Ask HN: How much do you contemplate per week?
Feel also free to mention methods, places and what have you.
128 comments
If you mean just 'thinking on things', pretty much all the time. I realized when I was younger I never felt 'bored' like everyone else seems to. I'm perfectly content to just sit and stare at the sky thinking of god knows what. Even my wife sometimes comes in and asks what I'm doing when I'm seemingly just sitting on the couch staring at the wall at times. The downsides are that I have trouble sleeping unassisted, as I'll just lay in bed thinking til the sun comes up, and also have trouble staying focused on movies or even conversation, as my mind will be elsewhere.
If you mean work/product/big picture specific... probably a few hours a week.
If you mean work/product/big picture specific... probably a few hours a week.
>The downsides are that I have trouble sleeping unassisted, as I'll just lay in bed thinking til the sun comes up, and also have trouble staying focused on movies or even conversation, as my mind will be elsewhere.
I'm the exact same way. Podcasts are a godsend. The trick is finding one that's just interesting enough to keep your attention, while simultaneously being just boring enough to fall asleep to. I find that really dry, technical historical lectures work great.
I'm the exact same way. Podcasts are a godsend. The trick is finding one that's just interesting enough to keep your attention, while simultaneously being just boring enough to fall asleep to. I find that really dry, technical historical lectures work great.
Oh, man. I do this, too, but mostly with youtube. I have discovered that Jim Al-Khalili, Brian Greene and Hannah Fry are too interesting to fall asleep to but that there are plenty of Royal Institute lectures that serve really well and have no, or very few, commercial insertions.
I fall asleep to Melvyn Bragg's In Our Time Discussions
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qykl/episodes/player
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qykl/episodes/player
Curiously, I have found that my own ability to lecture monotonously on some obstruse topic has (at one point or another) put every member of my family to sleep.
I've though about doing a podcast or something where I just read boring, impenetrable books to help people fall asleep.
I've though about doing a podcast or something where I just read boring, impenetrable books to help people fall asleep.
I agree completely. Commercials and flashy endings are to be avoided.
seems like you are like that guy from that movie life of Walter Mitty.
Based (loosely) on a short story of the same name. I really identified with the character.
Oof this hits for me. Maybe not as much during the day - my mind is running 110% all the time but I'm a very active person so I usually need to be _doing_ something too.
When it comes to falling asleep at night, and trying to sleep to a reasonable hour though, I'm SOL. No matter what time I wake up in the morning, that's the time I'm getting out of bed, because the second I'm awake my mind start churning through thoughts and what I could be accomplishing that day. Case in point - I didn't have anything to do before work this morning, so I would have loved to sleep in until ~7:30 to catch up on some sleep from waking up at 6am every day this week. 6:32am, wide awake in bed, no chance of going back to sleep.
I like it in some ways - I know I'm driven and motivated. But man I'd love to be able to turn it off sometimes.
When it comes to falling asleep at night, and trying to sleep to a reasonable hour though, I'm SOL. No matter what time I wake up in the morning, that's the time I'm getting out of bed, because the second I'm awake my mind start churning through thoughts and what I could be accomplishing that day. Case in point - I didn't have anything to do before work this morning, so I would have loved to sleep in until ~7:30 to catch up on some sleep from waking up at 6am every day this week. 6:32am, wide awake in bed, no chance of going back to sleep.
I like it in some ways - I know I'm driven and motivated. But man I'd love to be able to turn it off sometimes.
I'm exactly like you. I can just think for hours. Sometimes at the end of the day I wonder what I did and I can't find an answer, I spent almost all day wondering in my mind.
It can be a problem sometimes as you said, since I can't really pay attention in class, when someone is talking to me, reading a book, etc.
My solution to that aspect of time wasting is to write it down. I don't think I am unique in this aspect but sometimes my contemplations are circular, the deeper I go the more I have to rehash my thoughts, which wastes time.
I find it writing it down eliminates that problem significantly. Depending on the thought I follow two different approaches.
1. Write down what comes in mind, each thought a separate point. If it's causal, like A -> B -> C, I will re-arrange my typed up thoughts to match the pattern. So it works like a sorting queue for thoughts.
2. Mindmap. Usually when I am trying to think of all the likely scenarios, which ends up having multiple causal trees, and sometimes thinking about a 3rd dependency will make me think of a similar dependency on a different tree...that's when a lot of the cyclical thinking happens, so writing it down like a mindmap is like a weird breadth first approach.
I find it writing it down eliminates that problem significantly. Depending on the thought I follow two different approaches.
1. Write down what comes in mind, each thought a separate point. If it's causal, like A -> B -> C, I will re-arrange my typed up thoughts to match the pattern. So it works like a sorting queue for thoughts.
2. Mindmap. Usually when I am trying to think of all the likely scenarios, which ends up having multiple causal trees, and sometimes thinking about a 3rd dependency will make me think of a similar dependency on a different tree...that's when a lot of the cyclical thinking happens, so writing it down like a mindmap is like a weird breadth first approach.
If you get stuck on the infinite loop of actively trying to get to sleep, which does not work, try what I do: grab a book, forget about getting to sleep and assume you'll be reading it until morning. Usually I doze off in a couple of chapters. It helps to use an e-reader with low backlight.
That sounds nice, I just end up reading until far far too late and end up with only about 3hrs sleep, after I make an effort to stop at around 3ish and finally try and shut my eyes at 4.
Read until 4, then 6, then 9am. Sleep until 3pm, stay awake until noon the next day. And 3pm the day after that.
My day shifts forward by 3 hours per day.
My day shifts forward by 3 hours per day.
I've always been this way as well. This isn't considered normal behavior/thinking?
I can say it's rare for me to think introspectively like that. If I have a moment to reflect I almost always distract myself with my phone. My mind is on the moment unless I force it otherwise or right before bed.
Same here. Even the wife part. The hardest/funniest thing is trying to elaborate the source of my thoughts.
