Alex Honnold: The Soloist VR(thesoloist-vr.com)
thesoloist-vr.com
Alex Honnold: The Soloist VR
https://thesoloist-vr.com/
138 comments
'Future' is an odd term, console game exclusivity has been a fact of life for 40+ years.
This is why I'm not too worried. I believe general purpose has an innate advantage due to versitility. PC is still around and still great for high performance gaming. Sure there are exclusives but that doesn't mean I can't play them on PC. Just means that some large company doesn't want me to and I'll happily ignore them like so many others. They may Sue me but it's not going to have a real effect unless they start catching way more people or making the fines unbearably huge.
I won't give up the fight against exclusivity because my side isn't the uphill fight.
I won't give up the fight against exclusivity because my side isn't the uphill fight.
But in the video game industry you have PCs as a pressure valve for people who don't want to be locked entirely into a single company's walled garden. I've been looking for something similar for headsets (albeit not that hard - I welcome someone to correct me on this) and so far haven't seen any commercial options that are free of a single-company chokehold.
I'm not sure if even Google Cardboard qualifies since I'm not sure if you could distribute those through alternative app "stores" like F-Droid.
I'm not sure if even Google Cardboard qualifies since I'm not sure if you could distribute those through alternative app "stores" like F-Droid.
Dedicated fans can get around console exclusivity, as long as you're willing to wait a couple years. I wonder when we'll see the first VR headset emulator?
There already exists software [0] to let you play quest games on steamvr/windows mixed reality, but you still have to use the oculus store unless you pirate the games.
[0] https://github.com/LibreVR/Revive
[0] https://github.com/LibreVR/Revive
That at least made some technical sense up until recently.
The future of VR if it takes off, I guess.
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I think VR is already there unfortunately, and that it's one of the things holding back wider scale adoption. On PC there's Revive which lets you play Oculus games on other headsets which is great, but it requires a little setup so most consumers aren't going to do it, and if Meta/FB decided tomorrow to remove accounts using it there'd be no recourse. So there are effectively arbitrary silos between hardware/stores on PC already, and any console headsets are unlikely to support OpenVR which further restricts the potential market for the devices and games. Arbitrary software and hardware exclusivity at this stage only seems to be serving the goal of some companies trying to dominate the market
Normal people don’t care. For example, Apple does just fine with their walled garden. The biggest issue with VR at the moment from my personal experience is the form factor. The giant box you put on your head really intimidates normal people. Even if you take care of the price and complexity of VR, people still don’t want to fully dive in beyond trying out a demo. I am still having trouble understanding why
"Normal people" may not care, but enough of us early adopters / tech savvy people do care to have some impact here. Facebook's reputation is so deep in the gutter that some people will never purchase anything from them (I count myself among those ranks).
VR's widespread adoption has been "right around the corner" for at least a decade now, but it keeps failing to actually materialize. These things are niche gaming peripherals still, and proponents can ill afford to ignore potential users if they really want to reach ubiquity.
VR's widespread adoption has been "right around the corner" for at least a decade now, but it keeps failing to actually materialize. These things are niche gaming peripherals still, and proponents can ill afford to ignore potential users if they really want to reach ubiquity.
I’m not saying that meta’s past rep isn’t important, but that’s still not as big as the form factor. In my little adhoc experiment, even if you took that away, it didn’t matter. Form factor still drives them away. It’s like being a VR user makes you Neal Stephenson’s “gargoyle” if I’m using the right term from snow crash
And what's cooler than that, other than the pet Rat Thing in the freezer?
> Even if you take care of the price and complexity of VR, people still don’t want to fully dive in beyond trying out a demo. I am still having trouble understanding why
Maybe the people who aren't diving in to VR are "having trouble understanding why" they should?
(Full disclosure: I honestly can't think of many things worse than strapping a box of electronics onto my head!)
Maybe the people who aren't diving in to VR are "having trouble understanding why" they should?
(Full disclosure: I honestly can't think of many things worse than strapping a box of electronics onto my head!)
> Apple does just fine with their walled garden
There is a large group of Apple apologists right here on this very site!
There is a large group of Apple apologists right here on this very site!
I’m not defending Apple. I’m just saying that non-techies tend to not care about that particular issue.
> holding back wider scale adoption
That doesn’t make any sense. Users want a good out of the box experience, which is what they’re getting. Without the Quest there would be no realistic consumer VR development out there. Most people writing these types of comments have never owned or used a Quest.
That doesn’t make any sense. Users want a good out of the box experience, which is what they’re getting. Without the Quest there would be no realistic consumer VR development out there. Most people writing these types of comments have never owned or used a Quest.
I wasn't saying the Quest out of box experience is bad, more that they're holding back wider market adoption through exclusivity deals and throwing up arbitrary walls that may put off potential consumers and competing headset manufacturers who don't have the money Meta/Oculus has to throw around.
The markets still relatively small and the cost of entry high, so giving potential customers any reason to buy a console instead is a mistake in the longer term in my opinion (better to have a smaller slice of a much bigger pie), and might make studios less likely to invest their time in making VR games
The markets still relatively small and the cost of entry high, so giving potential customers any reason to buy a console instead is a mistake in the longer term in my opinion (better to have a smaller slice of a much bigger pie), and might make studios less likely to invest their time in making VR games
Sad but true. Still, there have been hacks to get Oculus SW to work on Vive and even Windows Mixed Reality hardware. I hope that is the case with this title as well.
To me, the VR headset market seems to be mirroring the early console market. Initially there are many options to choose from, but eventually they are reduced to two or three realistic competitors. Right now it seems to be Valve and Meta.
