Is the world's best butter worth 50 dollars a pound? (2017)(saveur.com)
saveur.com
Is the world's best butter worth 50 dollars a pound? (2017)
https://www.saveur.com/worlds-best-fancy-butter/
177 comments
Memories... yes, indeed. We had one step further. We had our own cow (just one). Although the effort involved from feeding the cow (that didn’t necessarily yield much milk compare to those special breeds), milking it at 6am, collecting cream over many days was eye opening to me. I used to help churn the butter with the wooden thingy meant for it. Yes, the butter tasted amazing, partly because we felt it had to, for all the hard work gone in to it :)
Yes, churning with the wooden thingy is not fun :). I think we had a hand mixer that was mostly used for that which made life a little easy.
The only product/by-product I never liked was the buttermilk left over after churning the butter, but I guess that is an acquired taste.
The only product/by-product I never liked was the buttermilk left over after churning the butter, but I guess that is an acquired taste.
> wooden thingy
I'm surprised there isn't a unique name for that.
"The staff used in the churn is known as the dash, dasher-staff, churn-staff, churning-stick, plunger, plumper, or kirn-staff."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butter_churn#Types_of_butter_c...
I'm surprised there isn't a unique name for that.
"The staff used in the churn is known as the dash, dasher-staff, churn-staff, churning-stick, plunger, plumper, or kirn-staff."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butter_churn#Types_of_butter_c...
> buttermilk left over after churning the butter, but I guess that is an acquired taste.
My dad drinks the stuff as a special treat. It just smells like sour milk to me...
My dad drinks the stuff as a special treat. It just smells like sour milk to me...
It is, but it makes it a fresh flavor, very low-calorie. I mean yoghurt is sour too, it's not necessarily a bad thing. I drink it straight, my girlfriend uses it to bake muffins, and you can let chicken soak in it for a couple hours; if you cook it afterwards the chicken ends up deliciously tender (the enzymes in buttermilk break the chicken down a bit).
This was one of my favourite discoveries. The way it tenderizes chicken is really nice; some other methods don't feel quite right. Other enzymes I've tried have seemed to tenderize too much and perhaps in overly-localized areas at times. Maybe it's user error. Buttermilk gives you a nice, mild, consistent result though and it couldn't be much easier.
> the enzymes in buttermilk break the chicken down a bit
Am curious, is it the enzymes or the acidity? yogurt also tenderizes meat, but I always thought it was the mild acidity that does that, similar to how vinegar can also tenderize meats.
Not that it matters, as long as the job is done :)
Am curious, is it the enzymes or the acidity? yogurt also tenderizes meat, but I always thought it was the mild acidity that does that, similar to how vinegar can also tenderize meats.
Not that it matters, as long as the job is done :)
I haven't tried it raw, but buttermilk icecream is delicious and lately I have noticed a trend towards things like buttermilk-fried chickenburgers and similar foods, I've been meaning to try one.
Buttermilk you buy in the store bears little relation to the buttermilk you get from churning butter.
I don't think the buttermilk ice cream is made from teh same buttermilk that the OP is referring to. The milk leftover from the churning of butter is a kind of tangy skim milk and it can't be used to make ice cream because all of the fat has been removed to make the butter.
The buttermilk you buy in the store is basically fermented milk. It has a totally different flavor and texture. It is also delicious and you should totally make fried chickenburgers with it. You should also make biscuits, pancakes, cornbread, etc with it (assuming you eat those things) because buttermilk has an amazing flavor that's really unlike anything else.
The buttermilk you buy in the store is basically fermented milk. It has a totally different flavor and texture. It is also delicious and you should totally make fried chickenburgers with it. You should also make biscuits, pancakes, cornbread, etc with it (assuming you eat those things) because buttermilk has an amazing flavor that's really unlike anything else.
"I'm partial to cold buttermilk."
Mattie in "True Grit", after declining coffee
Mattie in "True Grit", after declining coffee
I grew up eating that. And yes I did savour the the brown residue with roti/paratha, enhanced with a bit of sugar. That's why I can never eat margarine. I do my best to buy the best quality butter from the supermarkets here in Melbourne, Australia. But that rich taste of the homemade stuff is hard to reproduce on an industrial scale, I reckon! On the other hand, I don't miss the Yoghurt from back home. I much prefer the Greek Yoghurt I get here! :)
In the US we were able to get a good yogurt culture from someone and now make it ourselves. Tastes just like from back home.
Next time you visit India, or where you're from, try to dry some yogurt and use that as the culture. I have a feeling that that might work.
Next time you visit India, or where you're from, try to dry some yogurt and use that as the culture. I have a feeling that that might work.
That's the thing. I never liked the yoghurt back home. :D I like the Greek Youghurt here a lot. But, I did enjoy Lassi. I'm from Orissa.
I came back to my hometown due to this lockdown and had the pleasure of having homemade butter again. Good heavens, it was peak gourmet if there is anything like it. The best part : I learnt how to make it.
Isn't the smell of ghee (especially when making at home) too strong?
I remember someone in the house making it and I couldn't breathe in the kitchen when it was there.
I remember someone in the house making it and I couldn't breathe in the kitchen when it was there.
I'm Indian, and I can confirm that I do not like the smell of ghee, and neither do my siblings.
In fact, if food has too much ghee in it, it can make us want to throw up! We seem to have no problem with butter itself, but the smell of ghee is just too difficult to stomach for us.
In fact, if food has too much ghee in it, it can make us want to throw up! We seem to have no problem with butter itself, but the smell of ghee is just too difficult to stomach for us.
I don't like the smell when butter is turned into ghee.
But I love ghee. In fact, after a short stint on a Keto diet, looking at the results, I now understand why ghee is essential in every meal! It makes you consume less carbs.
Because of industry propaganda blaming food fat, we have been used to low fat foods. A spoonful of ghee in every meal is not bad. You just need to get used to it.
But I love ghee. In fact, after a short stint on a Keto diet, looking at the results, I now understand why ghee is essential in every meal! It makes you consume less carbs.
Because of industry propaganda blaming food fat, we have been used to low fat foods. A spoonful of ghee in every meal is not bad. You just need to get used to it.
My grandfather loved ghee, and I'm sure it contributed to his good health in old age. As a youngster, he could even drink a cup of ghee neat!
For some reason, that same love has not been inherited by his son (my father) or his grandchildren. Strangely, however, we shared very similar tastes in everything else!
For some reason, that same love has not been inherited by his son (my father) or his grandchildren. Strangely, however, we shared very similar tastes in everything else!
As I understand it, there are a lot of strong smells (comparatively speaking) in an Indian kitchen
Even for me as an indian, it's a very strong smell.