Me: brings out birthday cake, we sing happy birthday to my son
Wife: What are you thinking about?
Me: That doorknobs probably got invented before door handles.
Wife: ...
Then I have to explain that I was thinking about the kitchen door and the dining room, and how we removed it when we first moved in, and how I was holding the cake with both hands and then thought about the door because it would have been annoying to deal with a door knob while holding a cake, that lead me to think how our house uses doorknobs only, and it's part of the problem of opening doors...and yeah.
...as a side note, I was wrong, door handles were invented first. It's because the mechanism is easer and relies on gravity, instead of a mechanism doing it for you.
Me: brings out birthday cake, we sing happy birthday to my son
Wife: What are you thinking about?
Me: That doorknobs probably got invented before door handles.
Wife: ...
Then I have to explain that I was thinking about the kitchen door and the dining room, and how we removed it when we first moved in, and how I was holding the cake with both hands and then thought about the door because it would have been annoying to deal with a door knob while holding a cake, that lead me to think how our house uses doorknobs only, and it's part of the problem of opening doors...and yeah.
...as a side note, I was wrong, door handles were invented first. It's because the mechanism is easer and relies on gravity, instead of a mechanism doing it for you.
I also have contemplated doorknobs. I hate that the choice is between slippery round ones and hook-like ones. I'd like a slightly rounded dodecahedron, icosahedron, or 5 to 12 sided prism.
Have you tried crystal door knobs (or glass ones made to look like crystal)? They may have the shape you're looking for
I remember growing up in the UK having a few similar to this: https://www.wayfair.ca/Nostalgic-Warehouse--Clear-Crystal-Wa... if thats what you mean?
My grandparents house had those. They would loosen if turned the wrong way - and half the family is left handed! The right handers were always complaining that the doorknob was loose.
> ...as a side note, I was wrong, door handles were invented first. It's because the mechanism is easer and relies on gravity, instead of a mechanism doing it for you.
I was about to comment on this, having grown up in a house with latches that relied upon gravity to do their work. I currently live in a home which has handles on most of the doors, including the exterior doors. It's actually problematic for us because activating the handle also unlocks the deadbolt from the inside. Our dog has figured out how to open the handles, but he can't work a door knob. We rely upon a baby gate to keep him upstairs and away from the exterior door he can operate. He could easily jump the gate if he so desired (he's done it a few times without thinking while chasing one of our cats).
I was about to comment on this, having grown up in a house with latches that relied upon gravity to do their work. I currently live in a home which has handles on most of the doors, including the exterior doors. It's actually problematic for us because activating the handle also unlocks the deadbolt from the inside. Our dog has figured out how to open the handles, but he can't work a door knob. We rely upon a baby gate to keep him upstairs and away from the exterior door he can operate. He could easily jump the gate if he so desired (he's done it a few times without thinking while chasing one of our cats).
What would drive you to the conclusion that a complex, specialized mechanism was developed before literally the simplest solution anyone could imagine (a stick you pull on)?
Holding a cake.
Likewise and I've always been like this. Wife is a very hardworking woman who gets the job done physically and she thinks I waste a lot of my time contemplating, she rarely does so, she's a doer. But this is my way of getting stuff done and moving the needle, a lot of time I look like I am doing nothing but my brain has a life of its own. Some years ago, like 10 years to be more exact, I found the prefect outlet for this: contemplating while painting. Brain is free to go wherever it wants while paintings get done and now I have a way to justify all my contemplation.
This is great. What would you recommend for someone who wanted to get started painting?
(Particular books/videos? Kit? Or better to sit in on a local class?)
(Particular books/videos? Kit? Or better to sit in on a local class?)
There is a lot of helpful content on youtube but it does really depend on what you want to do. Sometimes it's good to start without any help. I personally wanted to explore and learn by myself and took my own approach to that. I'd been jamming guitars/keyboards/other instruments for some years before I took up painting and decided to take the same approach to painting: improvise and learn from the improvisation process, then look up a bit of theory and incorporate some of it, in small bits so. Sometimes the theory comes after you have learned something hands on and it fixates a concept, other times you truly get something later on. Here's the thing magic: At a painting session I fell into a chasm of peace where I felt completely free. I wasn't thinking of the painting itself, my hands were naturally doing what they were supposed to do but my mind was wondering in different places or was observing the whole thing without interfering. When the session was over, let's say the second day I was painting this whole thing didn't repeat and felt that what I was doing was frustrating, forced. I kept at it and in a couple days I fell into that again. Then I backtracked the steps and noted what it takes to get there: you need to warm up, be prepared in advance so you don't have to take main decisions, everything is at your fingertips for you to play with. You also have to not be interrupted. There is a feedback aspect in painting as well, and when you feel that what you do is uninspiring you should quickly move on and come back to it later. My solution for this was simple: work on many works at the same time. I start priming or applying the backgrounds (random colors make for different starting points) then go over with rough shapes switching from a painting to another while the previous ones are drying. Once in a while I spend more time on one that is moving forward but generally the cycling through them gets me quite far. But your experience may vary as this is your own journey so to speak and you are free to do whatever you wish to do.
Check out “paint by numbers”
Go watch Bob Ross videos.
I'm serious. He's not a great painter, his technique is not amazing -- but he shows you exactly what he is doing and talks about it continuously. For a beginner, that's pretty much perfect.
Note that there is nothing special about Bob Ross brand anything; if you've got a local art supply place, you really don't need to buy that brand.
I'm serious. He's not a great painter, his technique is not amazing -- but he shows you exactly what he is doing and talks about it continuously. For a beginner, that's pretty much perfect.
Note that there is nothing special about Bob Ross brand anything; if you've got a local art supply place, you really don't need to buy that brand.
