Visual Studio Code repository is open again(github.com)
github.com
Visual Studio Code repository is open again
https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/87440
181 comments
On one hand it is a bit of a non issue but on the other hand it is kinda funny watching a corporation strugle with trying to please everyone.
My personal test for when it comes to offending people is if there was any malice. And if the person being offended is using being offended as a form of control.
My personal test for when it comes to offending people is if there was any malice. And if the person being offended is using being offended as a form of control.
This is so fucking sad...
Indeed it is but I am almost sure that this guy is a troll.
[deleted]
I agree because it is incongruent to target symbolism towards "Christmas" when every day of our week is a reference to Norse religions. So in this case we don't know if someone was offended by recognizing Christmas symbolism at all due to the Santa hat on the gear, or if someone that likes Christmas was offended because Santa's hat has nothing to do with their Christian God - we'll never know! But something like this happens every season leading into the end of the year, while other religious symbolism equally as prevalent in our society is completely ignored. This makes me lean towards not reacting to "random offended person" at all.
> "even a single person being offended is one too many"
false, in my book
> "even a single person being offended is one too many"
false, in my book
The original icon: https://disrn.com/news/santa-hat-on-visual-studio-code-icon-...
How on earth is that offensive? It's literally just a Santa hat on a cog...
How on earth is that offensive? It's literally just a Santa hat on a cog...
From your linked source:
> To me this is almost equally offensive as a swastika
Sigh.
> To me this is almost equally offensive as a swastika
Sigh.
Can we just start ignoring people whose sense of reality is so out of touch? I'm offended they took someone seriously with this BS. Millions dead versus a myth of someone delivering gifts, wtf?
I think some folks need to watch some Steve Hughes comedy on being offended.
I think some folks need to watch some Steve Hughes comedy on being offended.
DonHopkins(1)
Original ticket: https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/issues/87268
> "The Santa Hat on vscode insiders and pushing of religion is very offensive to me, additionally xmas has cost millions of Jews their lives over the centuries, yet even if that was not the case, pushing religious symbols as part of a product update is completely unacceptable," the user wrote. "Please remove it immediately and make it your top priority. To me this is almost equally offensive as a swastika."
Santa is about as non-religious as you can get. IMO, I think Microsoft really put their foot in their mouth on this one.
Edit: Because I can't let this go, it's important to point out that what we find offensive is subjective. I wonder if whoever wrote that is really just trolling Microsoft, or just has an axe to grind.
Santa is about as non-religious as you can get. IMO, I think Microsoft really put their foot in their mouth on this one.
Edit: Because I can't let this go, it's important to point out that what we find offensive is subjective. I wonder if whoever wrote that is really just trolling Microsoft, or just has an axe to grind.
I dont understand why the response
"Dear <user>, We apologize if you found the icon offensive. Please be assured that no offense was intended. Thank you for bringing up the issue so we could clear things up."
Was not a sufficient response and an end to the conversation? Leave the icon where it is. Now that the user knows that the icon wasn't meant as an offense, he can move on with his life.
If he finds the swastika offensive, he shouldn't visit India. Swastikas are everywhere. The context matters.
"Dear <user>, We apologize if you found the icon offensive. Please be assured that no offense was intended. Thank you for bringing up the issue so we could clear things up."
Was not a sufficient response and an end to the conversation? Leave the icon where it is. Now that the user knows that the icon wasn't meant as an offense, he can move on with his life.
If he finds the swastika offensive, he shouldn't visit India. Swastikas are everywhere. The context matters.
I find non-apology apologies offensive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology
>Saying "I'm sorry you feel that way" to someone who has been offended by a statement is a non-apology apology. It does not admit there was anything wrong with the remarks made, and may imply the person took offense for hypersensitive or irrational reasons. Another form of non-apology does not apologize directly to the injured or insulted party, but generically "to anyone who might have been offended".
>Ifpology: Attorney and business ethics expert Lauren Bloom, author of The Art of the Apology, mentions the "if apology" as a favorite of politicians, with lines such as "I apologize if I offended anyone". Comedian Harry Shearer has coined the term Ifpology for its frequent appearances on "The Apologies of the Week" segment of Le Show.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology
>Saying "I'm sorry you feel that way" to someone who has been offended by a statement is a non-apology apology. It does not admit there was anything wrong with the remarks made, and may imply the person took offense for hypersensitive or irrational reasons. Another form of non-apology does not apologize directly to the injured or insulted party, but generically "to anyone who might have been offended".
>Ifpology: Attorney and business ethics expert Lauren Bloom, author of The Art of the Apology, mentions the "if apology" as a favorite of politicians, with lines such as "I apologize if I offended anyone". Comedian Harry Shearer has coined the term Ifpology for its frequent appearances on "The Apologies of the Week" segment of Le Show.
I am sorry you find non-apology apologies offensive, but that is all we have to offer. We're sorry we couldn't do better. ;)
On a more serious note though. It is cool that there is a label for something like this, but to me it is just a polite way of de-escalation. You could be confrontational and say "I didn't do anything wrong, you're the one who is wrong to think what I did was wrong!" or you can say "I'm sorry you thought what I did was wrong, but my intention was not to wrong you or anyone.".
There is nothing wrong with being polite and tactful.
On a more serious note though. It is cool that there is a label for something like this, but to me it is just a polite way of de-escalation. You could be confrontational and say "I didn't do anything wrong, you're the one who is wrong to think what I did was wrong!" or you can say "I'm sorry you thought what I did was wrong, but my intention was not to wrong you or anyone.".
There is nothing wrong with being polite and tactful.
[deleted]
I think the person who posted this was a bit silly, but you can't be serious about Santa being non-religious, can you?
He's literally a saint in every form of Christianity that has saints.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
He's literally a saint in every form of Christianity that has saints.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
Though he was a saint the symbology has been non-religious for some time. It's not just Christians that celebrate with Santa. In fact, most of the non-religious people I know celebrate with Santa. Even when you tie it to a saint the overall meaning of Santa has nothing to do with God or Christians.
People like to be offended and will ruin things for other people. It's sad that we're in such a sensitive society but tolerance isn't what is practiced, sensitivity is.
As a Christian I find the idea of Santa offensive, honestly. Santa and his powers (as presented in media) are a replacement for God. I'm not going to go crying to anybody because they have Santa as an icon.
People like to be offended and will ruin things for other people. It's sad that we're in such a sensitive society but tolerance isn't what is practiced, sensitivity is.
As a Christian I find the idea of Santa offensive, honestly. Santa and his powers (as presented in media) are a replacement for God. I'm not going to go crying to anybody because they have Santa as an icon.
> the symbology has been non-religious for some time
In the US, sure. In many other countries the related symbology is still heavily linked to "Saint Nicholas", not "Santa Claus".
