The return of pneumatic tubes(technologyreview.com)
technologyreview.com
The return of pneumatic tubes
https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/06/19/1093446/pneumatic-tubes-hospitals/
165 comments
I used to live in an area with a similar system for rubbish (near Wembley Stadium, in north west London). While it worked, it suffered from a number of “quality of life” issues.
The chute terminals had quite a small aperture, with a sealed door; presumably to make it easier to create the necessary pressure differential. This happened regularly; every 30 minutes (or so) during daylight hours. It was loud. Really loud! With several terminals in a courtyard, running in a sequence, it was almost a never ending reverberation.
Of course, you can’t use them while they’re in this cycle. If anyone overfilled them — which was very easy — or ended up jamming the door open with some misshapen detritus then, try as it might, it just wouldn’t work at all. The building management were regularly seen wielding a broom, to try to force stuck loads down. Then, if you had anything that just couldn’t be made small enough for the chute, you had to use the (limited) dumpsters anyway; many did, because it was often just easier.
That’s not to say I think it wasn’t a good idea. It just needed its rough edges smoothed out a bit.
The chute terminals had quite a small aperture, with a sealed door; presumably to make it easier to create the necessary pressure differential. This happened regularly; every 30 minutes (or so) during daylight hours. It was loud. Really loud! With several terminals in a courtyard, running in a sequence, it was almost a never ending reverberation.
Of course, you can’t use them while they’re in this cycle. If anyone overfilled them — which was very easy — or ended up jamming the door open with some misshapen detritus then, try as it might, it just wouldn’t work at all. The building management were regularly seen wielding a broom, to try to force stuck loads down. Then, if you had anything that just couldn’t be made small enough for the chute, you had to use the (limited) dumpsters anyway; many did, because it was often just easier.
That’s not to say I think it wasn’t a good idea. It just needed its rough edges smoothed out a bit.
my office adjoins a factory where we produce what we engineer in the offices.
The factory has two or maybe three different types of robots delivering all sorts of things from packages to packaging to stainless steel bar.
the robots use the same walkways as the humans.
It seems more and more we are designing robots to occupy and utilize the same spaces as humans. And we're designing the robots to make the humans give way: they're slow, large, bulky, and just stop when confronted. I think it's because humans are a much better robot.
humans (generally, of course) are more agile, can route easily, and move our bodies in unexpected ways to accomplish the task (lift a box up from waist height over an obstacle for example)
though I do get a LITTLE annoyed every time I have to walk around the stupid floor mopping robot in my local stop & shop
The factory has two or maybe three different types of robots delivering all sorts of things from packages to packaging to stainless steel bar.
the robots use the same walkways as the humans.
It seems more and more we are designing robots to occupy and utilize the same spaces as humans. And we're designing the robots to make the humans give way: they're slow, large, bulky, and just stop when confronted. I think it's because humans are a much better robot.
humans (generally, of course) are more agile, can route easily, and move our bodies in unexpected ways to accomplish the task (lift a box up from waist height over an obstacle for example)
though I do get a LITTLE annoyed every time I have to walk around the stupid floor mopping robot in my local stop & shop
>> I do get a LITTLE annoyed every time I have to walk around the stupid floor mopping robot
I ran into one of these things late one night after checking into a hotel. Dead tired, I got off the elevator and was walking down the hall when this 3-foot high dalek started following me. "Can I get you some towels?" I retreated into my room. The next morning I almost tripped over it. It had spent the night outside my door... stalking me.
I ran into one of these things late one night after checking into a hotel. Dead tired, I got off the elevator and was walking down the hall when this 3-foot high dalek started following me. "Can I get you some towels?" I retreated into my room. The next morning I almost tripped over it. It had spent the night outside my door... stalking me.
Perhaps it was simply a very big fan of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and thought that no-one should be without a towel.
There was something very Douglas Adams about that story.
Robot: can I get you some towels?
Man, confused just enters room and shuts door.
Eight hours later he emerges for breakfast.
Robot: well?
Robot: can I get you some towels?
Man, confused just enters room and shuts door.
Eight hours later he emerges for breakfast.
Robot: well?
It must be a Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
It was probably waiting for a tip you cretin! :]
> the robots use the same walkways as the humans.
How much of this is that the robots are far newer than the buildings? How soon till new buildings are designed with designated robotic paths?
Plenty of buildings are designed with hidden back-of-the-building areas and access routes for maintenance humans. I assume pretty soon they'll have the same for robots too. Then we'll really hit the Star Trek "time to climb through a duct to save the day/stuck robot" type situations.
How much of this is that the robots are far newer than the buildings? How soon till new buildings are designed with designated robotic paths?
Plenty of buildings are designed with hidden back-of-the-building areas and access routes for maintenance humans. I assume pretty soon they'll have the same for robots too. Then we'll really hit the Star Trek "time to climb through a duct to save the day/stuck robot" type situations.
We do that all the time, we just don't usually consider them to be robots. Car factories have all kinds of vehicles transporting car parts along tracks, ceiling mounted rails, etc. Nobody bats an eye about that. If you squint hard enough elevators are a kind of robot on a designated pathway.
But to be called a robot it has to have some human-like (or at least animal-like) quality. Which usually involves either imitating human arms (e.g. typical industrial robot arms), imitating human movement (e.g. Boston dynamics) or using infrastructure designed for humans. If you put a delivery robot on a purpose-built path it has none of those qualities and reverts back to being a normal machine.
But to be called a robot it has to have some human-like (or at least animal-like) quality. Which usually involves either imitating human arms (e.g. typical industrial robot arms), imitating human movement (e.g. Boston dynamics) or using infrastructure designed for humans. If you put a delivery robot on a purpose-built path it has none of those qualities and reverts back to being a normal machine.
> Plenty of buildings are designed with hidden back-of-the-building areas and access routes for maintenance humans. I assume pretty soon they'll have the same for robots too. Then we'll really hit the Star Trek "time to climb through a duct to save the day/stuck robot" type situations.
For some reason, it appears to be a major priority for people to drill tiny holes and channels all through their house so their cables can run through them, out of sight. This is a huge hassle as far as installation goes, but it makes up for it by also being a huge hassle as far as maintenance goes.
What's the problem supposed to be with running cables through clips on the wall? That you'll know they're there? That you can easily access them?
For some reason, it appears to be a major priority for people to drill tiny holes and channels all through their house so their cables can run through them, out of sight. This is a huge hassle as far as installation goes, but it makes up for it by also being a huge hassle as far as maintenance goes.
What's the problem supposed to be with running cables through clips on the wall? That you'll know they're there? That you can easily access them?
> For some reason, it appears to be a major priority for people to drill tiny holes and channels all through their house so their cables can run through them, out of sight. This is a huge hassle as far as installation goes, but it makes up for it by also being a huge hassle as far as maintenance goes.
Install flexible plastic tubes instead and you can just pull out cables when you need to replace them for whatever reason.
Install flexible plastic tubes instead and you can just pull out cables when you need to replace them for whatever reason.
Appearances (which I suspect you know, but just value it less than most).
People want to see a finished wall, not cables, pipes, and ducts.
People want to see a finished wall, not cables, pipes, and ducts.
It will be much cheaper, and not that hard to make the robots super safe and considerate.
And then we send them to Jupiter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Unintentional
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Unintentional
Here in the 3rd world we still often use people instead of robots mainly due to cost, but it's definitely changing. Why struggle with government rules, unions and individuals if a machine can do it?
Jobs are already really hard to come by on all the unskilled levels, it's a bit grim to be honest.
Jobs are already really hard to come by on all the unskilled levels, it's a bit grim to be honest.