> The primary indication, to my thinking, of a well-ordered mind is a man’s ability to remain in one place and linger in his own company
Seneca, Moral Letters to Lucil
Seneca, Moral Letters to Lucil
This is how I'm able to out for a quick jog/run and come back two or three hours later. My brain just switches to engineering mode and I start thinking about circuits, op amps, code architecture, milling, 3d printing, stories, plots, arguments...
Once I get past the "why am I running?" phase and my brain clicks over (usually about the same time my body switches from anaerobic to aerobic energy production), I just disappear into thought and time vanishes...
Once I get past the "why am I running?" phase and my brain clicks over (usually about the same time my body switches from anaerobic to aerobic energy production), I just disappear into thought and time vanishes...
>If you mean just 'thinking on things', pretty much all the time
I'm a very outgoing person, but I also crave alone time. I also require time before bed to let the thoughts in my brain run their course, and it does make it hard to actually fall asleep sometimes. I make sure to take time each day to simply sit and ponder.
I'm a very outgoing person, but I also crave alone time. I also require time before bed to let the thoughts in my brain run their course, and it does make it hard to actually fall asleep sometimes. I make sure to take time each day to simply sit and ponder.
> The downsides are that I have trouble sleeping unassisted, as I'll just lay in bed thinking til the sun comes up, and also have trouble staying focused on movies or even conversation, as my mind will be elsewhere.
I daydream a lot. But I (mostly) don't suffer from those side effects. Instead, a couple of years ago, I got myself trapped in a spiral of recurring daydreams which slowly removed me from active life - to the point where I found myself on the verge of financial ruin (because: lost interest in finding work). I managed to pull out of the spiral with the help of a psychotherapist, but it was a close-run thing. The scary thing was that I didn't notice I was spiralling until one day I found myself in tears because my bank account was empty and I genuinely had no idea about how to fix it. Those daydreams (personal historical what-if scenarios, mostly) were highly addictive!
I daydream a lot. But I (mostly) don't suffer from those side effects. Instead, a couple of years ago, I got myself trapped in a spiral of recurring daydreams which slowly removed me from active life - to the point where I found myself on the verge of financial ruin (because: lost interest in finding work). I managed to pull out of the spiral with the help of a psychotherapist, but it was a close-run thing. The scary thing was that I didn't notice I was spiralling until one day I found myself in tears because my bank account was empty and I genuinely had no idea about how to fix it. Those daydreams (personal historical what-if scenarios, mostly) were highly addictive!
I used to be like this until about roughly the same time as I got my first smartphone. Now I just have to fill my 'empty' time with watching, reading or scrolling of some sort, otherwise I'll start to get anxious and bored. I miss those days of daydreaming and contemplation, but I've found it very difficult to go back to not needing to look at screens.
I'm pretty much the same. Don't have much trouble sleeping though - if I just let the train of thought wander instead of concentrating on something specific, I find myself asleep pretty soon. I also have had an extraordinary luck of finding a wife that gets it, so when she finds me in one of those moments she knows what's going on.
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I can personally relate. Reading something simple, like fiction or an autobiography, is how I fall asleep at night. I let someone else (the author) do some thinking for me, so I can rest!
I've had a phenomenon occur to me this week that I've experienced a few times before.
I was stuck on a coding problem for the entire afternoon one day. For whatever reason things weren't clicking and I couldn't solve the problem I had. I went to bed and as I was waking up the next morning, the complete solution came to me.
I wasn't dreaming, but I was in that hazy half-awake half-asleep mode where I'm not consciously thinking about anything.
I've had this happen a few times before where I go to bed stuck on a problem and miraculously wake up with the solution. It's a very strange (but happy) feeling.
I was stuck on a coding problem for the entire afternoon one day. For whatever reason things weren't clicking and I couldn't solve the problem I had. I went to bed and as I was waking up the next morning, the complete solution came to me.
I wasn't dreaming, but I was in that hazy half-awake half-asleep mode where I'm not consciously thinking about anything.
I've had this happen a few times before where I go to bed stuck on a problem and miraculously wake up with the solution. It's a very strange (but happy) feeling.
I've had several nights where my dreams are just trying to solve programming problems, but in my experience it always breaks down and ends up useless because logic doesn't make sense in the dream. Everything in the dream is inconsistent and changes from one minute to the next, but some part of my brain is still trying to solve the problem.
The worst is dreaming and using emacs in the dream. I get around the code so fast because at this point it feels like an extension of my own mind, but in a dream state my brain can't make the code on the screen make anywhere close to as much sense and it doesn't react fast enough when I kill a line or jump around looking for a new block of code.
Also, just reading the text itself is alien. Because it's colourful and code-looking, but my mind can't quite get the monospacing right. So outside the direct bit of code I'm looking at, the code gets kinda blurry or wobbly.
Also, just reading the text itself is alien. Because it's colourful and code-looking, but my mind can't quite get the monospacing right. So outside the direct bit of code I'm looking at, the code gets kinda blurry or wobbly.
> Everything in the dream is inconsistent and changes from one minute to the next
That's something that can be very useful in problem solving. Helps you finding new ideas. The hard thing is grabbing this idea and waking yourself up when you strike gold.
That's something that can be very useful in problem solving. Helps you finding new ideas. The hard thing is grabbing this idea and waking yourself up when you strike gold.
I had one of these when I was in my early twenties. I had been trying to locate a persistent crash that seemed to occur randomly in a modem terminal written in 6502 assembly.
I'd been at this non-stop for weeks, and had been just working and sleeping, poring over and over the code with no clue. As I remember it, one night I was dreaming that the code was slowly scrolling up a screen in front of me, and one line was colored red. I woke up at that point and knew what the problem was. I think I just got dressed and went directly into work rather than try to go back to sleep.
Since then, I've had fresh insights after sleeping on a problem and coming back in the next day, but I've never had another instance of my brain saying "It's right here, you idiot!" to me in a dream.
