OP-Z Synthesizer(teenage.engineering)
teenage.engineering
OP-Z Synthesizer
https://teenage.engineering/products/op-z
117 コメント
Awesome! How did you find out about this project? I've been looking to work on a project like this and didn't find them.
I have also seen this project while looking for an open source VST in a pi-box thing. Looks really neat.
There are a couple of these kinds of devices you might not have tuned into yet, namely:
Axoloti:
http://www.axoloti.com/
(There are great cases/knobs/button boxes for this, for example check this thread out for the mad directions things can take: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158092)
Organelle:
https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle
Another very cute, very programmable portable digital synth ..
And then there are things like this, which I had the pleasure of playing recently at superbooth:
Sonicware ELZ1:
https://www.sonicware.jp/elz-1-1
So, yeah .. lots of little portable, digital and analog synths in the OP-1/-Z style format.
Axoloti:
http://www.axoloti.com/
(There are great cases/knobs/button boxes for this, for example check this thread out for the mad directions things can take: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158092)
Organelle:
https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle
Another very cute, very programmable portable digital synth ..
And then there are things like this, which I had the pleasure of playing recently at superbooth:
Sonicware ELZ1:
https://www.sonicware.jp/elz-1-1
So, yeah .. lots of little portable, digital and analog synths in the OP-1/-Z style format.
At least in my case, I remember seeing them somewhere here on HN before. It's amazing project, for sure!
I have an OP-1 and an OP-Z. More and more I use the OP-Z, the sequencing workflow is just incredible. I don't have an ios device and after climbing the learning curve it's totally functional without a screen.
Also, the OP-Z can be used to sequence several pieces of external hardware at once [0]. Definitely not a toy. It has it's quirks (e.g. adding your own samples requires chopping them to exactly 6 seconds or all hell breaks loose, and no ability to "zoom in" on your sequence if you have multiple trigs per step) but it's a trade-off for all the power in the form factor.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHfCl6-xamM
Also, the OP-Z can be used to sequence several pieces of external hardware at once [0]. Definitely not a toy. It has it's quirks (e.g. adding your own samples requires chopping them to exactly 6 seconds or all hell breaks loose, and no ability to "zoom in" on your sequence if you have multiple trigs per step) but it's a trade-off for all the power in the form factor.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHfCl6-xamM
It is amazing what this tiny company has achieved with minimal resources.
Sometimes I feel someone should buy these guys and put their designers in charge of much bigger things.
(or maybe that's exactly how you kill talent)
Sometimes I feel someone should buy these guys and put their designers in charge of much bigger things.
(or maybe that's exactly how you kill talent)
Zoomings been in beta for ages. In the latest fw samples on synth tracks can be <=6 seconds and wav also.
Oh great, I need to update then! Is the beta available to test somewhere?
Whatever Teenage Engineering makes, it looks awesome and seems to be of great quality.
I randomly found out about them and started looking at a bunch of youtube videos, it made me really want to check those things out.
I ended up buying a PO-33 KO, it's super fun. Turns out I can't make music (and don't really care for it) but the quality of the product is awesome and I'd recommend to anyone interested in music.
I randomly found out about them and started looking at a bunch of youtube videos, it made me really want to check those things out.
I ended up buying a PO-33 KO, it's super fun. Turns out I can't make music (and don't really care for it) but the quality of the product is awesome and I'd recommend to anyone interested in music.
I'm in the same boat. I really like the product but have a really hard time creating anything enjoyable.
Same, I'm drawn to the buttons and knobs and flashing lights and cables though.
Is there any good tutorial or course out there on how to evolve from making a thing create random noises to actual music?
I mean this device is a big initial investment. The Pocket Operators less so though.
A colleague also showed me the Korg Monologue, which has a lot of things going for it (synthesizer + sampler built in one, only thing lacking maybe is drums / beats but you could hook it up to idk, GarageBand maybe and stream it through or add it later?)
Is there any good tutorial or course out there on how to evolve from making a thing create random noises to actual music?
I mean this device is a big initial investment. The Pocket Operators less so though.
A colleague also showed me the Korg Monologue, which has a lot of things going for it (synthesizer + sampler built in one, only thing lacking maybe is drums / beats but you could hook it up to idk, GarageBand maybe and stream it through or add it later?)
I started from scratch with ableton and have worked my way up to make decent techno music. [0] I've watched a ton of YouTube channels on production and just fiddled around with every effect. It's best to start out with a basic loop you enjoy and then iterate on it [1], if you're not feeling it, put it aside and work on another loop and come back later. In my opinion the most important thing is to try and imitate the things you like because it reveals a lot about the music, which is a good learning experience, and additionally about your own way of hearing etc. It's also important to see theory as a sort of praxis, most of the stuff is empiric and after the fact, nothing really matters, but it's useful to know for when you're stuck.
