I won’t buy an iPad: ten years later(boingboing.net)
boingboing.net
I won’t buy an iPad: ten years later
https://boingboing.net/2020/01/27/nascent-boulangism.html
118 comments
I won't buy another iPad, because my perfectly good iPad has essentially died from being cut off from most of the services it needs to run. Apps have been "updated" to versions that won't work, and the ability to download older versions is sketchy at best. Most recently, I discovered that my magazine access has stopped working, so not only did I stop getting new issues, I can't download older content that wasn't on my iPad when they killed it. Discontinuing system software updates was bad enough, but actively killing off the functions it needs to keep operating at the old level is too much for me.
Your app vendors are making their business decisions. They can hit 98% of customers by coding with the modern, feature rich, man hour efficient APIs. The short tail of early model iPads in use don’t justify the larger expense to develop and test using the older APIs.
Apple doesn’t say it out loud, but they can’t just decide to support the new iOS versions on the first few versions of hardware. There just isn’t enough processing power there to deliver a respectable user experience with the new software. Sure, it worked fine when new, but as processor cycles got more plentiful, they still all got used by programmers.
␄
* one site is showing 98% of users running iOS 12 or higher.
* just 0.1% are stuck at iOS 6.
* the site: http://david-smith.org/iosversionstats/template_
Apple doesn’t say it out loud, but they can’t just decide to support the new iOS versions on the first few versions of hardware. There just isn’t enough processing power there to deliver a respectable user experience with the new software. Sure, it worked fine when new, but as processor cycles got more plentiful, they still all got used by programmers.
␄
* one site is showing 98% of users running iOS 12 or higher.
* just 0.1% are stuck at iOS 6.
* the site: http://david-smith.org/iosversionstats/template_
My problem isn't that new stuff stopped being developed. It's that old stuff that previously worked is now broken. Supposedly, the app store will keep track of versions and let you download the "last known good" version for your hardware. Unfortunately, many devs released updates that claimed to work on hardware that it didn't actually work on. I had a program that got an update, and suddenly wouldn't work because it now required a "front facing camera" on hardware that had no such camera. They overwrote the "last known good" version for my hardware, so there was no way to go back. Even if they don't actively develop and support things on the old hardware, how about just not screwing it up for people?
My Macbook Air just went out of OS support, and apps have already started to bitrot. My iPhone just went out of iOS support, so it's just a matter of time before I start getting "bad" updates that wreck my stuff. My iPad and iPod touch went out of support years ago, and the only thing that still worked consistently was 2 magazine subscriptions on the iPad...which broke sometime in August 2019.
How much effort is it to keep the digital lifeline services still working, so that I can continue to use paid-for content and apps? I know it's greater than 0, but I went from being a dedicated Apple user to one who will never buy another Apple product. Every single previous purchase has resulted in pristine and perfectly functioning hardware being rendered useless by loss online support services. If I can't update on my schedule and my budget, I can't justify buying the hardware.
My Macbook Air just went out of OS support, and apps have already started to bitrot. My iPhone just went out of iOS support, so it's just a matter of time before I start getting "bad" updates that wreck my stuff. My iPad and iPod touch went out of support years ago, and the only thing that still worked consistently was 2 magazine subscriptions on the iPad...which broke sometime in August 2019.
How much effort is it to keep the digital lifeline services still working, so that I can continue to use paid-for content and apps? I know it's greater than 0, but I went from being a dedicated Apple user to one who will never buy another Apple product. Every single previous purchase has resulted in pristine and perfectly functioning hardware being rendered useless by loss online support services. If I can't update on my schedule and my budget, I can't justify buying the hardware.
App creators are given an API and ways not to break support for your device; it’s on them to do device testing of all their app’s corner cases. This doesnt seem unreasonable to me. What else should apple do?
Apple can share the blame, because they didn't test the app like they should have to verify that the app was in fact compatible with the hardware the dev claimed. Or maybe the dev did everything right, but Xcode had a bug.
But mainly, just let me download whatever previous version I want.
But mainly, just let me download whatever previous version I want.
Maybe Apple doesn't have a spare iPad just lying around; they're hoping that the devs have bought all their extras, to test software updates in different platforms...
Why not let the user download any old version? Let the users mark newer versions as broken for their hardware, so that the last-known-working-version is not reset?
I mean, they have a platform, but the feedback loop seems kind of broken.
I mean, they have a platform, but the feedback loop seems kind of broken.
Meanwhile, Nokia N900 is still a capable device with new software releases being developed for it (like Devuan-based Maemo Leste or Alpine-based postmarketOS).
You can go into the App Store settings and disable auto-updating. Seems like that could fix the issue for you?
One used to be able to back up apps directly to Mac or PC via iTunes but it seems like that ability was lost in 2018, now that I search for it.
For Macs, it’s still easy. Use time machine and if an app updates to a bad version you can just restore the earlier .app file from your time machine.
One used to be able to back up apps directly to Mac or PC via iTunes but it seems like that ability was lost in 2018, now that I search for it.
For Macs, it’s still easy. Use time machine and if an app updates to a bad version you can just restore the earlier .app file from your time machine.
I’m consistent stunned at how a community built around tech startups cannot understand these business trade offs. People talk about mvps and happy paths and growth hacking but can’t understand how a business could look at some niche use case and say “yeah that deserves total support.”
Keeping stuff working across updates is a niche use case?
But, Apple is going above and beyond to coerce users into needlessly updating. I was actually forced to update my iPad because I forgot my pin[1].
Everything Apple has done has had the effect of slowly bricking your iPad, bit by bit.
And these so called "upgrades" have only had the effect of removing features and slowing my device, and generally degrading the UX. This is not ok.
I never actually purchased my iPad, it was given to me to develop medical software. And even though it was used in a closed offline environment, this forced update still broke things and set back our development. I also know a teacher who was forced to shelve her lessons after she was tricked into updating her iPad 4 to iOS 11, which had so much latency when typing that it was rendered virtually useless.
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11986500
Everything Apple has done has had the effect of slowly bricking your iPad, bit by bit.
And these so called "upgrades" have only had the effect of removing features and slowing my device, and generally degrading the UX. This is not ok.
I never actually purchased my iPad, it was given to me to develop medical software. And even though it was used in a closed offline environment, this forced update still broke things and set back our development. I also know a teacher who was forced to shelve her lessons after she was tricked into updating her iPad 4 to iOS 11, which had so much latency when typing that it was rendered virtually useless.
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11986500
My old iPads become single purpose devices around the house. I have an iPad 3 with a powered speaker case. I think the case was originally $300, but I got it for $25 because of the obsolete tech. That's a dedicated GarageBand machine for when my nephews come over.
Another old iPad is the dedicated darts scoring tablet.
Another old iPad is the dedicated darts scoring tablet.
I'm in the same boat with my launch day iPad. It still works great for e-mail, but pretty much every other app is useless now. So I just keep it by the couch in case I want to look at e-mail.
That said, it's a 10-year-old machine. I don't have any desktop or laptop computers left that are good for anything other than e-mail, either.
That said, it's a 10-year-old machine. I don't have any desktop or laptop computers left that are good for anything other than e-mail, either.
My late 2011 Macbook Pro is what I am using to reply to this comment. I can even do some light gaming on this still if I so choose. Plenty fast for anything web(including streaming video), coding and certainly email. I actually cannot bring myself to buy anything new because the mild bump I might get will hardly be worth what I have to pay to get that bump.
The difference with desktop operating systems are that applications almost always work for many, many releases. This does not seem to be the case with iOS.
The difference with desktop operating systems are that applications almost always work for many, many releases. This does not seem to be the case with iOS.
