What cold showers and exercise have in common (2014)(gettingstronger.org)
gettingstronger.org
What cold showers and exercise have in common (2014)
http://gettingstronger.org/2014/02/what-cold-showers-and-exercise-have-in-common/
139 comments
You're a crazy motherfucker, but variety is the spice of life. Props for that. I'm going to stick with heat for my showers and leave cold for when I'm skiing.
I tried cold showers for at least a month. I can confirm it gets easier & feels less painful over time, and there is a kind of rush that you get from it.
But ultimately I stopped. Partly because my hair never washed right in the cold water, but mostly because the showers were making me grumpy & irritable for the rest of the day. I didn't enjoy that feeling, I didn't particularly enjoy the showers, and I didn't notice any productivity or health benefit.
I first heard about cold showers from Joel Runyon, so I'll give him a link [1]. But it quickly went from blogs about "here's a self-motivation idea I'm trying" to "here is my TEDx talk and Cold Shower Therapy™ email course and download the Cold Shower Therapy™ app on the App Store".
[1] http://impossiblehq.com/cold-shower-therapy/
But ultimately I stopped. Partly because my hair never washed right in the cold water, but mostly because the showers were making me grumpy & irritable for the rest of the day. I didn't enjoy that feeling, I didn't particularly enjoy the showers, and I didn't notice any productivity or health benefit.
I first heard about cold showers from Joel Runyon, so I'll give him a link [1]. But it quickly went from blogs about "here's a self-motivation idea I'm trying" to "here is my TEDx talk and Cold Shower Therapy™ email course and download the Cold Shower Therapy™ app on the App Store".
[1] http://impossiblehq.com/cold-shower-therapy/
I've taken cold showers every weekday for the last few years. The way I get around the problems raised (washing hair, etc.) is that I have a really hot shower just before bed. This helps me sleep by lowering my core body temperature.
Cold showers are great and, as someone who's suffered from depression in the past, I go into each day thinking, "what's the worst that could happen"?*
*I realise that sounds flippant, but it's true...
Cold showers are great and, as someone who's suffered from depression in the past, I go into each day thinking, "what's the worst that could happen"?*
*I realise that sounds flippant, but it's true...
So you shower twice a day? My skin wouldn't approve...
The cold water doesn't dry your skin off nearly as much as hot water does.
I've been doing this (both hot, though) most of my life. My skin is fine, but my hair used to take a beating -- now I only wash it every other day, rinsing in between, and it seems to work well.
Joel here :)
Glad you tried it. For my part - I tried to build tools that helped people take action (rather than just read it and think "hey, that's a cool idea"). Pretty much all of them were free if that helps at all.
If the "tm" thing bothered ya, I apologize. Let's call that symptoms of a hangover from a trademark related lawsuit (story coming soon).
Let me know if you want to do pushups in the park anytime soon :)
Glad you tried it. For my part - I tried to build tools that helped people take action (rather than just read it and think "hey, that's a cool idea"). Pretty much all of them were free if that helps at all.
If the "tm" thing bothered ya, I apologize. Let's call that symptoms of a hangover from a trademark related lawsuit (story coming soon).
Let me know if you want to do pushups in the park anytime soon :)
I take them only before bed, it's sort of meditative and helps me get to sleep.
I started taking cold showers outside after my morning run when the heating element in the electric shower failed for the second time.
I just use a house and spray nozzle off the back-yard tap ( winter in Ireland is quite mild! ) and the main benefit I feel is the warmth when entering the house afterwards, rather than the typical step-out-of-shower chill.
After a couple of weeks it becomes a routine and normal showers now feel weak and insufficiently cleansing.
I haven't noticed any particular health benefits, still susceptible to colds and flu.
I just use a house and spray nozzle off the back-yard tap ( winter in Ireland is quite mild! ) and the main benefit I feel is the warmth when entering the house afterwards, rather than the typical step-out-of-shower chill.
After a couple of weeks it becomes a routine and normal showers now feel weak and insufficiently cleansing.
I haven't noticed any particular health benefits, still susceptible to colds and flu.
When I started, it was 2.5 minutes of horrible feelings, then next 2.5 minutes were kinda Okay. Nowadays the adaptation takes like 3 seconds, then I just coast under cold water. And I sometimes take a cold shower at 3am and go to sleep right after. Body adapts.
But I haven't really seen it helping to get rid of belly fat; it helps sore muscles recovery after/during workout significantly though. For belly fat I still need to do all the aerobic exercises and proper diet until 6-pack shows up.
But I haven't really seen it helping to get rid of belly fat; it helps sore muscles recovery after/during workout significantly though. For belly fat I still need to do all the aerobic exercises and proper diet until 6-pack shows up.
I have been doing them for a while. Yes they suck to start but then they start getting meditative.
As winter ended in New England I wanted to up the stakes a bit. Where my wife and I live there is a lovely little waterfall where we go swimming in the summer. Decided to start swimming in Mid March while taking the dog on a walk next to it while she was gone on a trip. Max time in the water at first was maybe 90 seconds but doing it almost everyday since (combined with the changing of the seasons) means now I can stay in as long as I want without discomfort: on the order of 5 minutes.[1]
Side bonus: it has reset my internal thermometer for what is "cold". Most cold snaps are now, by comparison, "ehh this isn't so bad."
[1] http://i.imgur.com/b9GHHQr.jpg
As winter ended in New England I wanted to up the stakes a bit. Where my wife and I live there is a lovely little waterfall where we go swimming in the summer. Decided to start swimming in Mid March while taking the dog on a walk next to it while she was gone on a trip. Max time in the water at first was maybe 90 seconds but doing it almost everyday since (combined with the changing of the seasons) means now I can stay in as long as I want without discomfort: on the order of 5 minutes.[1]
Side bonus: it has reset my internal thermometer for what is "cold". Most cold snaps are now, by comparison, "ehh this isn't so bad."
[1] http://i.imgur.com/b9GHHQr.jpg
I like taking cold showers after getting out of the sauna at the gym. Living in minneapolis though, there is no way in hell I would ever cold shower in the morning before work. The hot shower in the morning and my leather heated seats are the only salvation from the cold ass winter.
The thing is cold showers warm you up by booting up the metabolism.