Growing up with it doesn't always make it tolerable.
My parents never made ghee (they're ethnic tamils from Malaysia), but good lord frying fish, or making fermented shrimp paste...yuck.
My parents never made ghee (they're ethnic tamils from Malaysia), but good lord frying fish, or making fermented shrimp paste...yuck.
it's a strong smell, but I guess you love the smells you grow with.
Even now sometimes I make Ghee at home with store bought organic butter, as it's difficult to find organic ghee. Unfortunately it doesn't smell the same.
Even now sometimes I make Ghee at home with store bought organic butter, as it's difficult to find organic ghee. Unfortunately it doesn't smell the same.
We still do that. This exact same process.
you described exactly my childhood experience.. definitely a wonderful memory to cherish
> And the brown leftover,after making ghee, milk solids tasted amazing with a little sugar.
Wait, what? I love ghee but have never made it. Are you saying there's something even tastier to be found in the process of making it???
Wait, what? I love ghee but have never made it. Are you saying there's something even tastier to be found in the process of making it???
Yes. Butter solids taste a bit like baked/toasted cheese. Highly recommended.
Interesting to see this article pop up. I recently became obsessed with finding the best butter after having some on a trip to France last year, and so I rounded up a few contenders and my wife and I did a double-blind taste test. All butter was demi-sel. Results were:
Échiré though is amazing. I can't get enough of it. I honestly didn't like butter all that much before trying it, and now I use it in everything I can. There's just something about how creamy and unusually flavorful it is.
1. Échiré
2. Rodolphe Le Meunier
3. Isigny Sainte-Mère
4. Bordier (!)
5. Clover
Échiré though is amazing. I can't get enough of it. I honestly didn't like butter all that much before trying it, and now I use it in everything I can. There's just something about how creamy and unusually flavorful it is.
Even before clicking through the the article I was guessing that this was Diane's butter. Six or seven years ago when still living in the bay area I took my parents to the French Laundry when they visited and we all chuckled when the waiter brought out the butter with the bread and made a point of talking about Diane and her cows. To this day we still talk about how amazing that butter was. I can pop down the road and pick up Isigny Sainte-Mere, Echire, and a few others fresh over the channel from France and I still pine for Diane St. Clair's... (At this point I am willing to concede that this is probably less about the absolute quality than the memories linked to same, but it was amazingly good butter.)
Échiré is fantastic, if a bit steep. It's fairly easy to get in Paris, and you can find it in London if you know where to look. Bizarrely, I've only ever seen the demi sel in London.
I did a web search for "Échiré". First result was an Amazon product page at $25, second result was a gourmet food store at $8 for the same thing.
both results were for 250g (half pound) of demi sel
both results were for 250g (half pound) of demi sel
Interesting! I have had St. Clair's and would put it in the middle as a very good butter but not one that I'd go to the ends of the earth for. I like Clover a lot but my wife finds it, like Kerrygold, verging on fishy. My favorite butter of all time is from another Northern California restaurant, Manresa. Vividly yellow, clearly unpasteurized, aggressively grassy. The downside of course is that unpasteurized butter is not the safest food and probably has a shelf life of two days, so it's not like a commercial butter, no matter how perfectly produced, could taste the same.
I'm not sure these sorts of head-to-head taste tests reveal that much about how enjoyable a butter is at table. One of my favorite seafood restaurants is a small chain in Paris, Le Bar à Huitres (pretty funny to me that it's literally Oyster Bar, kind of like a steakhouse called "Steakhouse"). They have these absurd seafood platters laden with delicacies that I had never heard of like sea snails, but the sides are really interesting. Mignonette and lemon (obligatory), but also a tiny can of rillettes (?), a piece of baguette, and Bordier butter. The butter was really wasted in the context of the seafood, in my opinion.
If you like butter, one I see pretty often is just labeled "German butter". Lightly cultured and salted, very tasty. I wish I could get beurre d'Isigny on the regular, but I'm not making a special trip into the city.
I'm not sure these sorts of head-to-head taste tests reveal that much about how enjoyable a butter is at table. One of my favorite seafood restaurants is a small chain in Paris, Le Bar à Huitres (pretty funny to me that it's literally Oyster Bar, kind of like a steakhouse called "Steakhouse"). They have these absurd seafood platters laden with delicacies that I had never heard of like sea snails, but the sides are really interesting. Mignonette and lemon (obligatory), but also a tiny can of rillettes (?), a piece of baguette, and Bordier butter. The butter was really wasted in the context of the seafood, in my opinion.
If you like butter, one I see pretty often is just labeled "German butter". Lightly cultured and salted, very tasty. I wish I could get beurre d'Isigny on the regular, but I'm not making a special trip into the city.
I've never associated fishy with kerrygold, but after reading this thread a bit, I think I may have thrown out clover butter mistakingly assuming it had gone rancid. It either picks up fishy flavors very easily or develops them quickly in the fridge while other butters are just fine.
Maybe it's all subjective but I am willing to pay a premium for Kerrygold (Irish) because I read once that the cows are grass fed and am imagining the butter tastes a lot better.
It's very interesting how much the price can fluctuate in the same store (50%) so the margins are decent I suppose.
It's very interesting how much the price can fluctuate in the same store (50%) so the margins are decent I suppose.
> I read once that the cows are grass fed
I'm not ignorant to the way much livestock in the world is treated/fed/etc. and I'm aware of the US corn lobby, for example. But coming from Ireland I'm still constantly surprised at how unusual people seem to find grass-fed cattle.
"Grass-fed" isn't a term we use / recognise here, because... it's implicit. Kerrygold is the mass-produced, big-brand butter, and yes it is grass fed. Just like everything else.
That said, this makes me curious about the other listed brands. I'm assuming grass-fed is the norm (northern-?)Europe-wide, so most of the above (being French???) should also be?
I'm not ignorant to the way much livestock in the world is treated/fed/etc. and I'm aware of the US corn lobby, for example. But coming from Ireland I'm still constantly surprised at how unusual people seem to find grass-fed cattle.
"Grass-fed" isn't a term we use / recognise here, because... it's implicit. Kerrygold is the mass-produced, big-brand butter, and yes it is grass fed. Just like everything else.
That said, this makes me curious about the other listed brands. I'm assuming grass-fed is the norm (northern-?)Europe-wide, so most of the above (being French???) should also be?
Unfortunately, Israel perfected milk yield a few decades ago; at the time, Israel was something like 10 times the world average, now it’s less than five but mostly because other big producers like Denmark adopted Israeli knowledge, and the world average went up.
It does not involve hormones, but it does involve afaik a very specific feeding regime, both times and content - and the content has no grass.
The resulting milk, as you would expect, is similar to making love in a canoe.