My main desktop isn't quite 10 years old (I got it in 2013), but it works quite well for rather more intensive uses such software development and playing games, despite not upgrading anything other than the hard drives. Admittedly, it was a high-end system when I bought it.
I think it’s a little unfair to compare a 10 year old desktop today with a 10 year old ipad today because the rate of progress for desktops has been much lower (and many programs are designed to work on less powerful laptops).
Instead consider that a 10 year old laptop in 2010 would be basically useless and massively heavy, or a 10 year old desktop in eg 2007.
Instead consider that a 10 year old laptop in 2010 would be basically useless and massively heavy, or a 10 year old desktop in eg 2007.
GP did say that "desktop or laptop computer" didn't last 10 years either. I agree that desktops are going to age better than any other segment of computers.
Desktop performance hasn't progressed as rapidly in the last 10 years (relative to each successive generation of desktop) in comparison to iPad's which seem to have doubled in speed each successive generation.
The comparison isn't about hardware speed though, its about software versions. I had an iPad as well. Then successive updates which made it slower and slower, and eventually older software stopped working.
Compare to Android, where I can still run many modern apps on old hardware with Android 2.3, or at least could at the time my iPad was almost completely obsoleted and I sold it off.
Its like if you were forced to upgrade from Windows XP to Windows Vista on your 512MB laptop - which could handle Windows XP just fine but couldn't handle Vista, even though yes Vista came with many new features.
Compare to Android, where I can still run many modern apps on old hardware with Android 2.3, or at least could at the time my iPad was almost completely obsoleted and I sold it off.
Its like if you were forced to upgrade from Windows XP to Windows Vista on your 512MB laptop - which could handle Windows XP just fine but couldn't handle Vista, even though yes Vista came with many new features.
Until early last year, my Plex server was a circa 2009, Core 2 Duo 2.66Ghz Dell laptop with 8GB of RAM and a gigabit Ethernet port. It was running Windows 10.
As of last year, the last time I used my first gen iPad, Netflix, Hulu, Plex and Crackle still worked.
These are some of the reasons for which I tend to prefer PDF files for eBooks rather than attachment to anyone's specific viewers (Apple or otherwise). I still have 20 year old PC's running useful software (example: A $30,000 test instrument that consists of a domain-specific card plugged into a PC running Windows 95).
In general terms, the PC world has been characterized for what I usually describe as an intense respect for the hardware and software investment made by users not to become unnecessarily (or unjustifiably) obsolete. Another example I have of this is the Adobe CS4 suite, which we purchased back in 2008 and is perfectly usable (and in use on a daily basis) 12 years later across many evolutions of the Windows hardware and software landscape.
We also have Apple products, Macs, iPads, etc. I still remember Apple pushing the reset button twice; once in transitioning to the PowerPC processors and then abandoning the platform; obsoleting all existing software in the process. Twice.
Not complaining, just a historical perspective and a difference in philosophy between two segments of the market. I never go into the Apple ecosystem assuming the solutions are going to survive the test of time. On the other hand, in the PC world, it is likely safe to assume you are in full control of when you might want to obsolete the hardware and software you purchase. From a business perspective this difference is important.
In general terms, the PC world has been characterized for what I usually describe as an intense respect for the hardware and software investment made by users not to become unnecessarily (or unjustifiably) obsolete. Another example I have of this is the Adobe CS4 suite, which we purchased back in 2008 and is perfectly usable (and in use on a daily basis) 12 years later across many evolutions of the Windows hardware and software landscape.
We also have Apple products, Macs, iPads, etc. I still remember Apple pushing the reset button twice; once in transitioning to the PowerPC processors and then abandoning the platform; obsoleting all existing software in the process. Twice.
Not complaining, just a historical perspective and a difference in philosophy between two segments of the market. I never go into the Apple ecosystem assuming the solutions are going to survive the test of time. On the other hand, in the PC world, it is likely safe to assume you are in full control of when you might want to obsolete the hardware and software you purchase. From a business perspective this difference is important.
This is a similar reason as to why I am done paying for apps/games for phones. The phone I have can run the app or game and I upgrade the OS and I find that because no one was buying the game anymore it just was never signed for the new OS and will not run. It could run just fine, but it has been abandoned because the developer went on to something new.
Services like Steam do a way better job of keeping games running than the typical app store does for games and apps.
Services like Steam do a way better job of keeping games running than the typical app store does for games and apps.
A related change is what has bugged me a lot about having control over the apps (and app versions) on our devices. Ever since Apple removed syncing apps with a computer from iOS 9 onwards, claiming that it's required for app thinning, the "cloud" is the only option for apps. And the cloud really sucks – it's quite slow even when setting up a new device where it downloads all apps again, and many a times gets the newest version which you may not want. Apple could have provided a way to store, on the computer, multiple binaries for an app depending on the device architectures used by that user and have iTunes sync the correct binary, but decided not to. Then Apple completely removed the App Store part from iTunes.
That’s unfortunate. Which hardware version do you have? Apple has been supporting older devices fairly well from my perspective, often reaching back 5 years or more.
The iPad 1, which I owned though I'm not the parent commenter, came with iOS 3, and the final compatible release was iOS 5 two years later. It worked poorly with iOS 5 after two years, and was fully obsolete after three years.
Even for those early days, it went from new to obsolete extremely fast.
Even for those early days, it went from new to obsolete extremely fast.
The first iPad aged really fast. I have a conspiracy theory that they brought the iPad 2 to Steve first and he told them to fatten it up and slow it down because it was already ahead of the market. There was a huge size decrease between the first 2.
I think that's just a thing with Apple version 1. The original iPhone, Macbook Air, and Apple Watch were all pretty underpowered, and were quickly and thoroughly obsoleted by the next one or two models. The first Apple Watch model faded so hard that it's now informally called Series 0.
My old iPhone 4 still works - I just keep it in airplane mode 24/7 and never allow it to connect to the internet
What iPad do you have?
The original iPad. Per Wikipedia, it had full software support for 2 years, 5 months. Which was by far the shortest support lifespan of any iPad.
It had only 256MB of RAM, compared to the iPhone 4 that came out 3 months later with 512MB of RAM.
I have met the writer and he is a nice fella but he is so preposterously missing any kind of substance in this article. A lot of great Apple technology has the ability to get out of your way and I often feel that people are being angry on principle. Making things maintainable or serviceable is a design requirement from the get-go, with all kinds of trade-offs and compromises that are endlessly speculated about on the web. But some people seem to think these trade-offs don’t exist. Hypercard? Great at the time. How much did a Mac cost to run it though? Anyway, this article is poorly thought-out and badly-written on top, with absolutely nothing to offer that you didn’t already know.
How is it lacking substance? He points out issues very sanely and very cleanly, like...
1. How Apple has gone out of their way to prevent allowing other people from touching their devices, including influencing legislation. (It wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if they weren't trying to get guns pointed at anyone who wanted to fix their device themselves, but the act of lobbying to make the law bend to fit your desires is bad for just about everyone.)
2. How the iPad has (nearly) succeeded at ruining the best parts of hobbies he likes, like comics.
3. Apple design principles have moved from "Sane, intuitive," to making software targeting the stereotype of "My mother's a dumb old lady; she'd never understand this!"
4. They've made a joke out of non-vendor-locked software distribution.
5. People coming to their defense have disavowed basic market principles in doing so.
I don't even mind Apple's "walled garden," but Doctorow makes sound points, and I think the article is a fantastic read, especially when paired with the article it's referencing.
1. How Apple has gone out of their way to prevent allowing other people from touching their devices, including influencing legislation. (It wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if they weren't trying to get guns pointed at anyone who wanted to fix their device themselves, but the act of lobbying to make the law bend to fit your desires is bad for just about everyone.)
