for another "reinvented" bluetooth keyboard - its not foldable though :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOot8H8GPM4
You might like https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/index.php or a Kinesis with the height adjusters http://m.thewirecutter.com/reviews/comfortable-ergo-keyboard...
Edit: reviews of other mechanical ergo keyboards: http://www.anandtech.com/tag/ergonomic
Edit: reviews of other mechanical ergo keyboards: http://www.anandtech.com/tag/ergonomic
I tried a Truly Ergonomic for two months, I just couldn't get used to it. The layout is pretty awkward and I don't think it's suited for programming. Mine also had a weird key repeat issue where random keys would just bounce for no apparent reason. I really wanted to like it too. And I actually think the curve of the Natural Keyboard series is really important for the ergonomics. Luckily TE has a 60 day money back guarantee so I didn't waste any money, but it's definitely not for everyone.
You weren't alone experiencing the key repeat issue in your TE. I was an early purchaser of the TE as well, and my understanding is the first batch of MX-Blue keyboards they made all had this issue. I also returned mine.
I am also a big fan of the curve to the Natural keyboard, used to be my primary keyboard. However I find the combination of mechanical keys + a tenkeyless standard layout design (noticed a sore shoulder from mouse hand being far to the right) offers the most comfort for me at the moment.
I am also a big fan of the curve to the Natural keyboard, used to be my primary keyboard. However I find the combination of mechanical keys + a tenkeyless standard layout design (noticed a sore shoulder from mouse hand being far to the right) offers the most comfort for me at the moment.
I've tried Gold Touch, ErgoDox, MS 4000 and now the MS Sculpt Ergo. The Microsoft keyboards are the best I've used. Everyone I know who uses an ergo keyboard settled on the MS 4000 or upgraded to the Sculpt Ergo.
Now if only Logitech would make their TrackMan Wheel still. Or maybe Microsoft would make a worthy successor? Hint, hint (I own 4 Logitech trackballs just incase they are ever discontinued completely).
Now if only Logitech would make their TrackMan Wheel still. Or maybe Microsoft would make a worthy successor? Hint, hint (I own 4 Logitech trackballs just incase they are ever discontinued completely).
+1 on the Trackman Wheel. I'm down to two now, the switches in the buttons gave up on one. I would pay a lot for a worthy successor.
(Here's how to enjoy a thumb-trackball: Push up the sensitivity to max. Give it 14 days no matter how bad you think it is. Love it forever.)
(Here's how to enjoy a thumb-trackball: Push up the sensitivity to max. Give it 14 days no matter how bad you think it is. Love it forever.)
No kidding. Reinvented? "Microsoft made yet another folding keyboard."
Here I was half-excited, half-terrified about seeing something with no buttons; or one without the standard letter keys.
Still, if it's comfortable for typing, and if the battery really lasts that long, that'd be kinda neat. But I doubt either will be true.
Here I was half-excited, half-terrified about seeing something with no buttons; or one without the standard letter keys.
Still, if it's comfortable for typing, and if the battery really lasts that long, that'd be kinda neat. But I doubt either will be true.
If Apple got away with "reinvented" folders, then I'm pretty much OK with Microsoft "reinventing" this and anyone else reinventing any wheel they may find.
I'm not saying you are wrong per se, but at least lets try to keep our standards consistent.
I'm not saying you are wrong per se, but at least lets try to keep our standards consistent.
So, do you have any actual proof of this allegation or is it just another gratuitous accusation from an Apple hater?
Those are the only 2 choices?
How about patenting this http://goo.gl/9KApy7, then?
How about patenting this http://goo.gl/9KApy7, then?
If anything, I'd prefer using the many other folding keyboards out there, ones that don't have a huge gap between the two halves when unfolded and thus feel far more like a regular (laptop) keyboard with respect to key spacing etc.
The B key is usually in the middle, and I've always used my right hand to hit it, so this isn't a keyboard I'd want to use.
The B key is usually in the middle, and I've always used my right hand to hit it, so this isn't a keyboard I'd want to use.
They pretty much started the company "reinventing" something invented before at Dartmouth College.
Then they went on to "reinvent" CP/M for the IBM-PC.
They "reinvent" pretty much everything they do.
Then they went on to "reinvent" CP/M for the IBM-PC.
They "reinvent" pretty much everything they do.
My biggest gripe with almost all portable keyboards is that they can only be used on a flat, firm surface. If I have a flat, firm surface, I'm not mobile.
Unless that MS keyboard locks, I can't sit it on my lap while I'm in the train, or in the back seat of a car. Where are people finding themselves, such that they need a portable keyboard, have a nice, stable flat surface, but also didn't bring their notebook? Shrug :/
Unless that MS keyboard locks, I can't sit it on my lap while I'm in the train, or in the back seat of a car. Where are people finding themselves, such that they need a portable keyboard, have a nice, stable flat surface, but also didn't bring their notebook? Shrug :/
Coffee shops, usually. Then again I usually travel around the city on foot, so the keyboard allowed me to avoid carrying the laptop around.
I could definitely see myself using something like this to avoid carrying my MacBook around. Especially if I'm traveling in a foreign country and all I'm really doing is sipping wifi checking messages and using google maps.
As well as my portable keyboard I keep a small non-slip mat folded up in my bag, to sit the keyboard on top of.
You could drape this one over your thigh, split keyboard style :)
Hah! Like the good old Microsoft Natural Keyboard, eh? I would go for that if it locked in place, actually, but the wobblyness would drive me nuckin futs.
It's getting harder and harder to buy traditional high quality mouse and keyboards for PC. Microsoft and Logitech used to produce them.
But the look at the current portfolio of Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/mice and http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/keyboards
No traditional keyboard with cable and normal key-layout, no normal mouse like the IntelliMouse or Comfort Mouse 6000 (discontinued because of firmware lag bug).
And Logitech portfolio: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice and http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards
Logitech discontinued their best cable based mices, MX500 and MX518 too.
Notebooks used to have good keyboards too, like the IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad T40/T60/T400/T410 series. But recent notebooks from Lenovo//HP/Apple/etc. all have these flat keys :(
What traditional cable based keyboards/mices and business notebooks with normal keys should one buy? The above mentioned products are already so rare one that Amazon.com lists them with a ca. $200 price tag (they used to be reasonable priced in $20-$30 range).
But the look at the current portfolio of Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/mice and http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/keyboards
No traditional keyboard with cable and normal key-layout, no normal mouse like the IntelliMouse or Comfort Mouse 6000 (discontinued because of firmware lag bug).
And Logitech portfolio: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice and http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards
Logitech discontinued their best cable based mices, MX500 and MX518 too.
Notebooks used to have good keyboards too, like the IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad T40/T60/T400/T410 series. But recent notebooks from Lenovo//HP/Apple/etc. all have these flat keys :(
What traditional cable based keyboards/mices and business notebooks with normal keys should one buy? The above mentioned products are already so rare one that Amazon.com lists them with a ca. $200 price tag (they used to be reasonable priced in $20-$30 range).