Information wants to be free. Content wants to be controlled.
"Information wants to be free. Information also wants to be expensive. Information wants to be free because it has become so cheap to distribute, copy, and recombine—too cheap to meter. It wants to be expensive because it can be immeasurably valuable to the recipient. That tension will not go away."
-- Stewart Brand
-- Stewart Brand
You already in this future with the iPhone
A colleague recommended "Free Solo" to me a few years back. There was this part where the doctors claim (paraphrasing) his brain is unique in that he is much less afraid of danger than us.
The part towards the end, where he does the actual climb of El Capitan in Yosemite National Park, is also worth watching.
The part towards the end, where he does the actual climb of El Capitan in Yosemite National Park, is also worth watching.
I find rock climbing or other sort of "adventurist" movies like that really enjoyable and interesting. If you haven't seen it The Dawn Wall was also pretty good and features Honnold at one point. It's not free soloing but it's interesting in other ways.
I've never had such sweaty palms in my life as when watching that part.
There is a 4+ minute Youtube clip that includes the central climbing scenes from "Free Solo" [0].
Amazing guy. The National Geographic documentary had Hollywood-esque layers that slightly annoyed me (ominous music etc), though. A documentary by Werner Herzog about Alex Honnold would be fascinating; something in the vein of his 1974 "The Great Ecstasy of Woodcarver Steiner" [1,2]. I would have loved to see more of the philosophical, introspective side of Alex Honnold in the NG movie. In case of Herzog's ski jumper Walter Steiner, it was very much there.
0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnRoda7Ke2w
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Ecstasy_of_Woodcarve...
2: Full movie here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTdQ2fGlrq8
Amazing guy. The National Geographic documentary had Hollywood-esque layers that slightly annoyed me (ominous music etc), though. A documentary by Werner Herzog about Alex Honnold would be fascinating; something in the vein of his 1974 "The Great Ecstasy of Woodcarver Steiner" [1,2]. I would have loved to see more of the philosophical, introspective side of Alex Honnold in the NG movie. In case of Herzog's ski jumper Walter Steiner, it was very much there.
0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnRoda7Ke2w
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Ecstasy_of_Woodcarve...
2: Full movie here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTdQ2fGlrq8
Herzog doc about honnold would be dope. Honnold actually reminds me of Grizzly Man in alot of ways- in that you root for him but don't totally understand him. Interesting to think about whether Grizzly Man was more or less naive than Honnold- I think that's what makes them different. Honnold knows the risk he's taking, Grizzly Man didn't.
Meru is a lot better and interesting documentary in my opinion. Not Hannold, but same circle of people and ice climbing
> There was this part where the doctors claim (paraphrasing) his brain is unique in that he is much less afraid of danger than us.
I'm very skeptical of that claim. It seems just as reasonable that he has a perfectly normal brain that is exactly as afraid of things as the rest of ours, but he's spent a lot of time doing terrifying things and has learned to suppress how his body reacts to it.
I'm very skeptical of that claim. It seems just as reasonable that he has a perfectly normal brain that is exactly as afraid of things as the rest of ours, but he's spent a lot of time doing terrifying things and has learned to suppress how his body reacts to it.
>I'm very skeptical of that claim.
you can find his brain scans and see that his visual to amygdala connecting path is activated significantly less than for normal people (which in other words is "much less afraid of danger"). It is a question though whether it is a result of training or an original anatomy.
you can find his brain scans and see that his visual to amygdala connecting path is activated significantly less than for normal people (which in other words is "much less afraid of danger"). It is a question though whether it is a result of training or an original anatomy.
Nope. Tons of climbers climb as hard, and scary things as he does, in fact much harder he wouldn't be able to climb, probably ever.
He doesn't behave the same, where normal climbers would freak out and do a fatal mistake he repeatedly remains calm as on sunday tea party. You can train some resistance to fear of death and indeed all climbers do (myself included), but almost everybody hits some wall within their current skills. His wall is way further than almost any other climber. Not that he is the only soloist, far from it.
He doesn't behave the same, where normal climbers would freak out and do a fatal mistake he repeatedly remains calm as on sunday tea party. You can train some resistance to fear of death and indeed all climbers do (myself included), but almost everybody hits some wall within their current skills. His wall is way further than almost any other climber. Not that he is the only soloist, far from it.
Alex put a lot of effort into this feat, which as far as I'm aware no one else ever seriously even attempted to train for. Listening to him speak it is obvious that he has closer relationship with his own mortality than most people, even other extreme sports enthusiasts. I think it is too convenient to look at someone like Alex and try to attribute their accomplishments to them being a freak of nature in some way, as opposed to being a normal person who just dedicated themselves to the problem more than anyone else, not to mention that it is doubtful our understanding of neurology is even good enough to make such claims in the first place, so I remain skeptical.
Did you watch the documentary?
If you listen to interviews with Honnold, he’s very clear about the fact that he still feels fear. If you watch the clip of his first free solo of Half Dome, you can even see him have a little freakout moment standing on one of the ledges during the climb.
The only abnormal thing about his brain scan was that his amygdala activated less than usual when he looked at frightening or disturbing images, which would be entirely compatible with deliberate desensitization (perhaps through ~20 years of practicing climbing with no protection?)
The only abnormal thing about his brain scan was that his amygdala activated less than usual when he looked at frightening or disturbing images, which would be entirely compatible with deliberate desensitization (perhaps through ~20 years of practicing climbing with no protection?)
Try watching "The Alpinist". Just as good, just as insane.
15 minutes in I was thinking "this guy can't still be alive"
I had the additional context of knowing he was already dead going into it (there's a crag in Squamish named in tribute to him).
