My Semester with the Snowflakes(gen.medium.com)
gen.medium.com
My Semester with the Snowflakes
https://gen.medium.com/my-semester-with-the-snowflakes-888285f0e662
54 comments
Previous discussion 4 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21864639
Thanks for the link - it opens up more questions after I listened a while back to the Serial podcast about Bergdahl's desertion that lead to the author's injuries.
https://serialpodcast.org/season-two
https://serialpodcast.org/season-two
I’m not worried about the kids in college now who are too young, busy, and roll their eyes at mainstream American political culture to give a shit about the latest outrage-du-jour on Twitter. They’ll be graduating into the strongest economy in American history. They’ll be just fine.
It’s the young adults who are a few years into their career being crushed by high prices, low wages, holding useless degrees under piles of debt that I imagine make up the majority of the online outage mobs and who are likely going to be a lost generation.
It’s the young adults who are a few years into their career being crushed by high prices, low wages, holding useless degrees under piles of debt that I imagine make up the majority of the online outage mobs and who are likely going to be a lost generation.
Indeed. The millennials that have graduated and entered the workforce after the crash of 2009 have it the hardest.
Who hasn't shopped around for a new job every couple of years is stuck with lower salaries than new grads entering the workforce right now.
Most companies seem contempt to punish the loyalty of their older employees who decided to stick around and reward those who job hop, which is ironic.
Who hasn't shopped around for a new job every couple of years is stuck with lower salaries than new grads entering the workforce right now.
Most companies seem contempt to punish the loyalty of their older employees who decided to stick around and reward those who job hop, which is ironic.
Specifically it’s the ones who are at Yale. They’ll be fine no matter what.
The side effect of the “campus PC” hysteria is it ignores the very real voices of folks that go to commuter schools like I did where the stereotype matches even less than it does in elite circles (where it rings hollow too).
The side effect of the “campus PC” hysteria is it ignores the very real voices of folks that go to commuter schools like I did where the stereotype matches even less than it does in elite circles (where it rings hollow too).
> They’ll be graduating into the strongest economy in American history. They’ll be just fine.
How are you forecasting that future? Seems strange to read it with what you see now and as you phrase the lost generation that's struggling from inflation & low wages..
I'm skeptical but I think the worst is yet to come for the next generations. Unless all the young adults that are struggling don't just all commit suicide in the years to follow. It's going to be a disaster when time comes and they need to retire but cannot. The burden will go on the young even more so than what we can imagine today.
How are you forecasting that future? Seems strange to read it with what you see now and as you phrase the lost generation that's struggling from inflation & low wages..
I'm skeptical but I think the worst is yet to come for the next generations. Unless all the young adults that are struggling don't just all commit suicide in the years to follow. It's going to be a disaster when time comes and they need to retire but cannot. The burden will go on the young even more so than what we can imagine today.
And no mention of the elephant in the room - climate change.
It feels like we're already seeing it here in Sydney, Australia. We've had dangerously low air quality from bush fires for the last 1.5 months and we now have a serious water shortage.
I've been accepting of climate change up until recently - now I'm genuinely worried about the future here.
It feels like we're already seeing it here in Sydney, Australia. We've had dangerously low air quality from bush fires for the last 1.5 months and we now have a serious water shortage.
I've been accepting of climate change up until recently - now I'm genuinely worried about the future here.
Climate change is a known problem. Known problems will be solved, since they can be measured and people are (or in this case, will soon be) incentivized to solve them. Climate change is a huge challenge but not one I particularly worry about since it exists in humanity’s collective consciousness as an idea.
It’s unknown problems you should worry about, that are unnamable because they are unpredictable and unknowable until they happen.
It’s unknown problems you should worry about, that are unnamable because they are unpredictable and unknowable until they happen.
The problem with this thinking is the framing.
The climate change is like going out to desert. The further you go out the hotter and harsher environment and once its too dangerous for you its not enough to stop going forward, but you need to walk all the way back home before you are safe.