3 mins after stepping out of a cold shower I'm usually feeling all warm and fuzzy inside, as if I had just kicked some disgusting dog off my porch. (/s)
3 mins after stepping out of a cold shower I'm usually feeling all warm and fuzzy inside, as if I had just kicked some disgusting dog off my porch. (/s)
Lol, you may have convinced me to try a cold shower just because of the great metaphor.
I've been taking cold showers for about a month just because it's been extra hot and humid where I'm from (Singapore), and I've actually been really enjoying it. My water isn't 3 degrees C though, probably more like... 20. I wish I could have it colder.
I recently moved to Singapore and assumed cold showers were pretty much the norm here. Can confirm it's not comparable to having a cold shower elsewhere though, in terms of willpower :)
Perhaps a river or lake can provide you with colder temperatures? I've got a similar issue, I practice outdoor swimming the year round and the temperature doesn't get below 4 degrees. I've got to move countries to swim in colder water
> Perhaps a river or lake can provide you with colder temperatures?
Nah, down there in the equatorial tropics, the only things that get much below 20°C are those in fridges or freezers. The aircons don't go below 16°C.
Nah, down there in the equatorial tropics, the only things that get much below 20°C are those in fridges or freezers. The aircons don't go below 16°C.
Not really, unfortunately:
http://www.seatemperature.org/asia/singapore/singapore.htm
http://www.seatemperature.org/asia/singapore/singapore.htm
I'm not sure a 20 degree shower really counts as a cold shower. That is a comfortable swimming temperature on most summer days and people can easily spend 20-30 minutes in water just to cool off even if they are unaccustomed to taking cold showers at home.
I've only been to such hot countries on vacation, and I think if asked, most people would confirm that they mostly don't use the hot water, except perhaps to sanitize hands with soap.
I've only been to such hot countries on vacation, and I think if asked, most people would confirm that they mostly don't use the hot water, except perhaps to sanitize hands with soap.
I gave it a try as well, after reading an article on getting more energetic throughout the day.
I didn't notice the difference and the cold showers are not something I could get used to. Guess it's different for each person.
I didn't notice the difference and the cold showers are not something I could get used to. Guess it's different for each person.
I take cold showers every now and then (more often in winter actually) and like you said I kind of like it. However what I usually do is warm it up at the end, partly because I like the feeling of warming up from being cold but also because I feel cold the rest of the day otherwise.
Is be curious to hear you expand on points 3 and 4.
Tried it for two weeks once and promptly came down with the worst cold I'd had in a decade. causation? Maybe, maybe not -- but that doesn't incline me to try it again.
Likely causation. Try rather adding 10-15s a day to the duration of your cold shower. Some research shows cold showers after 2-2.5 minutes aren't giving you any benefits and over 10 minutes are outright dangerous (unless you are a pro-athlete in recovery).
Even if you do it for longer time, you can still catch horrible cold - I got deep sinusitis knocking me out for a month and am still have some mild symptoms (it was a combination of a bacterial infection, another virus and cold showers prior to catching it). Be careful!
Even if you do it for longer time, you can still catch horrible cold - I got deep sinusitis knocking me out for a month and am still have some mild symptoms (it was a combination of a bacterial infection, another virus and cold showers prior to catching it). Be careful!
Disagree. I took them for a month and I didn't notice any benefit. This was in February in Denmark at the lowest possible setting btw.
Wow, 3 degrees is not just uncomfortable, but literally cold enough to be painful. Our pool gets down to about that over the winter and sticking my hand in for even a few seconds hurts. Interesting that you found it less painful after a while though.
Cold showers are much harder than getting healthy. I started exercising and changed my diet a few months ago and it felt great after a week or two. And you're right that it keeps getting better.
I tried to take very cold showers for months or swim in winter. It never became less painful.
While this may or may not be true hacker news is particularly susceptible to exercise fads with unconventional scientific explanations.
I think it'd be easier to convince the readership of HN to lose weight and get fit by eating live maggots whilst suspended upside down in a vat of soylent than to just show up to the gym 3x a week.
The most important way to get fit is to show up and do work. The virtues of a programmer (laziness, impatience, hubris), are the opposite of what you need to succeed at physical fitness.
I think it'd be easier to convince the readership of HN to lose weight and get fit by eating live maggots whilst suspended upside down in a vat of soylent than to just show up to the gym 3x a week.
The most important way to get fit is to show up and do work. The virtues of a programmer (laziness, impatience, hubris), are the opposite of what you need to succeed at physical fitness.
"Showing up to the gym 3x a week" is also quite a lazy prescription. That doesn't even actually take exercise into account, nevermind diet.
Also, "weight loss" is a lazy metric for fitness success. Body fat %, for most, would be better, just as one example.
Plus, in this case, taking cold showers could be completely supplemental to a real plan. If nothing else, you would increase your self-discipline.
I do agree with you in the sense that people (in general) are susceptible to exercise fads, but I don't think HN is more than average. Hackers are curious, though - and so you get the interest in the off-beat stuff.
Also, "weight loss" is a lazy metric for fitness success. Body fat %, for most, would be better, just as one example.
Plus, in this case, taking cold showers could be completely supplemental to a real plan. If nothing else, you would increase your self-discipline.
I do agree with you in the sense that people (in general) are susceptible to exercise fads, but I don't think HN is more than average. Hackers are curious, though - and so you get the interest in the off-beat stuff.
> If nothing else, you would increase your self-discipline
If you subscribe to the theory of ego depletion, it could also weaken your resolve for some time.
If you subscribe to the theory of ego depletion, it could also weaken your resolve for some time.
Ok but when I'm showering up at the gym - is a cold shower better? Will I see better/faster/more lasting results?
Seriously. I shower at the gym pre-work, so I'm usually taking a cool shower as it is, but I hadn't heard of cold showers being a thing before this.
Seriously. I shower at the gym pre-work, so I'm usually taking a cool shower as it is, but I hadn't heard of cold showers being a thing before this.
Look it up, but it's possible that cold showers are not good post-exercise due to them hindering blood flow and preventing removal of waste materials from muscles.
[deleted]
Due to the anti-inflammatory effect of low temperature, cold showers soon after resistance exercise may be attenuating muscle hypertrophy response.
Of course, as with most factors other than sleep and nutrition, the magnitude of that effect will likely be unnoticeable to all but elite athletes striving for that 0.5% edge over the competition.