>Logitech discontinued their best cable based mices, MX500 and MX518 too.
The MX518 for me at least lives on as the G400s. I used to own an MX518 and got the G400s recently and it's basically the same thing except with a better surface texture (and higher DPI? I don't really care since I always keep it on the lowest setting).
>What traditional cable based keyboards/mices and business notebooks with normal keys should one buy?
I use a ThinkPad T420 which would seem to be the last "traditional" ThinkPad. I mean it's clear it's already going in the direction of the newer laptops but this one still has the traditional keyboard while having up-to-date hardware otherwise. Hopefully by the time that becomes outdated there will be something worth buying on the market...
As for my desktop keyboard: IBM Model M, accept no substitutes.
The MX518 for me at least lives on as the G400s. I used to own an MX518 and got the G400s recently and it's basically the same thing except with a better surface texture (and higher DPI? I don't really care since I always keep it on the lowest setting).
>What traditional cable based keyboards/mices and business notebooks with normal keys should one buy?
I use a ThinkPad T420 which would seem to be the last "traditional" ThinkPad. I mean it's clear it's already going in the direction of the newer laptops but this one still has the traditional keyboard while having up-to-date hardware otherwise. Hopefully by the time that becomes outdated there will be something worth buying on the market...
As for my desktop keyboard: IBM Model M, accept no substitutes.
It's not harder to buy "traditional high quality" in the keyboard sense - to me, that means buckling spring, and there's a huge market for it at the moment. It is expensive though. Have a search for "Cherry MX" keyboards. Big manufacturers like Corsair have recently launched several traditionally shaped keyboards with these switches.
The point about mice is dead on though, I wish I'd bought more of the Intellimouse model as I am on my last one (of probably 3-4 total) and the Comfort Mouse 6000 I bought to replace it is not good enough. The slight lag on middle click is forever annoying.
Look for some of the better engineered Microsoft mice (now all discontinued) on Amazon for an idea of what kind of prices these are fetching. Some are crazy expensive and I suspect it is because people like me still want them.
Edit: Here's a 50-pack for £4500 on Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Optical-1-1-o...
Look for some of the better engineered Microsoft mice (now all discontinued) on Amazon for an idea of what kind of prices these are fetching. Some are crazy expensive and I suspect it is because people like me still want them.
Edit: Here's a 50-pack for £4500 on Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-IntelliMouse-Optical-1-1-o...
I am still using my first intellimouse; it must be 15 years old (I actually don't remember exactly when I bought it, but it was a long time ago) - it's absolutely perfect still. I have just ordered another for home (just in case) and two for the office (one for usage, one for backup). It really is a solid bit of kit, and I'd be gutted if I couldn't source one again.
And they are great mice for gaming - I've been using a WMO1.1a for probably a decade, once you stick some custom mousefeet on them they are fantastic.
You mean the 70s/80s IBM keyboard typewriter/console/keyboard - very good quality but with a noise factor.
For me the 90s keyboard/mice quality would be enough - as known from the old Microsoft Hardware department, the old Switzerland based Logitech company and IBM Thinkpad keyboards.
The 90s/early 2000s hardware has a MTTF of about 10 years. The current 2010s hardware don't fit my needs at all, are overpriced (gaming devices) and have a very low product quality in general. [Edit: ...product quality of Microsoft/Logitech/Lenovo devices]
For me the 90s keyboard/mice quality would be enough - as known from the old Microsoft Hardware department, the old Switzerland based Logitech company and IBM Thinkpad keyboards.
The 90s/early 2000s hardware has a MTTF of about 10 years. The current 2010s hardware don't fit my needs at all, are overpriced (gaming devices) and have a very low product quality in general. [Edit: ...product quality of Microsoft/Logitech/Lenovo devices]
Very low product quality? I have a Filco Majestouch that I'm pretty sure is going to outlast every peripheral and piece of tech at my desk and survive longer than 10 years. The switches are rated for 50m actuation and the body is fantastically sturdy. I'd even say it is of a higher overall quality than the IBM Model M.
Sure, there are lot of shitty overpriced gaming keyboards but if you avoid those brands and get a Filco, Ducky, Das or Leopold for instance, you're getting quality.
And most switches except for Blues will be quieter than the 70s/80s IBM era. I'd hate to have to go back to 90s Microsoft keyboards to be completely honest, long lasting maybe but not a nice experience.
Sure, there are lot of shitty overpriced gaming keyboards but if you avoid those brands and get a Filco, Ducky, Das or Leopold for instance, you're getting quality.
And most switches except for Blues will be quieter than the 70s/80s IBM era. I'd hate to have to go back to 90s Microsoft keyboards to be completely honest, long lasting maybe but not a nice experience.
I had a Model M until quite recently (and still have some buckling spring Unicomps), and have switched to blues at work. They're quieter than the M, but not by a lot.
A couple guys at work are big mech KB fans too and one bought a Topre based KB - I'm thinking of switching to that. It's nice and worth checking out, even if you end up not liking it.
A couple guys at work are big mech KB fans too and one bought a Topre based KB - I'm thinking of switching to that. It's nice and worth checking out, even if you end up not liking it.
As far as the noise factor goes, the type of Cherry MX switches you get makes a big difference. Blues have the most tactile feedback but are loud. But I use Browns at work and they have good feedback while not being much louder than a "normal" keyboard.
I use the Ultimate (no key labels) of this DAS model: http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4-professional/. It's a fantastic keyboard, but yes it's more expensive. I found it was easily worth the price.
I use the Ultimate (no key labels) of this DAS model: http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4-professional/. It's a fantastic keyboard, but yes it's more expensive. I found it was easily worth the price.
Please define overpriced.
Maybe you earn your living with a keyboard and use it for 8+ hours a day. How much is that worth?
Maybe you spend $1,000 a year on a mobile phone + contract when you could get something that does the same job for half the price or less.
Maybe you spend $1,000 a year on Starbucks ;-)
Is a $100 to $200 mechanical keyboard actually overpriced if it works well for 5 to 10 years or even more?
Maybe you earn your living with a keyboard and use it for 8+ hours a day. How much is that worth?
Maybe you spend $1,000 a year on a mobile phone + contract when you could get something that does the same job for half the price or less.
Maybe you spend $1,000 a year on Starbucks ;-)
Is a $100 to $200 mechanical keyboard actually overpriced if it works well for 5 to 10 years or even more?
> Please define overpriced.
I wrote "overpriced (gaming devices)". If I need a 90s/2000s style traditional office PC mouse (and keyboard) one has more or less resort to what's called PC gaming mouse/keyboard or keyboard with IBM/Cherry springs. The former is usually overpriced and often even of low quality (short life time) than the older generation of products. Example: a gaming mouse that costs $100 and has a crappy mouse-wheel and has a short lifetime of 2 years is of course worse than a good old Microsoft IntelliMouse or Logitech MX518 that used to cost $30 and has a lifetime of up to 10 years.
