Brain charts: mapping the rapid growth and slow decline of the brain over life(cam.ac.uk)
cam.ac.uk
Brain charts: mapping the rapid growth and slow decline of the brain over life
https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/BrainCharts
28 comments
Between 21 and 31, what changed in your life other than your age? I find that people often confuse the effects of ageing with the side effects of ageing when judging their performance in various areas of their lives.
I've had the opposite mental trend. In my teenage years and early 20s my mental abilities took a dive off a cliff. Especially during my teenage years, due to other factors as well as frequently being ill.
Now that I'm in my early-30s I feel far more creative and generally have the ability to learn at my own time and pace, as opposed to having to do so in a classroom environment.
I think the problem is a lot of people tend to confuse a decline in mental ability with things like work-related burnout, a build-up of invisible stress or other compounding life factors. Rather than assuming that it's tied to age, I think it's better to try and assess other factors that you might be ignoring or simply haven't thought of in a while.
Now that I'm in my early-30s I feel far more creative and generally have the ability to learn at my own time and pace, as opposed to having to do so in a classroom environment.
I think the problem is a lot of people tend to confuse a decline in mental ability with things like work-related burnout, a build-up of invisible stress or other compounding life factors. Rather than assuming that it's tied to age, I think it's better to try and assess other factors that you might be ignoring or simply haven't thought of in a while.
A side effect of growing wisdom and your ability of predicting how world and other people move is that you tend to get to the point, taking shortcut and skip all the less meaningful details. This might be related to why you felt less driven to put effort on trying things, especially those require tedious attention as you feel you've already known what it would be.
This definitely have something to do with how the brain is wired after years of experiencing and learning. Not necessarily a result of aging.
This definitely have something to do with how the brain is wired after years of experiencing and learning. Not necessarily a result of aging.
I thought “peak brain ability” was mid to late 20s; is it earlier? Although I suppose a lot of the greatest breakthroughs in physics were done by people in their early twenties.
I’m also 31 and haven’t yet noticed a change in my ability to learn new things quickly (for some reason abstract topics like category theory seem easier to understand now than in my mid-twenties). But I know a decline is coming, and I’m really dreading that.
I will say there are a lot of confounding factors in life that cause changes that I think many people misattribute to age. As a personal example, getting married, having a kid, and taking a job at a large tech company have eaten away most of my time for creative thinking. I used to tinker away at various projects for hours on end. And while I get tired more easily now, I actually chalk this up more so to being sedentary during the pandemic than age related factors. The best marathoners in the world tend to be in their late 20s or early 30s, so I don’t think my potential to pull all-nighters has changed as much as my current physical shape.
> less driven generally
This is one thing that hasn’t changed for me. Everyone says when you get married and have kids your motivation to pursue far-out ideas drops drastically, but I haven’t noticed this at all. If anything, I find that I’m more driven now because I feel like I’m running out of time to accomplish (or at least attempt to accomplish) the main things I want to do in life. Yes, it’s a bit more of a challenge to find time, but looking back I can see where I wasted massive chunks of time in my 20s, so it’s nothing that better time management and prioritization can’t fix.
I’m also 31 and haven’t yet noticed a change in my ability to learn new things quickly (for some reason abstract topics like category theory seem easier to understand now than in my mid-twenties). But I know a decline is coming, and I’m really dreading that.
I will say there are a lot of confounding factors in life that cause changes that I think many people misattribute to age. As a personal example, getting married, having a kid, and taking a job at a large tech company have eaten away most of my time for creative thinking. I used to tinker away at various projects for hours on end. And while I get tired more easily now, I actually chalk this up more so to being sedentary during the pandemic than age related factors. The best marathoners in the world tend to be in their late 20s or early 30s, so I don’t think my potential to pull all-nighters has changed as much as my current physical shape.
> less driven generally
This is one thing that hasn’t changed for me. Everyone says when you get married and have kids your motivation to pursue far-out ideas drops drastically, but I haven’t noticed this at all. If anything, I find that I’m more driven now because I feel like I’m running out of time to accomplish (or at least attempt to accomplish) the main things I want to do in life. Yes, it’s a bit more of a challenge to find time, but looking back I can see where I wasted massive chunks of time in my 20s, so it’s nothing that better time management and prioritization can’t fix.
Same, but I think the reasons are more complicated.
Our body is failing. We get hungry, thirstier, and sleepier much quicker. Find a way to fix these, and you will remediate your issue.
And start taking Lion's Mane NOW.
Our body is failing. We get hungry, thirstier, and sleepier much quicker. Find a way to fix these, and you will remediate your issue.
And start taking Lion's Mane NOW.
As I get older (I’m now 58) I see a marked tendency for mental acuity to go one of two directions.
The most common is a slow hardening of one’s opinions and perceptions that I consider a form of mental decline. These people are often susceptible to propaganda and conspiracy.
