eBay removing Raspberry Pi listings as they “encourage infringement”(twitter.com)
twitter.com
eBay removing Raspberry Pi listings as they “encourage infringement”
https://twitter.com/lbhq/status/1323482627681198080
303 comments
They also sell HDMI capture cards and HDMI splitters that can remove HDCP. As if those aren't encouraging infringement.
Not every splitter can remove HDCP. Only some. It's a real problem because right now I am trying to get a PS3 going again. I've established that the HDMI port isn't burnt out because I am able to get it to show an initial screen but not past that point. I have a new splitter on the way, hope this one works before I test other things out. I'm pretty sure the issue is the HDCP is malfunctioning or is corrupted because I hot-plugged the HDMI cable while the unit was turned on. I also notice an interesting symptom, on my monitor when I attempt to get the PS3 going and then switch over to the computer, if I play something that requires HDCP the monitor will flash a brightly coloured static snow pattern before continuing to play. This doesn't happen if the PC and monitor have been powered down. So whatever is wrong with the PS3's HDCP is definitely leaking out into the monitor temporarily.
HDCP is awful. Thanks Intel.
HDCP is awful. Thanks Intel.
[deleted]
Which ones? So I know to avoid them.
I believe ones with 'hdcp bypass' are the ones you should stay away from https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m...
Oh thanks. I was worried I might break a law or two there. To be super careful, I'll leave a comment to save the warning.
You can also favorite[1] HN comments by clicking on the timestamp first.
1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24351073
1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24351073
Any HDMI splitter. The "Content Protection" encryption on the wire for the digital video doesn't allow the stream to be split; to do so requires stripping off the encryption in a way not licensed by the industry consortium.
I'm pretty sure compliant splitters are expected to decrypt, split, then reencrypt. What a waste of resources.
Nah, it's okay to split an HDCP encrypted stream as long as you enforce HDCP on the outputs as well.
I think the standard allows for something like 32 endpoints.
I think the standard allows for something like 32 endpoints.
Aren't there non-HDCP splitters around that only allow unprotected content through? (I don't know, but I had thought so)
Daily reminder that HDCP is a crime against physical layer conventions. It’s an Orwellian theft of data. Those bits on the line are my bits.
Legally, that depends on what the source is. Realistically I'm with you and I will capture whatever I want that is in my stream and they can't stop me.
TIL we don't buy devices, we rent them indefinitely.
“Can be used for infringement” is not the same thing as “encourages infringement” why does everyone make these bad faith comparisons.
How does a raspberry pi encourage infringement more than a regular desktop pc?
They are cheap enough that you can buy one and setup a dedicated machine to play old video games.
I bought my first two RPis from Little Bird, the company whose tweet is linked (albeit through one of their web stores, not via ebay). Those were an original RPi model B, now sadly retired (it still works, just is very slow even for running basic services), and a 3B+, now faithfully serving as a PiHole and HomeBridge machine.
I have a surprising number of RPis around the apartment now; a PiZero with the HQ camera module is serving as a webcam for my desktop machine, and another one is acting as an “on air” indicator to let folks know when a microphone is hot in the room (typically working-from-home zoom meetings). And another zero is controlling a set of “presence” indicator lights, watching bluetooth to determine who is in the apartment at any given time. That makes it so that if one of us is leaving the apartment, we can easily tell whether we need to lock the door on our way out, without needing to go searching through the apartment to check whether another flatmate is home or not. (I found that for us, testing bluetooth was far faster and more reliable than testing arp, wifi, bonjour, geofencing, or etc)
... and I’ve just ordered a moderately large e-paper display which is destined to be mounted with a zero inside a picture frame and hung from the wall like a photo. Haven’t decided exactly what to show on it yet; probably will show a weather forecast and how long until the next tram will arrive at the stop outside our building. That kind of thing.
Plus, of course, the pi 4 that I just use as a generic linux box for my own amusement. These little projects have been such fun little creative outlets; I’ve very much enjoyed coming up with and implementing them over the past few years!
I have a surprising number of RPis around the apartment now; a PiZero with the HQ camera module is serving as a webcam for my desktop machine, and another one is acting as an “on air” indicator to let folks know when a microphone is hot in the room (typically working-from-home zoom meetings). And another zero is controlling a set of “presence” indicator lights, watching bluetooth to determine who is in the apartment at any given time. That makes it so that if one of us is leaving the apartment, we can easily tell whether we need to lock the door on our way out, without needing to go searching through the apartment to check whether another flatmate is home or not. (I found that for us, testing bluetooth was far faster and more reliable than testing arp, wifi, bonjour, geofencing, or etc)
... and I’ve just ordered a moderately large e-paper display which is destined to be mounted with a zero inside a picture frame and hung from the wall like a photo. Haven’t decided exactly what to show on it yet; probably will show a weather forecast and how long until the next tram will arrive at the stop outside our building. That kind of thing.
Plus, of course, the pi 4 that I just use as a generic linux box for my own amusement. These little projects have been such fun little creative outlets; I’ve very much enjoyed coming up with and implementing them over the past few years!
I bought my first RPi six months ago, and now I have four (two 4s, two zeros), and six arduinos.
My uses are all brutally utilitarian.
One pi 4 is openhab, grafana, mqtt broker etc., and the other is doing all the network gumph - vpns, qos, Wi-Fi ap, Bluetooth presence, LoRa. One zero is a controller in a micro hydro system I’m building, the other runs a couple of remote cameras.
The arduinos are being used in a lora sensor network, using dinky batteries and solar panels - they’re so low power it’s ridiculous - most of them using ultrasonic rangefinders to measure depth in tanks (water, gasoline) and monitor river levels here and upstream - we live in a mill, so being able to see the delta-h will hopefully save us from a surprise flood this winter. The government operated river gauges were all destroyed in the floods last year, and haven’t yet been replaced. I’m managing to build serviceable river gauges for under €100 a pop - I might have to see if they’re interested, as I think their issue is money - they use these big mechanical gauges that I can’t see being cheap.
Another arduino is a weather station, and the last one for now is controlling a valve way, way uphill that I got bored of walking to.
Over the winter I intend to build out a heap of arduino/lora irrigation control valves, and am toying with sapping a tiny amount of energy from the water with an impeller to power the things - my ultimate aim here is to automate everything that reasonably can be, so we have more time to do the things that can’t be.
Also, damn, it’s fun to be tinkering again - 15 years of working in tech kinda killed my passion for playing with tech, but it turns out it’s still there.
My uses are all brutally utilitarian.
One pi 4 is openhab, grafana, mqtt broker etc., and the other is doing all the network gumph - vpns, qos, Wi-Fi ap, Bluetooth presence, LoRa. One zero is a controller in a micro hydro system I’m building, the other runs a couple of remote cameras.
The arduinos are being used in a lora sensor network, using dinky batteries and solar panels - they’re so low power it’s ridiculous - most of them using ultrasonic rangefinders to measure depth in tanks (water, gasoline) and monitor river levels here and upstream - we live in a mill, so being able to see the delta-h will hopefully save us from a surprise flood this winter. The government operated river gauges were all destroyed in the floods last year, and haven’t yet been replaced. I’m managing to build serviceable river gauges for under €100 a pop - I might have to see if they’re interested, as I think their issue is money - they use these big mechanical gauges that I can’t see being cheap.
Another arduino is a weather station, and the last one for now is controlling a valve way, way uphill that I got bored of walking to.
Over the winter I intend to build out a heap of arduino/lora irrigation control valves, and am toying with sapping a tiny amount of energy from the water with an impeller to power the things - my ultimate aim here is to automate everything that reasonably can be, so we have more time to do the things that can’t be.
Also, damn, it’s fun to be tinkering again - 15 years of working in tech kinda killed my passion for playing with tech, but it turns out it’s still there.
I have a problem which requires automated valve control — too many times a sprinkler failure has led to days of leaks before being noticed, so
1) I don’t want the water feed to the irrigation on when the sprinklers are not supposed to be running, and
2) I want a daily report on how many gallons went out that pipe to detect if something has changed.
The issue I’m running into is all the motorized ball valves or solenoids for 3/4” water pipes seam to be total junk.
Any suggestion for sourcing a decent motorized valve?
1) I don’t want the water feed to the irrigation on when the sprinklers are not supposed to be running, and
2) I want a daily report on how many gallons went out that pipe to detect if something has changed.
The issue I’m running into is all the motorized ball valves or solenoids for 3/4” water pipes seam to be total junk.
Any suggestion for sourcing a decent motorized valve?
For the one I have set up now, it’s just a standard valve on 1.25” tubing and I’ve hooked a cheap rotary solenoid up in place of the handle. Belt and braces but works reliably.
Flow meters I can’t yet comment on - haven’t yet played around with anything - although it’s easy enough to take lps data and integrate that in grafana or whatever for reporting - I’m currently doing so for our PV system, watts in and out etc.
Flow meters I can’t yet comment on - haven’t yet played around with anything - although it’s easy enough to take lps data and integrate that in grafana or whatever for reporting - I’m currently doing so for our PV system, watts in and out etc.
That’s pretty amazing, how you can build solutions “on the spot” (instead of buying something off the shelves) how did get started with tinkering?
As a kid, with analogue electronics, and microcomputers. I did little to none between ‘04 and last year, when I moved off grid and got back into “gear” while installing a PV system, and got the first RPi all of six months ago because my NAS wasn’t up to running openhab - and haven’t looked back. The arduino stuff has been “buy the bits and put them together”, although some of the bits have been a bare PCB and a bunch of components. So far it’s almost paint by numbers, to be honest - I’m combining things in a somewhat novel way, but the components are all existing solutions to one degree or another.
Would be great if you could post some links to some of your sources/suppliers, I'm thinking of setting up something similar.
It’s great you got to learn as a kid. I got a class on electricity with a simple board, that was it. But that’s why I love the Pi and similar, they allow you to tinker.
> one is acting as an “on air” indicator to let folks know when a microphone is hot in the room (typically working-from-home zoom meetings).
How did you achieve this? I'd be very interested in setting something like this up for myself... Thanks.
How did you achieve this? I'd be very interested in setting something like this up for myself... Thanks.
This was a little bit of a cheat.
It just so happens that the computer being used for the Zoom calls is a Mac, so I just wrote a program that runs in the background on the Mac and asks the OS about whether any microphone devices are in use by any programs, and then sends a message to the Pi, which really is only turning a hat of LEDs on/off based on UDP packets it receives. It could be turning the indicator on/off for anything that somebody else told it to do it for.
(Originally, I was using an Arduino Nano and a USB serial interface for communication, but my flatmate rewrote it to go over UDP to a Pi Zero W, as he wanted to use a particular RPi hat as the indicator lights)
Detecting the microphone on/off status on OS X was shamelessly ripped off from the answer to this StackExchange question: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37470201/how-can-i-tell-.... I don’t know if there’s a similar approach that would work for Windows or other OSes.
It just so happens that the computer being used for the Zoom calls is a Mac, so I just wrote a program that runs in the background on the Mac and asks the OS about whether any microphone devices are in use by any programs, and then sends a message to the Pi, which really is only turning a hat of LEDs on/off based on UDP packets it receives. It could be turning the indicator on/off for anything that somebody else told it to do it for.
(Originally, I was using an Arduino Nano and a USB serial interface for communication, but my flatmate rewrote it to go over UDP to a Pi Zero W, as he wanted to use a particular RPi hat as the indicator lights)
Detecting the microphone on/off status on OS X was shamelessly ripped off from the answer to this StackExchange question: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37470201/how-can-i-tell-.... I don’t know if there’s a similar approach that would work for Windows or other OSes.
Eh, I wouldn’t call that a cheat. Most of my home brew IoT devices are controlled by Home Assistant via MQTT which pretty much falls in the same category.
On Linux it should be possible to see if something is recording through PulseAudio using its command line tools, and ALSA/OSS use could be detected with lsof.
Isn't a Pi Zero stupendous overkill for something like that? You could build that whole thing for under 10 dollars with an ESP8266.
Awesome! That's exactly what I've wanted for the last 5 years.
Not OP but if you are willing to run HomeAssistant, I built a zoom integration [0] that uses web hook events from Zoom to tell HA when you are “busy”. This triggers anytime my calendar shows I’m supposed to be in a meeting, whether I am or not. But the HA Mac app also provides sensors for your mic and video so you could combine the three sources however it made sense to achieve this
[0]: https://github.com/raman325/ha-zoom-automation
[0]: https://github.com/raman325/ha-zoom-automation
> and I’ve just ordered a moderately large e-paper display which is destined to be mounted with a zero inside a picture frame and hung from the wall like a photo
Which display, if you don’t mind me asking? I’ve had a similar idea for a while, but haven’t seen a display that felt reasonably sized or priced for a hobby project
Which display, if you don’t mind me asking? I’ve had a similar idea for a while, but haven’t seen a display that felt reasonably sized or priced for a hobby project
I ordered this one:
https://www.waveshare.com/product/raspberry-pi/displays/e-pa...
It’s the same size as the screen on most Kindle devices; 12cm by 9cm.
So it’s not large except in comparison to most e-paper displays out there, which seem to most often come in at 6cm by 3cm or smaller. And it’s not exactly cheap by any stretch of the imagination, but for me it was at the ‘sweet spot’ between size and cost, as stuff bigger than this gets expensive fast.
Note that I haven’t actually received the display yet and can’t vouch for its quality or usability. But for what it’s worth, that’s the one I ordered.
https://www.waveshare.com/product/raspberry-pi/displays/e-pa...
It’s the same size as the screen on most Kindle devices; 12cm by 9cm.
So it’s not large except in comparison to most e-paper displays out there, which seem to most often come in at 6cm by 3cm or smaller. And it’s not exactly cheap by any stretch of the imagination, but for me it was at the ‘sweet spot’ between size and cost, as stuff bigger than this gets expensive fast.
Note that I haven’t actually received the display yet and can’t vouch for its quality or usability. But for what it’s worth, that’s the one I ordered.
How do you plan to power this one, if it's hung on the wall?
Initially, I’m going to try to use a power cable in a color that matches the wall. The spot I have in mind is above some knee-high shelves, so I’d probably only need to run the cable for half a meter before it vanishes behind them. Hopefully it shouldn’t be too jarringly visible! As I’m renting the apartment, I can’t really poke holes in the walls to hide cables (sadly).
Alternately, there are some other shelves of a more normal height that I could just set it on top of; the power cable would be much less visible that way.
But I do like the idea of having it on a wall. As you say, the trick is going to be working out how to camouflage the cable.
Alternately, there are some other shelves of a more normal height that I could just set it on top of; the power cable would be much less visible that way.
But I do like the idea of having it on a wall. As you say, the trick is going to be working out how to camouflage the cable.