[0]: https://m.soundcloud.com/someotherorder/of-necessity-absolut...
[1]: https://m.soundcloud.com/someotherorder/vile-break/s-e7EV6
[0]: https://m.soundcloud.com/someotherorder/of-necessity-absolut...
[1]: https://m.soundcloud.com/someotherorder/vile-break/s-e7EV6
Very nice music! Thanks for sharing.
From talking to professional producers I know, it takes roughly 10 years of practice to produce music that’s professional quality. Those stories you see of 18 year old DJ’s knocking out number one records? Most of them have been taking music classes since they were small children (or someone else is producing their music for them).
So if you suck at it, that’s normal. You just have to stick with it.
So if you suck at it, that’s normal. You just have to stick with it.
Mmm you should watch some FL studio videos too, it’s all programming but FL was a shortcut for a lot of beats producers I’ve met in the wild. Music training def helps, sampling is alternate shortcut. I agree with yr comment but would reverse the paragraphs - it’s a learning curve and sucking is part of it but 10 years is too far away. Figure out what’s fun with it. Ableton is frustrating for someone who starts from zero but once you get going... there’s more stuff to get lost in.
Back to where I agree w you - OP and OPZ are really more tools for musicians who just need a cool keyboard. Seeing ppl who play live shows with them is nerd nirvana.
Back to where I agree w you - OP and OPZ are really more tools for musicians who just need a cool keyboard. Seeing ppl who play live shows with them is nerd nirvana.
Looping a couple of beats is not pro-quality music production.
There’s more to it than music theory. Even if you’re just slapping a couple of loops together there’s a lot of knowledge about djing and such that you need to have before you know what would be successful.
There’s more to it than music theory. Even if you’re just slapping a couple of loops together there’s a lot of knowledge about djing and such that you need to have before you know what would be successful.
10 years is probably a realistic mean. If you have experience with music, creative software and doesn't expect a finished product then it can take a shorter time of course. Teenage engineering were founded by marketers, they are selling dreams.
I've been sucking at music for over 20 years, but I still think it's fun. I think I agree with the 10 year mean though.
> Is there any good tutorial or course out there on how to evolve from making a thing create random noises to actual music?
Like anything else, you have to study it and do it a lot. I'm just starting myself. If you like book learnin', I read the book 'How Music Really Works' by Wayne Chase and found it very helpful in moving from making fun 10 second loops to actual songs. And of course learning an instrument (synths are instruments) is a whole separate task on top of learning how to compose music.
Like anything else, you have to study it and do it a lot. I'm just starting myself. If you like book learnin', I read the book 'How Music Really Works' by Wayne Chase and found it very helpful in moving from making fun 10 second loops to actual songs. And of course learning an instrument (synths are instruments) is a whole separate task on top of learning how to compose music.
>Is there any good tutorial or course out there on how to evolve from making a thing create random noises to actual music?
I can't name any specific tutorial, but what you need to understand are the ADSR (Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release) controls of samplers (and synthesizers), they're essentially sculpting tools for sound tones, and then the placement of these tones within a sequence, and expanding these sequences into song sections and an entire song.
If you want to to get somewhere quickly I'd start with mixing songs (DJ'ing) and then enhance those mixes with your own sounds, sections and later songs. Otherwise you'll need much longer until you're able to make a song, or get to something you're happy with.
Due to the ubiquity of music in our culture we're all experts basically, and hitting that bar is difficult if you start without a context like a mix that can guide your decisions.
Ableton is a DAW you could check out, it touches all aspects of music production and sound design and even DJ'ing, making it possible to approach production from different angles within the same program. Their learning resources are great.
Being familiar with programming could also help, because the way things are laid out and cascade is similar.
I can't name any specific tutorial, but what you need to understand are the ADSR (Attack, Decay, Sustain, Release) controls of samplers (and synthesizers), they're essentially sculpting tools for sound tones, and then the placement of these tones within a sequence, and expanding these sequences into song sections and an entire song.
If you want to to get somewhere quickly I'd start with mixing songs (DJ'ing) and then enhance those mixes with your own sounds, sections and later songs. Otherwise you'll need much longer until you're able to make a song, or get to something you're happy with.
Due to the ubiquity of music in our culture we're all experts basically, and hitting that bar is difficult if you start without a context like a mix that can guide your decisions.
Ableton is a DAW you could check out, it touches all aspects of music production and sound design and even DJ'ing, making it possible to approach production from different angles within the same program. Their learning resources are great.
Being familiar with programming could also help, because the way things are laid out and cascade is similar.