>Just watching robots trundle around as though it's normal is an interesting slow creep towards what seemed so futuristic in Star Wars in the 70s and 80s.
My nostalgic reference for this is R.A.L.F. from Flight of the Navigator - https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/R.A.L.F.
My nostalgic reference for this is R.A.L.F. from Flight of the Navigator - https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/R.A.L.F.
Your link is missing the trailing period so it goes to a non-existent page.
The correct link is: <https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/R.A.L.F.>
The correct link is: <https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/R.A.L.F.>
TIL a new (to me) word. No wonder I did poorly on the GRE language section.
trun·dled, trun·dling. to cause (a circular object) to roll along; roll. to convey or move in a wagon, cart, or other wheeled vehicle; wheel: The farmer trundled his produce to market in a rickety wagon. Archaic. to cause to rotate; twirl; spin.
trun·dled, trun·dling. to cause (a circular object) to roll along; roll. to convey or move in a wagon, cart, or other wheeled vehicle; wheel: The farmer trundled his produce to market in a rickety wagon. Archaic. to cause to rotate; twirl; spin.
To add, it is more "to move heavily" - it has a negative correlation to agility and speed.
Cars don't trundle, overloaded trucks do.
Cars don't trundle, overloaded trucks do.
I have a strong sense that modern use of this word is nearly all wiktionary's sense 5: "to move, heavily or clumsily". Wheels don't enter into it.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trundle#Verb
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trundle#Verb
Fun piece of trivia, in the UK those (distance) measuring wheels are called "Trundle Wheels", which is a little redundant:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveyor%27s_wheel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveyor%27s_wheel
>roll
>wheel
>rotate
Trundle sounds vaguely treadmill, which also has something to do with rotation :)
Wonder if the two words are etymologically related.
>wheel
>rotate
Trundle sounds vaguely treadmill, which also has something to do with rotation :)
Wonder if the two words are etymologically related.
The word made sense, I was just surprised there was a special word for rolling robot movement, hopefully it gets more use in the future as robots become more common.
Yes, I did know that the word trundle made sense, because I have come across it before in books, as a kid, in stories for children. E.g. "The gardener trundled his wheelbarrow along the (garden) path."
(The word is not use much nowadays; archaic, as the dictionary entry says.)
I was only speculating about the connection between the two words (trundle and treadmill), because they sound vaguely similar. Maybe they have a common Latin or Old English or Old German root, as many English words do.
Update: I checked, and it seems I may have been partly / loosely correct about the etymological connection:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trundle
Etymology
Noun and Verb
from trundle small wheel, alteration of earlier trendle, from Middle English, circle, ring, wheel, from Old English trendel; akin to Old English trendan to revolve
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/treadmill
c : a mill worked by persons treading on steps on the periphery of a wide wheel having a horizontal axis
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tread
tread 2 of 2 noun 1 a(1) : the part of a wheel or tire that makes contact with a road or rail
Italics mine.
(The word is not use much nowadays; archaic, as the dictionary entry says.)
I was only speculating about the connection between the two words (trundle and treadmill), because they sound vaguely similar. Maybe they have a common Latin or Old English or Old German root, as many English words do.
Update: I checked, and it seems I may have been partly / loosely correct about the etymological connection:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trundle
Etymology
Noun and Verb
from trundle small wheel, alteration of earlier trendle, from Middle English, circle, ring, wheel, from Old English trendel; akin to Old English trendan to revolve
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/treadmill
c : a mill worked by persons treading on steps on the periphery of a wide wheel having a horizontal axis
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tread
tread 2 of 2 noun 1 a(1) : the part of a wheel or tire that makes contact with a road or rail
Italics mine.
This sounds more like convergent evolution rather than a shared root.
Tread derives from Middle English treden; the difference here is to step vs to roll. The latter definition you cite is a newer usage (from the 20th century) which is more directly analogous to the tread on the bottom of one's shoe.
The use of a wheel in a treadmill seems more like an implementation detail; the obvious tie-in (IMO) is "persons treading on steps".
Tread derives from Middle English treden; the difference here is to step vs to roll. The latter definition you cite is a newer usage (from the 20th century) which is more directly analogous to the tread on the bottom of one's shoe.
The use of a wheel in a treadmill seems more like an implementation detail; the obvious tie-in (IMO) is "persons treading on steps".
>vaguely treadmill
I meant to write:
vaguely like treadmill
”Type in haste, correct at leisure" - Me.
Like the quote: "Marry in haste, repent at leisure".
:)
I meant to write:
vaguely like treadmill
”Type in haste, correct at leisure" - Me.
Like the quote: "Marry in haste, repent at leisure".
:)
> Marry in haste, repent at leisure
"regret" at leisure would make more sense, because "repent" doesn't really have the right meaning (is more about wrongdoing/sin).
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/married-in-haste.html
Phrases are sometimes literally meaningless.
"regret" at leisure would make more sense, because "repent" doesn't really have the right meaning (is more about wrongdoing/sin).
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/married-in-haste.html
Phrases are sometimes literally meaningless.
> "regret" at leisure would make more sense
That wouldn't work at all; "regret" doesn't have an intransitive use. You have to be regretting something.
That wouldn't work at all; "regret" doesn't have an intransitive use. You have to be regretting something.
You also have to marry something. Maybe there's a pattern, or maybe poetry does not always follow the same grammatical specificity as prose, or maybe both.
you are right on both points.
there is a term for your latter point:
poetic licence:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artistic_license
aside: I realize i also kind of applied artistic licence in my comment here :), by not capitalizing the first words of my sentences, partly because feeling a bit lazy (on my mobile, typing is tedious and slow enough, even without switching case), and partly because I think single case (no concept of upper and lower case) is a better option.
sanskrit, for example, does not have upper and lower case, just one case, or maybe none.
go figure, er, i mean, go letter ;)
there is a term for your latter point:
poetic licence:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artistic_license
aside: I realize i also kind of applied artistic licence in my comment here :), by not capitalizing the first words of my sentences, partly because feeling a bit lazy (on my mobile, typing is tedious and slow enough, even without switching case), and partly because I think single case (no concept of upper and lower case) is a better option.
sanskrit, for example, does not have upper and lower case, just one case, or maybe none.
go figure, er, i mean, go letter ;)
> You also have to marry something.
What? Where'd you learn English?
Take a look at the first two senses listed in wiktionary ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/marry#Etymology_1 ):
> 1. (intransitive) To enter into the conjugal or connubial state
> 2. (intransitive) To enter into marriage with one another.
What? Where'd you learn English?
Take a look at the first two senses listed in wiktionary ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/marry#Etymology_1 ):
> 1. (intransitive) To enter into the conjugal or connubial state
> 2. (intransitive) To enter into marriage with one another.
Does the following sentence make sense? "I marry."
It's a transitive verb.
It's a transitive verb.
That's not an issue of the verb being obligatorily transitive, since it isn't. You really should look at some usage examples; this isn't a difficult or tricky question.
The problem in your sentence is that the plain form of a verb is used for states, not activities, and marrying is an activity.
"I am marrying today" is just as intransitive, but without the artificially induced grammatical error.
The problem in your sentence is that the plain form of a verb is used for states, not activities, and marrying is an activity.
"I am marrying today" is just as intransitive, but without the artificially induced grammatical error.
"I am marrying today."
That's not a valid sentence, unless the person you are to wed is named "Today". Such is stuff as Abbott and Costello cashed in on.
Of course, taken in context there may be implied antecedents in spoken dialog. Spoken dialog is often incomplete and rife with implied antecedents and frequently does not follow the rules of grammer. Sentence fragments and one-word sentences can about because of that.