2. How the iPad has (nearly) succeeded at ruining the best parts of hobbies he likes, like comics.
3. Apple design principles have moved from "Sane, intuitive," to making software targeting the stereotype of "My mother's a dumb old lady; she'd never understand this!"
4. They've made a joke out of non-vendor-locked software distribution.
5. People coming to their defense have disavowed basic market principles in doing so.
I don't even mind Apple's "walled garden," but Doctorow makes sound points, and I think the article is a fantastic read, especially when paired with the article it's referencing.
+1 I agree with you.
I have two Linux laptops that I can do anything I want on. Fit for hacking and having fun with.
I also value my Apple closed system devices: Apple Watch + AirPods, iPhone 11 pro camera (it makes phone calls also), MacBook, and a small iPad Pro. The Apple devices sort of fade into the background for reading books, listening to music and audiobooks, and writing.
I don’t see what is wrong having open devices and also locked down devices, for different use cases.
EDIT: also, I don’t install very many apps on iOS devices and when possible use web apps. More of my software development is also now done on leased VPS. Usually, I want my local devices to be secure and convenient.
I have two Linux laptops that I can do anything I want on. Fit for hacking and having fun with.
I also value my Apple closed system devices: Apple Watch + AirPods, iPhone 11 pro camera (it makes phone calls also), MacBook, and a small iPad Pro. The Apple devices sort of fade into the background for reading books, listening to music and audiobooks, and writing.
I don’t see what is wrong having open devices and also locked down devices, for different use cases.
EDIT: also, I don’t install very many apps on iOS devices and when possible use web apps. More of my software development is also now done on leased VPS. Usually, I want my local devices to be secure and convenient.
While I don't share the sentiment, I get the refusal to participate in the Apple App Store ecosystem. It's clear what the ideological issue there is.
But I do not at all understand the enmity some nerds have for non-replaceable batteries. Over the last 10 years it seems like Apple has run an experiment on whether batteries work better when they're tightly integrated and not replaceable, and that the results are demonstrably in. The performance I get from non-replaceable batteries has been so much better that I would automatically be suspicious of any device that had replaceable batteries. Meanwhile, if I really want to carry a spare battery with me, I still can; it just takes the form of a USB charger.
But I do not at all understand the enmity some nerds have for non-replaceable batteries. Over the last 10 years it seems like Apple has run an experiment on whether batteries work better when they're tightly integrated and not replaceable, and that the results are demonstrably in. The performance I get from non-replaceable batteries has been so much better that I would automatically be suspicious of any device that had replaceable batteries. Meanwhile, if I really want to carry a spare battery with me, I still can; it just takes the form of a USB charger.
I think they're largely fine with carrying a USB charger, the complaint is that the built-in battery is known to degrade over time. If your device has a removable battery, you can get a new one and pop it in. But when everything is sealed together that becomes a much riskier job.
A lot of people replace their phones on a 2-3 year cycle. If you could get a new battery for $30 and install it yourself in 30 seconds, would people be throwing less phones out?
You'll note that Apple's warranty language (and probably everyone else's) specifically defines batteries as a "consumable part." Given that, it's a bit of a dick move to make them so difficult to replace.
A lot of people replace their phones on a 2-3 year cycle. If you could get a new battery for $30 and install it yourself in 30 seconds, would people be throwing less phones out?
You'll note that Apple's warranty language (and probably everyone else's) specifically defines batteries as a "consumable part." Given that, it's a bit of a dick move to make them so difficult to replace.
If you could get a new battery for $30 and install it yourself in 30 seconds, would people be throwing less phones out?
Having had cell phones starting in 1994, when replaceable batteries were just how it was done, I can say people did replace their phones just as often as now.
My memory is that people replaced them every year back then, in part, because the batteries were so awful and new phones kept coming out with better battery life.
Today, many (most?) people keep their cell phones for at least two years, and on HN it seems to be even longer. I have an iPhone 5 from 2013 that I use for traveling, and it just keeps going. Using a seven-year-old phone would have been unheard of back in the days of replaceable batteries.
Having had cell phones starting in 1994, when replaceable batteries were just how it was done, I can say people did replace their phones just as often as now.
My memory is that people replaced them every year back then, in part, because the batteries were so awful and new phones kept coming out with better battery life.
Today, many (most?) people keep their cell phones for at least two years, and on HN it seems to be even longer. I have an iPhone 5 from 2013 that I use for traveling, and it just keeps going. Using a seven-year-old phone would have been unheard of back in the days of replaceable batteries.
The battery is the fastest-degrading component. It is also one of the most easily replaceable components, speaking in general and not specifically to the way Apple designs it to be non-removable. The desire to replace the fastest degrading component to extend the life of the device makes perfect sense from the consumer's perspective.
Additionally, most phones have a 2nd and 3rd owner (a child, or exported to another market). A 3 year old Pixel still has another 3 years of useful life at least.
Frankly it is ecological cancer to operate the way Apple does.
Frankly it is ecological cancer to operate the way Apple does.
Pixel's don't have batteries that are intended to be user serviceable either. Plus, they don't get 6 years of updates...
At least it's easy to drop by an Apple store to take advantage of the trade-in/recycle program.
At least it's easy to drop by an Apple store to take advantage of the trade-in/recycle program.
You can pay Apple to put a new battery in an old iPhone.
Only if you have a spare, or you use it so little that you can do without it—no mobile email, no GPS, no AAA, and no 2FA for up to a week.
Up to a week? They can do it in the store the same day if you make an appointment.
https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-powe... warned that they'll try.
“In more complex cases, we might need to send it to an Apple Repair Center.”
There are no “complex cases” of battery repair. They are referring to cases where there is other damage they have to fix first (which they stated).
There are no “complex cases” of battery repair. They are referring to cases where there is other damage they have to fix first (which they stated).
Not everyone lives near an Apple Store either.
Thankfully Apple has recently made genuine iPhone batteries more available to repair shops, but that was just 4 months ago. They spent 13 years not doing that first.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/29/20838307/apple-iphone-rep...
Thankfully Apple has recently made genuine iPhone batteries more available to repair shops, but that was just 4 months ago. They spent 13 years not doing that first.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/29/20838307/apple-iphone-rep...
People have been able to go to a shop and get batteries replaced (whether they were genuine or not) for a decade. It’s only been within the past two or three years where it made the slightest difference between whether it was genuine or not.
How inane is the comment you just wrote. Please just, reread that to yourself a couple times. It's MaDnEsS
A replacement battery installed by Apple is $49-$69. I don't know if I would trust a third party battery in my phone
I have an iPad Pro that had battery issues, and Apple replaced it toward the end of the 1-year warranty. They also said that if it happened again (outside the 90-day warranty that comes with all replacements), they would swap the entire device for me for the price of a battery replacement ($100). While this seems inconvenient, it actually makes it very easy to swap batteries. The price is not great, but considering the cost of an iPad Pro (closing in on $1,000, depending on size/storage), it's not a bad deal. Plus, you're not just getting a new battery — everything is new, and there's a 90-day warranty on everything.
> A lot of people replace their phones on a 2-3 year cycle. If you could get a new battery for $30 and install it yourself in 30 seconds, would people be throwing less phones out?
For apple products specifically this isn’t a big issue. I got my iPhone battery replaced for $29 a few years ago. I’ll probably get it replaced again at the end of this year if there’s still no SE-sized phone released to replace it (I think it’s $49 now).
For anything that’s not an apple product, finding a store to replace the battery is going to be a lot harder or impossible. I definitely prefer the choice to use removable batteries or rechargeable AAs on stuff like game controllers.