> I can’t really poke holes in the walls to hide cables (sadly).
I don't know if you've tried and hated it or not, but spackling is surprisingly easy, and most landlords will provide you with matching paint (either free or at cost, depending on your landlord and probably the amount you need). You can patch probably a dozen holes in an hour (only counting active time, not time spent drying) including painting.
It's not fun, but I've resorted to it because spackling nail holes is extremely easy compared to fixing the carnage left behind when one of those "won't mess up your wall" patches doesn't come off cleanly.
It's also worth checking whether "normal wear and tear" is the tenant's responsibility or the landlord's responsibility in your jurisdiction. When I was in SF and looked, it seemed to be largely on the landlord, so they were not allowed to charge for repairing holes considered "normal wear and tear" (which hanging pictures and the like generally was). My readings said the only time you were responsible for them is if there were an excessive number (though excessive wasn't quantified).
I don't know if you've tried and hated it or not, but spackling is surprisingly easy, and most landlords will provide you with matching paint (either free or at cost, depending on your landlord and probably the amount you need). You can patch probably a dozen holes in an hour (only counting active time, not time spent drying) including painting.
It's not fun, but I've resorted to it because spackling nail holes is extremely easy compared to fixing the carnage left behind when one of those "won't mess up your wall" patches doesn't come off cleanly.
It's also worth checking whether "normal wear and tear" is the tenant's responsibility or the landlord's responsibility in your jurisdiction. When I was in SF and looked, it seemed to be largely on the landlord, so they were not allowed to charge for repairing holes considered "normal wear and tear" (which hanging pictures and the like generally was). My readings said the only time you were responsible for them is if there were an excessive number (though excessive wasn't quantified).
Maybe something like these would do (flat adhesive "speaker" cables):
https://www.cableorganizer.com/p/taperwire-flat-speaker-cabl...
https://www.cableorganizer.com/p/taperwire-flat-speaker-cabl...
You could try tacking some appropriate matching poster board over the wall under it.
This!
We need super-long-life batteries. One day ...
We need super-long-life batteries. One day ...
If you don't refresh it too often you could run the display for about a week from a 10000mAh powerbank. Of course then you would need to run it from a microcontroller instead of the rather power-hungry Pi.
It's doable today, just not convenient.
It's doable today, just not convenient.
Actually yes - I have a small display that I haven't used for a couple of months and the image is still there. I was thinking about how it would be with a daily refresh.
> PiZero with the HQ camera module is serving as a webcam for my desktop machine
How did you set that up? I wanted to do that for some time now
How did you set that up? I wanted to do that for some time now
walrus01 pointed out the original DIY methods, but there’s a pre-built especially nice implementation over here:
https://github.com/showmewebcam/showmewebcam
It boots up much faster and mounts the filesystem read-only so you don’t have to worry about unplugging the pi and accidentally corrupting the file system or anything like that. I’m currently using this one.
https://github.com/showmewebcam/showmewebcam
It boots up much faster and mounts the filesystem read-only so you don’t have to worry about unplugging the pi and accidentally corrupting the file system or anything like that. I’m currently using this one.
Cool stuff, check out the ESP32 if you want to get smaller.
ESP32 is one of the Arduino-compatible boards, right?
I keep bouncing off Arduino stuff just because I find their IDE to be astonishingly awful (at least on Linux, running inside a dwm window manager)
I’d be 100% on board if I could write the code in vim and ideally compile/upload from the command line. Maybe a nice makefile. And I did set that up for a few arduino devices in the past, but it was just too much jumping through hoops for me to really bother with longterm. Much easier to just grab a RPi Zero and install a compiler or python on it and then just code directly on the device, over ssh.
If there’s a better approach to handle the coding side of things than the standard Arduino IDE, I’d be super interested to learn about it!
I keep bouncing off Arduino stuff just because I find their IDE to be astonishingly awful (at least on Linux, running inside a dwm window manager)
I’d be 100% on board if I could write the code in vim and ideally compile/upload from the command line. Maybe a nice makefile. And I did set that up for a few arduino devices in the past, but it was just too much jumping through hoops for me to really bother with longterm. Much easier to just grab a RPi Zero and install a compiler or python on it and then just code directly on the device, over ssh.
If there’s a better approach to handle the coding side of things than the standard Arduino IDE, I’d be super interested to learn about it!
> ESP32 is one of the Arduino-compatible boards, right?
Yes. The ESP8266 is too. I drive several of both chips through Arduino or ESPHome. I’m no programmer but have been very pleased by what I could achieve through the Arduino IDE (on a Mac).
Yes. The ESP8266 is too. I drive several of both chips through Arduino or ESPHome. I’m no programmer but have been very pleased by what I could achieve through the Arduino IDE (on a Mac).
Esp32 has its own framework/runtime but you can flash it using arduino framework. Have you checked out the platformio cli?
I run MicroPython on a half dozen of my ESPs.
Being able to drop into REPL and rewrite it is a super power. And while MicroPython doesn't tend to come with every library that Python does, you can generally install them via pip.
Being able to drop into REPL and rewrite it is a super power. And while MicroPython doesn't tend to come with every library that Python does, you can generally install them via pip.
How fast is it? I'm curious because I've been debating trying it out for some relatively simple stuff with GPIO pins and MQTT (largely just reading some sensors, enabling/disabling some other pins based on those sensors, and submitting telemetry via MQTT). MicroPython seems a lot faster to get up and running with, but I'm concerned that on such a small device that it'll be prohibitive (but I'm also coming from a server background, so I may be overestimating how much slower these are).
It isn't slow. If all you're doing is reading, then the overhead will be pretty much the same as if you were using the Espressif SDK, because you'll find the bottleneck is I/O, not the extras that MicroPython provides.
A cold boot is slower, and takes a couple seconds, but after that most of the latency is comparable to if you were doing it with the SDK.
MicroPython is heavily optimised, and doesn't supply a lot of the mutable madness that makes CPython so slow. (For example, a for loop in CPython is slower than a list expression. In MicroPython, they're the same speed.)
A cold boot is slower, and takes a couple seconds, but after that most of the latency is comparable to if you were doing it with the SDK.
MicroPython is heavily optimised, and doesn't supply a lot of the mutable madness that makes CPython so slow. (For example, a for loop in CPython is slower than a list expression. In MicroPython, they're the same speed.)
You can try this for vim:
https://github.com/stevearc/vim-arduino
Back in the day (about four years ago) I used a similar setup with with Sublime Text and an Arduino plugin.
For a more official alternative there's also the new (electron based) Arduino Pro IDE: https://www.arduino.cc/pro/arduino-pro-ide
Back in the day (about four years ago) I used a similar setup with with Sublime Text and an Arduino plugin.
For a more official alternative there's also the new (electron based) Arduino Pro IDE: https://www.arduino.cc/pro/arduino-pro-ide
Oh, cool! Now I know what I’m playing with tonight. :D
ESP32 is arduino compatible but you don't have to use arduino. You could just use Espressif's own toolchain, which is all command line.
Or you could try other boards such as STM32.
Or you could try other boards such as STM32.
> I keep bouncing off Arduino stuff just because I find their IDE to be astonishingly awful (at least on Linux, running inside a dwm window manager)
Please check out platformio. It made a whole world of difference to me.
Please check out platformio. It made a whole world of difference to me.
Worth to mention that platformio is VSCode plugin.
Think you are doing platformio a disservice here. It has a VSCode plugin available but there is also a standalone set of commandline tools that are editor/IDE agnostic.
The main thing is, but it just shells out to its CLI (named PlatformIO Core). Nothing is stopping you from using with another IDE, and they even have automated tools to set them up for you: https://docs.platformio.org/en/latest/integration/ide/index....
Yeah it's not just you - Arduino's IDE is astonishingly awful. But ESP32 isn't really anything to do with Arduino, other than the fact that Arduino supports some boards that use it. You can program the ESP32 in whatever IDE you like.
By the way if you are looking for something like Arduino but less awful, Mbed is the most promising option. Their boards and API have been far superior for years, but unfortunately they relied on a mediocre online IDE. However they have finally seen the error of their ways and have a proper offline IDE, based on Theia, which is based on VSCode.
https://os.mbed.com/studio/
By the way if you are looking for something like Arduino but less awful, Mbed is the most promising option. Their boards and API have been far superior for years, but unfortunately they relied on a mediocre online IDE. However they have finally seen the error of their ways and have a proper offline IDE, based on Theia, which is based on VSCode.
https://os.mbed.com/studio/
They have their own first party OS/SDK - ESP-IDF, which imho is far nicer to work with directly than Arduino or PlatformIO (PlatformIO supports ESP-IDF, but not always the latest version)
Documentation for getting it up and running can be found here: https://docs.espressif.com/projects/esp-idf/en/latest/esp32/...
Documentation for getting it up and running can be found here: https://docs.espressif.com/projects/esp-idf/en/latest/esp32/...
FWIW I had an extremely bad experience using the ESP-IDF with my team. We wasted a lot of time trying to get everything to properly build and link due to the convoluted way Espressif has set up the CMake dependencies. Lots of hard coded paths and one little thing could cause a lot of issues with compilation.
I even submitted a PR to fix one of the areas that caused me a lot of headache (it had to do with an assumption about the Python environment), and it was rejected because the ESP-IDF is meant to be opinionated about its choices.
What's even worse is Amazon's ESP32 FreeRTOS distribution. Stay away from that with a 10ft pole. Sure, it sounds nice to have some integration with AWS (GreenGrass, IoT Core, OTA via MQTT via AWS, etc), but half the ESP32 won't work (eg multicore) and modules that you find for ESP-IDF are not inherently cross compatible.
I even submitted a PR to fix one of the areas that caused me a lot of headache (it had to do with an assumption about the Python environment), and it was rejected because the ESP-IDF is meant to be opinionated about its choices.
What's even worse is Amazon's ESP32 FreeRTOS distribution. Stay away from that with a 10ft pole. Sure, it sounds nice to have some integration with AWS (GreenGrass, IoT Core, OTA via MQTT via AWS, etc), but half the ESP32 won't work (eg multicore) and modules that you find for ESP-IDF are not inherently cross compatible.
There is a single core variant of the ESP32. Maybe that's the only variant AWS supports.
Adafruit sells one of these: https://www.adafruit.com/product/4653
Adafruit sells one of these: https://www.adafruit.com/product/4653
You can do Arduino dev in Eclipse (insert some sort of joke here), and I've always found Eclipse to be surprisingly good at C/C++ dev and it worked for me there.
The 'arduino' IDE is for beginners, the standard IDE is now Atmel Studio.
I didn't know Atmel Studio. But it seems to be windows only.
> I keep bouncing off Arduino stuff just because I find their IDE to be astonishingly awful
Arduino is both a cpp framework AND a really bad IDE. Using tools like PlatformIO or just your favorite toolchain, you can still use the Arduino libraries and skip their IDE.
With the ESP8622/ESP32 you can also skip arduino and use MicroPython, or push c/cpp code.
Arduino is both a cpp framework AND a really bad IDE. Using tools like PlatformIO or just your favorite toolchain, you can still use the Arduino libraries and skip their IDE.
With the ESP8622/ESP32 you can also skip arduino and use MicroPython, or push c/cpp code.
For ESP32 and ESP8266 there are a few good non-Arduino options I'm aware of:
* Official Espressif SDKs (C): https://github.com/espressif
* NodeMCU (Lua): https://nodemcu.readthedocs.io/en/release/
* MicroPython: http://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp32/quickref.html
I haven't used the official SDK in several years and frankly the current state of their Github org confuses me (why are there so many options now?), so I won't say much about that. They do have a large library of examples however.
NodeMCU is a Lua firmware that abstracts away much of the ugliness you'll encounter trying to learn the C SDK. After the initial Lua learning curve and figuring out what it means to build and flash firmware, it's quite pleasant to use. I find the development iteration cycle much quicker than with the C SDK.
MicroPython is of course a Python firmware along those same lines. I personally haven't had much success with this one, and NodeMCU worked well enough that I didn't try much harder.
I too would like to see a nice straightforward solution to BYO editor to the Arduino IDE, everything I've looked at has been a set of strange hacks. (EDIT: I now see the link to vim-arduino, thanks mollusk)
* Official Espressif SDKs (C): https://github.com/espressif
* NodeMCU (Lua): https://nodemcu.readthedocs.io/en/release/
* MicroPython: http://docs.micropython.org/en/latest/esp32/quickref.html
I haven't used the official SDK in several years and frankly the current state of their Github org confuses me (why are there so many options now?), so I won't say much about that. They do have a large library of examples however.
NodeMCU is a Lua firmware that abstracts away much of the ugliness you'll encounter trying to learn the C SDK. After the initial Lua learning curve and figuring out what it means to build and flash firmware, it's quite pleasant to use. I find the development iteration cycle much quicker than with the C SDK.
MicroPython is of course a Python firmware along those same lines. I personally haven't had much success with this one, and NodeMCU worked well enough that I didn't try much harder.
I too would like to see a nice straightforward solution to BYO editor to the Arduino IDE, everything I've looked at has been a set of strange hacks. (EDIT: I now see the link to vim-arduino, thanks mollusk)
Can you link to the3 large e-paper display please?
This reminds me of a tangential matter. The Rasberry Pi has a built in hardware decoder for MPEG-2. You can pay a licensing fee and enable the decoder. This is despite the fact that the relevant patents on MPEG-2 have expired in the US and much of the world[1]. The issue is that there are still active patents in Malaysia[2].
[1] https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/939
[2] https://bryanquigley.com/pages/mpeg2-patent-tracker.html
[1] https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/939
[2] https://bryanquigley.com/pages/mpeg2-patent-tracker.html
That second link is interesting and perhaps needs to be updated given that it says:
> Please be aware to renew your patent before this date is reached, or else your patent will become expired. 14 Sep 2020
(and earlier dates for the other 2 patents). Following the link to the MPEG LA site, though, indicates that they believe the Malaysian patents are still valid as of October 2020.
https://www.mpegla.com/programs/mpeg-2/patent-list/
> Please be aware to renew your patent before this date is reached, or else your patent will become expired. 14 Sep 2020
(and earlier dates for the other 2 patents). Following the link to the MPEG LA site, though, indicates that they believe the Malaysian patents are still valid as of October 2020.
https://www.mpegla.com/programs/mpeg-2/patent-list/
> The Rasberry Pi has a built in hardware decoder for MPEG-2.
Well the older models did, yes. I don't believe the Raspberry Pi 4 has one anymore. (And the CPU can probably handle it just fine as well)
Well the older models did, yes. I don't believe the Raspberry Pi 4 has one anymore. (And the CPU can probably handle it just fine as well)
I regularly use software decoding on the 3B+ for (legally) recorded over-the-air (ATSC) MPEG2 content and it handles 1080i@30 and 720p@60 just fine. For some shows I watch at 150% speed and it still handles it.