In the US, sure. In many other countries the related symbology is still heavily linked to "Saint Nicholas", not "Santa Claus".
The name doesn't make it religious though, it's the people that celebrate Christmas and their use of Saint Nicholas/Santa Claus/etc.
The red hat has nothing to do with Christianity though. It was created in the late 1800s and then popularised by Coca Cola in the 1930s. If the VS Code team had put a bishop's mitre on the update cog the complaint would be more reasonable.
The red hat is clearly associated with Christmas which is a Christian holiday. The complaint is silly, but we should not counter that by ridiculous claims like saying a Santa hat has nothing to do with Christmas. I think the red had originates from "Father Christmas" rather than Sct Nicolaus, but in any case it is clearly associated with Christmas.
Saint Nicholas is hardly the same as "Santa", which has his own wikipedia page [1]. Modern day Santa has some partial roots in Saint Nicholas (as well as a few other figures), but other than the sometimes-used moniker of "Saint Nick", has very little to do with the actual saint. Santa is the one associated with the red hat, while Saint Nicholas has no such association. The only real link between the two is that Saint Nicholas was known for gift-giving and so is Santa, but I hope we aren't about to label gift-giving as a religious activity...
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus
I'm not sure it makes sense to ask if Santa Claus is "the same" as Saint Nicholas. It is a mythic figure which have developed over time. It is like asking if Dracula is "the same" as Vlad Tepes.
Are you sure Santa and Saint Nicholas are the same? In Germany we celebrate Saint Nicholas on December 6th, while Santa brings presents on December 24th (Christmas Eve).
The modern mythos of Santa is based on Saint Nicholas:
https://www.history.com/topics/christmas/santa-claus
https://www.history.com/topics/christmas/santa-claus
Yes it is the same. Santa Claus comes from Sinterklaas which is Dutch for Saint Nicholas.
Saint Nicholas, the bishop who lived in ancient Greece, is a saint, venerated in every form of Christianity that has saints.
I don't think that Santa Claus, the mythological person who lives at the North Pole and has elves to make toys, is venerated by any Christian denomination.
I don't think that Santa Claus, the mythological person who lives at the North Pole and has elves to make toys, is venerated by any Christian denomination.
Protestants in Germany introduced the tradition of "Kristkind" (Baby Jesus) bringing gifts at Christmas because the tradition of Saint Nicholas was problematic for protestants.
Was that the tradition of St Nicholas, the saint, or "Saint Nicholas"/Kris Kringle/Father Christmas = Santa Claus, the cookie-eating guy with a red hat thatdeveloped mostly after the 18th century?
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking - are you considering St Nicolas and "Saint Nicholas" two unrelated figures? Obviously the figure developed over time.
Santa drives around in a grossly polluting truck delivering obesity-water to children. He's a monster, not a saint.
And it's powered by high-sulphur diesel made from fermented reindeers and children's tears. ;)
Don't forget getting children drunk on rum eggnog made from molested cows and unfertilized dinosaur descendant's ovums.
Don't forget getting children drunk on rum eggnog made from molested cows and unfertilized dinosaur descendant's ovums.
> Santa is about as non-religious as you can get.
Of course he's religious, it's a mascot for a Christian holiday. Don't confuse American commercialism's exploitation of Christmas & Santa with its religious roots.
Of course he's religious, it's a mascot for a Christian holiday. Don't confuse American commercialism's exploitation of Christmas & Santa with its religious roots.
But St. Nicholas et al. did not start with Christianity - isn't the myth of 'Santa' an amalgam of all kinds of different pagan cultures and traditions? It seems like the whole 'Christmas' holiday is mostly an artifact of the church trying to tie together wide and diverse groups of people under their umbrella.
I guess you could use a snowflake or a cornucopia or something as a generic 'winter holiday' thing, and people have been doing that for awhile; "Happy Holidays" usurped "Merry Christmas" decades ago. Or you could use a bevy of emojis representing the holiday's secular roots, but would it have been better if they added emojis for St. Nick's mythological companions like Belshnickel, Zwarte Pete, and Krampus next to the santa hat? Maybe if they really wanted to polish this essential feature for production use, they could have different emoji sets for different holidays and a modal to choose which one you wanted.
I dunno, I feel so bad for people who haven't had the drive to do anything fun or playful beaten out of them yet. "Cry, the beloved country, for the unborn child that's the inheritor of our fear."
I guess you could use a snowflake or a cornucopia or something as a generic 'winter holiday' thing, and people have been doing that for awhile; "Happy Holidays" usurped "Merry Christmas" decades ago. Or you could use a bevy of emojis representing the holiday's secular roots, but would it have been better if they added emojis for St. Nick's mythological companions like Belshnickel, Zwarte Pete, and Krampus next to the santa hat? Maybe if they really wanted to polish this essential feature for production use, they could have different emoji sets for different holidays and a modal to choose which one you wanted.
I dunno, I feel so bad for people who haven't had the drive to do anything fun or playful beaten out of them yet. "Cry, the beloved country, for the unborn child that's the inheritor of our fear."
> "Happy Holidays" usurped "Merry Christmas" decades ago.
There are people who find "Happy Holidays" offensive, as they consider it part of the manufactured war on Christmas.
I guess this is why politics and holidays don't mix!
There are people who find "Happy Holidays" offensive, as they consider it part of the manufactured war on Christmas.
I guess this is why politics and holidays don't mix!
Christmas's roots are from pagan traditions around the new year's. They were christianized for many reasons.
Gift giving around the end of the year has been around since before 0 BC.
(And before someone screams "citation needed," I'll just say that it's well known, and if you didn't know it by now, there's a thing called Google and Wikipedia that you can go look at.)
Gift giving around the end of the year has been around since before 0 BC.
(And before someone screams "citation needed," I'll just say that it's well known, and if you didn't know it by now, there's a thing called Google and Wikipedia that you can go look at.)
> (And before someone screams "citation needed," I'll just say that it's well known, and if you didn't know it by now, there's a thing called Google and Wikipedia that you can go look at.)
Lots of beliefs are "well known" and nevertheless wrong. Just look at all the people, even in this thread, claiming that Santa Claus was invented by Coca Cola, even though a simple google image search will reveal illustrations of Santa from before Coco Cola was founded. As for the pagan traditions around new years they are not very well documented and a lot is speculation.
Of course gift-giving is known throughout history, but the figure of Santa Claus is associated with the Christian celebration. I'm pretty sure you wont find any reference to Santa Claus or Father Christmas from before Christianity!
Lots of beliefs are "well known" and nevertheless wrong. Just look at all the people, even in this thread, claiming that Santa Claus was invented by Coca Cola, even though a simple google image search will reveal illustrations of Santa from before Coco Cola was founded. As for the pagan traditions around new years they are not very well documented and a lot is speculation.