What I didn't expect was that he died on a non-solo climb he was doing, while descending, in an avalanche. Which is the same risk any high-altitude alpinist takes.
What I didn't expect was that he died on a non-solo climb he was doing, while descending, in an avalanche. Which is the same risk any high-altitude alpinist takes.
A lot more insane, even Alex thought the guy was crazy. Extremely talented, but crazy.
Less fear would normally be associated with greater casual risk taking.
Given his incredibly rigorous training and laborious and meticulous preparation (years!) for the ascent beforehand, what looks like risk to us is probably as much experience to him. The connections to his amygdala don't seem to have had impact on rational thinking.
Given his incredibly rigorous training and laborious and meticulous preparation (years!) for the ascent beforehand, what looks like risk to us is probably as much experience to him. The connections to his amygdala don't seem to have had impact on rational thinking.
Documentary filmmaking and VR are such a good fit especially with video game engine 3D de novo animation and mechanics used to tell a better more compelling story beyond what is possible with normal filming and VFX. 360 video is a natural transition medium but there is so much more that's possible inside the experience.
For what it's worth Meta should get credit for pushing the envelope with content efforts like a recent David Attenborough walk through of early life on earth [1] among quite a few others.
[1] https://alchemyimmersive.com/productions/david-attenboroughs...
For what it's worth Meta should get credit for pushing the envelope with content efforts like a recent David Attenborough walk through of early life on earth [1] among quite a few others.
[1] https://alchemyimmersive.com/productions/david-attenboroughs...
I agree, there is so much interesting “You are there” type Oculus content.
I decided to love the Oculus ecosystem, while maintaining my dislike for Facebook social media, etc.
I decided to love the Oculus ecosystem, while maintaining my dislike for Facebook social media, etc.
Makes me feel weird just watching him. One wrong move and you die. So you need to have extremely high confidence in each move. But how do you build that without falling off something? Practice in a safe environment? Ok so when is it safe to try for real?
"how do you build that confidence without falling off?"
The answer is that you do fall. Actually, you fall on the exact route you're going to free solo usually! The normal way of climbing (as opposed to "free soloing"), is with ropes. You have places on the rock where you can anchor ropes, you have someone belaying you, and at any point, if you fall, it's really not a big deal. Climbing ropes are dynamic (have a lot of stretch), so falling on them is really safe feeling. It doesn't hurt at all, it's fine to fall over and over again, and the equipment used is relatively safe. It makes it so you're able to get a really good feel for your own limits on routes, which obviously helps in figuring out if you can free solo it.
So, how do you build up enough confidence to free solo? You climb the route with ropes for months. You make sure you can go up the route without ever needing the ropes reliably. You steel yourself. And then you do it.
When is it safe to try for real? Depends on your risk tolerance and confidence. For most people, it's never safe enough to be worth the adrenaline.
> One wrong move and you die.
Not to be glib and dismissive, but one wrong move driving 70 on a highway and you die too.
There's a ton of ways to die, and we accept some as very normalized, and others as not. They mostly align with danger (free soloing is really dangerous, driving somewhat dangerous), but there's some things we do so much we forget they're actually dangerous. Driving doesn't seem dangerous to most people that drive. Climbing with ropes starts to not feel dangerous really quickly. Free soloing? If you do it enough, it starts to feel not that dangerous, especially on a route that feels "easy" for your current climbing level.
The answer is that you do fall. Actually, you fall on the exact route you're going to free solo usually! The normal way of climbing (as opposed to "free soloing"), is with ropes. You have places on the rock where you can anchor ropes, you have someone belaying you, and at any point, if you fall, it's really not a big deal. Climbing ropes are dynamic (have a lot of stretch), so falling on them is really safe feeling. It doesn't hurt at all, it's fine to fall over and over again, and the equipment used is relatively safe. It makes it so you're able to get a really good feel for your own limits on routes, which obviously helps in figuring out if you can free solo it.
So, how do you build up enough confidence to free solo? You climb the route with ropes for months. You make sure you can go up the route without ever needing the ropes reliably. You steel yourself. And then you do it.
When is it safe to try for real? Depends on your risk tolerance and confidence. For most people, it's never safe enough to be worth the adrenaline.
> One wrong move and you die.
Not to be glib and dismissive, but one wrong move driving 70 on a highway and you die too.
There's a ton of ways to die, and we accept some as very normalized, and others as not. They mostly align with danger (free soloing is really dangerous, driving somewhat dangerous), but there's some things we do so much we forget they're actually dangerous. Driving doesn't seem dangerous to most people that drive. Climbing with ropes starts to not feel dangerous really quickly. Free soloing? If you do it enough, it starts to feel not that dangerous, especially on a route that feels "easy" for your current climbing level.
As a complement, Alex Honnold told that it took him several years to feel confident he could free solo El Capitan. Several years of practicing every passages. Usually the free solo without a lot of preparation are done on routes with 2 or 3 difficulty order below the capacity of the climber.
I think it's important to note that a big part of free soloing is the mental game, and no amount of rehearsal on a rope can fully prepare you for that. Alex had free soloed thousands of pitches of rock, at vary degrees of difficulty before taking on El Cap.
What impresses me most about Alex and other free soloists isn't so much their ability to keep their head together while climbing, but their ability to keep their head together while lying awake in bed at night, thinking about what they just did, and what they plan to do again tomorrow.
What impresses me most about Alex and other free soloists isn't so much their ability to keep their head together while climbing, but their ability to keep their head together while lying awake in bed at night, thinking about what they just did, and what they plan to do again tomorrow.