What is worse is the use of "no-reply" email addresses and the total lack of recourse when the algorithm gets it wrong.
We see it every day from folks who get locked out of their Google accounts to the shenanigans carried out by online marketplaces (including both service and product marketplaces).
Something has to give...
We see it every day from folks who get locked out of their Google accounts to the shenanigans carried out by online marketplaces (including both service and product marketplaces).
Something has to give...
On the bright side, eBay isn't a monopoly and this literally costs them money.
They're a de facto monopoly. The only thing they have that could be called "competition" is Amazon, and Amazon isn't quite an identical business.
Where else is there a global, highly liquid market for secondhand goods like this?
I’m not asking to be snarky, I just don’t know of any and would love an alternative to eBay.
I’m not asking to be snarky, I just don’t know of any and would love an alternative to eBay.
Yeah, no-reply emails are unbelievably rude.
Everyone here argue about how this is incoherent with them allowing to sell others things... while the real question is why they did this.
Someone else mentions they take 15%, I though it was higher, but let's go with that. Why wouldn't they want to make bank over theses Pi, even the ones actually in a grey area.
Let's be honest, this is coherent with Ebay, they want to make cash, like any other business, and something would cause them to make less of it if they were to sell Raspberry Pi.
Someone else mentioned RIAA/MPAA, which would make sense with the copyright stuff, but why wouldn't RIAA/MPAA fight all the other ones too?
So here I am, asking myself, who would want to stop Raspberry Pi from being sold, or for Little Bird Company to stop selling stuff.
Someone else mentions they take 15%, I though it was higher, but let's go with that. Why wouldn't they want to make bank over theses Pi, even the ones actually in a grey area.
Let's be honest, this is coherent with Ebay, they want to make cash, like any other business, and something would cause them to make less of it if they were to sell Raspberry Pi.
Someone else mentioned RIAA/MPAA, which would make sense with the copyright stuff, but why wouldn't RIAA/MPAA fight all the other ones too?
So here I am, asking myself, who would want to stop Raspberry Pi from being sold, or for Little Bird Company to stop selling stuff.
> Everyone here argue about how this is incoherent with them allowing to sell others things... while the real question is why they did this.
Actually, the real question is "did they do this". And the answer is, no, they didn't. Raspberry Pi returns 50,000 items and all sorts of new and used kits. Whatever listing got removed was either by mistake or because they were selling something more than just a Raspberry Pi.
Actually, the real question is "did they do this". And the answer is, no, they didn't. Raspberry Pi returns 50,000 items and all sorts of new and used kits. Whatever listing got removed was either by mistake or because they were selling something more than just a Raspberry Pi.
The answer is, yes, a small third-party used listing was removed by eBay. The fact that large retailers are recirculating used Pis has no bearing on what makes this intriguing (see my reply).
The open question is whether this is part of broader efforts by parties such as eBay or the Raspberry Pi Foundation.
The open question is whether this is part of broader efforts by parties such as eBay or the Raspberry Pi Foundation.
There's plenty of listings from individuals and small companies. No open question. Anyone can buy or sell Raspberry Pis on ebay as evidence by the thousands of people doing that.
You're absolutely correct about the presence of listings. I agree with your skepticism towards describing this as anything more than a one-off bad copyright flagging on eBay AU. That being said, the event does warrant attention to check whether it is part of broader (perhaps regional) behavior.
Pure speculation, but it's more difficult to fingerprint device users when buying used. Linux is obviously more protective of privacy, as is the entropy of having many near-identical setups.
And they didn't do a damn thing about price gouging on N95 masks, hand sanitizer, and disinfectants during a pandemic.
I reported dozens of listings and they didn't do anything about them.
I reported dozens of listings and they didn't do anything about them.
Same thing happened with the Nvidia 30xx series cards. Some of the scalped cards were being listed upwards of $3000 for a 3080. Many had fake bids, I watched as eBay did nothing. People were even trying to mislead users by selling cardboard images of the Nvidia cards, but in a way it looked like you were buying a card (even if the description did say cardboard).
They even sent multiple emails to all of us sellers telling us they’re banned across the board with a few exceptions for companies that already have a history of selling. Clearly they were all talk.
But reporting items in general is a waste of time. I’ve reported obvious scams directly to their support people and they let them slide.
But reporting items in general is a waste of time. I’ve reported obvious scams directly to their support people and they let them slide.
I feel like the market will automatically correct? Nobody buys this overpriced stuff?
I don't think so. As stupid as it sounds, this is something I learned playing WoW many years ago with the expansion that added glyphs. Everyone _needed_ glyphs in the sense that your character wasn't hitting it's full potential and you'd get mocked if you didn't have them.
Back then I wrote my own auction house addon that would scan for glyphs below a certain price threshold, buy them, and re-list them in bulk for higher prices. It also scanned for raw materials and bought them too to help strangle the supply as much as possible. It was so easy that hitting the technical gold limit (something just over 200k IIRC) was a realistic problem to deal with.
The supply was limited enough that 2-3 people could monopolize an entire server. I recognized the other 1 or 2 people doing it on my server and it's something I would describe as tacit collusion. We never talked to each other, but we didn't compete with each other either.
The whole time _everyone_ complained about the price of glyphs, but there wasn't much they could do about it. If someone came in and tried to compete by undercutting you, you'd just buy out their supply and re-list it at your inflated prices.
It wasn't complex. You just needed to be willing to be a bit of a scumbag. The only thing that was moderately difficult was getting enough gold to start monopolizing that part of the market. IIRC it costed 5k gold to get a flying mount and most players had to save up for that, so being able to drop 5k at the auction house gave a lot of buying power.
Having a limited supply product that people _need_ means your profits are only limited by your ethics. Capitalism works really well for luxury products IMO, but less so for necessities.
Back then I wrote my own auction house addon that would scan for glyphs below a certain price threshold, buy them, and re-list them in bulk for higher prices. It also scanned for raw materials and bought them too to help strangle the supply as much as possible. It was so easy that hitting the technical gold limit (something just over 200k IIRC) was a realistic problem to deal with.
The supply was limited enough that 2-3 people could monopolize an entire server. I recognized the other 1 or 2 people doing it on my server and it's something I would describe as tacit collusion. We never talked to each other, but we didn't compete with each other either.
The whole time _everyone_ complained about the price of glyphs, but there wasn't much they could do about it. If someone came in and tried to compete by undercutting you, you'd just buy out their supply and re-list it at your inflated prices.
It wasn't complex. You just needed to be willing to be a bit of a scumbag. The only thing that was moderately difficult was getting enough gold to start monopolizing that part of the market. IIRC it costed 5k gold to get a flying mount and most players had to save up for that, so being able to drop 5k at the auction house gave a lot of buying power.
Having a limited supply product that people _need_ means your profits are only limited by your ethics. Capitalism works really well for luxury products IMO, but less so for necessities.
In your example it's not possible to increase supply in response to increased demand.
It’s also impossible to rapidly increase N95 mask production in the short term due to limits on the production of intermediate materials. We probably could’ve built more factories by now, but in the initial weeks of the pandemic increasing output was literally impossible.
It was, just not quick enough for something that people needed quickly. Similar in the case of PPE
It sounds like this need only existed because the product existed in a zero-sum game. If supply was increased, presumably players would need more.
In non-zero-sum real life, things are different. People didn't need antibiotics before they were invented just as people don't currently need to live to 200 years old since we don't have that technology either. I can't find a clear boundary between need and want. Need seems to be just "very want". Some people end up with less than others and the world keeps turning. We don't even need seemingly essential things like water because we can survive a few days without it. Just as seriously ill people can survive a few days without treatment (which may or may not have been invented yet), and normal healthy people can survive a few days when they're already 100 years old and we don't have anti-aging tech.
In non-zero-sum real life, things are different. People didn't need antibiotics before they were invented just as people don't currently need to live to 200 years old since we don't have that technology either. I can't find a clear boundary between need and want. Need seems to be just "very want". Some people end up with less than others and the world keeps turning. We don't even need seemingly essential things like water because we can survive a few days without it. Just as seriously ill people can survive a few days without treatment (which may or may not have been invented yet), and normal healthy people can survive a few days when they're already 100 years old and we don't have anti-aging tech.
It's more complicated than "just increase the supply". We've seen this play out in the first half of 2020.
1) Retooling factories and setting up supply chains takes time. You can't just start pumping out PPEs out of a new plant in a week; it takes months to organize.
2) In an emergency, by the time the production is ramped up, the demand may be gone. Some mask manufacturers were reluctant to increase their capacity early this year, because they've been burned by this in the past: they've overproduced for SARS, only to see the demand evaporate as the pandemic subsided, and were left holding the bag.
1) Retooling factories and setting up supply chains takes time. You can't just start pumping out PPEs out of a new plant in a week; it takes months to organize.
2) In an emergency, by the time the production is ramped up, the demand may be gone. Some mask manufacturers were reluctant to increase their capacity early this year, because they've been burned by this in the past: they've overproduced for SARS, only to see the demand evaporate as the pandemic subsided, and were left holding the bag.
The dictionary definition of "need" is instructive.
The first definition (in Collins 2018) is "to be in want of", so in a sense you're right. However, one of the subsequent definitions is "distress or extremity", followed by "extreme poverty or destitution". "Need", then, is a want that's extreme enough to cause suffering if it's unfulfilled.
In that sense, people did need antibiotics. They might not have known it, but they did. In the same way, today we need treatments that we haven't discovered yet. "Being able to survive" isn't the bar. "Not suffering for the lack" is.
The first definition (in Collins 2018) is "to be in want of", so in a sense you're right. However, one of the subsequent definitions is "distress or extremity", followed by "extreme poverty or destitution". "Need", then, is a want that's extreme enough to cause suffering if it's unfulfilled.
In that sense, people did need antibiotics. They might not have known it, but they did. In the same way, today we need treatments that we haven't discovered yet. "Being able to survive" isn't the bar. "Not suffering for the lack" is.
Not really, because people still need masks, and at that time, everything else was sold out, even the local shops.
Lots of people overpaid, and it went into the hands of some eBay armchair hoarders.
Lots of people overpaid, and it went into the hands of some eBay armchair hoarders.
It's easy to quote a low price if you have zero stock to sell. The alternative was not masks available at low prices, the alternative was no masks.
No, the alternative was masks at regular prices with sales restricted to hospitals and industries (jobs that need N95 or better for occupational safety), and unallocated flow sold out on consumer market with purchase limits.
This is not a thing the "free market" can do. We need to get PPE into the hands of hospitals and healthcare workers above all. The "free market" is literally designed to make that not happen, if someone else with more money is out there and willing to pay more money than the hospitals.
ebay, facebook and amazon blocking the sale of masks and hand sanitizer is likely a reason for spikes of viral infection.... as if blocking the sale of these items has anything to do with keeping people safe, quite the opposite.
> The "free market" is literally designed to make that not happen, if someone else with more money is out there and willing to pay more money than the hospitals.
The free market is not designed at all to do anything, let alone acts with a bolted-on moral load.
What the free market allows is that economic actors like the hospital are free to purchase their supplies from anyone at all from anywhere, and allows anyone who has any interest in producing said supplies to present their offering. That's it.
I live in a country where, when the demand for N95 masks started, had a few unrelated corporations quickly enter the market with their own product. I'm talking about companies ranging from office supplies to coffee makers. Hell, even beer producers quickly entered the hand sanitizer market. Consequently prices dropped drastically and not only is there no shortage of protective equipment but it's also affordable.
That's what happens in a free market.
How come you're talking about this sort of stuff not happening in your country, and still you talk about a free market?
The free market is not designed at all to do anything, let alone acts with a bolted-on moral load.
What the free market allows is that economic actors like the hospital are free to purchase their supplies from anyone at all from anywhere, and allows anyone who has any interest in producing said supplies to present their offering. That's it.
I live in a country where, when the demand for N95 masks started, had a few unrelated corporations quickly enter the market with their own product. I'm talking about companies ranging from office supplies to coffee makers. Hell, even beer producers quickly entered the hand sanitizer market. Consequently prices dropped drastically and not only is there no shortage of protective equipment but it's also affordable.
That's what happens in a free market.
How come you're talking about this sort of stuff not happening in your country, and still you talk about a free market?
> I live in a country where, when the demand for N95 masks started, had a few unrelated corporations quickly enter the market with their own product. I'm talking about companies ranging from office supplies to coffee makers. Hell, even beer producers quickly entered the hand sanitizer market. Consequently prices dropped drastically and not only is there no shortage of protective equipment but it's also affordable.
Interesting, because IIRC there were global shortages of both hand sanitizer and N95 masks up to at least May. There were a lot of scammy products sold in between March and May, though. The problem with price gouging in large-scale emergencies is that companies just can't retool that quickly, especially when - as is the case with both hand sanitizer and N95 respirators - a complex supply chain is involved. That takes months, and through those months, you're dealing with extremely inefficient distribution of goods - from the humanitarian/life saving point of view.
Free market does what it does. For instance, price the poorest out. A well-known example of the free market at work was in the US, when some people drove a van around towns and villages in their state and bought out all hand sanitizer to resell it on-line (with significant markup), thus depriving less wealthy communities of access to hand sanitizer.
Interesting, because IIRC there were global shortages of both hand sanitizer and N95 masks up to at least May. There were a lot of scammy products sold in between March and May, though. The problem with price gouging in large-scale emergencies is that companies just can't retool that quickly, especially when - as is the case with both hand sanitizer and N95 respirators - a complex supply chain is involved. That takes months, and through those months, you're dealing with extremely inefficient distribution of goods - from the humanitarian/life saving point of view.
Free market does what it does. For instance, price the poorest out. A well-known example of the free market at work was in the US, when some people drove a van around towns and villages in their state and bought out all hand sanitizer to resell it on-line (with significant markup), thus depriving less wealthy communities of access to hand sanitizer.
If you believe the free market isn’t designed you’re in for a few bad experiences. Rules of the market are absolutely required to be consciously created, otherwise the free market becomes a monopoly. Remember that anarchy is just a prelude to despotism, both economically and politically.
It also assumes everyone has the same power, which is false
And that everyone has perfect infinite information, which is impossible.
And that externalities are irrelevant, which is false
And that all options are equally accessible, which doesn't exist.
And that people act in perfectly rational objective ways, which isn't how humans behave.
And that everyone instantaneously knows the utility maximization function of all potential transactions, which doesn't ever happen either.
And that firms will always prefer competition over cooperation, which is the exact opposite of reality.