Americans, on the other hand, perfects cheap meat yield. That involves feeding corn to cows, not grass.
A Canadian guy I met once, who grew up on a farm, said their cows were grass fed but a few weeks before slaughter, they would switch the feed to corn, because that way the meat tastes less grassy - making it excellent quality (because grass) and excellent flavor (because no grass). Wouldn’t know myself being vegetarian for a few decades now.
It does not involve hormones, but it does involve afaik a very specific feeding regime, both times and content - and the content has no grass.
The resulting milk, as you would expect, is similar to making love in a canoe.
Americans, on the other hand, perfects cheap meat yield. That involves feeding corn to cows, not grass.
A Canadian guy I met once, who grew up on a farm, said their cows were grass fed but a few weeks before slaughter, they would switch the feed to corn, because that way the meat tastes less grassy - making it excellent quality (because grass) and excellent flavor (because no grass). Wouldn’t know myself being vegetarian for a few decades now.
Question is, given this thread is somewhat focused on the "premium" niche, which country has "perfected" dairy at a broader agricultural level (rather than the focus here on individual company/brand level)
Japan seems to be generally good at doing this sort of thing (taking a premium product and trying to improve scientifically), see e.g. whisky, wagyu, etc. but as far as I've heard they primarily import dairy.
Japan seems to be generally good at doing this sort of thing (taking a premium product and trying to improve scientifically), see e.g. whisky, wagyu, etc. but as far as I've heard they primarily import dairy.
I don't know about perfection, but as an American coming from a not-particularly-dairy-country state yet loving milk and cheese, Great Britain and Ireland delighted me. When I lived there I was pleasantly surprised just how good commodity milk and cheese was, not to mention specialty sources.
And at the same time how sad most of the meat was relative to US standards.
And at the same time how sad most of the meat was relative to US standards.
I love the grassy flavor of grass-fed beef. This makes me wonder if you can do the opposite and raise the cattle on corn then finish them with grass before slaughter to get that nice mineral flavor.
I believe the term is "corn finished".
Similarly: Iberico ham -- the pigs are fed acorns several months before slaughter.
Similarly: Iberico ham -- the pigs are fed acorns several months before slaughter.
It isn't 'unusual' as in strange or objectionable. The mental picture is still of grazing cows. But a diet of corn is cheap and increases the fat content of the meat, so exclusively grassfed must be sought out.
Same in New Zealand. Pretentious restaurants print "grass fed beef" on the menu. I don't know if there are any non-grass fed cows in the entire country.
Kerrygold is my top choice, but only because it's the best tasting of the grass fed butter in my area. However, there are non-grass fed butters that taste better. I use Kerrygold when a recipe calls for a lot of butter, but when I'm putting small amounts on bread, etc., I prefer the non-grass fed options.
I always buy Kerrygold because I find that it spreads better, which is very important for an Englishman.
I’m not a butterphile, but if you find yourself near a Wegmans on the east coast, the butter boy butter is pretty outrageous.
I could probably just eat it like cheese.
I could probably just eat it like cheese.
[deleted]
I can vouch for that assessment of Clover. It has flavor, but not in a particularly pleasant way. I've had better luck with unrecognizable bargain brand premium butters.
Interesting, I felt Échiré was more or less indistinguishable from Isigny Sainte-Mère, but that Rodolphe Le Meunier was in a league of its own.
Have you tried Plugra? I love it and it’s amazing but I can’t help but I can almost feel my arteries clogging when I use it.
Butter quality varies widely around the world and within countries. The distance from very good to very poor quality butter in terms of the eating experience is incredibly large. Very good butter is unreasonably delicious and addictive, it is a completely different food product compared to the poor quality equivalent. I wouldn't pay an order of magnitude more for the world's best butter, because great butter doesn't need to cost that much, but I would definitely pay an integer factor more for excellent butter versus terrible butter.
That said, I've been able to find great butter in most ethnically European countries. It requires a bit of effort in some locales but it is usually available if you know where to look.
That said, I've been able to find great butter in most ethnically European countries. It requires a bit of effort in some locales but it is usually available if you know where to look.
Is this butter is one of those things like really high quality olive oil where its only worth it for eating in its natural state because cooking with it destroys the fine qualities that make it worth it? I love butter but haven’t managed to find anything mind blowing so went back to commodity butter because 90% of the time I cook with it.
Yes, this is typically butter that you eat directly for its own qualities. Like very good olive oil.
I save the fancy butter for eating on something bland like bread or mashed potatoes, but use the lesser (but still quality) butter for cooking. It's not that you destroy the flavor by cooking it, its delicate features are easily masked by other flavors.
To my taste, Kerrygold is genuinely better: color, flavor, texture, and quality of the Maillard reaction in fried foods.
That's most of what I get, I've picked up other butters that have the same shade and haven't been disappointed.
That's most of what I get, I've picked up other butters that have the same shade and haven't been disappointed.
Kerrygold is not expensive enough that I feel bad about using it to toast my hamburger buns. I also vouch for that, delicious (yet not incredible).
I wasn't aware it's particularly fancy, as you can get it even in discount supermarkets here (Germany) - it costs a bit more than the house brand butter but not by much (I think KG is something like €2-something for 250g).
In the USA, it's usually available at 100% markup over domestic commodity butter. Not terribly expensive, honestly, but the most expensive butter available in many supermarkets, and it's only been widely available in the last 3-5 years. And sadly I suspect the US-market Kerrygold is a slightly different formulation/recipe than I remember getting in the UK.
Maybe the OP was American, they always get a high markup on European foods (see another comment on mid-grade Danish butter).
I'm from Denmark, but emigrated at an early age to the U.S, I always hated butter until I came back to Denmark, so if you had asked me 20 years ago I would have said hell no, but now I have managed to taste some really good butters and maybe it is worth that much, just like a good cheese would be.
> if you had asked me 20 years ago I would have said hell no, but now I have managed to taste some really good butters and maybe it is worth that much, just like a good cheese would be.
I had the same thing occur with wine, I'm from California but I went to Catholic school so wine to me was this forced ritual thing that tasted horribly. I even did a short in upscale catering while paying for University and still didn't 'get' wine despite tasting what I was told was 'good wine' all the time. I like(d) aged single malt whisky and vodka.
But when I went to Italy and Croatia I learned how a cuisine can be entirely built around the seasons and that wine played a big part of its enhancement.
I've had really good butters from Switzerland while doing my apprenticeship, not sure the costs but it wouldn't surprise me if that was the rate, and despite my affinity for comparing seasonal/aged cheeses (especially with fruit) I simply couldn't tell the difference. It made logical sense for the same reason it does in cheese, the grazing and vegetation/feed pattern varies, but my palette couldn't tell the difference in finding the 'lavender and wild flower notes' these artisan guys went on about. Then again, I'm more of a olive oil person anyway, and that easily exceeds $50/liter so I understood their is a market for that and just nodded.