Of course, as with most factors other than sleep and nutrition, the magnitude of that effect will likely be unnoticeable to all but elite athletes striving for that 0.5% edge over the competition.
Cold showers will not leave you as clean. There's a reason you wash your dishes,hands, and underwear on hot water cycles.
I train with weights once in 5-7 days with 8-10 minutes of time under load and 20-25 minutes in the gym. It has been enough to steadily improve my results for the last 3 years. So I suspect that so-called lack of will power is just a signal from the body that one doing something too often.
That's a super-efficient approach for busy people there! (I've long suspected that most bodybuilding-inspired weight-training schedules are overkill for people content with growing at a less rapid pace.) How many exercises do you fit into 8-10 minutes? Don't say "just benching" ;)
I got my exercise list from [1]. Per training I typically do 3-4 different exercises with one or two sets. I do not do any warm ups or stretching. I train mostly with machines as that is safer for me. Training purely with barbell inevitably triggers back pain.
[1] - http://www.amazon.com/Body-Science-Research-Strength-Trainin...
[1] - http://www.amazon.com/Body-Science-Research-Strength-Trainin...
The most effective way to lose weight is to fix your diet and eat less than your total daily calorie limit.
Exercise is great, but it can't fix a broken diet.
Exercise is great, but it can't fix a broken diet.
Agreed but to add onto this I would mention that running a calorie deficit is only 50% of the battle since cardiovascular/muscular/bone health is important for long term health.
To be cute, diet is great but it can't fix a broken (nonexistent) exercise routine.
To be cute, diet is great but it can't fix a broken (nonexistent) exercise routine.
It is all that is required to lose weight. Add exercise for better health, more sex, etc
While fixing the diet is important, the total calorie limit is meaningless. What one eats strongly influence metabolism pathways and the amount of energy that is dissipated as excessive heat.
For example, the body cannot store in any large amounts carbohydrates. So those have to be converted into fat first. Yet compared with pigs humans luck efficient enzymes for that conversion and it takes up to 30% of calories to convert carbohydrates into body fat. Compare that with fat where a typical cost of storage is just 1% of energy.
For example, the body cannot store in any large amounts carbohydrates. So those have to be converted into fat first. Yet compared with pigs humans luck efficient enzymes for that conversion and it takes up to 30% of calories to convert carbohydrates into body fat. Compare that with fat where a typical cost of storage is just 1% of energy.
Define "succeeding at physical fitness".
It's different for everybody.
I walk about 2 hours per day and stretch whenever I can remember and I would consider my current state of physical fitness a success.
You don't have to hit the gym 3x a week to be fit.
It's different for everybody.
I walk about 2 hours per day and stretch whenever I can remember and I would consider my current state of physical fitness a success.
You don't have to hit the gym 3x a week to be fit.
I completely agree, actually. The "best" diet and exercise routine is the one you're going to actually do and adhere to long term. Almost any validated diet (low carb [atkins, keto, paleo], low fat, calorie counting, IIFYM, zone blah blah) combined with any validated exercise routine will help people lose weight and get in better shape. Just pick one and do it. Do the work.
If we were to go by those values, I should be an excellent programmer!
Unfortunately, I am far more proficient in fitness & health than software development.
Unfortunately, I am far more proficient in fitness & health than software development.
And/or make the time to take walks or do other forms of outdoor activities. Cook meals rather than just grabbing some pizza. Etc.
The writer's about page says:
> Todd’s philosophy of Hormetism is the result of years of personal investigation into the role of moderate stress in adaptation, as applied to health, nutrition, rehabilitation and psychology.
Hormetism is the idea that a low dose of a chemical can induce a response that's the opposite of the response seen at a high dose [1].
Hormetism is, to say the least, very controversial. It is at best a seldom observed, poorly understood phenomena that's important for the biological role of nitric oxide and a few other chemicals. At worst, it's like homeopathy: quacktacular pseudoscience. So take this article with a grain of salt.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis
> Todd’s philosophy of Hormetism is the result of years of personal investigation into the role of moderate stress in adaptation, as applied to health, nutrition, rehabilitation and psychology.
Hormetism is the idea that a low dose of a chemical can induce a response that's the opposite of the response seen at a high dose [1].
Hormetism is, to say the least, very controversial. It is at best a seldom observed, poorly understood phenomena that's important for the biological role of nitric oxide and a few other chemicals. At worst, it's like homeopathy: quacktacular pseudoscience. So take this article with a grain of salt.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis
I've looked into cold showers several times, but always end up on some quack's website or a blog post with no convincing evidence. I did a cold shower the other day and it was amazingly refreshing, but it was more of a mental, "Hell yeah, I'm tough!" feeling than probably any metabolic process. Thanks for kicking up some skeptical dirt, a lot of the commenters seem totally convinced.
This is the problem with "alternative therapies". I am sure at least some of them work (yoga for example must have health benefits) but they all get lumped in together with the quack ones as well.
Virtually all medical drugs work by hormesis as in typical doses they are helpful, but overdose is harmful or can even cause dearth.
Is this the same thing as regular exposure to small bits of a food keeping away catastrophic allergies, like with peanuts? Or is that a different thing?
No. The principle of hormesis is that the body's defensive response to a physiological insult is so sufficiently excessive that it produces a net positive to health. This would occur in response to something ordinarily harmful (and thus stimulating such a response), but at a dose low enough that its harm is insufficient to create a net negative. It's important to note that this is actually a characteristic of a dose-response relationship: anything more than a very slight dose is expected to still be harmful.
Most examples of hormesis, well, aren't examples of hormesis. e.g., a quick glance at Google shows "exercise" being given as an example. Exercise, traditionally, is not something considered harmful at all but the tiniest doses.
The peanut thing is just about ensuring that common antigens are presented while the body is still undergoing the creation of peripheral tolerance to foreign antigens. That is, while the body is still young and learning what is and isn't worth upsetting the immune system over, you should go ahead and introduce it to lots of things you don't want it to freak out on.
Most examples of hormesis, well, aren't examples of hormesis. e.g., a quick glance at Google shows "exercise" being given as an example. Exercise, traditionally, is not something considered harmful at all but the tiniest doses.