And that any tricks such as cornering, price fixing, ramping, runs, pump and dumps, luring, spoofing, churning, pools, don't exist, which is also false.
The foundation it's built on is a fundamental fiction. Conclusions based on it occasionally resembling reality are exceedingly rare and merely coincidental - it's like a form of astrology with more equations and charts.
And the real clincher is the advocates are only interested in defending their ideological agenda like some kind of religious zealot.
When anyone walks in thinking they already have the answer before hearing any of the questions, watch out - especially if it's the same exact answer every time.
And that everyone has perfect infinite information, which is impossible.
And that externalities are irrelevant, which is false
And that all options are equally accessible, which doesn't exist.
And that people act in perfectly rational objective ways, which isn't how humans behave.
And that everyone instantaneously knows the utility maximization function of all potential transactions, which doesn't ever happen either.
And that firms will always prefer competition over cooperation, which is the exact opposite of reality.
And that any tricks such as cornering, price fixing, ramping, runs, pump and dumps, luring, spoofing, churning, pools, don't exist, which is also false.
The foundation it's built on is a fundamental fiction. Conclusions based on it occasionally resembling reality are exceedingly rare and merely coincidental - it's like a form of astrology with more equations and charts.
And the real clincher is the advocates are only interested in defending their ideological agenda like some kind of religious zealot.
When anyone walks in thinking they already have the answer before hearing any of the questions, watch out - especially if it's the same exact answer every time.
And you believe government regulations resolves all of the problems you perceive to be wrong with a free market economy?
You believe this despite 1000's of years of history proving centrally planned economies fail every time?
Even with in the COVID crisis we have example after example of governments in the US, and out of the US, State level, and Federal level making the exactly wrong choices.
We also have many examples of the market opening up avenues of innovation and surplus in PPE and Testing
I am sure the obvious thing to you is "just elect better" but that is akin to your statement about "the real clincher is the advocates are only interested in defending their ideological agenda" or even "When anyone walks in thinking they already have the answer before hearing any of the questions, watch out -" where the answer to all questions is "more Government Regulations"
You believe this despite 1000's of years of history proving centrally planned economies fail every time?
Even with in the COVID crisis we have example after example of governments in the US, and out of the US, State level, and Federal level making the exactly wrong choices.
We also have many examples of the market opening up avenues of innovation and surplus in PPE and Testing
I am sure the obvious thing to you is "just elect better" but that is akin to your statement about "the real clincher is the advocates are only interested in defending their ideological agenda" or even "When anyone walks in thinking they already have the answer before hearing any of the questions, watch out -" where the answer to all questions is "more Government Regulations"
You're changing the topic. We're talking about the Friedman and Hayek free market model of the Austrian School.
No I am not, pointing out problems in a given system is easy, the question is what system do you replace it with that does not have those problems?
The Free Market is not perfect, but it is the best model we know of, replacing it with Centrally planned economy and high government regulations has proven time and time again to produce worse economic outputs and often times costs millions of lives
The Free Market is not perfect, but it is the best model we know of, replacing it with Centrally planned economy and high government regulations has proven time and time again to produce worse economic outputs and often times costs millions of lives
Huh? It doesn't exist.
Systems that have tried to work toward it are extremely centrally planned and heavily regulated such as the NYSE.
Retail plans to have a free market exchange, say of healthcare providers, say, in the affordable care act, also have lots of central planning and government regulation.
The efforts to get to a free market have been some of the most complexly planned and regulated government systems ever created.
It's necessary to try to secure the required guarantees. How are you going to get everyone to agree on the same way of informing a price? How are you going to get equal access to all options? How are you going to get a friction free transfer? Make sure firms stay competing and not carteling, collaborating, or colluding etc ... the answer is government government government. These things don't happen on their own.
Systems that have tried to work toward it are extremely centrally planned and heavily regulated such as the NYSE.
Retail plans to have a free market exchange, say of healthcare providers, say, in the affordable care act, also have lots of central planning and government regulation.
The efforts to get to a free market have been some of the most complexly planned and regulated government systems ever created.
It's necessary to try to secure the required guarantees. How are you going to get everyone to agree on the same way of informing a price? How are you going to get equal access to all options? How are you going to get a friction free transfer? Make sure firms stay competing and not carteling, collaborating, or colluding etc ... the answer is government government government. These things don't happen on their own.
>>Retail plans to have a free market exchange, say of healthcare providers, say, in the affordable care act, also have lots of central planning and government regulation.
What??? How in any way in a Centrally planned market a "free market exchange"?
Nothing in ACA is a free market, NOTHING. and NOTHING in ACA had a goal or desire to create a free market exchange, it was expressly anti-free market with the goal to be one step closer to Single Payer
>How are you going to get everyone to agree on the same way of informing a price?
I am not sure you understand what a free market is, or would look like if your are asking this question.
What??? How in any way in a Centrally planned market a "free market exchange"?
Nothing in ACA is a free market, NOTHING. and NOTHING in ACA had a goal or desire to create a free market exchange, it was expressly anti-free market with the goal to be one step closer to Single Payer
>How are you going to get everyone to agree on the same way of informing a price?
I am not sure you understand what a free market is, or would look like if your are asking this question.
Huh? No, the Heritage Foundation in 1989 proposed the individual mandate as an alternative to single-payer health care - explicitly as a way to avoid it not as a path toward it. That's why it's in there.
It's based on models by the Hudson Institute and the Heritage Foundation, free-market think tanks and is partially based on the Republican Massachusetts plan from 2006.
The inability of republicans to replace the plan over the past decade is because the plan as it stands was more or less the Free Market proposed alternative to a European style system by their leading advocacy groups circa 2009.
The Republicans are disowning the plan now because of optics. The Heritage foundation pulled their original document for instance, but you can find it in places like here https://www.scribd.com/doc/86911670/1989-Assuring-Affordable...
It's based on models by the Hudson Institute and the Heritage Foundation, free-market think tanks and is partially based on the Republican Massachusetts plan from 2006.
The inability of republicans to replace the plan over the past decade is because the plan as it stands was more or less the Free Market proposed alternative to a European style system by their leading advocacy groups circa 2009.
The Republicans are disowning the plan now because of optics. The Heritage foundation pulled their original document for instance, but you can find it in places like here https://www.scribd.com/doc/86911670/1989-Assuring-Affordable...
And still, against all your strongly held beliefs and preconceived notions, free markets not only work, but they created all the useful stuff we use every day while lifting the whole of humankind out of abject poverty.
So, watch out for those religious zealots indeed.
So, watch out for those religious zealots indeed.
But they don't exist and they never have because of all the things I pointed out.
The premise of your argument is incorrect because they are not real. The free market is an impossible theoretical intellectual exercise and nothing more.
Show me where all participants instantaneously knows the utility maximization function of all potential transactions and exercises individual maximization with friction free transfers based on perfect infinite information and we can more forward with your argument.
Otherwise you're simply attributing unspecific generalities to a fiction.
The premise of your argument is incorrect because they are not real. The free market is an impossible theoretical intellectual exercise and nothing more.
Show me where all participants instantaneously knows the utility maximization function of all potential transactions and exercises individual maximization with friction free transfers based on perfect infinite information and we can more forward with your argument.
Otherwise you're simply attributing unspecific generalities to a fiction.
Yeah, communists had all the theoretical reasons their system was better than capitalism, still in the end, they were the ones starving.
Now you've changed the topic. Free Market and Capitalism aren't the same thing. Capitalism exists, free markets do not. We're talking about a specific theory in the Austrian School.
The task is still on you to demonstrate how the free market isn't a fiction.
The task is still on you to demonstrate how the free market isn't a fiction.
No, the task is still on you to defend your strange belief in the nonexistence of free markets.
I went into a small one this very morning, to buy some apples and eggs. Looked very real to me. And free: nobody told the sellers at which price to sell and nobody made me buy if I didn’t like it.
I went into a small one this very morning, to buy some apples and eggs. Looked very real to me. And free: nobody told the sellers at which price to sell and nobody made me buy if I didn’t like it.
That's just a market. Markets have existed forever - that's just a transaction of goods or services.
Free markets are a specific definition with specific conditions.
Free markets are a specific definition with specific conditions.
Yeah, I am using the generally accepted and recognized meaning in conversations around the world. I am not interested in the current trend of twisting the definition of a word until it fits your preconceived notions.
Because no one is starving in capitalist societies?
> And still, against all your strongly held beliefs and preconceived notions, free markets not only work, but they created all the useful stuff we use every day while lifting the whole of humankind out of abject poverty.
And they did that because they weren't 100% "free", but were regulated.
Imagine someone who said this: "Fire is good. It heats our homes, it cooks our food, it runs our cars and our industry and lets us travel quickly from one place to another. So let's get rid of all fire departments and all forest control services, and let fire be as efficient as it can be."
That's obviously a stupid position to take. Fire is neither good nor bad; it's a force that can be incredibly powerful when harnessed for good, and incredibly destructive when allowed to run rampant. And there are times when it's simply not the right tool for the job.
Markets are the same way. Talking about the "free market" is a bit silly: All markets have constraints, either natural or artificial, and they optimize based on those constraints. When appropriately channeled, they can be a powerful force for allocation of resources and experimentation. When not appropriately controlled, they can destroy environments and harm society. And sometimes it's simply not the right tool for the job.
And they did that because they weren't 100% "free", but were regulated.
Imagine someone who said this: "Fire is good. It heats our homes, it cooks our food, it runs our cars and our industry and lets us travel quickly from one place to another. So let's get rid of all fire departments and all forest control services, and let fire be as efficient as it can be."
That's obviously a stupid position to take. Fire is neither good nor bad; it's a force that can be incredibly powerful when harnessed for good, and incredibly destructive when allowed to run rampant. And there are times when it's simply not the right tool for the job.
Markets are the same way. Talking about the "free market" is a bit silly: All markets have constraints, either natural or artificial, and they optimize based on those constraints. When appropriately channeled, they can be a powerful force for allocation of resources and experimentation. When not appropriately controlled, they can destroy environments and harm society. And sometimes it's simply not the right tool for the job.
Price controls is not regulating markets, is completely closing them. Putting out the fire, not harnessing it.
During Soviet times, everybody could afford toilet paper but nobody could buy it...
During Soviet times, everybody could afford toilet paper but nobody could buy it...
> Price controls is not regulating markets, is completely closing them. Putting out the fire, not harnessing it.
Well, no. People manufacturing masks still have a choice as to whether to make masks at the price-controlled price or not. If it's not cost-effective, they won't make any. If it's adequately cost-effective, they'll make the normal amount. If the price controls are still fairly lucrative, they'll be encouraged to make more product.
On the other hand, the knowledge that there will be no limits on "surge pricing" might encourage people to build up stockpiles to smooth out shocks in supply or demand; whereas, the knowledge that there will be limits on "surge pricing" might discourage people from building up stockpiles, thus making shocks in supply or demand worse.
In both cases, "the market" is still doing what the market does: optimizing for the particular inputs it's given. The question is, which outcome do we prefer?
EDIT: And, is the market actually the right tool for this particular job?
For instance, in the case of vital medical equipment such as N95 masks, maybe it makes sense to have the government stockpile reserves, rather than relying on the market to do it.
Well, no. People manufacturing masks still have a choice as to whether to make masks at the price-controlled price or not. If it's not cost-effective, they won't make any. If it's adequately cost-effective, they'll make the normal amount. If the price controls are still fairly lucrative, they'll be encouraged to make more product.
On the other hand, the knowledge that there will be no limits on "surge pricing" might encourage people to build up stockpiles to smooth out shocks in supply or demand; whereas, the knowledge that there will be limits on "surge pricing" might discourage people from building up stockpiles, thus making shocks in supply or demand worse.
In both cases, "the market" is still doing what the market does: optimizing for the particular inputs it's given. The question is, which outcome do we prefer?
EDIT: And, is the market actually the right tool for this particular job?
For instance, in the case of vital medical equipment such as N95 masks, maybe it makes sense to have the government stockpile reserves, rather than relying on the market to do it.
This experiment has been tried. During the 70s energy crisis, gas price controls succeeded in creating the longest lines and shortages.
No other subsequent oil crises had the same disastrous effect, because the market was allowed to solve the problem.
No other subsequent oil crises had the same disastrous effect, because the market was allowed to solve the problem.
> No other subsequent oil crises had the same disastrous effect, because the market was allowed to solve the problem.
How much was the market, and how much was the government?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve_(U...
How much was the market, and how much was the government?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve_(U...
I don’t know, but it looks to me that through that Reserve even the government understood that price controls don’t work and tried to solve the problem working with the market rather than against it.
Things like the Agricultural Adjustment Act came about because Overproduction of commodities (in this case crops) lead to its collapse. The prices go down decreasing the margin so the producers put more in the market, pushing the price down further, reducing their margins further, leading to unpayable debts and bankruptcies.
An abundance of commodities disrupts the conditions for the creation of profits. Nobody really disputes the overproduction phenomena and consequences. At the macro-scale this can have a contagion effect and cause what's called a "general glut" identified by both Smith and Ricardo.
We saw that in the shale oil bust just recently. Price controls and making the government the buyer of last resort (for instance, the Commodity Credit Corporation) are remedies for fixing this flaw. They are there because of a fundamental flaw in market economics.
An abundance of commodities disrupts the conditions for the creation of profits. Nobody really disputes the overproduction phenomena and consequences. At the macro-scale this can have a contagion effect and cause what's called a "general glut" identified by both Smith and Ricardo.
We saw that in the shale oil bust just recently. Price controls and making the government the buyer of last resort (for instance, the Commodity Credit Corporation) are remedies for fixing this flaw. They are there because of a fundamental flaw in market economics.
And still capitalism creates abundance and plenty of offer while socialism creates hunger and lack of the basics.
I still remember entering a supermarket in the west after the fall of the Berlin Wall. The shock at all that choice... is indescribable.
I still remember entering a supermarket in the west after the fall of the Berlin Wall. The shock at all that choice... is indescribable.
I'm sorry, are you trying to claim that the phenomena of overproduction doesn't exist? Do you have any evidence for the claim?
Simply acknowledging an economic phenomena doesn't make someone a soviet communist.
Simply acknowledging an economic phenomena doesn't make someone a soviet communist.
Being an entrepreneur is risky. Planning your production is just one of those risks. Some will fail and go out of business. Others will take their place. The market will endure. The consumers will benefit.
Same in my country. First there was nothing available, then outrageous prices, then countless new producers entered the market and now you have your choice at accessible prices.
Free markets at their finest. In my understanding only countries implementing price controls still have supply problems...
Free markets at their finest. In my understanding only countries implementing price controls still have supply problems...
