Ask HN: Have you gotten a job after attending a coding academy?
20 comments
For everyone reading, being on the hiring side I would advise against bootcamps. We pretty much stopped recruiting from those because the signal to noise ratio was just too low.
It seems a lot of bootcamps teach with rote, rather than by looking at the underlying concepts. My favorite example is git. I've seen bootcamp grads claim they can use git, but what it really meant is that they memorized a few git commands and as long as they don't stray too far from those, they can sort of work using git. But cherry-picking, rebase, proper branching forget it.
I'm extremely skeptical of bootcamps, especially after learning that some of the TA's at Lambda (the most famous one) are hired to help with teaching as little as two months into the program as students[0]. I guess that counts toward their "placement" stats!
Not only that, but Lambda seems so desperate that they will offer a fresh grad at no cost to any company for a 4 weeks trial period. [1]. And that's, sadly, the most high profile one out there.
Notice there's no "Law Bootcamp" out there.
[0] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-p...
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25138610
It seems a lot of bootcamps teach with rote, rather than by looking at the underlying concepts. My favorite example is git. I've seen bootcamp grads claim they can use git, but what it really meant is that they memorized a few git commands and as long as they don't stray too far from those, they can sort of work using git. But cherry-picking, rebase, proper branching forget it.
I'm extremely skeptical of bootcamps, especially after learning that some of the TA's at Lambda (the most famous one) are hired to help with teaching as little as two months into the program as students[0]. I guess that counts toward their "placement" stats!
Not only that, but Lambda seems so desperate that they will offer a fresh grad at no cost to any company for a 4 weeks trial period. [1]. And that's, sadly, the most high profile one out there.
Notice there's no "Law Bootcamp" out there.
[0] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-p...
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25138610
Wow, in order to source from Bloom, you have to pay a membership fee to Bloom, and even then, you aren’t allowed access to their database.
How is this candidate first?
Their FAQ also says they changed their name to reflect their mission better, except the founder has flat out said it was due to trademark issues.
Their list of companies are those that hired someone who graduated from bloom, not a company that is a member of their Fellowship program.
Sketchy.
How is this candidate first?
Their FAQ also says they changed their name to reflect their mission better, except the founder has flat out said it was due to trademark issues.
Their list of companies are those that hired someone who graduated from bloom, not a company that is a member of their Fellowship program.
Sketchy.
They don't teach git in CS either (in depth), but I expect you're right on rote memorization. The whole draw is they could be completed in as little as a few months, for relatively low expense.
On the other hand I see complaints that many CS grads "can't code". So what does that leave you?
On the other hand I see complaints that many CS grads "can't code". So what does that leave you?
I can't do quite a few git commands off my memory either, in spite of working for years.
I feel like this is the opposite of what you are claiming you want.
The common git workflow would be the thing you expect people to know off the top of their head. The uncommon less frequent ideas may need documentation.
Having team members memorize esoteric commands isn't the signal you're looking for. You want people who can read documentation and execute.
Tooling requirements change all the time. Knowing one tool really well doesn't mean anything. I care that you can pick up any tool, at any time and have a path forward to productivity.
To be fair and to agree with your original point, memorization isn't that path forward.
The common git workflow would be the thing you expect people to know off the top of their head. The uncommon less frequent ideas may need documentation.
Having team members memorize esoteric commands isn't the signal you're looking for. You want people who can read documentation and execute.
Tooling requirements change all the time. Knowing one tool really well doesn't mean anything. I care that you can pick up any tool, at any time and have a path forward to productivity.
To be fair and to agree with your original point, memorization isn't that path forward.
I would assume that true of most of the senior devs in bigger companies I worked for. They just follow the normal get process every time and never have to consider rebasing or cherry-picking
I did a hackreactor comapny in maybe 2017 (they consolidated it).
1. Not really sure what i learned but did so many algorithms that I could get a job.
2. Got a job with a bum company for $97k
3. Went to a major public tech company and made avg comp of $315k (mainly thanks to their stock taking off).
4. I have spent a lot of free time doing algorithms, coding in different languages, building full stack apps/projects, taking classes and doing online courses.
I think "starting" your career on solid footing is subjective based on your mentality and WHICH bootcamp. I have not heard good things about General Assembly nor their outcomes.
1. Not really sure what i learned but did so many algorithms that I could get a job.
2. Got a job with a bum company for $97k
3. Went to a major public tech company and made avg comp of $315k (mainly thanks to their stock taking off).
4. I have spent a lot of free time doing algorithms, coding in different languages, building full stack apps/projects, taking classes and doing online courses.