You might be thinking of a different korg product. The monologue is a pure analog budget monosynth. Which can totally do beat patterns using the onboard sequencer with a bit of clever motion sequencing.
A good way to start is taking a piece of music you like and trying to reproduce a reasonable facsimile. Going top down like this gives you some insight into the structure of music without having to start from “first principles”.
I'm of the opposite side of the fence - I get lured in by TE's design ethos, but find myself immediately un-inspired by the results. I've had two OP-1's, and an opportunity to play with their new modular synth, and .. it looks great. But it just sounds meh.
That said, I have refined my personal tastes for synth aesthetics over decades of investment. I just can't find the OP-1 worth the money, nor even effort to play - when there are so many other great devices out there for less hype.
Believe me, I try to love the OP-1 and OP-Z when I've had it in my hands. But I'd seriously just rather have a proper synth. The OP-1 feels like a piss-take.
That said, I have refined my personal tastes for synth aesthetics over decades of investment. I just can't find the OP-1 worth the money, nor even effort to play - when there are so many other great devices out there for less hype.
Believe me, I try to love the OP-1 and OP-Z when I've had it in my hands. But I'd seriously just rather have a proper synth. The OP-1 feels like a piss-take.
Audio production has lots of well designed products these days.
Also plenty of bad ones but still it's interesting if you're into electronics/technology.
Also plenty of bad ones but still it's interesting if you're into electronics/technology.
Some alternatives if the op-z isn’t quite hitting the spot for you:
Elektron Digitakt - powerful sampler / sequencer. No synth engine but you can make many synth sounds using single-cycle samples.
Elektron Digitone - same form-factor as above but with an fm synthesis engine (think yamaha dx7) instead of a sampler.
Novation Circuit - wayyy cheaper. Can play samples but not sample live. Powerful synth engine, not fully editable without a computer. Good for live improve with pre-composed patterns.
Elektron Digitakt - powerful sampler / sequencer. No synth engine but you can make many synth sounds using single-cycle samples.
Elektron Digitone - same form-factor as above but with an fm synthesis engine (think yamaha dx7) instead of a sampler.
Novation Circuit - wayyy cheaper. Can play samples but not sample live. Powerful synth engine, not fully editable without a computer. Good for live improve with pre-composed patterns.
Synthstrom Deluge (Synth, drums, amazing sequencer, sampler and soon to be live looper in v3) was the choice for me when considering TE products. I almost bought a bunch of Pocket Operators, then I looked at the cost and decided to just pull the trigger on what I really wanted and got a Deluge. I love it, so much.
The USP of the Deluge seems to be the isomorphic(?) chord keyboard. How did you find that to be? Was it easy to learn?
I admit I would love one but the price puts me off.
I admit I would love one but the price puts me off.
Personally the major selling point of the Deluge, and the reason I love it so much, is the sequencer. It's the most intuitive sequencer I've used and allows you to flow and work quickly.
The scale note keyboard is good, but not all that playable, a LaunchPad might be better for doing similar but with aftertouch and bigger pads. That said, it's a very welcome feature and easy to use for coming up with ideas and staying in key.
I am not a musician though, at all. I am rubbish at music, but the Deluge has helped me make smiles and dive into hours of sounds and beats I thought I'd never be able to make. I've spent time in Ableton and never got anything much out of mouse clicking, mostly just frustration with all the options and tedious input methods. With the Deluge I can turn it on and quickly lay down a simple chord progression, a drum beat, and make a bass line that satisfies. Then I twist filter knobs and mute tracks, and just jam on it for hours.
Oh, and its battery powered, so I take it everywhere. It's just such a wonderful piece of technology. Easily worth every penny I spent on it.
The scale note keyboard is good, but not all that playable, a LaunchPad might be better for doing similar but with aftertouch and bigger pads. That said, it's a very welcome feature and easy to use for coming up with ideas and staying in key.
I am not a musician though, at all. I am rubbish at music, but the Deluge has helped me make smiles and dive into hours of sounds and beats I thought I'd never be able to make. I've spent time in Ableton and never got anything much out of mouse clicking, mostly just frustration with all the options and tedious input methods. With the Deluge I can turn it on and quickly lay down a simple chord progression, a drum beat, and make a bass line that satisfies. Then I twist filter knobs and mute tracks, and just jam on it for hours.
Oh, and its battery powered, so I take it everywhere. It's just such a wonderful piece of technology. Easily worth every penny I spent on it.
Thanks - I looked at a video of the sequencer, and it seems a lot like the Tenori-On (which I have).