The CO2 and others are in the air already causing all weather changes, its not enough to go carbon neutral to stop it. To survive we need to go significantly negative to cut out greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere.
And that the biggest problem.
The climate change is like going out to desert. The further you go out the hotter and harsher environment and once its too dangerous for you its not enough to stop going forward, but you need to walk all the way back home before you are safe.
The CO2 and others are in the air already causing all weather changes, its not enough to go carbon neutral to stop it. To survive we need to go significantly negative to cut out greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere.
And that the biggest problem.
That's a lot of optimism from labeling a problem as known vs unknown. I'm hesitant thinking there is logic from assuming a problem known will be fixed. Also it's not too far fetched to think climate change can snowball while being irreversible.
Consider the massive amount of effort, comparatively, between the effort going on and the conversation around mitigating the risk of climate change, and the risk of the flamzboo event, which is destined to quickly destroy humanity in the next decade.
I can't call it something other than the flamzboo event, since we don't know what it is. The clearest picture one can have of what this event potentially is is by considering events which would have similar impact but are currently fringe in terms of public consciousness such as:
- Supervolcano eruptions
- Asteroid impacts
- AI takeoff
- Engineered bio weapons
- Autonomous lethal weapons
- Commoditized, small nuclear weapons
These are not the things I'm talking about, since they have some level of consciousness, but are the closest examples since they are not top of mind in the public consciousness but are confer high x-risk. The ones I worry about are the ones that we can't know currently, that may be lurking on the horizon. One doesn't have to look far back in history to recognize these problems are typically the ones we get hurt by: surprises.
I can't call it something other than the flamzboo event, since we don't know what it is. The clearest picture one can have of what this event potentially is is by considering events which would have similar impact but are currently fringe in terms of public consciousness such as:
- Supervolcano eruptions
- Asteroid impacts
- AI takeoff
- Engineered bio weapons
- Autonomous lethal weapons
- Commoditized, small nuclear weapons
These are not the things I'm talking about, since they have some level of consciousness, but are the closest examples since they are not top of mind in the public consciousness but are confer high x-risk. The ones I worry about are the ones that we can't know currently, that may be lurking on the horizon. One doesn't have to look far back in history to recognize these problems are typically the ones we get hurt by: surprises.
I don't think I can agree. Sure, something like the plague or an asteroid impact has considerable unknowns and thus considered unfixable/dangerous/worrisome. My scepticism is from observing society, seeing tremendous problems never fixed and when people with authority are aware of it.
I think greed, selfishness and people truly inconsiderate happens on a greater scale than what we imagine with factoring into as an issue with the problem of global warming. I guess my scepticism is from considering the forgoing, before thinking of global warming and then thinking of other problems humanity faced (where people are concerned with their daily lifestyle continuing or improving).
Global warming is somewhat unique in the list of known problems when I think about it. I assume it will be too late, before people start being truly effected and to the point they act on something other than promoting public awareness. I've been living a lifestyle where I always walk to work & back. I don't own a car and I somewhat imagine similar steps need to be taken on a larger scale. I'm doubtful people will go from being knowledgable to acting. I have less faith on corporations and laws changing so they must act if they even care about being fined.
I think greed, selfishness and people truly inconsiderate happens on a greater scale than what we imagine with factoring into as an issue with the problem of global warming. I guess my scepticism is from considering the forgoing, before thinking of global warming and then thinking of other problems humanity faced (where people are concerned with their daily lifestyle continuing or improving).
Global warming is somewhat unique in the list of known problems when I think about it. I assume it will be too late, before people start being truly effected and to the point they act on something other than promoting public awareness. I've been living a lifestyle where I always walk to work & back. I don't own a car and I somewhat imagine similar steps need to be taken on a larger scale. I'm doubtful people will go from being knowledgable to acting. I have less faith on corporations and laws changing so they must act if they even care about being fined.