If the "free market" is not designed for such an outcome, then what is the expected outcome when hospitals need to purchase PPE, and enough others are willing to pay more than the hospitals?
Wait until it's overpriced for you too, and you need it...
If I needed something, I would strongly prefer something to be overpriced and available for purchase rather than fairly priced and sold out.
If I needed something, I would strongly prefer something to be fairly priced and available for limited purchase rather than either of your two ideas.
It doesn't matter if it's doctors or nurses in hospitals or not-so-smart people buying second hand because of a panic, people shouldn't be price gouging or hoarding PPE. There was a hoarder arrested in NYC earlier this year.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/30/brooklyn-man-arrested-for-hoar...
https://nypost.com/2020/03/30/brooklyn-man-arrested-for-hoar...
When there is huge demand for a product prices go up. Then the people who really need it will still be able to buy it. This is a good feature of markets.
With face masks, the people who need them and the people who have lots of money are not the same group of people
You're talking about supply shortages as if it was a permanent thing.
If after all these months you're still seeing a shortage in face masks then I regret to inform you that your market is not free, nor is your economy operating accordig to basic capitalism principles.
If after all these months you're still seeing a shortage in face masks then I regret to inform you that your market is not free, nor is your economy operating accordig to basic capitalism principles.
>You're talking about supply shortages as if it was a permanent thing.
So the hospital staff should just do without PPE for weeks until production catches up?
So the hospital staff should just do without PPE for weeks until production catches up?
'capitalism principles' are not a religious teaching, lets discuss facts on the ground
For N95 respirators you need meltblown, a material that most countries do not produce, and the equipment to make it has lead time of a year in mormal times.
Masks that are now filling shelves are, for the most park, just BS. They are not actual respirators.
For N95 respirators you need meltblown, a material that most countries do not produce, and the equipment to make it has lead time of a year in mormal times.
Masks that are now filling shelves are, for the most park, just BS. They are not actual respirators.
Do you imagine the meltblown production lines come from fairy land or something? They are subject to the exact same market forces as the masks.
IDK about the US, but in Europe the supply of masks and respirators is now sufficient (and has been for months). From what I've seen, the countries that did limit the prices ended up having worse shortages than the ones who didn't, big surprise... /s
If you suspect that a retailer is selling masks or respirators that aren't compliant with the relevant regulation, perhaps you should report that somewhere.
IDK about the US, but in Europe the supply of masks and respirators is now sufficient (and has been for months). From what I've seen, the countries that did limit the prices ended up having worse shortages than the ones who didn't, big surprise... /s
If you suspect that a retailer is selling masks or respirators that aren't compliant with the relevant regulation, perhaps you should report that somewhere.
"a retailer is selling masks or respirators that aren't compliant"
You misunderstand - the medical staff must be supplied with proper equipment. The general public just has to wear a mask, there is no requirements that it performs to any particular standard, and the retailers are not claiming they do. The masks worn by the the public contain no meltblown, they are just random cloth fabric and they perform nothing like the proper respirator does.
The point I was making is that you can't point at the random masks that appeared on the shelves as evidence that supply of respirators has been fixed - there are still not enough respirators to supply every Tom, Dick and Harry.
You misunderstand - the medical staff must be supplied with proper equipment. The general public just has to wear a mask, there is no requirements that it performs to any particular standard, and the retailers are not claiming they do. The masks worn by the the public contain no meltblown, they are just random cloth fabric and they perform nothing like the proper respirator does.
The point I was making is that you can't point at the random masks that appeared on the shelves as evidence that supply of respirators has been fixed - there are still not enough respirators to supply every Tom, Dick and Harry.
> The masks worn by the the public contain no meltblown
There are actual respirators available through retail and online channels and they do contain meltblown, e.g. 3M 6200 with 3M 2135 filters. Most people won't need single use PPE, and most people won't need respirators, which is why they are available.
Regular masks are not BS, they are source control. Considering that significant number of transmissions occurs before symptom onset, everyone should wear one when interacting with strangers. It's one of the cheapest pandemic control measures available.
There are actual respirators available through retail and online channels and they do contain meltblown, e.g. 3M 6200 with 3M 2135 filters. Most people won't need single use PPE, and most people won't need respirators, which is why they are available.
Regular masks are not BS, they are source control. Considering that significant number of transmissions occurs before symptom onset, everyone should wear one when interacting with strangers. It's one of the cheapest pandemic control measures available.
Why would manufacturers invest in more production capacity if there is no upside? Imagine being a manufacturer and the government told you that you cannot sell your product for more than the set amount. You would just do business as usual which right now means no masks today nor in a future pandemic.
I have not seen a real NIOSH n95 since March.
Face masks cost 20 cents per mask. I'm sorry but this is a topic you can't just make to be about income inequality
N95 masks are currently at least $2 USD/mask on Home Depot's website, and they've never been cheaper than that when I've bought some. Who's your supplier for this budget PPE? Medical workers and the immuno-compromised would love to buy from them.
Where are you finding these $2 n95 masks in stock?
I have been unable to purchase them from Home Depot or Lowes.
The most recent price I have seen is $5 per mask in a twenty pack.
The highest I have seen so far this year, was $18 per mask.
I have been unable to purchase them from Home Depot or Lowes.
The most recent price I have seen is $5 per mask in a twenty pack.
The highest I have seen so far this year, was $18 per mask.
Do you have a link? I'd love to buy some, but when I apply the n95 filter, all 12 results are out of stock.
Not when it's a price shock, supply isn't able to respond to price signals in a timely fashion, and the increased prices are purely lining the pockets of middle men.
Without high price there would be no incentive for suppliers to rampa up supply, work over time and build new manufacturing capacity.
Manufacturers aren't stupid and don't do impulse response. If they can tell the price shock is likely transient - that the demand will evaporate before they'll manage to ramp up production - then they won't even bother.
If they knew that every decade or so, they might temporarily be able to sell at 5x the normal price for 3 months, they’d likely run their outbound supply chain slightly less just-in-time.
Ironically, this might make things less likely to get to the point where the market price was 5x normal.
Ironically, this might make things less likely to get to the point where the market price was 5x normal.
They run them less just-in-time that you think, e.g. 3M were able to double production in a couple of months [1]. I'd say that's pretty impressive, but what do I know. Regardless, preparing for these events is the government's job, including stockpiling the required PPE. In fact, in a bunch of countries the stockpiles were scaled down or simply never replenished because it was deemed an unnecessary expense (France, Belgium, Canada).
[1] https://www.startribune.com/3m-s-complicated-road-to-enough-...
[1] https://www.startribune.com/3m-s-complicated-road-to-enough-...
Good thing that almost everyone fucked up the pandemic response so the demand is here to stay, eh?
High prices also discourage some frivolous wasteful panic buying. People are going to miss out no matter what, but at least with price gouging, there's some sorting related to need, even if it's imperfect.
TIL price gouging of medical supplies during pandemics is a good feature of markets..
When an emergency lasts a few weeks in a limited area you can curb a market, and indeed this is what legislatures across the country and world had rationally prepared their jurisdictions to do
When an emergency is endless with all hope for resolution being a complete lie due to not having a plan, needing to placate the population longer and not having data to create a plan all while the scope of the emergency is expanding, a market has to continue functioning as normal with its primary feature being to signal to people - yes, even middlemen - that their ability to source and/or create supply is worth their time and energy as opposed to doing literally anything else
Thats what happened
Some jurisdictions created novel more holistic solutions by shielding the consumers from price shocks by the government absorbing/subsidizing the price over a floor. It was foolish of representatives to try to use their existing tools of short term price controls as if a storm just hit a small area of their state, as this just caused confusion and made the market more opaque.
When an emergency is endless with all hope for resolution being a complete lie due to not having a plan, needing to placate the population longer and not having data to create a plan all while the scope of the emergency is expanding, a market has to continue functioning as normal with its primary feature being to signal to people - yes, even middlemen - that their ability to source and/or create supply is worth their time and energy as opposed to doing literally anything else
Thats what happened
Some jurisdictions created novel more holistic solutions by shielding the consumers from price shocks by the government absorbing/subsidizing the price over a floor. It was foolish of representatives to try to use their existing tools of short term price controls as if a storm just hit a small area of their state, as this just caused confusion and made the market more opaque.
But the scarcity was hand made, "entrepreneurs" would buy all stock to create scarcity in order to gouge prices.
This is what free markets enable, in times of pandemic this is unacceptable.
This is what free markets enable, in times of pandemic this is unacceptable.
We live in a market based economy, when the issue spans the continent and world there is no utility in trying to disrupt that market. It is a distraction and misallocation of public resources to attempt to do so.
The "hoarders" were taking just as big of a risk as the people that took the risk to create and sell.
You are missing the point that the necessary stock did not exist. Pointing the finger at people hoarding supplies merely deflects the incompetence to a phantom boogeyman.
The "hoarders" were taking just as big of a risk as the people that took the risk to create and sell.
You are missing the point that the necessary stock did not exist. Pointing the finger at people hoarding supplies merely deflects the incompetence to a phantom boogeyman.
Other entrepreneurs would see the gouged prices and will do the impossible to find and add new stock on the market.
That is what the free markets enable, and that is why they are even more important during pandemics and other crises.
That is what the free markets enable, and that is why they are even more important during pandemics and other crises.
> do the impossible to find and add new stock on the market.
Sure, but that does take time, during which hospital stuff and immunocompromised people don't have masks.
Sure, but that does take time, during which hospital stuff and immunocompromised people don't have masks.
It's an ecosystem, a market, there is no one single actor to point to.
People couldn't sit on stock for very long because other people were flooding the market as fast as they could.
There was simply scarcity and that's it. State's had their procurement and price enforcement procedures all wrong while they sat idly for the Federal Government to procure for them, it never happened and that is what cost the most time.
The better version of events was that states assumed this level of autonomy at the very beginning and ramped up their own domestic production back in January. They created credits for this kind of production in the private sector, while also subsidizing a retail cost above a certain price, creating a ceiling for consumers. None of this happened and this affected the medical workers and immunocompromised greater than any entrepreneur hoarder could.
People couldn't sit on stock for very long because other people were flooding the market as fast as they could.
There was simply scarcity and that's it. State's had their procurement and price enforcement procedures all wrong while they sat idly for the Federal Government to procure for them, it never happened and that is what cost the most time.
The better version of events was that states assumed this level of autonomy at the very beginning and ramped up their own domestic production back in January. They created credits for this kind of production in the private sector, while also subsidizing a retail cost above a certain price, creating a ceiling for consumers. None of this happened and this affected the medical workers and immunocompromised greater than any entrepreneur hoarder could.
Yes but if you do the "obvious" thing of adding a maximum price then not only did you fail to accomplish anything (messing with prices doesn't create more masks out of thin air), you even declared the problem solved so nobody else can attempt a solution!
> It was foolish of representatives to try to use their existing tools of short term price controls as if a storm just hit a small area of their state, as this just caused confusion and made the market more opaque.
I'm still unconvinced that price gouging during an emergency is beneficial overall.
Regardless, it was already illegal in California.
I'm still unconvinced that price gouging during an emergency is beneficial overall.
Regardless, it was already illegal in California.
Actually it wasn’t, all PPE could be sourced and sold at prices that matched their scarcity and utility, which is my point about why this belief in price gouging restrictions just caused confusion. There is a way they couldnt, it was very hard to do that.
The legal reality was more nuanced than the governor, legislature and DA ever imagined because prior emergencies were never larger than an isolated area. This market distortion covered the entire state indefinitely and crossed state lines, their power was much more limited than they imagined.
They thought the federal government was going to solve this for the states and were wrong and this cost the states months, especially California due to its size and population, which is still realigning and adjusting to self-autonomy and procurement while being ahead of many other states.
The legal reality was more nuanced than the governor, legislature and DA ever imagined because prior emergencies were never larger than an isolated area. This market distortion covered the entire state indefinitely and crossed state lines, their power was much more limited than they imagined.
They thought the federal government was going to solve this for the states and were wrong and this cost the states months, especially California due to its size and population, which is still realigning and adjusting to self-autonomy and procurement while being ahead of many other states.
I heard it explained this way: in a war zone or disaster area it's risky to even have a market, so prices will rise very high. This is good. If prices were kept artificially low, by price-gouging laws for example, then there would be no market at all, as the risk would not be worth it
High prices during the pandemic slows hoarding, and is a signal to producers that there is high demand. When production ramps up to meet demand, prices will lower. This is the situation now.
Price-gouging laws encourage hoarding: the first person in line gets to buy everything at artificially low prices. Now they have to make other laws to limit purchases. Now people who need to buy for a large family or community can't buy enough. Now the needs to be another law allowing exceptions....
High prices during the pandemic slows hoarding, and is a signal to producers that there is high demand. When production ramps up to meet demand, prices will lower. This is the situation now.
Price-gouging laws encourage hoarding: the first person in line gets to buy everything at artificially low prices. Now they have to make other laws to limit purchases. Now people who need to buy for a large family or community can't buy enough. Now the needs to be another law allowing exceptions....
"is a signal to producers that there is high demand"
Otherwise they might have missed it, it's not like they have sales fogures and know about the gloval pandemic.
You do not even demonstrate that price gouging is superior to demand-limiting and price controls, which is the entire point of your last paragraph. On what basis or by what metric?
Otherwise they might have missed it, it's not like they have sales fogures and know about the gloval pandemic.
You do not even demonstrate that price gouging is superior to demand-limiting and price controls, which is the entire point of your last paragraph. On what basis or by what metric?
If you invest in more manufacturing capacity and demand doesn't materialize you're just losing money. So what happens is that manufacturers try to make their company as lean as possible because they assume an unpredictable event like a pandemic will never happen and only produce exactly as many units as needed since there is no benefit to overproduce even a little bit. Once demand starts to explode during the epidemic there is no headroom to produce more masks.
I'm not really sure what you're asking, here.
"You do not even demonstrate that price gouging is superior to demand-limiting and price controls"
I'm not even trying to demonstrate anything. I'm sharing information. If you have better information, make your case!
"You do not even demonstrate that price gouging is superior to demand-limiting and price controls"
I'm not even trying to demonstrate anything. I'm sharing information. If you have better information, make your case!
It's possible to prevent price gauging and mitigate hoarding.
Say by tying purchases to your ID, so each individual pays a fair price but only gets to purchase n items per t time.
Say by tying purchases to your ID, so each individual pays a fair price but only gets to purchase n items per t time.
I don't really see how that helps:
* people who don't have ID?
* people who genuinely need more supplies?
* who decides "fair price"?
* who stops a producer from deciding the price isn't worth their time?
* prevent corruption, the ID administrator getting more for their friends & family for instance?
* people who don't have ID?
* people who genuinely need more supplies?
* who decides "fair price"?