For me, the 1010Music Blackbox is a drum-machine/sequencing/sampling workstation to watch out for when it starts shipping, hopefully soon:
https://1010music.com/product/blackbox
Review here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcADNN9_Sok
https://1010music.com/product/blackbox
Review here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcADNN9_Sok
I know one better, Deluge Synthstrom. It's more expensive, but all of the above and ++
> (think yamaha dx7)
More properly, think Yamaha TX81Z + filter.
More properly, think Yamaha TX81Z + filter.
Octatrack and mpc live/x if you got the cash is also awesome.
Korg Electribe
Teenage Engineering make astonishing products you just want to own even though you have no use for them. There is something deeply aesthetically pleasing about their devices.
If the price hadn't been so steep for their OP-1 I would have bought one on impulse years ago.
If the price hadn't been so steep for their OP-1 I would have bought one on impulse years ago.
I've been traveling full-time for a year and living out of basically one big rolling-suitcase. Every time I'm back in the states, I convince myself to put the OP-1 in storage - it's just taking up weight, I could just as well use Ableton, etc...
...but I can never bring myself to leave it. I don't use it a ton, but when I do I get sucked into it for 4+ hours. I especially love to use it on long international flights (I read someplace this was one of the design goals), and my tape tracks are crammed with loops from the last 5 years - it's unexpectedly nostalgic to listen back.
I originally bought it because of that strange impulse you mentioned, at a time when I really shouldn't have been buying expensive synth-toys - but I'm so, so glad that I did. Totally encourage you to pick one up if you ever get the opportunity!
...but I can never bring myself to leave it. I don't use it a ton, but when I do I get sucked into it for 4+ hours. I especially love to use it on long international flights (I read someplace this was one of the design goals), and my tape tracks are crammed with loops from the last 5 years - it's unexpectedly nostalgic to listen back.
I originally bought it because of that strange impulse you mentioned, at a time when I really shouldn't have been buying expensive synth-toys - but I'm so, so glad that I did. Totally encourage you to pick one up if you ever get the opportunity!
I’m in a very similar situation with the OP-Z! No musical background, bought it because I was curious about the UI. I find myself getting sucked into it for hours at a time, even though I haven’t yet made a beat I’d be comfortable sharing.
My original plan was to sell the OP-Z after a few months, but now I think I will hold onto this thing until it dies.
My original plan was to sell the OP-Z after a few months, but now I think I will hold onto this thing until it dies.
> No musical background, bought it because I was curious about the UI. I find myself getting sucked into it for hours at a time, even though I haven’t yet made a beat I’d be comfortable sharing.
Study music theory! Seriously, it's more of a science than an art. The art comes in how you apply it. I made a huge jump from making little 10-second loops to making enjoyable music after I learned a little theory. It is well worth your time.
Study music theory! Seriously, it's more of a science than an art. The art comes in how you apply it. I made a huge jump from making little 10-second loops to making enjoyable music after I learned a little theory. It is well worth your time.
Yet most musicians are not consciously aware of theory while they make music. So you don’t really apply music theory, many great artists don’t actually know the theory much at all.
One of those moments where you wish you had fuck-you money.
Of course when you dive into electronic music you suddenly find out there's a lot of really sweet stuff you can spend a huge amount of money on. I've been fortunate that I've been able to play around with some stuff from e.g. Moog; it's really gratifying to play around with the knobs and such. I mean it's expensive, but it's also really high quality, doesn't depreciate much (vintage stuff even appreciates, especially if it's failed products that have been rediscovered for other music styles than originally intended / existed), etc.
Of course when you dive into electronic music you suddenly find out there's a lot of really sweet stuff you can spend a huge amount of money on. I've been fortunate that I've been able to play around with some stuff from e.g. Moog; it's really gratifying to play around with the knobs and such. I mean it's expensive, but it's also really high quality, doesn't depreciate much (vintage stuff even appreciates, especially if it's failed products that have been rediscovered for other music styles than originally intended / existed), etc.
> Teenage Engineering make astonishing products you just want to own even though you have no use for them. There is something deeply aesthetically pleasing about their devices.
Which reminds me of Apple.
Which reminds me of Apple.
I can't say the same for Apple anymore. When I see Apple products I have a feeling that is equal parts regret and sadness. I've come to associate Apple products with functionally flawed products.
I did, and unfortunately I use very rarely, because I simply don't have enough time to learn how to work efficiently with it.
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The decision to depend on an external device is going to suck in 30 years. This is where the OP1 shines. Meanwhile I have synthesizers from the 70's and 80's that still work well and sound amazing.
My sense is that it doesn't strictly rely on an external device - you can find your way to where you like without a screen... My long-term fear is what happens when the internal batteries get old.
(I love my OP-1 and pile of pocket operators; Teenage Engineering is doing amazing work.)