That's not a valid sentence, unless the person you are to wed is named "Today". Such is stuff as Abbott and Costello cashed in on.
Of course, taken in context there may be implied antecedents in spoken dialog. Spoken dialog is often incomplete and rife with implied antecedents and frequently does not follow the rules of grammer. Sentence fragments and one-word sentences can about because of that.
It is valid and maybe easier to see with a comma.
“I am marrying, today.”
“Today, I will be marrying.”
It is valid in the context of “i will be engaging in marriage, today (“today, i am entering into a covenant of marriage”)” but it wouldn’t be something that would be heard very often. it’s a more archaic usage.
[deleted]
There's also "I walk", "I eat", "I run", and many more like those.
> Marry in haste, repent at leisure
>"regret" at leisure would make more sense, because "repent" doesn't really have the right meaning (is more about wrongdoing/sin).
Makes sense, now that I read you say it, though I had not thought of that before.
>"regret" at leisure would make more sense, because "repent" doesn't really have the right meaning (is more about wrongdoing/sin).
Makes sense, now that I read you say it, though I had not thought of that before.
never heard that quote before, thanks for sharing!
Welcome.
If you liked that, you must read the autobiography of Benjamin Franklin, if not already read.
He was a polymath: a businessman, a scientist, a diplomat, and much more.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Autobiography_of_Benjami...
>The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin is the traditional name for the unfinished record of his own life written by Benjamin Franklin from 1771 to 1790; however, Franklin appears to have called the work his Memoirs. Although it had a tortuous publication history after Franklin's death, this work has become one of the most famous and influential examples of an autobiography ever written.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
>Benjamin Franklin FRS FRSA FRSE (January 17, 1706 [O.S. January 6, 1705][Note 1] – April 17, 1790) was an American polymath: a leading writer, scientist, inventor, statesman, diplomat, printer, publisher, and political philosopher.[1] Among the most influential intellectuals of his time, Franklin was one of the Founding Fathers of the United States; a drafter and signer of the Declaration of Independence; and the first postmaster general.[2]
If you liked that, you must read the autobiography of Benjamin Franklin, if not already read.
He was a polymath: a businessman, a scientist, a diplomat, and much more.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Autobiography_of_Benjami...
>The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin is the traditional name for the unfinished record of his own life written by Benjamin Franklin from 1771 to 1790; however, Franklin appears to have called the work his Memoirs. Although it had a tortuous publication history after Franklin's death, this work has become one of the most famous and influential examples of an autobiography ever written.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin
>Benjamin Franklin FRS FRSA FRSE (January 17, 1706 [O.S. January 6, 1705][Note 1] – April 17, 1790) was an American polymath: a leading writer, scientist, inventor, statesman, diplomat, printer, publisher, and political philosopher.[1] Among the most influential intellectuals of his time, Franklin was one of the Founding Fathers of the United States; a drafter and signer of the Declaration of Independence; and the first postmaster general.[2]
Nope. The vowel changes significantly for both, but the presence/absence of "n" remains fixed.
"trundle" is related to "trend", also German "trent" and "entrinnen".
"tread" is related to "trot" and "trade".
"trundle" is related to "trend", also German "trent" and "entrinnen".
"tread" is related to "trot" and "trade".
how is tread related to trade?
It looks like "trade" changed meaning significantly between Middle English and now, even though they only converge all the way back in Proto-Indo-European.
ModE tread < MidE treden < OE tredan < PWG *tredan < PG *trudaną < PIE *dreh₂
ModE trade < MidE trade (meaning "track") < MLG trade < OSax trada < PG *tradō < PIE *dreh₂
Also possibly related, assuming we merge the PID *dre_ variants which all have similar meanings:
ModE tread < MidE treden < OE tredan < PWG *tredan < PG *trudaną < PIE *dreh₂
ModE trade < MidE trade (meaning "track") < MLG trade < OSax trada < PG *tradō < PIE *dreh₂
Also possibly related, assuming we merge the PID *dre_ variants which all have similar meanings:
tramp[le]
trap (something that gets stepped on)
dromedary
palindrome (run back again)
? troll
? dorm (allegedly there's an old "sleep" meaning with the same spelling - this is unrelated to "dream, draugr" which means "deceive" though!)I don't understand why they don't enforce dumpsters like any other big city. Then again if there is perpetual incompetence in nyc, it probably means corrupted parties and individuals benefit from the situation somehow.
They’re starting to roll out trash containers in the city, should have been done years ago. There’s a bunch of interconnected factors: all residential buildings in NYC get municipal trash pickup (most other cities require private trash service for large apartment buildings), Manhattan doesn’t have many alleys so trash has to go out front, on-street parking blocks larger curbside bins and using exclusively wheeled cans would crowd the sidewalks. They finally decided to remove some parking spaces to allow for large curbside bins.
You know what crowds the sidewalks worse than wheel bins? Having that same volume of trash bagged and leaking all over the place sustaining local rat populations. Honestly everything you mentioned as a potential con sounds like an improvement to the existing state of affairs.
Ok that's clever. I suspect if would be difficult in many places to find enough pavement slots without re-routing a lot of cables and pipes. And yet, the Dutch must have introduced this solution relatively recently - I guess they already run all their cables and pipes below the road, not the pavement? I know that while in my street the gas, water, and drains run under the road, the electricity supply is under the pavement.
Lack of space. A trash pile that is gone in 24 to 48 hours isn't permanent - whereas a dumpster is. Not to mention, access to that dumpster by a truck would be difficult.
Hypothetical, but when you have a single block of 10 buildings, each housing 500 people - the trash generated is a lot and if each were to have their own dumpster parked outside, where would cars or delivery trucks park? If parking is allowed between the dumpsters, how would the trucks access those dumpsters? There's no room to park them off-street because the buildings typically abut next to each other without alleys in between.
That's without even mentioning that even if multiple buildings share a dumpster - then you run into the question of how do you deal with illegal dumping? How do you bill each building for trash removal? See: "The Absurd Problem of New York City Trash" by NY Times (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/02/upshot/nyc-tr...)
No paywall version: https://archive.ph/XFAFg
Discussion on that article: https://www.reddit.com/r/urbanplanning/comments/1b5i1xk/the_...
A study: https://manhattan.institute/article/innovative-waste-managem...
What I'm trying to get at is that the trash problem in NYC, and any proposed solution, raises a lot more questions than anything else.
I for one, would love to see Amsterdam inspired under-sidewalk bins (https://www.core77.com/posts/102208/Amsterdams-Smart-System-...)
Hypothetical, but when you have a single block of 10 buildings, each housing 500 people - the trash generated is a lot and if each were to have their own dumpster parked outside, where would cars or delivery trucks park? If parking is allowed between the dumpsters, how would the trucks access those dumpsters? There's no room to park them off-street because the buildings typically abut next to each other without alleys in between.
That's without even mentioning that even if multiple buildings share a dumpster - then you run into the question of how do you deal with illegal dumping? How do you bill each building for trash removal? See: "The Absurd Problem of New York City Trash" by NY Times (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/03/02/upshot/nyc-tr...)
No paywall version: https://archive.ph/XFAFg
Discussion on that article: https://www.reddit.com/r/urbanplanning/comments/1b5i1xk/the_...
A study: https://manhattan.institute/article/innovative-waste-managem...
What I'm trying to get at is that the trash problem in NYC, and any proposed solution, raises a lot more questions than anything else.
I for one, would love to see Amsterdam inspired under-sidewalk bins (https://www.core77.com/posts/102208/Amsterdams-Smart-System-...)