* who stops a producer from deciding the price isn't worth their time?
* prevent corruption, the ID administrator getting more for their friends & family for instance?
what you describe is USSR about 1990-1992. Such measures only make the situation worse and prolong the misery.
There is a really famous photo of protesters with a slogan "Race mixing is Communism".
This comparison is about as accurate.
This comparison is about as accurate.
ClumsyPilot, I'm not seeing how this doesn't contravene at least these guidelines:
Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.
Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.
Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.
Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.
Perhaps I did not express myself in the best way possible, but I was trying to summarise the following two points at once:
I do think that comparing emergency pandemic responce with Soviet Union as a whole is very poor taste and logically flawed.
I also wanted to point out that a lot of things happened in Soviet Union, including race mixing, so perhaps one should be careful when drawing conclusions.
I do think that comparing emergency pandemic responce with Soviet Union as a whole is very poor taste and logically flawed.
I also wanted to point out that a lot of things happened in Soviet Union, including race mixing, so perhaps one should be careful when drawing conclusions.
That still doesn't encourage supply to increase much. I would advocate for both. Let prices rise, and ration items
> That still doesn't encourage supply to increase much.
If you aren't sufficiently incentivized to increase production by knowing you're now guaranteed that every piece you produce will sell at the everyday price, as quickly as you can ship it, then it doesn't seem like your everyday price was rational to begin with. In such circumstances, I don't think it's safe to assume that adding steep price gouging will produce any marginal increase in the likelihood of a producer increasing production, on top of whatever production increases are already going to happen just as a result of instantly selling out of all existing stock.
But all that is assuming the gouging happens at the production end of the supply chain. If the gouging is happening at the penultimate step of the supply chain and the profits mostly don't make it back to the manufacturer, then price gouging can't do much to incentivize higher production.
If you aren't sufficiently incentivized to increase production by knowing you're now guaranteed that every piece you produce will sell at the everyday price, as quickly as you can ship it, then it doesn't seem like your everyday price was rational to begin with. In such circumstances, I don't think it's safe to assume that adding steep price gouging will produce any marginal increase in the likelihood of a producer increasing production, on top of whatever production increases are already going to happen just as a result of instantly selling out of all existing stock.
But all that is assuming the gouging happens at the production end of the supply chain. If the gouging is happening at the penultimate step of the supply chain and the profits mostly don't make it back to the manufacturer, then price gouging can't do much to incentivize higher production.
> If the gouging is happening at the penultimate step of the supply chain and the profits mostly don't make it back to the manufacturer, then price gouging can't do much to incentivize higher production.
And that was, in fact, the problem with price gouging of PPEs in this pandemic. The manufacturers didn't raise prices, the stores didn't rise prices - it's the middle-men who swooped in, bought all the stock at retailers and wholesalers, and resold at inflated prices. None of the pricing signal made it back to manufacturers.
And that was, in fact, the problem with price gouging of PPEs in this pandemic. The manufacturers didn't raise prices, the stores didn't rise prices - it's the middle-men who swooped in, bought all the stock at retailers and wholesalers, and resold at inflated prices. None of the pricing signal made it back to manufacturers.
Take the example of a hurricane in texas.
With prices going up, people are incentivized to buy diesel generators in Maine, load 'em up in their flat bed trucks, and just drive 'em down to texas to sell there. The extra price just needs to cover gas and some time.
In the case of PPE, the extra price might be enough to pay for totally disrupting base material pipelines away from other products and into the PPE pipeline.
There might be production limits that cannot respond quickly. But there are many limits that still can. Over-hours, material acquisition, moving stock around long distance. Normally, these things are un-economical and also bad ideas. In the case of an emergency, these things become good ideas. It makes sense to also make them economical then. Or at the very least, if people are willing to do these things, don't force them to make hugely un-economical decisions out of the goodness of their hearts.
With prices going up, people are incentivized to buy diesel generators in Maine, load 'em up in their flat bed trucks, and just drive 'em down to texas to sell there. The extra price just needs to cover gas and some time.
In the case of PPE, the extra price might be enough to pay for totally disrupting base material pipelines away from other products and into the PPE pipeline.
There might be production limits that cannot respond quickly. But there are many limits that still can. Over-hours, material acquisition, moving stock around long distance. Normally, these things are un-economical and also bad ideas. In the case of an emergency, these things become good ideas. It makes sense to also make them economical then. Or at the very least, if people are willing to do these things, don't force them to make hugely un-economical decisions out of the goodness of their hearts.
If you have tuned your production to use your capital equipment and manufacturing staff optimally, the next 10% of production is likely to cost you more not less than the last 10% you were making previously. You might need to run overtime. You might need to buy more capital equipment. You might need to light up or rent more warehouse/logistics space. You risk over-producing at a higher cost and hurting your future results.
The price signal helps cover those costs and risks, not just telling you to make more, but by making it plainly economical to spend the money to do so. Otherwise, “screw it; I’ll keep making at the tuned level rather than doing all this extra effort to make less margin-% and maybe less free cash flow.”
The price signal helps cover those costs and risks, not just telling you to make more, but by making it plainly economical to spend the money to do so. Otherwise, “screw it; I’ll keep making at the tuned level rather than doing all this extra effort to make less margin-% and maybe less free cash flow.”
> You risk over-producing at a higher cost and hurting your future results.
That was very obviously not going to be a risk with this pandemic.
That was very obviously not going to be a risk with this pandemic.
Religious fanatic.
What exactly is wrong with selling the stuff at a price that will easily find buyers?
Those items were not controlled by the government, there were no quotas in place or anything like that, so what exactly did you report those listings for? What crime, or even what ethical problem do you see with it? Just don't buy it if you think it's too expensive. It would be one thing if it was a big company that was ordered by the government to give masks to hospitals, but the listings you talk about were likely from individuals who had small stocks that were free to do with those stocks as they pleased.
It sounds like you didn't want to pay the price that the seller wanted, but instead of simply refusing to buy you tried to go around and try to abuse the reporting system to force them to sell cheaper in a new listing.
Those items were not controlled by the government, there were no quotas in place or anything like that, so what exactly did you report those listings for? What crime, or even what ethical problem do you see with it? Just don't buy it if you think it's too expensive. It would be one thing if it was a big company that was ordered by the government to give masks to hospitals, but the listings you talk about were likely from individuals who had small stocks that were free to do with those stocks as they pleased.
It sounds like you didn't want to pay the price that the seller wanted, but instead of simply refusing to buy you tried to go around and try to abuse the reporting system to force them to sell cheaper in a new listing.
> It sounds like you didn't want to pay the price that the seller wanted, but instead of simply refusing to buy you tried to go around and try to abuse the reporting system
Or perhaps they simply know Ebay's policy on the matter.
"We encourage our community to report any listings they suspect of price gouging to us."
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-ite...
Or perhaps they simply know Ebay's policy on the matter.
"We encourage our community to report any listings they suspect of price gouging to us."
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-ite...
Ebay's policy is simply wrong. It may be a good move for them PR wise, but it will only result in people being unable to obtain the goods they need. When real prices shoot up, people will just avoid selling those things via Ebay at all.
It is wrong to substantially rise the price of the health-related product if you suddenly see there is a big need for it. It is non-ethical and totally wrong!
> It is wrong to substantially rise the price of the health-related product if you suddenly see there is a big need for it. It is non-ethical and totally wrong!
Wrong why? I mean, in a time of scarcity how do you ensure that only those who need it the most are able to self-moderate their purchases?
I should point out the fact that artificially restricted selling prices lead to shortages really quick, as people tend to binge buy in those circumstances thus depleting supplies. It happens with bottled water in hurricanes, it happened with toilet paper in the first covid19 lockdowns, and it sure as hell happened with face masks as well.
Wrong why? I mean, in a time of scarcity how do you ensure that only those who need it the most are able to self-moderate their purchases?
I should point out the fact that artificially restricted selling prices lead to shortages really quick, as people tend to binge buy in those circumstances thus depleting supplies. It happens with bottled water in hurricanes, it happened with toilet paper in the first covid19 lockdowns, and it sure as hell happened with face masks as well.
I will bet you any amount of money that the people who need to physically work, and therefore trivially the ones most in need of good masks, aren't the ones buying them at free-market rates.
Econ 101 doesn't talk much about the impact of wealth inequality on free-market mechanisms, for some reason.
Econ 101 doesn't talk much about the impact of wealth inequality on free-market mechanisms, for some reason.
> I will bet you any amount of money that the people who need to physically work, and therefore trivially the ones most in need of good masks, aren't the ones buying them at free-market rates.
As the covid19 pandemic showed, they surely are not the ones buying them all all at artificially restricted prices either, because the jackass with the shopping carts and the desperate need to hoard all types of basics decided to clean up the inventory.
> Econ 101 doesn't talk much about the impact of wealth inequality on free-market mechanisms, for some reason.
As much as it might pain you, basic economy principles are a kin to natural laws, in the sense that even if you try your hardest to pretend they don't exist... They are always there.
Additionally, one of the main errors you're making is conflating how economies work with your personal opinion on how you preferred things to happen without paying any attention to unintended consequences, let alone basic relationships between cause and effect.
As the covid19 pandemic showed, they surely are not the ones buying them all all at artificially restricted prices either, because the jackass with the shopping carts and the desperate need to hoard all types of basics decided to clean up the inventory.
> Econ 101 doesn't talk much about the impact of wealth inequality on free-market mechanisms, for some reason.
As much as it might pain you, basic economy principles are a kin to natural laws, in the sense that even if you try your hardest to pretend they don't exist... They are always there.
Additionally, one of the main errors you're making is conflating how economies work with your personal opinion on how you preferred things to happen without paying any attention to unintended consequences, let alone basic relationships between cause and effect.
> basic economy principles are a kin to natural laws
killing, stealing and raping are "a kin to natural laws". They exist, but don't pretend that they're helping.
The free market would have helped if it got masks to those who need it. It didn't. It therefore, in this context, failed to help, natural laws or no. All else is philosophy.
killing, stealing and raping are "a kin to natural laws". They exist, but don't pretend that they're helping.
The free market would have helped if it got masks to those who need it. It didn't. It therefore, in this context, failed to help, natural laws or no. All else is philosophy.
>Wrong why? I mean, in a time of scarcity how do you ensure that only those who need it the most are able to self-moderate their purchases?
On the other hand, how do you ensure that the poor have equal access to items that could save their life?
On the other hand, how do you ensure that the poor have equal access to items that could save their life?
In that case when supply is the sam, demand increases, and prices stay the same then you run out of stock. Someone then needs to distribute the product "fairly". I assume you think that should be the government?
FIFO is much more ethical in this case, than to substantially raise the prices and then wait for those with a lot of money and reject the people who can not afford it...
Quantity demanded drives supply too, not just price. Manufacturers won't say "no" to the extra revenue from increased sales volume at the same prices.
Price controls will only result in low or no supply. If a country limits prices of, say, respirators, it will work for a moment. But then retailers will sell their inventory and, unable to charge more, they will be outbid by those in countries without price controls.
Then people who really need the goods, e.g. the immunocompromised, can't get them, even if they are willing to pay the market price.
Here is an interesting podcast episode about this phenomenon in an area hit by a hurricane: https://www.econtalk.org/munger-on-price-gouging/
This is also what happened in a number of European countries due to the pandemic.
Here is an interesting podcast episode about this phenomenon in an area hit by a hurricane: https://www.econtalk.org/munger-on-price-gouging/
This is also what happened in a number of European countries due to the pandemic.
> Price controls will only result in low or no supply.
This gets trotted out again and again even though it doesn't apply to the kind of price gouging we saw at the beginning of the pandemic. It wasn't 3M raising prices, it was third parties buying up supply in bulk and then reselling at a higher price. This has no impact on supply, because the manufacturer is not seeing any increase in profit margin - it's all going to parasitic rent seekers in the middle.
This gets trotted out again and again even though it doesn't apply to the kind of price gouging we saw at the beginning of the pandemic. It wasn't 3M raising prices, it was third parties buying up supply in bulk and then reselling at a higher price. This has no impact on supply, because the manufacturer is not seeing any increase in profit margin - it's all going to parasitic rent seekers in the middle.
If you want the government to enforce a maximum price on a good then you should demand the government itself to sell that good for a fixed price under some sort of rationing rules so that everyone gets their fair share. Anything else will just lead to mismanagement.
Don't make the mistake of ignoring physical reality when talking about economy. A market isn't just a list of prices. Behind those numbers are real goods that exchange hands and have to be produced. If you just play around with some numbers you don't change anything about reality. Government price controls such as minimum wages or maximum prices for goods are just that: Playing with numbers. Since the government absolves itself of the consequences of its policies it can promise the moon and get away with causing pain and suffering.
If you really want a solution then you should start by enacting a policy that combines both the physical and economical world and sets the right incentives. Instead of a minimum wage have a job guarantee, instead of enforcing a maximum price on private sellers have a commodity guarantee that you will sell and produce masks at a fixed price. Once you fix the physical world the economical portion will fix itself.
Don't make the mistake of ignoring physical reality when talking about economy. A market isn't just a list of prices. Behind those numbers are real goods that exchange hands and have to be produced. If you just play around with some numbers you don't change anything about reality. Government price controls such as minimum wages or maximum prices for goods are just that: Playing with numbers. Since the government absolves itself of the consequences of its policies it can promise the moon and get away with causing pain and suffering.
If you really want a solution then you should start by enacting a policy that combines both the physical and economical world and sets the right incentives. Instead of a minimum wage have a job guarantee, instead of enforcing a maximum price on private sellers have a commodity guarantee that you will sell and produce masks at a fixed price. Once you fix the physical world the economical portion will fix itself.
But it does have impact -- people with greater need (i.e. those willing to pay more) can get what they need from the middleman, even if they wouldn't be able to in a first come first served system (which will inevitably be abused by people who can automate stuff, something that can also be seen in registration of limited time slots). They are effectively paying the middleman for reserving the goods for them.
Direct to consumer sales are a relatively new thing. Retailers and other middlemen are still the overwhelming majority of volume for stuff like masks, toilet paper, soap. Or do you buy toilet paper online straight from the manufacturer?
Btw, in a country without significant manufacturing capacity, everyone importing the needed goods is a "parasitic rent seeker".
On the other hand, if you are talking about hospitals and other institutional buyers, from what I've seen, it was mostly US based institutions and companies outbidding everyone else. Are you saying that you would have preferred those masks, respirators or ventilators remained in China or the EU?
Direct to consumer sales are a relatively new thing. Retailers and other middlemen are still the overwhelming majority of volume for stuff like masks, toilet paper, soap. Or do you buy toilet paper online straight from the manufacturer?