Also it's incredible hard to find a new notebook with non-soft-keys keyboard. If I would like to replace my Lenovo Thinkpad T410/T420, there is simply non from Lenovo, HP or Apple. I would pay up to $1000 more if Lenovo/HP/Apple would produce a new T4xx series with a good keyboard and case again.
I wrote "overpriced (gaming devices)". If I need a 90s/2000s style traditional office PC mouse (and keyboard) one has more or less resort to what's called PC gaming mouse/keyboard or keyboard with IBM/Cherry springs. The former is usually overpriced and often even of low quality (short life time) than the older generation of products. Example: a gaming mouse that costs $100 and has a crappy mouse-wheel and has a short lifetime of 2 years is of course worse than a good old Microsoft IntelliMouse or Logitech MX518 that used to cost $30 and has a lifetime of up to 10 years.
Also it's incredible hard to find a new notebook with non-soft-keys keyboard. If I would like to replace my Lenovo Thinkpad T410/T420, there is simply non from Lenovo, HP or Apple. I would pay up to $1000 more if Lenovo/HP/Apple would produce a new T4xx series with a good keyboard and case again.
There are plenty of good keyboards around from companies such as Cherry, and they're aimed at the professional market, not at gamers.....
http://www.cherry.de/cid/corded_keyboards.htm?rdeLocationAtt...
Sadly, there are no good keyboards on laptops anymore because keyboard quality is one of the things you sacrifice for thinness (as well as performance, ports, expandability and so on).
Thinkpad keyboards have been in decline for a long time. The one on my 240X was brilliant and the X31 etc were good. The X220 was the last good one, with the new style arriving with the X230, I think. I'm not familiar with the T range but I assume parallel numbers apply.
The solution that works for some is to buy two external keyboards, one for home and one for the office. You can put the laptop on a stand and this improves the ergonomics....
Sadly, there are no good keyboards on laptops anymore because keyboard quality is one of the things you sacrifice for thinness (as well as performance, ports, expandability and so on).
Thinkpad keyboards have been in decline for a long time. The one on my 240X was brilliant and the X31 etc were good. The X220 was the last good one, with the new style arriving with the X230, I think. I'm not familiar with the T range but I assume parallel numbers apply.
The solution that works for some is to buy two external keyboards, one for home and one for the office. You can put the laptop on a stand and this improves the ergonomics....
I need a "split" keyboard so my choices are relatively limited. The Kinesys Freestyle 2 keyboards (with the tenting) are pretty decent replacements for older members of the Microsoft Natural series. The Kinesys boards are not perfect (the ESC key is a bit far out, and there are 8 special purpose keys on a bank on the left that are useless). But they've got inverted-T and the key feel is good.
The MS Natural keyboard line became utter crap with the 4000 and they've just been digging the hole deeper. Mushy keys, bad travel, bad layout, very bad decisions about ESC and F-key sizes. The latest attempt at a real "ergo" keyboard is an unusable embarrassment.
I have a couple of the Kinesys boards. I'll probably keep buying Kinesys as these wear out unless MS ships a decent split keyboard (Cherry keys, okay? No mush, right?).
Shout out to the keyboard folks at MS: Talk to some of your better engineers about what it takes to make a keyboard that you can touch-type code on. Talk to people who use Eamcs or vi. Build that. It can be $300, but if it's good, I'll buy several.
(Let's not talk about the mice quite yet... :-) )
The MS Natural keyboard line became utter crap with the 4000 and they've just been digging the hole deeper. Mushy keys, bad travel, bad layout, very bad decisions about ESC and F-key sizes. The latest attempt at a real "ergo" keyboard is an unusable embarrassment.
I have a couple of the Kinesys boards. I'll probably keep buying Kinesys as these wear out unless MS ships a decent split keyboard (Cherry keys, okay? No mush, right?).
Shout out to the keyboard folks at MS: Talk to some of your better engineers about what it takes to make a keyboard that you can touch-type code on. Talk to people who use Eamcs or vi. Build that. It can be $300, but if it's good, I'll buy several.
(Let's not talk about the mice quite yet... :-) )
I've used and loved all the Microsoft ergonomic keyboards. Wired ones anyways. I've never had a problem with them and while I don't ever use any of the special keys or add ons.they don't distract or cause me issues ever.
I have half a dozen of the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 keyboards sitting in a closet because I got tired of them discontinuing previous versions right around the time my keyboard would start to have issues or an unfortunate accident would kill one. Really the only ergonomic keyboard they made that I didn't like were the second version of the original ergonomic keyboards labeled with elite. They used a layout where the arrow keys were placed i a + pattern rather than a ⊥
What traditional cable based mice
Logitech G9x is the best mouse I've ever used.
I didn't even realize how good it is until I went on a quest to find an equally good wireless mouse. Let's just say I'm still wire-bound and still looking...
Precision is top-notch, mouse-wheel is great, weight is adjustable, and if you prefer narrow mice (I do) then you can remove the grip-cover[1].
I'd pay a pretty penny for a wireless version of it, but Logitech insists on using different (imho inferior) designs for their wireless mice.
[1] http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FodVs0sQQkQ/TcvJKMXYuaI/AAAAAAAAAK...
Logitech G9x is the best mouse I've ever used.
I didn't even realize how good it is until I went on a quest to find an equally good wireless mouse. Let's just say I'm still wire-bound and still looking...
Precision is top-notch, mouse-wheel is great, weight is adjustable, and if you prefer narrow mice (I do) then you can remove the grip-cover[1].
I'd pay a pretty penny for a wireless version of it, but Logitech insists on using different (imho inferior) designs for their wireless mice.
[1] http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FodVs0sQQkQ/TcvJKMXYuaI/AAAAAAAAAK...
mice: roccat (Yes, they do fancy 100$ gaming mouses, but some of their cheap offerings are great as well)
>What traditional cable based keyboards
Das, Corsair.
>What traditional cable based mices
Corsair
Das, Corsair.
>What traditional cable based mices
Corsair
I read everywhere that recent Corsair products have reliability problems (incl. RAPTOR M30). Older generations of the same product lines were better manufactured. With a short life-time they would be not better than recent Microsoft or Logitech hardware products. Hopefully Corsair already replaced some thin plastics parts that acted like predetermined breaking point.
Cherry is pretty great for keyboards too, even outside their mechanicals ones.
I never underestimate Microsoft hardware, it's usually among the best in the business.
This looks fabulous. In fact, with my big Android phone (note 3), an X Server, a Terminal app and Servers Ultimate Pro, I can basically bring everything I do at work with me in my pocket.
In fact I should give this a try http://linuxonandroid.org/ and be done with the whole mess. Though this will get you pretty far http://kevinboone.net/android_nonroot.html
Combined with an MHL to HDMI adapter I can even use a real monitor.
This looks fabulous. In fact, with my big Android phone (note 3), an X Server, a Terminal app and Servers Ultimate Pro, I can basically bring everything I do at work with me in my pocket.