The peanut thing is just about ensuring that common antigens are presented while the body is still undergoing the creation of peripheral tolerance to foreign antigens. That is, while the body is still young and learning what is and isn't worth upsetting the immune system over, you should go ahead and introduce it to lots of things you don't want it to freak out on.
French Academy of Sciences has publicly claimed that radiation hormesis is a fact.
I would not call hormetism 'very controversial'.
I would not call hormetism 'very controversial'.
Simple physics analysis
Almost all of the energy we get from food is used to heat our bodies, mostly indirectly via our liver, spleen and brain. [ https://www.boundless.com/physics/textbooks/624/work-and-ene... ]
A 40 degC person exposed to 0 degC air would lose heat at twice the rate of normal (40 degC person in 20 degC air). That's because convective heat flow rate is roughly proportional to temperature difference. All that heat has to be made up for by the body's metabolism. So you would burn calories at nearly twice the rate you would normally. It doesn't matter if it comes from brown fat, shivering, waste heat from your brain, or some other process, as long as it's internal to your body, it's taking energy that would otherwise not have been used.
A shower in 0 degC water could be on the order of 100 times more effective than 0 degC air, so you could get the same value from a shorter exposure. [ http://www.engineersedge.com/heat_transfer/convective_heat_t... ]
A cold shower for a couple of minutes a day (0.1 % of your life) would be equivalent to cold air for a couple of hours (10% of your life). That's about 10% more energy used than otherwise. So it sounds like even from a simple heat transfer perspective, cold showers must be effective at losing weight, as long as you don't compensate for that some other way like feeling more hungry afterwards :P
Almost all of the energy we get from food is used to heat our bodies, mostly indirectly via our liver, spleen and brain. [ https://www.boundless.com/physics/textbooks/624/work-and-ene... ]
A 40 degC person exposed to 0 degC air would lose heat at twice the rate of normal (40 degC person in 20 degC air). That's because convective heat flow rate is roughly proportional to temperature difference. All that heat has to be made up for by the body's metabolism. So you would burn calories at nearly twice the rate you would normally. It doesn't matter if it comes from brown fat, shivering, waste heat from your brain, or some other process, as long as it's internal to your body, it's taking energy that would otherwise not have been used.
A shower in 0 degC water could be on the order of 100 times more effective than 0 degC air, so you could get the same value from a shorter exposure. [ http://www.engineersedge.com/heat_transfer/convective_heat_t... ]
A cold shower for a couple of minutes a day (0.1 % of your life) would be equivalent to cold air for a couple of hours (10% of your life). That's about 10% more energy used than otherwise. So it sounds like even from a simple heat transfer perspective, cold showers must be effective at losing weight, as long as you don't compensate for that some other way like feeling more hungry afterwards :P
A cold shower lowers your skin temperature, which in turn causes your body to restrict the blood flow to save heat. When you get out of the shower and back in to the warm you start pumping blood back to the surface again. There is no additional work done to warm you up. Your physics approach is betrayed by biology. We've had thousands of years to evolve an efficient solution to the problem of heat conservation.
Good point, but it looks like there's still a big effect. Vasoconstriction causes up to an extra 10 degC temperature gradient across the skin compared to when they're dilated (less than 1 degC). [ http://www.healthyheating.com/Thermal_Comfort_Working_Copy/d... p572 ] So that halves heat flow rate from what I described. It's like being in a 10 degC environment instead of 0 degC. You could double the length of the cold shower to 5 minutes to compensate.
So having a cold shower has no effect on core temp? What about a cold bath? What about being in the sea after an accident at the higher latitudes??
Also I think you will find that returning your skin to a normal temperature after chilling in in any way (water, aircon, etc) temporarily decreases core temperature after which you expend energy to return it to normal.
We may have had thousands (if not millions) of years to evolve solutions to heat conservation but they aren't perfect, or people would never die in freezing water or conditions.
Also I think you will find that returning your skin to a normal temperature after chilling in in any way (water, aircon, etc) temporarily decreases core temperature after which you expend energy to return it to normal.
We may have had thousands (if not millions) of years to evolve solutions to heat conservation but they aren't perfect, or people would never die in freezing water or conditions.
If your core temperature drops, it's probably because you're losing heat faster than you can generate it. That kind of points to how effective this could be in the limit of being nearly fatal - If you can lose more heat than your body can produce, you're surely doing a pretty good job of burning calories!
Yes, I agree we're far from perfect at conserving heat. We're optimized for other conflicting purposes instead. We don't even have fur.
Yes, I agree we're far from perfect at conserving heat. We're optimized for other conflicting purposes instead. We don't even have fur.
So we can't get hypothermia?
Agreed there will be a reduction in blood flow, but there will still be some warming up required. And I would imagine that the longer you're in the water, the longer you'll get cooling just from a pure conduction basis, irrespective of blood flow.
Not saying that I buy the whole "You'll lose weight based on physics alone!" in so much that it'll be significant, but the effect will be non-zero.
Agreed there will be a reduction in blood flow, but there will still be some warming up required. And I would imagine that the longer you're in the water, the longer you'll get cooling just from a pure conduction basis, irrespective of blood flow.
Not saying that I buy the whole "You'll lose weight based on physics alone!" in so much that it'll be significant, but the effect will be non-zero.
And I always wondered if drinking a glass (16oz) of 0 degrees water was burning the calories required to heat it where you could drink enough water to offset a donut in a morning. (Forgive the lack of math here, I'm about to pass out in bed.)
Quite simple math, since a calorie is the amount of energy required to heat a mL of water by 1°C. Thus a food Calorie (1000 calories) is the amount of energy necessary to heat a liter of water by 1°C. Human body temperature is 37°C, so you burn 37 calories for every liter of 0°C water ingested. The average donut has 195 Calories. Thus you must drink 5.27 liters of 0°C water to cancel out the calories gained from eating a donut. Not very realistic.
No, but still more significant than I would have predicted!
No, you are off by a factor of about 10. 16 oz ~ 500 ml. Body temperature - 40 celsius. 1ml water needs ~ 1 calorie to go up 1 degree celsius. The product is about 20 kcal. A medium dunkin donut is about 200 kcal.
Berkeley did the maths for you: http://w.astro.berkeley.edu/~gmarcy/thermal/tpteacher/jokes/...
