Chrome extension recommends local businesses while shopping on Amazon or eBay(chrome.google.com)
chrome.google.com
Chrome extension recommends local businesses while shopping on Amazon or eBay
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/buy-nearby/egoikpnpdihpdfenconkdnndbnhcfmkj
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I've wanted to dive into FPV drone flying for some time. Finally pulled the trigger on the components I needed to get started...controller, transmitter, goggles, charger, battery, BNF drone. I did this online because it seemed impossible to sort out locally and the prices I did see were +30% or more in price.
Somehow in the process I goofed and ordered batteries with the wrong connector (xt60 v xt30). I spent this morning trying to find other batteries or an adapter in the local metro area.
- There are ~8 hobby stores within 50 miles
- None of them have any stock info online
- I called every one of them and nobody stocked the battery I need, nor an adapter.
- I can go on Amazon, GetFPV, HobbyKing, ReadyMadeRC, etc and find the exact parts I need.
In the same vein I've noticed is that many of the traditional sporting goods stores have basically become clothing stores with an online store for everything else.
Too bad I haven't figured out how to trust random extensions or I would consider using something like this.
All of this said I used to work at a local computer store back in the 90's and can imagine just how difficult it is to run a local store that competes with Internet-based stores.
Somehow in the process I goofed and ordered batteries with the wrong connector (xt60 v xt30). I spent this morning trying to find other batteries or an adapter in the local metro area.
- There are ~8 hobby stores within 50 miles
- None of them have any stock info online
- I called every one of them and nobody stocked the battery I need, nor an adapter.
- I can go on Amazon, GetFPV, HobbyKing, ReadyMadeRC, etc and find the exact parts I need.
In the same vein I've noticed is that many of the traditional sporting goods stores have basically become clothing stores with an online store for everything else.
Too bad I haven't figured out how to trust random extensions or I would consider using something like this.
All of this said I used to work at a local computer store back in the 90's and can imagine just how difficult it is to run a local store that competes with Internet-based stores.
> Somehow in the process I goofed and ordered batteries with the wrong connector (xt60 v xt30). I spent this morning trying to find other batteries or an adapter in the local metro area.
As someone with direct experience in this whole class of hardware (hobbyist grade UAS stuff), you're going to want to have a soldering setup and low cost consumables (heat shrink tubing, etc, extra connectors that cost a few dollars each) to have your own capability to do things like change out DC power connectors. It's totally normal to get a battery with a connector that you might not want.
If you stay in the hobby for the long run it will cost you a lot less money to have the capability to buy discrete parts and repair things yourself (example: buying a new $40 4-in-1 ESC) than buying bind and fly stuff.
As someone with direct experience in this whole class of hardware (hobbyist grade UAS stuff), you're going to want to have a soldering setup and low cost consumables (heat shrink tubing, etc, extra connectors that cost a few dollars each) to have your own capability to do things like change out DC power connectors. It's totally normal to get a battery with a connector that you might not want.
If you stay in the hobby for the long run it will cost you a lot less money to have the capability to buy discrete parts and repair things yourself (example: buying a new $40 4-in-1 ESC) than buying bind and fly stuff.
For a lot of hobbies involving electronics having a decent soldering station (and possibly a decent hot air station) is extremely useful. A Hakko FX-888D isn’t terribly expensive, but even a Pinecil or TS-100 will get you far for cheap.
Indeed so, and even some $80 soldering stations sold on amazon are remarkably not terrible these days. Some even come with hot air guns. somewhat randomly chosen example:
https://www.amazon.com/YIHUA-Soldering-Conversion-Temperatur...
https://www.amazon.com/YIHUA-Soldering-Conversion-Temperatur...
I’m always wary of no-name stations not because I think they’re inherently garbage or something, but that few people who really care about a quality station would give them a passing glance so reviews come from people who have no idea what even makes a quality station. I have seen tear downs of Hakko counterfeits that could be confused for the real thing and others that have serious reliability, consistency of safety issues - and these random Chinese direct-to-Amazon ones have the same problems.
Do they probably work most of the time? Sure. But I want the temperature display to mean 500C when it reads 500C and not 450C, and for my iron to be up to temperature just as quick as my FX-888D does without being a fire hazard or potentially let out the magic smoke because some cheap component died.
That said, if anybody is looking for a hot air station don’t buy from Hakko - they’re current models are overpriced and take forever to heat up. Atten (a Chinese brand) sells fantastic stations in the $250 price point that heat faster and have a saner interfaces. Point I’m trying to make here is don’t spend money for a well known brand if you don’t have to, but make sure whatever you buy is equipment you can trust instead and that means having reviews from trusted sources outside of Amazon customers.
Do they probably work most of the time? Sure. But I want the temperature display to mean 500C when it reads 500C and not 450C, and for my iron to be up to temperature just as quick as my FX-888D does without being a fire hazard or potentially let out the magic smoke because some cheap component died.
That said, if anybody is looking for a hot air station don’t buy from Hakko - they’re current models are overpriced and take forever to heat up. Atten (a Chinese brand) sells fantastic stations in the $250 price point that heat faster and have a saner interfaces. Point I’m trying to make here is don’t spend money for a well known brand if you don’t have to, but make sure whatever you buy is equipment you can trust instead and that means having reviews from trusted sources outside of Amazon customers.
This is fantastic advice. I actually have lots of the tools from tinkering with motor controllers but none of the parts lol. I have all that on order (of course, because it's not available locally) so I hopefully will not find myself in this spot again.
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Being able to test clothes before you buy them to so if they fit is so much more convenient than ordering the wrong size online.
As long as you can find your size. I'm tall and thin, so if I want to buy something as basic as Levi's jeans, I have to go to a ton of stores and have limited choices. Now I just get them on Amazon, problem solved.
This is a problem that should have been solved years ago. You should be able to measure yourself very accurately and thoroughly, keep it on some sort of file that you can share what you need, and then use tools on the online sites to learn exactly how their products will fit.
This is a problem that should have been solved years ago. You should be able to measure yourself very accurately and thoroughly, keep it on some sort of file that you can share what you need, and then use tools on the online sites to learn exactly how their products will fit.
yeah, this is a problem i've solved by learning what brands are internally consistent with their sizing. i know my size in Levi's, and as long as they don't suddenly start making 36/32 jeans fit differently than they used to, i'll keep ordering from them without having to worry about fit.
A Levi's "36" today is probably more like 39 inches. In fact, most companies have been "vanity sizing" to make people feel better.
The worst offender is "Old Navy" where a 36" is actually a whopping 41 inches. It seems like men won't buy pants that are labeled over 39 inches, so as sizes go up from 30 inches, the "vanity" excess goes up exponentially.
See: https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-...
The worst offender is "Old Navy" where a 36" is actually a whopping 41 inches. It seems like men won't buy pants that are labeled over 39 inches, so as sizes go up from 30 inches, the "vanity" excess goes up exponentially.
See: https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a8386/pants-size-...
How is vanity sizing not false advertising?!
because they don't make any claim that a size 38 is 38 inches.
they used to be, but these days a "size 38" designation doesn't carry any more actual meaning than women's clothing sizes like "size 0"
they used to be, but these days a "size 38" designation doesn't carry any more actual meaning than women's clothing sizes like "size 0"
No one is getting mad or feeling bad about fitting a smaller size than they've earned. It takes a complaint for it to be an issue.
Levi's is one of the worst offenders. There is such a massive sizing variance that I stopped buying them years ago unless I found them in a store.
Yeah, I've had Levi's in front of me where nominally "smaller" sizes of the exact same jeans were visibly bigger. For the life of me I don't understand why measuring jeans to better than an inch is so hard in the 21st century. How is there no incentive for them to fix this? Do they profit from giving people the wrong size?
i think i figured it out. they measure cut sew dye wash. the size changes during the wash, variably depending on the dye and randomness. it would be cost prohibitive to control for this so instead you get size variability which is fine because most people buy in store.
I'm not sure what wash you're referring to, but I'm talking about brand new jeans. Can't they measure whatever they want at the end of manufacture instead of the beginning? It's not like the consumer wears anything but the end product. The error bars are ridiculous.
brand new jeans are washed before you get them. it gives them the texture.
i noticed that a certain jean i buy fit consistently only within a given dye and wash. darker pair or different wash fit differently.
i noticed that a certain jean i buy fit consistently only within a given dye and wash. darker pair or different wash fit differently.
Yeah I get that they're washed, but I don't care if they're washed... can't they just measure something after the wash? Is what I'm asking.
I'm talking about the exact same dye btw. Like the same color, number, everything. Only difference is sizes. I've gotten smaller sizes an inch larger than the "larger" sizes for the exact same jeans. It's ridiculous.
I'm talking about the exact same dye btw. Like the same color, number, everything. Only difference is sizes. I've gotten smaller sizes an inch larger than the "larger" sizes for the exact same jeans. It's ridiculous.
Maybe they came out of different factories?
> can't they just measure something after the wash?
of course they can! those jeans cost double.
it’s not a matter of incompetence or don’t care. it’s a matter of production efficiency.
as for otherwise identical jeans being different sizes, that’s also a matter of consistency of the raw material. if you want high consistency it costs more. consumers aren’t willing to bear that cost.
of course they can! those jeans cost double.
it’s not a matter of incompetence or don’t care. it’s a matter of production efficiency.
as for otherwise identical jeans being different sizes, that’s also a matter of consistency of the raw material. if you want high consistency it costs more. consumers aren’t willing to bear that cost.
I gave up on pants sizes. You really have to go there and there is no system to it. Sometimes the numbers get bigger, sometimes smaller.
With shoes there is at least consistency because it seems like it became a penis enlargement thing there. On some brands my size grew from 43 to 47 in the recent years.
With shoes there is at least consistency because it seems like it became a penis enlargement thing there. On some brands my size grew from 43 to 47 in the recent years.
heh. i guess i knew my size in Levis, it's been more than a few years since i actually bought a pair of their pants.
Guy jeans are real easy because those numbers are actual measurements. Woman's jeans just change that to a single number that changes through the years. Uhg, so annoying.
No they aren't. I got two pairs of jeans from the same (house) brand in the same store at the same time. I tried on one of them in the store, and naively assumed the other would fit too.
There was a 5 cm (2 inch) difference.
There was a 5 cm (2 inch) difference.
I don't think she was implying that the sizes are always correct. But they are actual dimensions, i.e. inches. As opposed to "size 8", which is relatively meaningless.
What really pisses me off too is the size drifts to make you think you're going down pant sizes. So every so years you need to try clothes on again to get your new number.
Pair that with covid not letting you try things on and it just plain sucks. Sometimes I have to try shotgunning it so I'm not making 3 trips to the store just to try a new number.
Pair that with covid not letting you try things on and it just plain sucks. Sometimes I have to try shotgunning it so I'm not making 3 trips to the store just to try a new number.
The inseam is but the waist usually isn’t. It’s just standardized between brands much more than women’s jeans.
There's a company called True Fit (https://www.truefit.com/) which attempts to solve this.
True Fit partners with several stores. You go on a store's web site (for example, macys.com), and you tell True Fit about some clothing you already have that fits well (brand, size, style). Based on that, it refers to its database to recommend the best size of the product you're considering now, and it tells you whether it thinks it will be "snug", "true to you", or "loose".
Basically it just formalizes the kind of knowledge that shoppers use about how brand A tends to run small, brand B runs large, brand C is aimed at young people so its shirts are more tailored, brand D is aimed at older people and their shirts are more "generous" in the waist, etc.
Their web site calls it the "Fashion Genome™", which is a "comprehensive, normalized fashion graph".
True Fit partners with several stores. You go on a store's web site (for example, macys.com), and you tell True Fit about some clothing you already have that fits well (brand, size, style). Based on that, it refers to its database to recommend the best size of the product you're considering now, and it tells you whether it thinks it will be "snug", "true to you", or "loose".
Basically it just formalizes the kind of knowledge that shoppers use about how brand A tends to run small, brand B runs large, brand C is aimed at young people so its shirts are more tailored, brand D is aimed at older people and their shirts are more "generous" in the waist, etc.
Their web site calls it the "Fashion Genome™", which is a "comprehensive, normalized fashion graph".
True fit is more of a conversion boosting tool rather than a tool to help the consumer.
I worked at Levi’s Corp for 3 years and was surprised to learn that clothes have large tolerances in sizes to keep costs down.
True fit says you should select a size based on the size you wear in another brand. That won’t work because no brands have consistent sizing. Even if a brand used extremely tight size tolerances, brands actively size up and down their clothes based on the whims of merchants.
The solution is to just buy 3 sizes of each item you want and select the best fit and return the rest.
I worked at Levi’s Corp for 3 years and was surprised to learn that clothes have large tolerances in sizes to keep costs down.
True fit says you should select a size based on the size you wear in another brand. That won’t work because no brands have consistent sizing. Even if a brand used extremely tight size tolerances, brands actively size up and down their clothes based on the whims of merchants.
The solution is to just buy 3 sizes of each item you want and select the best fit and return the rest.
> large tolerances in sizes to keep costs down
Yeah, that's the main problem with this. If you're buying higher-end stuff with tighter tolerances, just providing a set of measurements can work. There's a whole industry of tailors in India and Hong Kong who sell made-to-measure dress shirts to Westerners over the internet.
Yeah, that's the main problem with this. If you're buying higher-end stuff with tighter tolerances, just providing a set of measurements can work. There's a whole industry of tailors in India and Hong Kong who sell made-to-measure dress shirts to Westerners over the internet.
Any links? Need to a get a suit and would love to save.
What happens to the returned items?
How do I actually use this? I have to intentionally seek out brands and stores they've already partnered with?
There's not a directory or anything it seems like.
There's not a directory or anything it seems like.
Looks like this is actually a B2B service that would sell it to existing retailers and/or tailers, not necessarily as something you yourself would sign up for.
Yeah, it doesn't seem set up to help you discover retailers where you can actually use it. Their site does have a list of retail client partners (https://www.truefit.com/Partners/Retail-Clients) which gives a starting point.
I tried visiting several sites and got these results:
Works for me: Macy's, J.Crew, JCPenney
Doesn't work: Kohl's, Dockers, Lands' End, Ralph Lauren
In all cases, I picked a random (except for avoiding store brands) men's casual shirt and looked on the details page near where you select a size.