Of course gift-giving is known throughout history, but the figure of Santa Claus is associated with the Christian celebration. I'm pretty sure you wont find any reference to Santa Claus or Father Christmas from before Christianity!
> Christmas's roots are from pagan traditions
So? Most religious traditions were stolen, whoop de do. What matters is how they're practiced in 2019, in which case Christmas is almost synonymous with Christianity.
> I'll just say that it's well known
There is no actual confidence in how all of this stuff came to be, just a lot of conjecture - and so no, it's not well known at all.
So? Most religious traditions were stolen, whoop de do. What matters is how they're practiced in 2019, in which case Christmas is almost synonymous with Christianity.
> I'll just say that it's well known
There is no actual confidence in how all of this stuff came to be, just a lot of conjecture - and so no, it's not well known at all.
It seems contradictory for you to say in your previous comment that Christmas as practiced in 2019 by Americans doesn't matter when discussing Santa because of the religious roots, and then follow that up by saying the history of the religious roots don't matter because they're practiced differently in 2019.
Take a look at the comments in this thread about how non-christians observe Christmas.
Christianity has no monopoly on Christmas.
Christianity has no monopoly on Christmas.
Except they practice gift-giving without any of the rest that comes along with - that's not Christmas, that's commercial exploitation. Big difference.
They call it Christmas though. So it is not your version of Christmas but theirs. Also you can't be certain it is commercial exploitation. What if some you are referring to give mostly homemade and charitable gifts. Certainly would be the minority but you are lumping a lot of people together.
It's a holiday widely celebrated by non-Christians. People mostly care about the gift giving bit, alcohol, and food, rather than any religious angle.
You see similar things going on for Valentine's day, Easter, Saint Patricks day, etc. Sure, there is a religious aspect, but the non-religious celebration is dominant.
You see similar things going on for Valentine's day, Easter, Saint Patricks day, etc. Sure, there is a religious aspect, but the non-religious celebration is dominant.
I work on a globally-distributed team.
My colleagues in India had a Christmas celebrations in their office. I asked them if they celebrated it growing up, and they told me they first started celebrating it in University.
We have Diwali parties in our US office. Everyone has fun.
My colleagues in India had a Christmas celebrations in their office. I asked them if they celebrated it growing up, and they told me they first started celebrating it in University.
We have Diwali parties in our US office. Everyone has fun.
Modern Santa was invented by Coca Cola based very loosely on St Nicholas. In American Gods he'd be the God of Capitalism I guess.
As a symbol of American capitalism it's rather fitting that Microsoft are using him.
St Nicholas (sinterklaas) is celebrated in The Netherlands on 6th of December. You may remember it from The Daily Show and other US TV outlets who were covering the archaic tradition of black face in the celebrations.
As a symbol of American capitalism it's rather fitting that Microsoft are using him.
St Nicholas (sinterklaas) is celebrated in The Netherlands on 6th of December. You may remember it from The Daily Show and other US TV outlets who were covering the archaic tradition of black face in the celebrations.
It is a myth that Coca Cola invented Santa Claus. He was a well-known figure in the US before Coca Cola stated using him.
My IMO is that if you're getting heat from users over the equivalent of an easter egg it doesn't really matter whether they're trolls or not, it's much easier to just remove or tone down the egg to make the problem go away. Having arguments about it is a waste of energy. Yes, it's kind of depressing or frustrating, but this is the nature of online discourse in 201x.
Whether or not the complaint is genuine is also much harder to figure out than "is it sufficient to replace this with a snowflake"
Whether or not the complaint is genuine is also much harder to figure out than "is it sufficient to replace this with a snowflake"
It's entirely unnecessary to make the problem (Santa hat) go away.
The complaining person is displaying abusive behavior and should be treated as such. Warn them. Then ban them if they persist. You stand up to bullies or you drown in them.
Mods can trivially and entirely disregard the non-problem (as it actually is). They're choosing not to and are making a community handling mistake in the process.
The only proper response is to ignore the complaint as not meaningful enough to warrant action. Otherwise you'll eventually have to remove every possible symbol. Somewhere, someone's mother was murdered by a cog and they feel very, very sensitive about the matter.
Abusive behavior in communities occurs at both extremes. You can be too sensitive in social situations in fact, to such a degree that you abuse other people with your need to control your environment specifically to your aggressively selfish satisfaction.
The complaining person is displaying abusive behavior and should be treated as such. Warn them. Then ban them if they persist. You stand up to bullies or you drown in them.
Mods can trivially and entirely disregard the non-problem (as it actually is). They're choosing not to and are making a community handling mistake in the process.
The only proper response is to ignore the complaint as not meaningful enough to warrant action. Otherwise you'll eventually have to remove every possible symbol. Somewhere, someone's mother was murdered by a cog and they feel very, very sensitive about the matter.
Abusive behavior in communities occurs at both extremes. You can be too sensitive in social situations in fact, to such a degree that you abuse other people with your need to control your environment specifically to your aggressively selfish satisfaction.
It would've been far easier to just ignore it. As the old saying goes, "don't feed the trolls".
It amuses me that it is an 'Easter egg' another similarly confusing conflation of a Christian holiday with the commercialization of that holiday.
[deleted]
[deleted]
>xmas has cost millions of Jews their lives over the centuries
Can someone fill me in on what this is referring to. I know my history knowledge is a bit lacking but I normally am able to get references like this so I must have missed something.
Can someone fill me in on what this is referring to. I know my history knowledge is a bit lacking but I normally am able to get references like this so I must have missed something.
buckminster(1)
This was an obvious troll. Looks like they succeeded. A shame.
Right? Clearly riffing on the 'happy holidays' message. I think it's a pretty funny post, and it's even more funny that it was taken seriously.
Someone could go stalk their account to check, I can't be bothered with that right now.
Someone could go stalk their account to check, I can't be bothered with that right now.
They guy hasn't actually created much, though the account is fairly old. Most of the repos are forks of others with no changes. It looks like a real person, but his name is Christian, which is not a likely name for a Jew. His repos got brigaded and he claimed his grandfather fought for the Germans on the Eastern front after "kick[ing] some Gestapo ass" [0]. This part is obviously malarkey, and convinces me he's a troll.
[0] https://github.com/Christian-Schiffer/servicelayer.chat/issu...
[0] https://github.com/Christian-Schiffer/servicelayer.chat/issu...
It looks like a real person
Appearances can be deceiving... even the profile photo could be generated and not a picture of a real human, as this other item currently prominently on the front page reveals:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21847051
Appearances can be deceiving... even the profile photo could be generated and not a picture of a real human, as this other item currently prominently on the front page reveals:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21847051
No need for all that effort. The profile photo was just lifted from somewhere else; see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21847902.