Btw, in a country without significant manufacturing capacity, everyone importing the needed goods is a "parasitic rent seeker".
On the other hand, if you are talking about hospitals and other institutional buyers, from what I've seen, it was mostly US based institutions and companies outbidding everyone else. Are you saying that you would have preferred those masks, respirators or ventilators remained in China or the EU?
Care to explain why? You wrote that you think it is wrong, but no explanation.
Are you saying that all health products should be excluded from normal market forces and that someone (government?) should mandate fixed prices on all of them at all times? That just by virtue of being health-related they should not be in the normal market? We sure don't seem to do or particularly fancy this type of economic planning anywhere in the west...
Are you saying that all health products should be excluded from normal market forces and that someone (government?) should mandate fixed prices on all of them at all times? That just by virtue of being health-related they should not be in the normal market? We sure don't seem to do or particularly fancy this type of economic planning anywhere in the west...
Because createding artificial scarcity that will kill people is wrong.
How is it artificial when the shortage itself (which means real lack of supply compared to amount of demand) gave possibility to set such high prices in the first place? How is that scarcity "artificial"?
Stockpiling
A price cap will cause a shortage. THAT is artificial scarcity. Allowing the market to select prices that keep masks in stock is the opposite!
>Allowing the market to select prices that keep masks in stock is the opposite!
In this situation it also makes sure that the rich can be a lot better protected from a virus than the poor, that is not ethical in my mind. Yes, the market will produce more, but that takes time, time during which people die.
In this situation it also makes sure that the rich can be a lot better protected from a virus than the poor, that is not ethical in my mind. Yes, the market will produce more, but that takes time, time during which people die.
The rich are better off in every way than the poor, every day. That's the nature of life. It isn't fair. Life being unfair doesn't mean something unethical is happening. Ostensibly, those that have the money to pay more either worked more for it, got luckier, or someone else who worked harder or got luckier loved them enough to gift them their wealth. Why should people be punished for luck or receiving a gift (inheritance) because it's 'unfair' to other people who weren't so lucky?
It isn't the rich peoples' fault, or the poor peoples', that there was a sudden surge in demand for these goods, or that the market did its job in adjusting the goods to their new real price in order to keep them on shelves. That's exactly what you want. Otherwise, no amount of luck or hard work will allow you to get that good even if you really, really, want it, and are willing to sacrifice other goods in order to pay the elevated -- but worth it, due to the circumstances -- price, because that elevated price was banned by people crying about "price gouging."
I need to get off of this website.
It isn't the rich peoples' fault, or the poor peoples', that there was a sudden surge in demand for these goods, or that the market did its job in adjusting the goods to their new real price in order to keep them on shelves. That's exactly what you want. Otherwise, no amount of luck or hard work will allow you to get that good even if you really, really, want it, and are willing to sacrifice other goods in order to pay the elevated -- but worth it, due to the circumstances -- price, because that elevated price was banned by people crying about "price gouging."
I need to get off of this website.
Such behavior is wrong on the west, east, north and south. USA and many other countries have laws which regulate prices.
Prediction: the "infringement," definition will expand to cover anything that enables people to limit the surveillance capabilities of their devices, or to organize themselves socially outside official tech platforms.
People thought the DMCA was just about entertainment, but it's about regulating culture and how it impacts politics. Literally the "means of production," for culture.
I had included a list in this comment of what I was betting were next on the list of "infringing" technologies, but why give them a map? If there is a legal precedent that can be leveraged and abused to an authoritarian end, expect it to be so in the near term.
People thought the DMCA was just about entertainment, but it's about regulating culture and how it impacts politics. Literally the "means of production," for culture.
I had included a list in this comment of what I was betting were next on the list of "infringing" technologies, but why give them a map? If there is a legal precedent that can be leveraged and abused to an authoritarian end, expect it to be so in the near term.
> If there is a legal precedent that can be leveraged and abused to an authoritarian end, expect it to be so in the near term.
Sounds like a corollary to Stallman's Law! [0]
[0] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/stallmans-law.html
Sounds like a corollary to Stallman's Law! [0]
[0] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/stallmans-law.html
For everybody bashing on eBay here... I'm just legitimately curious, can you recommend a service of similar visibility and quality in the US where you can sell used junk (old game consoles, appliances, collectibles) without being a business? I still use eBay because as far as I know they're still the best service in that segment of the market, but I'm open to other suggestions.
I have tried Craigslist, OfferUp, Facebook Marketplace (yuck) etc., but honestly the selling experience has been even worse than eBay. EBay skims 10% off the purchase price, but even listing at 20% below eBay selling price on other services leads to people lowballing you and then not showing up to get their stuff after you waited for them for an hour. At least with eBay if somebody flakes out I can just relist the item in a couple minutes and wait for it to end again.
I have tried Craigslist, OfferUp, Facebook Marketplace (yuck) etc., but honestly the selling experience has been even worse than eBay. EBay skims 10% off the purchase price, but even listing at 20% below eBay selling price on other services leads to people lowballing you and then not showing up to get their stuff after you waited for them for an hour. At least with eBay if somebody flakes out I can just relist the item in a couple minutes and wait for it to end again.
Indeed. It's rarely mentioned but eBay still offers the most streamlined selling experience and the most attractive selling prices, despite the 10% fee. To me it seems as if buyers on eBay are just as tired of time-wasting, long-shot negotiations as sellers - which is a good thing for both sides.
Didn't take me long to find that they have a "RetroPie" listing. I think this is going to be a lot more grey than first glance.
Good guess, but that wasn't what eBay delisted. They did however feel the need to delist "8GB MicroSD Card with NOOBS 2.0".
Do you have a list of everything they delisted? Super odd that they'd remove that listing, but leave your listings for 16GB/32GB cards with NOOBS. Thinking optimistically, this is looks like accident of some sort and if you can ever actually get a response from eBay they'll realize it.
Have the first tendrils of the coming war on general computation reached into the present?
The war never ended, but it sure does look like scary strong Authoritarian deeply vested special interests like RIAA are gearing up for a major offensive against the right of humans to compute & think as they may/might.
I saw this post pointing out that eBay still takes no action against obviously counterfeit Nintendo products. [0] Nintendo are known for being litigious, but this has been going on for years. Does anyone know what's going on here?
[0] https://twitter.com/Kavawuvi/status/1323587131974045696
[0] https://twitter.com/Kavawuvi/status/1323587131974045696
What’s up with the RIAA and MPAA this year? Feels like their lobbying has gotten out of hand.
The movie theaters dying and streaming as king making them panic?
Perhaps they finally feel that if one of their cases ends up in the US Supreme Court, they'll have a sympathetic audience.
Shouldn't the more conservative court be against Hollywood liberals? /s
Yes, I know you probably mean the court will be more corporatist.
Yes, I know you probably mean the court will be more corporatist.
Two words.
Captive audience.
Looks to me like they see a perfect opportunity in the tech backlash to try to get their own licks in.
I heard eBay has been taking down PinePhone listings as well. Their reason was that PinePhones might be used for hacking.
The irony of this is that the RPi is far more closed and proprietary than regular PCs and their components, of which you can find plenty of listings for on eBay...
I hope this was just a mistake and done due to other reasons (they thought these were fake RPis?)
I hope this was just a mistake and done due to other reasons (they thought these were fake RPis?)
They probably are scanning to remove all retropies (often sold as a package including tens of thousands of pirated games) and pirate streaming TV boxes.
Ironic that people buy it for streaming media (pirated or not), but RPi is terrible for video playback.
I have an RPi4, tried kodi (libreelec OS) and vlc on raspbian, both apps stutter with most videos at 1080p. Luckily I repurposed it for IOT so I'm pretty happy with it.
I have an RPi4, tried kodi (libreelec OS) and vlc on raspbian, both apps stutter with most videos at 1080p. Luckily I repurposed it for IOT so I'm pretty happy with it.
It really depends on the codec support. The Pi4s have hardware support for H.265 (4Kp60 decode) and H.264 (1080p60 decode).
I have issues with VLC showing a black screen when the (H.265) video is maximized.
Would you by any chance know what the issue is ?
VLC probably doesn't use the hardware decoders. Linux video acceleration is a mess, and without the exact correct versions of every component, it doesn't work and will fall back to slow software.
Hardware decoders tend to be picky about the exact video format. VLC wants to work with anything, which also makes it not a good idea to use the hardware decoders.
Even Chrome on Linux doesn't use hardware acceleration on any GPU for video.
Hardware decoders tend to be picky about the exact video format. VLC wants to work with anything, which also makes it not a good idea to use the hardware decoders.
Even Chrome on Linux doesn't use hardware acceleration on any GPU for video.
I’m afraid not. My skills are limited to reading the spec sheet. Most likely this is a software issue.
You may have had your gpu_mem setting too low. As I recall the default values were problematic on the 4. Even I had a problem initially, and I have one of the models with 4GB. These days the image libreelec provides should work fine (at least that's what I'm using without any problems).
That's not usual. Are you sure you had hardware decoding working?
It's not, really. They both suck. Both regular PCs and the RPi need piles of proprietary code to work, and a regular PC is arguably a lot more complicated and thus has a lot more proprietary parts.
The difference is mostly that PCs have decades of history of having an openly documented abstraction layer below which all the proprietary stuff is piled on, so it looks more open than the RPi which makes all the proprietary stuff more obvious and in your face.
Among ARM SBCs, the RPi used to be one of the least open ones. These days things are slightly better. It's still not great, but it's also hard to find alternatives that are much better. Nvidia Tegra boards are pretty good; you can run those with fully open source firmware these days, at least the X1 (the last bit missing was the DDR4 training code, but that's been reverse engineered now). It's still hard to get all the pieces working with "clean" open code though.
The difference is mostly that PCs have decades of history of having an openly documented abstraction layer below which all the proprietary stuff is piled on, so it looks more open than the RPi which makes all the proprietary stuff more obvious and in your face.
Among ARM SBCs, the RPi used to be one of the least open ones. These days things are slightly better. It's still not great, but it's also hard to find alternatives that are much better. Nvidia Tegra boards are pretty good; you can run those with fully open source firmware these days, at least the X1 (the last bit missing was the DDR4 training code, but that's been reverse engineered now). It's still hard to get all the pieces working with "clean" open code though.
> The irony of this is that the RPi is far more closed and proprietary than regular PCs and their components
This is such a strangely obvious lie that it's hard to imagine why you would write it.
This is such a strangely obvious lie that it's hard to imagine why you would write it.
I love my RasPis, I got one of the first 10k made and have over ten devices myself, plus I've told hundreds of people to buy them.
I'm not a hater AT ALL.
Proprietary bootloader technology that Broadcom maintains is secret stopped the community hacking together USB boot, keeping us tied to bloody MicroSD cards and all the palava which is adherent to that. Proprietary GFX hardware which needs paid for codes to use (see comment earlier about Malaysia).
Everybody should buy one or more, but Broadcom do have control over their chips to a greater degree than I'm personally happy with.
I'm not a hater AT ALL.
Proprietary bootloader technology that Broadcom maintains is secret stopped the community hacking together USB boot, keeping us tied to bloody MicroSD cards and all the palava which is adherent to that. Proprietary GFX hardware which needs paid for codes to use (see comment earlier about Malaysia).
Everybody should buy one or more, but Broadcom do have control over their chips to a greater degree than I'm personally happy with.
The lie is in the comparison with "regular PCs."
> Proprietary bootloader technology that Broadcom maintains is secret stopped the community hacking together USB boot, keeping us tied to bloody MicroSD cards and all the palava which is adherent to that.
I get that you don't like this stuff you're complaining about. If you sincerely think this is any worse than the situation with "regular PCs," go look for the disk that came with your PC with the source code for your BIOS ROM.
(This is an aggravating one, since there are plenty of PCs in the world that could use a microcode patch via the BIOS right now)
> Proprietary GFX hardware which needs paid for codes to use (see comment earlier about Malaysia).
More open source code is available for more GPU functionality on the Pi than is available for the Nvidia graphics cards I've used for decades. That's not saying much, given how bad Nvidia is about this stuff, and how anemic the Pi GPU really is, but I'm not the one making these crazy comparisons.
It's like this with every aspect of this comparison. You need to be unaware of anything about how PCs are put together to buy it for a minute. PCs are full of proprietary stuff.
> Proprietary bootloader technology that Broadcom maintains is secret stopped the community hacking together USB boot, keeping us tied to bloody MicroSD cards and all the palava which is adherent to that.
I get that you don't like this stuff you're complaining about. If you sincerely think this is any worse than the situation with "regular PCs," go look for the disk that came with your PC with the source code for your BIOS ROM.
(This is an aggravating one, since there are plenty of PCs in the world that could use a microcode patch via the BIOS right now)
> Proprietary GFX hardware which needs paid for codes to use (see comment earlier about Malaysia).
More open source code is available for more GPU functionality on the Pi than is available for the Nvidia graphics cards I've used for decades. That's not saying much, given how bad Nvidia is about this stuff, and how anemic the Pi GPU really is, but I'm not the one making these crazy comparisons.
It's like this with every aspect of this comparison. You need to be unaware of anything about how PCs are put together to buy it for a minute. PCs are full of proprietary stuff.
What about AMD GPU's ?
They rely on proprietary firmware to work. Again, doesn't change much.
The main RPi OS isn't Linux, but ThreadX, which is closed source (and is now owned by Microsoft) :
https://ownyourbits.com/2019/02/02/whats-wrong-with-the-rasp...
That's firmware for the GPU, not "the main RPi OS."
The firmware for your PC or its GPU is almost certainly closed source as well.
The firmware for your PC or its GPU is almost certainly closed source as well.
Copyright continues to be a scourge on society. This was recognised decades ago by many people and yet here we still are.
All these moves to block make me want to discontinue some paid services and return to torrents. Just saying.
Infringement of what? Could they ever be more vague than that?
Ooooh I see it’s new trust and safety employee week at eBay.
Wait until PayPal bans them for life for the same thing using the exact same language. Fun times.
Wait until PayPal bans them for life for the same thing using the exact same language. Fun times.
eBay is the worst for so many reasons. I can’t believe no startup or even big tech company has tried to make a competing platform.
Really tough to overcome the network effect problem and build momentum. Who would use an online marketplace with few users?
fyfy18 already mentioned Facebook, but I'm not sure how serious they are with competing against eBay.
fyfy18 already mentioned Facebook, but I'm not sure how serious they are with competing against eBay.
Amazon and Craigslist are competitors and serve most people's online shopping needs.
Everyone used eBay like 20 years ago. Now, not so much.
Everyone used eBay like 20 years ago. Now, not so much.
Using Craigslist to sell is like the Wild West. There’s no rules or enforcement, and many criminals use it. I’m not going to risk getting robbed trying to sell my iPhone.