I tried visiting several sites and got these results:
Works for me: Macy's, J.Crew, JCPenney
Doesn't work: Kohl's, Dockers, Lands' End, Ralph Lauren
In all cases, I picked a random (except for avoiding store brands) men's casual shirt and looked on the details page near where you select a size.
I have the same dimensions / issues finding jeans. Quality control on Levi's isn't fantastic and I'm always frustrated with how wide the leg openings are. Difficult to find any pants that fit well, really. Someone recommended I just buy jeans that roughly fit, and take them to a tailor. Such a game changer! For $12 I can basically get any pair of pairs to fit perfectly.
Plenty of online stores let to order stuff to fit them and return what doesn't fit.
who wants to return stuff
Most make it super easy. I think Amazon even includes a return label just in case. Waaay better than driving to a store with perfume masking stink, wait in line for fitting rooms, wait in line to pay. So many cons to going in store… most stores are stink boxes.
YES this. Cheap purfume is everywhere these days. I blame AXE commercials - because now men are wearing perfume more than women ever did.
point was that for clothing you can avoid returns by trying it on first
The real issue is: do you want to travel somewhere to try it on, or do you want to try it on in the comfort of your own home?
It's very subjective but personally, I enjoy going shopping for clothes. Unless I can't find the item in my city.
Stuff like electronics is different. Then I don't care about seeing and feeling the product beforehand. Instead I value that stuff is easy to findz search, price and availability. Though I still but stuff locally because I don't want to wait for shipping
Stuff like electronics is different. Then I don't care about seeing and feeling the product beforehand. Instead I value that stuff is easy to findz search, price and availability. Though I still but stuff locally because I don't want to wait for shipping
To the store? Not me.
With a free UPS pickup because it was included with the purchase? Me.
With a free UPS pickup because it was included with the purchase? Me.
i don’t buy clothes online but in the rare event i do i buy from amazon and super high end retailers where you just send it back without calling.
i order 2-3 sizes and send back the ones that don’t fit.
convenience of online with just the added small bump of a trip to the post office or UPS.
i order 2-3 sizes and send back the ones that don’t fit.
convenience of online with just the added small bump of a trip to the post office or UPS.
You can try them on in the local store and then buy the same size online. Works wonders for some products like brand sneakers or jeans.
Works worse when the store closes because you don’t buy stuff there.
I imagine a future in which brick and mortar stores offer the same prices as online (without having to price match), but charge an entry fee for the service of trying stuff on/out.
Won't happen until enough brick and mortar stores close that the remaining ones can get away with it, though.
Won't happen until enough brick and mortar stores close that the remaining ones can get away with it, though.
FYI, things like jeans can have a lot of size variability between seemingly identical pairs (same brand, model, and nominal size).
My understanding is that this is because the denim is stacked and then die cut in the factory. Since denim is highly deformable, the cut outs from the top of the stack are not the same size as the cut out from the bottom of the stack. And this can lead to considerable size variance within the "same" pairs of pants.
That's why it's a good idea to try on two pairs of the exact "same" pants if the fit is close, but not quite right. YMMV.
My understanding is that this is because the denim is stacked and then die cut in the factory. Since denim is highly deformable, the cut outs from the top of the stack are not the same size as the cut out from the bottom of the stack. And this can lead to considerable size variance within the "same" pairs of pants.
That's why it's a good idea to try on two pairs of the exact "same" pants if the fit is close, but not quite right. YMMV.
I've only found differences for pants bought in different years.
If I buy two of the same pair, the match each other throughout their lifespan.
If I buy two of the same pair, the match each other throughout their lifespan.
Interesting. I've noticed about a half size difference in both waist and leg length on one occasion. One pair didn't fit but it's twin was perfect. \_(ツ)_/
A lot of stores have a price match even for online prices to keep you from doing this. So if you're so cheap to do this, then you could at least reward the local store for providing you a service rather than cheating them out of a sale.
Kohls solves this by giving you 120 day returns so I disagree. Plus you don't have to sort through everything and check the prices in store. Just wait for it to show up, try it out. Keep it if it's good, ditch it if it's not.
You have to wait for shipping, package the return, etc. That doesn't seem as convenient as trying on in the store, even with the added burden of travel to the store and sifting through sizes.
Many online retailers have UPS pickup as part of the service. Amazon for sure, but I’ve used apps from clothing stores directly and some provided the option.
Unfortunately that was a while ago and I don’t have the apps installed to know which it was.
“Going shopping” is an asinine use of my time.
Unfortunately that was a while ago and I don’t have the apps installed to know which it was.
“Going shopping” is an asinine use of my time.
I don't know of any instance where my fashion style or an outfit needs to be fulfilled as fast as a fast food item in the drive through. Plus, I don't get why I got downvoted for posting an opinion on something that isn't even breaking any rules or coming off as any way negative or flaming.
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I think it's pretty common for any clothing retailer, but I think the only people who don't mind the experience are people willing to drop hundreds of dollars at a time to buy many different things and then return most of it. I'd rather just go to a store and not have to front the money for anything I'm on the fence about.
Also stores offer more services. When I buy a pair of jeans the person in the store will adjust the length so the jeans fit my odd lenght. I bought a watch yesterday and it cost me $60 more in store than online, but in the store they helped me change change the size and if I have issues with it I can drop it of in the store and they will send it for repairs. Just more convinient for me than figuring out how to safely submit it myself.
I find even the larger businesses have much poorer shopping experiences than Amazon. I wanted to buy a book last year. I found it on a major, non-amazon bookseller's website. However, no "Look-inside", not even a description, no reviews, no real information about it aside from the title and [very short] description. I ended up going to Amazon to find all this info and having a look at the "Look inside" first few pages, and then buying it from the other retailer. It worked, but not exactly great, people going to a competitor's website to research the product.
It sucks, because I want to support businesses other than Amazon and the like, ones that pay corporation tax and don't abuse their market position, but the other stores really have to raise their game. For better or worse, Amazon has definitely been a game-changer in retail and it's not enough to trade like it's the year 2000 any more. You have to be innovative and see software as a way to improve your offering.
It sucks, because I want to support businesses other than Amazon and the like, ones that pay corporation tax and don't abuse their market position, but the other stores really have to raise their game. For better or worse, Amazon has definitely been a game-changer in retail and it's not enough to trade like it's the year 2000 any more. You have to be innovative and see software as a way to improve your offering.
Talking from the perspective of local business owner - it isn’t possible to compete with Amazon on ”online” features.
This needs two efforts - people have to be Ok with an inferior shopping experience to a certain extent. Can’t have cake and eat it.
Second, Software powered world needs a different kind of monopoly control - we shouldn’t talking about “breaking up Amazon” - that just creates busy work from yet another set of programmers to work on duplicating everything Amazon has. That is a waste of resources.
Instead regulation should force Amazon to share its “retail infra” and may be allow local business to relicense/partner with some of it.
This needs two efforts - people have to be Ok with an inferior shopping experience to a certain extent. Can’t have cake and eat it.
Second, Software powered world needs a different kind of monopoly control - we shouldn’t talking about “breaking up Amazon” - that just creates busy work from yet another set of programmers to work on duplicating everything Amazon has. That is a waste of resources.
Instead regulation should force Amazon to share its “retail infra” and may be allow local business to relicense/partner with some of it.
> it isn’t possible to compete with Amazon on ”online” features.
I'm not sure that's a true statement. I've completely ceased buying computing equipment from Amazon because their search is so goddamned useless. Newegg's power search actually works and lets me find what I'm looking for.
I'm not sure that's a true statement. I've completely ceased buying computing equipment from Amazon because their search is so goddamned useless. Newegg's power search actually works and lets me find what I'm looking for.
For computer hardware, I use PCPartPicker to find what I want, and follow their link.
Yes, I know that those will definitely be referral links, but I'm fine with that.
Yes, I know that those will definitely be referral links, but I'm fine with that.
I'm ok paying NewEgg's (sometimes) slightly higher prices because they took the time to put together a good search.
I stopped buying from Newegg. Firstly when I made two identical orders once (I intended to get two hard drives, only got one, so ordered the second a few hours later when I noticed), they _silently_ deleted one of them with no indication of what happened, leaving no record of it in my account. This was _after_ I had a purchase confirmation email for both orders. CS was unwilling to apply the now-expired sale price to a new order when I contacted them. Secondly, when someone bought a $3000 camera on my account (had no credit cards attached, they used a gift card) Newegg closed my account when I reported it, and I now cannot use my primary email account with them, as there's an existing closed account with that address. I consider both of these to be their fault--yes, I could have checked my account more often, but I generally rely on email communications for online purchases; and my account could have been restored by resetting password and logging out existing sessions.
I've been really curious why Amazon can't implement sort by exact price.
As a software guy, rebuilding many of the features of Amazon that users love isn't awfully hard or expensive.
I think it's a unique combination of logistics and tech which few companies manage to successfully pursue. Things like hooking up the cash register system to the website so the website doesn't say "in stock" when someone has bought the last one. It's pretty easy for someone techy to do that, but there is rarely a sufficiently techy person on staff in a typical small business.
I think it's a unique combination of logistics and tech which few companies manage to successfully pursue. Things like hooking up the cash register system to the website so the website doesn't say "in stock" when someone has bought the last one. It's pretty easy for someone techy to do that, but there is rarely a sufficiently techy person on staff in a typical small business.
"Breaking up Amazon so that fulfilment is a separate business, which other companies besides may do business with" seems isomorphic to "force Amazon to share its infrastructure" to me.
> It sucks, because I want to support businesses other than Amazon and the like, ones that pay corporation tax and don't abuse their market position, but the other stores really have to raise their game.
Amazon uses that money it saves from not paying tax to improve its website and service. That's why others aren't able to compete.
Amazon uses that money it saves from not paying tax to improve its website and service. That's why others aren't able to compete.
I don't understand how in 2021 small businesses have such a hard time with inventory / stock?
I've always tried to support local, but lately I've given up on local bike stores near me house. Went in looking for simple things, spokes, tube patches, quick links for chains. Only to be stared at blankly with confusion or told they don't have said items in stock. I went home an ordered off Amazon in 2 minutes, arrived next day.
Similar experiences with all types of things.
One thing I'm not sure about is if small businesses really care about surviving or competing with "the internet" I've not really seen much evidence to support this idea.
I've always tried to support local, but lately I've given up on local bike stores near me house. Went in looking for simple things, spokes, tube patches, quick links for chains. Only to be stared at blankly with confusion or told they don't have said items in stock. I went home an ordered off Amazon in 2 minutes, arrived next day.
Similar experiences with all types of things.
One thing I'm not sure about is if small businesses really care about surviving or competing with "the internet" I've not really seen much evidence to support this idea.
Bike stores might be a little unique given the huge crunch of new bikes going out the doors, and fewer parts readily available.
But yes, thats surprising, and its strange they didnt just act as a proxy, ordering from, well, anywhere! To get you sorted.
I make an effort to route everything through my local bike shop; as the two who operate it are both skilled mechanics and actually ride, so are a body of knowledge. I dont find that with other chain based stores, who keep sales and mechanics separate. Its at the latter I get blank looks, usually from sales people, and I dislike it intensely
I make an effort to route everything through my local bike shop; as the two who operate it are both skilled mechanics and actually ride, so are a body of knowledge. I dont find that with other chain based stores, who keep sales and mechanics separate. Its at the latter I get blank looks, usually from sales people, and I dislike it intensely
A small business is never going to be able to match the variety of an online store in terms of inventory.... they simply don't get enough customers to afford to hold every single possible variety of something like an online store. An online store can have customers from all across the country (and world), so obscure items will be bought by SOMEONE more often.
A small business isn't going to hold something in inventory that only one person every 5 years wants
A small business isn't going to hold something in inventory that only one person every 5 years wants
A quick link for a shimano chain though...
I work for a large outdoor retailer and the difficulties fulfilling bicycles is not unique to -any- store, big or small, right now.
I’m sorry, I can’t help but point out that you could call the store before you left your house. And when in the store, you could ask a sales associate for help. Just sayin!
I love going into my local Ace Hardware stores. I have found that these are usually staffed by older/retired guys that have been there, done that, and they are eager to assist. In fact, one guy would recognize me and ask what "crazy" thing I'm trying to do now. This is all because the first time we interacted I was attempting to build a "portable" 25' long suspension cable system for a camera rig. We probably spent 2 hours looking at all of the doodads they had available (of course he'd help other customers when needed). However, we did spend a lot of time just chatting about random projects. At the end, he asked if I'd show him the result of it when finished. It was sad day when I learned he had passed away. Kind of like losing a distant relative.
Show me where Amazon or whatever online shop can emulate that.
Show me where Amazon or whatever online shop can emulate that.
A service which you find useful that eventually disappears? I think you may find some Google products to fill this niche :)
haha, nice and true to a point with a few caveats - you may search for what you think you need which is a "whatsit" which can be fixed by a "whoseit", which may be in fact be best solved by a "thingamajig".
At my local hardware store this saved me $40 and a whole bunch of plumbing and a trip back to the store when the seasoned veteran simply asked what i was trying to do. The money, meh, saving the time and frustration priceless.
The best help is when someone asks you what you are trying to accomplish instead of what isle something is in. It's why you go back to that store and learn when certain employees are working. To the young workers, i totally get that your underpaid and not your career path or one at all. Perhaps for some of the older/retired gen is it more supplimental income and they enjoy being a knowledge base for people like me who sometimes know enough to be dangerous..
The best help is when someone asks you what you are trying to accomplish instead of what isle something is in. It's why you go back to that store and learn when certain employees are working. To the young workers, i totally get that your underpaid and not your career path or one at all. Perhaps for some of the older/retired gen is it more supplimental income and they enjoy being a knowledge base for people like me who sometimes know enough to be dangerous..
Calling a store is usually phone system menu hell, you will usually ultimately reach a 19 year old that doesn't care or someone in a call center.
What small/local store has a call center?
Well my most recent experience is trying to call the local number for the electric company office in my town which went to someone asking what state I live in.
Prepare to be on hold a very long time and be subjected to the person who answered the phone flagging down a coworker to go physically check the isle.
> I can’t help but point out that you could call the store before you left your house. And when in the store, you could ask a sales associate for help.
This is still worse than going to amazon and doing a quick search, seeing a ton of different products that satisfy your needs, and reading reviews from people that bought them. Then when you purchase it arrives in a day. Fake reviews aside, this is vastly superior.