As a chef later in life I had the same experience as hearing the sommelier talk about 'after notes of butter scotch, and whiffs of toffy' when describing what I thought was a rather mediocre chardonnay during pre-service with food pairing once: a lot of is just branding, but I'm glad it exists as its a big part of restaurant sales. But I just shrugged it off, and never ordered it myself.
I had the same thing occur with wine, I'm from California but I went to Catholic school so wine to me was this forced ritual thing that tasted horribly. I even did a short in upscale catering while paying for University and still didn't 'get' wine despite tasting what I was told was 'good wine' all the time. I like(d) aged single malt whisky and vodka.
But when I went to Italy and Croatia I learned how a cuisine can be entirely built around the seasons and that wine played a big part of its enhancement.
I've had really good butters from Switzerland while doing my apprenticeship, not sure the costs but it wouldn't surprise me if that was the rate, and despite my affinity for comparing seasonal/aged cheeses (especially with fruit) I simply couldn't tell the difference. It made logical sense for the same reason it does in cheese, the grazing and vegetation/feed pattern varies, but my palette couldn't tell the difference in finding the 'lavender and wild flower notes' these artisan guys went on about. Then again, I'm more of a olive oil person anyway, and that easily exceeds $50/liter so I understood their is a market for that and just nodded.
As a chef later in life I had the same experience as hearing the sommelier talk about 'after notes of butter scotch, and whiffs of toffy' when describing what I thought was a rather mediocre chardonnay during pre-service with food pairing once: a lot of is just branding, but I'm glad it exists as its a big part of restaurant sales. But I just shrugged it off, and never ordered it myself.
I'm basing this of San Francisco (I haven't been anywhere else). Presuming that SF is representative for the US, then IMO: tap water, milk, butter, bread and cheese in the US isn't that great. For me those things are what I basically live off every morning. The US has other things that are up to par or better than stuff in European countries, but those 5 things aren't that great unfortunately.
US people have complained about a lot of things where I lived when it comes to food, but not those five.
US people have complained about a lot of things where I lived when it comes to food, but not those five.
Tap water in Bay Area is terrible, but that is geologically dependent. California tap water generally is the worst I have tasted anywhere in the US. Tap water in the Pacific Northwest, for example, is delicious, clean, and usually lacks any chemical flavor. It is like drinking out of an alpine spring, which is pretty close to the reality.
Cheese is a case-by-case basis, the US produces some very good and unique proper cheeses. But I would give the edge to Europe. I would also agree that the default quality of butter is higher in much of Europe, though similar quality is produced in the US if you want it.
Bread is largely done better in the US in 2020. There was a time when that was most assuredly not the case, but it seems to be consistently the case today. I spend a large part of my life in Europe and the bread quality is not what I am used to in Seattle. Similar bread experiences exist in many other parts of the US. American bread has become remarkably good over the last few decades.
Cheese is a case-by-case basis, the US produces some very good and unique proper cheeses. But I would give the edge to Europe. I would also agree that the default quality of butter is higher in much of Europe, though similar quality is produced in the US if you want it.
Bread is largely done better in the US in 2020. There was a time when that was most assuredly not the case, but it seems to be consistently the case today. I spend a large part of my life in Europe and the bread quality is not what I am used to in Seattle. Similar bread experiences exist in many other parts of the US. American bread has become remarkably good over the last few decades.
> Tap water in the Pacific Northwest
It can vary a fair bit, but I agree. Some places in the PNW get river water that is great, but then there's Portland, which draws from Bull Run, and that's really some great water right there.
For cheese produced on industrial scale, we even have a good source for that -- Tillamook cheese is pretty good.
It can vary a fair bit, but I agree. Some places in the PNW get river water that is great, but then there's Portland, which draws from Bull Run, and that's really some great water right there.
For cheese produced on industrial scale, we even have a good source for that -- Tillamook cheese is pretty good.
If we're going to talk about the quality of river water then we should let Mark Twain have his say (from Life on the Mississippi):
"...and then they got to talking about differences betwixt ...clear-water rivers and muddy-water ones. The man they called Ed said the muddy Mississippi water was wholesomer to drink than the clear water of the Ohio; he said if you let a pint of this yaller Mississippi water settle, you would have about a half to three- quarters of an inch of mud in the bottom, according to the stage of the river, and then it warn't no better than Ohio water - what you wanted to do was to keep it stirred up - and when the river was low, keep mud on hand to put in and thicken the water up the way it ought to be.
The Child of Calamity said that was so; he said there was nutritiousness in the mud, and a man that drunk Mississippi water could grow corn in his stomach if he wanted to. He says:
"You look at the graveyards; that tells the tale. Trees won't grow worth shucks in a Cincinnati graveyard, but in a Sent Louis graveyard they grow upwards of eight hundred foot high. It's all on account of the water the people drunk before they laid up. A Cincinnati corpse don't richen a soil any."
And they talked about how Ohio water didn't like to mix with Mississippi water. Ed said if you take the Mississippi on a rise when the Ohio is low, you'll find a wide band of clear water all the way down the east side of the Mississippi for a hundred mile or more, and the minute you get out a quarter of a mile from shore and pass the line, it is all thick and yaller the rest of the way across."
"...and then they got to talking about differences betwixt ...clear-water rivers and muddy-water ones. The man they called Ed said the muddy Mississippi water was wholesomer to drink than the clear water of the Ohio; he said if you let a pint of this yaller Mississippi water settle, you would have about a half to three- quarters of an inch of mud in the bottom, according to the stage of the river, and then it warn't no better than Ohio water - what you wanted to do was to keep it stirred up - and when the river was low, keep mud on hand to put in and thicken the water up the way it ought to be.
The Child of Calamity said that was so; he said there was nutritiousness in the mud, and a man that drunk Mississippi water could grow corn in his stomach if he wanted to. He says:
"You look at the graveyards; that tells the tale. Trees won't grow worth shucks in a Cincinnati graveyard, but in a Sent Louis graveyard they grow upwards of eight hundred foot high. It's all on account of the water the people drunk before they laid up. A Cincinnati corpse don't richen a soil any."
And they talked about how Ohio water didn't like to mix with Mississippi water. Ed said if you take the Mississippi on a rise when the Ohio is low, you'll find a wide band of clear water all the way down the east side of the Mississippi for a hundred mile or more, and the minute you get out a quarter of a mile from shore and pass the line, it is all thick and yaller the rest of the way across."