For apple products specifically this isn’t a big issue. I got my iPhone battery replaced for $29 a few years ago. I’ll probably get it replaced again at the end of this year if there’s still no SE-sized phone released to replace it (I think it’s $49 now).
For anything that’s not an apple product, finding a store to replace the battery is going to be a lot harder or impossible. I definitely prefer the choice to use removable batteries or rechargeable AAs on stuff like game controllers.
Given that you only replace them every few years at most, it seems reasonable to make the operation a little bit more work-intensive to gain on other aspects.
In the end it's still nothing very challenging to replace an iPhone or iPad battery.
In the end it's still nothing very challenging to replace an iPhone or iPad battery.
'tptacek, your Twitter is (or was, I guess, I don't think he's talking about that problem much right now) full of retweets of Pinboard saying things along the lines of "Companies throwing money and lobbying to influence legislation is bad and should be stopped."
A decade later, the [iPad] is ten years old and Apple has killed 20 state Right to Repair bills, in part to lock out third parties who might change you batteries for you.
How can you not understand that? Not allowing "plug'n'play" batteries that anyone with a screwdriver could do is at least hypothetically justifiable as a design decision, but Apple's batteries are replaceable and they go to great steps to prevent indie shops from doing so.
They demonstrate it pretty repeatedly by selling it as an extremely marked-up service in Apple's stores.
A decade later, the [iPad] is ten years old and Apple has killed 20 state Right to Repair bills, in part to lock out third parties who might change you batteries for you.
How can you not understand that? Not allowing "plug'n'play" batteries that anyone with a screwdriver could do is at least hypothetically justifiable as a design decision, but Apple's batteries are replaceable and they go to great steps to prevent indie shops from doing so.
They demonstrate it pretty repeatedly by selling it as an extremely marked-up service in Apple's stores.
What a weird response. The premise of my comment is that the Apple-style soldered-in integrated battery design is better than "plug and play" batteries you can install with just a screwdriver. If you don't agree with that premise, that's fine; maybe say why? Otherwise: what's your point? I'm saying the products are better for how they're designed.
I'm pretty sure Apple isn't making gigantic bank off battery upgrades.
To be candid: I don't much care about "Right To Repair". I'm not animated by most nerd policy priorities, like "Net Neutrality" or "Copyright Reform" or whatever. Those aren't my political priorities and they're not the concerns Pinboard is surfacing when he talks about Microsoft and Google donations.
I'm pretty sure Apple isn't making gigantic bank off battery upgrades.
To be candid: I don't much care about "Right To Repair". I'm not animated by most nerd policy priorities, like "Net Neutrality" or "Copyright Reform" or whatever. Those aren't my political priorities and they're not the concerns Pinboard is surfacing when he talks about Microsoft and Google donations.
I don't really care about Right to Repair, either, but the the criticism of the Apple battery situation in this post is explicitly about a private company bribing legislators into making a decision that benefits no one other than Apple itself and said legislators, and in the post it's quoting, none of your criticism of his criticism applies, because it was way before Apple had any time to collect evidence that making batteries harder to replace helped the consumer in any way.
While I don't mind the battery situation outside of the legislative issue, I do disagree on your claim that they're "better" in some way (but again, irrelevant to the original criticism).
Here's an anecdote to elaborate on why, since you asked:
I've had a few iPhones, varying degrees of battery quality, fairly well taken care of. I've also had a few other phones of various manufacturers and operating systems, mostly with replaceable batteries.
The ones with replaceable batteries had equivalent-to-better battery life than the iPhones I've had, including before replacing the battery, and especially after the battery on the iPhones had worn down a bit. Without iOS's battery management that throttles performance to save battery life, I've had iPhones that at 87% of max capacity (I just checked the one I'm currently using; it was probably higher when I tested this a few weeks ago) that can't outlast an HTC phone from eleven years ago that I've replaced the battery on a single time, when doing comparable tasks, and that's not even getting into the modern devices I have that beat both of them by a decent margin. This includes both with the screen on and the screen off.
Apple's battery life comes from software band-aids, not some magical benefit of soldering on batteries. Soldering just serves to make the device thinner, which is of dubious benefit.
While I don't mind the battery situation outside of the legislative issue, I do disagree on your claim that they're "better" in some way (but again, irrelevant to the original criticism).
Here's an anecdote to elaborate on why, since you asked:
I've had a few iPhones, varying degrees of battery quality, fairly well taken care of. I've also had a few other phones of various manufacturers and operating systems, mostly with replaceable batteries.
The ones with replaceable batteries had equivalent-to-better battery life than the iPhones I've had, including before replacing the battery, and especially after the battery on the iPhones had worn down a bit. Without iOS's battery management that throttles performance to save battery life, I've had iPhones that at 87% of max capacity (I just checked the one I'm currently using; it was probably higher when I tested this a few weeks ago) that can't outlast an HTC phone from eleven years ago that I've replaced the battery on a single time, when doing comparable tasks, and that's not even getting into the modern devices I have that beat both of them by a decent margin. This includes both with the screen on and the screen off.
Apple's battery life comes from software band-aids, not some magical benefit of soldering on batteries. Soldering just serves to make the device thinner, which is of dubious benefit.
Nobody had to bribe anyone to make products with integrated batteries.
> I'm pretty sure Apple isn't making gigantic bank off battery upgrades.
Agreed. Considering that getting an iPhone battery replaced directly by Apple costs about $49-$69 overall (as others have mentioned in the thread already), they almost definitely are not making bank off it.
Agreed. Considering that getting an iPhone battery replaced directly by Apple costs about $49-$69 overall (as others have mentioned in the thread already), they almost definitely are not making bank off it.
Are iPhone batteries really soldered-in? I've replaced a couple cracked screens, and vaguely remember replacing a battery on older iPhones, and I'm pretty sure I didn't need a soldering iron
How do you measure the performance you get from non replaceable batteries is better? Batteries have generally been getting better.
[deleted]
Modern electronics is generally a bad environment for batteries, so they tend to wear out much faster than the rest of the hardware. With a good design, wear parts are easy to repair, or as least as easy as possible.
> But I do not at all understand the enmity some nerds have for non-replaceable batteries.
Devices exist on a repairability spectrum, from the industrial appliance which is delivered with full electric schematics and every part stamped with a replacement order number, to the black-box NUSPI ["no user serviceable parts inside"]. The enmity is not really about batteries, but having that one question stand in as a measurement to ensure the device meets a minimal standard for allowing third-party repair.
Devices exist on a repairability spectrum, from the industrial appliance which is delivered with full electric schematics and every part stamped with a replacement order number, to the black-box NUSPI ["no user serviceable parts inside"]. The enmity is not really about batteries, but having that one question stand in as a measurement to ensure the device meets a minimal standard for allowing third-party repair.
I'm not sure where your confusion comes from.
I have a tablet from 2013. It works very well but the battery has worn out. I now have to throw it away because I can't replace the battery.
I have a tablet from 2013. It works very well but the battery has worn out. I now have to throw it away because I can't replace the battery.
Apple provides a battery replacement service for iPad for $99 so you technically do not have to throw it away if it still works for you
Way longer than that; the first iPod was almost 20 years ago. Also kickstarted the crazy idea of using a standard connector for charging (although of course FireWire didn't work out)
The iPad is a great form factor. I prefer sitting back with it over a computer.
10 years later I only wish Google or Microsoft had a stronger competitor. Apple has dragged their feet in making it more useful.
Apple’s Pencil is great but user input could be enhanced with something like Soli, for example:
https://atap.google.com/soli/
Slide a wireless keyboard and mouse next to a tablet and it should become my desktop computer.