But I also know people who’s curiosity expands and their thirst for knowledge grows with a deep understanding of life informed by experience. You can have wonderful conversations full of nuance that are inspiring.
You can guess which is more interesting and rewarding.
Sometime ago I read a popular article that compared artists and scientists who peak early in their careers to those who peak much, much later - building on one hard earned success after the other. I wish I could find the link because my summary here is probably missing the mark a little.
The most common is a slow hardening of one’s opinions and perceptions that I consider a form of mental decline. These people are often susceptible to propaganda and conspiracy.
But I also know people who’s curiosity expands and their thirst for knowledge grows with a deep understanding of life informed by experience. You can have wonderful conversations full of nuance that are inspiring.
You can guess which is more interesting and rewarding.
Sometime ago I read a popular article that compared artists and scientists who peak early in their careers to those who peak much, much later - building on one hard earned success after the other. I wish I could find the link because my summary here is probably missing the mark a little.
Curiosity is a trait and belief, absolutely independent of aging. As the saying, the more you know the more you know what you don't know.
However, gaining the ability of being curiosity is something only can be trained in young age.
There is a huge propaganda against boomer going on right now, as the youth joked, covid is the boomer remover. However, contrary to the claim, it's not a biological difference rather a result of generational ideology. People like Steve Jobs however few, despite age as a boomer many would agree he's still a way smarter and innovative person than most millennium.
What's really driving the anti-boomer movement is the wealth gap in society. Let's say just leave to it if you don't want to dig it.
However, gaining the ability of being curiosity is something only can be trained in young age.
There is a huge propaganda against boomer going on right now, as the youth joked, covid is the boomer remover. However, contrary to the claim, it's not a biological difference rather a result of generational ideology. People like Steve Jobs however few, despite age as a boomer many would agree he's still a way smarter and innovative person than most millennium.
What's really driving the anti-boomer movement is the wealth gap in society. Let's say just leave to it if you don't want to dig it.
> The most common is a slow hardening of one’s opinions and perceptions that I consider a form of mental decline. These people are often susceptible to propaganda and conspiracy.
Maybe similar to people who always do the same exercise to keep in shape, and over time their body optimizes for that exact training so it becomes less effective, I wouldn't be surprised if our opinions become hardened because we thought the same patterns over and over.
But old people falling into propaganda and conspiracy theories? I have no other explanation for that besides mental decline. Younger people fall for those too, but many of them don't have the best mental condition to begin with.
Maybe similar to people who always do the same exercise to keep in shape, and over time their body optimizes for that exact training so it becomes less effective, I wouldn't be surprised if our opinions become hardened because we thought the same patterns over and over.
But old people falling into propaganda and conspiracy theories? I have no other explanation for that besides mental decline. Younger people fall for those too, but many of them don't have the best mental condition to begin with.
Could you please post the article here you've mentioned if you'll find it?
When it comes to human longevity, we're focusing on the wrong thing; we shouldn't be trying to keep ourselves alive for longer in old age, we should be trying to extend the prime part of our lives (let's say currently 20-50).
I would take a shorter life overall if I'm at peak condition for longer.
I would take a shorter life overall if I'm at peak condition for longer.
I don’t think these are exclusive options.
I think it depends on a lot of factors and can’t say whether I’d like a shorter “peak” life.
I think it’s difficult to measure peak until after we’ve reached it. And I would bet my life, or the life of others, on it.
I think it depends on a lot of factors and can’t say whether I’d like a shorter “peak” life.
I think it’s difficult to measure peak until after we’ve reached it. And I would bet my life, or the life of others, on it.
That’s been the main focus of most research I’ve seen in headlines[0], and indeed the important difference between “eternal life” and “eternal youth” has been something people have understood since Gilgamesh, circa 2100 BC.
[0] not being a researcher I don’t know how do a literature study to see what the actual study focus has been
[0] not being a researcher I don’t know how do a literature study to see what the actual study focus has been
Keeping a person healthier is to live a longer life. There's no way to get around that.
This is quite an off-topic take. This paper is about mapping gray and white matter development and change across the natural lifespan.
And one of the main reasons we care to map the brain development over lifetime is because it tends to deteriorate in old age.
I’m in my mid 30s. Reading that our brain’s white matter decline accelerates our 50s is both depressing to me and also makes me realize I need to take retirement planning and the FIRE movement much more seriously.
The article mentions no correlation between shrinking volume and its effects on intelligence or working memory. I wouldn't jump to conclusions quite yet that you are on a doomed path to being useless by 60.
I'm always skeptical of anecdotal evidence, but the chart indicates that between the age of 25 and 41 I have a ~7% decrease in my volume. I've seen absolutely zero change in my mental abilities over that time, and at 41 I am operating at an even higher level than I ever have before in an extremely high pressure environment.