This is still worse than going to amazon and doing a quick search, seeing a ton of different products that satisfy your needs, and reading reviews from people that bought them. Then when you purchase it arrives in a day. Fake reviews aside, this is vastly superior.
And then possibly ending up with a counterfeit.
That is equally possible in a brick-and-mortar store. Even regulated shops such as pharmacies are suspected of selling counterfeits: https://www.deutsche-apotheker-zeitung.de/news/artikel/2017/...
I'd even argue that brick-and-mortar is more prone to counterfeits because control buying by the original producers is far harder.
I'd even argue that brick-and-mortar is more prone to counterfeits because control buying by the original producers is far harder.
And mislead by fake reviews.
That's hilarious!
Do you... try that regularly?
Stores are so understaffed, you're lucky to get them to pick up the phone at all, and if they do you often won't get accurate information. They'll never walk to an aisle to see if something is physically there, they'll tell you if it's "in the system", but frequently "the system" will show 3 in stock while the reality is zero on the shelf. Or 48 in stock but they're all on a pallet in the back they can't get to.
And good luck finding a sales associate in the store itself. Quite frequently there simply aren't any -- only cashiers, a security guard, and people restocking who don't have the knowledge to help you at all.
Do you... try that regularly?
Stores are so understaffed, you're lucky to get them to pick up the phone at all, and if they do you often won't get accurate information. They'll never walk to an aisle to see if something is physically there, they'll tell you if it's "in the system", but frequently "the system" will show 3 in stock while the reality is zero on the shelf. Or 48 in stock but they're all on a pallet in the back they can't get to.
And good luck finding a sales associate in the store itself. Quite frequently there simply aren't any -- only cashiers, a security guard, and people restocking who don't have the knowledge to help you at all.
Actually my wife does this all the time and it works, especially for small businesses. Larger companies have websites, and small businesses care enough to do things like check the stock for you.
So I guess my anecdote cancels yours out?
So I guess my anecdote cancels yours out?
This goes for San Francisco retail shops but also I'm sure other places: Some of the stores don't open till noon. Some are only open 3 days a week. Some stores are open the days the other stores are closed. I'm talking about some of the most popular retail storefronts in SF.
There are no good options. I went through this recently where I had to call different stores on 3 separate days, waiting till 10am, 11am, or 12pm. And you still don't know the product you are asking about is really the one you are after. There are so many versions of products and specific use cases nowadays.
There are no good options. I went through this recently where I had to call different stores on 3 separate days, waiting till 10am, 11am, or 12pm. And you still don't know the product you are asking about is really the one you are after. There are so many versions of products and specific use cases nowadays.
The previous posters experience resonates much more with me than your experience.
Even when you do go to a shop you are often redirected online. That item isn't in stock on the computer. No attempt to upsell you or suggest an alternative which they might have in stock. It's no wonder high street stores are dying out.
To be fair, small specialist stores are usually much better. I even got a call back from a company the last time I was trying to buy a specific BBQ. Sadly they didn't have it in stock and a day or two later I found it online.
Even when you do go to a shop you are often redirected online. That item isn't in stock on the computer. No attempt to upsell you or suggest an alternative which they might have in stock. It's no wonder high street stores are dying out.
To be fair, small specialist stores are usually much better. I even got a call back from a company the last time I was trying to buy a specific BBQ. Sadly they didn't have it in stock and a day or two later I found it online.
The underlying problem with these anecdotes is that All of these experiences depend on who is working that day.
It may even be influenced by who is working that week or that month or who runs the place this year.
Ecommerce is imperfect in many ways, but it is far more consistent in its imperfection than local retail.
W.C. Winks Hardware Inc. in Portland, Oregon has been around since 1909 and is amazing.
You can go in there with some odd piece of hardware and someone will personally wait on you, assess your request and find the exact item or closest likeness.
The staff is patient and friendly, in my experience it is ideal local retail. But Winks doesn’t do ecommerce at all, so I often must relegate it to unusual hard to figure HW needs, because not every project needs this level of service.
I’m in agreement that retail has some pretty serious work to do to stay in the running. It might not be fair or “right” but it has to happen nonetheless.
It may even be influenced by who is working that week or that month or who runs the place this year.
Ecommerce is imperfect in many ways, but it is far more consistent in its imperfection than local retail.
W.C. Winks Hardware Inc. in Portland, Oregon has been around since 1909 and is amazing.
You can go in there with some odd piece of hardware and someone will personally wait on you, assess your request and find the exact item or closest likeness.
The staff is patient and friendly, in my experience it is ideal local retail. But Winks doesn’t do ecommerce at all, so I often must relegate it to unusual hard to figure HW needs, because not every project needs this level of service.
I’m in agreement that retail has some pretty serious work to do to stay in the running. It might not be fair or “right” but it has to happen nonetheless.
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I live in a fairly small town. Almost every store is minimally staffed, often by a single person. Phones regularly go to voicemail. Calling up the local shoe store to ask whether they have something in my size will get an interesting response. I’m also thinner than average here, so entire pants racks at the local clothing stores just don’t carry a single piece in my size.
Yes. Just tell the guy to get off his butt and go and see if the item is in stock. This has worked every time for me. I call walmart on a reg to see if an item is in stock before having to drive all the way there.
Walmart is not a local shop. They have a pretty large software dept i house and you could probably check availability online yourself.
So my choice is to harass/insult a minimum wage employee and distract them from their already-overloaded and already-minmaxed job so that I can spend more, get in my vehicle and spew carbon into the atmosphere to......give money to a family of ultra-billionaires instead of one ultrabillionaire? And that's helping my local economy?
Why are you harassing and insulting them in the first place? Nobody taught you how to speak politely?
The GP said to tell the employee to get off his butt, which is usually interpreted as rude.
They didn't mean you should literally say those exact words. You could say something like "Would you mind checking it for me yourself? I'd really appreciate it."
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Not sure I’d consider Walmart the kind of local business being discussed here...
You sound like you're describing a Walmart or Target. I thought we were talking about local small businesses. All the niche small businesses around me, the store owner is often the one who takes the call and they know their inventory inside and out
I asked floor staff and manager about item that they had pile of in previous week, they said its all gone I even pointed on same item smaller size (slow cooker) went two aisle down found bunch of them there. Shop staff is not keeping track with items being sold unless you ask about bread and milk locations
In my experience, if i’m 10 mins away from a store, my end to end time is at least an hour if you don’t already know where the items is and if it is in stock. Then it’s 30-45 minutes. Driving, parking, walking into the store, check out, walking out, driving takes a surprising amount of time if you actually count it.
If I call, it’s often 5 to 10 minutes for the call to determine stock availability (often the clerk needs to go wander around to find it, or go to the far back of their lot to see how much they have). That’s assuming anyone knows what I’m talking about/I can adequately describe what I’m looking for without them getting confused, which isn’t always the case.
This adds up. For some things it’s worth it, or even essential. For other things, it is not. I’ve given up on in-person for computer/networking/IT equipment for instance. Too difficult to get a clear answer, local markups and stocking are too unpredictable, it’s so much faster doing a search and purchasing online.
If I call, it’s often 5 to 10 minutes for the call to determine stock availability (often the clerk needs to go wander around to find it, or go to the far back of their lot to see how much they have). That’s assuming anyone knows what I’m talking about/I can adequately describe what I’m looking for without them getting confused, which isn’t always the case.
This adds up. For some things it’s worth it, or even essential. For other things, it is not. I’ve given up on in-person for computer/networking/IT equipment for instance. Too difficult to get a clear answer, local markups and stocking are too unpredictable, it’s so much faster doing a search and purchasing online.
I can also go online and buy it from any retailer living in 2021 for a similar or better price. It's really not practical to call up the store and ask about every single item I'm looking for.
You're not wrong that those are options, but those options are the exact reason brick and mortar stores are struggling to stay afloat. They offer an inferior service.
You're not wrong that those are options, but those options are the exact reason brick and mortar stores are struggling to stay afloat. They offer an inferior service.
Tried this when I wanted a tool to help pick a tubular lock that was being difficult with the improvised stuff I was trying and which I didn't want to drill out. Of all the hardware stores and hobby shops I called, only one actually took me seriously and checked to be sure they didn't have it. All the rest falsely told me that lock picking was illegal and seemed to take offense.
Ended up buying some cheap shit off ebay that got the job done.
Ended up buying some cheap shit off ebay that got the job done.
They might do that for the occasional person, but it wouldn't scale. They have to hire far more people.
So now I have to spend 5-10 minutes talking with someone and waiting on them just to find the price versus knowing it instantly. Then I have to drive there and buy it (if it is cheaper) versus just having it shipped free to my house. None of this makes sense for me to do.
how do i get this Tele-Phone app you speak of?
Do we really need such shops though? It's like being concerned about horses, when more and more people drive cars.
Only thing I buy in a corner store is probably bin bags and something like water if I forget to put it in my bag before leaving house.
Everything else I buy online because I can compare, read about the product, watch reviews etc. when in store being on the phone looking up products is not comfortable.
We should accept that certain era has ended and look how these store owners could transition into online world.
If a corner store was online, I could order that bin bag and they could just pop it in through my door few hours later.
How true is that really? Maybe there will come a point where this is true, but there are still lots of things on Amazon that don't have next-day delivery. Many specialty items on Amazon have slow shipping, and I would gladly have bought them at a local store if I had the choice; I used to until they all closed.
But by the very nature of being a specialty item, there's unlikely to be a shop for that thing in any given area. Occasionally you luck out and it turns out you live near a major kitesurfing shop or whatever, but on average you're no better off than online - probably worse off if you actually make a day trip to a brick-and-mortar shop halfway across the country.
My new favorite is hunting through their online catalogues and only finding the things I want via their online sales. Just with worse shipping.
Other then niche products like brewers items, furniture and other home goods it’s difficult to find things I need.
It’s not like I live in the woods either.
Other then niche products like brewers items, furniture and other home goods it’s difficult to find things I need.
It’s not like I live in the woods either.
It's also part of their business model. If you call for info on products they will half-ass it and try to avoid giving much information. They believe forcing people into coming will more likely make them buy at least something.
I've tried to approach some local businesses to create an online catalog and they claim their competition would use it against them...
I've tried to approach some local businesses to create an online catalog and they claim their competition would use it against them...
If you already know exactly what you want, buying online from a big corporation will always be better than buying from a local brick and mortar store.
I think bookstores are one of the best examples. Amazon has literally everything, but if you're not exactly sure what to read next, if you walk through the highly curated aisles of a local used bookstore, or talk to the (highly knowledgeable) person behind the front desk, you'll probably walk out of the door with something awesome.
I think bookstores are one of the best examples. Amazon has literally everything, but if you're not exactly sure what to read next, if you walk through the highly curated aisles of a local used bookstore, or talk to the (highly knowledgeable) person behind the front desk, you'll probably walk out of the door with something awesome.
I just don't buy this argument. If you go to a store, you'll get the opinion of the people who work there. If you go online, you can get perspectives from any number of people (and make sure their tastes are similar to yours).
Nearby (unrelated to this extension, AFAICT) is a company that creates a unified online storefront for local shops and they handle the separate ordering, pickup, and delivery to shoppers:
“On Nearby, they shop across multiple local stores, in one basket, with one checkout, and no fuss. After a customer checks out, we place orders with you and the other stores, and do the work of putting the order together.”
https://nearbyhq.com/
“On Nearby, they shop across multiple local stores, in one basket, with one checkout, and no fuss. After a customer checks out, we place orders with you and the other stores, and do the work of putting the order together.”
https://nearbyhq.com/
If I hunt for specifics I usually call small shops:
"Hello. Do you have washing lines? Oh, thank you."
Bigger chains usually has a website you can browse instead.
The value-add is that I can see the washing line before I buy it. Pictures just doesn't make it - they lie. And then I would have to live with a crappy washing line because what are the chances I would bother replacing it with another cheap random internet washing line.
Bigger chains usually has a website you can browse instead.
The value-add is that I can see the washing line before I buy it. Pictures just doesn't make it - they lie. And then I would have to live with a crappy washing line because what are the chances I would bother replacing it with another cheap random internet washing line.
Have you ever thought about calling the store to see if it is in stock before going out of your way to drive there. This would prevent you from leaving your computer desk. Also for the increased price that local shops might have, I view that as a convienience fee for not having to wait 3-4 days for the package to arrive at my house.
The search latency is high. It can be very frustrating.
Not to mention supporting the local economy.
Not scalable though is it. If everyone only goes when needing something right now, there won’t be any shops left to be able to get something right now. I love the concept of local recommendations but yes real-ish-time inventory of local shops needs solving too.
> there won’t be any shops left to be able to get something right now
Of course there will be, because demand will still exist.
There will just be less shops, with higher prices, and focused only on the types of things people tend to need immediately.
But that's exactly what people would want -- buy most of your stuff cheaply online with a delay, but have shops specializing in need-it-now categories of things for a premium price.
It's an entirely viable model.
Of course there will be, because demand will still exist.
There will just be less shops, with higher prices, and focused only on the types of things people tend to need immediately.
But that's exactly what people would want -- buy most of your stuff cheaply online with a delay, but have shops specializing in need-it-now categories of things for a premium price.
It's an entirely viable model.
>real-ish-time inventory of local shops needs solving too.
Shops seem reluctant to do this, possibly because they don't like being price matched or view their inventory as a trade secret.
Shops seem reluctant to do this, possibly because they don't like being price matched or view their inventory as a trade secret.
Exactly. I'm not driving around for 2 hours comparing against local businesses on the off chance they can compete on $20 in random crap I buy. Small businesses are simply too time and information inefficient in most cases for general goods.
Just thought of an awesome way to get inventory data by crowd-sourcing it. Sort of creating a game for consumers
Maybe this is a good opportunity to create a "reverse Amazon" service for small businesses?
Well, yeah.
The point is to sacrifice convenience to support local stores.
You want to do the right thing AND you want it to be more convenient? Sounds like you're just looking for convenience.
The point is to sacrifice convenience to support local stores.
You want to do the right thing AND you want it to be more convenient? Sounds like you're just looking for convenience.
> Hunting for a specific product (for example a washing line) might involve walking into 3 different shops and guessing which shop might sell what you need.
The horror!
The horror!