10 years later I only wish Google or Microsoft had a stronger competitor. Apple has dragged their feet in making it more useful.
Apple’s Pencil is great but user input could be enhanced with something like Soli, for example:
https://atap.google.com/soli/
Slide a wireless keyboard and mouse next to a tablet and it should become my desktop computer.
I've tried many different tablets over the years, as I wanted to embrace the form factor. iPad, multiple Android (including the ASUS Transformer and a generic one from Dell), Windows (non-Surface, but Windows 8), and Nokia N800 Internet Tablet.
Honestly, I've found 90% of the time, even for consumption activities, I prefer to use a laptop with a keyboard. I've gone with a Pixelbook now as my main "entertainment device," which works well for surfing the web, document editing, reading, and watching Netflix in bed. The only activity of those I regularly use it in tablet mode is for reading ebooks, and it works quite well for that. Plus, I can use it as a Linux box reasonably well when I want to get work done. Like an iPad, it has pen support, a long battery life, and is very lightweight. I can use it in tablet mode and laptop mode.
Honestly, I've found 90% of the time, even for consumption activities, I prefer to use a laptop with a keyboard. I've gone with a Pixelbook now as my main "entertainment device," which works well for surfing the web, document editing, reading, and watching Netflix in bed. The only activity of those I regularly use it in tablet mode is for reading ebooks, and it works quite well for that. Plus, I can use it as a Linux box reasonably well when I want to get work done. Like an iPad, it has pen support, a long battery life, and is very lightweight. I can use it in tablet mode and laptop mode.
The thing I wish the iPad had was a keyboard and trackpad it locked into securely. When traveling I use my laptop on my, well, lap all the time. I usually travel with a tablet but it’s for entertainment. If I could turn it into something closer to a laptop, I’d ditch the laptop more often.
Fwiw Brydge makes these, with a second version coming later this year.
I looked at them. One issue was that by the time I considered the weight and bulk, I felt I might as well carry a separate Chromebook. And then I have something that’s standard laptop behavior too. I admit what I think I want may not actually be doable.
Since iPads support Bluetooth HID, it seems like it would be possible to create a Soli-type device that works with existing iPads.
Slide a wireless keyboard and mouse next to a tablet and it should become my desktop computer.
That's very close to what the iPad is now. I often sit in a coffee shop and read magazines on my iPad. Then when I'm ready to do some work, I just prop the iPad up on a table with its cover and turn on an old Bluetooth keyboard I keep in my bag.
E-mail on the left side of the screen. ssh on the right side with the Prompt app. Bang, it's 90% of what I use my desktop computer for.
I've heard that iPads support a Bluetooth mouse now, but I don't have any personal experience with it. I haven't heard anything about trackpads.
Slide a wireless keyboard and mouse next to a tablet and it should become my desktop computer.
That's very close to what the iPad is now. I often sit in a coffee shop and read magazines on my iPad. Then when I'm ready to do some work, I just prop the iPad up on a table with its cover and turn on an old Bluetooth keyboard I keep in my bag.
E-mail on the left side of the screen. ssh on the right side with the Prompt app. Bang, it's 90% of what I use my desktop computer for.
I've heard that iPads support a Bluetooth mouse now, but I don't have any personal experience with it. I haven't heard anything about trackpads.
> I've heard that iPads support a Bluetooth mouse now, but I don't have any personal experience with it. I haven't heard anything about trackpads.
They do, but it's emulating a fingertip (for accessibility), not a proper mouse cursor. It was neat to play around with for a little while, but not something you'd want to do over a longer term.
iPads will also work with Apple's Magic Touchpads (the standalone units), but they must be connected via USB, and the same finger-emulating touchscreen caveat applies.
They do, but it's emulating a fingertip (for accessibility), not a proper mouse cursor. It was neat to play around with for a little while, but not something you'd want to do over a longer term.
iPads will also work with Apple's Magic Touchpads (the standalone units), but they must be connected via USB, and the same finger-emulating touchscreen caveat applies.
I use both a bluetooth mouse and keyboard regularly with my iPad. I'm not sure what you mean by "not something you'd want to do over a longer term". Using the mouse is most definitely preferable to raising my hand to the iPad screen and pointing with my finger. Having said that, no, it doesn't feel as nice as real mouse or trackpad on a laptop or PC. But for the use case of having iPad on a stand and using it like a "real" computer (i.e, with keyboard and mouse), the current state of iPad mouse is at least usable, and preferable to having to physically touch the screen.
This is purely personal preference and probably not reflective of the overall market, but to me the big disadvantage of the iPad is that, as long as it's only running iOS, I still always feel like I need to own a "real" computer to do "real" work on.
The Microsoft offering is inferior as a tablet and inferior as a desktop OS (again subjective opinion), but it lets you have both a tablet and a laptop form factor without needing to own two units of hardware.
In a lot of ways it feels kind of like when I first switched from Windows to Mac back in the early 2000s. I knew that for 98% of stuff I do with a computer, OS9 (and then OSX) was perfectly fine. But the hassle of doing any of the other 2% kept me locked in. Making the jump from OSX to iOS feels the same way. The apps all seem to be 90% of what I need without issue, another 8% okay enough for now, and then 2% just unworkable. (And then there is the nightmare of trying to use many regular old websites on mobile these days with all the unresponsive scripts and ad cruft they carry.)
I'd love it if Apple could figure out some kind of bridge for iOS workloads to meet this, similar to how Parallels or BootCamp can let you get by with those 1 or 2 Windows things you still needed to do after switching. Maybe just let the iPad remote into my Mac at home if it has internet or have it run some kind of stripped down, emulated version of OSX.
The Microsoft offering is inferior as a tablet and inferior as a desktop OS (again subjective opinion), but it lets you have both a tablet and a laptop form factor without needing to own two units of hardware.
In a lot of ways it feels kind of like when I first switched from Windows to Mac back in the early 2000s. I knew that for 98% of stuff I do with a computer, OS9 (and then OSX) was perfectly fine. But the hassle of doing any of the other 2% kept me locked in. Making the jump from OSX to iOS feels the same way. The apps all seem to be 90% of what I need without issue, another 8% okay enough for now, and then 2% just unworkable. (And then there is the nightmare of trying to use many regular old websites on mobile these days with all the unresponsive scripts and ad cruft they carry.)
I'd love it if Apple could figure out some kind of bridge for iOS workloads to meet this, similar to how Parallels or BootCamp can let you get by with those 1 or 2 Windows things you still needed to do after switching. Maybe just let the iPad remote into my Mac at home if it has internet or have it run some kind of stripped down, emulated version of OSX.
but to me the big disadvantage of the iPad is that, as long as it's only running iOS, I still always feel like I need to own a "real" computer to do "real" work on.
To me that sounds perfectly normal and reasonable. A tablet is not a desktop. A desktop is not a tablet.
People complain that they cannot use their tablets to do desktop work, but somehow never complain that their tower doesn't travel well to the coffee shop.
To me that sounds perfectly normal and reasonable. A tablet is not a desktop. A desktop is not a tablet.
People complain that they cannot use their tablets to do desktop work, but somehow never complain that their tower doesn't travel well to the coffee shop.
My only observation is this: Not everything is about that one gadget you bought.
Yeah, I have an iPad. An iPhone. An Apple Watch. No, I can't mod these things, take them apart, etc. No, I don't care. I still have a self-built PC running Linux and a bunch of services. I still have a Macbook I can install whatever I want, even Windows or Linux if I chose to. I still have all my own networking hardware that's substantially more hackable.