I'd been at this non-stop for weeks, and had been just working and sleeping, poring over and over the code with no clue. As I remember it, one night I was dreaming that the code was slowly scrolling up a screen in front of me, and one line was colored red. I woke up at that point and knew what the problem was. I think I just got dressed and went directly into work rather than try to go back to sleep.
Since then, I've had fresh insights after sleeping on a problem and coming back in the next day, but I've never had another instance of my brain saying "It's right here, you idiot!" to me in a dream.
This happens to me all the time, especially when I get stuck on a programming problem. It's counter-intuitive, but sometimes the best approach is to take a step back and stop actively thinking about it.
If you're more interested in this phenomenon, I recommend reading "A Mind For Numbers" by Barbara Oakley [1].
She calls it "the diffuse mode" and it's useful for spotting similarities and making connections between different concepts and ideas. This is difficult to do in "the focused mode", when you're analytically working on a problem.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Numbers-Science-Flunked-Algebra-...
If you're more interested in this phenomenon, I recommend reading "A Mind For Numbers" by Barbara Oakley [1].
She calls it "the diffuse mode" and it's useful for spotting similarities and making connections between different concepts and ideas. This is difficult to do in "the focused mode", when you're analytically working on a problem.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Numbers-Science-Flunked-Algebra-...
Sounds like you found this trick: https://www.fastcompany.com/3023078/how-dali-einstein-and-ar...
Reminded me of the (possibly untrue/exaggerated) story of the sewing machine needle:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dreams#The_sewing_ma...
Plenty of other great dreams * on that page.
* I know you weren't dreaming exactly, but why let that get in the way? :)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dreams#The_sewing_ma...
Plenty of other great dreams * on that page.
* I know you weren't dreaming exactly, but why let that get in the way? :)
I first experienced that with calculus in high school. I would keep paper and pen on the nightstand to capture middle of the night thoughts. Sometimes it was jibberish, but often enough was a good chunk of a solution. Happened with some complex bugs too, but I’ve not had it happen in a number of years now. Maybe I’m not working on complex enough problems now.
Happens to me all the time, with all kinds of things
I'll grind leetcode and be stuck on a problem and wake up the next day and be able to do the problem.
I'll study new information and wake up the next day and that information is intuitive.
I'll practice guitar for hours and be unable to consistently play a certain riff then wake up the next day and be able to play it effortlessly.
Strange what sleep does.
I'll grind leetcode and be stuck on a problem and wake up the next day and be able to do the problem.
I'll study new information and wake up the next day and that information is intuitive.
I'll practice guitar for hours and be unable to consistently play a certain riff then wake up the next day and be able to play it effortlessly.
Strange what sleep does.
Happened many times. One time I actually debugged a Perl script in my dream!
happens to me all the time. i'll also often return from a dog walk with several potential solutions to try.
I wake up at 6:30am and feed my cats. Then I sit in a comfortable chair with my journal and Bible and stare out the window and I journal and contemplate and read and write and pray.
I used to do this with coffee, but I found the caffeine was actually shifting my energy window forward, even shortening it. Now I'll do calisthenics and spend a few minutes outside, taking deep breaths, if I need to wakeup before I sit down.
The amount of time varies, depending on what's going on in my life. I may spend more time journaling, note taking, reading, or just staring out the window and chewing on the thought. I have sessions that last fifteen minutes and others that last three hours.
I used to do this with coffee, but I found the caffeine was actually shifting my energy window forward, even shortening it. Now I'll do calisthenics and spend a few minutes outside, taking deep breaths, if I need to wakeup before I sit down.
The amount of time varies, depending on what's going on in my life. I may spend more time journaling, note taking, reading, or just staring out the window and chewing on the thought. I have sessions that last fifteen minutes and others that last three hours.
That's super fascinating. Does praying enrich your life? Do you think it's something you could replace with meditation?
It absolutely does. I've been praying pretty consistently since I was very young, around 5 years old.
When I discovered that wasn't normal for everyone, even people I go to church with, I was pretty surprised.
When I started meditating a few years back, I took to it like a duck in water. I had no problem doing 20-30 minutes right away.
But I don't get the same thing out of it that I do out of prayer. Meditation is like local maintenance - a reboot or a defrag. Prayer is more like a software update, connecting back to the home server for bug fixes and feature upgrades.
It's the feeling of being connected to something greater than yourself that seems to be the key difference.
When I discovered that wasn't normal for everyone, even people I go to church with, I was pretty surprised.
When I started meditating a few years back, I took to it like a duck in water. I had no problem doing 20-30 minutes right away.
But I don't get the same thing out of it that I do out of prayer. Meditation is like local maintenance - a reboot or a defrag. Prayer is more like a software update, connecting back to the home server for bug fixes and feature upgrades.
It's the feeling of being connected to something greater than yourself that seems to be the key difference.
> Meditation is like local maintenance - a reboot or a defrag. Prayer is more like a software update, connecting back to the home server for bug fixes and feature upgrades.
This is a brilliant analogy.
This is a brilliant analogy.
When I was in college and I was in the Ultimate Frisbee club we played with a group of young Christians and it seemed very much to me like meditation (something I was more familiar with) and prayer were very similar. The concept of God may just make it more pointed, or more like a conversation.
Thanks for the share. You may want to check out Anthony De Mello if these are things you enjoy, I've been enjoying his meditations very much lately. Found out about him on HackerNews. He does Christian meditations with an Eastern style. But there's very little that is preachy about them.
Thanks for the share. You may want to check out Anthony De Mello if these are things you enjoy, I've been enjoying his meditations very much lately. Found out about him on HackerNews. He does Christian meditations with an Eastern style. But there's very little that is preachy about them.
it seemed very much to me like meditation (something I was more familiar with) and prayer were very similar. The concept of God may just make it more pointed, or more like a conversation.
Yes, if I was going to introduce a non-Christian to prayer, that's pretty much how I'd describe it. There definite similarities, but with clear differences that make it more like a dialogue.