What has changed in that time? I get physically tired more easily and staying up super late can mess with me for days afterwards. I've also noticed a slight decrease in performance when it comes to high speed adrenaline sports (which is demonstrated by some gnarly injuries in the last six years). Mentally though? Nothing.
I'm always skeptical of anecdotal evidence, but the chart indicates that between the age of 25 and 41 I have a ~7% decrease in my volume. I've seen absolutely zero change in my mental abilities over that time, and at 41 I am operating at an even higher level than I ever have before in an extremely high pressure environment.
What has changed in that time? I get physically tired more easily and staying up super late can mess with me for days afterwards. I've also noticed a slight decrease in performance when it comes to high speed adrenaline sports (which is demonstrated by some gnarly injuries in the last six years). Mentally though? Nothing.
Personally I've felt the impact of age (mid 40's). Learning new stuff isn't too difficult, but remembering things has become more problematic as I've gotten older. I encounter the "tip of my tongue" problem more frequently than I used to.
With recreation I play video games a lot and I feel a slight reduction in my reaction speed but otherwise I feel no other impact from my age. (Except maybe vision, but luckily that is easily corrected).
With recreation I play video games a lot and I feel a slight reduction in my reaction speed but otherwise I feel no other impact from my age. (Except maybe vision, but luckily that is easily corrected).
> I'm always skeptical of anecdotal evidence, but the chart indicates that between the age of 25 and 41 I have a ~7% decrease in my volume. I've seen absolutely zero change in my mental abilities over that time, and at 41 I am operating at an even higher level than I ever have before in an extremely high pressure environment.
It's because you have accumulated skills (life experience) over time, it's not just a matter of raw intelligence, it's all the additional structure that goes around it as you learn more and more tricks as you age, too. You can actually "increase in level" as you age rather than decline, at least for most of your typical working career.
It's because you have accumulated skills (life experience) over time, it's not just a matter of raw intelligence, it's all the additional structure that goes around it as you learn more and more tricks as you age, too. You can actually "increase in level" as you age rather than decline, at least for most of your typical working career.
I'm absolutely certain you're operating at a higher level of competence not despite your age but because of your age. experience makes life significantly easier. Studies have shown that older people excel at ignoring irrelevant information and stressors while young people have more trouble 'paying attention'
Though the human mind/body is excellent at maintaining homeostasis which means you generally don't notice how incapacitated you are despite doing worse on general tests at certain conditions.
Though the human mind/body is excellent at maintaining homeostasis which means you generally don't notice how incapacitated you are despite doing worse on general tests at certain conditions.
Volumetric brain researcher here. Volumetric decreases across development do not represent a singular causal process. Same for volumetric increases. Volumetric changes can reflect a number of developmental processes, often concurrently and in opposite directions. I suspect that the declines in middle adulthood are not caused by the same causes of declines in the elderly, or at different stages, or a by a different mixture of causes.
Here is an example from my own research on amygdala growth, headed by my colleague Derek Andrews, a great scientist and colleague.https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35341582/
Here is an example from my own research on amygdala growth, headed by my colleague Derek Andrews, a great scientist and colleague.https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35341582/
It's a bit sad to ponder. On the other hand, the volume of white matter is still rather close to it's maximum, even at 60 years. And probably there are also individual variations, both when it comes to the timing of the onset of the decline, and the rapidity of it.
I read about Stradivarius the other day. His "golden years", the years when the quality of his work was considered to be at it's peak, was from he was 50 until he was around 80.
I read about Stradivarius the other day. His "golden years", the years when the quality of his work was considered to be at it's peak, was from he was 50 until he was around 80.
Oh, thanks for the spoiler! (J/K) I wasn't going to click through --I'm 58. :-(
See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30942921 , https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30942502 .
(And, more tangentially: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30920287 )
See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30942921 , https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30942502 .
(And, more tangentially: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30920287 )
Because I have more discipline and focus later in life, I'm able to learn much faster (and perform much faster) than I was in my 20s. Eventually I'm sure it will decline as I age, but I can code about 3x faster now than I could twenty years ago.
The biggest impact I see in my 40s is my video game reflexes. I used to crush my friends and do well on fps games. Now I am consistently at or near the bottom. My other older friends also get crushed by younger players. It’s just this weird thing where things seem to move faster than I can perceive.
Some of that could be that they started gaming at a younger age and their brain is wired stronger for fast reflex.
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On top of the mental decline I've also noticed I'm just more tired and less driven generally. Even if I have a good idea and I'm able to learn what I need to learn to execute on it, I can't convince myself to do the all nighters or the networking to make my idea a success anymore.
I guess it's not all so bad though. I still feel sharp and physical capable for my age. I also have a ton of knowledge about the world generally and I feel my predictive ability in recent years has gotten far better. I just know how things are going to play out and how people will react to things if that makes sense. For the first time in my life I'm really starting to appreciate the wisdom my dad has too. It's quite funny how much advice of his I've dismissed over the years only to find out later that he was probably right.