It's unfortunate that most people are first exposed to rock climbing by watching videos of free soloing. It really distorts your perception of the sport.
It's no surprise, of course. Free soloing is pretty much the most riveting thing you could watch on a screen, whereas every other form of climbing is frankly quite boring to watch if you don't know the sport intimately. Mostly, it's people pushing their own personal limits, without any risk whatsoever, on things they've aren't visually all that spectacular.
Here's an example of what most of us do:
https://youtu.be/dp8b45CdUAc
I defy a non-climber to make it through 3 minutes of watching me fall off the same 15 foot tall rock. Climbers, however, will notice that there are harder moves on that stone than anything you'll find in Alex's big free solo videos. They'll also know, of course, that Alex would likely be able to send this thing on his first try, because this is well within his limit.
Those two facts, reconciled together with him having practiced the easy route in the solo video every bit as much as I did this little boulder problem, give you an idea of how unlikely it is that he would fall off it.
Sadly, that's all lost on non-climbers, who just see a spectacular thing happening way up in the sky, stripped of all context.
It's a cool sport, by the way, go give it a try some time and I bet you'll get hooked.
It's no surprise, of course. Free soloing is pretty much the most riveting thing you could watch on a screen, whereas every other form of climbing is frankly quite boring to watch if you don't know the sport intimately. Mostly, it's people pushing their own personal limits, without any risk whatsoever, on things they've aren't visually all that spectacular.
Here's an example of what most of us do:
https://youtu.be/dp8b45CdUAc
I defy a non-climber to make it through 3 minutes of watching me fall off the same 15 foot tall rock. Climbers, however, will notice that there are harder moves on that stone than anything you'll find in Alex's big free solo videos. They'll also know, of course, that Alex would likely be able to send this thing on his first try, because this is well within his limit.
Those two facts, reconciled together with him having practiced the easy route in the solo video every bit as much as I did this little boulder problem, give you an idea of how unlikely it is that he would fall off it.
Sadly, that's all lost on non-climbers, who just see a spectacular thing happening way up in the sky, stripped of all context.
It's a cool sport, by the way, go give it a try some time and I bet you'll get hooked.
When I was a kid, maybe 6 or 7, I saw this[1] television segment on John Bachar. It blew my mind, and was imagination fuel for the rest of my childhood. At 45 I still love climbing. I don't think it was unfortunate at all that my first exposure to climbing was via a free soloist.
[1]https://youtu.be/sLivlvAkhs0
[1]https://youtu.be/sLivlvAkhs0
The Free Solo movie gives enough context, IMO. (it was hard to watch for me though)
> Free soloing is pretty much the most riveting thing you could watch on a screen
It’s not riveting to me at all. I can hardly watch. I can understand the allure of doing it, but watching it without the knowledge of knowing I can do it (like for existing routes I’ve already done) is hard, constantly feel like they’ll fall, even though you know the video wouldn’t be published if it were so :/
It’s not riveting to me at all. I can hardly watch. I can understand the allure of doing it, but watching it without the knowledge of knowing I can do it (like for existing routes I’ve already done) is hard, constantly feel like they’ll fall, even though you know the video wouldn’t be published if it were so :/
I recently went down a rabbit hole of watching speed climbing on YouTube. It's really mesmerizing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4n6xfu8VDU
That's a really cool video.
What was your success rate after the first time you completed it? Was it one of those things that after you've done it you can pretty much do it every time?
What was your success rate after the first time you completed it? Was it one of those things that after you've done it you can pretty much do it every time?
For stuff at your limit, it’s pretty rare that you go back and try it again.
Sometimes you’ll come back to add a sit start to a problem that you’ve done in the past, and in that case I’ve surprised myself on occasion by being able to do the (previously) hard stand start over and over again on demand. Other times, such as this one, the upper part becomes the crux again, since now you need to do it after tiring yourself out on the new lower bit.
But yes, it’s not uncommon to dial in the occasional hard problem as a party piece. There are a few fun ones in the forest that I make a point of repeating every time I’m in the area.
Sometimes you’ll come back to add a sit start to a problem that you’ve done in the past, and in that case I’ve surprised myself on occasion by being able to do the (previously) hard stand start over and over again on demand. Other times, such as this one, the upper part becomes the crux again, since now you need to do it after tiring yourself out on the new lower bit.
But yes, it’s not uncommon to dial in the occasional hard problem as a party piece. There are a few fun ones in the forest that I make a point of repeating every time I’m in the area.
I would give yourself more credit, I highly doubt he would be able to flash a v11, I don't think he boulders much harder than v12.
Nice work by the way, Font is the best!
Nice work by the way, Font is the best!
Have you ever climbed up a really tall ladder, like a 3-story extension ladder? It's... kind of terrifying. You're a long ways up, you can see the ground, the ladder is flexing under your weight. But other than the fear, it's actually pretty easy; all you have to do is keep climbing and not do something stupid.
To a phenomenally accomplished climber like Honnold, a 5.11 route is like climbing a ladder. That's hard to imagine as a normal flightless human who hasn't spent his/her life training the relevant muscles. But if you think of a ladder as a 5.1 route, you're already on the path.
That said, "3rd classing it" is definitely not for me.
To a phenomenally accomplished climber like Honnold, a 5.11 route is like climbing a ladder. That's hard to imagine as a normal flightless human who hasn't spent his/her life training the relevant muscles. But if you think of a ladder as a 5.1 route, you're already on the path.
That said, "3rd classing it" is definitely not for me.
You might not even have to find a really tall ladder. I know I can walk and balance just fine on a 5 cm (2 in) wide piece of wood on otherwise flat ground. But put me on a 5 cm wide bar over cold water, and I start to doubt my abilities to walk.