I'll look into Anthony De Mello, thanks for the heads up.
Yes, if I was going to introduce a non-Christian to prayer, that's pretty much how I'd describe it. There definite similarities, but with clear differences that make it more like a dialogue.
I'll look into Anthony De Mello, thanks for the heads up.
> It's the feeling of being connected to something greater than yourself
Well said. I find it interesting that I feel the same towards the Universe. Maybe that's why I never felt the need for a deity.
Well said. I find it interesting that I feel the same towards the Universe. Maybe that's why I never felt the need for a deity.
Praying is a form of meditation. In Hinduism a short prayer called the gayatri mantra is repeated 108 times, three times a day and this is supposed to improve your focus.
What do you mean by "shifting the energy window forward"? Can you elaborate?
When I don't drink coffee, it might take several hours for my mind to hit peak alertness, performance levels, but it when I do finally hit my stride, it seems to last longer.
When I drink coffee, I hit peak alertness/performance in 10-15 minutes, but then I'm crashing by early afternoon, sometimes even before that.
So the window in which I'm most alert and highest performing seems to shift when I drink coffee, rather than widen, say, 7:00am-1:00pm with coffee, for a 6 hour windows, compared to 9:00am-6:00pm without it, for a 9 hour window, but it's not open until later in the day.
When I drink coffee, I hit peak alertness/performance in 10-15 minutes, but then I'm crashing by early afternoon, sometimes even before that.
So the window in which I'm most alert and highest performing seems to shift when I drink coffee, rather than widen, say, 7:00am-1:00pm with coffee, for a 6 hour windows, compared to 9:00am-6:00pm without it, for a 9 hour window, but it's not open until later in the day.
My job is contemplating. I am a director at a well-funded startup. My day is meetings, design, and thinking. Cannabis helps me relax in the evening, and that's when I decompress and let my brain figure out the next steps I need to take across my projects, write explanatory documents, etc. I have to pay extra attention to health and sleep so that I can have more control over my focus and reliably transition my mind to family time.
In general, patience, strategy, and self-motivation have helped me achieve goals I would never have dreamed of 10 years ago.
In general, patience, strategy, and self-motivation have helped me achieve goals I would never have dreamed of 10 years ago.
I am enjoying the same experience.
My day at work is collecting information, and then during walks and dinner, while watching sports, before falling asleep, it's all daydreaming about work.
This may sound like a bummer to some people, but I couldn't really think of a better way to spend my day than by playing a business strategy sim in my head.
I also recognize the advantages of healthful, hygienic habits.
My day at work is collecting information, and then during walks and dinner, while watching sports, before falling asleep, it's all daydreaming about work.
This may sound like a bummer to some people, but I couldn't really think of a better way to spend my day than by playing a business strategy sim in my head.
I also recognize the advantages of healthful, hygienic habits.
I find the best way is walking in the woods, with no people around. I do that 3-4 times a week for 40-90 minutes. Usually with the dog. It helps to have a long retractable leash attached to my waist, so I don't have to hold it or negotiate every clump of grass she wants to sniff.
I can think through some smaller issues in my office, leaned back in my chair, feet up on my desk. But it's easy to get sucked back into the screen.
I can think through some smaller issues in my office, leaned back in my chair, feet up on my desk. But it's easy to get sucked back into the screen.
Are you able to walk at normal pace when you do this? I've found that if I want to do any real thinking that I need to walk at a slow dill-dally, "putting around" pace. If I walk normal pace I can't seem to achieve any meaningful level of thought.
This could just be either because I'm distracted easily and the fast I'm walking the quicker I'm exposed to new stimulation to steal my attention or because when you walk faster you need to pay more attention to your step, not really sure.
This could just be either because I'm distracted easily and the fast I'm walking the quicker I'm exposed to new stimulation to steal my attention or because when you walk faster you need to pay more attention to your step, not really sure.
I think I do my best thinking when jogging slowly.
I do the same thing. There is a nature preserve that is a 12 minute walk from me. I am the only person there with the swans and the ducks. It is amazing to just have the natural peace to think through things.
For those of you who struggle with going to sleep due to racing mind, this practice helps me:
I sometimes have brief moments of hyper-awareness as I approach sleep, where sounds are rich and images vividly detailed, but as soon as I attend to the experience it fades, like the wood-elf party in The Hobbit[0]. After reading about how USAF pilots used to be coached in the 1940s to fall asleep quickly (by flexing and relaxing body parts)[sorry, no reference yet], I started trying/not-trying to sneak up on the elves. One way I set the stage is to imagine my consciousness at the edge of the solar system, then galaxy, then universe, and further and further, then holding it there longer and longer. Another way is to look at the colors inside of my eyelids and allow those to be seeds for abstract art and eventually concrete, recognizable images materialize. This took about two years of practice and now I have no anxiety about falling asleep, can do it quickly and without nagging my partner to turn the light off. It is such a delight to finally see and hear the previously-elusive autogenous art. I don’t know how long the experience lasts, and unless I’m interrupted by a loud noise or touch it almost always leads directly to sleep.
Other factors: I’ve been off alcohol for more than a year, and reduced coffee to hot water added to the dregs of my spouse’s French press. I don’t run as much as I used to, and I feel running and lifting more would help me sleep better. Good luck!
[0] https://www.worldcat.org/title/hobbit/
I sometimes have brief moments of hyper-awareness as I approach sleep, where sounds are rich and images vividly detailed, but as soon as I attend to the experience it fades, like the wood-elf party in The Hobbit[0]. After reading about how USAF pilots used to be coached in the 1940s to fall asleep quickly (by flexing and relaxing body parts)[sorry, no reference yet], I started trying/not-trying to sneak up on the elves. One way I set the stage is to imagine my consciousness at the edge of the solar system, then galaxy, then universe, and further and further, then holding it there longer and longer. Another way is to look at the colors inside of my eyelids and allow those to be seeds for abstract art and eventually concrete, recognizable images materialize. This took about two years of practice and now I have no anxiety about falling asleep, can do it quickly and without nagging my partner to turn the light off. It is such a delight to finally see and hear the previously-elusive autogenous art. I don’t know how long the experience lasts, and unless I’m interrupted by a loud noise or touch it almost always leads directly to sleep.