Its permanent if the pile is renewed daily by business owners who refuse to contract sufficient trash service. Somehow big cities around the world have solved dumpsters and not having trash for the rats to go through on the street. No clue why theres always excuses for this issue for nyc.
No online discussion of pneumatic tubes is complete without a mention of the Alameda-Weehawken Burrito Tunnel: https://idlewords.com/2007/04/the_alameda_weehawken_burrito_...
Pretty sure this story is fiction. An America where the best burritos in the country come from San Francisco was what clicked it for me.
I believe it. Denying delicious El Farolito burritos to New Jerseyans would be tantamount to a war crime.
I grew up near Germany's biggest electronics retailers[1] head quarters and they had these tubes ending in their consumer store.
When I was building something and needed a certain component I could just ride my bicycle a few kilometers over the country, say what I needed and a couple of minutes later it would pop out of a tube behind the counter.
I am not very nostalgic, but I miss this immediacy and hope to live long enough to see drone delivery become ubiquitous.
[1] Think RadioShack, but not RadioShack. They claimed to be Europe's biggest, but I have no idea if this was ever true.
When I was building something and needed a certain component I could just ride my bicycle a few kilometers over the country, say what I needed and a couple of minutes later it would pop out of a tube behind the counter.
I am not very nostalgic, but I miss this immediacy and hope to live long enough to see drone delivery become ubiquitous.
[1] Think RadioShack, but not RadioShack. They claimed to be Europe's biggest, but I have no idea if this was ever true.
I feel like a lot of retail should function similar to this way. Stores with shelves of homogenous "stock" is basically asking your customers to navigate a big warehouse while carrying around all their intended purchases; then go stand in a line to pay for those items. They could often easily function as big vending machines. Some stores could be reduced to a few shelves/aisles of 1-sample-per-SKU, where you just scan the barcode from your phone and all your items get sent to you. Preferably not one at a time and not right to the customer, I'd make it where the customer just goes and collects their bagged/carted items when done scanning. The payment could occur at the same time.
Using a grocery store as an example. I'm not a fan of shopping on my phone for some things like groceries. I like to look at the boxes and visually scan the shelves and see things I might not think to search for on my phone. This would allow for it but remove the need to walk up and down 30 aisles. I would still want to pick my produce/meat so this would require a slightly different approach, but the dry goods and other stuff that's typically in center of the store could work.
Using a grocery store as an example. I'm not a fan of shopping on my phone for some things like groceries. I like to look at the boxes and visually scan the shelves and see things I might not think to search for on my phone. This would allow for it but remove the need to walk up and down 30 aisles. I would still want to pick my produce/meat so this would require a slightly different approach, but the dry goods and other stuff that's typically in center of the store could work.
> is basically asking your customers to navigate a big warehouse while carrying around all their intended purchases
Yes. And when you do that they tend to buy more than they originally intended.
> I like to look at the boxes and visually scan the shelves and see things I might not think to search for on my phone.
Precisely. The store and those products are designed with this exact outcome in mind.
> but the dry goods and other stuff that's typically in center of the store could work.
That's why many warehouse stores have home delivery but put a hefty fee on those items. Unless, of course, you spend more than a minimum threshold. It's a narrow margin business so it's hard to reliably make any other type of model work.
Yes. And when you do that they tend to buy more than they originally intended.
> I like to look at the boxes and visually scan the shelves and see things I might not think to search for on my phone.
Precisely. The store and those products are designed with this exact outcome in mind.
> but the dry goods and other stuff that's typically in center of the store could work.
That's why many warehouse stores have home delivery but put a hefty fee on those items. Unless, of course, you spend more than a minimum threshold. It's a narrow margin business so it's hard to reliably make any other type of model work.
I've considered your shopping behavior points and feel like people may actually buy even more since it would be easier to browse the entire selection of SKUs so they would more likely do so each visit. Or, at least, see more of them than they would otherwise as I think most people don't traverse every aisle on each visit in the status quo setup. Stores know this now already and do things like put milk in the back since it's a frequent purchase and you'll buy more if you have to walk by more to get to it. A customer that just runs in for milk still is only seeing an aisle or two of product when they could walk by the majority of store's items on that same aisle if it was a condensed selection.
On the Home delivery point. You're right free home delivery and narrow margins don't mesh. Yet, I have FREE home delivery options at dozens of stores/grocers in my area. I've never seen what I'd call hefty fees for this service. It's usually in the $1-10 range. They really compete for customers with this option; in my area anyway. Also, they push curbside pickup really hard now and it's always free. I've never seen that have a fee, yet someone in the store is being paid to walk around and pick your order off the shelves. We're paying for it somehow and this trend really took off during the same time as inflation ratcheted up, so my guess is it's being baked into prices and every customer is sharing the cost. In any case, I don't see why the in store shopping process couldn't be improved while home delivery coexisted. They each have their place and each customer has their preferences. Using myself as an example again, I do like pickup when it helps the logistics of my day or if I know exactly what I need and maybe I know it's heavy and want to be lazy.
On the Home delivery point. You're right free home delivery and narrow margins don't mesh. Yet, I have FREE home delivery options at dozens of stores/grocers in my area. I've never seen what I'd call hefty fees for this service. It's usually in the $1-10 range. They really compete for customers with this option; in my area anyway. Also, they push curbside pickup really hard now and it's always free. I've never seen that have a fee, yet someone in the store is being paid to walk around and pick your order off the shelves. We're paying for it somehow and this trend really took off during the same time as inflation ratcheted up, so my guess is it's being baked into prices and every customer is sharing the cost. In any case, I don't see why the in store shopping process couldn't be improved while home delivery coexisted. They each have their place and each customer has their preferences. Using myself as an example again, I do like pickup when it helps the logistics of my day or if I know exactly what I need and maybe I know it's heavy and want to be lazy.
The major grocer where I live, H‑E‑B, marks up curbside items a few percent to defray costs. It’s very subtle.
> Yet, I have FREE home delivery options at dozens of stores/grocers in my area.
Are you sure those aren't introductory offers?
> I've never seen what I'd call hefty fees for this service. It's usually in the $1-10 range
Is it being fulfilled by the store or Instacart? I'm referencing Costco which can charge $1 to $3 _per item_ for delivery, unless you order more than $75 in total. Those orders are fulfilled by the warehouse and not a third party.
> They really compete for customers with this option
They might just be outsourcing it and your subsidy is actually the third party investors.
> Also, they push curbside pickup really hard now
What does that look like? It's free, as you say, so what is the incentive, exactly?
> They each have their place and each customer has their preferences.
Which works as long as the cost of each preference is equal. Typically, it is not, which is my point. So you can set your expectations for the "future of grocery" around that, at least, until it changes.
Are you sure those aren't introductory offers?
> I've never seen what I'd call hefty fees for this service. It's usually in the $1-10 range
Is it being fulfilled by the store or Instacart? I'm referencing Costco which can charge $1 to $3 _per item_ for delivery, unless you order more than $75 in total. Those orders are fulfilled by the warehouse and not a third party.
> They really compete for customers with this option
They might just be outsourcing it and your subsidy is actually the third party investors.
> Also, they push curbside pickup really hard now
What does that look like? It's free, as you say, so what is the incentive, exactly?
> They each have their place and each customer has their preferences.
Which works as long as the cost of each preference is equal. Typically, it is not, which is my point. So you can set your expectations for the "future of grocery" around that, at least, until it changes.