I think "starting" your career on solid footing is subjective based on your mentality and WHICH bootcamp. I have not heard good things about General Assembly nor their outcomes.
> Not really sure what i learned but did so many algorithms that I could get a job.
Guess that sums up the hiring mess we are in perfectly…
Guess that sums up the hiring mess we are in perfectly…
This is impressive for a short term program.
I’ve taught myself coding using codeacademy, freecodecamp and unity (game dev).
Wasn’t hard because I was having fun. But I guess I “studied” for around 12 hours a day for around 6 months. As I had no piece of paper certifying that I could code, I wrote copious number of apps and one of them was a full stack discord clone app which happened to impress the interviewers.
The interview got me into (arguably) the best graduate programme in my country. And I had an amazing team with interesting (albeit over engineered) stack which was an amazing start to my career.
Wasn’t hard because I was having fun. But I guess I “studied” for around 12 hours a day for around 6 months. As I had no piece of paper certifying that I could code, I wrote copious number of apps and one of them was a full stack discord clone app which happened to impress the interviewers.
The interview got me into (arguably) the best graduate programme in my country. And I had an amazing team with interesting (albeit over engineered) stack which was an amazing start to my career.
I majored in history and was working as a carpenter. I started with CS50 on edX. Then did freecodecamp and fun projects for a year in my spare time after work. Then quit my job and did a semester of undergrad CS and Math at a cheap state school, got an IT internship, and volunteered with a research group at school. One semester of that was enough to get a basic programming job which led to my current job which I love.
I strongly considered a bootcamp but I couldn't justify the expense given the amount of free educational material that exists on the internet and uncertainty of how the credential would be perceived.
I strongly considered a bootcamp but I couldn't justify the expense given the amount of free educational material that exists on the internet and uncertainty of how the credential would be perceived.
Intriguing! I have a marketing background and currently stuck in customer support role.
I also did Edx CS50! I also started freecodecamp (Javascript course) and have been working on a chromedriver bot to practice and learn.
Did you do all the freecodecamp courses?
Did you do all the freecodecamp courses?
I did at age 40+
The program was through the local university but in reality their continuing education department ran a coding camp program from some third party.
Camp was challenging/ but not hard.
I got a job about 5 months after completing the program. The job was for a small company, did not pay “a lot” but once I proved myself my pay quickly went way up.
I really liked the classroom experience and being able to ask questions. Could I have learned it all myself, yes. As quickly at a camp, nope.
What was funny was I was a TERRIBLE college student at that age. At the camp I found as an adult I was the opposite.
IMO career footing is your willingness to figure things out on your own and curiosity.
Feel free to ask any questions.
The program was through the local university but in reality their continuing education department ran a coding camp program from some third party.
Camp was challenging/ but not hard.
I got a job about 5 months after completing the program. The job was for a small company, did not pay “a lot” but once I proved myself my pay quickly went way up.
I really liked the classroom experience and being able to ask questions. Could I have learned it all myself, yes. As quickly at a camp, nope.
What was funny was I was a TERRIBLE college student at that age. At the camp I found as an adult I was the opposite.
IMO career footing is your willingness to figure things out on your own and curiosity.
Feel free to ask any questions.
Did App Academy in 2015.
1. Hardest thing I ever did, up to that point.
2. $105k starting salary
3. The most important thing it did was get me in the door as a software engineer. I actually learned and became decent on the job. I took those skills and built my own company years later.
Hope it helps!
1. Hardest thing I ever did, up to that point.
2. $105k starting salary
3. The most important thing it did was get me in the door as a software engineer. I actually learned and became decent on the job. I took those skills and built my own company years later.
Hope it helps!
I did Galvanize in the first half of 2016. 6 month program that I’m glad I did over some of the shorter ones.
Salary was 90k coming out. I make 125 now, could be making much more but I chose to sacrifice some salary to be at a place with a mission I support.
I was a special ed teacher before and had never made more than 70k.
Salary was 90k coming out. I make 125 now, could be making much more but I chose to sacrifice some salary to be at a place with a mission I support.
I was a special ed teacher before and had never made more than 70k.
Completed a 6 month bootcamp via UT Austin around 2018.
1. It was challenging for sure, especially from a time management standpoint. I'd estimate that I was putting in 15-25 hours per week between participating in classes and working on group projects. That's a lot to take on while working full time. It starts off easy and ramps up in difficulty as you near your final group project. Fwiw, you can significantly reduce the learning curve by completing some online self-study/tutorials before hand and by investing in a nice laptop.