He climbs all these routes with a rope dozens to hundreds of times before free soloing them.
The routes that he free soloes are also considered relatively easy to intermediate in skill level, well within his skill level.
The really incredible part of his free soloes is just how long his body can last. It's Olympic levels of endurance.
The routes that he free soloes are also considered relatively easy to intermediate in skill level, well within his skill level.
The really incredible part of his free soloes is just how long his body can last. It's Olympic levels of endurance.
5.12d is pretty hard. Seems beyond intermediate to me (but maybe I'm just soft).
Absolutely, it's not just pretty hard, it's pretty damn hard. Most climbers will never climb this hard (maybe ~1-5% of climbers reach this grade with lots of practice and training).
Even fewer will get to a point where they might conceivably flash or onsight 5.12d (<0.5% of climbers if I had to guess)
I doubt there are more than 10,000 people alive who would consider free soloing 5.12d at all, and I don't think anyone else has free soloed a 5.12d big wall route.
Even fewer will get to a point where they might conceivably flash or onsight 5.12d (<0.5% of climbers if I had to guess)
I doubt there are more than 10,000 people alive who would consider free soloing 5.12d at all, and I don't think anyone else has free soloed a 5.12d big wall route.
I agree with you for sure. I don't think 12d is unattainable to a typical fit person, it just takes a lot of training and focused desire to get to that point. It isn't a grade you can reach in a year or even five (except maybe children with their crazy power to weight ratios) but normal 2-3 days a week climbing over time will get you the strength and technique to climb a 5.12d.
Style matters too. Are you good at steep overhung routes, slabby vertical routes that require lots of balance, crack climbing, or even off widths. It is all kinda relative. I am a tall guy so powerful long moves are my preferred style. I have friends a foot shorter than me that can crack climb way better than I can. It is a great sport and there are accomplishments to be made at every grade and every step of your climbing journey. Try hard and people with respect you regardless of the grade.
Style matters too. Are you good at steep overhung routes, slabby vertical routes that require lots of balance, crack climbing, or even off widths. It is all kinda relative. I am a tall guy so powerful long moves are my preferred style. I have friends a foot shorter than me that can crack climb way better than I can. It is a great sport and there are accomplishments to be made at every grade and every step of your climbing journey. Try hard and people with respect you regardless of the grade.
Speaking from experience, 2-3 days a week of just climbing isn't enough for everyone to reach 5.12d. Many people would also need focused training and deliberate nutritional support at 3 days a week. It's entirely possible younger people (teens to early 20s perhaps?) could get to 5.12d with less work, but that's not generalizable to the general population of climbers.
For me, 5.13 is my life goal with climbing. I tend to agree that nutrition is a huge component. When I am more focused on training, not just climbing for fun, and eat right I make strides towards that goal. All that being said, my hardest red point outside is 12b. There is a lot of work to still be done.
This is true, but there are only a few points on the entire route that are this hard. I don't mean to diminish Alex's accomplishments, just sharing things has said in said interviews. But 5.12d is definitely advanced
One of Alex's most impressive feats was doing the triple crown in a day, in which he soloed El Cap, Half-dome, and Washington spire (the 3 tallest faces in Yosemite) in a single 18 hour push.
Physically the feat is comparable to running an ultra marathon, but to maintain the necessary mental focus for the entire push is beyond my comprehension.
Physically the feat is comparable to running an ultra marathon, but to maintain the necessary mental focus for the entire push is beyond my comprehension.
More like an ultramarathon where you do 100 pushups every mile.
Is his free solo climb of El Capitan considered an easy to intermediate route?
https://www.coloradomountaineering.com/2012/01/guide-to-yose...:
“Requires considerable knowledge of ropework, knots, and protection to climb. Although "free-soloing", or climbing without a rope, is admired and even revered by some as the purest form of climbing, it is a rare sort of person that enjoys climbing significant class 5 pitches without a rope.”
Class 5 is subdivided in 5.1 through 5.15, with ¿some/each? having a further a through d rating.
The route he took is rated 5.12d, maybe 5.13a (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14500208), so that’s highly elite. Free-soloing is easier than soling with safety ropes in the sense that you won’t have to haul up gear :-) but of course a lot harder mentally.
I think ratings ignore length of the climb, and that matters, especially in this case, where there’s little to no time to rest.
You have to be confident that you’ll be physically and mentally fit enough for the entire thing (climbing down is more difficult, so you’re committing going all the way fairly soon). For Honnold, that meant almost four hours.
“Requires considerable knowledge of ropework, knots, and protection to climb. Although "free-soloing", or climbing without a rope, is admired and even revered by some as the purest form of climbing, it is a rare sort of person that enjoys climbing significant class 5 pitches without a rope.”
Class 5 is subdivided in 5.1 through 5.15, with ¿some/each? having a further a through d rating.
The route he took is rated 5.12d, maybe 5.13a (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14500208), so that’s highly elite. Free-soloing is easier than soling with safety ropes in the sense that you won’t have to haul up gear :-) but of course a lot harder mentally.
I think ratings ignore length of the climb, and that matters, especially in this case, where there’s little to no time to rest.
You have to be confident that you’ll be physically and mentally fit enough for the entire thing (climbing down is more difficult, so you’re committing going all the way fairly soon). For Honnold, that meant almost four hours.
Considering what an average (casual) climber can achieve in a lifetime the hardest moves on the route would be very difficult but doable. But the route as a whole is probably out of reach, it requires a tremendous amount of endurance.
For a dedicated sport climber the route would be very difficult but doable.