In fact I should give this a try http://linuxonandroid.org/ and be done with the whole mess. Though this will get you pretty far http://kevinboone.net/android_nonroot.html
Combined with an MHL to HDMI adapter I can even use a real monitor.
I have always been interested in the HDMI output on Android phones and using it for basic desktop stuff. Does that actually work? Will it render out to 1920 x 1080 ?
I've yet to get the adapter for my phone, but my Shield tablet has a built-in hdmi port and works amazingly well.
And you can hookup a BT or wired keyboard and mouse? Ever run something like emacs ? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zielm.emac...
I've used a wired mouse and keyboard over USB and it worked fine. But I don't have a BT equivalent so I don't know how well they work.
I'm also not an emacs user, so I can't comment on how good this port is. However, I've used my phones with terminal emulators and setup busybox and ssh and vim work fine.
For quite a while I even used a spare android phone as a remote log monitor when we were developing something and a tricky intermittent bug would show up. I just brought it around with me to meetings, wherever and just tailed a log file to keep an eye on things. It just sat under my normal monitor most of the time acting like an extra mini-screen.
http://kevinboone.net/android_nonroot.html
There's also a port of Octave if that's important
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.octave&hl=...
I'm also not an emacs user, so I can't comment on how good this port is. However, I've used my phones with terminal emulators and setup busybox and ssh and vim work fine.
For quite a while I even used a spare android phone as a remote log monitor when we were developing something and a tricky intermittent bug would show up. I just brought it around with me to meetings, wherever and just tailed a log file to keep an eye on things. It just sat under my normal monitor most of the time acting like an extra mini-screen.
http://kevinboone.net/android_nonroot.html
There's also a port of Octave if that's important
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.octave&hl=...
Microsoft once made an awesome trackball and then discontinued it, leaving the remaining supply to be auctioned at high prices on eBay. If you're lucky, you can now find one of these extinct $50 MSRP rarities for the low price of $550 on Amazon, http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-D68-00007-Trackball-Explorer...
Why they won't bring this trackball back to the market is a mystery.
Why they won't bring this trackball back to the market is a mystery.
I don't understand why the trackball died. I can move a mouse pointer much faster with it than with a trackpad.
Google's G1 had also a trackball. I think this was the only smartphone with a trackball.
HTC Hero and original Desire had one too, not sure when HTC stopped or if anyone else used them though.
I had the Desire, and that was less a trackball and more an optical sensor. A much poorer experience than a trackball.
I'm with you. I'm using a Logitech TrackMan Wheel, and though it operates at a low resolution, is still a very efficient means of moving the mouse across high resolution/multi-screen setups. Microsoft must have something against trackballs, and they shouldn't. I'm sure they could do well releasing a slick trackball that could compete against Logitech and Kensington.
As for the latter, the iPhone in 2007 pretty much set the bar for how mobile interfaces should be done and then everyone just fell in line. And on a sidenote, the trackballs on older Blackberries were very unreliable, so there's that aspect to it as well.
As for the latter, the iPhone in 2007 pretty much set the bar for how mobile interfaces should be done and then everyone just fell in line. And on a sidenote, the trackballs on older Blackberries were very unreliable, so there's that aspect to it as well.
The trackballs on the BlackBerries were absolutely perfect... until some tiny amount of dirt/oil/etc got in there. Then they were glitchy little bastards.
I also have the Logitech Trackman. I swear by it, and will never go back to using a mouse. I started with the wired version, then reluctantly bought the wireless model when I needed another one. The wired sells used now for $300.
FYI, Pledge or similar furniture wax works wonders on the trackball. I pop mine out every couple of weeks and give it a good waxing.
I also have the Logitech Trackman. I swear by it, and will never go back to using a mouse. I started with the wired version, then reluctantly bought the wireless model when I needed another one. The wired sells used now for $300.
FYI, Pledge or similar furniture wax works wonders on the trackball. I pop mine out every couple of weeks and give it a good waxing.
I had exactly the same history: started with the Microsoft trackball (guided by the fingers), and when that died, switched to the wired Logitech trackman (ball is under the thumb), and now that's unavailable so have the wireless one. Both trackmans work the same, but I'm stationary so prefer the wired version.
In the end, I prefer the ergonomics of the trackmans better because of the thumb ball. I even put a small bean bag under it so it is tilted backward and easier on the wrist (like my Microsoft ergonomic keyboard).
In the end, I prefer the ergonomics of the trackmans better because of the thumb ball. I even put a small bean bag under it so it is tilted backward and easier on the wrist (like my Microsoft ergonomic keyboard).
Google's Nexus One also had one.
Blackberry curves had it.
Because it's a sure way of getting a RSI? I've used of the thumb type and it was awful, couldn't stand a week.
the thumb type cured me of rsi. i swear by them ... can't go back to the dragging type.
The MS Explorer trackball had a large surface area, was located at the top and could be used by multiple fingers or even the palm.
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I love my Logitech M570... Have one at work and one at home and can't imagine going back to a regular mouse (may be if I go back gaming but not sure if this would happen).
Highly recomend it! :)
Highly recomend it! :)
I still use one of these on my desktop. My favorite pointing device of all time.
I hate laptop keyboards. The problem is the touch pad in front of it. Inevitably, my palm will brush against it, and the software will assume I'm clicking on something, and something random will happen.
It's not just me, others will sometimes ask me what the hell happened, I was typing away, and the window disappeared (or some other random thing happened), and I say "you brushed against the touchpad".
It's so bad that when I travel, I throw a full size usb keyboard into my luggage and plug it into my laptop.
It's not just me, others will sometimes ask me what the hell happened, I was typing away, and the window disappeared (or some other random thing happened), and I say "you brushed against the touchpad".
It's so bad that when I travel, I throw a full size usb keyboard into my luggage and plug it into my laptop.
> The problem is the touch pad in front of it. Inevitably, my palm will brush against it, and the software will assume I'm clicking on something, and something random will happen.
Has that ever happened on MacBook? It seems that better hardware and software, Apple has completely eliminated that issue.
Has that ever happened on MacBook? It seems that better hardware and software, Apple has completely eliminated that issue.
Happens to me on latest MacBook pro from time to time. Note that it's a touch event rather than a click event, but I like having the touch event set up for any occasions where frequent clicking would be too noisy, for example. I've got used to it so I can avoid it more now but, especially at first, the sudden jumping of a cursor in a text editor whilst programming is very frustrating.
on debian systems you can do
Macs don't really have a problem with it.
syndaemon -i 1 -K -d
Macs don't really have a problem with it.
> my palm will brush against it, and the software will assume I'm clicking on something
There should be palm rejection options available, or options to turn off touch pad clicks in the touchpad driver software. Most OEMs use Synaptics, you can download the latest driver software directly from their site, it may give you more options than you currently have available.
There should be palm rejection options available, or options to turn off touch pad clicks in the touchpad driver software. Most OEMs use Synaptics, you can download the latest driver software directly from their site, it may give you more options than you currently have available.