Going wider, I have a car and I have a bike. One is more hackable than the other. One of them has a service light you need to go to the dealer to clear (unless you're in the know and have special tools). Some of that is in my wheelhouse, some isn't. Sometimes I pick a battle, sometimes I let a tool be a tool.
I think the world of computing is too wide to bother with puritanical about the devices I use. It's just not worth the energy when those things that are heretically 'infantilizing' etc. are just useful and pleasureful to use.
Yeah, I have an iPad. An iPhone. An Apple Watch. No, I can't mod these things, take them apart, etc. No, I don't care. I still have a self-built PC running Linux and a bunch of services. I still have a Macbook I can install whatever I want, even Windows or Linux if I chose to. I still have all my own networking hardware that's substantially more hackable.
Going wider, I have a car and I have a bike. One is more hackable than the other. One of them has a service light you need to go to the dealer to clear (unless you're in the know and have special tools). Some of that is in my wheelhouse, some isn't. Sometimes I pick a battle, sometimes I let a tool be a tool.
I think the world of computing is too wide to bother with puritanical about the devices I use. It's just not worth the energy when those things that are heretically 'infantilizing' etc. are just useful and pleasureful to use.
I think I agree with you for the most part. I’ve got a similar setup - linux at home with an iPhone in my pocket. I’ve broken a linux installation enough times that I know well enough that I’d eventually do the same to my phone if I ran android and rooted it. It’s a inevitability for me.
I don’t need everything to be running hyper customized stuff. Sometimes simple and stable is all I need.
I don’t need everything to be running hyper customized stuff. Sometimes simple and stable is all I need.
I get the ideological issues with the iOS software "walled garden", but the shitshow that is the only alternative (Android) leaves me wanting. It's malware and advertising infested and Android tablets are a joke and rarely supported for more than 2 years.
He complained about third party apps and then goes into a couple of nostalgia trips over the comic book store (I miss it and the music store, too) and taking apart much simpler electronics as a kid. Like, get your kid a regular PC case, then? What's there to even hack? The iPad, and almost every cell phone as well, is essentially a giant system on a chip with a screen and a battery. There's not much to hack. Also, most people keep thier iPads for more than two years unless it actually hard-fails. My last one was 5 years before I finally got a new one (though I also had the misfortune of buying the first one and the first retina one, which didn't hold up to the march of new models very well).
I don't need a hackable portable computer. I have a full time job and a toddler. I want to turn it on at the end of the day and look at stupid cat videos. Doctorow reminds me of the people that refused to get cell phones and then complained that their friends stopped contacting them.
Also, what the hell is a "CD-ROM programmer"? Does he just mean software that was distributed on CD-ROM?
Also, if he theoretically had "a lot" of AOL shares he'd have been "bailed out" by the merger with Time Warner and would have had "a lot" of shares in the successor companies (he wouldn't be laughing, but he'd have something), but the fact that he's still using AOL as a slur is showing just how much he hasn't moved on with the times, even in 2010.
The only real criticism I have of the ipad is its annoyingly bad background support. I still IRC and the clients disconnect very quickly if I switch apps. This makes SSH annoying as well.
He complained about third party apps and then goes into a couple of nostalgia trips over the comic book store (I miss it and the music store, too) and taking apart much simpler electronics as a kid. Like, get your kid a regular PC case, then? What's there to even hack? The iPad, and almost every cell phone as well, is essentially a giant system on a chip with a screen and a battery. There's not much to hack. Also, most people keep thier iPads for more than two years unless it actually hard-fails. My last one was 5 years before I finally got a new one (though I also had the misfortune of buying the first one and the first retina one, which didn't hold up to the march of new models very well).
I don't need a hackable portable computer. I have a full time job and a toddler. I want to turn it on at the end of the day and look at stupid cat videos. Doctorow reminds me of the people that refused to get cell phones and then complained that their friends stopped contacting them.
Also, what the hell is a "CD-ROM programmer"? Does he just mean software that was distributed on CD-ROM?
Also, if he theoretically had "a lot" of AOL shares he'd have been "bailed out" by the merger with Time Warner and would have had "a lot" of shares in the successor companies (he wouldn't be laughing, but he'd have something), but the fact that he's still using AOL as a slur is showing just how much he hasn't moved on with the times, even in 2010.
The only real criticism I have of the ipad is its annoyingly bad background support. I still IRC and the clients disconnect very quickly if I switch apps. This makes SSH annoying as well.
> rarely supported for more than 2 years.
Moreso, during those first initial 2 "supported years", you would be extremely lucky to get OS and security updates without an insane delay (unless you run a Pixel device or, maybe, a couple of others I am not aware of).
Just ask any current or former Galaxy device owner in the US regarding how long they have to wait for an update after Pixel devices have already received it. In my case (Galaxy S8+ a couple of years ago, purchased only a few months after the release), I had to wait about half a year for the OS update after it has already arrived on Pixel devices.
Moreso, during those first initial 2 "supported years", you would be extremely lucky to get OS and security updates without an insane delay (unless you run a Pixel device or, maybe, a couple of others I am not aware of).
Just ask any current or former Galaxy device owner in the US regarding how long they have to wait for an update after Pixel devices have already received it. In my case (Galaxy S8+ a couple of years ago, purchased only a few months after the release), I had to wait about half a year for the OS update after it has already arrived on Pixel devices.
Fundamentally I think the big difference between 2010 and now is not the continued rise of Apple's walled garden--which was the focus in 2010--but the steady decline of the state of the web.
Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. today dominate the web and exercise at least the same level of gatekeeping over your visibility to customers as Apple does with their app store. Back in 2010 you could build a Facebook page for your business, and post messages that your fans would see. Can't do that anymore; buy some FB ads please. Google's search results quality continues to decline, and their ads continue to be harder and harder to distinguish. And if you anger them, you might just disappear from their service.
2010 was also before Snowden, before general awareness of the data collected by social apps, before Cambridge Analytica, before a thousand data breaches. Privacy is more important to people now, and one thing about walled gardens is that they are more private... that's why the original physical walled gardens were built.
It's not that walled gardens are ideal; it's that everything has a trade-off, and those trade-offs look different in 2020 than they did in 2010.
A lot of this is not specifically about the iPad, and in retrospect maybe the most obvious reaction to this piece is to laugh at the idea that the iPad was some important place to draw a line. Tablets are still great--and used by a lot of poeple--but they ended up being kind of a side story. The iPhone was the real turning point. Not just for Apple, but for many industries.
Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc. today dominate the web and exercise at least the same level of gatekeeping over your visibility to customers as Apple does with their app store. Back in 2010 you could build a Facebook page for your business, and post messages that your fans would see. Can't do that anymore; buy some FB ads please. Google's search results quality continues to decline, and their ads continue to be harder and harder to distinguish. And if you anger them, you might just disappear from their service.
2010 was also before Snowden, before general awareness of the data collected by social apps, before Cambridge Analytica, before a thousand data breaches. Privacy is more important to people now, and one thing about walled gardens is that they are more private... that's why the original physical walled gardens were built.
It's not that walled gardens are ideal; it's that everything has a trade-off, and those trade-offs look different in 2020 than they did in 2010.
A lot of this is not specifically about the iPad, and in retrospect maybe the most obvious reaction to this piece is to laugh at the idea that the iPad was some important place to draw a line. Tablets are still great--and used by a lot of poeple--but they ended up being kind of a side story. The iPhone was the real turning point. Not just for Apple, but for many industries.
There's a lot to be said for making a computer my mother can/wants to use. And Doctorow's sneering condemnation of people describing their mother's as "not good with computers" is telling of what he thinks of those not firmly in the technorati circles he inhabits. Saying "not good with computers" != "a low opinion of that person". He's projecting.