Other factors: I’ve been off alcohol for more than a year, and reduced coffee to hot water added to the dregs of my spouse’s French press. I don’t run as much as I used to, and I feel running and lifting more would help me sleep better. Good luck!
[0] https://www.worldcat.org/title/hobbit/
You might be thinking of this[0] 1981 book which claims similar for the Navy. I've personally used this same technique taught to me by some random from IRC who claimed to be an ex-con, and despite his questionable credentials it has legitimate results. I believe I've read about it in at least one science fiction novel, too.
[0]: https://archive.org/details/Relax-and-Win_Championship-Perfo...
[0]: https://archive.org/details/Relax-and-Win_Championship-Perfo...
For me, I learned back in middle school that imagining an erotic
fantasy would drive away any real thoughts and make me sleep almost instantly.
Before the pandemic, I would walk 45 minutes to and from the office each day. It was magnificent time to think. I’d often leave the office thinking about a thorny technical problem, and on the way home, inspiration would strike. That happened so often that I started noticing it was always at the same point on my walk home. I’d see that place up ahead and privately joke to myself, “I’m about to have a great idea!” Then I’d forget about my private joke and go back to thinking and walking. Then I’d have a great idea! Sure enough, it was at that same spot.
The spot wasn’t magic. I’m convinced that it was the amount of time I spent walking. It was enough to start loosening my tight mental grip on the problem and let my mind roam. That relaxed mental processing was immeasurably valuable.
In a few weeks, I’m choosing to go back to office. What I’m looking forward to most is reaching that spot on my walk home.
The spot wasn’t magic. I’m convinced that it was the amount of time I spent walking. It was enough to start loosening my tight mental grip on the problem and let my mind roam. That relaxed mental processing was immeasurably valuable.
In a few weeks, I’m choosing to go back to office. What I’m looking forward to most is reaching that spot on my walk home.
I'm really into mindfulness. I downloaded the Calm App[1] recently, and it has been really beneficial. I feel like Alan Watts[2] would be really into it, if he was alive today (RIP).
My routine is waking up at 6AM, taking a cold shower, and then sitting down on the tile of the bathroom, freezing cold, and thinking about my next startup. I feel like this is my way of Beating the Averages[3].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calm_(company)
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts
[3] http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html
My routine is waking up at 6AM, taking a cold shower, and then sitting down on the tile of the bathroom, freezing cold, and thinking about my next startup. I feel like this is my way of Beating the Averages[3].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calm_(company)
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts
[3] http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html
Wake up, coffee, start working until I get stumped, lunch, work until stumped again, take a half hour walk or shower, then depending on the time either take detailed notes about my ideas or put them into code. If a problem is too big to chew in those breaks then thinking about it _is_ the “work” for the day.
To actually answer the question, probably around 6hrs per week. I work on half wacky theoretical idea projects and half code monkey implementation
To actually answer the question, probably around 6hrs per week. I work on half wacky theoretical idea projects and half code monkey implementation
Define "contemplate" :)
Carved out time to "sit and think"? I consider this a suspect method, because undirected thinking on demand is difficult. (It might work for you. It doesn't for me)
Carved out time to contemplate a specific problem? Depends on how many big problems are at the stage where that makes sense. I'd say 1-4h/week.
Making random connections and sort-of daydreaming about them for 5 minutes? All day, every day. It ends up in a commonplace book. I don't currently review the book, the act of taking the note alone is valuable enough. If I notice I keep thinking about something, I transfer it into a doc and grep through that during directed sessions.
Carved out time to "sit and think"? I consider this a suspect method, because undirected thinking on demand is difficult. (It might work for you. It doesn't for me)
Carved out time to contemplate a specific problem? Depends on how many big problems are at the stage where that makes sense. I'd say 1-4h/week.
Making random connections and sort-of daydreaming about them for 5 minutes? All day, every day. It ends up in a commonplace book. I don't currently review the book, the act of taking the note alone is valuable enough. If I notice I keep thinking about something, I transfer it into a doc and grep through that during directed sessions.
Often. I read a lot of philosophy type books and often think about them when I'm idle. I often subject my partner to my contemplation, and thankfully they're willing to engage.
Ill sit in the shower sometimes for hours and just think.
I have to be careful that the thinking doesn't turn into unsubstantiated worry and fretting though.
I have to manage my thoughts.
I have to be careful that the thinking doesn't turn into unsubstantiated worry and fretting though.
I have to manage my thoughts.
I have structured and unstructured contemplation.
I journal every morning right after I write my to-do for the day, which is pretty much self-reflections.
I also have a weekly review on Sundays where I reflect on my week, what I did well, what kind of sucked etc.
For work, I contemplate first, then write code second. A lot of times I do it while typing my thoughts. An actual example after a failed test
I journal every morning right after I write my to-do for the day, which is pretty much self-reflections.
I also have a weekly review on Sundays where I reflect on my week, what I did well, what kind of sucked etc.
For work, I contemplate first, then write code second. A lot of times I do it while typing my thoughts. An actual example after a failed test
> FAILED: the container doesn't have git so it can't run...so that means git tagging should happen prior to the gradle or docker container...
> I kind of like this because that means it will only have to happen once outside both workflows....which eliminates a bunch of the issues
> I need an init workflow in a way....checkout workflow
> I can't test this, I think test jenkins pushing to prod gitlab is causing issues. Commented it out.
To contemplate words for a moment, the phrase is "pique my interest".
"Pique" is an odd word. "Pique my interest" is a positive thing but "a fit of pique" or just feeling piqued are negative.