Buy a laptop with a pointing stick and disable the touchpad (if one exists); Thinkpads are most known for having one but other manufacturers also have one on some of their laptops.
Never had a problem with it, both on WinXP from 2001 to 2008 and with Ubuntu since then. I never changed the default settings. All just worked. They've been all HP laptops.
This is the single reason why I refuse to buy anything but MacBooks. I suggest you give them a try, because this problem is eliminated on the Apple ecosystem.
Interesting, this is a smart move on Microsoft's part. Their keyboard technology in the Surface 3 is pretty good, and by not tying it to the surface this gives them a chance to expand that experience outside of people with that product.
That said, the bluetooth LE keyboard market is going to be really thick with keyboards by the end of the year. Unlike regular bluetooth the LE spec gives you nice burst packets for a better power utilization.
I'll certainly give it a look, I've got a few bluetooth keyboards and each has been a modest improvement over the former.
That said, the bluetooth LE keyboard market is going to be really thick with keyboards by the end of the year. Unlike regular bluetooth the LE spec gives you nice burst packets for a better power utilization.
I'll certainly give it a look, I've got a few bluetooth keyboards and each has been a modest improvement over the former.
Coincidentally saw this on Kickstarter today about a guy with a cool idea to reinvent typing altogether: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/forrestmaready/crosstap...
Sounds similar to this project to build an open source stenographic keyboard:
http://stenosaurus.blogspot.com/
http://stenosaurus.blogspot.com/
Every software replacement keyboard has the same problem in lacking familiarity and having a high learning curve that makes it difficult for new users to pick up. The only exception is qwerty on mobile.
To me this looks indistinguishable from:
http://www.amazon.com/iWerkz-Universal-Foldable-Bluetooth-44...
Available now at half the price.
http://www.amazon.com/iWerkz-Universal-Foldable-Bluetooth-44...
Available now at half the price.
It is very obvious to me that these keyboards on Amazon are a lot thicker than the MS keyboard (and probably a lot heavier). Look carefully at the thickness of the edge: the MS one is so thin that they had to create a bulge around its micro USB port! Also the Amazon keyboards are using hinges, but the MS keyboard fold is made of flexible material so it is probably more durable.
are you suuuuuuuuuure it's thinner?
http://cdn.pocket-lint.com/r/s/727x/assets/images/phpkhkakk....
http://cdn.pocket-lint.com/r/s/727x/assets/images/phpkhkakk....
Yeah, it's thinner. The dimensions are on the Microsoft Store site: 0.45 inches vs 1.2 inches.
Still doesn't qualify as "reinventing the keyboard" IMHO.
Still doesn't qualify as "reinventing the keyboard" IMHO.
Or this one at $30.
http://www.amazon.com/Perixx-PERIBOARD-805L-Bluetooth-Foldin...
http://www.amazon.com/Perixx-PERIBOARD-805L-Bluetooth-Foldin...
I have that one, and it's very nice, the keys feel similar to a regular keyboard. It also feels pretty solid mechanically when you fold it out. However its not that small. The feature on the MS one to allow easy pairing to more than one device is nice. The textblade looked interesting because its very small. However I would be very skeptical without some third party reviews of people who actually used the device.
Yet another keyboard with staggered keys. How come are all keyboard manufacturers going out of their way to complicate the layout by staggering the keys? It makes absolutely no sense, and only contributes to inefficient typing and wrist fatigue.
I would pay so much for a notebook with straight/matrix keyboard.
This is what it could look like:
http://imgur.com/9KomLMg
I would pay so much for a notebook with straight/matrix keyboard.
This is what it could look like:
http://imgur.com/9KomLMg
I used a device with a keyboard like that.
It's horrible! Very uncomfortable, and it's missing a sort of "feel" that tells you where the keys are.
It's horrible! Very uncomfortable, and it's missing a sort of "feel" that tells you where the keys are.
Two of the best keyboards I've used. Both have straight keys:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7125/kinesis-advantage-review-...
http://www.typematrix.com/
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7125/kinesis-advantage-review-...
http://www.typematrix.com/
I guess MS is late by 19 years.
PFU Limited reinvented the keyboard in 1996 :-P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Hacking_Keyboard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Hacking_Keyboard
That doesn't fold though. It's a foot wide and 4cm thick. The whole point of this new keyboard here is that it folds, and that it's really thin, so that it's like 6" x 5" x 1cm, and can go in your handbag or coat pocket.
Much better prior art here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palm-Vx-Portable-Keyboard-105Keys/dp... (has 2 fold points, feels like a laptop keyboard)
Much better prior art here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palm-Vx-Portable-Keyboard-105Keys/dp... (has 2 fold points, feels like a laptop keyboard)
I still have two generations of the Palm folding keyboard, including the one shown in the link, and a newer one that's even slicker. They are in my junk box along with the Palm Pilots that I bought them for.
They were absolutely wonderful. I could unfold the keyboard, turn on the Palm, and be taking notes in a meeting or on an airplane, in seconds. Plus, the Palm devices had killer battery life despite the battery technology of their time, and some usability concepts that were way ahead of their time.
They were absolutely wonderful. I could unfold the keyboard, turn on the Palm, and be taking notes in a meeting or on an airplane, in seconds. Plus, the Palm devices had killer battery life despite the battery technology of their time, and some usability concepts that were way ahead of their time.
"Your airplane is so expensive!"
"But your bicycle is so slow!"
"But your bicycle is so slow!"
I like the more foldable style that has been around for a while http://www.amazon.com/Targus-Stowaway-Portable-Keyboard-Hand... I hope they come out with one like that.
I had one for a Compaq iPaq, it felt like the future every time I opened up. That was 2000 or 2001 I think?
I had one for a Compaq iPaq, it felt like the future every time I opened up. That was 2000 or 2001 I think?
I love Stowaways too - I had one for a Palm, around 2002. Then went looking for a Bluetooth one a few years later, only to find nobody makes them.
I guess either they are inferior to the foldable ones you can get everywhere (haven't tried one), or Targus are refusing to make or license them.
I guess either they are inferior to the foldable ones you can get everywhere (haven't tried one), or Targus are refusing to make or license them.
For the iPaq it was 2001. I still have it around and Iw was great.
Only problem: it was a bit thick when folded. Thiker than any modern smartphone.
Currently using an iP6+ with the new Logitech Keys-To-Go which is similar and probably even thinner but not folding. Keyboard's great but every manufacturer seems to be missing the fact that you'll also need a decent stand for the phone and I have yet to find something that's slim, adjustable and not 3$ eBay quality.
I love my Microsoft wedge keyboard,seem to fit your needs also.
See http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/wedge-mobile-keybo...
See http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/wedge-mobile-keybo...
Too bulky and the stand isn't great for a phone.
As some others have suggested here I highly recommend checking out the textblade. Not only do I think the design is better but your money is also going to a better home rather than to a large corporate that has a dubious reputation at the best of times.