Worst tap water I've ever had was in Fort Worth Texas. Only time I've ever bought bottled water for taste and not convenience.
The Bay Area is a mixed bag for tap water. Some of the East Bay has great tap water, while head down to San Jose and you can only get worse by driving much farther south.
I've lived in both the PNW and the Bay Area and I can't tell the difference between the water in each location. It's great in both locations (north bay, SF proper, or peninsula). I won't speak to the south bay though
Having spent some time in Arizona, that's a place where the water quality and taste is horrible.
You bay area folks don't know how good you have it.
Having spent some time in Arizona, that's a place where the water quality and taste is horrible.
You bay area folks don't know how good you have it.
>California tap water generally is the worst I have tasted anywhere in the US
Flint, MI probably has a thing or two to say...
Flint, MI probably has a thing or two to say...
It was the lead pipes in Flint that were the problem, not really the water.
And lead actually sweetens the taste of the water...
You're conflating a lot of things with sweeping generalizations. And, I've lived in CA for 40+ years, and know where the proverbial bodies are buried.
Bread, milk, cheese, and butter vary a lot, depending on where you get it and how it was produced. If you're lazy and only go to a corporate, generic supermarket, you're likely to only be able to buy inferior products or marginally-good products at high prices. If you go to farmers' markets, specialty, independent, Italian grocers, and other quality stores, you will have much better choices of superior products.
Tap water in California ranges from acceptable to terrible. Sacramento and Davis are notoriously bad with very high mineral content (hardness). An ion exchange water softener is a luxury in some areas and essential in others. Also, a multi-stage carbon + RO filter is a requirement for drinking water anywhere due to chemicals including chloramines. Another common improvement is a whole-house carbon block filter to catch chloramines that can damage RO membranes and produce undesirable odors at all water use points.
Rice from California should be avoided because it contains arsenic from the soil composition. As I don't completely trust the coffeemaker rice cooking method, it's better to get rice that's safer to consume in the first place.
Bread, milk, cheese, and butter vary a lot, depending on where you get it and how it was produced. If you're lazy and only go to a corporate, generic supermarket, you're likely to only be able to buy inferior products or marginally-good products at high prices. If you go to farmers' markets, specialty, independent, Italian grocers, and other quality stores, you will have much better choices of superior products.
Tap water in California ranges from acceptable to terrible. Sacramento and Davis are notoriously bad with very high mineral content (hardness). An ion exchange water softener is a luxury in some areas and essential in others. Also, a multi-stage carbon + RO filter is a requirement for drinking water anywhere due to chemicals including chloramines. Another common improvement is a whole-house carbon block filter to catch chloramines that can damage RO membranes and produce undesirable odors at all water use points.
Rice from California should be avoided because it contains arsenic from the soil composition. As I don't completely trust the coffeemaker rice cooking method, it's better to get rice that's safer to consume in the first place.
The point is that "every morning" general goods are of lower quality.
i.e., the corporate, generic supermarket in Europe is better than the corporate, generic supermarket in the USA.
I think this is a reasonable assertion, but there's significant regional variation between and within countries/states.
i.e., the corporate, generic supermarket in Europe is better than the corporate, generic supermarket in the USA.
I think this is a reasonable assertion, but there's significant regional variation between and within countries/states.
Thanks for explaining my point, this is what I mean indeed. When I go to the super market and buy a random bread I can be rest assured it's of ok quality. When I go and buy a random bread in SF, I can be rest assured that it's sweet.
To get anything acceptable, I had to buy higher quality stuff in SF (like French bread or imported cheese).
To get anything acceptable, I had to buy higher quality stuff in SF (like French bread or imported cheese).
Generic supermarkets in the US often have widely varying product quality in the same store. For instance, you can buy various types of "parmesan", US made or ersatz or Kraft or whatever, probably some of it's sawdust, but every place I've been to also has genuine and expensive parmigiano reggiano, as well as US made parmesan that's aged and relatively good quality.
Even specific brands will have different prices and quality, like for example the deli/produce section often has products sold by irregular weight that are better than the standardized packages elsewhere in the store.
Even specific brands will have different prices and quality, like for example the deli/produce section often has products sold by irregular weight that are better than the standardized packages elsewhere in the store.
The tap water comment surprises me - I've found SF water to be quite good, presumably due to its (major) source in Hetch Hetchy [1]. This does not apply to other nearby cities, e.g. East Bay.
[1] https://www.kqed.org/news/11674188/hetch-hetchy-waters-epic-...
[1] https://www.kqed.org/news/11674188/hetch-hetchy-waters-epic-...
I could only drink filtered or boiled tap water when I was in the SF area. The chlorine taste is too strong.
Were you actually in SF? I moved here from Southern California, and the tap water in both apartments I've lived in has been extremely drinkable straight out of the tap. No chlorine or mineral taste at all. I'd go so far as to compare it to NYC tap water.
I was in downtown SF and also had the same experience in San Mateo. The water dispensed at the airport is also pretty vile, after a transatlantic flight when the chlorine had time to disperse it actually smells like swamp water.
I don't know then...everyone I've ever discussed it with has praised SF water. I'm really sensitive to the taste & smell of chlorine and minerals too. I don't know what could be responsible for the difference that you experienced.
A friend's place by Alamo Square had much better water than my former apartment closer to downtown.
[deleted]
I could taste too much earth in it. When I would look at some of people their own made filtering systems I'd see a lot of earth as well. The fact that you need a filtering system at all was a bit of a culture shock. I've seen exactly one family with a filtering system in my country and found it tough to taste any difference.
The only exception to this is water from the taps in Yosemite Park. That was amazing water.
The only exception to this is water from the taps in Yosemite Park. That was amazing water.
The tap water in NYC is amazing. In two of the buildings I lived in there it was also the coldest tap water I’ve ever had.
I sometimes make butter from raw milk, which available in h th he state I live in now. It is very good. Most of the time I just keep finlandia or kerrygold around. I cook with Cabot butter.
I sometimes make butter from raw milk, which available in h th he state I live in now. It is very good. Most of the time I just keep finlandia or kerrygold around. I cook with Cabot butter.
NYC's water is high quality, but the rooftop tanks that feed most faucets are not always maintained to an acceptable level of sanitation:
https://www.cityandstateny.com/articles/policy/energy-enviro...
https://www.cityandstateny.com/articles/policy/energy-enviro...
New York City is very lucky in regards to its water supply, it mostly comes from the Catskills Mountains in upstate New York. They don't even have to filter it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_water_supply_sys...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_water_supply_sys...
Bread...? Tartine, Acme, Semifreddi’s are all fantastic and highly available in SF. The Bay Area, kicked off by Chez Panisse unsurprisingly, has developed a great bread culture
If you like Tartine, you’ll probably like “the midwife and the baker”. For me, it’s a close call between the two (depends on the specific variety). You can get their stuff at some stores/farmers markets and the bakery itself in Mountain View (no storefront yet).