My wife and mother are largely mystified by computers and have been brought to literal tears born of frustration when using them. One of these women is a PHD in English literature and has published over 20 books ranging from short stories for children to graduate-level textbooks. The other has a Doctorate of Dental Surgery and is clinical faculty at a respected School of Dentistry.
These women aren't dumb, but they don't give two flying fucks about a computer they lets them unscrew the casing or comes with the schematics of the circuitboards included! They're much more interested in exploring the human condition through language or practicing medicine. Between all of that they do need to check their email, shop, and keep up with their family on Facebook.
So Cory Doctorow won't buy an iPad. It's not for him/me/us/the nerds. We can buy raspberry pi's, Android devices, Linux desktops, etc... But there is a whole market of people who don't care about computers beyond what they can do for them in the most expeditious way possible. I'm not into toasters, but I use one almost every day and I don't care at all how/why it works. I've got bigger fish to fry.
This article is framed as a victory lap, but comes off more like a gear-head complaining about how shitty the Ford Escape is. Except that Ford doesn't care, because he wasn't on their radar when they made it. The people buying Escapes don't care, because they're busy with all the parts of their lives have literally nothing to do with cars.
I'm sure Doctorow's echo chamber will congratulate on sticking it to Apple (again!) with this trailblazing though-piece. And in 10 years we'll get another article about how he's still not buying iPads. It's all very boring to me.
My wife and mother are largely mystified by computers and have been brought to literal tears born of frustration when using them. One of these women is a PHD in English literature and has published over 20 books ranging from short stories for children to graduate-level textbooks. The other has a Doctorate of Dental Surgery and is clinical faculty at a respected School of Dentistry.
These women aren't dumb, but they don't give two flying fucks about a computer they lets them unscrew the casing or comes with the schematics of the circuitboards included! They're much more interested in exploring the human condition through language or practicing medicine. Between all of that they do need to check their email, shop, and keep up with their family on Facebook.
So Cory Doctorow won't buy an iPad. It's not for him/me/us/the nerds. We can buy raspberry pi's, Android devices, Linux desktops, etc... But there is a whole market of people who don't care about computers beyond what they can do for them in the most expeditious way possible. I'm not into toasters, but I use one almost every day and I don't care at all how/why it works. I've got bigger fish to fry.
This article is framed as a victory lap, but comes off more like a gear-head complaining about how shitty the Ford Escape is. Except that Ford doesn't care, because he wasn't on their radar when they made it. The people buying Escapes don't care, because they're busy with all the parts of their lives have literally nothing to do with cars.
I'm sure Doctorow's echo chamber will congratulate on sticking it to Apple (again!) with this trailblazing though-piece. And in 10 years we'll get another article about how he's still not buying iPads. It's all very boring to me.
Yep. It has literally never been easier to be a home hacker. Raspberry Pi and Arduino mean you can hack to your hearts desire on a fifty dollar budget.
I'd love to buy a non-locked down tablet. There are a lot of things I kind of half-ass do on my iPad (which is my primary mobile device), but which due to iOS restrictions don't work very well. For instance, SSH'ing into a machine from it, and then having to check a website. The SSH connection gets closed in 30 seconds. Or, you know, running a JIT language right on the machine.
The problem is nobody makes a tablet that works better than the iPad for the things I use the iPad for 90% of the time - which is reading, surfing, checking email, and editing photos.
I tried transitioning to a Linux laptop last year. That experiment lasted 3 months. It just didn't fit into a corporate computing environment that is really only set up to support Windows machines. The iPad does fit.
Back in the day, when asked about how Apple was going to deal with music piracy, Steve Jobs said they were going to out-compete it. And they did. And that's really the only way they could have succeeded. Jobs had it right. Similarly, if you want FOSS principles to rule in the mobile space, you have to come out with a product that works as well as or better than the non-open ones.
The problem is nobody makes a tablet that works better than the iPad for the things I use the iPad for 90% of the time - which is reading, surfing, checking email, and editing photos.
I tried transitioning to a Linux laptop last year. That experiment lasted 3 months. It just didn't fit into a corporate computing environment that is really only set up to support Windows machines. The iPad does fit.
Back in the day, when asked about how Apple was going to deal with music piracy, Steve Jobs said they were going to out-compete it. And they did. And that's really the only way they could have succeeded. Jobs had it right. Similarly, if you want FOSS principles to rule in the mobile space, you have to come out with a product that works as well as or better than the non-open ones.
My 1st gen ipad is still alive and ticking but completely worthless. Hardly a scratch in the case or screen and the battery is fine. I don't use it because no modern apps work on it.
I bought a 2018 model and what a piece of crap. Warped like a Pringle chip, screen shattered and cracked if you looked at it wrong.
I bought a 2018 model and what a piece of crap. Warped like a Pringle chip, screen shattered and cracked if you looked at it wrong.
same situation here, I wish there was a hack to update the OS completely, we are stuck in iOS 5 if I recall correctly.
I got six years of updates for my iPad Air, and it still works fine, albeit a little slowly and some apps are crashy now. It's hardly e-waste after 1-2 years.
There's a perfectly adequate online guide for replacing the battery yourself: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPad+Air+Wi-Fi+Battery+Replacem... Or you can pay Apple or any competent repair shop to do it for you. I haven't yet needed to replace my battery, even after six years.
There's plenty of programming environments for the iPad, including a web browser to run all the awesome web software out there.
Did it come with a BASIC interpreter preinstalled? No, but I'm OK with that.
There's a perfectly adequate online guide for replacing the battery yourself: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPad+Air+Wi-Fi+Battery+Replacem... Or you can pay Apple or any competent repair shop to do it for you. I haven't yet needed to replace my battery, even after six years.
There's plenty of programming environments for the iPad, including a web browser to run all the awesome web software out there.
Did it come with a BASIC interpreter preinstalled? No, but I'm OK with that.
> The iPad you buy today will be e-waste in a year or two (less, if you decide not to pay to have the battery changed for you). The real issue isn't the capabilities of the piece of plastic you unwrap today, but the technical and social infrastructure that accompanies it.
The duration stated is nonsense for two reasons:
Hardware support: The battery in an iOS device should last at least four years. My father's is going on seven years under light usage conditions. If the battery fails within a single year, it's defective and the included warranty covers replacement.
Software support: Apple has historically provided software support for old iPads for 5.5 to 6 years. That's longer than the support duration for many Android devices, or even some cheap Windows laptops.
The duration stated is nonsense for two reasons:
Hardware support: The battery in an iOS device should last at least four years. My father's is going on seven years under light usage conditions. If the battery fails within a single year, it's defective and the included warranty covers replacement.
Software support: Apple has historically provided software support for old iPads for 5.5 to 6 years. That's longer than the support duration for many Android devices, or even some cheap Windows laptops.
i wont buy another one because i locked myself out of my icloud and despite my ipad working fine i reset it to give to my daughter. except now it wont work without the icloud account. i went to the apple store with the device itself, and as much proof as i could muster that the original icloud email i used no longer exists.. and they kindly offered to recycle my old one (old meaning less than a year, its 128gb) and sell me a new one.
never again.
never again.
My biggest complaint with any of these mobile devices is that you can’t write any software for them, using the device itself. This is regressive and I also think it impedes the growth of technology. Maybe this is what companies like Apple want. Not a much larger pie but the largest portion of a much smaller pie.