I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian and I am offended by Santa, which has nothing to do Christianity and it's nothing but a blatant display of overconsumption, wastefulness, not to mention the environmental impact of all this, which, against, goes well against Christianity, modesty, and actually conflicts with the Nativity Fast. Will I file an issue? No, never. It's childish, it's silly, it's not something an engineer should ever do. By the way, I'm offended by the plastic eggs and bunnies around Easter as well. None of these holidays are religious and here in Orange County, Southern California, I see many Muslims and Jews decorating their houses with the pseudo-Christian symbols as well. Every act will affect at least one person - I expected Microsoft to think about this starting this tradition and ending it. You can't make everybody happy, period!
I disagree with you. What's childish about filing an issue with something that offends you?
> it's not something an engineer should ever do.
But what if it wasn't Santa but it was like a different religious icon - like a menorah? I feel like literally thousands of American christians would have banned using VSCode or even Microsoft products for something like that.
> it's not something an engineer should ever do.
But what if it wasn't Santa but it was like a different religious icon - like a menorah? I feel like literally thousands of American christians would have banned using VSCode or even Microsoft products for something like that.
You know what's even better? Not getting offended. Let people do what they want. And specifically for vscode, it's a button that makes the editor snow. Just enjoy it. Or don't. But definitely don't make it worsr for anyone else. Lot's of other apps do similar things. Lot's of people decorate. I hope no one goes around reporting apps and people for what they put on display.
But what if I am offended that somebody finds my beliefs offensive?! I am not offended by other religions in any way whatsoever - I respect their rights as much as I want them to respect mine. The whole America is decorated for Hellowing, Christmas, and Easter - VS Code is people's least problem! And, as I stated, I can feel totally offended, but I'm not. I feel offended by Helloween, which all liberals celebrate, although it's has Roman-Catholic origins, it's against Christianity's principles, it has a huge environmental impact, and it greatly disturbs me personally, but I honor the rights of others to enjoy it. Should I be offended by nowadays Germans because in the past they killed my ancestors? Please, grow up! History is to learn from it, not to avenge for things way back in the past. Enough snowflakes among the engineers! I can't forget that master-slave "offensiveness" still!
It's childish because:
A) It ignores entirely the modern day usage of the Santa hat (it is not really a religious symbol, it is more like a general holiday symbol)
B) Even if it were, say, a menorah, it could mean that the developers are Jewish. Why would someone of a different religion celebrating the holidays offend you? That would imply to me that you're intolerant of other religions.
C) It was obviously not placed there with bad intentions. It is clearly intended to be festive and fun.
D) It is a waste of developer resources to remove something they just added in.
E) It devalues issues that people with genuine offenses might raise in the future, i.e. the boy who cried wolf.
A) It ignores entirely the modern day usage of the Santa hat (it is not really a religious symbol, it is more like a general holiday symbol)
B) Even if it were, say, a menorah, it could mean that the developers are Jewish. Why would someone of a different religion celebrating the holidays offend you? That would imply to me that you're intolerant of other religions.
C) It was obviously not placed there with bad intentions. It is clearly intended to be festive and fun.
D) It is a waste of developer resources to remove something they just added in.
E) It devalues issues that people with genuine offenses might raise in the future, i.e. the boy who cried wolf.
Even if it were, say, a menorah, it could mean that the developers are Jewish.
That reminds me of another "cultural artifact in software" with an interesting backstory --- T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM.
That reminds me of another "cultural artifact in software" with an interesting backstory --- T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM.
> Santa is about as non-religious as you can get.
Not really, see https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2018/12/131219-santa... and https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/51928?lang=bi for very different perspectives.
Not really, see https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2018/12/131219-santa... and https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/51928?lang=bi for very different perspectives.
> "Please remove it immediately and make it your top priority. To me this is almost equally offensive as a swastika."
I don't know about their part of the world, but this person would not make it 1 meter through a shopping mall in Europe from November to January. Swa... Santas everywhere!
I don't know about their part of the world, but this person would not make it 1 meter through a shopping mall in Europe from November to January. Swa... Santas everywhere!
Also he appears to be someone that doesn't know the difference between what people wearing red bobble-hats have done compared to people wearing swastikas.
[deleted]
Equally, the swastika is a common religious symbol in East Asia.
Didn't know that India and Pakistan are East Asia. Always thought East Asia would be Japan Korea and the likes
They're not, but swastikas are common as a religious symbol all over South and East Asia, and go back all the way to Mesopotamia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Historical_use
I don't see anything about East Asia. Tibet is literally besides Pakistan and India
This is a very professional and level headed response by the VS Code team. I hope people reference this in the future to learn how to handle and respond openly to divisive issues.
This is not a divisive issue, the account that raised the issue is most likely fake, the person behind it intended to trigger and divide people and they succeeded at that. The world is no paradise, you will never satisfy everyone nor should you try to. Microsoft's response is cringeworthy.
By us being here, that so many people objected to the removal of an easter egg in a developer channel release, to me, indicates there is a serious schism. I expect people are using this as a proxy for concerns about PC culture and "the war on christmas". This written description of what happened, and how the team is handling what happened going forward is transparent and respectful, that is what I am attempting to comment on.
You're being downvoted, but I agree that Microsoft did the best they possibly could have in this situation: getting the off-topic (and potentially offensive on their own) threads and comments on the issue tracker out of view, making the Santa hat a configurable choice, and still maintaining a decent standard of transparency.
I would personally love to add a response along the lines of "professional yes, but they should have..." regarding their stance, but no - you are right.
This is an exceptionally professional response and the discussion regarding PC, wokeness etc belongs elsewhere.
This is an exceptionally professional response and the discussion regarding PC, wokeness etc belongs elsewhere.
This is a professional reaction to a shitty situation they created mostly themselves.
The proper even more professional thing to do would have been to not react to the initial troll in the first place.
The proper even more professional thing to do would have been to not react to the initial troll in the first place.
I disagree. This wasn't a divisive issue, this was ONE troll who raised an issue. MSFT should have simply said "No" to this troll.
It's also worth mentioning that the original issue violated Code of Conduct as well, but for some reason MSFT only applied the Code to posts following it.
It's also worth mentioning that the original issue violated Code of Conduct as well, but for some reason MSFT only applied the Code to posts following it.
> we reverted the gear to something (hopefully) less controversial (a snowflake)
A snowflake for all the offended snowflakes - how fitting.
A snowflake for all the offended snowflakes - how fitting.
This snowflake abortion is more offensive than the last! My grandfather died in the great blizzard of '78!
Now I'm sure they put that snowflake there for that exact reason. Brilliant.
It seems Santa struck back the original issue author: https://github.com/Christian-Schiffer/servicelayer.chat/issu...
Not just on GitHub. Christian wrote up a huge response to the issue spam here: https://github.com/Christian-Schiffer/SignalRAngularMVC6/iss...
Basically sounds like his entire online presence is being roasted by 4chan.