Amazon has locked out private selling for most mainstream items unless you’re a business with a PO directly from the manufacturer. Also, their fees get higher the more your item competes with their own sales. Totally anticompetitive.
Amazon has locked out private selling for most mainstream items unless you’re a business with a PO directly from the manufacturer. Also, their fees get higher the more your item competes with their own sales. Totally anticompetitive.
eBay and Adevinta are still (nearly) billion-dollar companies that compete for person-to-person transactions.
I imagine an auction-site like this is only as good as the number of people that are using it.
What issues do you have with it? I find it's not perfect, but it generally works reasonably well.
What issues do you have with it? I find it's not perfect, but it generally works reasonably well.
Their account interface is so out of date. Parts of it still require you to use an interface from the early 2000’s. It’s a nightmare to navigate.
The fees are high, and they even take a cut of your shipping fee. And yet, they still have 3rd party ads all over.
Their rules and policies are strange and one-sided, just like this one.
Poor customer support.
The fees are high, and they even take a cut of your shipping fee. And yet, they still have 3rd party ads all over.
Their rules and policies are strange and one-sided, just like this one.
Poor customer support.
Strong disagree. eBay has become a cesspool.
I finally rage-closed my account after carefully listing a thing, monitoring the auction, being happy when it sold, and then having the buyer casually tell me that they didn’t need it after all.
I remember when clicking the ‘make a bid’ button actually meant something. Wasn’t there even a warning along the lines of ‘you are entering in to a contractual obligation’?
I finally rage-closed my account after carefully listing a thing, monitoring the auction, being happy when it sold, and then having the buyer casually tell me that they didn’t need it after all.
I remember when clicking the ‘make a bid’ button actually meant something. Wasn’t there even a warning along the lines of ‘you are entering in to a contractual obligation’?
I sold an Apple IIgs that had a monitor in one of the photos to show it worked, but clearly explained that the monitor wasn't included in the first paragraph of the listing. Someone bid and then emailed me asking me to cancel their bid because they didn't realize it didn't include the monitor, having taken a closer look. THEN the next highest bidder won, and after winning they must have bothered to read the listing because they emailed and canceled theirs as well.
I'm not used to selling on eBay and was shocked that people are so careless. Apparently even for unusual vintage items they just glance at the photo and then bid.
I'm not used to selling on eBay and was shocked that people are so careless. Apparently even for unusual vintage items they just glance at the photo and then bid.
People don't read or skip half of what they read or misapprehend it this is a people problem not a platform problem.
Next time edit the photo to include large red text over top of the monitor saying monitor not included or better leave it out. Plan ahead for stupid because it is here to stay.
Next time edit the photo to include large red text over top of the monitor saying monitor not included or better leave it out. Plan ahead for stupid because it is here to stay.
It’s not a people problem. eBay used to make bidding or even Buy It Now a contractual obligation. If you bid/bought, and didn’t want it anymore it was too bad for you. You would be charged for it anyway or lose your account.
Yeah that's actually what I am planning on doing when I relist this. I was just amazed people would bid over $200 without reading anything. And I took great pains to write a clear description as well!
If it makes you feel better, ebay probably showed that listing to 10,000 people and the two people that just managed to fail to read because missed their coffee that morning were the first/highest bidders. Unlikely? Why? Of course they'd bid the most / the quickest: from their perspective you were offering a killer deal.
:)
There are platform specific stupidities, last I saw it their mobile interface almost hides the listing details... and on a lot of listings the details are worthless and not really worth looking at. But I think experiences like yours, which I've also had, are just the natural result of taking the most eager buyers out of a lot of candidates.
:)
There are platform specific stupidities, last I saw it their mobile interface almost hides the listing details... and on a lot of listings the details are worthless and not really worth looking at. But I think experiences like yours, which I've also had, are just the natural result of taking the most eager buyers out of a lot of candidates.
Why would you rage-anything? List it again or offer it to the second highest bidder. (If you really wanted you can probably successfully collect on the winning buyer but it may not be worth it.)
The rage-part might have been a slight exaggeration. But why would I use a platform that doesn’t work? The whole point of the damned place is to sell stuff, and recently – this wasn’t an isolated incident – I’ve found it to be markedly bad at doing that.
Me personally I can’t stand to give people money for a shitty service. eBay has become, in my opinion, a shitty service.
Me personally I can’t stand to give people money for a shitty service. eBay has become, in my opinion, a shitty service.
In the Netherlands people use marktplaats.nl much more than eBay.
However, marktplaats.nl is owned by eBay.
I didn't know that. I also don't know if they exert any influence policy-wise.
In France there's leboncoin.fr, also more active than eBay.
Yahoo Auctions tried, but they only won in Japan, and eventually shut down everywhere else. As eBay has shifted to buy it now, marketplace sites (amazon, walmart, newegg, aliexpress) compete to some degree.
Most of those marketplace sites don’t allow casual selling. Even Amazon’s Seller Central is slowly being restricted to only businesses.
I’ve been using Swappa for phones and consoles, and Bonanza for other things. But they’re still not mainstream.
I’ve been using Swappa for phones and consoles, and Bonanza for other things. But they’re still not mainstream.
There’s also Etsy. Originally was intended for hand made stuff but I think you can sell anything on there now.
eBay's seller fees are already not very friendly for casual selling of not very expensive items
Ebay pretty much doesnt exist in Poland. allegro.pl has local monopoly in similar way to Yahoo Japan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegro_(website)
They tried expanding to Czechia, Germany, Russia and Ukraine in 2015 but conceded defeat a year later.
They tried expanding to Czechia, Germany, Russia and Ukraine in 2015 but conceded defeat a year later.
In Czech Republic aukro and sbazar is very strong.
Probably because dealing with people selling lots of individual items does not scale well and eBay's issues are not easy to solve, even after decades.
This. It’s a massive effort to keep ebay somewhat respectable and busy. Small companies will struggle.
In my experience eBay is still the best for p2p auctions, but for anything vaguely commercial it's pretty dire.
You can sometimes find some bargains of people reselling from alibaba or whatever (FPGA boards can be had for cheap on eBay). In the UK at least, the listings are so unprofessional I don't understand why people would shop - usually no contact details, THE DESCRIPTION IS IN CAPSLOCK, and those stereotype word-art and product on white background photos.
You can sometimes find some bargains of people reselling from alibaba or whatever (FPGA boards can be had for cheap on eBay). In the UK at least, the listings are so unprofessional I don't understand why people would shop - usually no contact details, THE DESCRIPTION IS IN CAPSLOCK, and those stereotype word-art and product on white background photos.
eBay has a lot of different use cases. Although it was originally for selling your second hand junk, now I expect a lot of their sales come from new items.
In my country eBay doesn't exist (i.e. they don't have a localised site, you can sell on other country sites though). The main 'second hand junk' services are:
- a local version of Craisglist
- Facebook Groups (for hyper local listings, mainly for very cheap or free stuff, e.g. "I'm moving tomorrow, come get my half destroyed IKEA furniture")
- Vinted [0] - although it's intended for second hand clothes, a lot of people sell new items they bought in sales from other countries, so it's more like eBay in this retrospect
For new items Etsy (crafts and furniture) is quite popular.
For electronics Tindie (although it's custom / DIY, rather than 'random adapter that only 5 other people worldwide have bought this month'). Most of the time when I want some sort of electronics that I can't find elsewhere I will buy from eBay in another country (using a shipping service) or AliExpress (then wait 2 months).
[0] https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/27/vinted-the-second-hand-clo...
In my country eBay doesn't exist (i.e. they don't have a localised site, you can sell on other country sites though). The main 'second hand junk' services are:
- a local version of Craisglist
- Facebook Groups (for hyper local listings, mainly for very cheap or free stuff, e.g. "I'm moving tomorrow, come get my half destroyed IKEA furniture")
- Vinted [0] - although it's intended for second hand clothes, a lot of people sell new items they bought in sales from other countries, so it's more like eBay in this retrospect
For new items Etsy (crafts and furniture) is quite popular.
For electronics Tindie (although it's custom / DIY, rather than 'random adapter that only 5 other people worldwide have bought this month'). Most of the time when I want some sort of electronics that I can't find elsewhere I will buy from eBay in another country (using a shipping service) or AliExpress (then wait 2 months).
[0] https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/27/vinted-the-second-hand-clo...
Reverb.com is (was?) eating Ebay's lunch when it comes to musical instruments, but Ebay seems to be fighting back now.
I feel that this is the perfect opportunity to create a new auction site called “The Arrrr PIrate Bay”.
Tip: when a couple starts fighting around you in a coffee shop, turn off your laptop before watching them.
This comment just completely flew over my head. Please explain?
It's referring to Ross Ulbricht.
For context: FBI and DHS wanted access to data on Ross Ulbricht's laptop, which would be encrypted if the laptop is turned off, so they sent two undercover FBI agents to a library where Ross was, pretending to be a couple and staging a loud fight - distracting Ross enough to snatch his laptop while it was on.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ross-ulbricht-will-be-senten...
https://www.businessinsider.com/ross-ulbricht-will-be-senten...
It's called Aliexpress.
I've been gradually moving from Amazon to eBay to Aliexpress. Ironically, this happened because I got scammed on Amazon a few times. I figured if I was gonna get scammed, I might as well save a bit with eBay, and it seemed a bit more reliable. Then Aliexpress came out even cheaper, although shipping times are sometimes insane.
Aliexpress also has real human beings. I got scammed there once too, and the result was human, efficient, and chaotic (partial refund, on a product worth $0). All-in-all, it was a lot better than talking to Amazon's recently-useless reps, or eBay computers.
What's odd is Amazon had amazing customer service just a couple years back.
And if I need quality/genuine, I order direct from the vendor most of the time.
I've been gradually moving from Amazon to eBay to Aliexpress. Ironically, this happened because I got scammed on Amazon a few times. I figured if I was gonna get scammed, I might as well save a bit with eBay, and it seemed a bit more reliable. Then Aliexpress came out even cheaper, although shipping times are sometimes insane.
Aliexpress also has real human beings. I got scammed there once too, and the result was human, efficient, and chaotic (partial refund, on a product worth $0). All-in-all, it was a lot better than talking to Amazon's recently-useless reps, or eBay computers.
What's odd is Amazon had amazing customer service just a couple years back.
And if I need quality/genuine, I order direct from the vendor most of the time.
You can try that, but as soon as you interact with the real world and especially with payment processors in the real world, regulation ensues.
Which actual, real world regulation do you think legitimately leads to this removal of the RPi listings?
Sorry, I had no particular regulation in mind.
For the Pi, it's perhaps more about keeping other companies happy, companies with expensive lawyers, and not necessarily any specific regulation. But that's just my speculation.
I was going for the general sense that eBay isn't being an ass here because it's fun, but because cover-your-ass has been beaten into businesses over and over again.
Clever startups that want to do things better are possible. But they have to have real answers for what's different with them that will allow them to be better.
(Same for when someone is proposing to rewrite software to get rid of all of the cruft. Much of the cruft is actually consists of under-documented scars from battles with corner cases.)
For the Pi, it's perhaps more about keeping other companies happy, companies with expensive lawyers, and not necessarily any specific regulation. But that's just my speculation.
I was going for the general sense that eBay isn't being an ass here because it's fun, but because cover-your-ass has been beaten into businesses over and over again.
Clever startups that want to do things better are possible. But they have to have real answers for what's different with them that will allow them to be better.
(Same for when someone is proposing to rewrite software to get rid of all of the cruft. Much of the cruft is actually consists of under-documented scars from battles with corner cases.)
Encourage infringement of what? Methinks ebay just can't deal with conflict in any reasonable way, which is perfectly in line with their reputation of being a marketplace without any sane method of conflict resolution.
Sympathies to Little Bird, who don't seem to be retroPie resellers (I assume, what the source was). Raspberry pi's do seem to be listed on ebay.com.au...
Side note: wow are they expensive down under.
Side note: wow are they expensive down under.
I've only seen Pi's used for hobby projects.
Can someone help me understand what 'infringement' app/project they are accused of being used for?
My guess is Kodi and MAME boxes. They're big for retro gaming or media centers.
Although eBay's motivations are probably not benevolent, and the implementation of this policy harms a reputable distributor, I do think this is a good thing overall. There are several different authorized distributors of RPi; listing RPi on eBay simply offers another vector by which counterfeit/damaged/problematic devices can be sold, and the existence of a secondary market (eBay used buyers and sellers) for RPi also reduces the demand (revenue) for new devices. I buy mine directly from one of the authorized distributors provided by the project's website.
In your opinion, it's a good thing overall for ebay to ban a legitimate business over completely baseless copyright infringement claims because there might be a knock on effect causing some counterfeit manufacturers to get banned as well? What?
No, this is a terrible precedent. Ebay needs to explain what's going on here.
No, this is a terrible precedent. Ebay needs to explain what's going on here.
If I translate that from Snark to English, I get "In your opinion, is it a good thing overall for eBay to prevent a legitimate business from selling a particular hardware product, and claiming that it is due to a violation of one of their stated policies, because there could be positive implications for the community that uses that hardware product?"
My answer would be "yes." BTW it's the product that was removed, not the business itself.
One of the nice things about RPi is that it is cheap and commoditized. WYSIWYG. One of the bad things about knockoffs is that their faults and authenticity are not discoverable at first glance.
Also, I don't see what eBay needs to explain. They are preventing a product from being sold on their for-profit platform. You're talking about it like it's a Supreme Court decision and nobody wrote a majority opinion.
My answer would be "yes." BTW it's the product that was removed, not the business itself.
One of the nice things about RPi is that it is cheap and commoditized. WYSIWYG. One of the bad things about knockoffs is that their faults and authenticity are not discoverable at first glance.
Also, I don't see what eBay needs to explain. They are preventing a product from being sold on their for-profit platform. You're talking about it like it's a Supreme Court decision and nobody wrote a majority opinion.
I wonder when they'll ban laptops and PC's.
The ammount of infringement going on on those is off the charts.
The ammount of infringement going on on those is off the charts.
ebay has so much red tape to be able to post anything on there im surprised people still use it. Not to mention the fact that they take 15 percent of whatever you make, so any potential profit you thought you might make on selling something is diminished...
It might encourage an uptick in fraudulent PIs? It's a hot, easily-imitated item.
This is the most stupid thing I’ve ever read
So what are you, dear HN, going to do about it?
Is that a reference to a scene from Blues Brothers?
No. It's a request for someone to do something about it rather than just talk about it.
But also checked "TVs", and they are absolutely still selling those. TVs are like the number one item used for infringement. I am VERY confused.
And don't get me started about food. Without food, it's basically impossible to infringe, yet ebay allows all sorts of food listings.