Global warming will be fixed easily if/when people stop thinking the solution is to drag humanity backwards, instead of pushing humanity forwards.
To think that we've somehow reached the peak of our ability to safely consume energy and resources when we haven't even left our home planet is an extremely short sighted perspective. In 1000 years our ancestors will laugh at those who thought that somehow, after thousands of years of advancement, humanity had found its insurmountable wall to more growth and consumption of the universes' infinite resources in the humble year of 2019 due to a mis-calculation regarding the carbon emissions due to the parochial method used at the time for generating power. It's patently absurd if you take a longer perspective. If we don't survive 1000 years, it surely will not be due to our collective failure to solve this problem.
The more people continue to think that if we just convince people to give up their modern lifestyle we'll solve the problem, the longer the problem will persist.
Instead, we should be striving not to solve global warming as a first order concern, but develop technologies that will radically improve the lives of all people, and solve global warming as one of their side effects.
To think that we've somehow reached the peak of our ability to safely consume energy and resources when we haven't even left our home planet is an extremely short sighted perspective. In 1000 years our ancestors will laugh at those who thought that somehow, after thousands of years of advancement, humanity had found its insurmountable wall to more growth and consumption of the universes' infinite resources in the humble year of 2019 due to a mis-calculation regarding the carbon emissions due to the parochial method used at the time for generating power. It's patently absurd if you take a longer perspective. If we don't survive 1000 years, it surely will not be due to our collective failure to solve this problem.
The more people continue to think that if we just convince people to give up their modern lifestyle we'll solve the problem, the longer the problem will persist.
Instead, we should be striving not to solve global warming as a first order concern, but develop technologies that will radically improve the lives of all people, and solve global warming as one of their side effects.
> I assume it will be too late, before people start being truly effected and to the point they act on something other than promoting public awareness.
That's all too likely. I've been following this for decades. Back in the 80s, what we're seeing now -- disappearing glaciers, far less ice cover in the Arctic Ocean, thawing permafrost, tropical diseases moving poleward, etc -- would have been perceived as catastrophic. But now it's largely ignored by the majority.
> I've been living a lifestyle where I always walk to work & back. I don't own a car ...
I was like that for decades. Now I don't care so much. Because it has basically accomplished nothing.
> ... and I somewhat imagine similar steps need to be taken on a larger scale.
For sure. And far more. But the US is screwed, after decades of suburbanization.
> I'm doubtful people will go from being knowledgable to acting.
Enough people will act enough only when it's truly too late. It's just human nature. We deal with emergencies well. But for slowly moving threats, not so much.
> I have less faith on corporations and laws changing so they must act if they even care about being fined.
Corporations exist to make money. If the climate goes to hell, they'll just make money dealing with that.
That's all too likely. I've been following this for decades. Back in the 80s, what we're seeing now -- disappearing glaciers, far less ice cover in the Arctic Ocean, thawing permafrost, tropical diseases moving poleward, etc -- would have been perceived as catastrophic. But now it's largely ignored by the majority.
> I've been living a lifestyle where I always walk to work & back. I don't own a car ...
I was like that for decades. Now I don't care so much. Because it has basically accomplished nothing.
> ... and I somewhat imagine similar steps need to be taken on a larger scale.
For sure. And far more. But the US is screwed, after decades of suburbanization.
> I'm doubtful people will go from being knowledgable to acting.
Enough people will act enough only when it's truly too late. It's just human nature. We deal with emergencies well. But for slowly moving threats, not so much.
> I have less faith on corporations and laws changing so they must act if they even care about being fined.
Corporations exist to make money. If the climate goes to hell, they'll just make money dealing with that.
Is there any solution in sight?
This interactive MIT tool gives you a feeling for the possible solutions: https://en-roads.climateinteractive.org/
I won't spoil it for you, but you could find out that you might want to phrase that question of yours differently..