Basically sounds like his entire online presence is being roasted by 4chan.
>One would think that developers at the very least would have some deductive reasoning, so using the n and k word against me, when my profile picture and name clearly show I am neither
I don't think this person understands that part of the internet...
I don't think this person understands that part of the internet...
That's incredibly lame
Definitely not surprising that he is now being trolled in the same way. As the saying goes, "live by sword, die by the sword".
Github should ban all these accounts and try to track the real accounts for the fakes to ban these too. These intolerant people should not have the right to use this service.
> even a single person being offended is one too many
Seriously?? Take a stand against extremists, that's what I say. If you cave to the demands of individual offended people, prepare to waste a lot of time catering to trolls...
Seriously?? Take a stand against extremists, that's what I say. If you cave to the demands of individual offended people, prepare to waste a lot of time catering to trolls...
How bland and boring would this world become if we applied this opinion to everything?
If they had balls they would tell that user to STFU and go so something useful. If you worry about such things and oppress others by pushing your feelings like a spoiled child, you have way too much time on your hands...
A lot of people are piling on the original complainant for a ridiculous complaint, and rightly so. But they are not the only offender here, and arguably not even the worst one:
> To adhere to our values and the Code of Conduct, we had to delete a handful of comments, which is unfortunate but not uncommon. Our responses triggered more responses. Bots were being employed to create issues and comments. Temporary accounts were being created to spam the system. Offensive issues were being created. The repository was filling up with issues which, frankly, were uncalled for, and we needed to do something, fast.
Every person who felt the need to comment and create github issues (and even write spam bots to do so!) about a santa hat being removed is not a person that should be trusted with any sort of responsibility or employment in the software industry. The absolutely staggering lack of maturity here boggles the mind.
This is not how sane adults should act. On either side.
> To adhere to our values and the Code of Conduct, we had to delete a handful of comments, which is unfortunate but not uncommon. Our responses triggered more responses. Bots were being employed to create issues and comments. Temporary accounts were being created to spam the system. Offensive issues were being created. The repository was filling up with issues which, frankly, were uncalled for, and we needed to do something, fast.
Every person who felt the need to comment and create github issues (and even write spam bots to do so!) about a santa hat being removed is not a person that should be trusted with any sort of responsibility or employment in the software industry. The absolutely staggering lack of maturity here boggles the mind.
This is not how sane adults should act. On either side.
>or employment in the software industry.
For commenting to point out contradictory standards on what is considered offensive enough to remove? Really?
Edit: One satirical (per my own assumption) comment I read was complaining about calling the main branch master. The idea that using terminology such as master is offensive to some people seems at least as plausible as the santa hat being plausible. Perhaps more so as there have already been some discussion about the use of the term master in tech lingo. That is the kind of comment I'm thinking of, but want to be sure we are thinking of the same ones.
For commenting to point out contradictory standards on what is considered offensive enough to remove? Really?
Edit: One satirical (per my own assumption) comment I read was complaining about calling the main branch master. The idea that using terminology such as master is offensive to some people seems at least as plausible as the santa hat being plausible. Perhaps more so as there have already been some discussion about the use of the term master in tech lingo. That is the kind of comment I'm thinking of, but want to be sure we are thinking of the same ones.
It's harsh language, but honestly: yes. Microsoft had to lock down the repository because it was being flooded with comments like this. For removing a santa hat.
I saw this story about it being removed as well, and I thought to myself "well, that's pretty silly, but whatever" and then five seconds later I had moved on with my life. The very idea that an grown person could be so upset about it that they would actually expend the mental energy to go to the github issues page and voice their opinion with an angry comment is mind-boggling to me. It is, in my opinion, an even more absurd reaction than the original complaint.
I saw this story about it being removed as well, and I thought to myself "well, that's pretty silly, but whatever" and then five seconds later I had moved on with my life. The very idea that an grown person could be so upset about it that they would actually expend the mental energy to go to the github issues page and voice their opinion with an angry comment is mind-boggling to me. It is, in my opinion, an even more absurd reaction than the original complaint.
This is very meta.
You've commented twice on the incident now.
You've commented twice on the incident now.
[deleted]
A sudden barrage of comments, including racist ones, smells like a chan op. Possibly including the original issue.
That was exactly my thought. The pattern of taking exaggerated but vaguely plausible offense to something, and then using any response (positive or negative) to that as an excuse to be hateful, is one that's repeated itself before.
We don't know about the original issue, but it did get some attention in chan circles.
> Every person who felt the need to comment and create github issues (and even write spam bots to do so!) about a santa hat being removed is not a person that should be trusted with any sort of responsibility or employment in the software industry.
They should be punished, shouldn't they? Put to jail?
They should be punished, shouldn't they? Put to jail?
It's the extremes that caused this. Putting to jail, or calling for it, is just another one. They all acted poorly. That being called out is of itself the condemnation. Answers or responses don't have to be dialed to 10 to be valid.
God, imagine being this utterly boring.
Microsoft went full-blown Seinfeld with this. Let's just do Festivus then!
As a resident of the Southern Hemisphere, I am offended by the use of a snowflake. 43 degrees Celcius here yesterday...
I believe this was blown way out of proportion, but I am uncertain how else the visual studio code team should've responded.
Where do you draw the line?
Was there a way to politely respond to this person without kowtowing to them?
Maybe by adding an option to disable the santa hat, where it's on by default, but you can turn it off?
Google has been sprucing up their search page for years now; Many a santa hat has been present, and people were both annoyed and happy, and also apathetic. Would Google have responded similarly, if some random person had a pipeline right to their developers?
It feels like even though some random person with a complaint got his wish, everyone else lost something. Like the ability to put something fun in your software without being overly concerned about offending one person.
Where do you draw the line?
Was there a way to politely respond to this person without kowtowing to them?
Maybe by adding an option to disable the santa hat, where it's on by default, but you can turn it off?
Google has been sprucing up their search page for years now; Many a santa hat has been present, and people were both annoyed and happy, and also apathetic. Would Google have responded similarly, if some random person had a pipeline right to their developers?
It feels like even though some random person with a complaint got his wish, everyone else lost something. Like the ability to put something fun in your software without being overly concerned about offending one person.
A quick search of Google Doodles that included santa:
* https://www.google.com/doodles/happy-holidays-2011
* https://www.google.com/doodles/holidays-2018-northern-hemisp...
* https://www.google.com/doodles/holidays-2018-northern-hemisp...
* https://www.google.com/doodles/holidays-2018-northern-hemisp...
* https://www.google.com/doodles/holidays-2018-southern-hemisp...
* https://www.google.com/doodles/happy-holidays-2011
* https://www.google.com/doodles/holidays-2018-northern-hemisp...
* https://www.google.com/doodles/holidays-2018-northern-hemisp...
* https://www.google.com/doodles/holidays-2018-northern-hemisp...