I’d be happy to support local merchants, but they have to get the overall value proposition somewhat competitive. For the most part, they aren’t. Maybe it’s pricing, selection, policies, hours of operation, or some combination, but other than grocers and large chains, I’m not even sure they’re trying.
Amazon is winning by serving the customers. Local shops will continue to have a hard time if the primary value prop is “we’re more expensive and not as good, but we’re your neighbor, so you owe us!”
I try every so often to use a local shop. Maybe I need a common appliance, lawn mower, or small engine part. If they have it on-hand, I’ll pay 5x the online price to get the job done today. I can only recall one time where that worked. “We can get it for you” only to find out that means a week and 4x the online price. “No thanks; I don’t want to be a bother...” <tap, tap, wait 2-3 days, done>
Our dishwasher door broke last Thursday; I fixed it in 30 minutes that Saturday afternoon with a $30 part I ordered on Thursday. Don’t even know how long it would take to setup a $150-200 repair appointment.
Amazon is winning by serving the customers. Local shops will continue to have a hard time if the primary value prop is “we’re more expensive and not as good, but we’re your neighbor, so you owe us!”
I try every so often to use a local shop. Maybe I need a common appliance, lawn mower, or small engine part. If they have it on-hand, I’ll pay 5x the online price to get the job done today. I can only recall one time where that worked. “We can get it for you” only to find out that means a week and 4x the online price. “No thanks; I don’t want to be a bother...” <tap, tap, wait 2-3 days, done>
Our dishwasher door broke last Thursday; I fixed it in 30 minutes that Saturday afternoon with a $30 part I ordered on Thursday. Don’t even know how long it would take to setup a $150-200 repair appointment.
Yeah, Amazon (and increasingly, buying direct from brand's own e-shops) keeps winning my business by being better at every aspect of the sale. I’d like to keep money in my community, but it’s really hard when online has better service, better selection, better pricing, and better flexibility.
I could go downtown to buy a pair of shoes during that store's business hours, get to choose between 3-4 different styles, talk to a salesperson who knows less than the online product listing, then find out that my size isn't in stock and won't be restocked this year. Or I can order online at my convenience, see all the relevant information up front, compare prices across all the selection that exists and across multiple retailers, have the product arrive in a couple days, and pay less money. If local retailers want to exist, they need to find something to compete on.
I could go downtown to buy a pair of shoes during that store's business hours, get to choose between 3-4 different styles, talk to a salesperson who knows less than the online product listing, then find out that my size isn't in stock and won't be restocked this year. Or I can order online at my convenience, see all the relevant information up front, compare prices across all the selection that exists and across multiple retailers, have the product arrive in a couple days, and pay less money. If local retailers want to exist, they need to find something to compete on.
> by being better at every aspect of the sale.
> I’d like to keep money in my community, but ...
It sounds to me like Amazon is not better at every aspect, you've identified one aspect right there. They are competing on, "Would you rather live in a cookie cutter franchise strip mall or a mom and pop commercial area?"
I'm willing to accept some inefficiencies and some frustrations if it means I've got a nice neighborhood of mom and pop stores.
> I’d like to keep money in my community, but ...
It sounds to me like Amazon is not better at every aspect, you've identified one aspect right there. They are competing on, "Would you rather live in a cookie cutter franchise strip mall or a mom and pop commercial area?"
I'm willing to accept some inefficiencies and some frustrations if it means I've got a nice neighborhood of mom and pop stores.
if the only value provided by the "nice neighbourhood of mom and pop stores" is the warm fuzzy feelings, that's not enough value for me.
i don't want to live in what's essentially a theme park full of fake stores that only exist because it makes the neighbourhood seem nicer, or where the shopkeepers are basically paid entertainers present for their aesthetic value. if that's the sort of city we're building, let's skip the inefficiency of paying local retailers to provide the service of existing and go right to universal income.
i don't want to live in what's essentially a theme park full of fake stores that only exist because it makes the neighbourhood seem nicer, or where the shopkeepers are basically paid entertainers present for their aesthetic value. if that's the sort of city we're building, let's skip the inefficiency of paying local retailers to provide the service of existing and go right to universal income.
It's not just aesthetic value. Yes, there is aesthetic value but also there is the value of "People can afford to live and work here." A community that contains some shop owners, some office workers, some landscapers, etc. is a better community in my eyes.
i agree with you that a community where people can afford to live and work is good, but the work needs to actually be productive. if a retail store's only value is unrelated to their retail business, then i think it's fair to call them only aesthetic.
paying people to work in shops that are worse in every way than the alternative except for being local is not productive. no real value is being created. it's a make-work scheme, and paying those workers to not work would be more efficient.
paying people to work in shops that are worse in every way than the alternative except for being local is not productive. no real value is being created. it's a make-work scheme, and paying those workers to not work would be more efficient.
It is productive. My local bike shop sells me bike parts I need, just not as conveniently or efficiently as Amazon.
The ruthless pursuit of efficiency as it's own goal is a trap. Squeezing out every societal optimization is a very engineering centric mindset. There are many, many times where the most efficient solution to a problem isn't the "best" one, and we need to collectively get better at recognizing when that's the case.
The ruthless pursuit of efficiency as it's own goal is a trap. Squeezing out every societal optimization is a very engineering centric mindset. There are many, many times where the most efficient solution to a problem isn't the "best" one, and we need to collectively get better at recognizing when that's the case.
That’s the odd thing though: Amazon has several disadvantages compared to your local bike shop (not being local, not being able to see your bike, not having a human who can talk to you, and not being able to hand you the parts right now). That your local bike shop, despite starting with these significant advantages, manages to be less convenient and efficient for you is interesting and unexpected (and does not bode well for them and others like them).
I chose bike shop arbitrarily. I could have said hardware store, cake supply store, game store, toy store, etc.
My annoyance with the local stores is that they don't even try to compete on the only things they can compete on.
They're never going to win on pricing or selection. The Amazons and Walmarts of the world are backed by huge logistics networks and software, with ruthless efficiency.
What they could absolutely thrash the big guys on is service and experience... yet they don't even bother. Disinterested jobsworth sales droids (usually teenagers) who know nothing about what they're selling or where they're selling it don't make for a compelling experience. The times I've had to flag someone down who was either playing on their phone or chitchatting with coworkers who then proceeded to look at me like I'm the one being an asshole in this interaction for interrupting before being absolutely no help at all has placed quite a few local businesses on my "do not shop here" list.
They're never going to win on pricing or selection. The Amazons and Walmarts of the world are backed by huge logistics networks and software, with ruthless efficiency.
What they could absolutely thrash the big guys on is service and experience... yet they don't even bother. Disinterested jobsworth sales droids (usually teenagers) who know nothing about what they're selling or where they're selling it don't make for a compelling experience. The times I've had to flag someone down who was either playing on their phone or chitchatting with coworkers who then proceeded to look at me like I'm the one being an asshole in this interaction for interrupting before being absolutely no help at all has placed quite a few local businesses on my "do not shop here" list.
Before Amazon, if I needed a specific electronic component, my options were Radio shack or a specialist hobby shop. Both were incredibly expensive and often didn't have what I need. Ebay and Amazon have been an absolute game changer and I'll be happy if I never have to set foot in a hobby shop again, which anecdotally had grumpy staff that seemed annoyed by my presence.
> I’d be happy to support local merchants, but they have to get the overall value proposition somewhat competitive. For the most part, they aren’t. Maybe it’s pricing, selection, policies, hours of operation, or some combination, but other than grocers and large chains, I’m not even sure they’re trying.
This.
I actively avoid local businesses because with few exceptions they always try to screw you, whether that's prices, low quality service, or something else.
Even something as simple as canceling an order that hasn't yet been paid or shipped I get senseless push back from local businesses.
When it's easier and less stress free for me to return a 1200€ drone to Amazon 3 times, than it is for me to cancel a 80€ chestnut order that hasn't been paid or shipped from a local business, the problem isn't Amazon and the solution is obvious.
This.
I actively avoid local businesses because with few exceptions they always try to screw you, whether that's prices, low quality service, or something else.
Even something as simple as canceling an order that hasn't yet been paid or shipped I get senseless push back from local businesses.
When it's easier and less stress free for me to return a 1200€ drone to Amazon 3 times, than it is for me to cancel a 80€ chestnut order that hasn't been paid or shipped from a local business, the problem isn't Amazon and the solution is obvious.
I’m forgiving on pricing with locals.
They don’t have the volume of an Amazon or the logistics.
And as such they can’t normalize prices or take a loss on a higher volume item to draw in bigger items etc.
Even Amazon leverages USPS and pays below market for shipping. A SMB simply can’t, even if drop shipping.
So I’m lenient on price, but the other things generally need to be above average. Especially service.
They don’t have the volume of an Amazon or the logistics.
And as such they can’t normalize prices or take a loss on a higher volume item to draw in bigger items etc.
Even Amazon leverages USPS and pays below market for shipping. A SMB simply can’t, even if drop shipping.
So I’m lenient on price, but the other things generally need to be above average. Especially service.
It’ll keep being a piece of cake until you buy something from a scammer amazon merchant with no one to appeal.
One of the best things I like about my local small businesses is that I don’t need to worry about choices. I just show up with a problem and they will always solve it for me costing me way less than I had budgeted.
That’s why some of those have been operating for almost 100 years.
One of the best things I like about my local small businesses is that I don’t need to worry about choices. I just show up with a problem and they will always solve it for me costing me way less than I had budgeted.
That’s why some of those have been operating for almost 100 years.
“They always try to screw you”. Wow. Wow. Wow.
That’s how we end up with monopolistic companies. Instead of actually making an effort to look for great small business in your city, you’ve just going to spend all your money on Amazon and when you get called on it your answer is they “always try to screw me”. I don’t know if you believe it or you just want the moral high ground for your bad consumer behaviours.
That’s how we end up with monopolistic companies. Instead of actually making an effort to look for great small business in your city, you’ve just going to spend all your money on Amazon and when you get called on it your answer is they “always try to screw me”. I don’t know if you believe it or you just want the moral high ground for your bad consumer behaviours.
Prioritizing the things that provide value to me, and avoiding sellers that do not is the opposite of "bad consumer behavior".
In fact, letting bad business practices slide when it comes to small businesses is a great way of ensuring those businesses will never improve their practices and will continuously fall behind.
Show me the incentives and I will show you the results.
In fact, letting bad business practices slide when it comes to small businesses is a great way of ensuring those businesses will never improve their practices and will continuously fall behind.
Show me the incentives and I will show you the results.
I specifically avoid local businesses because I've never had a good experience. Not only are they more expensive, but the quality of the products are usually worse and returns are a hassle. The local businesses usually have a very limited or no return policy. Just because a business is local doesn't make it better.
This is a really good idea! I love my small businesses but being coddled by the internet is so real, you get used to immediately finding exactly what you want. With local stores, you have to put in some work sometimes, and ghasp talk to real people, potentially a few, at different stores, to get what you need. It sounds like a lot written out like that, but the important bits are that the people you talk to, you learn things from, and that makes you better at finding things.
This tool is kind of like that effect, or an easing into it from someone who may have just bought the first-worst thing on Amazon.
This tool is kind of like that effect, or an easing into it from someone who may have just bought the first-worst thing on Amazon.
> and ghasp talk to real people, potentially a few, at different stores, to get what you need.
That's really an issue: if you aren't the hard-boiled, super unemphatic negotiator type you'll likely buy the very first thing a salesperson has invested face-minutes in, if it just gets the easy 80% of requirements/desires right. "Thanks for your time, but I'll go see if there's another offer that is maybe 3% better or 2% cheaper" isn't something that feels good to all people. The asynchronous experience of online shopping (and before that: mailorder) is a huge enabler to people who aren't the haggler type. And because the haggling mindset is a learned skill, I'm afraid that it will only get worse the less people grow up shopping face to face. To future generations, every shopping experience that isn't online or at least highly formulaic self-service like in a supermarket will feel like the haggle scene from Life Of Brian (and just as alien as the one after that).
But obviously a total amazonisation of all buying would be terrible nonetheless. What I'd love to see: a site like those price comparison directories but not so much focused on cheapest but on local availability. Current stock, proximity, opening hours and price, they are all important.
Actually I should have gotten my ass up and looked for funding years ago, or at least part-timing it on the side (I'm not the haggle type, right?). It would all hinge of course on integration interfaces with whatever systems local dealers already use for managing stock, because those claims world need to be reliable or else it would all be futile.
That's really an issue: if you aren't the hard-boiled, super unemphatic negotiator type you'll likely buy the very first thing a salesperson has invested face-minutes in, if it just gets the easy 80% of requirements/desires right. "Thanks for your time, but I'll go see if there's another offer that is maybe 3% better or 2% cheaper" isn't something that feels good to all people. The asynchronous experience of online shopping (and before that: mailorder) is a huge enabler to people who aren't the haggler type. And because the haggling mindset is a learned skill, I'm afraid that it will only get worse the less people grow up shopping face to face. To future generations, every shopping experience that isn't online or at least highly formulaic self-service like in a supermarket will feel like the haggle scene from Life Of Brian (and just as alien as the one after that).
But obviously a total amazonisation of all buying would be terrible nonetheless. What I'd love to see: a site like those price comparison directories but not so much focused on cheapest but on local availability. Current stock, proximity, opening hours and price, they are all important.
Actually I should have gotten my ass up and looked for funding years ago, or at least part-timing it on the side (I'm not the haggle type, right?). It would all hinge of course on integration interfaces with whatever systems local dealers already use for managing stock, because those claims world need to be reliable or else it would all be futile.
> "Thanks for your time, but I'll go see if there's another offer that is maybe 3% better or 2% cheaper" isn't something that feels good to all people.
Not necessarily because they're meek. For me, going to a brick and mortar store, interacting briefly with a human, and taking the first thing that meets my basic needs is a life hack.
The paradox of choice is real. Seeing the bounty of options available on sites like Amazon does allow me to try to carefully optimize what I get for every desire I could have, but, ironically, the process of doing so makes me less happy with whatever I end up with. Because seeing so many options means I've now got all sorts of opportunities to second-guess my choice. And because reading reviews to try and narrow down my choices invariably injects the reviewer's tastes into my thinking, and potentially guides me away from my own. And because pretty soon just seeing how many bells and whistles are available gets me wanting things I don't need and didn't even know I could have when I first decided I wanted whatever I'm shopping for, and therefore creates all sorts of trade-offs to have to weigh.