For a dedicated sport climber the route would be very difficult but doable.
Background: I have climbed for 3 years.
This is the route: https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106261545/freerider
30 pitches at 5.13a.
That is very very difficult.
Keep in mind:
1. Very few climbers can even climb one pitch of 5.13 (maybe top 1%)
2. Even fewer could attempt 30 pitches of 5.13 over several days.
3. Like maybe only dozens in the world could attempt 30 pitches of 5.13 in single day
4. Only 1 person ever in history that has attempted that without a rope.
This is the route: https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106261545/freerider
30 pitches at 5.13a.
That is very very difficult.
Keep in mind:
1. Very few climbers can even climb one pitch of 5.13 (maybe top 1%)
2. Even fewer could attempt 30 pitches of 5.13 over several days.
3. Like maybe only dozens in the world could attempt 30 pitches of 5.13 in single day
4. Only 1 person ever in history that has attempted that without a rope.
A small correction: there is only one pitch of 5.13a (or 5.12d according to the developer of the route), and most of the pitches are much easier. Multi-pitch climbs are graded for their hardest pitch.
See the topo here: https://m.huberbuam.de/files/hb/content/topos/HB-Topo-Yosemi...
(Not to diminish the athletic achievement at all. As you say, sending even a single pitch of 5.13a puts you in the top tier of amateur climbers.)
See the topo here: https://m.huberbuam.de/files/hb/content/topos/HB-Topo-Yosemi...
(Not to diminish the athletic achievement at all. As you say, sending even a single pitch of 5.13a puts you in the top tier of amateur climbers.)
If you'd like something that makes you _weirder_ I recommend this: https://www.netflix.com/title/81500204
This film opens with a testimonial from Alex Honnold for Marc-André Leclerc - whom the film is about.
This film opens with a testimonial from Alex Honnold for Marc-André Leclerc - whom the film is about.
The film shows Leclerc free soloing hard routes on sight, including ice routes. The degree of difficulty is totally bananas.
It's a fascinating character study.
It's a fascinating character study.
What is the title of the film? Your netflix link 404's in my country.
Yes, "The Alpinist" — on Netflix in the U.S.:
https://www.netflix.com/watch/81500204?trackId=13752289&tctx...
404 here too (UK), but from the details I believe it's "The Alpinist"
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11790780/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11790780/
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The craziest part is the talk where he says “I didn't want to be a lucky climber. I wanted to be a great climber.”
He literally went back and did it all again after that one part when he felt like he was in danger. Almost anyone else would say "It happened once, it might be bad next time" but he wanted a run where he did everything perfect and didn't feel like luck saved him.
He is not like other people.
He literally went back and did it all again after that one part when he felt like he was in danger. Almost anyone else would say "It happened once, it might be bad next time" but he wanted a run where he did everything perfect and didn't feel like luck saved him.
He is not like other people.
Maybe it was in the Free Solo movie or other interviews, but I thought he said that his route during Free Solo was a difficulty level of about 7/10 for him. So he was comfortable enough that it was not the hardest climb for him; after a ton of practice on that route, with ropes, of course.
So to be statistical about it, the difficulty level for him was at the edge of 1 standard deviation of the mean of his capability. Maybe that's enough margin that he could detect when he's really in trouble.
So to be statistical about it, the difficulty level for him was at the edge of 1 standard deviation of the mean of his capability. Maybe that's enough margin that he could detect when he's really in trouble.
Alex apparently doesn't feel fear/anxiety in the way people with normal brains do, e.g.
"In 2016, he was subjected to functional magnetic resonance imaging scans that revealed that, unlike other high sensation seekers, his amygdala barely activates when watching disturbing images. He however confesses feeling fear occasionally. Through imagination and practice, he has desensitized himself to most fearful situations."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Honnold
https://nautil.us/the-strange-brain-of-the-worlds-greatest-s...
"In 2016, he was subjected to functional magnetic resonance imaging scans that revealed that, unlike other high sensation seekers, his amygdala barely activates when watching disturbing images. He however confesses feeling fear occasionally. Through imagination and practice, he has desensitized himself to most fearful situations."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Honnold
https://nautil.us/the-strange-brain-of-the-worlds-greatest-s...
Practice with a rope. Part of learning to lead climb is learning to fall and trust your rope and anchors so you can really push yourself in climbs. Presumably once you have enough experience and skill at climbing as Alex then you'll start to know what climbs are trivially low risk for you. Alex makes it very clear that when he's free solo climbing he is not pushing his climbing limits or feeling scared--if he has fear then something is wrong and free soloing isn't the right thing in that moment.
Survivor bias.
As if the 2D version of watching him climbing wouldn't trigger enough anxiety attacks in me already. xD
I would never in a million years want to do this, but it must be pretty amazing to be able to do something with that degree of reliability.
There's only one thing that I can start doing and be reasonably sure I'll succeed, and that's coding, and only because there is a defined process to follow that is resistant to basic errors, because it's so highly mutable and mistakes can be fixed individually without starting over.
To be able to do anything to that degree of reliability must be pretty amazing.
There's only one thing that I can start doing and be reasonably sure I'll succeed, and that's coding, and only because there is a defined process to follow that is resistant to basic errors, because it's so highly mutable and mistakes can be fixed individually without starting over.
To be able to do anything to that degree of reliability must be pretty amazing.
Do you drive a car? Ride a bike in traffic? One false move and you are dead. You, like most people, are probably competent at these things that would be very risky but for your skill.
As a climber, I don't think it's comparable. The death rate among notorious soloists (as compared to rate among people who bike in traffic every day) agrees here.