A couple of concerns regarding the Text Blade:
1. Does out use standard HID or something custom? Any keyboard that requires installation of a specific app or driver has a dubious future ( two now-useless Freedom Bluetooth keyboards on many cupboard testify )
2. Their website is frankly terrible. First, a pop-up that tells me to use Chrome, Safari or Firefox and renders a blank page ( this is Android Firefox ). Hack around that and it then INSISTS that I rotate my phone horizontally before showing me any content! Immediately paints a negative image of this organization.
1. Does out use standard HID or something custom? Any keyboard that requires installation of a specific app or driver has a dubious future ( two now-useless Freedom Bluetooth keyboards on many cupboard testify )
2. Their website is frankly terrible. First, a pop-up that tells me to use Chrome, Safari or Firefox and renders a blank page ( this is Android Firefox ). Hack around that and it then INSISTS that I rotate my phone horizontally before showing me any content! Immediately paints a negative image of this organization.
Seems cool, but the order they list the supported devices (iPad, iPhone, Android, Windows) tells everything about their current self-esteem.
I like that. That's the reality and they face it.
That's much better than corporate-speak from lala land where there's only Surface tablet and Windows phones.
That's much better than corporate-speak from lala land where there's only Surface tablet and Windows phones.
It tells you nothing about their self esteem, it's about offering products people want to buy. Does selling Microsoft Office for OS X show a lack of esteem? (Hint: the basic Office programs appeared first on the Mac.)
In any case, Microsoft already launched a Universal Bluetooth Keyboard (works with Windows, Android, iOS) last year. It would be a surprise if they went backwards from that.
In any case, Microsoft already launched a Universal Bluetooth Keyboard (works with Windows, Android, iOS) last year. It would be a surprise if they went backwards from that.
MS board's corporate strategy is to prioritize cloud services over client operating systems and hardware. Hence the client-neutral messaging.
Google even usually mentions iPhone first.
They guy who is marketing this keyboard is responsible for selling keyboards, so he lists them in the order of likelihood that the reader owns one. Speaking exactly, only 71 people on Earth actually have Windows tablets, so mentioning them first would only serve to make the author seem like a corporate toolbag of the highest order.
> Speaking exactly, only 71 people on Earth actually have Windows tablets
Was that necessary?
Was that necessary?
It's a keyboard that fits in a purse. C'mon, that's awesome! I used something similar though back a decade and a half ago with my Palm V, although it wasn't quite as sexy.
Looks far too large for me to slip into a jacket pocket.
I'd much rather they'd brought back something like the Nokia SU-8W, which was the ultimate folding Bluetooth keyboard.
I'd much rather they'd brought back something like the Nokia SU-8W, which was the ultimate folding Bluetooth keyboard.
I've had one of these for decades:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Palm+V+folding+keyboard
I've been using a Palm V as my diary, and use it as a text input device when travelling extremely light. I then transfer the raw text to my main machine(s), tidy, and publish. Extremely useful, and I've never found a system to replace it that lets me travel with only what I can carry in my pockets.
And this new keyboard? It's bigger than the one I already use, and looks like it's not as tactile. I'd like to try one, but I'm not hopeful.
EDIT: Here's a USB modern version:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00L487QKO/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1...
Although thicker, it's a more compact version than this "new" offering.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Palm+V+folding+keyboard
I've been using a Palm V as my diary, and use it as a text input device when travelling extremely light. I then transfer the raw text to my main machine(s), tidy, and publish. Extremely useful, and I've never found a system to replace it that lets me travel with only what I can carry in my pockets.
And this new keyboard? It's bigger than the one I already use, and looks like it's not as tactile. I'd like to try one, but I'm not hopeful.
EDIT: Here's a USB modern version:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00L487QKO/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1...
Although thicker, it's a more compact version than this "new" offering.
Has anyone else had serious issues using Microsoft peripherals? I purchased a Microsoft wireless keyboard and ergonomic mouse when I built my current Windows 8 machine, and have had nothing but trouble with both. The keyboard is at least functional, although it doesn't provide much insight to the amount of battery it has left. I'll be typing and suddenly it'll give out. It's usable, though.
The mouse on the other hand has given me grief around the clock. Severe latency issues make it difficult to use, not just while playing games, but during basic usage such as browsing the web. I have to have two mice connected just in case this one throws me for a loop. It is a shame because I really like the feel of both the keyboard and the mouse. I just wish they worked.
That said, I can't say I would ever recommend this keyboard to any of my friends.
The mouse on the other hand has given me grief around the clock. Severe latency issues make it difficult to use, not just while playing games, but during basic usage such as browsing the web. I have to have two mice connected just in case this one throws me for a loop. It is a shame because I really like the feel of both the keyboard and the mouse. I just wish they worked.
That said, I can't say I would ever recommend this keyboard to any of my friends.
I've used a Microsoft keyboard and the only thing I didn't like about it was that it was ergonomic but the '6' was on the left instead of the right. My friend loves her Arc Mouse though, and doesn't seem to have any issues with the Surface Pro 3 keyboard.
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As someone who has a weird/non-standard typing technique, that gap in the middle is probably a deal-breaker.
My left index finger strikes "Y" while my right index finger strikes "B".
Traditional ergonomic keyboards with similar gaps have never been viable for that reason.
My left index finger strikes "Y" while my right index finger strikes "B".
Traditional ergonomic keyboards with similar gaps have never been viable for that reason.
Looking at my own typing, my left hand tends to float as far right as N, with the Y/H/B and U/J/N columns changing hand depending the word but my right hand almost universally a bit right of "home row" so my pinkie can hover over delete/enter/shift. I've never been able to comfortably use an ergonomic keyboard with the gap in the middle for the same reason.
I am really surprise that this story is getting as much upvotes as it did. As many have said, this is hardly new. It even looks [1] like that many that have been available before for the Palm and et al...
[1] https://www.google.de/search?q=folding+keyboard+for+palm&rlz...
[1] https://www.google.de/search?q=folding+keyboard+for+palm&rlz...
For me, the quality of a keyboard mostly comes from it's ergonomics. That mostly means tall, mechanical keys that give me tactile feedback about 2/3 press with some space to go. I can't imagine how you'd cram that kind of ergonomic into this flat form factor. It really looks like a torture instrument for the fingers. Did I miss some important point here?
I believe you confuse ergonomics with personal preferences.
Ergonomics means literally the "law of work" and was a science devoted to study how to improve productivity of people without breaking them, basically.
Then ergonomics' discoveries proved useful for other areas.
Now, tall mechanical keys are a personal preference of you, but this does not mean it being the best way to do it.
One question, is that really a personal preference or it is just the way you had been trained to use a keyboard?. Remember your first keyboard, how it was? it was tall with mechanical keys? how much time have you been using(trained on)tall mechanical keys keyboards?
I used to prefer working sitting down precisely before studying human factors and ergonomics. Working standing up looks terrible unhealthy until you dive into the data and realize that most of the problems comes from women using heels while working.