It's not worth it. "3% better" is a will-o-the-wisp beckoning me off into a quagmire, and "2% cheaper" is invariably a 2% discount on something that turned out to be 30% more expensive than what I originally planned on buying.
Not necessarily because they're meek. For me, going to a brick and mortar store, interacting briefly with a human, and taking the first thing that meets my basic needs is a life hack.
The paradox of choice is real. Seeing the bounty of options available on sites like Amazon does allow me to try to carefully optimize what I get for every desire I could have, but, ironically, the process of doing so makes me less happy with whatever I end up with. Because seeing so many options means I've now got all sorts of opportunities to second-guess my choice. And because reading reviews to try and narrow down my choices invariably injects the reviewer's tastes into my thinking, and potentially guides me away from my own. And because pretty soon just seeing how many bells and whistles are available gets me wanting things I don't need and didn't even know I could have when I first decided I wanted whatever I'm shopping for, and therefore creates all sorts of trade-offs to have to weigh.
It's not worth it. "3% better" is a will-o-the-wisp beckoning me off into a quagmire, and "2% cheaper" is invariably a 2% discount on something that turned out to be 30% more expensive than what I originally planned on buying.
Thanks for that perspective, I don't disagree at all. I think all depends on why you buy. If it's a necessity, particularly one that you'd rather not need at all, then it's a lifehack feature. But when you buy out of love/consumerism/geekery it's a bug. I find myself surprisingly often ordering tiny little things that, despite being industrially manufactured, exist only in one or two tiny shops/directories, on the entire searchable web. That's a long tail that simply does not exist in the analog world. But it's good to see value in the other end of that animal as well.
I agree, but as I wrote in another comment here I often fall victim to the same myself. I find it quite paradoxal however, how I spent weeks deciding which sports watch to buy, but how the real estate market here gave us a few hours in deciding which apartment to bid on..
Anyways, I find your point about 30% often apply more to local shops. Price is often a bit higher, but biggest problem is not having a comparable model at the price point I wanted. And with a seller in front of you doing their thing, it's easy to walk out with more than intended.
Anyways, I find your point about 30% often apply more to local shops. Price is often a bit higher, but biggest problem is not having a comparable model at the price point I wanted. And with a seller in front of you doing their thing, it's easy to walk out with more than intended.
Haggling is tiring and mostly useless considering the time and energy expended. There's a reason most shopping has gone towards standardized list prices without negotiation, and this happened way before Amazon existed. Even the large purchases like cars and real estate are trending towards upfront pricing now.
Now recommendations by a store expert are a different thing, but local businesses are again limited by recommending only what they have in stock, not what's actually best for you. I've rarely found anyone who would actually tell me to go somewhere else to get what I need.
Now recommendations by a store expert are a different thing, but local businesses are again limited by recommending only what they have in stock, not what's actually best for you. I've rarely found anyone who would actually tell me to go somewhere else to get what I need.
Is this really true for real estate? In the U.S., I regularly hear how people must offer tens of thousands of dollars over a house’s listed price to get any consideration (Seattle).
> But obviously a total amazonisation of all buying would be terrible nonetheless. What I'd love to see: a site like those price comparison directories but not so much focused on cheapest but on local availability. Current stock, proximity, opening hours and price, they are all important.
Geizhals already does all that and I love it for that, e.g.:
https://geizhals.eu/dell-p2719h-210-apxf-a1849338.html?t=a&h...
It's mainly useful AT/DE though...
Geizhals already does all that and I love it for that, e.g.:
https://geizhals.eu/dell-p2719h-210-apxf-a1849338.html?t=a&h...
It's mainly useful AT/DE though...
People in the US were not haggling for anything less than a car in the decades before the internet.
Not true. As recently the 90s expensive niche gear like a pro audio or video stuff was almost always subject to price negotiation, especially if you were a repeat customer or indicated an interest in possibly purchasing other stuff. It still is to some extent.
In general the more knowledgeable the dealership/salespeople, the more likely negotiation is possible, especially if you present as a knowledgeable customer so that neither of you are wasting each others' time.
In general the more knowledgeable the dealership/salespeople, the more likely negotiation is possible, especially if you present as a knowledgeable customer so that neither of you are wasting each others' time.
I guess I was a kid back then, but I don’t remember any of the adults I hung around haggling in stores like circuit city, and my family are immigrants from a country where you haggle over vegetables.
As far as I understood, it wasn’t in the interest of the big retailers to spend time haggling with individuals.
As far as I understood, it wasn’t in the interest of the big retailers to spend time haggling with individuals.
Exactly! And the same fate is waiting for "thanks for the time you just wasted, but I'd rather check out the competition next door some more".
For most people, this has already happened. It's just not as visible as haggle/no haggle (even to the people doing/not doing themselves)
For most people, this has already happened. It's just not as visible as haggle/no haggle (even to the people doing/not doing themselves)
Sales needs to adjust to the new reality. Recognize that people have options and other sources of information and focus on answering their actual questions instead of trying to sell them on something.
If I walk into a car dealership it's because I need specific information not available online, even if it's just to see the car in person.
What I don't need is a whole sales pitch. That's wasting my time and the salesman's.
If I walk into a car dealership it's because I need specific information not available online, even if it's just to see the car in person.
What I don't need is a whole sales pitch. That's wasting my time and the salesman's.
> but I'll go see if there's another offer that is maybe 3% better or 2% cheaper
I'll go to 3 stores, and just ask for the price and say "Thank you! I'll come back when I'm decided."
That way, there is minimal haggling, and I know I'm not getting completely ripped off. Still, it's more work than just checking online. But depending on the price of the item, it may be worth it.
I'll go to 3 stores, and just ask for the price and say "Thank you! I'll come back when I'm decided."
That way, there is minimal haggling, and I know I'm not getting completely ripped off. Still, it's more work than just checking online. But depending on the price of the item, it may be worth it.
That's Google shopping, and the inventory integration is pretty hard. Lots of stores don't or didn't use reliabile inventory systems. I wonder if the pandemic and in person closures have pushed some shops into maintaining their inventory databases.
> you'll likely buy the very first thing a salesperson has invested face-minutes in, if it just gets the easy 80% of requirements/desires right. "Thanks for your time, but I'll go see if there's another offer that is maybe 3% better or 2% cheaper" isn't something that feels good to all people.
This seems like an extremely positive aspect of going to a local store, not a downside.
This seems like an extremely positive aspect of going to a local store, not a downside.
> 2% cheaper
Unless it's a really big ticket item, going to another store to get it 2% cheaper would almost certainly be a net loss (due to the time involved) vs. just buying the first thing you see at a slightly inflated price.
Unless it's a really big ticket item, going to another store to get it 2% cheaper would almost certainly be a net loss (due to the time involved) vs. just buying the first thing you see at a slightly inflated price.
Even if you are a hard-boiled negotiator, the additional time it takes to visit different stores to make the comparison often isn’t worth it compared to buying the whatever the first floor associate recommends to you.
In that world, what is local availability except that someone happened to already ship some quantity to a location closer to you?
Pretty sure a lot of people just see "Amazon's Choice" and hit Buy Now
"and ghasp talk to real people"
Why add the "gasp" bit? A lot of people don't want to have to talk to people unnecessarily and they certainly don't need to justify themselves. And let's be real: When you talk to someone at a local store you're usually talking to some completely unmotivated teenager who knows positively nothing about the domain and makes everything take much, much longer.
Buying local versus online is playing out identically to the buy downtown rather than at the mall transition: Instead of offering concrete benefits, there is an attempt to control behavior by shaming. It is completely ineffective. "Why efficiently find exactly what you're looking for at a competitive price when you can instead waste your time talking to a lot of different people, doing what you very much don't want to do, to eventually buy something not quite right for more?"
Why add the "gasp" bit? A lot of people don't want to have to talk to people unnecessarily and they certainly don't need to justify themselves. And let's be real: When you talk to someone at a local store you're usually talking to some completely unmotivated teenager who knows positively nothing about the domain and makes everything take much, much longer.
Buying local versus online is playing out identically to the buy downtown rather than at the mall transition: Instead of offering concrete benefits, there is an attempt to control behavior by shaming. It is completely ineffective. "Why efficiently find exactly what you're looking for at a competitive price when you can instead waste your time talking to a lot of different people, doing what you very much don't want to do, to eventually buy something not quite right for more?"
> completely unmotivated
As one meme put it: I am a part time seasonal employee half way through my 2-week notice. Do you think I care?
As one meme put it: I am a part time seasonal employee half way through my 2-week notice. Do you think I care?
Last weekend, I went looking for a particular kind of garment. I wasn't hopeful, but I thought I would give local shops a chance. I did it by going around, looking in various local stores, and talking to people. I did this in four or so different spots. I spent probably three to four hours at it.
After that process, I was no closer to the garment I sought than I had been when I woke up. What I had learned from my efforts to shop local and talk to people was that the things I sought weren't carried by anyone nearby.
I went online, and found exactly what I wanted in under ten minutes. It arrived two days later and fit perfectly.
Speaking only and solely for myself, and narrowly about that experience last weekend, I fail to see what I gained. I already knew how to search for what I want. I talked to a few people and mostly learned that none of them could help me.
This raises the question of why I bothered with attempting to buy local when I correctly guessed that it would be fruitless.
I understand that for some people this experience of traipsing from store to store searching for what is not to be found is the most enjoyable part of the whole experience. Sometimes I'm not that person.
After that process, I was no closer to the garment I sought than I had been when I woke up. What I had learned from my efforts to shop local and talk to people was that the things I sought weren't carried by anyone nearby.
I went online, and found exactly what I wanted in under ten minutes. It arrived two days later and fit perfectly.
Speaking only and solely for myself, and narrowly about that experience last weekend, I fail to see what I gained. I already knew how to search for what I want. I talked to a few people and mostly learned that none of them could help me.
This raises the question of why I bothered with attempting to buy local when I correctly guessed that it would be fruitless.
I understand that for some people this experience of traipsing from store to store searching for what is not to be found is the most enjoyable part of the whole experience. Sometimes I'm not that person.
On the other end of the spectrum you have items where expert help is necessary.
When I bought my first motorcycle gear, I had little idea what to look for, what I need, or how to verify it does the job. Going to a store that specializes in motorcycles and gear was fantastic.
They showed me how to fit a helmet, what to look for in a jacket, gloves, etc. I could try multiple items to find which brands fit my body, what looks good, and how the whole ensemble is gonna work together.
You can’t replace that online.
Now that I know more about gear, shopping online is faster and easier. But I still wouldn’t buy a helmet online, for example. You gotta test that stuff.
My friend is getting into video. He’s spent 3 weeks looking for the right lens and camera, bought a bunch, still not happy. Hours wasted, edge cases uncovered, room specifics discovered.
1 trip to a specialist camera store wouldve solved his problem.
My butt has also learned the rather uncomfortable lesson that you never buy a couch online. Your butt needs to try it.
When I bought my first motorcycle gear, I had little idea what to look for, what I need, or how to verify it does the job. Going to a store that specializes in motorcycles and gear was fantastic.
They showed me how to fit a helmet, what to look for in a jacket, gloves, etc. I could try multiple items to find which brands fit my body, what looks good, and how the whole ensemble is gonna work together.
You can’t replace that online.
Now that I know more about gear, shopping online is faster and easier. But I still wouldn’t buy a helmet online, for example. You gotta test that stuff.
My friend is getting into video. He’s spent 3 weeks looking for the right lens and camera, bought a bunch, still not happy. Hours wasted, edge cases uncovered, room specifics discovered.
1 trip to a specialist camera store wouldve solved his problem.
My butt has also learned the rather uncomfortable lesson that you never buy a couch online. Your butt needs to try it.
Unfortunately, things can get quite messy when expert advice gets conflated with inventory management. And most shops struggling to survive against online doesn't make that better at at all. We really need to find some middle ground where foot-on-the-ground shop continue to exist, but not as an antithesis to online but as an extension. For bikes (of the pedal-pushing variety), there's now a market for what is effectively billed by the hour costumer-consulting regarding size fitting. I could easily imagine that getting transformed into foot-on-the-ground presence of online distributors, with neither income stream able to pay three full bill alone but working out in combination.
You're right, the inventory management part gets tricky. On the other hand they claim to only have inventory they trust and promote. So it becomes a question of "Do I trust this influencer's opinion?"
I've seen modern direct-to-consumer brands use the approach you mention. Their revenue stream is instagram ads and online retail, but they also have physical shops in bougie locations where you can go browse and talk to their [sales] staff. They only rep 1 brand which can be an issue.
Personally I've had good luck with specialist stores. You have to go in with a satisficing instead of maximizing mentality and it works great. The average on offer is about 10x better than the average you find online. (because inventory & space are expensive)
I've seen modern direct-to-consumer brands use the approach you mention. Their revenue stream is instagram ads and online retail, but they also have physical shops in bougie locations where you can go browse and talk to their [sales] staff. They only rep 1 brand which can be an issue.
Personally I've had good luck with specialist stores. You have to go in with a satisficing instead of maximizing mentality and it works great. The average on offer is about 10x better than the average you find online. (because inventory & space are expensive)
> On the other hand they claim to only have inventory they trust and promote.
Doesn't matter if it's about size and fit. But I guess that's a problem that is very specific to human powered bikes, where an inexperienced rider can make wildly wrong choices based on just trying a few options (some of the best fits could take a year of regular riding for getting used to). There are lots of online shops in that field that make Amazon pale in both price and inventory depth (e.g. literally hundreds of different bar tapes, probably thousands if you count colors separately), I wonder if there could be an upmark percentage that would be acceptable to both retailers/post-retailers and customers for substituting the package delivery hassle with store pickup. Conventional retail competing with that choice is hopeless in a market consisting of nerd hobbyists. The old guard always thinks that customers only buy online because it's so much cheaper, but choice makes at least as much difference.
I suspect that the seemingly obvious hybrid distribution simply hasn't been done yet at scale because the legalities of customer protection require one party to be on the hook when things don't go so well and the online side of the equally wants to get rid of that so desperately that they wouldn't be interested in any arrangement that wouldn't provide for that and the retailer side is fully aware that they would never get a slice of the pie big enough to make up for those risks.