I won't spoil it for you, but you could find out that you might want to phrase that question of yours differently..
I struggle to understand what I'm supposed to get out of this tool. If "new technology" has a "huge breakthrough", global warming will be reduced .3 degrees - but we'd better hope that the breakthrough doesn't cause "economic growth" to become "high growth", since that will increase it by .7 degrees. Doesn't matter what the technology does or how the economic growth happens, we can predict their effects... somehow.
I don't think there's much understanding to be gained by attaching sliders with vague, underspecified labels to a graph.
I don't think there's much understanding to be gained by attaching sliders with vague, underspecified labels to a graph.
There is a small explaination for each parameter when you click the ⋮ on the top right of each parameter.
And on the breakthrough technology question: of course we could discover a unknown technology that will instantly solve everything without even having to honor the inertia of the slow but hard to steer forces that make up climate change. And while I really hope this would happen, I'd rather have more realistic scenarios in the meantime.
Suppose we invent free energy. How long will it take for that technology to replace everything on the planet? How much emissions will this distribution of technology produce? Even with fairytale-style-technology overcoming the inertia of the ongoing processes will be anything but easy.
And on the breakthrough technology question: of course we could discover a unknown technology that will instantly solve everything without even having to honor the inertia of the slow but hard to steer forces that make up climate change. And while I really hope this would happen, I'd rather have more realistic scenarios in the meantime.
Suppose we invent free energy. How long will it take for that technology to replace everything on the planet? How much emissions will this distribution of technology produce? Even with fairytale-style-technology overcoming the inertia of the ongoing processes will be anything but easy.
That's why they provide a full-blown training course to make sense of the simulator and associated negotiation roleplaying game:
https://www.climateinteractive.org/tools/en-roads/the-en-roa...
https://www.climateinteractive.org/tools/climate-action-simu...
https://www.climateinteractive.org/tools/en-roads/the-en-roa...
https://www.climateinteractive.org/tools/climate-action-simu...
Even if human CO2/CH4 emissions hit zero tomorrow, it's probably too late. Because of positive feedbacks already triggered. So long term, the solution will be collapse of technological society.
Why? That's weather and short term. https://aqicn.org/map/sydney is the pollution in Sydney. Here is Jakarta https://aqicn.org/map/jakarta
Look at the historical data: all red and yellow for Jakarta, almost all green for Sydney, with the last two months an exception.
Climate change is going to have little to no impact on Sydney now or in the next 50-60 years.
Look at the historical data: all red and yellow for Jakarta, almost all green for Sydney, with the last two months an exception.
Climate change is going to have little to no impact on Sydney now or in the next 50-60 years.
How do you get from a map of the current air quality in Sydney to blithely saying climate change will have "little to no effect" on Sydney for the next 60 years?
It is a common trolling strategy, I have seen it applied elsewhere to delegitimise measures against climate change.
It doesn't make any sense, but apparently it is enough to satisfy the unsophisticated blind followers of climate denialism. Anything that sounds contrarian and data-based is deemed a sufficient response to distract attention, which is scarce in most online discussion forums.
It doesn't make any sense, but apparently it is enough to satisfy the unsophisticated blind followers of climate denialism. Anything that sounds contrarian and data-based is deemed a sufficient response to distract attention, which is scarce in most online discussion forums.
> Climate change is going to have little to no impact on Sydney now or in the next 50-60 years.
Can you expand on that statement a bit? What do you base it on? It seems like we are already seeing adverse effects of global heating (eg https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2912/satellite-data-record-sho...) but maybe I'm missing your point.
Can you expand on that statement a bit? What do you base it on? It seems like we are already seeing adverse effects of global heating (eg https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2912/satellite-data-record-sho...) but maybe I'm missing your point.
Not sure why you chose to compare to Jakarta? The two cities haven't historically had similar air quality.