* https://www.google.com/doodles/holidays-2018-southern-hemisp...
> I am uncertain how else the visual studio code team should've responded
They should have responded "No" to the crazy person who equated a santa claus hat to a swastika.
They should have responded "No" to the crazy person who equated a santa claus hat to a swastika.
>Maybe by adding an option to disable the santa hat, where it's on by default, but you can turn it off?
This honestly would have been the best solution, I'm Muslim and I'd like to switch it off but I'm not going to go out of my way to complain about someone else's program that I have voluntarily placed on my computer when it's clearly a valuable part of people's traditions and I can patch it myself.
This honestly would have been the best solution, I'm Muslim and I'd like to switch it off but I'm not going to go out of my way to complain about someone else's program that I have voluntarily placed on my computer when it's clearly a valuable part of people's traditions and I can patch it myself.
> even a single person being offended is one too many
That's a disappointingly defeatist philosophy. I really like VS Code and this won't change that, but it's a shame that they let a single crazy person destroy what was a nice gesture for the vast, vast majority of their users.
That's a disappointingly defeatist philosophy. I really like VS Code and this won't change that, but it's a shame that they let a single crazy person destroy what was a nice gesture for the vast, vast majority of their users.
Now the VS community knows how to get new features added to the product. Simly say "I'm offended that you are not adding this feature" and they will promptly add it, as not to "offend".
Slippery slope, VS team.
Slippery slope, VS team.
Chap seems to be a troll, in all probability as Christian as his name.
That is, Christian in name only, and actually interested in leveraging woke / victimhood culture and microaggressions to generate a political reaction.
That is, Christian in name only, and actually interested in leveraging woke / victimhood culture and microaggressions to generate a political reaction.
He probably could have been equally as effective by saying "hey, let's make this icon more generic so it's more inclusive" and ended it at that.
I don't think he is wrong in his request, but the necessity people feel to say "This offends me" over just using other more concrete rationale is what causes these kinds of incidents.
We need to learn to use less divisive and accusatory language when making requests like this.
We need to learn to use less divisive and accusatory language when making requests like this.
[deleted]
> even a single person being offended is one too many
I am offended by snowflakes. Go find something more inclusive, you insensitive clod!
I am offended by snowflakes. Go find something more inclusive, you insensitive clod!
The paradox of tolerance [1] is a PITA. At the end of the day a santa hat is no big deal, but by the logic of "even a single person being offended is one too many", taken to the extreme, all that is left is the lowest common denominator of what all humans tolerate (if there is such a thing).
On a more practical note, I find it hard to reason on how deal with issues like this. It's like if you try to be level headed, avoid conflict, and try to see things from the other side you already lost, because there is no corresponding empathy coming from the other side. The only solution is to give in, or deal with an offended internet mob.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
On a more practical note, I find it hard to reason on how deal with issues like this. It's like if you try to be level headed, avoid conflict, and try to see things from the other side you already lost, because there is no corresponding empathy coming from the other side. The only solution is to give in, or deal with an offended internet mob.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Why is someone being offended such a big deal nowadays? It seems everyone is always trying to make sure no one can ever be the slightest bit offended. Doesn’t necessarily feel like the most important metric we should be optimizing for as a society.
It's the PC (politically correct) movement. PC definitely needed a lot of push in 2000. It has certainly helped correct a lot of language problems, problems that either reinforce stereotypes, gender and/or sexual orientation issues. Indeed it is part of the reason people stopped saying Japs or the N. word or fat person.
The reality is that if you were one of the people that is sidelined, you would feel it too. It's part of the reason we need to keep at it.
So while PC'ism may have changed your companies end-of-year greeting cards from "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year" to "Happy Holidays and Happy New Year", or even just "Season's Greetings", you can probably imagine that's helped 10 to 20 percent of the workforce (that are likely atheist, agnostic, jewish or muslim or whatever feel more included in the greeting.
The reality is that if you were one of the people that is sidelined, you would feel it too. It's part of the reason we need to keep at it.
So while PC'ism may have changed your companies end-of-year greeting cards from "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year" to "Happy Holidays and Happy New Year", or even just "Season's Greetings", you can probably imagine that's helped 10 to 20 percent of the workforce (that are likely atheist, agnostic, jewish or muslim or whatever feel more included in the greeting.
This is nothing new though. Look at things like the Hayes Code or the Comics Code. It is business as usual trying not to offend or alienate important demographics. But as values and power structures change, the feeling you have to accommodate change.
If you feel like this is getting worse compared to those times, it might be because you belong to a demographic which is losing cultural power.
If you feel like this is getting worse compared to those times, it might be because you belong to a demographic which is losing cultural power.
I think the answer should be “we hear your complaint and we will listen closely to hear if others feel the same way and act accordingly. We will also weigh your feedback when deciding what to do for next holiday season. In the meantime if you find it offensive we suggest you turn it off or use a version that doesn’t have it”.
There are so many dimensions to this. No one is forced to sit and watch it. It’s not front and center in the community forums (making the community itself exclusive) and so on.
One person being hurt is one too many, but one person being offended for what the absolute majority probably have decided is for the sake of being offended can’t be the cause of this.
We have come a long way when it comes to having more inclusive communities especially for miniorities. I‘m sure there are trans people in OSS now that wouldn’t have felt welcome ten years ago. I just fail to see the parallel and believe there is a minority somewhere longing to get into online communities but that don’t feel welcome because of Santa hats?
There are so many dimensions to this. No one is forced to sit and watch it. It’s not front and center in the community forums (making the community itself exclusive) and so on.
One person being hurt is one too many, but one person being offended for what the absolute majority probably have decided is for the sake of being offended can’t be the cause of this.
We have come a long way when it comes to having more inclusive communities especially for miniorities. I‘m sure there are trans people in OSS now that wouldn’t have felt welcome ten years ago. I just fail to see the parallel and believe there is a minority somewhere longing to get into online communities but that don’t feel welcome because of Santa hats?
Christmas is not a Christian holiday. Christianity is young.
The symbols and traditions surrounding the midwinter feasts (Yule etc) go back way longer. It’s not even called Christmas or anything with “Christ” e.g in Scandinavia. Because no way we’d let the church change also the name. No sir.
The church just had to adopt the festive period. Santa Claus is an even later addition.
And famously the red Santa is thanks to Coca Cola.
So basically the red Santa hat is a symbol that Coca Cola put on top a legend of a saint that was in turn adopted onto pagan winter rites. It’s not exactly bibles all over it.
The symbols and traditions surrounding the midwinter feasts (Yule etc) go back way longer. It’s not even called Christmas or anything with “Christ” e.g in Scandinavia. Because no way we’d let the church change also the name. No sir.
The church just had to adopt the festive period. Santa Claus is an even later addition.
And famously the red Santa is thanks to Coca Cola.