(notice the word 'jokes' in the URL, but it's pretty well done)
(notice the word 'jokes' in the URL, but it's pretty well done)
Those numbers seem very peculiar:
> Each ounce of beer contains 16 latent calories, but extracts 1,036 calories (6,216 cal. per 6 oz. portion) in the temperature normalizing process.
I think it's muddling food calories (which are really mislabelled kilocalories) and temperature calories (which aren't). So that 16 should be 16000.
This is why you do this in joules!
> Each ounce of beer contains 16 latent calories, but extracts 1,036 calories (6,216 cal. per 6 oz. portion) in the temperature normalizing process.
I think it's muddling food calories (which are really mislabelled kilocalories) and temperature calories (which aren't). So that 16 should be 16000.
This is why you do this in joules!
One thing I know that cold, exercise, and loud noises all have in common is that the body responds to them by producing adrenaline. People are told by nutritionists to take compounds like tyrosine to make up for the essential nutrients (i.e. phenylalanine) that sustained adrenaline production uses up, if they work in an environment with frequent "shocks" of any of the above types.
I do wonder if actually being in such a phenylalanine-depleted state (which is then also a tyrosine-depleted, phenylethylamine-depleted, L-DOPA-depleted, dopamine-depleted, adrenaline-depleted, and norepinephrine-depleted state) has any long-term effects on the body, which might even be positive. Goodness knows it certainly makes you want to sleep for a week.
(Come to think of it, an interesting question would be whether people with phenylketonuria who grew up on a compensatory dietary-restriction regimen low in phenylalanine—thus causing such sustained deficiencies of all the above—have any physiological differences to people without phenylketonuria.)
I do wonder if actually being in such a phenylalanine-depleted state (which is then also a tyrosine-depleted, phenylethylamine-depleted, L-DOPA-depleted, dopamine-depleted, adrenaline-depleted, and norepinephrine-depleted state) has any long-term effects on the body, which might even be positive. Goodness knows it certainly makes you want to sleep for a week.
(Come to think of it, an interesting question would be whether people with phenylketonuria who grew up on a compensatory dietary-restriction regimen low in phenylalanine—thus causing such sustained deficiencies of all the above—have any physiological differences to people without phenylketonuria.)
Can you comment on whether chronic stress could be added to that list of factors contributing to phenylalanine depletion?
The wikipedia page for Tyrosine suggests yes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrosine#Medical_use
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrosine#Medical_use
Interesting point. Do you think straight phenylalanine supplementation is worthwhile? I've had a hard time figuring out if it is processed efficiently by the body when taken orally.
I've been taking cold showers for years, it gives such a good kick in the morning it's MUCH more efficient than coffee to get you from that lethargic state you can get in the morning to full-speed. Oh and if you had a heavy evening the night before, it's also a good way to remove the potential lingering headache you woke up with :-)
It does take a little willpower to get in, but the 'cold' effect lasts about a second; I no longer even have the unrestrained strong shiver I use to have due to the thermal shock.
Oh, and even in really cold water, I can stay there for quite a while, wash my hair etc. The sign that I've been there too long is when the top of my feet start to hurt a little.
Once you get out, metabolism is at full speed and you'll pretty quickly feel very, very warm (while staying outwardly cold for a while).
Only downside I know of is that I'll sometime feel too warm when I get in the office, as the metabolism goes overboard a bit.
My wife doesn't understand how I do it, she calls me 'glaconman' (french version of iceman) since I'm definitely not getting any cuddles for the next 20 minutes or so -- but well, it does work very well for me...
It does take a little willpower to get in, but the 'cold' effect lasts about a second; I no longer even have the unrestrained strong shiver I use to have due to the thermal shock.
Oh, and even in really cold water, I can stay there for quite a while, wash my hair etc. The sign that I've been there too long is when the top of my feet start to hurt a little.
Once you get out, metabolism is at full speed and you'll pretty quickly feel very, very warm (while staying outwardly cold for a while).
Only downside I know of is that I'll sometime feel too warm when I get in the office, as the metabolism goes overboard a bit.
My wife doesn't understand how I do it, she calls me 'glaconman' (french version of iceman) since I'm definitely not getting any cuddles for the next 20 minutes or so -- but well, it does work very well for me...
>Only downside I know of is that I'll sometime feel too warm when I get in the office, as the metabolism goes overboard a bit.
This and picking the right shampoos and soaps at the beginning. It's hard to them "foamy" in cold water, especially during winters when tap water gets even colder. My usual 10 min baths went to 20 with cold water simply because of it.
This and picking the right shampoos and soaps at the beginning. It's hard to them "foamy" in cold water, especially during winters when tap water gets even colder. My usual 10 min baths went to 20 with cold water simply because of it.
This is why I start my showers luke-warm and then go cold. My hair is medium-long and really thick and I just cant seem to make any progress washing it if the water is too cold.
You don't have to have cold showers everyday. I default to cold, and when grimy go for hot. You only really need to soap the places where the sun doesn't shine. And your hair doesn't need shampooing everyday. But each to their own.
Also of interest may be the Mammalian Diving Reflex (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammalian_diving_reflex) - Exposing your face to cold water and holding your breath can induce bradycardia (slowing of pulse), dropping it by 10-20 BPM.
In my experience, it leaves me with a sense of calm and general body-relaxation similar to how I feel 30-60 minutes after cardio workouts.
In my experience, it leaves me with a sense of calm and general body-relaxation similar to how I feel 30-60 minutes after cardio workouts.
Though I don't know how efficacious it is, it's listed as a treatment for acute episodes of specific kinds of tachycardia (like Wolf Parkinson white syndrome - http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/159222-overview#a1)
I listened to a podcast about free divers and how they use that reflex to get to amazing depths. Very interesting stuff.
If you can manage to keep calm long enough for bradycardia to set in.
I took a marine biology course in high school and we had an experiment to show braycardia that involved holding your breath and putting your face in a bowl of ice water. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't keep my body from panicking and pulling away.
I took a marine biology course in high school and we had an experiment to show braycardia that involved holding your breath and putting your face in a bowl of ice water. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't keep my body from panicking and pulling away.
This is the quintessential way to activate the Mammalian diving reflex at brunch, cocktail parties, the office, or the classroom. Unless you are inclined to panic, you and your more medically-minded friends will be fascinated by the significant and immediate effect it can induce on your PNS and heart rate.