I think Costco type models specifically more than others is incented to discourage delivery. They also seem most mission oriented regarding not introducing new costs, even for convenience. In any case, I wasn't really saying thinking delivery itself needs to change but will say that I haven't ever shopped at a Costco and I've also never heard of anything near that cost per item for delivery. It seems silly to even go through the trouble of instating a delivery option if you just want to gouge people for using it. I seems counter to what I think of as Costco's brand (I have read alot of stuff about them from a business perspective and know a ton of people that love the place, it's kind of a cult following thing).
I'm sure the free offers will go away at some point, but it's been available since the pandemic shook things up and is available to all. It's not like a Prime program type thing or a first delivery free promo. I have friends/family that have been using it for years now and never paid a cent (directly to delivery). Most retailers around me have their own pickers. Most employ drivers too, but some use the gig services on the backend as an outsourced delivery (customer wouldn't know at time of order). Pretty much all of them have gotten away from Instcart services although customers can still utilize it if they want to directly. It tends to be expensive so most people I know only use it if they need something from store that doesn't offer delivery. It's pretty rare now I think, but was pretty common pre-pandemic.
Curbside incentive is for customer is convenience. I live in a car dominant city. I think a common scenario I hear of is; can shop on device from anywhere, while taking kids to soccer or whatever, then you just quickly pick it up on the way home (it takes usually less than 5 minutes for them to bring it out). Incentive for business is that this is just expected at this point so they don't want you to shop at the competitor because they do this.
I don't think the cost has to be equal. I do like transparency though and would rather know how much I am paying above in store pricing if they are charging differently across the various channels. I don't always feel like paying extra for what I perceive as minor conveniences, and sometimes the same minor convenience could turn into a major convenience depending on many other factors (if I'm running late to something, can't find the time to go into a store for 30 minutes, kids are being fussy, etc)
I'm sure the free offers will go away at some point, but it's been available since the pandemic shook things up and is available to all. It's not like a Prime program type thing or a first delivery free promo. I have friends/family that have been using it for years now and never paid a cent (directly to delivery). Most retailers around me have their own pickers. Most employ drivers too, but some use the gig services on the backend as an outsourced delivery (customer wouldn't know at time of order). Pretty much all of them have gotten away from Instcart services although customers can still utilize it if they want to directly. It tends to be expensive so most people I know only use it if they need something from store that doesn't offer delivery. It's pretty rare now I think, but was pretty common pre-pandemic.
Curbside incentive is for customer is convenience. I live in a car dominant city. I think a common scenario I hear of is; can shop on device from anywhere, while taking kids to soccer or whatever, then you just quickly pick it up on the way home (it takes usually less than 5 minutes for them to bring it out). Incentive for business is that this is just expected at this point so they don't want you to shop at the competitor because they do this.
I don't think the cost has to be equal. I do like transparency though and would rather know how much I am paying above in store pricing if they are charging differently across the various channels. I don't always feel like paying extra for what I perceive as minor conveniences, and sometimes the same minor convenience could turn into a major convenience depending on many other factors (if I'm running late to something, can't find the time to go into a store for 30 minutes, kids are being fussy, etc)
An approach similar to what you suggest used to exist quite widely - at least in my part of Canada. We had Consumers Distributing, which was popular here and in parts of the U.S. You'd go in, find the item you want in a catalog, fill out a paper slip with the items you want, then hand it in and wait for your items to be brought out.
Beer stores in Ontario used to be like that, too. You'd place your order and pay for it, and shortly thereafter, it would come rolling out of the back of the store on a rolling conveyor.
Beer stores in Ontario used to be like that, too. You'd place your order and pay for it, and shortly thereafter, it would come rolling out of the back of the store on a rolling conveyor.
Argos Extra (Retail store) works like this; you walk in, place your order on an electronic machine (or go to customer services with a paper list of product codes), pay (which can be at the machine if you ordered by machine), wait 5-10 minutes, and all of your goods arrive via conveyor belt.
Here's the entire (customer-accessible) part of one such store:
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2H6TX48/interior-of-an-argos-store...
Here's the entire (customer-accessible) part of one such store:
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2H6TX48/interior-of-an-argos-store...
"Catalog stores" kind of like this do exist, such as Argos in the UK, and Kjell&Co in Sweden. They can stock a huge number of SKUs in a small footprint.
The funny thing about Argos is that it was originally not a store, but just a collection point for promotional giveaways. There was a promotional scheme called "Green Shield Stamps", whereby shops gave the customer a number of stamps with each purchase, and then when you had enough stamps you could collect a gift from the catalogue. But eventually retailers decided that the promotion wasn't benefiting them enough, and pulled out - so the distribution network became a retailer instead.
Unfortunately argos isn't very fast, so the customer experience is not necessarily better than a normal retailer. They seem to focus on lowest cost, which means that they skimp on operatives and waiting times can be long. And of course, it isn't automated!
Unfortunately argos isn't very fast, so the customer experience is not necessarily better than a normal retailer. They seem to focus on lowest cost, which means that they skimp on operatives and waiting times can be long. And of course, it isn't automated!
One of my earliest jobs as a mechanical engineer was checking the pneumatic tube shop drawings for Perth Children's Hospital. Basically looking for bends with too small a radius and appropriate collars through firewalls.
One of the engineers suggested adding a transparent loop the loop passing through the public atrium for a bit of fun but predictably this was denied.
One of the engineers suggested adding a transparent loop the loop passing through the public atrium for a bit of fun but predictably this was denied.
I don’t suppose you have any links to good layman articles about how these work? I am particularly interested in the early systems.
Stanford Hospital has a pneumatic tube system which earned a listing on Atlas Obscura: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/pneumatic-tubes-at-stanf...
Yeah, I would argue they never went away. At $dayjob we also have a tube system for staff to send samples to the laboratory.
You could fit a lot of data in a pneumatic tube capsule full of SSDs, haha. It might give the old hatchback a run for its money.
Still doesn't beat the transfer speed of a jumbo jet full of data tapes.
How about the Emma Marsk loaded with SSD drives?
It might have higher bandwith than the total bandwith of the internet.
What if we special built a space vehicle to hold as many MicroSD-style flash memory chips as we could and blast it off at Voyager speeds?
Nope.... SSDs aren't going to retain data for decades, especially with all of the radiation spewing around outside the protection of mother Earth.
The gold record will last way, way longer, as it's low density data, thus fairly redundant, and you could work around any micrometeorite holes.
The gold record will last way, way longer, as it's low density data, thus fairly redundant, and you could work around any micrometeorite holes.
You're right, I didn't think of the radiation flipping bits\melting stuff, but we could shield it. And to be fair we're talking about going for the bandwidth world (uhh... universe) record, not the data-longevity record. Just make it last as far as Mars or something.
The 747-8F Freighter has PAYLOAD 140000 kg / 308647 lbs with CRUISE SPEED 901 kph / 559 mph with HOLD SIZE 5430x486x304 cm / 2137x191x119 in
A 12TB (uncompressed) Q2078A LTO-8 tape weighs 285.8g Depth: 111mm Height: 45.7mm Width: 113mm
An SSD has better data density. For example Samsung 990 Pro 4TB M.2 NVMe SSD: DIMENSION (WxHxD) 80 x 22 x 2.3 mm with WEIGHT Max 9.0g Weight
Highest density would be raw NAND flash chips: ICs would be ideal.
Maybe 12 inch wafers would be feasible but likely lower data density because flash chips are densely stacked within an IC.
A 12TB (uncompressed) Q2078A LTO-8 tape weighs 285.8g Depth: 111mm Height: 45.7mm Width: 113mm
An SSD has better data density. For example Samsung 990 Pro 4TB M.2 NVMe SSD: DIMENSION (WxHxD) 80 x 22 x 2.3 mm with WEIGHT Max 9.0g Weight
Highest density would be raw NAND flash chips: ICs would be ideal.