Then I discovered that the remainder of workers standing and moving while in work are in fact healthier than those that work sitting down. Sitting down all day is terrible for your health.
So I started working standing up a little and using a stool the rest of the time, put my computer at eye level.
At first I preferred the old way, because I had been trained since child for working sitting down. But one or two months later, when my body has adapted, I discovered the benefits were enormous. No way I could go back.
It is difficult for people to change a habit, but young people are raised with tablets and they will find awkward the concept of tall mechanical keys. After using Apple's keyboards for long I do too.
Ergonomics means literally the "law of work" and was a science devoted to study how to improve productivity of people without breaking them, basically.
Then ergonomics' discoveries proved useful for other areas.
Now, tall mechanical keys are a personal preference of you, but this does not mean it being the best way to do it.
One question, is that really a personal preference or it is just the way you had been trained to use a keyboard?. Remember your first keyboard, how it was? it was tall with mechanical keys? how much time have you been using(trained on)tall mechanical keys keyboards?
I used to prefer working sitting down precisely before studying human factors and ergonomics. Working standing up looks terrible unhealthy until you dive into the data and realize that most of the problems comes from women using heels while working.
Then I discovered that the remainder of workers standing and moving while in work are in fact healthier than those that work sitting down. Sitting down all day is terrible for your health.
So I started working standing up a little and using a stool the rest of the time, put my computer at eye level.
At first I preferred the old way, because I had been trained since child for working sitting down. But one or two months later, when my body has adapted, I discovered the benefits were enormous. No way I could go back.
It is difficult for people to change a habit, but young people are raised with tablets and they will find awkward the concept of tall mechanical keys. After using Apple's keyboards for long I do too.
No. It will be like typing on a laptop keyboard, I imagine. I imagine the main requirement is just that it be a lot better than typing on your phone, which fortunately is a pretty low bar, allowing them to focus on saving space even if it's at the expense of a bit of key feel.
I had a Pocket-Top folding keyboard that I used with my Sharp Zaurus over ten years ago ... There are a ton of these already on the market [1]. I'll admit this one looks pretty nice.
[1] http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Afold...
[1] http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Afold...
If it uses so little power...
Is charging the battery using solar power, like an old-style pocket calculator, practical? Just embed a few tens of square centimeters of cells under plastic on the edge of the keyboard. As a bonus, that means you don't have to permit anybody to open the thing ever, which grants you the ability to make it waterproof.
Is charging the battery using solar power, like an old-style pocket calculator, practical? Just embed a few tens of square centimeters of cells under plastic on the edge of the keyboard. As a bonus, that means you don't have to permit anybody to open the thing ever, which grants you the ability to make it waterproof.
I've got a Logitech (non-folding) solar-powered keyboard. Happy to report it's been working for nearly a year now using that delicious sun energy.
Being a sceptic, I did also put it in a sock drawer for a few days after use to see if it would fail to charge. It failed to turn on after that until I'd left it in the sun for a while.
Being a sceptic, I did also put it in a sock drawer for a few days after use to see if it would fail to charge. It failed to turn on after that until I'd left it in the sun for a while.
The thing about the low power being that the battery, still sizable, would last weeks/months even working in the dark in a cave at 0 lux, while indoor lightbulbs at 100-1,000 lux (desk usage) would provide enough energy to sustain a full charge without any deliberate charging activity in full sunlight at 10,000-100,000 lux.
I find myself getting excited by Microsoft's new vision of fully-capable computing anywhere. If the HoloLens actually winds up being able to substitute for a desktop monitor, you could fire up a full desktop experience with just a smartphone, bluetooth mouse, and one of these keyboards.
The future of PCs are phones that you lay next to keyboards, mice, and monitors. The best of both worlds.
I groaned and then was pleasantly surprised. It's a solid and well done product. Good battery life. Incredibly low profile. The easy toggle between two paired devices is awesome. Who cares if they were not the first people to do any of this? Anyway, I'd buy one.
Dell Axim X5 Folding keyboard from 2002 was awesome!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqHOYwxCzwo
I would love to have a folding keyboard again that was bluetooth.
I would love to have a folding keyboard again that was bluetooth.
Everything about the Dell Axim was awesome. I miss mine a lot.
They really don't like touch keyboards do they :-)
Having said that Microsoft IMHO are much better at hardware than software anyway so it could well be a decent keyboard - but original - nope - had one of these 10 years ago.
Having said that Microsoft IMHO are much better at hardware than software anyway so it could well be a decent keyboard - but original - nope - had one of these 10 years ago.
You know, if this was a foldable ergonomic keyboard, and also supported OSX/GNU Linux I'd be down. A standard keyboard though, well I can get a nice smallish mechanical switch one for a hundred bucks.
[deleted]
Couldn't they just use bluetooth to connect it with laptop keyboards. I'll use that. Most of the times I have my laptop open along with my tablet and phone.
I would gladly buy something less portable than that if it was still at least somewhat portable and was half as comfortable as Microsoft's Natural Keyboard line.
so it's a nicer looking iGo Stowaway (http://www.amazon.com/Stowaway-Ultra-Slim-Bluetooth-Blackber...). I got one back in the early 2000s for my Nokia smartphone, and still use it, although with some Androids it has issues because it uses an odd Bluetooth profile.
The question is - does it have some kind of magnet that keep it folded, or it will open in your bag/backpack freely and get all messy?
Microsoft always had great hardware. Their Original gray Intellimouse has probably been the best $20 mouse your money could by.
Why is it so hard to create good keyboard these days? Where are Page Up, Page Down, Home, End and Insert keys?
I use a Microsoft Bluetooth wedge keyboard with my android tablet a lot, the cover makes an excellent stand.
I've really like the idea. I would like to test that keyboard at work (coding)
They just can't get away from the past. Sad.
Did they removed the windows logo from it? <3
Seems neat.
You people remember this one?
http://www.geek.com/hwswrev/pda/palmvx/palmkey.jpg
You people remember this one?
http://www.geek.com/hwswrev/pda/palmvx/palmkey.jpg
Meh .... one more thing to carry around.
[deleted]
All I can say is that Apple is probably on to something with their new Macbooks, if people really want to use a keyboard with a tablet.
On a completely different sidenote; it seems microsoft adopted Wordpress as publishing platform. At least for that site.
Not a word about encryption?
Definitely a well thought out product for the everyday use. I can see this being hyped up quickly
I had a tri-fold one from Taurus back in the day. Worked really great with my pocketpc.
$20 chinese clones (from the factory next to the microsoft one) available in August.
This is almost perfect. They didn't reinvent the keyboard of course, and I expect the typing experience to be somewhat crap but still... compared to a 5inch touchscreen and for $99?
Wait - how in the world is a bluetooth keyboard not be compatible with Android 4.2, iOS 6, etc? [1] Isn't a bluetooth keyboard, a bluetooth keyboard? Is "support" defined as "exactly what is says on the label" (months of battery life), or "pairs; keystrokes appear on the screen"?