Manresa is good too. But I find something missing from them vs the other two bakeries (nitpicking here though).
Manresa is good too. But I find something missing from them vs the other two bakeries (nitpicking here though).
Acme's sour batard is my favorite. Never had Tartine's.
Tartine's bread is good. Their ham and cheese croissant is next level by far the best savoury baked good I have had between Europe and North America. Every time I go back to have it I question if it can live up to my expectations. Every time it knocks them out of the park. I am already doubting that it will be that good when I go back to get it again...
I love Acme's Pain au Levain. It's my go to.
Tartine's country loaf is great but its distribution is much more limited than Acme which I get at Whole Foods without a problem.
Tartine's country loaf is great but its distribution is much more limited than Acme which I get at Whole Foods without a problem.
I used to live in France and am now in the Bay Area. Here are a few products I like:
- Milk: Straus non-homogenized organic whole milk
- Butter: Kerrygold salted
- Bread: Costco walnut raisin
Have you tried these already? They're fairly easy to find and won't cost an arm and a leg. If they're not good enough, there's fancier stuff available, such as Rodolphe Le Meunier butter, or Backhaus bakery in San Mateo which makes great pains au chocolat.
Cheese is still way behind for sure. There's too much variety and catching up will take decades. Local creameries seem mostly interested in making triple crème variations and establishing their brand. I'm sure some of them will be very successful this way, but from a consumer's perspective I don't think it will work out as well quality- and cost-wise as the French model of buying unbranded cheese from a specialized shop that hand-picks their regional suppliers.
- Milk: Straus non-homogenized organic whole milk
- Butter: Kerrygold salted
- Bread: Costco walnut raisin
Have you tried these already? They're fairly easy to find and won't cost an arm and a leg. If they're not good enough, there's fancier stuff available, such as Rodolphe Le Meunier butter, or Backhaus bakery in San Mateo which makes great pains au chocolat.
Cheese is still way behind for sure. There's too much variety and catching up will take decades. Local creameries seem mostly interested in making triple crème variations and establishing their brand. I'm sure some of them will be very successful this way, but from a consumer's perspective I don't think it will work out as well quality- and cost-wise as the French model of buying unbranded cheese from a specialized shop that hand-picks their regional suppliers.
Another vote for Straus milk and Kerrygold butter. Regarding Straus, the difference between it and the second best is vast, for me. Nothing comes close.
Of the things you listed, tap water is highly variable across the US; no city or region would be representative of the rest.
>>> Presuming that SF is representative for the US, then IMO: tap water, milk, butter, bread and cheese in the US isn't that great.
For one, SF is NOT representative of the US. In fact, one of the best places food-wise.
However, of the five items you've listed, I'd agree with you on about 4.5. The SF's sourdough can compete with any sourdough, but an average village bakery in Europe beats it hands down on other varieties.
For one, SF is NOT representative of the US. In fact, one of the best places food-wise.
However, of the five items you've listed, I'd agree with you on about 4.5. The SF's sourdough can compete with any sourdough, but an average village bakery in Europe beats it hands down on other varieties.
The thing with bread in Europe is that, in many countries, you can get quite good bread at a random cafe or shop at a train station selling sandwiches. You can get extremely good bread in the US but you have to seek it out and I'm pretty sure it gets harder once you get out of major cities, especially on the coasts.
Tap water varies by location, but also significantly by season.
At least in the Northeast, the all the accumulated detritus (e.g. dog feces) from the winter gets flushed into the reservoirs in the spring, and the water districts tend to spike the chlorine levels to sterilize the higher bacterial loads.
Apart from that, in NYC, we have three main reservoir systems, each with their own cleanliness and taste. When one is being worked on, the water taste can change significantly.
At least in the Northeast, the all the accumulated detritus (e.g. dog feces) from the winter gets flushed into the reservoirs in the spring, and the water districts tend to spike the chlorine levels to sterilize the higher bacterial loads.
Apart from that, in NYC, we have three main reservoir systems, each with their own cleanliness and taste. When one is being worked on, the water taste can change significantly.
I live in Ames, IA (technically next town over now), and we have excellent tap water. To the point that someone created a website [1] to sell hats and shirts and such that just say "Ames Tap Water". It is objectively very good water.
[1] https://www.amestapwater.com/
[1] https://www.amestapwater.com/
Tap water I can see assigning a city value to but milk and butter have so much brand variation from your corner store, to big box grocer, to farmers market that I fail to see how such a city wide generalization can be accurate.
> Presuming that SF is representative for the US
It's not.
It's not.
Is it better or worse regarding those 5 items?
Many people regard SF as above average in water and bread. Water comes from Hetch Hetchy [1] and many of the regions best bakers are in SF, such as Acme [2].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Public_Utilities...
[2] http://acmebread.com/
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Public_Utilities...
[2] http://acmebread.com/
How is SF considered above average in bread? Is it due to all the golden wheat fields rolling through Silicon Valley?
I jest of course, but seriously, all regions have a ton of variety of breads and bakeries. Even tiny podunk towns you wouldn't know existed...
I jest of course, but seriously, all regions have a ton of variety of breads and bakeries. Even tiny podunk towns you wouldn't know existed...
A long history with sourdough (hence Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis, even though it didn't originate in California), and more recently a strong network of bakers and bakeries branching out from Chez Panisse starting in the 70's as noted in another comment.
Probably has to do with san francisco sourdough.
Far, far, better for bread and cheese at least. Which I suspect means you haven't found where those are? (Cheeseboard in Berkeley, Cowgirl Creamery in the Ferry Building, Acme bread, Tartine as previously mentioned - some of these closed at the moment of course)
[I'm a cheese and bread snob from Switzerland FWIW - I could be somewhat convinced that the wholewheat bread choices are not perfect though]
[I'm a cheese and bread snob from Switzerland FWIW - I could be somewhat convinced that the wholewheat bread choices are not perfect though]
Do you know of a good pumpernickel here?
On the other end of the scale, when I grew up in Korea our cheese tasted like congealed mayo with food coloring, and our "ham" was made of ground fish and flour. I didn't know the taste of an actual ham until I went to America for studying.
These days I think it's not as bad, though Korea's major beer brands are still all shit.
These days I think it's not as bad, though Korea's major beer brands are still all shit.
Interesting that they save on ham by using fish! In Germany & Austria it's the opposite, pork is super cheap and fish is expensive (they don't use ground pork to fake fish products tho).
But they save on fish by mixing it with fluor (Fischstäbchen)
I think within the next decade, the beer will become much better. It was only recently any micro-brewing started.