The homepage of this website is currently encouraging "natural" correction of myopia via slightly incorrect prescription and intentional straining. Most of the evidence I'm aware of (see references in e.g. http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140513-do-glasses-weaken-y...) concludes that this makes things worse. My reaction to such things (especially when focussed on natural methods) tends to be distrusting objectivity.
Article is from 2014.
Also this guy thinks he has the solution to back pain and bad vision as well, so I would take all of his solutions with a "not verified by actual scientific studies" grain of salt.
Also this guy thinks he has the solution to back pain and bad vision as well, so I would take all of his solutions with a "not verified by actual scientific studies" grain of salt.
But I already bought his Cold Water Magic Beans®!
The "science" related with vision is pretty dogmatic and people aren't aware that glasses(minus) actually hurt your vision in the long run.
I think I found about the vision a few years back and then I made a bit more of research and then found this. Ebooks free to download as pdf on the website.
http://kaisuviikari.com/wordpress/en/
I think I found about the vision a few years back and then I made a bit more of research and then found this. Ebooks free to download as pdf on the website.
http://kaisuviikari.com/wordpress/en/
Interesting. The article reads a bit like bro-science but there are plenty of references to scientific studies... I'll be curious to see whether 'cold therapy' starts appearing as a buzz word in weight loss treatments.
It's already happening: http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpo...
Kevin Rose talks about cryotherapy. He's planning to release some PDF history of it.
I have been on cold showers for almost a year now. Can't imagine going back to warm showers, even in the dead of the winter.
The coldest shower I took was perhaps in Switzerland in December - I lasted for a couple of minutes or so in the shower. It was a fabulous experience nonetheless.
Why take a cold shower ? I was spending way too much time in hot showers, almost 20-30 minutes. Criminal waste of time and water.
Am not sure about the benefits, haven't noticed anything change in my body, but it's a great feeling to come out of an icy cold shower. Suddenly, the world feels warmer :)
I get very lazy in a hot shower, and just want to lap up as much heat as I can get. I'll happily stand there and keep nudging up the hot tap. My skin probably suffers a lot for it. Whereas a cold shower, I'm probably in and out in less than 5 mins.
Just make sure you don't catch deep sinus infection from having your head exposed to cold too much/often, like it happened to me (1+ year of cold showers). You don't want to be knocked out for a month.
I did catch an infection and was knocked out for a couple of weeks. Haven't had any issues after that. I'll watch out though. Thank you.
Cold showers remind me of my experience in a Japanese bathhouse in Kyoto. At first, the hot baths are way too hot and the cold bath is absolutely freezing. But, if you power through it, the results are amazing. The process of (rinse > hot bath > cold bath) repeated over and over again was incredibly calming.
It ended up being one of my favorite things about Japan, and I spent 2-3 hours there everyday during my week in Kyoto.
It ended up being one of my favorite things about Japan, and I spent 2-3 hours there everyday during my week in Kyoto.
I wrote about my experience with cold showers here before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8808859
490 days later, I'm still using cold water only. Except for ears: switched to using warm water when experienced some buzzing in one ear during last winter. I've upped my game by adding snow/ice baths during the winter. Since last autumn I have added daily HIIT - 10-15 mins of advanced body-weight exercises with 20 sec. rest intervals.
Now, how it affects my weight. Since the last time I wrote about it, I've actually begun to follow my weight numbers. Back at the time I was about 84kg. Cold showers alone, with some gym here and there didn't do much for weight: it went down to 83 sometimes, but bounced back to 84 later. Yet, I must say, I was well into the practice by that time, and few years before I could weight as high as 88 kgs. So, perhaps, cold showers did lower my weight somewhat without my notice. Adding HIIT gave a steady weight loss, albeit a slow one: three months into I lost only 2-3kgs. It is possible that HIIT burned more fat yet balanced weight by adding lean mass: some muscles are bigger now. Mind you, all that time weight was of no concern to me: followed it just out of curiosity. Last January though, my old trauma reminded about itself and I needed to lose weight. Since I was already doing most of the recommended stuff, I just cut on calories by completely removing sugar and keeping 12 hour window for eating. In one month I lost about 6kgs going to 76-77kgs and decided to keep it their by increasing calories. TL;DR: Cutting calories is the fastest way to lose weight, neither cold-showers, nor HIIT can compete with it in short term.
On the upside, both cold showers and HIIT are downright pleasure to do once you get addicted to them. I do HIIT after the work before evening meal, at about 5 - 6PM, follow it with a cold shower and feel full and energetic as if I've just waken up in the morning.
490 days later, I'm still using cold water only. Except for ears: switched to using warm water when experienced some buzzing in one ear during last winter. I've upped my game by adding snow/ice baths during the winter. Since last autumn I have added daily HIIT - 10-15 mins of advanced body-weight exercises with 20 sec. rest intervals.
Now, how it affects my weight. Since the last time I wrote about it, I've actually begun to follow my weight numbers. Back at the time I was about 84kg. Cold showers alone, with some gym here and there didn't do much for weight: it went down to 83 sometimes, but bounced back to 84 later. Yet, I must say, I was well into the practice by that time, and few years before I could weight as high as 88 kgs. So, perhaps, cold showers did lower my weight somewhat without my notice. Adding HIIT gave a steady weight loss, albeit a slow one: three months into I lost only 2-3kgs. It is possible that HIIT burned more fat yet balanced weight by adding lean mass: some muscles are bigger now. Mind you, all that time weight was of no concern to me: followed it just out of curiosity. Last January though, my old trauma reminded about itself and I needed to lose weight. Since I was already doing most of the recommended stuff, I just cut on calories by completely removing sugar and keeping 12 hour window for eating. In one month I lost about 6kgs going to 76-77kgs and decided to keep it their by increasing calories. TL;DR: Cutting calories is the fastest way to lose weight, neither cold-showers, nor HIIT can compete with it in short term.
On the upside, both cold showers and HIIT are downright pleasure to do once you get addicted to them. I do HIIT after the work before evening meal, at about 5 - 6PM, follow it with a cold shower and feel full and energetic as if I've just waken up in the morning.