(10 minutes later of googling later)
Maybe I have partially answered this for myself: This claims bluetooth LE (4.0), and these are the OSes that "do not support it". Question: Is the 4.0 Low Energy mode "exclusive"? Can 4.0 hardware talk to 3.0 devices, even if they draw more power?
(to the wikipedia stations)
If I know Microsoft at all, this will be exclusively LE and it will suck. If you claim "months of battery life"[3] you can just as well throw in an "unofficial" fallback mode to the classic stack to make it work with, oh-only every device built since the late 90s, even if it is "weeks" of battery life.
It is just like MS to introduce an artificial limitation of only talking to 2012+ stuff for no reason... ("almost there"). Although I genuinely hope I'm wrong.
On the plus side, if this is the case, I would stake a considerable amount of my fortune (let's call it $10) that within months of release, some chinese manufacturer will come out with a close-enough version of it which will play with all the bluetooths, even if "accidentally" (older chips being cheaper). That will be a laugh and a definite purchase, and that will make this rant relevant, because I'll be all clairvoyant-in-the-downvotes.[4]
[1] http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/support/compatibilit... then select the UFK from the dropdown. MS, where's my permalink?
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy
[3] Not holding my breath about this. We'll see.
[4] Parting thought: Bluetooth is as old as USB. That blows my mind a little.
Wait - how in the world is a bluetooth keyboard not be compatible with Android 4.2, iOS 6, etc? [1] Isn't a bluetooth keyboard, a bluetooth keyboard? Is "support" defined as "exactly what is says on the label" (months of battery life), or "pairs; keystrokes appear on the screen"?
(10 minutes later of googling later)
Maybe I have partially answered this for myself: This claims bluetooth LE (4.0), and these are the OSes that "do not support it". Question: Is the 4.0 Low Energy mode "exclusive"? Can 4.0 hardware talk to 3.0 devices, even if they draw more power?
(to the wikipedia stations)
Bluetooth Smart is not backward-compatible with the previous, often called Classic, Bluetooth protocol. The Bluetooth 4.0 specification permits devices to implement either or both of the LE and Classic systems[2]
If I know Microsoft at all, this will be exclusively LE and it will suck. If you claim "months of battery life"[3] you can just as well throw in an "unofficial" fallback mode to the classic stack to make it work with, oh-only every device built since the late 90s, even if it is "weeks" of battery life.
It is just like MS to introduce an artificial limitation of only talking to 2012+ stuff for no reason... ("almost there"). Although I genuinely hope I'm wrong.
On the plus side, if this is the case, I would stake a considerable amount of my fortune (let's call it $10) that within months of release, some chinese manufacturer will come out with a close-enough version of it which will play with all the bluetooths, even if "accidentally" (older chips being cheaper). That will be a laugh and a definite purchase, and that will make this rant relevant, because I'll be all clairvoyant-in-the-downvotes.[4]
[1] http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/support/compatibilit... then select the UFK from the dropdown. MS, where's my permalink?
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy
[3] Not holding my breath about this. We'll see.
[4] Parting thought: Bluetooth is as old as USB. That blows my mind a little.
Bluetooth LE is a good thing. It means that the keyboard will pair quickly and consistently, which has not been my experience with older bluetooth keyboards. Worse, because power consumption is significantly higher, those keyboards tend to go idle and unpair themselves frequently, which means when you start typing, it takes a few seconds you generally lose a few keystrokes while the keyboard repairs.
Bluetooth LE is indeed a good thing when you have it. The opportunity to support "vintage" hardware would have cost next to nothing. If you had even one non-LE device, wouldn't you rather it could fall back?
> compared to a 5inch touchscreen and for $99?
You can find foldable bluetooth keyboards on AliExpress/DealExtreme/etc. for roughly 2/3 to 1/2 that price. Probably not BT 4.0 though.
You can find foldable bluetooth keyboards on AliExpress/DealExtreme/etc. for roughly 2/3 to 1/2 that price. Probably not BT 4.0 though.
BLE and Bluetooth are not really that related.
"Universal Foldable Keyboard".
People who use it are to be called UFK'ers
People who use it are to be called UFK'ers
Okay cool that they showed an iPhone and not just MSFT devices.
Any keyboard task switching on iOS yet?
That would be awesome.
This is what the front page has become.
Props for using an iPhone.
I use a Microsoft keyboard at the desktop, because it's curved. For tablet, I cannot go back to flat like this. I use the Goldtouch Go!2, which is foldable and curved, and the Twiddler, which is handheld.
Apparently, time.com reinvited browser scrolling, too. Automatic tab-close for me.
That's awesome, this looks great!
Not a novel idea :) Had one of these for a Sony Clie back in 2003-2004. Boy do I miss that thing.
Are people finally realizing how terrible touch interfaces are? Is it really happening?
Now someone needs to reinvent the mouse to go with this keyboard!
Now someone needs to reinvent the mouse to go with this keyboard!
Again, it seems that lately MS can do no wrong :). I know this form factor existed before, but being build by MS and providing solid experience, this is huge.
I love Microsoft's keyboards. I use their Sculpt ergonomic keyboard day to day and it is such a nice piece of kit. Similar width to the apple wireless keyboard but in a far more comfortable form factor.
This is neat and all, but what would be really nice is if the keyboard actually folded into the tablet in some way. Why has no-one thought of that before?
/s
/s
I don't own a smart phone, or a tablet, and this is even more of a reason that I won't be buying one.. If you are so tied up with work, or your home office, or social media, then this is not what you need, you need a life.
I would think that not owning a smartphone or a tablet would be a really great reason for not owning one. Is there more... like were you already dead set against this keyboard, but then you were like "Shit.. I don't even own a smartphone, or a tablet..." Anyway... your point's are moot. The only reason someone would want to own one of these is specifically for social media... nevermind. You did cover that one. My mistake.
Or maybe you need to be more productive. Or maybe "a life" isn't the same for everyone.
This is going to revolutionize computing. It took Microsoft to step up and develop something revolutionary to how we interact with our devices. And the best part is not that it's just one device, but all devices. I can use this at my workstation, my tablet, my cell phone, my watch. This is going to usher in a new age of Access. Not just computing but information available to the fingertips of every human on Earth. A New dawn.
Perhaps I'm nearly alone in this, but this just wouldn't work for me. I learned typing on my own, and I don't use the home row. My hands wander of their own regard across the keyboard, and I still pull above 100 words per minute. I understand the necessity of a folding point, but this just makes the product unusable for me.
In any case, this time.com post is just blogspam. Here’s Microsoft’s page that all the content comes from: http://blogs.microsoft.com/firehose/2015/03/02/get-more-done...
And here’s another third party page with some more pictures: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/132994-microsoft-universal-f...
Here’s discussion at geekhack, a keyboard enthusiast forum: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69498
For a keyboard attacking the same ultraportable market, the upcoming TextBlade keyboard seems like a much more interesting sort of new idea: https://waytools.com/products/textblade/1/trailer