It’s interesting how much implied context is in this: that someone old, and related to the military (presumably right-leaning from the “snowflake” term), likely distrusts/disrespects someone young and wealthy from the coasts (presumably left-leaning from geography).
Are we really so polarized? Are hundreds of millions so gung-ho to flock away from the center? Can the whole American situation be approximately summed up, statistically, by these two exaggerated caricatures?
It seems that’s the tone of the article. Maybe it’s right, maybe it’s wrong, but either way I would hope that the real situation is more nuanced than that.
Maybe the situation on the ground really is that bad in some places. I don’t leave my house in the US much other than to fly out of the country, and only know what I read online about it. Can someone with direct experiences in these places shed some more light?
Are we really so polarized? Are hundreds of millions so gung-ho to flock away from the center? Can the whole American situation be approximately summed up, statistically, by these two exaggerated caricatures?
It seems that’s the tone of the article. Maybe it’s right, maybe it’s wrong, but either way I would hope that the real situation is more nuanced than that.
Maybe the situation on the ground really is that bad in some places. I don’t leave my house in the US much other than to fly out of the country, and only know what I read online about it. Can someone with direct experiences in these places shed some more light?
I feel like this is a pretty weird reading of the article. The author makes it clear that the real situation is more nuanced than that, that the people he's met at Yale aren't trying to flock away from the center at all.
I feel like the article is written into that presumption/expectation. It comes very much from a “I was like that, but now I am like this” place.
I'd say what is polarized isn't necessarily "all the people", instead the perceived discourse is polarized. And like in any really entrenched discourse, the one side thinks to know exactly what the other side wants and thinks, without ever talking to each other.
One of my best friends became a neonazi years ago. I don't live in that village anymore, but every 3 years I manage to meet him at some party or so. He has a extremely clear (and sadly utterly fantasized) image of my political goals and ideas. One of my goals is apparently to introduce muslim Sharia law nationwide, although I never ever mentioned anything about Sharia law to him.
It isreally hard to speak with him about anything at all, because he always seems to "know" what my opinion is, to the point of misrepresentation, while I am more or less just curious what he wants. What he says is usally a progression of: "I just want the foreigners to respect the rules!", "Deport the foreigners!" or "Shoot the foreigners!", depending on how many beers we are in. The whole thing is spiked with unsolicited explainations why liberal ideas "like mine" (although I am usually more on the realistic side) will never work and it sometimes feels he is telling this more to himself than to me.
This is rightwing Austria, his grandfather was a Nazi and this is where the discourse in the US is moving as well.
One of my best friends became a neonazi years ago. I don't live in that village anymore, but every 3 years I manage to meet him at some party or so. He has a extremely clear (and sadly utterly fantasized) image of my political goals and ideas. One of my goals is apparently to introduce muslim Sharia law nationwide, although I never ever mentioned anything about Sharia law to him.
It isreally hard to speak with him about anything at all, because he always seems to "know" what my opinion is, to the point of misrepresentation, while I am more or less just curious what he wants. What he says is usally a progression of: "I just want the foreigners to respect the rules!", "Deport the foreigners!" or "Shoot the foreigners!", depending on how many beers we are in. The whole thing is spiked with unsolicited explainations why liberal ideas "like mine" (although I am usually more on the realistic side) will never work and it sometimes feels he is telling this more to himself than to me.
This is rightwing Austria, his grandfather was a Nazi and this is where the discourse in the US is moving as well.
Well written piece! Never stop learning.
In a way there's an underlying political statement here on how diverse opinions and education changes perspective.
In a way there's an underlying political statement here on how diverse opinions and education changes perspective.
It’s not really “education” that changed his perspective but rather immersion in a group of people with a completely different mindset. The same could be accomplished spending time with them in a job, a volunteer group, a prison, etc. He also likely wouldn’t have changed his perspective much if he took the courses online asynchronously.