Maybe 12 inch wafers would be feasible but likely lower data density because flash chips are densely stacked within an IC.
[deleted]
"Untapped New York" featured an interesting article about the pneumatic tube mail system that was used in NYC:
https://untappedcities.com/2023/10/17/pneumatic-tube-mail-ne...
A lot of the material was also incorporated in their podcast about the same subject:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pneumatic-tube-mail-in...
https://untappedcities.com/2023/10/17/pneumatic-tube-mail-ne...
A lot of the material was also incorporated in their podcast about the same subject:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pneumatic-tube-mail-in...
Yes, the NYC pneumatic tube mail is fascinating!
These tubes were large, 24"L x 8" diameter. You could fit all sorts of stuff in there. It's so interesting to think that food, mail, and small package delivery in NYC could have peaked way back when pneumatic tubes were used (of course only in the optimal case with start/end near one of the 23 tube stations). Also really cool that there was a tube that ran over the Brooklyn bridge for sending mail or burritos between boroughs.
For further reading on unique NYC infrastructure, the New York City steam system is also very interesting and still in operation.
These tubes were large, 24"L x 8" diameter. You could fit all sorts of stuff in there. It's so interesting to think that food, mail, and small package delivery in NYC could have peaked way back when pneumatic tubes were used (of course only in the optimal case with start/end near one of the 23 tube stations). Also really cool that there was a tube that ran over the Brooklyn bridge for sending mail or burritos between boroughs.
For further reading on unique NYC infrastructure, the New York City steam system is also very interesting and still in operation.
I'd love to see an advanced citywide or intra-city logistics system using pneumatic tubes or evacuated tubes in general.
There's interesting non-pneumatic work from the Swiss company Cargo Sous Terrain, with self-poweres robot carriers shuttling materials around a city. Haven't heard or seen much in specifics, but their design material looks flashy & cool, and they supposedly are doing a tunnel. https://spectrum.ieee.org/cargo-sous-terrain
Outside of Atlanta GA, there's Pipedream, which launched a modest-sized intra-city auto omous robot delivery system at the end of 2023, which is cool. https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/worlds-fir...
It probably isn't worth the trouble nor a real efficiency gain but the idea of evacuated tubes with low air resistance or maybe even using real pneumatic pressure sounds cool. Especially for longer distances, higher capacities, the idea of some kind of hyperloop like system but a bit smaller & not human rated would be neat, could eliminate a colossal amount of CO2 & effort.
There's interesting non-pneumatic work from the Swiss company Cargo Sous Terrain, with self-poweres robot carriers shuttling materials around a city. Haven't heard or seen much in specifics, but their design material looks flashy & cool, and they supposedly are doing a tunnel. https://spectrum.ieee.org/cargo-sous-terrain
Outside of Atlanta GA, there's Pipedream, which launched a modest-sized intra-city auto omous robot delivery system at the end of 2023, which is cool. https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/worlds-fir...
It probably isn't worth the trouble nor a real efficiency gain but the idea of evacuated tubes with low air resistance or maybe even using real pneumatic pressure sounds cool. Especially for longer distances, higher capacities, the idea of some kind of hyperloop like system but a bit smaller & not human rated would be neat, could eliminate a colossal amount of CO2 & effort.
I wonder if anyone has done small electric cars on rail(s) in small tunnel like foot to meter diameter. It could do larger tunnel, would be easier to route, and doesn't have to be kept at pressure. My guess is that it is more efficient the pneumatic tubes and easier to deploy. Could probably even use the same containers as above-ground robots or aerial drones.
You had the Mail Rail back in 1927 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Post_Office_Railway
Edit: and before that the Chicago tunnels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tunnel_Company
Edit: and before that the Chicago tunnels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tunnel_Company
I want them with gopros livestreaming
For those smaller ceiling-mounted pod rail things in the Sous Terrain mockups, I'm surprised they're not extending them overground (and that they've dropped them from newer infographics).
Tiny elevated rails seems like it avoids a lot of the problems of both surface-level and flying delivery robots. I'm imagining that they either terminate inside businesses or form up in some kind of stacker that resembles those delivery lockers when full.
(Of course, I know the real reason: It's because humans on mopeds are cheaper, but they're not more efficient.)
Tiny elevated rails seems like it avoids a lot of the problems of both surface-level and flying delivery robots. I'm imagining that they either terminate inside businesses or form up in some kind of stacker that resembles those delivery lockers when full.
(Of course, I know the real reason: It's because humans on mopeds are cheaper, but they're not more efficient.)
[deleted]
> Cargo Sous Terrain
They've been "studying" and issuing PR since 2013, but so far, zero deployment. They are doing worse than The Boring Company.
They've been "studying" and issuing PR since 2013, but so far, zero deployment. They are doing worse than The Boring Company.
I think the last pneumantic tube I saw was decades ago, when banks had drive-throughs.
The lane closest to the bank had a teller, but the other lanes all used pneumantic tubes to send paperwork and money back and forth.
That said, I wonder if pneumatic tubes have been going the way of railroads - extremely useful for their "right-of-ways" to run fiber.
The lane closest to the bank had a teller, but the other lanes all used pneumantic tubes to send paperwork and money back and forth.
That said, I wonder if pneumatic tubes have been going the way of railroads - extremely useful for their "right-of-ways" to run fiber.
Banks still have drive-throughs, my dude. I've literally never seen a bank without one. And a lot of those still have pneumatic tubes.
This is a very population-density-driven thing. Like Starbucks and being standalone buildings with drivethrus vs just being in strip malls. In cities like LA with significant sections of density but also a ton of surrounding burbs you'll see both; in newer burb-only areas, you almost always have the drive-thru.
My local bank has a pneumatic tube. They have a limit of how much cash they'll send through at one time, a few thousand dollars. If you want more than that they're willing to send it in batches. The only reason I've been able to think of is something involving insurance/liability if the tube gets stuck with the cash in it, perhaps to limit the amount the service tech could possibly lose or steal. I should have asked the old manager about it before she retired, she loved to talk shop.
> Banks still have drive-throughs
Whats the use for those? Creating an account takes long, checkout out monye likewise.
I have trouble understanding what might customer do there. Banks are not fast at doing anything.
Whats the use for those? Creating an account takes long, checkout out monye likewise.
I have trouble understanding what might customer do there. Banks are not fast at doing anything.
In Ballard Bank of America has an old drive thru with tubes still in place. But has replaced it all with ATMs that you can use with cars.
I have never seen one in Australia.
Whereas drive through bottle shops (liquor stores) are very common here which seems to sometimes surprise Americans.
Whereas drive through bottle shops (liquor stores) are very common here which seems to sometimes surprise Americans.
In Texas we have drive through liquor stores selling closed bottles and that doesn’t seem too bad, but there are also drive through cocktails (like margaritas) and that always seemed like a bad idea to me. Everybody knows they are going to be consumed on the road.
Oh, that sounds really weird to me.
Ours are basically just normal booze shops. Most people would be buying slabs of beer, bottles of wine, etc. Definitely convenient when you just need to grab something on the way to a party or a dinner or something.
Ours are basically just normal booze shops. Most people would be buying slabs of beer, bottles of wine, etc. Definitely convenient when you just need to grab something on the way to a party or a dinner or something.
Do /they/ have pneumatic tubes? And if not, they should.
The cars that visit them do, usually 4.
It depends, I think.
From my midwestern US perspective, banks downtown tend not to have drive-throughs, and banks that are in lower-density areas always have drive-throughs.