I like cold showers, and hot ones. I can never have a shower hot enough though, and getting out always is chilling. Whereas once you get out a cold shower, you only feel warmer. Preferably you don't want to leave the cold for freezing. I swam in a mountain stream late autumn last year (in the UK). It was so icy entering the stream, I thought it was never going to happen. After a few attempts and acclimatisation I was happily immersed. A little sun on the skin afterwards left me totally re-energised and awake. So just stick with it if you want to give it a go. Much like a cold shower, it's initially shocking, but becomes pleasurable. The human body is quite odd!
I'm into my second year of extreme Scottish showers -- first 5 minutes as hot as I can stand (and keep turning it up as I get used to the temp) ... last 5 minutes as cold as it goes. I expect there are legitimate physical health benefits; however, for me, the main benefit is the challenge & discipline of it, of stepping out of the shower thinking that the hardest thing I'll do today may already be behind me.
I'm exclusively showering cold now for more than a year. If I recall correctly one of the reasons was a VICE documentary on Wim Hof - that quite impressed me - though after a while I came to the conclusion that he is mostly well marketed (by his son - who he refers to as the biggest asshole he knows - https://youtu.be/VaMjhwFE1Zw?t=1311) and that most claims are rather blown out of proportion.
For example his scientific research on suppressing immune response to an infection is sold as a medical revolution while it has absolutely no practical value - if you think about it - quite the opposite as an immune response is usually something rather useful.
Anyway - I think it is worth it for several obvious reasons:
- it's definitely very refreshing!
- it helps waking up a lot
- it is a simple way to train discipline
- it's less stressful to skin than hot water
- it's nice to know that I am not depending on hot water
For example his scientific research on suppressing immune response to an infection is sold as a medical revolution while it has absolutely no practical value - if you think about it - quite the opposite as an immune response is usually something rather useful.
Anyway - I think it is worth it for several obvious reasons:
- it's definitely very refreshing!
- it helps waking up a lot
- it is a simple way to train discipline
- it's less stressful to skin than hot water
- it's nice to know that I am not depending on hot water
I did it for over year. It's still uncomfortable as I remembered that I always need to mentally get ready. My upper arms, especially triceps, are the most painful, coldest body parts when showered in cold water. I'm not sure why. During winter, I literally had to jump up and down, screaming to withstand the absolutely torturing coldness for the first five seconds. It gets a little better after that. I couldn't never take cold shower too long before the freezing water penetrating the skin and shivering the bone. That's when I know it's time to finish and get out.
Water is colder in winter....
Best thing would be having a thermometer and showering with same temp water all year round.
Best thing would be having a thermometer and showering with same temp water all year round.
I started to shower cold (actually first warm, then cold, then "neutral") every day when I was 9. I'm 30 now, so 21 years of that :).
I almost never feel cold, when I do i'm sick or very tired.
I do martial arts and I gain muscles very very easily, so maybe that's because of that?
And all my blood values have always been in the optimal range, except cholesterol which is always a bit too high (runs in the family).
I almost never feel cold, when I do i'm sick or very tired.
I do martial arts and I gain muscles very very easily, so maybe that's because of that?
And all my blood values have always been in the optimal range, except cholesterol which is always a bit too high (runs in the family).
An alternative for people in colder climates: just wear less clothing day-to-day. I generally wear one layer fewer than people around me. It really doesn't take long for the body to acclimate to it to the point it's no longer uncomfortable.
I love my hot showers too much to give them up, so this seems preferable.
I love my hot showers too much to give them up, so this seems preferable.
I ran D1 track in college and our strength coach advised us to take cold showers before lifting as a way of warming up and calming down, but mostly calming down. He said it was a good idea before races too.
The guy was absolutely ripped so I'd believe what he says, and he usually backed it up with studies.
The guy was absolutely ripped so I'd believe what he says, and he usually backed it up with studies.
One word of caution: it's not a coach's own accomplishments or physique which are qualifications, but the results they promote among their athletes.
I've known horribly bad coaches with excellent physiques. And excellent ones who were quite literally paralysed.
I've known horribly bad coaches with excellent physiques. And excellent ones who were quite literally paralysed.
> The guy was absolutely ripped so I'd believe what he says,
Because there's no way he was on steroids, HGH, or EPO to get himself that way?
Because there's no way he was on steroids, HGH, or EPO to get himself that way?
There is a lot of controversy surrounding Irisin.
http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/?s=Irisin
Quotes Peter Attia? He isn't a researcher.
http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/?s=Irisin
Quotes Peter Attia? He isn't a researcher.
I would certainly take a lot of cold showers if I didn't have to be conscious during the shower.
How cold should be cold showers ?
Practically, you can't do anything else but use the cold water from the shower.
However, even in summer it is usually quite invigorating, even though it might be 15-20°C. It can be a good deal colder in winter though.
However, even in summer it is usually quite invigorating, even though it might be 15-20°C. It can be a good deal colder in winter though.
Please refrain from using abusive terms here on this forum.
That expression can indicate respect. That's how it appears to me in this context, not as abuse.
Profanity and abuse are two different things.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11617591 and marked it off-topic.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11617591 and marked it off-topic.
Oh good, it's the language police. What would this forum be, after all, without folks like you telling us what to say and how to say it!
Not sure what is that, but I guess it's okay for a male dominated forum to disrespect females and still think that no one should complain about it.
What makes you so sure anybody thought about the sex of the op? You seem like the sexist one here.
to the post below.
The term "mother" fucker, may not insinuate fucking ones mother to you - perhaps you are desensitised to it, but to others from different cultures, countries it can be more / less offensive.
If you think about certain words which are all but banned for some colours of society to say, they too used to be all prevalent and not thought of as a problem to say. Perhaps in 100 years from now, to suggest some one fucks their mother would be considered the same
The term "mother" fucker, may not insinuate fucking ones mother to you - perhaps you are desensitised to it, but to others from different cultures, countries it can be more / less offensive.
If you think about certain words which are all but banned for some colours of society to say, they too used to be all prevalent and not thought of as a problem to say. Perhaps in 100 years from now, to suggest some one fucks their mother would be considered the same
He didn't mean "crazy" literally.
Wow, get real rituch.
This comment breaks the HN guidelines, regardless of whether someone else was wrong. Please post civilly and substantively or not at all.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
Failing to see how my comment breaks these guidelines? I most certainly would say this face to face.