Discussed at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1236722
I've seen alot of discontent for his writing style but only a few posts that actually attempt to rebut the fair criticisms that you are being sold a device you don't control. It's an interesting hypocracy from a site that hangs on the every word of librem but condones apple in the same day...
bold to go after apple, but also true. It's not just infantilization of hardware, but also software, culture and attention. frankly we should be fed up with the lack of any depth
It wasn't just the ipad, but the damage is already done by phones: entire generations have grown without knowning the real abilities of a computer. the internet has become a photo storage drive. people marvel at their babies knowing how to swipe, and are shocked when they are later baffled by the complexity of computer systems
It wasn't just the ipad, but the damage is already done by phones: entire generations have grown without knowning the real abilities of a computer. the internet has become a photo storage drive. people marvel at their babies knowing how to swipe, and are shocked when they are later baffled by the complexity of computer systems
Doctorow histrionically copying the entire Gibson quote is a perfect example of why he is a poor writer. He has no sense of balance.
Not only that, the Gibson quote has not aged well. Consumers are not gripping a remote control in voiceless isolated rage; they now hold globally connected handheld computers that provide access to a dizzying choice of ways to interact with others. If there's something essential in this unattractive picture that hasn't changed, this choice of quote doesn't give me confidence that either Gibson or Doctorow understands it.
I think the quote was appropriate at the time, see parallel ideas espoused by Stephenson in Interface (1994). It predates the smartphone/social media era.
ok.
Interesting how an attack of his writing style invalidates his criticisms...
The parent comment isn't saying "his writing style is bad, and that makes his points bad." It is saying "His points are bad, and the issues with his poor writing style seem to mirror the issues with the points he makes".
You can say that the parent comment doesn't explain why his points are bad, but that has been already discussed to death elsewhere in the thread. So it doesn't seem necessary to copypaste all of that in here, just to make a point about his writing style issues alone.
You can say that the parent comment doesn't explain why his points are bad, but that has been already discussed to death elsewhere in the thread. So it doesn't seem necessary to copypaste all of that in here, just to make a point about his writing style issues alone.
It's weird to read this article when there are legitimately good programming environments available on the iPad, like Pythonista 3, which is an app that lets you run python on your device.
I think the thing that he's "standing by" is that he wants to continue making waves by sounding controversial when he has in fact become irrelevant. I like and appreciate the viewpoints of those shared by BoingBoing, but perhaps something less cringeworthy? I understand folks like to build electronics, and there are systems people can build on for 30 dollars. The iPad was always meant to be a computer for someone that didn't care to screw with all of the guts of hardware or software. But yes, if you really want to use your iPad to learn about hardware and software, you can certainly do so.
And every company has the right to enforce their rules in replacement of defective parts, based upon what prior abuse or misuse you put on it. The average person who "opens" their iPad to fix it deserves to have warranties and guarantees invalidated, even if Apple is a touch predatory in the rates they change for repairs.
I think the thing that he's "standing by" is that he wants to continue making waves by sounding controversial when he has in fact become irrelevant. I like and appreciate the viewpoints of those shared by BoingBoing, but perhaps something less cringeworthy? I understand folks like to build electronics, and there are systems people can build on for 30 dollars. The iPad was always meant to be a computer for someone that didn't care to screw with all of the guts of hardware or software. But yes, if you really want to use your iPad to learn about hardware and software, you can certainly do so.
And every company has the right to enforce their rules in replacement of defective parts, based upon what prior abuse or misuse you put on it. The average person who "opens" their iPad to fix it deserves to have warranties and guarantees invalidated, even if Apple is a touch predatory in the rates they change for repairs.
Some weird stuff for him to uncritically ‘stand by’:
If you want to live in the fair world where you get to keep (or give away) the stuff you buy, the iPad isn't for you.
Seems like this is garbage.
If you want to write code for a platform where the only thing that determines whether you're going to succeed with it is whether your audience loves it, the iPad isn't for you.
This is a weird and naively idealistic statement. On what platform has this now, or ever been true? It seems like iOS is at least as close to this ideal if not better than any other platform.
I wish we lived in the world he would like us to live in, but he seems to be out of touch with reality.
If you want to live in the fair world where you get to keep (or give away) the stuff you buy, the iPad isn't for you.
Seems like this is garbage.
If you want to write code for a platform where the only thing that determines whether you're going to succeed with it is whether your audience loves it, the iPad isn't for you.
This is a weird and naively idealistic statement. On what platform has this now, or ever been true? It seems like iOS is at least as close to this ideal if not better than any other platform.
I wish we lived in the world he would like us to live in, but he seems to be out of touch with reality.
> If you want to live in the fair world where you get to keep (or give away) the stuff you buy, the iPad isn't for you.
> Seems like this is garbage.
They're called files.
> This is a weird and naively idealistic statement. On what platform has this now, or ever been true?
The web. Desktop software.
> Seems like this is garbage.
They're called files.
> This is a weird and naively idealistic statement. On what platform has this now, or ever been true?
The web. Desktop software.
You can’t be serious about the web or desktop software.
In both cases you are dealing with search engines, and VCs distorting the landscape, not to mention Google Safe browsing, etc.
In both cases you are dealing with search engines, and VCs distorting the landscape, not to mention Google Safe browsing, etc.
> This is a weird and naively idealistic statement. On what platform has this now, or ever been true?
Any computer I grew up with C64, Amiga, Atari, PC) was like this. My friends and I swapped floppy disks with stuff we made. Code, images, music. Then came dial-up mailboxes, then the web.
> It seems like iOS is at least as close to this ideal if not better than any other platform.
iOS is probably farthest away from this, actually.
Even on Android I can share some experiment with my friends and they can, after changing a single setting on their phone, install the APK I give them. Try this on iOS ...
Any computer I grew up with C64, Amiga, Atari, PC) was like this. My friends and I swapped floppy disks with stuff we made. Code, images, music. Then came dial-up mailboxes, then the web.
> It seems like iOS is at least as close to this ideal if not better than any other platform.
iOS is probably farthest away from this, actually.
Even on Android I can share some experiment with my friends and they can, after changing a single setting on their phone, install the APK I give them. Try this on iOS ...
We aren’t in the 80’s anymore. Things don’t work that way.
Nobody has made a business that has succeeded by delivering APKs outside of a store, so that proves my point.
Nobody has made a business that has succeeded by delivering APKs outside of a store, so that proves my point.
Cory Doctorow is one of the most consistently principled men you’ll ever meet. File him with Bernie Sanders or Richard Stallman where regardless if you agree with the principles they uphold, there is still a certain admirable quality to the sheer genuine consistency as to who they are and what they represent.
Reading his piece, it is easy to see that Apple hasn’t yet released an iPad Doctorow would like to buy, and I wouldn’t blame him for being who he is. He’s come to market looking for certain qualities in a tablet computer product, and found every iPad ever released to be lacking them. There’s no reason to spend money on something you’ll be unhappy with.
Reading his piece, it is easy to see that Apple hasn’t yet released an iPad Doctorow would like to buy, and I wouldn’t blame him for being who he is. He’s come to market looking for certain qualities in a tablet computer product, and found every iPad ever released to be lacking them. There’s no reason to spend money on something you’ll be unhappy with.
Sticking to your principles isn't really in-and-of-itself a virtue. History books are littered with lives destroyed by charismatic and unwaveringly principled monsters. I'd treat it as a curiosity at best.
Principles are genuinely great - I strongly respect being principled.
Principles that are not re-evaluated in context with a changing human society, are just dogma. I respect that, but I call it what it is.
Principles that are not re-evaluated in context with a changing human society, are just dogma. I respect that, but I call it what it is.
I like the way you phrased the last paragraph a lot. Thanks for pointing it out, as I have personally been struggling to articulate why some principles are not the same as others in this context, but your comment perfectly cleared it up in my head.