But then, my perception is clouded by my own bias, wherein: I've spent most of my life in areas with zero public transportation and that generally despise pedestrians.
In areas where people tend to walk, bike, or use public transit instead of owning and driving a car, I can imagine that building a drive-through for a bank has very little utility to the bank or the bank's customers.
From my midwestern US perspective, banks downtown tend not to have drive-throughs, and banks that are in lower-density areas always have drive-throughs.
But then, my perception is clouded by my own bias, wherein: I've spent most of my life in areas with zero public transportation and that generally despise pedestrians.
In areas where people tend to walk, bike, or use public transit instead of owning and driving a car, I can imagine that building a drive-through for a bank has very little utility to the bank or the bank's customers.
As radiography students we messed around with these. Sending stupid notes or a sub.
It’s a top notch sandwich delivery system.
Not the same but in a similar vein, I was in a big library once and it was having work done. Inside the ceiling were masses of conveyer belts shipping books to various floors and departments.
It’s a top notch sandwich delivery system.
Not the same but in a similar vein, I was in a big library once and it was having work done. Inside the ceiling were masses of conveyer belts shipping books to various floors and departments.
I always wanted a hugely impractical 1 metre wide tube for pizza delivery.
Now I wonder if an electromagnetic carriage system in such a tube would work, and if so just how expensive would it be?
Thinking about packet switching in 1 metre tubes is fun too. Almost like designing belts in Factorio. Every house would need an end point, and would you use star network topology?
Beyond pizza, Amazon type deliveries via tube would be great. "Delivered within an hour!"
Now I wonder if an electromagnetic carriage system in such a tube would work, and if so just how expensive would it be?
Thinking about packet switching in 1 metre tubes is fun too. Almost like designing belts in Factorio. Every house would need an end point, and would you use star network topology?
Beyond pizza, Amazon type deliveries via tube would be great. "Delivered within an hour!"
I've been interested in Laundry Jet, which is a pneumatic laundry chute. The obvious concern is issues with blockages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6xJ4K7WSQw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6xJ4K7WSQw
The house I grew up in had quite a large central pillar with a hole in it. The purpose was that dirty laundry from the rooms for the adults/children, which we're on the first floor, could be transported to the cellar where the washing machine was.
I still remember when as a child a "situation" arose and I managed to block it with my clothes and my parents had to clear the blockage.
I still remember when as a child a "situation" arose and I managed to block it with my clothes and my parents had to clear the blockage.
There are big versions of that for hospitals and hotels. It seems overkill for a house.
Around 2018, there were companies selling home-sized laundry folding machines for rather high prices. Those seem to have disappeared.
Around 2018, there were companies selling home-sized laundry folding machines for rather high prices. Those seem to have disappeared.
There can be code/insurance issues with laundry chutes as some view them as fire hazards, so I think these pneumatic systems are a compliant alternative.
They were great for landlords in the 70s torching buildings. They provide a path to the roof that turns into a little firestorm.
Basically, by the time anyone notices anything, you have about 5-7 minutes until the roof is involved and the building is a total loss. Unmodified balloon frame buildings are similar.
Basically, by the time anyone notices anything, you have about 5-7 minutes until the roof is involved and the building is a total loss. Unmodified balloon frame buildings are similar.
This is really cool and I’d actually love to have it.
The main issue with it — aside from the limited market; how many houses are big enough to justify the cost, and how many of those are new construction or to-the-studs remodeled in any given year? — will be reliability over time. Central vac systems eventually fail and generally homeowners find it simpler to buy a normal vacuum than to fix the system.
Now this seems like a job for semi-autonomous robots.
The main issue with it — aside from the limited market; how many houses are big enough to justify the cost, and how many of those are new construction or to-the-studs remodeled in any given year? — will be reliability over time. Central vac systems eventually fail and generally homeowners find it simpler to buy a normal vacuum than to fix the system.
Now this seems like a job for semi-autonomous robots.
My family had a house with a central vacuum system in the late 70s. The vacuum was located in the garage, and it detected the loss of suction and turned on when you opened the wall flap to insert the hose. But, yeah, I've always wondered what you do when the seals fail or the vacuum stops working. Our house also had intercoms.
You have the vacuum serviced, of course! Like any other appliance. My parents built their dream home in 1999 and included a central vac, it needed some TLC in the mid 2010's so they called the company up to service it since it had a lifetime warranty.
Naturally 'lifetime' meant for the homeowner who purchased the unit, so the company often didn't have to honor the warranty as failures were uncommon until the 3rd, 4th or 5th owner. The tech was bemused when he came out to work on it since it was his first warranty call.
Naturally 'lifetime' meant for the homeowner who purchased the unit, so the company often didn't have to honor the warranty as failures were uncommon until the 3rd, 4th or 5th owner. The tech was bemused when he came out to work on it since it was his first warranty call.
My parents still live in the house I grew up in which has a central vacuum cleaner.
Theirs is a “Beam” system.
Each outlet has a copper pair of wires running to it, connected to two contact pins on the inside of the outlet, and the vacuum hose has a metal ring on it so that as it’s inserted, it completes an electrical circuit between the two contact pins, signalling the vacuum cleaner turn on, once the circuit is broken, it would turn off.
Perhaps the system you had actually worked like this.
Theirs is a “Beam” system.
Each outlet has a copper pair of wires running to it, connected to two contact pins on the inside of the outlet, and the vacuum hose has a metal ring on it so that as it’s inserted, it completes an electrical circuit between the two contact pins, signalling the vacuum cleaner turn on, once the circuit is broken, it would turn off.
Perhaps the system you had actually worked like this.
The contacts can also deliver 12v power which can be used to run powered brush heads.
Brings back great memories of a house I lived in as a little kid. It had a central vacuum system, which inspired my father's comedic "horror" stories about Ze Vacuum Hoze.
[deleted]
It also may be less about the size of the house and more about the time accrued with said laundry.
Maybe the math of it will end up on something like https://efficiencyiseverything.com/
Maybe the math of it will end up on something like https://efficiencyiseverything.com/
People in 1920s Berlin nightclubs flirted via pneumatic tubes (2017)
[321 points | 11 months ago | 125 comments]
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36854061
[321 points | 11 months ago | 125 comments]
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36854061
by the 1930s they were using table-top telephones: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39993396
> The carriers are limited to those speeds to maintain specimen integrity. If blood samples move faster, for example, blood cells can be destroyed.
It’s not the overall speed that destroys the blood cells, it is the acceleration and deceleration at either end which does it. These tube systems just don’t have the ability to include extensive gradual-acceleration and gradual-deceleration systems at either end.
It’s not the overall speed that destroys the blood cells, it is the acceleration and deceleration at either end which does it. These tube systems just don’t have the ability to include extensive gradual-acceleration and gradual-deceleration systems at either end.
Check out the startup Pipedream.
It sounds to me like building logistics pipelines between hospitals (even partnering with the healthcare pneumatic logistics companies to do this) would be an ideal way to get started. Then expand the network from there with QoS packet prioritization schemes. Similar to how large Fiber Optic networks are done in some regions, or how arpanet started.
It sounds to me like building logistics pipelines between hospitals (even partnering with the healthcare pneumatic logistics companies to do this) would be an ideal way to get started. Then expand the network from there with QoS packet prioritization schemes. Similar to how large Fiber Optic networks are done in some regions, or how arpanet started.
I used to work in a hospital lab, it's a lot of biohazard stuff being moved around so probably best it stays a closed network. The pipedream idea is great. However I don't get why they focus on food/grocery delivery. I'd want them to replace a majority of delivery trucks of the Fedex/UPS/Amazon variety if I was going to allow them to tunnel a citywide network. Quantifying the reduced wear and tear on city roads may even make it an easier sell to local governments.