(I love my OP-1 and pile of pocket operators; Teenage Engineering is doing amazing work.)
Maybe I misunderstood the OP-Z manual but I think that some of the functionality of the OP-Z is only accessible if you connect it to an iOS device, e.g. the two features called Photomatic and Videolab.
PS some recent promotional material by TE said that the OP-Z app is iOS only "for now", so at least there is hope that it will become available on more platform.
PS some recent promotional material by TE said that the OP-Z app is iOS only "for now", so at least there is hope that it will become available on more platform.
Those are both at least 100% ancillary to it's function as a synth and sequencer and are kind of just fun extras for stuff like live performances.
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The battery is replaceable, not sure that it's a big concern. I'd kill to see open documented bindings for wireless interaction, as well as the ability to write custom synth engines, but really doesn't appear to be the direction for them.
This could be reverse engineered. If the Bluetooth connection is encrypted, there might be an additional step involving jailbreaking the iOS device (hard) or setting up some kind of MITM proxy. The rest shouldn't be too complicated. It sounds like TE might be working on an Android port; they just don't want to commit to it.
I have a Yamaha Motif Rack synth, from around 2004. It has software to aid in the parameter settings if you want to make a new sound. It is a advanced synth and quite complicated. The tiny screen and knobs on the front panel is very fiddly to use so software on a computer is a better solution. But I fear that in just a few years the 2004 software will not run on any new computer and I will have to keep old computers around to program the synth.
I have that issue on some current gear, most notably the Yamaha MagicStomp. An amazing pedal, still prized by many looking for certain sounds. Handicapped by windows xp only software that just barely runs on a Win7. I keep an old laptop around for that and 2 other devices. Its not a sustainable situation, and many neat devices are becoming impractical if not imposible to use a decade on.
I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to run the software forever -- after all virtualization, DOSbox and whatever means we can run both recently old and ancient software. But I came to say has no one reverse engineered the protocol and implemented open source software for it?
You do ‘t happen to have a spare CS-80 or Jupiter 8 lying around about to make its way to the trash heap do you? I could take either of your hands, free of charge ;-P
On similar note: I am so addicted to the programmable synthesizer http://foxdot.org/
Every programmer/musician (or music-curious) owes themselves a look at Supercollider https://supercollider.github.io/.
// two band limited square waves thru a resonant low pass filter
{ RLPF.ar(Pulse.ar([100,250],0.5,0.1), XLine.kr(8000,400,5), 0.05) }.play;
Or if Ruby is your jam, here's a Ruby+Supercollider mashup: https://sonic-pi.net/
This looks amazing! How steep would you say is the learning curve? Is it worth it?
Foxdot is based on Python so if you know Python you can get going making beats pretty quickly. It's great fun to play with but I think it takes time to get used to thinking of melodies in terms of numbers rather than frets or keys. I'm now spending some time learning Supercollider which Foxdot uses to make sounds.
I played with one of these a month or so ago and will definitely get one for my more musically oriented child to play around with. They're fun and a different way at making synthesized sounds, the UI is reminiscent of handheld game consoles. Beware though, these could very well be a gateway drug to a house full of gear ;)
You can't ever overcome synth GAS... I have a music studio full of latest greatest toys and it's never enough... Better excise it right in the beginning or you are lost forever ;-)
Wow, it’s quite expensive, especially in comparison with recent gen of affordable synths.
Can you point to some affordable recommendable synths?
I've recently played with the Korg Monologue, it's a solid machine, analog synthesizer and step sequencer, enough standard ports to extend it eventually - a criticism to the device mentioned in the OP is that it's pretty nonstandard in a bigger workflow. It's < $300, still not cheap but a pretty good package overall.
A lower price is the Korg Volca, at $100 - $150 per unit. They're less versatile though and you'll probably end up having to buy / link up multiple.
Even lower and you're looking at stuff like the Teenage Engineering Pocket Operator series, single card devices in the $70 range. There's a wide range of variations, each of which (correct me if I'm wrong) has 16 instruments and a programmable step sequencer, 16 patterns preloaded. The preloaded patterns have only 16 steps, but you can program it to have more than that and switch between patterns every 16 beats. You can link up multiple together as well, they can synchronize with one another (iirc you have to hook up your phone as the first step which generates a synchronization signal).
A lower price is the Korg Volca, at $100 - $150 per unit. They're less versatile though and you'll probably end up having to buy / link up multiple.
Even lower and you're looking at stuff like the Teenage Engineering Pocket Operator series, single card devices in the $70 range. There's a wide range of variations, each of which (correct me if I'm wrong) has 16 instruments and a programmable step sequencer, 16 patterns preloaded. The preloaded patterns have only 16 steps, but you can program it to have more than that and switch between patterns every 16 beats. You can link up multiple together as well, they can synchronize with one another (iirc you have to hook up your phone as the first step which generates a synchronization signal).