So basically the red Santa hat is a symbol that Coca Cola put on top a legend of a saint that was in turn adopted onto pagan winter rites. It’s not exactly bibles all over it.
A single troll has managed to create an insanely huge drama and loss of tons of people time.
I'm not optimistic about the future of Free Software. Especially with the new tendency of some projects to consider that people can be offended about pretty much anything, especially if it is completely trivial, and that the utmost priority is to attempt to not offend anybody on Earth.
Because like we saw here, attempting to not offend by modifying trivialities is actually going to offend way more people.
And this is exploited by trolls.
I'm not optimistic about the future of Free Software. Especially with the new tendency of some projects to consider that people can be offended about pretty much anything, especially if it is completely trivial, and that the utmost priority is to attempt to not offend anybody on Earth.
Because like we saw here, attempting to not offend by modifying trivialities is actually going to offend way more people.
And this is exploited by trolls.
I commented on a similar case (on a gitlab thread) and got downvoted. I dont mind. it wont change the truth. my comment was:
"because it all comes down to the root cause:
the attack on an area which until now couldnt care less about politics. now in the context of "free speech" we try to brake the last known union out there in the world. developers, who have only let code speak so far."
we will see more and more attacks on free speech (in the name of free speech), open source and companies and people who contribute to open source.
"because it all comes down to the root cause:
the attack on an area which until now couldnt care less about politics. now in the context of "free speech" we try to brake the last known union out there in the world. developers, who have only let code speak so far."
we will see more and more attacks on free speech (in the name of free speech), open source and companies and people who contribute to open source.
> we reverted the gear to something (hopefully) less controversial (a snowflake)
I’m too sensible to get offended by things like this (cynical amusement is more my style), but as a southern hemispherian—
People from the north hemisphere regularly seem to describe things in terms of seasons (e.g. “coming this summer”), completely disregarding the fact that such seasons don’t hold in most of the world: in the southern hemisphere they’re back to front, and nearer the equator seasons are just all-round different. Southern hemispherians don’t seem to describe scheduled things with seasons much, and only ever in local matters, not global.
(Then you get things like Microsoft’s use of “Fall” in a Windows 10 release which makes it not just northern-hemisphericentric, if I may coin a term, but downright American by virtue of not using the word “autumn” that everyone else uses.)
Back to the snowflakes. Australia’s on fire now, from the heat. (And a town near me was under direct threat of burning down from a bushfire last night.) Even if we ever got snow where I live (we don’t), this would not be the season for it!
I’m too sensible to get offended by things like this (cynical amusement is more my style), but as a southern hemispherian—
People from the north hemisphere regularly seem to describe things in terms of seasons (e.g. “coming this summer”), completely disregarding the fact that such seasons don’t hold in most of the world: in the southern hemisphere they’re back to front, and nearer the equator seasons are just all-round different. Southern hemispherians don’t seem to describe scheduled things with seasons much, and only ever in local matters, not global.
(Then you get things like Microsoft’s use of “Fall” in a Windows 10 release which makes it not just northern-hemisphericentric, if I may coin a term, but downright American by virtue of not using the word “autumn” that everyone else uses.)
Back to the snowflakes. Australia’s on fire now, from the heat. (And a town near me was under direct threat of burning down from a bushfire last night.) Even if we ever got snow where I live (we don’t), this would not be the season for it!
Somewhat addressed in the linked issue:
> We’ve added a new setting to Insiders that lets you choose the icon. If you like the red hat, go for it! Maybe you live in the southern hemisphere or you are heading to the beach during the holidays, there’s an icon for you too.
> We’ve added a new setting to Insiders that lets you choose the icon. If you like the red hat, go for it! Maybe you live in the southern hemisphere or you are heading to the beach during the holidays, there’s an icon for you too.
I am not saying its a good thing they do, but >85% of the population live in the northern hemisphere and thus experience the same seasons
https://www.themarysue.com/world-population-latitude-longitu...
Wikipedia notes it higher: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Hemisphere
https://www.themarysue.com/world-population-latitude-longitu...
Wikipedia notes it higher: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Hemisphere
However, a great many of those live in tropical climes which do not conform to the four-season model, c.f. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season.
At the current rate of climate change I would say that won't last for long.
But, I agree. Even though they adhere to the tropical model, don't they still know what "season" it is?
But, I agree. Even though they adhere to the tropical model, don't they still know what "season" it is?
Don't inspire the trolls. I can see it now:
Vscode GitHub issue next year: "X people died of heatstroke in Australia in 2020. Please remove snowflake icon out of respect for climate change and those that have died"
Vscode GitHub issue next year: "X people died of heatstroke in Australia in 2020. Please remove snowflake icon out of respect for climate change and those that have died"
The OP Issue Filer _has_ to be trolling...
> even a single person being offended is one too many
This is how you make things bland, soulless and ultimately inhuman.
This is how you make things bland, soulless and ultimately inhuman.
A lot of us process the world using rule-based algorithms. This makes us natural programmers but sorely inadequate to handle the world.
For example the rule of "if religious, then don't include in product" is usually pretty sane.
But near a decision boundary, you will always get disagreement. A certain portion of programmers would've arrived at the conclusion that isReligious(santa) == False while some will be dead set that the answer must be True. Both side are confident that the other side is making a fatal mistake because they are confident in their logic skills. But the real problem is that binary logic can't handle these sort of high context fuzzy situation at all.
For example the rule of "if religious, then don't include in product" is usually pretty sane.
But near a decision boundary, you will always get disagreement. A certain portion of programmers would've arrived at the conclusion that isReligious(santa) == False while some will be dead set that the answer must be True. Both side are confident that the other side is making a fatal mistake because they are confident in their logic skills. But the real problem is that binary logic can't handle these sort of high context fuzzy situation at all.
Even though I'm a strong atheist who always rejects the pushing of religious values in our laws, I really enjoy the Christmas/Holiday season because it's honestly just a happy time around family (and unless you go seeking it out, you hardly see Jesus mentioned.)
I don't understand the idea of being offended at what is essentially a happy time for many people where they are celebrating something that matters to THEM. Again, they're not pushing it on anyone.
Maybe it's my polytheistic upbringing (grew up Hindu by name in India, with many relatives that also prayed to the infant Jesus alongside their Hindu Gods).
The Santa hat is about as harmless a sign of the holidays as I can imagine (it's not like they showed a cross or something). To borrow from the Reddit phrase, this is the most boring kind of dystopia where a completely harmless sign offends people.
I don't understand the idea of being offended at what is essentially a happy time for many people where they are celebrating something that matters to THEM. Again, they're not pushing it on anyone.
Maybe it's my polytheistic upbringing (grew up Hindu by name in India, with many relatives that also prayed to the infant Jesus alongside their Hindu Gods).