Growing up in Moore, Oklahoma in the 1960s and 1970s, my mother frequented the C.R. Anthony's store in the City of Moore Shopping Center. They used pneumatic tubes; the person at the check-out counter would put a receipt and money tendered into a tube and off it would go to somewhere, I figured some office in back, where they made change and sent the tube back. You could hear it rattle around a bit as it went on its way, and the way it would come back, zip out onto a open curved "landing strip" and slam into the stop was impressive.
I sooooo want this in my house. As well as a solari board.
It is stupidly expensive, but the vestaboard is pretty dang cool for home or small business use, if 132 characters will suffice. No affiliation, I just like em
I think the price is right for a small business that is trying to catch someone's eye. Very unique and more subtle than a LCD display. I could see it in a coffee shop or a tap-room.
I would love a smaller version for my home office. Not sure what I would use it for. Maybe some app monitoring info.
I would love a smaller version for my home office. Not sure what I would use it for. Maybe some app monitoring info.
> trying to catch someone's eye
And ear.
These things are loud. It is actually a feature in airports and train stations, as it signals that the board is updating and it is worth taking a look, in case there is a delay or something.
But if you don't want a loud notification, these things may get old very quickly.
And ear.
These things are loud. It is actually a feature in airports and train stations, as it signals that the board is updating and it is worth taking a look, in case there is a delay or something.
But if you don't want a loud notification, these things may get old very quickly.
Building one sounds like a pretty fun project!
> solari board
TIL what those are called! I've only ever seen them in movies and when going through Frankfurt airport.
TIL what those are called! I've only ever seen them in movies and when going through Frankfurt airport.
there are 2 I know of in the bay area
- ferry building, listing the next ferry and destination etc
- a certain restaurant cum wine bar, listing bottles avail and a count. when you order a bottle the count decrements. so cool.
- ferry building, listing the next ferry and destination etc
- a certain restaurant cum wine bar, listing bottles avail and a count. when you order a bottle the count decrements. so cool.
> - a certain restaurant cum wine bar, listing bottles avail and a count. when you order a bottle the count decrements. so cool.
Yeah now that you mentioned having one in your house I have the wildest dreams. Like one in my pantry with my shopping list on it so I can check it before going out the door....
Yeah now that you mentioned having one in your house I have the wildest dreams. Like one in my pantry with my shopping list on it so I can check it before going out the door....
Belgian yearly car MOT: they're still using pneumatic tubes in several places around the country for papers. Saw those being used there in 2023.
The Niketown stores in NYC and Chicago delivered shoes via pneumatic tube. You’d tell the sales associate the style/size/color, they’d type it into their handheld device, and a few minutes later the shoebox would appear at the nearest (whatever you call it). It was a pretty clever system, but those stores are now closed, from what I understand.
Does it have to be pneumatic? Electric propulsion would be simpler and not need a tight fit in the tube.
At my bank you have to talk to tellers only over a video screen, which annoys me. But the pneumatic tubes you use to exchange checks, slips, cash, and other materiel makes up for it, they are so fun to use. (The system is presumably for teller safety)
I can think of other reasons to use the tubes:
- At my bank, it lets them operate multiple lanes of drive-through without a teller directly at each lane.
- The failure case of handing valuable, loose slips of paper back and forth from a car window to a building is a whole lot worse than for a bag of fast food.
- At my bank, it lets them operate multiple lanes of drive-through without a teller directly at each lane.
- The failure case of handing valuable, loose slips of paper back and forth from a car window to a building is a whole lot worse than for a bag of fast food.
There may be other reasons! But I should have been more clear, in this example it's not a drive-through, it's an inside lobby with human beings standing in a room! Instead of waiting in line to talk to a teller through a window, you wait in line to talk to a video screen with a phone handset and a pneumatic tube.
Seems a bit dystopian
Agreed. But at least I get to play with pneumatic tubes.
Hey, come to think of it, dystopian pneumatic tube world is the movie Brazil https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846/
Hey, come to think of it, dystopian pneumatic tube world is the movie Brazil https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846/
I found some videos on youtube of hospital pneumatic systems. Not sure they are the ones this article is talking about. Also haven't found any detailed video about these modern systems.
One would think the advent of modern, semi-autonomous robots could fulfill much of the function of pneumatic tubes for transporting small packages across a facility.
That sounds both less efficient and possibly actively dangerous in any reasonably large facility. It will certainly be slower than tube delivery.
High upfront capital costs for tube infrastructure and relative inflexibility once set up might dominate the decision.
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Robots aren't cheap either. And the safety concerns, or maybe even the nuisance of having those robots roaming the hallways, adding to the traffic might trump everything else.
A tube system is cheaper than I thought, about $300-500K for a big hospital system:
https://www.aerocom.co.uk/blog/how-much-does-a-pneumatic-tub...
I don’t know if this takes into consideration facilities remodeling.
https://www.aerocom.co.uk/blog/how-much-does-a-pneumatic-tub...
I don’t know if this takes into consideration facilities remodeling.
When you’re transporting a patient from cardiac theatre to ICU down a long corridor which allows space for a bed and additional equipment (pumps, cardiac assist devices, nitric oxide dispensers) and not much else, it is super annoying (maybe dangerous) to have to negotiate a pass with a robot. I guess you can prewarn the hospital to clear the path, but pneumatic tubes work well and once installed seem very low cost to use/maintain.
I was mainly thinking of use cases outside hospitals. We need to transport items within our facility, and a robot operating at night or in less trafficked areas seemed a better solution. I can see the value of pneumatics in a real-time, busy hospital setting.
> We need to transport items within our facility, and a robot operating at night or in less trafficked areas seemed a better solution.
A robot has to share space with everything else in its path. Mount rails on the ceiling and have carriages hanging off of them that can transport a variety of loads.
The major issue with these though is fire safety (you need to install appropriately sized doors that close in the event of a fire) and getting something certified to allow carrying of stuff directly overhead of people. And if it's really heavy loads, you'll need some sort of reinforcements to support the rails, which may not be doable in some settings, e.g. large long warehouses where the ceiling doubles as roof and is only spec'd to hold the weight of itself and a 50-year-record snowfall.
A robot has to share space with everything else in its path. Mount rails on the ceiling and have carriages hanging off of them that can transport a variety of loads.
The major issue with these though is fire safety (you need to install appropriately sized doors that close in the event of a fire) and getting something certified to allow carrying of stuff directly overhead of people. And if it's really heavy loads, you'll need some sort of reinforcements to support the rails, which may not be doable in some settings, e.g. large long warehouses where the ceiling doubles as roof and is only spec'd to hold the weight of itself and a 50-year-record snowfall.
The return? more like "The only modern use case for pneumatic tubes is Hospitals."
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Costco uses these to transport cash to the main security safe, Costco doesn’t get robbed
Were pneumatic tubes used outside US?
I haven't seen them anywhere except in old US movies.
I haven't seen them anywhere except in old US movies.
I believe they still use them in Costcos to move money around.
Buildings have a connection into which trash is sucked away to the central yard for processing. It's pretty neat and helps keep the island tidy. You don't get any of the normal huge trash piles that litter Manhattan on trash day.
Conversely, our local hospital is now using robots for deliveries. They trundle around and deliver things like meds to the nurses stations on request, and announce it with "Your delivery has arrived".
Just watching robots trundle around as though it's normal is an interesting slow creep towards what seemed so futuristic in Star Wars in the 70s and 80s. Now our local supermarkets (BJs and Stop and Shop) have robots that trundle around checking inventory as well.