Arturia microbrute is a great first analog monosynth.
The Arturia microfreak is an interesting new digital synth in a similar form factor.
The Yamaha Reface CS is an 8-voice virtual analog synth with a very understandable layout. Basically a juno 106 in an apartment-sized form factor.
As someone else mentioned, the volcas are a great starting point, and the korg monologue has an oscilloscope built in that makes learning sound design surprisingly understandable.
Just my opinion, but I think you should stay away from the Roland Boutique synths. I found them very unpleasant to use and not inspiring at all. I have not used the 808/909 drum machine boutiques - they may be better.
You can always go vintage. E.g. Some of the 2000s grooveboxes (electribes, various roland mc-xxx things) can be had for $100-200 on craigslist, and will be a ton of fun.
The Arturia microfreak is an interesting new digital synth in a similar form factor.
The Yamaha Reface CS is an 8-voice virtual analog synth with a very understandable layout. Basically a juno 106 in an apartment-sized form factor.
As someone else mentioned, the volcas are a great starting point, and the korg monologue has an oscilloscope built in that makes learning sound design surprisingly understandable.
Just my opinion, but I think you should stay away from the Roland Boutique synths. I found them very unpleasant to use and not inspiring at all. I have not used the 808/909 drum machine boutiques - they may be better.
You can always go vintage. E.g. Some of the 2000s grooveboxes (electribes, various roland mc-xxx things) can be had for $100-200 on craigslist, and will be a ton of fun.
Korg KO2S. It's a synthesizer, but in a rather unusual package (so if you're looking for something with a piano keyboard, look elsewhere). It's a huge amount of fun and you can at least to some extent write proper music on it. It's also for what it is capable of very inexpensive.
The Arturia MicroFreak is a great little synth.
Same as sibling comments, and I would add that if you’re interested in modular fun, there is now a Volca Modular and in a slightly more expensive bracket, the Behringer Neutron has a ton of features for the money.
How does it compare to Novation Circuit (my favorite travel toy) or Deluge?
Looks like a cool product. Couldn't see how much it costs.
Pity it only works with ios. I have one and like a lot of things about Android, but they really dropped the ball with no low-latency audio support.
Pity it only works with ios. I have one and like a lot of things about Android, but they really dropped the ball with no low-latency audio support.
The OP-Z is cute, but I’ve been looking for an iOS synth app that comes close to the OP-1 experience for a long while - in my view, it is a much nicer synth.
Do take a look at Korg Gadget - it is a tremendous piece of software. VERY easy to pick up and just jam even with the vanilla synths (Chiang Mai is one big sweet spot), but really also deep enough to produce pro level tracks. The additional KORG synths (especially the wave station and ODYSSEi) are high end emulations and basically indistinguishable from the original hardware.
I would say indistinguishable is an overstatement.
One of my favorite OP-1/OP-Z artists just did a video with a whole bunch of iOS apps -- doesn't make it any more affordable when you price them all, but at least you can mix and match the parts you want: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d12SNIcO32Q
Oh yes, Red Means Recording. Long time fan. :)
If you find it, let me know!
I have tried:
GarageBand - powerful, but hard to get into full flow. Frustrating lack of deep dive - you can tweak presets but not build patches from scratch.
Korg Gadget - full control over the synths. Pretty good piano-roll style editing, but hard to record live. Also, I think it’s something in the default reverb that gives everything a very contemporary sound... not great if you’re not a fan of that sound.
I have tried:
GarageBand - powerful, but hard to get into full flow. Frustrating lack of deep dive - you can tweak presets but not build patches from scratch.
Korg Gadget - full control over the synths. Pretty good piano-roll style editing, but hard to record live. Also, I think it’s something in the default reverb that gives everything a very contemporary sound... not great if you’re not a fan of that sound.
I have Korg Gadget and I also like Groovebox. It's more limited than Gadget but I think that makes it easier to get started.
I guess I'm not in the target market, but how do you play this musical instrument? It looks like it doesn't have much in the way of a keyboard?
That's a good price.
I'm not convinced, particularly given Teenage Engineering's pricing history.
I root for them, absolutely. But their stuff carries a premium and is technically limited, generally fulfilling a novelty space.
The big win here is the visual stuff, but again I'm not sure that justifies the price.
I root for them, absolutely. But their stuff carries a premium and is technically limited, generally fulfilling a novelty space.
The big win here is the visual stuff, but again I'm not sure that justifies the price.
I was thinking of getting one but considering the price point, there are far too many stories of broken devices and slow/non-existent support:
https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bpxuyl/second_op_... https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bokuo5/te/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bnkcro/keybed_rep...