The US produces some truly fabulous butter but you may not have had it. Industrial economy grade butter in the US can be quite poor, I don't like that either.
That seems to be a common theme with all food in the US. The stuff normal people get in the supermarket is absolutely terrible, but there are some _artisan_ manufacturers that are actually good compared to the stuff from other countries.
Which is pretty much my point, people get exposed to the low quality of the supermarkets in the U.S and think "I don't like that stuff" and as a consequence never try for the top quality.
It is a marketing problem. I think that Alton Brown did wonders with promoting US artisanal products. On Good Eats he often pitched small high quality producers of various ingredients.
I think it’s cultural. Based on the lack of popularity of quality foods, I would say a large portion of people don’t care or can’t afford to care about cooking or high quality food.
Although, that has changed a little bit in the last decade or so with “foodies” and taking pictures of your food/cooking becoming a thing.
I remember being a kid, and going out to restaurants was not something we looked forward to as American restaurants were bland tasting with garlic (probably powdered crap) being the most exotic spice in the restaurant’s ingredients. Maybe it was different for richer people or in SF/NYC.
And I will never understand the appeal of a diner.
Although, that has changed a little bit in the last decade or so with “foodies” and taking pictures of your food/cooking becoming a thing.
I remember being a kid, and going out to restaurants was not something we looked forward to as American restaurants were bland tasting with garlic (probably powdered crap) being the most exotic spice in the restaurant’s ingredients. Maybe it was different for richer people or in SF/NYC.
And I will never understand the appeal of a diner.
Are you telling me that somewhere in America there's cheese that isn't yellow plastic?
Yes, and my father started the business making it. Look for Jason Wiebe Dairy cheese.
Of course, I'm biased. And from the US. But I sure like it.
Of course, I'm biased. And from the US. But I sure like it.
Yeah, industry grade food in the US seems to generally have worse quality than industry grade food in Europe. But if you buy expensive stuff you can find high quality food almost everywhere.
That’s the same problem we have with beer. Why can’t we make decent industrial grade beer? I don’t want to drink a triple hopped chamomile infused artisanal IPA, I just want Budweiser not to suck so bad.
Out of curiosity what is the reputation of Lurpak like in Denmark? It's top shelf butter in most mainstream supermarkets in the UK and Australia.
What? No it isn't, it's bog standard commodity butter. (UK)
It's marginally cheaper than Président, (3p/100g) and marginally more expensive than Country Life (5p/100g) on Ocado. Perhaps a better benchmark - Waitrose's own essentials one is 13p/100g cheaper, and Waitrose's 'Duchy Organic' is 1p/100g more expensive. i.e. it's in the range of everyday butters that people buy the same brand of every time because that's what they buy every time (because that's what they ...).
It's marginally cheaper than Président, (3p/100g) and marginally more expensive than Country Life (5p/100g) on Ocado. Perhaps a better benchmark - Waitrose's own essentials one is 13p/100g cheaper, and Waitrose's 'Duchy Organic' is 1p/100g more expensive. i.e. it's in the range of everyday butters that people buy the same brand of every time because that's what they buy every time (because that's what they ...).
2 stars out of 6 https://www.berlingske.dk/det-sunde-liv/test-her-er-det-beds... I guess I prefer Thise for daily butter use.
Lurpak is pretty good for supermarket butter. But at least in Aus you can easily get more artisanal butter at the local deli or whatever. Pepe Saya is popular.
I've had the same experience, but at home we usually had margarine or some other cheap butter replacement. My girlfriend insisted on getting real, salted butter and I have a newfound appreciation for it now.
I had this butter once at a restaurant not long after this article was originally published. I was excited to try it and while the color was indeed distinctive, just as the photos show, I did not notice it being noticeably better than other nice butters you get at very good restaurants (this particular one had 2 Michelin stars).
If they say it's the world's best, I'll believe them. I definitely do not have the most refined palate. I love the smell of great coffee but don't really taste the difference.
If they say it's the world's best, I'll believe them. I definitely do not have the most refined palate. I love the smell of great coffee but don't really taste the difference.
Getting the experience of tasting the best butter in the WORLD for 50 dollars/pound? Of course.
Would I be having it every day? Of course not.
Would I be having it every day? Of course not.
A related read about how an Irish Dairy company conquered the discerning butter segment:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-10-02/how-irish...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-10-02/how-irish...
We need double blind studies to see if it is. My prediction: nobody will be able to tell if it's $50 or $5 a pound, same as most people can't tell if they're drinking red wine or white wine with red food coloring, or tell apart an audiophile speaker cable and a wire coat hanger.
> We need double blind studies to see if it is.
See my comment elsewhere in the thread; my wife and I did this (sample size of 2, but still...) There's definitely a difference between supermarket butter and "premium" butter — whether that's worth $50 is a matter of debate. I think the difference between butter brands is much more pronounced than differences between wine though.
See my comment elsewhere in the thread; my wife and I did this (sample size of 2, but still...) There's definitely a difference between supermarket butter and "premium" butter — whether that's worth $50 is a matter of debate. I think the difference between butter brands is much more pronounced than differences between wine though.
I watch a YouTube series where experts compare two of the things that they're an expert in. (Food/drink wise, that is.) They then have to pick which is more expensive.
They virtually always get it right. Though I think the trick is in the formulation; it's not "is this thing $50 or $5," it's "which of these two is the expensive one?" Several episodes, the person says something like "I actually think this one is better, but I know that it's the cheaper one." I think one, if I recall, was mint chocolate chip ice cream. "This is the cheap one but it tastes like what you're imagining when I say "mint chocolate chip ice cream," this other one has higher quality ingredients but you may actually prefer the iconic one."
They virtually always get it right. Though I think the trick is in the formulation; it's not "is this thing $50 or $5," it's "which of these two is the expensive one?" Several episodes, the person says something like "I actually think this one is better, but I know that it's the cheaper one." I think one, if I recall, was mint chocolate chip ice cream. "This is the cheap one but it tastes like what you're imagining when I say "mint chocolate chip ice cream," this other one has higher quality ingredients but you may actually prefer the iconic one."
Have you tried higher quality butters? The difference is palpable, and can be easily picked out by uneducated palates under blind conditions.
Whether this butter is that noticeably different to other super high grade butters I wouldn't know, but I've frequently run into people who treat butter as some undifferentiated fat, which seems generally to be due to lack of exposure to the real thing.
Whether this butter is that noticeably different to other super high grade butters I wouldn't know, but I've frequently run into people who treat butter as some undifferentiated fat, which seems generally to be due to lack of exposure to the real thing.