The Santa hat is about as harmless a sign of the holidays as I can imagine (it's not like they showed a cross or something). To borrow from the Reddit phrase, this is the most boring kind of dystopia where a completely harmless sign offends people.
Forgive me if this is a poor/rude question, but I'm curious about the inclusion of infant Jesus you mentioned. Is there some significance the infant has that another aged representation would not?
Sorry, I have no idea why. But Infant Jesus is really popular in South India.
As a very curious kid, I used to ask my grandpa and others the same question but never got a satisfying answer.
As a very curious kid, I used to ask my grandpa and others the same question but never got a satisfying answer.
I just feel sad for the folks at Crosoft putting their time and love in the product and have to put up with this stuff. That's the offensive part to me, littering other people's work, down to having them close the repo.
"The snowflake on vscode insiders is very offensive to me, as people with delicate sensibilities are typically referred to as "snowflakes" as an insult. This is very politcal and has cost many Jews their lives, or something. Please remove it immediately and make it your top priority. To me this is almost equally offensive as a Santa hat."
I'm sure if we continue to cave to these people they will eventually stop.
I'm sure if we continue to cave to these people they will eventually stop.
Every time I see things like this I always want to think that it's someone wanting to make a point of showing how mere feigning offense is enough to make a huge company bend over to your demands, and that there's some bigger lesson to be learned from this, but alas, that is probably not the case here...
it's saddening and upsetting that such benign acts are blown way out of proportion by people, often with agenda, who simply are not happy or can't let other people go on with their life!
it just seems that we can't agree on anything anymore. i mean that's okay, but it starts to become worrisome when we can't agree on civility, decency, or even science in some cases!
it just seems that we can't agree on anything anymore. i mean that's okay, but it starts to become worrisome when we can't agree on civility, decency, or even science in some cases!
I'm offended by the removal of the hat! Check mate ;)
I think they handled this complex situation as good as they could.
Good job
Good job
[deleted]
May be it is about time we practise the same MIT license mentality, Dont use it if you dont like it?
All these what ever religions, something -ism, politics is getting ridiculous.
All these what ever religions, something -ism, politics is getting ridiculous.
Couldn't he just not use vscode?
I think the response from Microsoft should have been somethjng like "it's unfortunate to are offended by this but this absolutely wasn't our intention". If you dont wish to use vscode during the holiday season then that's up to you but the vast majority of our users saw the hat as we intended and we aren't going to have one user dictate to us how we run vscode"
I mean, isn't vs code essentially open source? If the guy was so offended couldn't he just remove it and build hus own inoffensive version? Presumably if he's using vscode he is a developer...
It's the request to remove it as a top priority that I find strangest. The ego of someone must have to think they can dictate to everyone else what to do just to make sure they themselves get a perfectly comfortable existence. I genuinely don't get it. It must be just an exhausting way to live?
Is this sort of perpetual offence/ victimhood more prevalent in IT than other industries? Is it just a by product of the sort of people out industry attracts?
I think the response from Microsoft should have been somethjng like "it's unfortunate to are offended by this but this absolutely wasn't our intention". If you dont wish to use vscode during the holiday season then that's up to you but the vast majority of our users saw the hat as we intended and we aren't going to have one user dictate to us how we run vscode"
I mean, isn't vs code essentially open source? If the guy was so offended couldn't he just remove it and build hus own inoffensive version? Presumably if he's using vscode he is a developer...
It's the request to remove it as a top priority that I find strangest. The ego of someone must have to think they can dictate to everyone else what to do just to make sure they themselves get a perfectly comfortable existence. I genuinely don't get it. It must be just an exhausting way to live?
Is this sort of perpetual offence/ victimhood more prevalent in IT than other industries? Is it just a by product of the sort of people out industry attracts?
even better, he could have not used the insider edition. Apparently this was only on the insider edition
Just think about this for 2 seconds: What would this all have been about if the original icon was a Menorah? Just really think about that.
Or heck, how about one of the few icons used for Hinduism if you want to go for popularity.
Or heck, how about one of the few icons used for Hinduism if you want to go for popularity.
I hope that Destiny weighs in harshly on the jerks who oscillate between
- virtue-signaling about how diverse they are and
- demanding conformity with some impossible standard of innocuousness.
The Roman alphabet and English language are bastions of intolerance and H8, after all: any one employing these instruments of oppression must be. . .oh, wait. . .
- virtue-signaling about how diverse they are and
- demanding conformity with some impossible standard of innocuousness.
The Roman alphabet and English language are bastions of intolerance and H8, after all: any one employing these instruments of oppression must be. . .oh, wait. . .
> Thank you Microsoft, I am very pleased with that decision. I understand many find this strange, therefor I would like to add an article about how offensive xmas is to many so you understand why. https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/51928?lang=bi
I am not sure there is that many people offended by Christmas for the reasons given in that article. I am inclined to change my mind though.
Is VLC next ?
I am not sure there is that many people offended by Christmas for the reasons given in that article. I am inclined to change my mind though.
Is VLC next ?
> even a single person being offended is one too many
This is absurd.
This is absurd.
This is a pretty obvious risk. What value did adding a “cute” icon to VS Code provide? There’s no upside here. Just don’t do it.
The snowflake is an equally bad idea.
The snowflake is an equally bad idea.
It creates delight. Celebrating the end of year and winter season
I know the date, why do I need a a UI element to remind me. It doesn’t make me mad but it doesn’t bring me joy either.
We made a winter themed mixpanel with subtle changes and many customers have let us know how much they love it. So I guess it’s not for everyone.
In the same theme of google changing their logo doodles. I really love and respect that.
In the same theme of google changing their logo doodles. I really love and respect that.
I think this is a overreaction. Even Google has had Christmas Doodles. I see Christmas more of the commercialized thing, Santa, Trees, Snowman, Presents, Candy canes, Getting the family together... I'm not the most religious person, but Jesus isn't the first thing that comes to mind for me when thinking of Christmas but I'm sure if I grew up in a more religious household I'd probably have another view. However I do think cutting down a fresh tree is wasteful even though many people do it.
There's someone I know who tells me Halloween offends him though, but I don't really understand why. Even some churches celebrate Halloween, passing out candy and stuff... Then Easter I'm sure offends people too, brainwashing children that a bunny comes around laying eggs.
There's someone I know who tells me Halloween offends him though, but I don't really understand why. Even some churches celebrate Halloween, passing out candy and stuff... Then Easter I'm sure offends people too, brainwashing children that a bunny comes around laying eggs.
Holiday symbolic bikeshedding... either the trolls have won or the lack of sense of humor has won. Don't we have enough in-laws and existential threats to argue about?
What was the complaint? Why was that one person so annoyed by the Santa hat? And why do projects admins need to care about him been offended from a Santa hat?
[0]: https://www.amazon.com/Corporate-Cancer-Miracles-Millions-Co...