If they treat people paying 1300 USD for a device like that, can’t imagine how they’ll handle OP-Z owners.
I love the all-in-one idea and getting away from the DAW but it feels too risky to me.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bpxuyl/second_op_... https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bokuo5/te/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/bnkcro/keybed_rep...
If they treat people paying 1300 USD for a device like that, can’t imagine how they’ll handle OP-Z owners.
I love the all-in-one idea and getting away from the DAW but it feels too risky to me.
One datapoint to the contrary - I had an excellent experience with their support. Shortly after I bought my original OP-1 (the $800 version), I managed to brick it during a firmware update (my computer died while loading the new FW IIRC). They're a Swedish company but had an "authorized repair" guy based in the states, so I just dropped it in the mail and had it back in about a week.
Can't remember if they covered shipping, but they were super communicative through the whole process.
This was a few years ago, so maybe that's changed!
Can't remember if they covered shipping, but they were super communicative through the whole process.
This was a few years ago, so maybe that's changed!
I might change the word novelty with "boutique".
They are building "fun" interfaces but the korg montron's are more a "novelty".
They are building "fun" interfaces but the korg montron's are more a "novelty".
I would never call OP-1 limited. I haven't touched the OP-Z but I doubt I'd think it's "technically limited" as well.
I'd say that the OP-1 is probably one of the better designed musical instruments in the recent past.
I'd say that the OP-1 is probably one of the better designed musical instruments in the recent past.
TE make toys - finely designed and polished toys supported by a finely designed and polished web site. But still toys.
OP-1 has a lot of options that make you feel like you're making music, when in fact you're trapped in an endless round of "What happens if I...?" inside the feature space.
Hence the novelty tag. They're not particularly productive instruments, but they can be a fun way to pass an hour or two.
A software environment like Max, PD, or Reaktor is much less limited. But the learning curve is much steeper, and the instant gratification factor much lower.
And then there are the code-based environments like Supercollider, in which you can implement the OP-1 sequencers and synths with a few lines of code, and easily create your own variations - but the learning curve for non-coders might as well be vertical, and it's not shallow even for experienced coders.
OP-1 has a lot of options that make you feel like you're making music, when in fact you're trapped in an endless round of "What happens if I...?" inside the feature space.
Hence the novelty tag. They're not particularly productive instruments, but they can be a fun way to pass an hour or two.
A software environment like Max, PD, or Reaktor is much less limited. But the learning curve is much steeper, and the instant gratification factor much lower.
And then there are the code-based environments like Supercollider, in which you can implement the OP-1 sequencers and synths with a few lines of code, and easily create your own variations - but the learning curve for non-coders might as well be vertical, and it's not shallow even for experienced coders.
> A software environment like Max, PD, or Reaktor is much less limited. But the learning curve is much steeper, and the instant gratification factor much lower.
I think comparing any physical keyboard synth/sequencer to the full desktop software is going to make the device look like a toy in comparison. It's apples and oranges in terms of available power and interface and really purpose.
I think comparing any physical keyboard synth/sequencer to the full desktop software is going to make the device look like a toy in comparison. It's apples and oranges in terms of available power and interface and really purpose.
Jean-Michel Jarre doesn't seem to think it's just a toy, but I guess you are a bigger authority on the subject.
https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2012/05/jarre-synth
Your disdain for the device out of the box may be warranted but that could be said for any pre-programmed music device ever released including the Casio keyboard that still takes C batteries but has an adjustable bpm.
yea... no.
https://streamable.com/ued04
made this in bed at 3am last night...like any device people do not put in the work to learn how to use it musically, then claim its a toy. theres tons of threads from people like you on muffwiggler talking about how the minilogue is a toy. nah man, you're just talking out your elbow.
you should read up on why Bon Iver ditched bringing his guitar with him on his travels, and replaced it with an op-1.
https://streamable.com/ued04
made this in bed at 3am last night...like any device people do not put in the work to learn how to use it musically, then claim its a toy. theres tons of threads from people like you on muffwiggler talking about how the minilogue is a toy. nah man, you're just talking out your elbow.
you should read up on why Bon Iver ditched bringing his guitar with him on his travels, and replaced it with an op-1.
TE products (particularly the OP1) are used by artists like Radiohead, Bon Iver, Sufjan Stevens, Nine Inch Nails, CHVRCHES, Animal Collective, MGMT.
I would call it limited. In fact, even Jesper Kouthoofd, the CEO of TE, would call it limited. From PUSH TURN MOVE (an amazing book on UI design in synthesizers) - "And to be creative, you often need many limitations. Suppose you have an endless canvas to work on - the result is that you can't even start."