I don't know if this is a thing in the anglosphere but in Germany there is a saying that goes like: if it doesn't changes how you think, it can be hardly called education. Getting educated means you have to let the things you encounter change your view of the world – that doesn't mean you have to change with the wind, but if you are not an idiot you will realize the points where you just wanted something to be true vs. what might actually be the case.
In that sense, the bloke really did get an education. And of course: collegues, professors and the whole environment plays a huge role in education. I'd argue that collegues can be even more important than professors.
In that sense, the bloke really did get an education. And of course: collegues, professors and the whole environment plays a huge role in education. I'd argue that collegues can be even more important than professors.
I wonder what percentage of the United States, due to time commitments related to family and work, get to spend time/immersion in groups other than their facebook/instagram tribe and television/radio broadcasters.
My hunch is that it’s pretty low.
My hunch is that it’s pretty low.
If you are part of an enormous tribe comprising virtually half the country, made up of people who think like you and more or less share your views, why would you hang out with the other tribe?
I don’t think either of these tribes comprise “virtually half the country” or even an approximation thereof.
You are right. Fair point. I jumped and made the association there - but it's the group environment.
Great quote:
"To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect."
> Later at some point during the day, a young student placed a glove with red paint on it on one of the flags as she wanted to demonstrate her displeasure with something…I’m not quite sure what.
> These hardworking kids are very kind and thoughtful. A far cry from the picture that is often painted of them.
I'm... Confused, to say the least. In fact, those two paragraphs encapsulate my confusion at the post in general.
> These hardworking kids are very kind and thoughtful. A far cry from the picture that is often painted of them.
I'm... Confused, to say the least. In fact, those two paragraphs encapsulate my confusion at the post in general.
I love this essay.
Interesting article. Read it this morning. Curious what the 'snowflakes' think about it.
[deleted]
Stop reposting this over and over.
There was once a guy in his mid-40s that tried to rush the fraternity I was in. I don't think there were any rules that prohibited it either except extreme creepiness.
For those who didn't know (like me), "to rush the fraternity" means to join a social organisation at the university:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternities_and_sororities#Ru...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternities_and_sororities#Ru...
Yea they’ve only been around like 250 years or so on both sides of the pond.
Why would people be unwelcome after a certain age? They’re just as valid of a student as anyone else.
“Tried” implies he failed. I wonder if it was due to his own merits, or due to bias against him due to age.
“Tried” implies he failed. I wonder if it was due to his own merits, or due to bias against him due to age.
Because it’s mainly a social club and some of the events include things like date night with a sorority. I’m not sure exactly why, but for some reason girls ages 18-23 really feel weird about being on a date night with someone old enough to be their dad.
The point is, it’s never to late to learn something new but keep in mind your limitations change as you age. People remember their youth as it was yesterday but there are reasons why we prohibit adults talking to minors
Fraternities have very little to do with the education aspect of being a student.
College provides more education opportunities than just those found in the classroom. Social skills are just as fundamental as arithmetic in a successful career.
I always thought the “liberal snowflake” term is quite odd. I guess I could qualify or classified as one. There’s something wrong with that statement. I think the meaning of it is quite the opposite. As a liberal, you realize that you are not a special individual and must cooperate to gain more, to distribute the available resources for some sort of greater progress, such as health care for everyone etc. Being the opposite is just what a snowflake would be. The one of a kind, just me and my capabilities and resources against the rest of the world. If you don’t have an insurance to give the appropriate healthcare to your loved ones, you, and only you are the failure here, not the collective “us”.
I believe I was less liberal in my youth, but since when I got my children I can’t bare the thought of not being able to pay their health care if they ever needed it. Even though that’s not a problem for me, I still think of it very often when I see them sick.
I believe I was less liberal in my youth, but since when I got my children I can’t bare the thought of not being able to pay their health care if they ever needed it. Even though that’s not a problem for me, I still think of it very often when I see them sick.