2. 120k starting salary. I transitioned into a full time software engineering roll with my existing employer. My employer also reimbursed me for a portion of the cost of the program.
3. The bootcamp was an excellent crash course into the world of full stack web development but I don't think it was a good foundation on its own per say. I think that the combination of a bootcamp and some real world experience could make a solid foundation assuming you land in the right work environment.
It takes a ton of work to complete a coding bootcamp and the networking/interviewing that follows is equally challenging. I'd suggest reaching out to individuals who successfully completed the programs you're interested in to get their two cents. Listen to their stories and ask them to reflect on how well they performed in their programs. Maybe you could find them on a LinkedIn alumni group or something like that? You could also reach out to former instructors and I bet they can point you in the right direction. My point is that I think you could really benefit from reaching beyond forums like HN, Reddit, etc for this kind of info/advice.
1. It was challenging for sure, especially from a time management standpoint. I'd estimate that I was putting in 15-25 hours per week between participating in classes and working on group projects. That's a lot to take on while working full time. It starts off easy and ramps up in difficulty as you near your final group project. Fwiw, you can significantly reduce the learning curve by completing some online self-study/tutorials before hand and by investing in a nice laptop.
2. 120k starting salary. I transitioned into a full time software engineering roll with my existing employer. My employer also reimbursed me for a portion of the cost of the program.
3. The bootcamp was an excellent crash course into the world of full stack web development but I don't think it was a good foundation on its own per say. I think that the combination of a bootcamp and some real world experience could make a solid foundation assuming you land in the right work environment.
It takes a ton of work to complete a coding bootcamp and the networking/interviewing that follows is equally challenging. I'd suggest reaching out to individuals who successfully completed the programs you're interested in to get their two cents. Listen to their stories and ask them to reflect on how well they performed in their programs. Maybe you could find them on a LinkedIn alumni group or something like that? You could also reach out to former instructors and I bet they can point you in the right direction. My point is that I think you could really benefit from reaching beyond forums like HN, Reddit, etc for this kind of info/advice.
I attended a bootcamp in 2018, and I'd wager that that's when the market started to get flush with bootcamp and CS grads. In 2019 and onward, I feel like I would've had a much harder time finding a job.
1. It took 13-14 interviews across 7 months to get my first job.
2. The salary for the area was not competitive, but I wanted to have something.
3. Yes. I applied for my second job two years later, and I had about 48 interviews across a 6 month period. The salary may not be considered competitive to some, but it's a bit over six figures and a lot more than what I made at my first job.
1. It took 13-14 interviews across 7 months to get my first job.
2. The salary for the area was not competitive, but I wanted to have something.
3. Yes. I applied for my second job two years later, and I had about 48 interviews across a 6 month period. The salary may not be considered competitive to some, but it's a bit over six figures and a lot more than what I made at my first job.
Not a bootcamp but does anyone here have experience or an opinion about Launch School? I know someone who is thinking of attending.
I love Launch School. As you mention, it's definitely not a 'bootcamp' as people normally think of one.
You're not locked into an $XXXXX program - it's a straight $200/mo (which can be paused/restarted any time; no contract) for as long as it takes you.
The focus is on truly learning concepts. Once you're out of the Prep course, you have to pass written and oral assessments to move on to the next part of the program.
Take a look at their intro material (free):
https://launchschool.com/books https://launchschool.com/courses
They also encourage students to publish experiences during (and after) the course:
https://medium.com/launch-school
That said, I've been start/stopping for the past couple of years and can't speak highly enough about it. I'm hoping life has settled down enough for me to start back in a month or so (and finally complete the core curriculum!)
You're not locked into an $XXXXX program - it's a straight $200/mo (which can be paused/restarted any time; no contract) for as long as it takes you.
The focus is on truly learning concepts. Once you're out of the Prep course, you have to pass written and oral assessments to move on to the next part of the program.
Take a look at their intro material (free):
https://launchschool.com/books https://launchschool.com/courses
They also encourage students to publish experiences during (and after) the course:
https://medium.com/launch-school
That said, I've been start/stopping for the past couple of years and can't speak highly enough about it. I'm hoping life has settled down enough for me to start back in a month or so (and finally complete the core curriculum!)
I would sincerely recommend the Odin project.com and freecodecamp.org.
Did you get a competitive salary?
Do you think you are starting your career on a solid footing?