I think the limitations of the OP-1 are one of its strengths. Anyone can dive into it and start making music. And once you really learn the device, you can do some really great stuff with it. I think any artist is made better by limitations. It's when creativity shines.
That being said, I think it's current price point is a bit high. I got mine for $899 which I thought was steep, I was literally the last order before they raised the price to $999, then $1099, and now $1299. It's wonderfully built, a lot of fun, but $1300 is a lot. I can't say that I would pay that much for it.
I think the limitations of the OP-1 are one of its strengths. Anyone can dive into it and start making music. And once you really learn the device, you can do some really great stuff with it. I think any artist is made better by limitations. It's when creativity shines.
That being said, I think it's current price point is a bit high. I got mine for $899 which I thought was steep, I was literally the last order before they raised the price to $999, then $1099, and now $1299. It's wonderfully built, a lot of fun, but $1300 is a lot. I can't say that I would pay that much for it.
Yeah that's why I would just build my own video synth its not that difficult to do and stick with pocket operators which are under $100. Especially since op-z can't record digital tracks or sample like the op-1.
Sampling is on the way! TE demoed it at Superbooth.
https://www.opzed.com/news/sampling-coming-soon.html
https://www.opzed.com/news/sampling-coming-soon.html
what is a competing device that says this price isn’t justified?
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There's lots of good sequencers at that price point, or cheaper. E.g. check out NI's Maschine range.
The OP-1 isn't just a sequencer. It is a synth, a sequencer, a sampler (which even includes an internal FM radio if you need a creative source), etc.
You should explore the machine if you get the chance or watch some of the stuff people do with it. It is a great creative instrument.
You should explore the machine if you get the chance or watch some of the stuff people do with it. It is a great creative instrument.
just as a note, the original post is discussing the op-z and not the op-1, although responses to criticism of both instruments is usually the same in that they do way more than people think. :)
? that's not even in the same product category. the maschine requires constant connection to a computer. and none of the maschine line is the size of a tv remote with a long-lasting battery.
in addition, the op-z is not just a sequencer. even if you considered it just a sequencer, it can sequence multiple audio tracks, cv tracks, and a video track.
in addition, the op-z is not just a sequencer. even if you considered it just a sequencer, it can sequence multiple audio tracks, cv tracks, and a video track.
Proprietary device with proprietary bindings. I like pocket operators a lot, but this seems like TE is going the opposite of where I wished they would...
it has midi over both usb and bluetooth (low energy), which both should be considered standards.
what a strange stance. what would you have them do?
and if you want an open source “portable keyboard thing”, then there’s already the organelle. it is no surprise it isn’t much cheaper and isn’t as well designed, for both hardware and software.
https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle
and if you want an open source “portable keyboard thing”, then there’s already the organelle. it is no surprise it isn’t much cheaper and isn’t as well designed, for both hardware and software.
https://www.critterandguitari.com/organelle
An HDMI/USB port, alongside access not simply for Unity but also for raw data for use with OpenGL and whatnot. It's not an unreasonable request.
That is an unreasonable request. It contradicts their modus operandi and demands the earth, moon, and stars of an off-the-shelf product so that a niche - game developers - can build profitable tools on top of it while paying them nothing for the privilege.
Dang, times sure have changed. Back in my good ol' days...
It has a usb-c port for MIDI-out
it does not have the processing power to render the graphics itself - so an hdmi port wouldn't be possible.
what does that even mean?
like others said, it doesn't do the video processing itself, which is why they are able to make the battery life so long and the size of the device so small. and that's why it doesn't need or can't have an hdmi port. it makes perfect sense to offload that to another device that most everyone already has.
what does "raw data for use with opengl" mean? the integration into unity should provide the ability to implement rather extensive video sequencing ideas. there are a few people i follow on twitter that i have seen do rather complicated stuff, and that's because unity is rather nice.
i am just curious what your use cases are to want these extra features that you can't already do with the instrument, and what that has to do with it being a "proprietary" device.
like others said, it doesn't do the video processing itself, which is why they are able to make the battery life so long and the size of the device so small. and that's why it doesn't need or can't have an hdmi port. it makes perfect sense to offload that to another device that most everyone already has.
what does "raw data for use with opengl" mean? the integration into unity should provide the ability to implement rather extensive video sequencing ideas. there are a few people i follow on twitter that i have seen do rather complicated stuff, and that's because unity is rather nice.
i am just curious what your use cases are to want these extra features that you can't already do with the instrument, and what that has to do with it being a "proprietary" device.
The progress made by the guys these last months is impressive, and both the UI and hardware aestetics really shines (while they are inspired by the OP1, they now have their own personality)