"Pique" is an odd word. "Pique my interest" is a positive thing but "a fit of pique" or just feeling piqued are negative.
Thanks. I updated the spelling. English as a second language has created a weird discrepancy in my brain for words that sound the same, but are written differently.
not - knot
where - were
...and now peak - pique
At least I don't confuse "you are" vs "your".
Now explain plurals to me:
cat - cats
dog - dogs
bird - birds
mouse - mice <--- why?
goose - geese
moose - moose <--- why not meese?
not - knot
where - were
...and now peak - pique
At least I don't confuse "you are" vs "your".
Now explain plurals to me:
cat - cats
dog - dogs
bird - birds
mouse - mice <--- why?
goose - geese
moose - moose <--- why not meese?
I think it’s the Germanic roots bleeding through.
A “German” way to pluralize a noun is to “open up” the vowel, and occasionally add an “uh” at the end, for effect.
Maus -> Mäuse (kind of sounds like mice, listen to Google translate)
For moose, it would be spelt “muse” in German, which would be pluralized “müse”.
But umlaut does not exist in English, we use “oo” for “u”, and the “uh” is silent: so we get “moos” and “moos” :)
Also, apparently moose is an Algonquian loanword! TIL. Perhaps the plural in Algonquian dialects was not distinguishable to English speakers in the 1600s.
A “German” way to pluralize a noun is to “open up” the vowel, and occasionally add an “uh” at the end, for effect.
Maus -> Mäuse (kind of sounds like mice, listen to Google translate)
For moose, it would be spelt “muse” in German, which would be pluralized “müse”.
But umlaut does not exist in English, we use “oo” for “u”, and the “uh” is silent: so we get “moos” and “moos” :)
Also, apparently moose is an Algonquian loanword! TIL. Perhaps the plural in Algonquian dialects was not distinguishable to English speakers in the 1600s.
Oftentimes when I'm working on a problem I lie on the floor face down and think about it for hours.
In terms of what you might call "mentally detoxifying contemplation", physical work on my house and yard and whatnot is great. I think the mentally salubrious effects of hard work are the real deal and too much overlooked these days.
In terms of what you might call "mentally detoxifying contemplation", physical work on my house and yard and whatnot is great. I think the mentally salubrious effects of hard work are the real deal and too much overlooked these days.
I'm curious, how do you lay face down? Do you turn your head sideways or have a special pillow? It sounds painful to me.
Yeah I guess not technically face down, I turn my head sideways.
Now that you mention this i can remember the effects of physical, repetive work. It is actually quite different to working out/excercise. Wonder why...
Interesting topic.
I've recently started to re-connect with acquaintances around the globe via virtual coffee meetings (video calls), and with a steaming pot of hot liquid in tow (even decaf does the job, it's more about holding on to something steaming than caffeine for me) this can be quite contemplative. I try to do one such call per week, typically towards the end of the week, and often I manage, occasionally not when work is too crazy.
It's not as good as physical travel to see people, of course, but we all need to make the best of the current situation. (Speaking of travel, train rides and walking are great activities to foster contemplating - see also https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philosophy-Walking-Frederic-Gros/dp... ).
BTW, stay safe, all!
I've recently started to re-connect with acquaintances around the globe via virtual coffee meetings (video calls), and with a steaming pot of hot liquid in tow (even decaf does the job, it's more about holding on to something steaming than caffeine for me) this can be quite contemplative. I try to do one such call per week, typically towards the end of the week, and often I manage, occasionally not when work is too crazy.
It's not as good as physical travel to see people, of course, but we all need to make the best of the current situation. (Speaking of travel, train rides and walking are great activities to foster contemplating - see also https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philosophy-Walking-Frederic-Gros/dp... ).
BTW, stay safe, all!
Think about this. Imagine a gambler that wins a game and wants to keep his money. Then he stops and never plays ever again in the same casino. But he wants to win some more money. So what if he takes his money to another casino? He could lose or win. Let's say he wins again, and goes around the city playing in different casinos. In the long run his earned money will be 0. So, it's better to win once in the first casino and then stop.
The gambler dies, and his son gets the money. Now his son is a new gambler who lives in a different city. If he plays in other casinos he could win or lose, but in the long run his earned money will be 0 too.
It means that for a gambler to actually win he must win only once, then he must not play ever again, or any other gambler with his money, since entropy is "connected" to that money, because money makes part of the same system.
The gambler dies, and his son gets the money. Now his son is a new gambler who lives in a different city. If he plays in other casinos he could win or lose, but in the long run his earned money will be 0 too.
It means that for a gambler to actually win he must win only once, then he must not play ever again, or any other gambler with his money, since entropy is "connected" to that money, because money makes part of the same system.
I used to work with a guy who said "Friday is for big thoughts". I live by that now, and each week I don't do much actual work on Friday, instead opting to think about the work I did earlier in the week, and to intentionally think about what I'll do the following week.
I can "think" for a long time, but my peculiarity is that I think with my hands. So I make things, and play music. Also, I'm terribly disorganized, and I speculate that making things, even programs, is a way of helping my brain with organization.
About a third of my waking life is spent contemplating. It has been this way for a couple of years.
Overall it has been productive. I've explored countless ideas, learned about new topics, articulated my views, understood concepts and viewpoints I disagree with, changed my mind on some both ways in the process. It has been a little counterproductive. It is easy to get lost in your own head after a while. Overall I wouldn't recommend spending so much time in deep thought, but spending a decent amount at least for some period in your life will really help you discover who you are, who other people are, and things about the world around you that you wouldn't otherwise.
Overall it has been productive. I've explored countless ideas, learned about new topics, articulated my views, understood concepts and viewpoints I disagree with, changed my mind on some both ways in the process. It has been a little counterproductive. It is easy to get lost in your own head after a while. Overall I wouldn't recommend spending so much time in deep thought, but spending a decent amount at least for some period in your life will really help you discover who you are, who other people are, and things about the world around you that you wouldn't otherwise.