Doesn't matter if it's about size and fit. But I guess that's a problem that is very specific to human powered bikes, where an inexperienced rider can make wildly wrong choices based on just trying a few options (some of the best fits could take a year of regular riding for getting used to). There are lots of online shops in that field that make Amazon pale in both price and inventory depth (e.g. literally hundreds of different bar tapes, probably thousands if you count colors separately), I wonder if there could be an upmark percentage that would be acceptable to both retailers/post-retailers and customers for substituting the package delivery hassle with store pickup. Conventional retail competing with that choice is hopeless in a market consisting of nerd hobbyists. The old guard always thinks that customers only buy online because it's so much cheaper, but choice makes at least as much difference.
I suspect that the seemingly obvious hybrid distribution simply hasn't been done yet at scale because the legalities of customer protection require one party to be on the hook when things don't go so well and the online side of the equally wants to get rid of that so desperately that they wouldn't be interested in any arrangement that wouldn't provide for that and the retailer side is fully aware that they would never get a slice of the pie big enough to make up for those risks.
> 1 trip to a specialist camera store wouldve solved his problem.
Why not both? There’s a lot of web-first brick & mortar companies coming up these days. Coolblue is a good example in NL. They offer expert advice at their stores, and an amazingly modern website experience at the same time. Inventory is all managed via warehouses, like Amazon.
Why not both? There’s a lot of web-first brick & mortar companies coming up these days. Coolblue is a good example in NL. They offer expert advice at their stores, and an amazingly modern website experience at the same time. Inventory is all managed via warehouses, like Amazon.
I prefer to buy at brick and mortar but I question this reason for it. The guy in the plumbing section of the hardware store probably knows where things are on the shelf there, but probably has not done plumbing themselves and probably can't answer my DIY question about what product to use. For that, I end up needing YouTube.
Last Saturday I decided to fix the leaky kitchen faucet installed in the 80's. YouTube had me replacing cartridges @ $22 for pair. They had a former plumber working who down sold me the real fix, a pair of rubber seals w/springs $3.25 This guy told me the cartridges rarely are the problem . . he was right! he also instructed me on how to make the repair.
That entirely depends on the store.
HomeDepot or Lowes? Often times if you are even aware the topic exists you’ll be a step ahead of 75-80% of the staff.
If you go to a proper plumbing or electrical supply place, they can often point out that the video you’re watching isn’t doing work compliant to the local electrical code and you need to do extra step Y or you’ll fail inspection, or that the whole operation is not going to work because the length of your run is too long for the size of pipe/gauge of wire you’re using (which the video never even talks about), and you need to upsize or use a different technique.
Local shops without expertise are definitely not going to do well. Someone with experience and expertise who sells what you need and actually has it in stock? Super Super valuable.
HomeDepot or Lowes? Often times if you are even aware the topic exists you’ll be a step ahead of 75-80% of the staff.
If you go to a proper plumbing or electrical supply place, they can often point out that the video you’re watching isn’t doing work compliant to the local electrical code and you need to do extra step Y or you’ll fail inspection, or that the whole operation is not going to work because the length of your run is too long for the size of pipe/gauge of wire you’re using (which the video never even talks about), and you need to upsize or use a different technique.
Local shops without expertise are definitely not going to do well. Someone with experience and expertise who sells what you need and actually has it in stock? Super Super valuable.
Man, I read the first paragraph and was 100% sure this was going to be a tale of how some garnet salesperson educated you on the intricacies of the market and your life was better for it.
Turned out just how I feel instead... the idea that talking to people at local stores helps you find stuff is fine, except that I don't need help because Google is much, much better at finding stuff.
Even if you don't know exactly what you want, searching online gets you in front of a range of perspectives that you can compare, as opposed to going to the store, where you get the perspective of the person who happens to be working.
Now to be clear, I definitely like to support my local small businesses, but that's mostly because I also own a small business and feel kinship/connection/whatever with them. There are also a few that are better than the internet (e.g. I'd always rather get plants from my local nursery). It's pretty much never because they're better at helping me find something, though.
Turned out just how I feel instead... the idea that talking to people at local stores helps you find stuff is fine, except that I don't need help because Google is much, much better at finding stuff.
Even if you don't know exactly what you want, searching online gets you in front of a range of perspectives that you can compare, as opposed to going to the store, where you get the perspective of the person who happens to be working.
Now to be clear, I definitely like to support my local small businesses, but that's mostly because I also own a small business and feel kinship/connection/whatever with them. There are also a few that are better than the internet (e.g. I'd always rather get plants from my local nursery). It's pretty much never because they're better at helping me find something, though.
Could your need have been satisfied with another product available locally? Was your need for that exact product really only created by browsing online?
For instance I could spend hours reading reviews about power washers and finding the perfect model and then lamenting it not being available at my local hardware store. Or I could just buy whatever corresponding product they have and be just as happy.
For instance I could spend hours reading reviews about power washers and finding the perfect model and then lamenting it not being available at my local hardware store. Or I could just buy whatever corresponding product they have and be just as happy.
In my experience - half the time you’re right. Half the time the local shop product literally will not work, or if it works is incredibly outdated (so very expensive for performance) or so crappy it will be overtaxed during use and break in weeks or days.
And I’m in a major metro area.
When I lived in the sticks? It was more 25% solid, 75% crap.
And I’m in a major metro area.
When I lived in the sticks? It was more 25% solid, 75% crap.
> Could your need have been satisfied with another product available locally? Was your need for that exact product really only created by browsing online?
You raise wise and excellent questions!
In short, no. My desires were not readily met with things available locally. My need was not for a particular product or model, but for a product from a reasonably general category of things with a couple of attributes. There are a variety of products available in the broader market that would have done it for me, only some of which I was aware of. Talking to an array of local small business owners got me a circular set of pointers to other shops to try.
In your example, imagine going to local hardware stores and finding that none had anything that would meet your needs. They'll happily sell you a selection of hoses and send you to another hardware store that has a fine selection of wrenches, but nothing helpful in meeting your needs.
You raise wise and excellent questions!
In short, no. My desires were not readily met with things available locally. My need was not for a particular product or model, but for a product from a reasonably general category of things with a couple of attributes. There are a variety of products available in the broader market that would have done it for me, only some of which I was aware of. Talking to an array of local small business owners got me a circular set of pointers to other shops to try.
In your example, imagine going to local hardware stores and finding that none had anything that would meet your needs. They'll happily sell you a selection of hoses and send you to another hardware store that has a fine selection of wrenches, but nothing helpful in meeting your needs.
I can imagine some future world where ordering garments online works for me. Maybe I could scan my body and see an AR version of the clothing using real physics simulation or something, though I'm also picky about how a fabric feels. So, for me, I can't tell if a garment is going to look good or bad on me unless I try it on. Further, I just don't seem to find what I'm looking for online. I also find looking online slower. Looking at racks of clothing I can see 100s of items at once, looking online I see 9 to 12 per screen and while sure, there's more places to look for some reason it feels like way more work, maybe because it takes more time to pass all the stuff I'm un-interested in.
Still, at least in the USA, I don't find it offline either. The USA or at least SF/LA has almost no variety in clothing. All there are are chain stores. The limited small stores I know of just don't carry enough. Conversely in Tokyo I can find 10x? 20x the variety? At least that's my experience.
Still, at least in the USA, I don't find it offline either. The USA or at least SF/LA has almost no variety in clothing. All there are are chain stores. The limited small stores I know of just don't carry enough. Conversely in Tokyo I can find 10x? 20x the variety? At least that's my experience.
In my particular case, I was dealing with fabrics I'm familiar with, size charts I can trust, and a tape measure I am comfortable applying to my own body. Combined, these factors cut down greatly on the uncertainty. I realize that I don't represent the typical shopper.
I can tell you from experience that SF specifically, and the Bay generally, has a pretty wide variety of clothing available from a series of retailers. I've seen everything from one-person brands to chains and lots of things in between. You sometimes have to go looking for smaller retailers or more unusual styles. The retailers aren't always clustered together like the big chains are around Union Square. It can most definitely be challenging to know where to get started to look, and it took me a while to figure out which ones tend to stock things I like.
LA even has a whole garment production industry. There's a lot of small brands based there for exactly this reason!
I can tell you from experience that SF specifically, and the Bay generally, has a pretty wide variety of clothing available from a series of retailers. I've seen everything from one-person brands to chains and lots of things in between. You sometimes have to go looking for smaller retailers or more unusual styles. The retailers aren't always clustered together like the big chains are around Union Square. It can most definitely be challenging to know where to get started to look, and it took me a while to figure out which ones tend to stock things I like.
LA even has a whole garment production industry. There's a lot of small brands based there for exactly this reason!
I guess it really depends on what you're looking for. If you're buying a book online, it might be worth going to a local bookstore and checking out the other books on the same shelf. You might find a better book (by being able to skim it quickly), or you might come across another book about a hobby you've been wanting to learn more about along the way.
Visiting physical stores allows for "happy accidents" that wouldn't have occurred while shopping online. Targeted ads (or "customers who bought A also bought B") can help, but they seem tuned to maximize profits, not for inspiring new ideas.
Visiting physical stores allows for "happy accidents" that wouldn't have occurred while shopping online. Targeted ads (or "customers who bought A also bought B") can help, but they seem tuned to maximize profits, not for inspiring new ideas.
I've sometimes wished that I could buy ebooks at book stores. I too like the serendipity of wandering aisles and picking up random things. I wish I could take a book to the counter and ask for the ebook version that they could email to me.
Instead, I wander the aisles, then pick up my phone and buy the ebook on Amazon.
Instead, I wander the aisles, then pick up my phone and buy the ebook on Amazon.
You could have easily called ahead to check stock of the item you were in search for.
I think cars are largely to blame for the sorry state of small businesses. Before moving from America to Tokyo, I had never lived in a place with anything even remotely resembling a walkable city center where you can easily browse and pick up what you need from local businesses. Everything is separated by a 15min+ drive, and I likely need to get on the highway to get there. Atlanta was the worst for this.
In Tokyo I have at least 3 daily grocery stores within a 10 minute walk, plus dozens of other small shops selling all kinds of things I might need. For specialty ingredients I've made an effort to hunt for specialty shops importing Indian, Thai, and Chinese ingredients. My favorite place to go is probably Kappabashi, a street lined with dozens of restaurant supply stores.
I've learned which places I should go for which items, and I love the variety it adds to my routine.
In Tokyo I have at least 3 daily grocery stores within a 10 minute walk, plus dozens of other small shops selling all kinds of things I might need. For specialty ingredients I've made an effort to hunt for specialty shops importing Indian, Thai, and Chinese ingredients. My favorite place to go is probably Kappabashi, a street lined with dozens of restaurant supply stores.
I've learned which places I should go for which items, and I love the variety it adds to my routine.
And whenever a city in the US proposes some improvements to the ped/bike experience in a shopping area, the local small business owners will cry bloody murder. As someone who also prefers to walk to nearby stores, I feel no guilt whatsoever about buying stuff online instead of a local merchant. Amazon, for all its faults, has never showed up to a local planning meeting in my town to lobby against a sidewalk or bike lane improvement.
Why do you think that is? I'm not too familiar with local politics. Generally, I believe studies have shown that banning cars from main street in small/medium cities generally increases business, but I've heard of a phenomenon where all the non-main-street businesses make an uproar about how "unfair" it is that main street will be getting more business, and so the whole idea is scrapped.
I agree, haven't lived in tokyo but I've had similar thoughts and experience going from Chicago/NYC to cities like Austin
You are in tokyo. Come on.
Tokyo is not Niigata, or Sendai, or Saitama.
The tokyo bubble is not the same as the rest of japan
Tokyo is not Niigata, or Sendai, or Saitama.
The tokyo bubble is not the same as the rest of japan
I didn't say I was in Sendai. Human societies were designed to a human scale for thousands of years before cars started dividing us all up. American suburbia is one extreme, and Tokyo is another. Somewhere in between, I'd like to think we can find a balance in city design that allows us all to choose the mode of transportation that is most suitable for the journey.
I think the variety of city types is good too. I live in the suburbs of Austin and it suits me perfectly. I wouldn't be happy in a city like Tokyo (although I haven't been there since 1997).
> and ghasp talk to real people
Actually this is a deal breaker. I'm a very personable person and people usually find me the life of the party. But when I'm looking for a specific thing, I'm optimizing for search latency. Spending hours performing the search is not enjoyable to me. When I'm just browsing, I can enjoy that, but most of my purchases are task-oriented.
You can bemoan how "people these days" do things if you want, but it won't get you any closer to understanding why they behave that way.
Actually this is a deal breaker. I'm a very personable person and people usually find me the life of the party. But when I'm looking for a specific thing, I'm optimizing for search latency. Spending hours performing the search is not enjoyable to me. When I'm just browsing, I can enjoy that, but most of my purchases are task-oriented.
You can bemoan how "people these days" do things if you want, but it won't get you any closer to understanding why they behave that way.
I think I’m the only person who considers online shopping less convenient than just going to a local store and buying it.
In person you just walk or drive over to the store, select the item, pay, and go home with the correct product.
Online I have to turn on my computer or open an app. Type in a bunch of stuff, Search around, click cookie consent buttons, avoid newsletters, log in, enter your address, put in your credit card, etc. you finally place the order, now you have to wait 2 days to get your damn product?! It ships, now you need to sync up with your mailman otherwise they can’t drop it off (I live in a city.) I miss the delivery, now I need to go to the post office and pick it up myself. So I go there, it’s after 5 so they’re closed. I take off work early the next day and wait in line. Talk to some pissed off USPS package and carry my package home. Open it up. It’s the wrong product or a Chinese knockoff. You get the picture
I’m of millennial age. The internet isn’t hard for me to use. It just adds extra complexity for me.
I suppose if you need a very specific thing online is better. But that’s rare for me.
In person you just walk or drive over to the store, select the item, pay, and go home with the correct product.
Online I have to turn on my computer or open an app. Type in a bunch of stuff, Search around, click cookie consent buttons, avoid newsletters, log in, enter your address, put in your credit card, etc. you finally place the order, now you have to wait 2 days to get your damn product?! It ships, now you need to sync up with your mailman otherwise they can’t drop it off (I live in a city.) I miss the delivery, now I need to go to the post office and pick it up myself. So I go there, it’s after 5 so they’re closed. I take off work early the next day and wait in line. Talk to some pissed off USPS package and carry my package home. Open it up. It’s the wrong product or a Chinese knockoff. You get the picture
I’m of millennial age. The internet isn’t hard for me to use. It just adds extra complexity for me.