Each bad move on a solo is death. For driving, biking in traffic, it has to be a series of bad circumstances to mean death.
Each bad move on a solo is death. For driving, biking in traffic, it has to be a series of bad circumstances to mean death.
Also a climber, and occasional soloist. You can absolutely make a bad move on a solo and not die.
The soloists who achieve notoriety are either pushing the limits, or seeking adrenaline, which skews the stats, especially when you check the number of them that passed doing non-climbing activities. It's not particularly fair to compare that demographic to the average folks who bike in traffic every day.
Soloing well within your limits is like riding a bike on a quiet road, there are things that can go wrong, but something extraordinary has to happen for it to be serious.
Soloing close to (or outside of) your limits is like riding a bike on a busy motorway. The margins for error disappear and mistakes are far more likely to be fatal.
The soloists who achieve notoriety are either pushing the limits, or seeking adrenaline, which skews the stats, especially when you check the number of them that passed doing non-climbing activities. It's not particularly fair to compare that demographic to the average folks who bike in traffic every day.
Soloing well within your limits is like riding a bike on a quiet road, there are things that can go wrong, but something extraordinary has to happen for it to be serious.
Soloing close to (or outside of) your limits is like riding a bike on a busy motorway. The margins for error disappear and mistakes are far more likely to be fatal.
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Nope, I've never learned to drive. I mess up basic things like left/right confusion far too often, and have no idea how people are able to safety drive.
I've tried a few times but it seems entirely impossible.
One time I literally made it a months long project to learn to not leave my keys in the front door. To the point of programming my phone with random voice reminders and getting up to check at 3AM.... and I never got anywhere near 100%. I just use a lanyard.
I don't see how I'd ever drive when driving is made of dozens of tasks like that, and I can't even do one of them.
My list of rules and workarounds is long enough that I've actually posted them on GitHub and I treat counting to ten as a high failure risk project that demands care and triple checking.
I've tried a few times but it seems entirely impossible.
One time I literally made it a months long project to learn to not leave my keys in the front door. To the point of programming my phone with random voice reminders and getting up to check at 3AM.... and I never got anywhere near 100%. I just use a lanyard.
I don't see how I'd ever drive when driving is made of dozens of tasks like that, and I can't even do one of them.
My list of rules and workarounds is long enough that I've actually posted them on GitHub and I treat counting to ten as a high failure risk project that demands care and triple checking.
I'm pretty sure the ratio of possible deadly moves : good moves in rock climbing is much higher than that of driving.
I get extremely strong 3D movies vibe from this. I honestly think this is probably a worse way of watching this content than just viewing it as a movie. You might watch this as a gimmick but I don't think it really presents any value above real movies.
Having said that, I wonder if Facebook will start to engage in the content war, trying to ramp up their spending on original video content for their VR. It's an extremely expensive route to go, but it's certainly a possible strategy.
Having said that, I wonder if Facebook will start to engage in the content war, trying to ramp up their spending on original video content for their VR. It's an extremely expensive route to go, but it's certainly a possible strategy.
I watched the first half. Having watched many (too many?) climbing vids it was actually incredible by comparison. The scenes are a series of statically-positioned full-sphere 3D shots where you can watch him climb through a sequence or turn and look out at the mountains. Scale is conveyed in a sense not possible with your standard 2D video, especially of both height and the actual geometry of the rock he has to move through. Very similar experience to watching someone climb as a belayer or when hanging next to them on a rope. Greatly enjoyed.
Anyone who has tried to take a photo of a climb they've just completed will know how difficult it is to really capture the climb and what was interesting or difficult about it. So much so that people will often resort to visual tricks to make the photo of the route look steeper, to match their non-photographic perception (you can pick this out by looking at the angle of trees in the background). It's also notoriously difficult to match a real-life climbing route to a photo, as anyone who has stumbled around a crag squinting at a guidebook will attest. I think this form really does capture what it's like to be looking at the route in real life.
Anyone who has tried to take a photo of a climb they've just completed will know how difficult it is to really capture the climb and what was interesting or difficult about it. So much so that people will often resort to visual tricks to make the photo of the route look steeper, to match their non-photographic perception (you can pick this out by looking at the angle of trees in the background). It's also notoriously difficult to match a real-life climbing route to a photo, as anyone who has stumbled around a crag squinting at a guidebook will attest. I think this form really does capture what it's like to be looking at the route in real life.
I disagree with this. Some VR content is definitely bad, and not worth using the headset for, no doubt about that, but when the content is done well, it is significantly better than watching a movie imo.
The 3d effect is significantly better, and with actual volumetric content that you can move around in, the experience is totally different. I think there is definitely room for quality VR content along with "regular" movies, since they are both just different experiences.
The 3d effect is significantly better, and with actual volumetric content that you can move around in, the experience is totally different. I think there is definitely room for quality VR content along with "regular" movies, since they are both just different experiences.
I think that's an issues with this medium in general. The utility decreases as the barrier to entry increases. With this title in particular, I'd just as soon spend my resources (time, energy, money) to GTFO the couch and climb something in Reality™.
As a side thought, can you imagine how boring skydiving in VR would be?
As a side thought, can you imagine how boring skydiving in VR would be?
I agree, I climb a lot IRL and yep, VR can't come close to touching that experience :).
But yeah as far as what VR is good for, there are definitely places where it sings: and where people tend to make a mistake is thinking that it can be a 1-1 with reality and is supposed to replace existing experiences, like climbing or skydiving. I think it's more of a creative medium that will need a really long time to develop (think film, which has had over a century to get its feet under it).