You "get real". Not everyone is from an English speaking country or can differentiate 'earthy banter' from sincerely offensive epithets online.
Offense is not an argument, nor is it rational; it is essentially a form of the "appeal to disgust" fallacy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom_of_repugnance
Where we get tripped up is in applying the Golden Rule, because everyone's Golden Rule is different, and different standards of "decency" (note: also not an argument, also irrational) exist, across time, space and culture.
So the question is, do we always act in such a way that anyone who could be "offended", wouldn't be? The problem there is that I could claim offense at anything (since it is irrational), nobody could disprove that I am offended, and thus use it to shut down arguments. For example, if we were discussing Jesus from a historical context, and I belonged to a religious sect that forbade discussion of Jesus in a non-Biblical context, I could justifiably claim offense, and those who kowtow to inoffense would have to comply (or most likely just take it elsewhere).
On the opposite end, if we allow anything offensive as long as someone (anyone) finds it inoffensive or valuable, we risk alienating a good portion of the readership. For example, an in-detail review of the particulars of a rape, or gory photographs of a murder scene.
I personally would prefer HN lean toward the latter, but that is because I have a thick skin and I realize that even me arguing for this does not rest on rational grounds, merely "consensual irrational" grounds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom_of_repugnance
Where we get tripped up is in applying the Golden Rule, because everyone's Golden Rule is different, and different standards of "decency" (note: also not an argument, also irrational) exist, across time, space and culture.
So the question is, do we always act in such a way that anyone who could be "offended", wouldn't be? The problem there is that I could claim offense at anything (since it is irrational), nobody could disprove that I am offended, and thus use it to shut down arguments. For example, if we were discussing Jesus from a historical context, and I belonged to a religious sect that forbade discussion of Jesus in a non-Biblical context, I could justifiably claim offense, and those who kowtow to inoffense would have to comply (or most likely just take it elsewhere).
On the opposite end, if we allow anything offensive as long as someone (anyone) finds it inoffensive or valuable, we risk alienating a good portion of the readership. For example, an in-detail review of the particulars of a rape, or gory photographs of a murder scene.
I personally would prefer HN lean toward the latter, but that is because I have a thick skin and I realize that even me arguing for this does not rest on rational grounds, merely "consensual irrational" grounds.
Which is why the default reaction shouldn't be offense
[deleted]
Who said the default reaction should be offence then? Who even said rituch was personally offended by it?
If someone doesn't recognize it as relatively harmless banter (which may be a matter of opinion anyway), then why would they not think it's inappropriate here, when this forum is known for being more civil than most, partly for the reason rituch gave?
The "default" should be to recognize that misunderstandings happen online, and to definitely not post a rude, redundant comment like "get real" to an already heavily downvoted post that two other people have already addressed.
Edit: Well, judging by the down and upvoting, it seems I'm in a minority, or a lot of 'free speech' warriors here don't understand the concept of private forums with rules, and think posts simply telling people to "get real" add to a discussion.
If someone doesn't recognize it as relatively harmless banter (which may be a matter of opinion anyway), then why would they not think it's inappropriate here, when this forum is known for being more civil than most, partly for the reason rituch gave?
The "default" should be to recognize that misunderstandings happen online, and to definitely not post a rude, redundant comment like "get real" to an already heavily downvoted post that two other people have already addressed.
Edit: Well, judging by the down and upvoting, it seems I'm in a minority, or a lot of 'free speech' warriors here don't understand the concept of private forums with rules, and think posts simply telling people to "get real" add to a discussion.
Ever more vigilance against the possibility of negative reactions is the way we got to so many negative reactions to begin with. There's no good future that comes from this way of living except more of what produced it.
Stop being wild, muttafuk, we are tryna chill n talk some good shit together
Stop being wild, muttafuk, we are tryna chill n talk some good shit together
How about he came out and said
"yo bitch, that's crazy" or "my nigga, that's insane"
These would be deemed unacceptable and rightly so.
"yo bitch, that's crazy" or "my nigga, that's insane"
These would be deemed unacceptable and rightly so.
I assume you mean AJRF. Just because those two examples are unacceptable doesn't mean "wow, get real" is acceptable. If you disagree or don't understand why someone said something, then either forget about it, or reply to it for clarification or discussion.
I mean why don't we all just post "get real" to everything or everyone we disagree with? Apparently a surprising number of people here can't think of a reason why not, since they think "get real" a fine response.
Edit: Actually, I think you mean if the "motherfucker" guy had said those things, in which case, I agree. People defending the use of "crazy motherfucker" may indeed be offended by the examples you gave, or feel they are inappropriate here, but can't seem to understand that terms they think are fine may be considered inappropriate to other people.
I mean why don't we all just post "get real" to everything or everyone we disagree with? Apparently a surprising number of people here can't think of a reason why not, since they think "get real" a fine response.
Edit: Actually, I think you mean if the "motherfucker" guy had said those things, in which case, I agree. People defending the use of "crazy motherfucker" may indeed be offended by the examples you gave, or feel they are inappropriate here, but can't seem to understand that terms they think are fine may be considered inappropriate to other people.
[deleted]
Wim Hof people Wim Hof
Wim Hof is an individual case study that has done research in this area, and other related phenomena (breathing and autonomous response control)[1]
Not sure it's any more or less "bro science" then this article, but it's interesting and relevant enough to be worth talking about here I think.
[1] https://www.radboudumc.nl/Research/Pages/PNASIceman.aspx
Not sure it's any more or less "bro science" then this article, but it's interesting and relevant enough to be worth talking about here I think.
[1] https://www.radboudumc.nl/Research/Pages/PNASIceman.aspx
I read his book and started practicing several months ago. The other week I played in the ocean for 20 minutes and it didn't bother me at all. Checked the water temperature afterwards and it was 56 degrees.
I haven't started with his breathing exercise, just practice, attitude, and knowing what to expect count for a lot.
I haven't started with his breathing exercise, just practice, attitude, and knowing what to expect count for a lot.
If fixing diet and exercise are number 1 and number 2 to being a happier human. I'd put fixing the person you're dating at number 3, the people you're friends with at number 4, and the temperatures of the showers you take at number 5. A+ / 5 star - would have my cofounder challenge me again.