I suppose if you need a very specific thing online is better. But that’s rare for me.
> In person you just walk or drive over to the store, select the item, pay, and go home with the correct product.
I think you mean get the kids ready and put them in the car, drive for 20 minutes to Target, spend another 5 trying to park, schlep from the back of the parking lot to the store in 90 degree heat, wander endlessly around the store because they moved one of your usual purchases into and end-cap. Inevitably there’s some part of my bi-weekly purchase that is sold out and I must now figure out a substitute or make my next shopping trip sooner and off-schedule. Finally I stand around for 10 minutes in line behind someone who does not seem to understand credit cards despite them having existed for 60 years. Finally I load everything into the car, wrestle the children in and drive 20 minutes home. My children are now hungry.
No, I do not consider this more convenient :)
I think you mean get the kids ready and put them in the car, drive for 20 minutes to Target, spend another 5 trying to park, schlep from the back of the parking lot to the store in 90 degree heat, wander endlessly around the store because they moved one of your usual purchases into and end-cap. Inevitably there’s some part of my bi-weekly purchase that is sold out and I must now figure out a substitute or make my next shopping trip sooner and off-schedule. Finally I stand around for 10 minutes in line behind someone who does not seem to understand credit cards despite them having existed for 60 years. Finally I load everything into the car, wrestle the children in and drive 20 minutes home. My children are now hungry.
No, I do not consider this more convenient :)
Two thoughts there. First, my partner and I always send one person to the store, so that we don't have to load up the kids or deal with them in the store.
Second, I think that this shopping experience you describe is a uniquely suburban experience. Going to Target is indeed awful. But, where I live in the city, it's a reasonably pleasant 10 minute walk to the neighborhood hardware store, which has had the same layout for probably 30 years, and you can be in and out in a few minutes. Grocery store is an even more pleasant 5 minute bike ride, and it's also a human-friendly size and easy to get through fairly quickly. Shopping for clothing is still awful, but shopping for clothing is inherently awful but thankfully infrequent.
At my partner's folks' out in a small town, I guess some people do drive an hour round trip to the nearest big box store, but I've always liked that it's a short hop into town, and all the stores are reasonably sized and within a block of each other. With the town's park just a couple blocks away, so we can take turns hanging out with the kids in the playground while the other goes into the store. I guess we don't have as many options, but I'm genuinely happy to choose convenience and happiness over a selection of 73 different kinds of breakfast cereal.
Similar when we're visiting my mom, also in a small town, except that the playground is unfortunately on the complete other side of town from the commercial district.
Then, at my dad's house in a suburban community, it's nothing but big box stores and misery.
Second, I think that this shopping experience you describe is a uniquely suburban experience. Going to Target is indeed awful. But, where I live in the city, it's a reasonably pleasant 10 minute walk to the neighborhood hardware store, which has had the same layout for probably 30 years, and you can be in and out in a few minutes. Grocery store is an even more pleasant 5 minute bike ride, and it's also a human-friendly size and easy to get through fairly quickly. Shopping for clothing is still awful, but shopping for clothing is inherently awful but thankfully infrequent.
At my partner's folks' out in a small town, I guess some people do drive an hour round trip to the nearest big box store, but I've always liked that it's a short hop into town, and all the stores are reasonably sized and within a block of each other. With the town's park just a couple blocks away, so we can take turns hanging out with the kids in the playground while the other goes into the store. I guess we don't have as many options, but I'm genuinely happy to choose convenience and happiness over a selection of 73 different kinds of breakfast cereal.
Similar when we're visiting my mom, also in a small town, except that the playground is unfortunately on the complete other side of town from the commercial district.
Then, at my dad's house in a suburban community, it's nothing but big box stores and misery.
Yep. And the design that centers around big box stores and the roadways and parking lots that they end up "needing" is a large contributor to why the suburbs are so miserable: https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/10/11/the-numbers-d....
It's funny how the human ecosystem works. Bad design decisions over many years lead to opportunity for polluting megacorp.
It's funny how the human ecosystem works. Bad design decisions over many years lead to opportunity for polluting megacorp.
I would add to list sifting thru 100s of reviews then wondering if they or the 4.5 star rating are from bots, lazy people or those who just unwrapped it.
On the plus side you can shop online when your kids are sleeping.
On the plus side you can shop online when your kids are sleeping.
> Type in a bunch of stuff, Search around, click cookie consent buttons, avoid newsletters, log in, enter your address, put in your credit card, etc.
This is the reason why so many stick with Amazon. You gave them your data already and the only thing remaining are the dark patterns which wants to sell you prime but you probably have that already too so you don't have to wait 2 days.
Also: their computer/phone/tablet is on already.
I honestly buy a lot online because it is convenient. I let it send to my workplace and I don't have to go to the city wasting the few hours that I have left of my day.
There are things though I need to go out to shop. Cloths and food and I can't remember a single trip I enjoyed. I need to look in several shops before I find proper and fitting cloths (I'm tall). If sices would be a true standard I could rely on, this would be the next thing I'd do online. Groceries means shopping in supermarkets which are always too full and I need a parking spot since I got to take a car there because I'm doing it once a week only. I tried doing it through Amazon and it failed spectacularly. It never arrived but they only they told me at 9PM...it was Saturday and there are not many shops open at that time here in Germany.
This is the reason why so many stick with Amazon. You gave them your data already and the only thing remaining are the dark patterns which wants to sell you prime but you probably have that already too so you don't have to wait 2 days.
Also: their computer/phone/tablet is on already.
I honestly buy a lot online because it is convenient. I let it send to my workplace and I don't have to go to the city wasting the few hours that I have left of my day.
There are things though I need to go out to shop. Cloths and food and I can't remember a single trip I enjoyed. I need to look in several shops before I find proper and fitting cloths (I'm tall). If sices would be a true standard I could rely on, this would be the next thing I'd do online. Groceries means shopping in supermarkets which are always too full and I need a parking spot since I got to take a car there because I'm doing it once a week only. I tried doing it through Amazon and it failed spectacularly. It never arrived but they only they told me at 9PM...it was Saturday and there are not many shops open at that time here in Germany.
Seems to be more of an issue with your situation than in general. I've never had to sync up with the mailman, they just drop the package downstairs in my building (I live in a city). Same with UPS, FedEx and so on although sometimes those need to redeliver the next day. I go to amazon, order the item and then pick it up next time I'm downstairs. So much faster than checking the weather in an app, putting on appropriate outdoor clothes, going to a store, browsing their aisles for where they dumped the thing, waiting in line to checkout and so on. It's the difference between 2 minutes and 30 minutes of my time.
Turn on your computer? You can use your phone I suppose, but I'd expect most of us here have their computer already on. If you buy things from a small set of sites, it's very few clicks. Hell I can buy groceries in five minutes (typically picking most of my order from things it offered, since they remember me), and it will be delivered the same day with no additional charge.
That paragraph you wrote describing the online shopping process is accurate but all of that stuff still takes less time than just the drive to the store, nevermind the drive back.
Factoring in the delivery time, local will almost always be faster. Since I live in a city I’ll usually just stop by the relevant store next time I’m near it to grab the thing. But if you’re in a suburb and/or spend most of your time in residential areas I understand the difference.
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Hey guys. I am the creator of this chrome extension. I read tons of your guys comments and I will be sure to update the extension. I do not want to steal data, looking at the source code I do not store data or send it to a different server.
Here is the source code by the way. https://github.com/Bullmeza/BuyNearby
Here is the source code by the way. https://github.com/Bullmeza/BuyNearby
From looking at the extension's source code, it seems that it grabs your last search in eBay/Amazon and sends it to Google Maps. If there was an option to use a different provider (other than GMaps) I would be more inclined to use it [1].
By the way I love the idea behind this extension! It's just that I would prefer not sending all my ecommerce searches to Google.
[1] note that Chrome extensions are not just used by Chrome browser, they are also used by other browsers not made by Google. So it's not impossible that some of the potential users of this extension may want to avoid using Google products where possible.
Edit - I just emailed the dev and offered to help, hopefully we will get in touch.
By the way I love the idea behind this extension! It's just that I would prefer not sending all my ecommerce searches to Google.
[1] note that Chrome extensions are not just used by Chrome browser, they are also used by other browsers not made by Google. So it's not impossible that some of the potential users of this extension may want to avoid using Google products where possible.
Edit - I just emailed the dev and offered to help, hopefully we will get in touch.
In case anyone is reading this and is interested in helping - the dev replied and he is happy for anyone to help, this is the repo https://github.com/Bullmeza/BuyNearby
I can see the reasoning behind this. People don't want to help Bezos get another holiday home; they would rather funnel money into local businesses for obvious reasons (like helping a little boy buy his team jersey or a little girl get dance lessons for example).
One caveat to the local alternatives is the friction involved if it's an e-commerce store where users have to register their details. Most will happily register, but some will find the friction unbearable.
One caveat to the local alternatives is the friction involved if it's an e-commerce store where users have to register their details. Most will happily register, but some will find the friction unbearable.
> People don't want to help Bezos get another holiday home; they would rather funnel money into local businesses for obvious reasons (like helping a little boy buy his team jersey or a little girl get dance lessons for example).
That’s not the world I’ve been living in in the US. People would rather go to national stores like Target, Home Depot, etc. Also, order online and pickup in store is even better than Amazon for me.
That’s not the world I’ve been living in in the US. People would rather go to national stores like Target, Home Depot, etc. Also, order online and pickup in store is even better than Amazon for me.
I used to default to Amazon because of this. But nowadays many shops don't need an account anymore, the browser can autofill that data and credit cards with 3d secure (basically 2fa) seem safe enough. Finding those shops to me is now the "hardest" part.
It may take just a minute to enter your contact and payment info, but then it takes half an hour to figure out their returns policy, shipping fees and delivery windows.
I buy a lot more from tiny businesses if they operate on top of Amazon's platform.
I buy a lot more from tiny businesses if they operate on top of Amazon's platform.
In Europe, they are bound by the same law, so return policies are not something I worry about. Shipping fees are clearly stated at checkout and honestly so damn cheap that I don't care. Delivery windows? It's the same delivery companies that Amazon uses or used to use. In Germany mostly DHL, who I never had a problem with.
It's fine if your prefer what you prefer, I'm just saying that the experience of buying from random, smaller online shops got a lot better lately and is coming closer to Amazon.
It's fine if your prefer what you prefer, I'm just saying that the experience of buying from random, smaller online shops got a lot better lately and is coming closer to Amazon.
>In Europe, they are bound by the same law, so return policies are not something I worry about.
No, the law does not mandate a specific returns policy. It just sets minimum standards. I can return almost anything to Amazon for free if I don't like it. I don't do that very often, but knowing that I can is one of the biggest incentives for me to buy from Amazon.
>Shipping fees are clearly stated at checkout and honestly so damn cheap that I don't care.
I have often gone through a lengthy ordering process before finding out at the very last step that my £20 order would incur a £5 delivery fee. And it's fine. It often doesn't make economic sense to make free deliveries to the doorstep. But that's yet another reason in favour of small stores sharing a logistics platform such as Amazon.
>Delivery windows? It's the same delivery companies that Amazon uses or used to use. In Germany mostly DHL, who I never had a problem with.
Here in London Amazon makes most deliveries directly. I can track deliveries in real-time and I know what they do if I'm not home. I had lots of issues with other logistics companies. They often lie about having made a delivery attempt and drop off parcels at some distant shop or depot.
No, the law does not mandate a specific returns policy. It just sets minimum standards. I can return almost anything to Amazon for free if I don't like it. I don't do that very often, but knowing that I can is one of the biggest incentives for me to buy from Amazon.
>Shipping fees are clearly stated at checkout and honestly so damn cheap that I don't care.
I have often gone through a lengthy ordering process before finding out at the very last step that my £20 order would incur a £5 delivery fee. And it's fine. It often doesn't make economic sense to make free deliveries to the doorstep. But that's yet another reason in favour of small stores sharing a logistics platform such as Amazon.
>Delivery windows? It's the same delivery companies that Amazon uses or used to use. In Germany mostly DHL, who I never had a problem with.
Here in London Amazon makes most deliveries directly. I can track deliveries in real-time and I know what they do if I'm not home. I had lots of issues with other logistics companies. They often lie about having made a delivery attempt and drop off parcels at some distant shop or depot.
Well, my experience in Germany is different than yours in London apparently.
> >In Europe, they are bound by the same law, so return policies are not something I worry about.
> No, the law does not mandate a specific returns policy. It just sets minimum standards.
If you're satisfied by that legal-minimum standard it comes to the same.
> No, the law does not mandate a specific returns policy. It just sets minimum standards.
If you're satisfied by that legal-minimum standard it comes to the same.
Apple Pay is a pretty great experience when buying stuff online. I don't have to create an account, just hold my thumb over the button on my iPad and my details and payment is entered automatically.
Apple Pay on the web has made this very convenient. Being able to buy something with just a single button is amazing. Unfortunately it's not available for large swathes of potential customers since it's iOS/macOS only.
There are other, similar services, though. I run an ecommerce store on Shopify, and you've got out of the box integrations with PayPal (which is about 50% of my payments), Amazon Payments and Google Pay, all of which provide a similar experience since they have your payment and shipping info saved.
I don't think Bezos(or Gates, Musk, Zucker) reason in terms of holiday homes anymore. I'm absolutely sure they have a positive impact. They build spaceships, fight disease, and finance science.
Whether the net outcome for humanity as a whole is better or worse with Amazon is highly debatable. By writing
> like helping a little boy buy his team jersey or a little girl get dance lessons for example
you appeal to feelings and divert the discussion in the direction of "But evil billionaires rob children to buy a new yacht!" which is simply not true.
Whether the net outcome for humanity as a whole is better or worse with Amazon is highly debatable. By writing
> like helping a little boy buy his team jersey or a little girl get dance lessons for example
you appeal to feelings and divert the discussion in the direction of "But evil billionaires rob children to buy a new yacht!" which is simply not true.
> They build spaceships, fight disease, and finance science.
Businesses used to pay taxes so the public could do all that.
Nowadays Amazon competes with local stores, while not paying taxes, which that local stores can't avoid.
So these billionaires, evil or not, are concentrating wealth on themselves and shape the world to their liking. And their linking isn't the best for society as a whole.