Anyway as an example: this video is kind of the inverse of skydiving, (360 camera on a balloon floating into space), but definitely an interesting experience that can't really be replicated on traditional media.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCve1w1GFOs&ab_channel=Seeke...
Another really interesting one: https://tenderclaws.com/theunderpresents
Anyway as an example: this video is kind of the inverse of skydiving, (360 camera on a balloon floating into space), but definitely an interesting experience that can't really be replicated on traditional media.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCve1w1GFOs&ab_channel=Seeke...
Another really interesting one: https://tenderclaws.com/theunderpresents
Watched it and it's nothing like a movie, the effect is absolutely incredible. Some of the transitions were a bit jarring and device/bandwidth limits mean graphics aren't amazing, but overall really good.
I’m guessing you never tried a Quest
Bummer it’s locked in to Facebook land.
It honestly would not matter how much I loved this. Facebook is not getting my money. Most harmful institution in America. I'm sad to see Alex attach his name to this.
You mean meta
They got one free change with the dropped "The". Facebook is final.
We still call it Google instead of Alphabet, brands are sticky (by design).
I get dizzy watching him climb on my big tv. I can't imagine what a VR version would be like.
Tighten your belt and tie a rope between it and a solid anchor in your room so you can have the reassuring feeling of safety while you watch.
Pete Whitaker was the first who did this with a 360 camera https://gearjunkie.com/climbing/pete-whittaker-solo-climb-on...
I watched the first part last night... it was pretty cool, but I felt a bit guilty watching it. Dude leaves his (hot) pregnant wife at home to fly to Europe to risk his life up a mountain for Zuckerberg $$
The people who made the film did an exceptional job. My palms were producing buckets of sweat just from watching.
How they filmed "Free Solo"[0] was also pretty incredible. They had to assemble world class videographers who were also world class climbers. As you can imagine, it's a very small group of people!
0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtnjRoDa71Y
0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtnjRoDa71Y
Watching it, I always felt for the guys filming, less about Alex. He's on his own, and he is the only one in control of his fate. Yet, they're all scattered around at various angles, potentially filming their friend fall without having any chance to help or intervene. It must be such a tense time to help out filming there. Their risk aversion is much better calibrated to it all, but seeing how most of these breath-taking record-breaking attempts are covered on camera so widely now, it can only be a matter of time until it happens.
Today a bunch of drones would be sufficient I guess?
They talked about using drones for his free solo documentary, but Alex was concerned about the noise being a distraction and causing him to fall off.
Prohibited in Yosemite, maybe all National Parks. This doesn't stop everyone though.
It’s possible to get a filming permit for one. There is a drone shot near the end of Free Solo.
Way more disturbing for the climber. Also, it's not always just about the end result.
The movie is only a few years old, so drones were already a solution back then.
They did not use them because of the noise. Being filmed while climbing was already disturbing for Alex, so drones making a lot of noise was a no go.
They did not use them because of the noise. Being filmed while climbing was already disturbing for Alex, so drones making a lot of noise was a no go.
more like VRtigo
Anyone know what the 360 cameras were that they used on it? The video is amazing. I watched him for a good half hour climbing and it was great.
Stupid question, but is that really full VR in the sense that you can move your head around in a limited volume and see everything with real depth perception? Or is it a 360 degree video projected to a sphere and you virtually sit in the center? Is the former even possible to produce somehow?
> Is the former even possible to produce somehow?
Google has done some research into it though it's not very practical https://augmentedperception.github.io/deepviewvideo/
Google has done some research into it though it's not very practical https://augmentedperception.github.io/deepviewvideo/
Their lightfield demo app has been one of the most mind blowing VR things I have ever seen. Truly excited for the world where streaming video content in that way will be possible (and I'm truly hopeful it isn't too far away!)
There is only 3 degrees of freedom, not 6. So yes it's a sphere and you sit in the center. You only get depth perception from your eye parallax, but it's enough to see the rock geometry.
I have two Oculus Quest headsets, so I might try this. I bought a rock climbing Oculus app that is well done, it really feels like you are climbing (having to stretch to grab a rock outcropping, etc.) but that app triggers fear of heights feelings.
Which game is it, Climb 2? If so I'm really interested in it, would you care to say more about it?
Yes, Climb 2. It is fun and realistic, but it does trigger fear of heights feelings in me. If you don’t have that problem, then go for it and enjoy!
Off topic, but when I am writing code, getting up for a 5 minute game of Oculus ping pong is a great refresh.
Off topic, but when I am writing code, getting up for a 5 minute game of Oculus ping pong is a great refresh.
Not who you asked, but also see To The Top on app lab if you're looking at climbing games. It's more of an arcadey take on it versus The Climb's more realistic levels.
https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/5930576503634498/
https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/5930576503634498/
As much as I'm a fan of Alex after watching his previous docs, I'm not buying into Facebook world, just to watch this.
Hoping someone would dump this on trackers somehow.
Hoping someone would dump this on trackers somehow.
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might buy an Oculus just for this
I am holding off for Occulus Quest Pro, hopefully due to release in Fall 2022 according to rumors.
I refused to watch this, after having watched Honnold's Free Solo. Suicidal
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Because they create an incentive to practice BASE jumping or free solo climbing I do not watch or support this kind of movie. Watching a tightrope act without a net is similar.
They are amazing people. They are free to do what they want.
I am not going to contribute to their possible sad end.
They are amazing people. They are free to do what they want.
I am not going to contribute to their possible sad end.
carabiner(1)
I'm afraid this is going to be our future. There's web standards and VR browsers that allows us to enter any VR experience using your preferred device, but like Podcasts, there's a lot of effort to create silos that companies can act as a monopolist in.