Journalling twice a day: post waking up and pre-sleeping. Meditation: once a day for 15 mins. Whenever I am stuck on a problem, idea or try to digest a paper.
So overall 10-20 hrs a week, with the third outlet consuming the maximum time
So overall 10-20 hrs a week, with the third outlet consuming the maximum time
Depends if you mean on purpose or accidentally.
Because I contemplate on purpose perhaps once or twice per week, where I lie down and think a little about life.
But the accidental ones, those are the real deal. As an ever fateful watchmen, just when I stray a little, a wild thought pops in my head which takes my focus for at least half an hour, where my imagination goes wild on the ride.
I would say it happens once or twice per day at least, and I must say that I noticed it became more often after I started listening to audiobooks. I don't know exactly why, but I would assume it stirs the imagination?
But the accidental ones, those are the real deal. As an ever fateful watchmen, just when I stray a little, a wild thought pops in my head which takes my focus for at least half an hour, where my imagination goes wild on the ride.
I would say it happens once or twice per day at least, and I must say that I noticed it became more often after I started listening to audiobooks. I don't know exactly why, but I would assume it stirs the imagination?
at the moment, my formal meditation practice is 3 hours per day. 60 mins on wake, 30 mins before bed, and 15m/30m sits punctuating transitions throughout the day.
for me, contemplation occurs in the echoes of meditation.
for me, contemplation occurs in the echoes of meditation.
I journal most nights pretty much about whatever is bothering me emotionally. This helps me get it out there and be more conscious of underlying emotions. A lot of stress for me comes from bottling up emotions...
Also i like to go on long runs with no headphones. This helps me step back and process whatever is happening and think of new approaches to rough problems when I’m not in the weeds of the problem.
Anything that triggers boredom, IMO, is a healthy tool. Sometimes thats a day off in solitude on a long hike. Other times it’s just a vacation where I don’t bring my laptop.
Also i like to go on long runs with no headphones. This helps me step back and process whatever is happening and think of new approaches to rough problems when I’m not in the weeds of the problem.
Anything that triggers boredom, IMO, is a healthy tool. Sometimes thats a day off in solitude on a long hike. Other times it’s just a vacation where I don’t bring my laptop.
Unless I’m focused on something very specific, almost always. I enjoy it.
Once or twice a week i choose to not take the bike to work but rather walk instead. Id lucky this puts me in a somewhat inspiring contemplative state for 30 min. Not much room/time elsewhere.
I used to have an hour commute of mostly highway driving. Almost as good for contemplation as walking.
I'm not sure if it counts as "contemplation," but I spend a lot of ideas pre-packaging responses to the various beliefs I have that are unintuitive and therefor will make me look dumb (or evil) if expressed poorly.
I used to think about the future and dreams and stuff... nowadays, I don't think I'll ever really find a place I fit. So I live in the mountains, and nature is very good up here.
I used to think about the future and dreams and stuff... nowadays, I don't think I'll ever really find a place I fit. So I live in the mountains, and nature is very good up here.
[deleted]
I've started contemplating less and less and started almost immediately asking for feedback, even on tiny nuggets of an idea. If my knowledge is limited to the point where I have to wonder about something, there is likely someone out there who already knows the answer :)
Finding them is the hard part, but people love connecting information-havers with information-seekers!
I also contemplate a lot, to a point where I feel different about it and always have. I've always assumed it's related to add.
A lot. Find it impossible to listen to music because I start thinking and then have to turn the music down to focus on my thoughts.
One thing I've noticed is that thinking is like a habit. It does not matter what topic I think about, I can sit there and be in my thoughts for days and sometimes even weeks.
One thing I've noticed is that thinking is like a habit. It does not matter what topic I think about, I can sit there and be in my thoughts for days and sometimes even weeks.
Contemplation for me is a sign of something is missing or not totally dialed in in my life.
Or it can be that i need to process something emotionally.
I believe it is healthy to spent time on. It's your therapy some how.
Or it can be that i need to process something emotionally.
I believe it is healthy to spent time on. It's your therapy some how.
Went in an all afternoon hike yesterday up to a mountain lake as soon as my afternoon meetings were done. Thought about the life universe and everything. It was great, going to do it more.
10-ish hrs a week.
Methods:
* Long conversations with a fellow contemplator * Long replies to certain intriguing ideas on internet forums with fellow contemplators * Also digesting as a subconscious activity all the time
Methods:
* Long conversations with a fellow contemplator * Long replies to certain intriguing ideas on internet forums with fellow contemplators * Also digesting as a subconscious activity all the time
HN, right?
Not really. HN is rarely conductive for longer conversations, although the ones I do have are always high quality.
A couple of subs on reddit are my go-to place for these conversations. However, I'd rather have them stay niche (15k-ish subs) than have them blow up and lose their charm.
A couple of subs on reddit are my go-to place for these conversations. However, I'd rather have them stay niche (15k-ish subs) than have them blow up and lose their charm.
Alan Watts on Thinking https://youtu.be/gbngLDPSaDw
Most of my free time I'd say, so probably depends on how much free time there is, hopefully a lot.
I try to avoid contemplation except when I am in front of my computer because that is where it is easiest to transition from contemplating something to taking actions about that thing.
(An example of an action would be my setting a reminder for me to contemplate further in the future.)
(An example of an action would be my setting a reminder for me to contemplate further in the future.)
0%
The Internet has rob me of that.
The Internet has rob me of that.
It's true for me too. Especially because of internet connected smartphones, when there's free time I waste it reading other people's thoughts instead of creating my own. I would not be the person I am today if I grew up in this new world. I actually enjoy it when I get bored these days.
Every 3 hours, when I smoked a joint
At least two weeks.
Hey, that's my job as a CEO, woohooo
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5 days a week excluding sleep, but I often contemplate in my dreams too. it's a curse