That doesn't mean that SpaceX isn't cool, or that I didn'tove when Amazon shipped science fiction books to my home, which was far away from any bookstore. But it is very clear that some companies have large negative externalities and their tax invasion and policy influence is really, really, really bad for our society.
Businesses used to pay taxes so the public could do all that.
Nowadays Amazon competes with local stores, while not paying taxes, which that local stores can't avoid.
So these billionaires, evil or not, are concentrating wealth on themselves and shape the world to their liking. And their linking isn't the best for society as a whole.
That doesn't mean that SpaceX isn't cool, or that I didn'tove when Amazon shipped science fiction books to my home, which was far away from any bookstore. But it is very clear that some companies have large negative externalities and their tax invasion and policy influence is really, really, really bad for our society.
> And their linking isn't the best for society as a whole.
See, how can you judge whether it’s going to end up bad if we’re in the middle of it?
See, how can you judge whether it’s going to end up bad if we’re in the middle of it?
What kind of question is that? What are you arguing for?
Do you think extreme concentration of power and wealth is good? Do you want to be free? Do you want to elect your leaders?
Again, this is not about SpaceX and Amazon and other companies. These companies do cool and good stuff! The topic is the concentration of power and wealth and the negative externalities of that.
Do you think extreme concentration of power and wealth is good? Do you want to be free? Do you want to elect your leaders?
Again, this is not about SpaceX and Amazon and other companies. These companies do cool and good stuff! The topic is the concentration of power and wealth and the negative externalities of that.
I think there's no way to tell right now whether there's going to be a net positive or negative outcome.
> Do you think extreme concentration of power and wealth is good?
I mean, it might move the humanity into the positive direction.
> Do you want to be free?
That's such an abstract concept, I don't even know what it means.
> Do you want to elect your leaders?
Whenever I go, people complain about the government, east and west alike. Maybe I don't want to.
I think your reasoning is ideologically charged, without any argumentation. I'm just pointing out that it's hard to judge how the things will turn out now.
> Do you think extreme concentration of power and wealth is good?
I mean, it might move the humanity into the positive direction.
> Do you want to be free?
That's such an abstract concept, I don't even know what it means.
> Do you want to elect your leaders?
Whenever I go, people complain about the government, east and west alike. Maybe I don't want to.
I think your reasoning is ideologically charged, without any argumentation. I'm just pointing out that it's hard to judge how the things will turn out now.
If liking freedom and democracy is ideologically charged for you we might just not be able to find common ground for a discussion here.
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
"They build spaceships, fight disease, and finance science."
They do it not for humanity but to earn more money. Its always money, power, and fame at the end.
They do it not for humanity but to earn more money. Its always money, power, and fame at the end.
> They do it not for humanity but to earn more money. Its always money, power, and fame at the end.
I think that depends on how you see the world. I believe there’re people who aren’t driven only by desire to have more money.
I think that depends on how you see the world. I believe there’re people who aren’t driven only by desire to have more money.
There are those people, they are just a set of people that doesn't intersect the set of major tech CEOs.
Absolutely. I saw that website were Bezos’ wealth was measured out in pixels. He could easily eradicate a disease, wipe out all student debt or something else you can dream of, but afaik he isn’t doing that.
Maybe because his wealth is measured by the stock he owns and the price would drop should he decide to dump it.
So his wealth is illusory? He can't, say, buy a huge yacht or multiple homes or any other major expenditure?
Well, it's an illusion to a certain extent. However, it's an incredible amount of wealth. His net worth increased by 75 billion in 2020. Perhaps that's an illusion and he could only liquidate that stock into 20 billion in the short term. That means he could still buy a 50 million dollar home every day of the year.
To answer your question, he can certainly buy a yacht or multiple homes at any moment. However, if he wants to cash out 100 billion dollars in stock this year, he's not going to get full value, and he'd have to slowly pull it out over a matter of years or decades to do so.
To answer your question, he can certainly buy a yacht or multiple homes at any moment. However, if he wants to cash out 100 billion dollars in stock this year, he's not going to get full value, and he'd have to slowly pull it out over a matter of years or decades to do so.
Those billionaires don't have to liquidate stocks. They borrow against their stocks to the tune of dozens of billions.
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The general consensus of HN seems to be _the action resulting in the most profit creates the most desirable outcome_ because of 'economics'
I don't understand this fetish with small businesses. For certain industries they're great, but for retail? Many still pay minimum wage with no benefits, so the only one you're helping enrich is the owner who treats their employees as expendable. On top of that, retail really benefits from economies of scale, it's simply more efficient for both you and the business. That efficiency gets passed on to the economy to be spent elsewhere.
> retail really benefits from economies of scale, it's simply more efficient for both you and the business. That efficiency gets passed on to the economy to be spent elsewhere.
Seems more likely to be passed on to shareholders of the large-scale business. And compared to being put into circulation (with a much higher multiplier) in the local small-scale economy, funneling some more moolah into the already overflowing coffers of the Waltons or Bezoses does pretty much diddly-squat for the economy as a whole.
Seems more likely to be passed on to shareholders of the large-scale business. And compared to being put into circulation (with a much higher multiplier) in the local small-scale economy, funneling some more moolah into the already overflowing coffers of the Waltons or Bezoses does pretty much diddly-squat for the economy as a whole.
Glad someone talked from the employee's angle, that's something I have been wondering for a while too.
I can't even remember the last time being a customer of "local businesses" other than restaurants, and don't see a reason to do so, morally or financially.
I can't even remember the last time being a customer of "local businesses" other than restaurants, and don't see a reason to do so, morally or financially.
Can see the use for Amazon (if it's an order directly from Amazon, not a third-party seller) but eBay is a bit harsh. Lots of smaller local businesses doing honest business on there, getting a wider reach because of the platform.
Maybe they'd make a bit more directly rather than after eBay's cut I guess so there's that argument.
Maybe they'd make a bit more directly rather than after eBay's cut I guess so there's that argument.
Would be cool if there was something like Grubhub/Doordash/Uber Eats for local businesses where you could buy "stuff". Might work a little bit better since you could get it quicker than Amazon. I know I've discovered so many new restaurants in my area because of those services that I wouldn't have tried before.
Isn't that the problem Instacart is attempting to solve? I readily admit I'm not a user in order to know if any business is available to be ordered from, but toward that end I don't believe just any business is available for those food delivery ones, either
Nice. I've actually built a startup doing exactly this a few years ago, called PriceLocal [0]. Though, unfortunately, it never really got off the ground in terms of traction.
We ended up spending I think around two years building out the functionality. Most of that time was spent arranging agreements with brick and mortar businesses to share their inventory data with us, so that we could make it function on a per-product basis. You could shop normally on Amazon, and it would drop down a banner when your product was available from a local business at or below the Amazon price. We also had it working as extensions for Chrome, Firefox, and Safari. This article had a good screenshot showing how it actually worked [1].
That was definitely one of the favorite startups I've helped build to date. It was also cool to see it featured on The Today Show [2]. I'm super bummed it didn't end up working out. Good luck to you!
[0] https://www.producthunt.com/posts/pricelocal
[1] https://www.today.com/video/new-app-promises-to-find-amazon-...
[2] https://www.cnet.com/how-to/find-local-stores-that-will-matc...
EDIT: By the way, nice name! I can't believe we didn't think of that.
We ended up spending I think around two years building out the functionality. Most of that time was spent arranging agreements with brick and mortar businesses to share their inventory data with us, so that we could make it function on a per-product basis. You could shop normally on Amazon, and it would drop down a banner when your product was available from a local business at or below the Amazon price. We also had it working as extensions for Chrome, Firefox, and Safari. This article had a good screenshot showing how it actually worked [1].
That was definitely one of the favorite startups I've helped build to date. It was also cool to see it featured on The Today Show [2]. I'm super bummed it didn't end up working out. Good luck to you!
[0] https://www.producthunt.com/posts/pricelocal
[1] https://www.today.com/video/new-app-promises-to-find-amazon-...
[2] https://www.cnet.com/how-to/find-local-stores-that-will-matc...
EDIT: By the way, nice name! I can't believe we didn't think of that.
> Most of that time was spent arranging agreements with brick and mortar businesses to share their inventory data with us
What do you think of this idea
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27090010
to crowd-source local inventory logging via virtual stores?
What do you think of this idea
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27090010
to crowd-source local inventory logging via virtual stores?
I’m trying so hard to shop non-Amazon at the moment. But man they don’t make it easy. Deliveries not showing up for weeks after due date, shipping costing more than the item itself, painful payment solutions (at least take PayPal so I don’t have to go find my credit card!)
Almost all of the comments here seem to ignore that a huge proportion of online businesses are "mom and pop" stores - especially on sites like eBay and Amazon.
Without the sales those two sites drive to my small businesses, I don't know how I'd survive.
Without the sales those two sites drive to my small businesses, I don't know how I'd survive.
My guess is that people buying online aren't going to install an extension whose purpose is to shame them into other behavior.
I've basically switched to buying almost everything online, after getting a hard time from my ex (mother of my daughter) for risking picking up COVID with my regular trips to the grocery store, which is a short walk from my home. (Bizarrely enough, I ended up catching it later when I bought a used car, because I needed to take public transportation to bring my old car home. And yes, my daughter and my ex ended up catching it as well, and they weren't happy).
Until the pandemic is over, I don't see how this sort of thing is a positive. I'm not convinced it is even then, it seems a bit like reminding people of print publications every time they browse the web. The world is changing, tilting at windmills isn't going to change it back.
I've basically switched to buying almost everything online, after getting a hard time from my ex (mother of my daughter) for risking picking up COVID with my regular trips to the grocery store, which is a short walk from my home. (Bizarrely enough, I ended up catching it later when I bought a used car, because I needed to take public transportation to bring my old car home. And yes, my daughter and my ex ended up catching it as well, and they weren't happy).
Until the pandemic is over, I don't see how this sort of thing is a positive. I'm not convinced it is even then, it seems a bit like reminding people of print publications every time they browse the web. The world is changing, tilting at windmills isn't going to change it back.
Just had a golden idea of how to get inventory online. You crowd-source it by rewarding customers to log inventory. Essentially customers are setting up their own little drop-shipping stores with inventory found throughout retail stores around them. Let me know if anyone is interested in helping with this
Just replying to encourage you. I think this is a great idea.
Thank you. Wish i could make it, let me know if you know anyone that can help
You should talk to this person
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27091054
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27091054
Google has https://pointy.withgoogle.com/#overview for stores to publish real time inventory.
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One thing covid taught me is , so far online shopping was seen as supplementary to in-store shopping. Websites are designed in such a way that users know what they want. Unlike in-store shopping which surprises you when you go across the aisle. websites are flat out search based. For Local Businesses, there should be a straight out website, where businesses can enlist for a zipcode and publish their catalog so we can find them. But this is a good start for sure.
Well, I see the point but I'm not sure how well this will work out - When people shop online, they most likely favor the convenience over physical stores right? So how can this sway that person's mind? Another point is that, introverts may not enjoy that much talking with people and online shopping provided them a way of escape.
I'm the type who would use this extension, which means I'm also the type who uses firefox instead of chrome...
Y u p . I'm definitely THAT PERSON today...
I wonder why we don't have an Uber for local shops? There's Uber Eats already, why can't we have Uber Shop?
Great! We need to decentralize the economy away from these conglomerates that have outrun our dated antitrust laws. It will lead to a redistribution of both wealth and power across locations and classes, as well as give customers choice on who to patronize.
I've considered building this in the past, nice to see somebody's actually done it!
I generally avoid browser extensions because they are even less secure than mobile apps.
I am the creator of this app.
There is no reason for this app to be secure. There are no server requests, no stored data and no external sever.
I am confused. How do you find local businesses and check their stock levels?
I do not check stock levels. I am using the google maps Places API to search for keywords. Google has tons of data.
So instead of finding the item I'm looking for, it finds me a local store that sells the same category of items as the category of items I'm looking for.
Only a matter time before they sell user data. Make it open source.
If you're looking for an open source Chrome or Firefox extension that helps people lessen their support of Amazon, then there's this:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/not-today-jeff/hoa...
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/not-today-jef...
https://github.com/codders/not-today-jeff
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/not-today-jeff/hoa...
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/not-today-jef...
https://github.com/codders/not-today-jeff
If you don't want to use Amazon...then just stop using Amazon. No browser extension required.
Odd you're getting downvotes for this. As if to say people have so little self-control that they absolutely can't boycott Amazon without involiving a technical solution.
The parent said "that helps people lessen their support of Amazon". Nobody said anything about boycotting Amazon.
One can still shop at Amazon while appreciating a reminder to shop locally from time to time. Maybe they're going into town the next day and can pick up that item locally instead.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
One can still shop at Amazon while appreciating a reminder to shop locally from time to time. Maybe they're going into town the next day and can pick up that item locally instead.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
Yeah, just add it to your hosts file or something.
Here's the source: https://github.com/Bullmeza/BuyNearby
Try returning something you didn’t like to your friendly neighborhood warm fuzzy store and come back to this thread, let’s continue the conversation
I've returned stuff to physical stores and it's usually pretty easy. And online returns, even if always accepted, are a hassle of repackaging the product and bringing it to a shipping drop-off location.
my local book store is selling lord of the rings books for 35E, the same set is 16E in amazon
I do want to support them, but I cant afford the difference.
I do want to support them, but I cant afford the difference.
I am surprised it works for Amazon India (though I have only searched for two very simple items: protein powder and masks)
Is there one for Firefox? This is great.
Feature request https://github.com/Bullmeza/BuyNearby/issues/1
I want that but still have things delivered. I don't want to drive anywhere to get my stuff.
[deleted]
Loved the idea. While it is US specific. There could be contry wise version of this idea
New web standard that lets sites block extensions coming in 3... 2... 1...
I recall an extension that was looking up amazon stuff on ThePirateBay (movies and books). It didn't last long.
I will give it a try, nice idea
Would love this on safari
drcongo(2)
Hunting for a specific product (for example a washing line) might involve walking into 3 different shops and guessing which shop might sell what you need. When you arrive in the shop, they always arrange aisles differently so unless you have 20 minutes to hunt you might not find it either.
Whereas online it's a simple search and click "buy now". It's probably cheaper too.
Bricks and mortar shops need to do a lot of work on the shopping experience before they're competitive. The only time bricks and mortar shops win are when I need something right now or groceries.