I can taste and smell a difference between grass fed beef butter and cow feed (mixture of hay and corn usually). I've done so in blind tests before.
My favorite butters are French cultured butters and I prefer salted over unsalted. The tanginess you get from culture elevates the taste of butter to a whole other level.
My favorite butters are French cultured butters and I prefer salted over unsalted. The tanginess you get from culture elevates the taste of butter to a whole other level.
I may be able to make a difference on butter (I used to manufacture my own dairy, my grandparents had a small cow farm), but I can distinguish wine. Nobody can distinguish audio by the type of cable unless you use a defective or extremely thin cable, so the wire coat hanger test is not needed.
Don’t you think an audiophile is going to claim that they can tell between cables but might not believe anybody can tell wines apart?
There is a difference though. Some people really can taste wine blind and tell you, for example, what grape was used and where it was grown. A relative of mine with this skill used to win wine tasting competitions. But nobody can distinguish expensive speaker cables in blind trials.
I'm for buying slightly more expensive butter if that would incentivize breeding cows for milk rather than meat. Butter still being more of a small treat than main source of fats.
In case you didn't know:
https://sentientmedia.org/dairy-is-cruel/
https://sentientmedia.org/dairy-is-cruel/
And living on a dairy farm, growing up in the dairy industry... I can tell you that I have yet to see a "dairy is cruel" article that gets the facts right. I suppose it's more "cruel" then just turning a cow loose on a huge pasture and letting it live it's life, except for predators, illness, drought, poor diet causing intestinal distress, etc that doesn't happen on a dairy farm.
Yes, the problem started when humans decided to domesticate animals during the agricultural revolution. Since then all farm animals exist because we bring them into existence for our convenience.
All sentient beings should have at least one right: the right not to be treated as property.
If we took animals seriously, we would stop treating them as our resources, as our property. But that would mean an end to bringing nonhumans into existence so that we can use them for food, clothing, vivisection, or any other purpose.
It's been scientifically proven that we don't need animal products to be healthy, so humans are basically exploiting animals for no better reason than palate pleasure. And to top it off animal agriculture is having a horrific impact on the environment.
We can live without participating in the exploitation of the vulnerable.
We can live without destroying the environment.
We can live in a way that guarantees a more healthy life.
All sentient beings should have at least one right: the right not to be treated as property.
If we took animals seriously, we would stop treating them as our resources, as our property. But that would mean an end to bringing nonhumans into existence so that we can use them for food, clothing, vivisection, or any other purpose.
It's been scientifically proven that we don't need animal products to be healthy, so humans are basically exploiting animals for no better reason than palate pleasure. And to top it off animal agriculture is having a horrific impact on the environment.
We can live without participating in the exploitation of the vulnerable.
We can live without destroying the environment.
We can live in a way that guarantees a more healthy life.
For anyone living in Canada (which has a serious lack of quality dairy products), I'd heartily recommend Emerald Grasslands butter. It's superb. Grass fed, Jersey cows, fantastic flavour.
I would definitely try it once if I could get my hands on a pound.
I have been cooking more with the lockdown.
I have been cooking more with the lockdown.
Relevant SMBC https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/milk
> Let it sit out until it smells like dead feet
I watched some cooking show on Netflix a few years ago where someone mentioned good cheese smelling like "the feet of God."
Odd thing is, when I trim my toenails these days, they do definitely have some sort of cheddar smell to them.
I guess it makes sense in a way...
I watched some cooking show on Netflix a few years ago where someone mentioned good cheese smelling like "the feet of God."
Odd thing is, when I trim my toenails these days, they do definitely have some sort of cheddar smell to them.
I guess it makes sense in a way...
[deleted]
"Dandelion-yellow and uncommonly expensive, St. Clair's butter is served at Thomas Keller's restaurants and is only available once a year to consumers."
On the one hand, reading about this article makes me drool.
On the other, it generates such bullshit highbrow scarcity that it makes me hate haute cuisine.
....I'll take my my first world problem.
On the one hand, reading about this article makes me drool.
On the other, it generates such bullshit highbrow scarcity that it makes me hate haute cuisine.
....I'll take my my first world problem.
"No, it isn't."
There ya go.
There ya go.
Why not just hydroponically grow excellent grass feed at scale for milk cows for making good butter and destroy that market?
It seems like a problem that can be cracked with comparative plant tissue analysis and replicated by proper plant lighting and nutrition schedules.
It seems like a problem that can be cracked with comparative plant tissue analysis and replicated by proper plant lighting and nutrition schedules.
Or just let cows graze in fields? You don't even need to harvest the grass then.
Thus begins the decline of hacker news into mainstream clickbait. Mark my words.
It’s time for another Erlang purge.
How did that work last time? I'd suggest a different topic anyway, like GC algorithms or binary exploitation.
Alternatively, consider plant based butter if you're concerned about climate change and don't want to support industrial animal farming (i.e. same reasoning behind plant based burgers which seem popular on here: make the product directly from plants instead of inefficiently feeding plants to cows first):
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225411135_Comparati...
> The margarine products analysed here are more environmentally favourable than the butter products. In all three markets (UK, DE and FR) the margarine products are significantly better than the butter products for the categories global warming potential,eutrophication potential and acidification potential
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/225411135_Comparati...
> The margarine products analysed here are more environmentally favourable than the butter products. In all three markets (UK, DE and FR) the margarine products are significantly better than the butter products for the categories global warming potential,eutrophication potential and acidification potential
Thanks for a great comment. Some good plant-based spreads:
https://www.naturli-foods.com/products/spreadable/ https://earthbalancenatural.com/spreads/original-buttery-spr... https://miyokos.com/collections/vegan-butter https://purefreefrom.co.uk/products/
Miyokos plant-based cheese is unbelievable, but still only available in the US.
https://www.naturli-foods.com/products/spreadable/ https://earthbalancenatural.com/spreads/original-buttery-spr... https://miyokos.com/collections/vegan-butter https://purefreefrom.co.uk/products/
Miyokos plant-based cheese is unbelievable, but still only available in the US.
Margarine tastes like shit. If you want some plant based fats for spreading - just make mayo. Takes 5 minutes.
Mayo has egg
Doesn't need to. Veganaise tastes pretty good - I genuinely can't tell the difference.
ah but he said mayo. its a protected term and must have egg!
Fun story about this: http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2017/08/when-mayo-is-not-manyon...
It was collected, and after several weeks worth had accumulated, yogurt was used to ferment it for a few days and then churned to make white homemade butter. It tasted divine with a little salt and pepper on bread.
Of course, a lot of that butter was used to make Ghee, whose delicious smell permeated the whole home.
And the brown leftover,after making ghee, milk solids tasted amazing with a little sugar.
Ah, the memories...