Ask HN: Which movie(s) best represent hacker culture for you?
'hacker' in the same context it's used in 'hacker news'
67 comments
Silicon Valley is a TV show, not a movie, but it seems to get pretty close to representing the evolution of a startup for a series which appeals to a lot of people. It's less focused on hacking as a plot device than, say, Mr Robot, and more focused on the business side of running a software company (so the technical details as explained by characters ring a little flat).
To me this has nothing to do with hacker culture. Hacker culture in the broadest sense means doing creative work with technology, I would not identify that with startup culture as many hackers have strong aversions against startups.
I found Silicon Valley looked nothing whatsoever like my experience in SV. It was exaggerated in the extreme at best or at worst just outright made up. Then again I only have my experiences to compare to. Maybe others it matched their's exactly.
Hacker Culture, to me atleast is somewhat broad.
Here are some places where I found good representations:
1. Halt and Catch Fire: 70s/80s tech scene. Full stack hackers building products, companies. Depicts the hackers, code monkeys, visionary types, managers, financers- everyone. Also shows the transition of the business scene from analog to digital.
2. Westworld (Season 1 only) is brilliant. It depicts the ambition, the hubris involved in creating something new and grand.
3. The Travelling Salesman: P vs NP is solved. What are the implications, what are the uses, how will the State react? What is the role of the people imvolved?
4. Primer: Mind bending movie on time machine.
5. and 6. Imitation Game and A Beautiful Mind: I believe most people on HN will like these.
7. Agora is a hidden gem not many know about. It is anout Hypatia.
8. Dangerous Knowledge is a documentary about paradigm changing science. Godel, Turing, Boltzmann are covered.
9. Fractals is also a nice documentary with interviews from Mendelbrot.
10. Codebreaker is a mich more accurate biography of Turing that covers other aspects of his, not limited to his codebreaking and homosexuality.
11. Internet's Own Boy: The Story of Aaron Swartz: very nice and left a deep impression in me.
____
I am yet to watch:
1. Hidden Figures
2. Stand and Deliver
3. I'm In
4. TPB: AFK
5. Pirates of Silicon Valley
6. Triumph of the Nerds
____
Harvard Professor Oliver Knill has a list and clips from movies where math appears: https://people.math.harvard.edu/~knill/mathmovies/
____
I came to know a lot of these movies through Kagi search and Reddit search. "Best movies for mathematicians and computer scientists" and similar searches.
Here are some places where I found good representations:
1. Halt and Catch Fire: 70s/80s tech scene. Full stack hackers building products, companies. Depicts the hackers, code monkeys, visionary types, managers, financers- everyone. Also shows the transition of the business scene from analog to digital.
2. Westworld (Season 1 only) is brilliant. It depicts the ambition, the hubris involved in creating something new and grand.
3. The Travelling Salesman: P vs NP is solved. What are the implications, what are the uses, how will the State react? What is the role of the people imvolved?
4. Primer: Mind bending movie on time machine.
5. and 6. Imitation Game and A Beautiful Mind: I believe most people on HN will like these.
7. Agora is a hidden gem not many know about. It is anout Hypatia.
8. Dangerous Knowledge is a documentary about paradigm changing science. Godel, Turing, Boltzmann are covered.
9. Fractals is also a nice documentary with interviews from Mendelbrot.
10. Codebreaker is a mich more accurate biography of Turing that covers other aspects of his, not limited to his codebreaking and homosexuality.
11. Internet's Own Boy: The Story of Aaron Swartz: very nice and left a deep impression in me.
____
I am yet to watch:
1. Hidden Figures
2. Stand and Deliver
3. I'm In
4. TPB: AFK
5. Pirates of Silicon Valley
6. Triumph of the Nerds
____
Harvard Professor Oliver Knill has a list and clips from movies where math appears: https://people.math.harvard.edu/~knill/mathmovies/
____
I came to know a lot of these movies through Kagi search and Reddit search. "Best movies for mathematicians and computer scientists" and similar searches.
> Pirates of Silicon Valley
Haven't thought of that movie in years. Not bad by any means, and I'd say it's worth the watch. Broad strokes Microsoft and Apple development, and stays entertaining. Not as deep as the Steve Jobs films (I always mess up the titles from the good and the bad one) from a few years ago, but still enjoyable.
Haven't thought of that movie in years. Not bad by any means, and I'd say it's worth the watch. Broad strokes Microsoft and Apple development, and stays entertaining. Not as deep as the Steve Jobs films (I always mess up the titles from the good and the bad one) from a few years ago, but still enjoyable.
Moneyball: algorithm design and team management based on that algorithm.
Mr. Robot / Who Am I
Mr. Robot / Who Am I
I found that part of Westworld repulsive. I've never seen a CEO nor a designer that could be as over the top as the CEO and designer characters in that show and keep their job.
Awesome list, thanks for taking the time to write all this. Looking forward to watching some of these!
The most knowledgeable hackers were consulted for 'The Matrix' (0-day SSHv1 CRC32 scene), 'The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo' (a surprising homage to the actual PWN Phone, some micro details only a hacker would know, etc).
But these are more of side devices. No movie captures the culture as such — neither the original meaning, nor the illegal, nor the current business.
'The Social Network' attempted to take on a particular narrow aspect of it, and while the results are mixed, it did capture some of the real vibe.
TV — of course 'Silicon Valley', since it was already mentioned. The 'jerking off' algorithm was researched by a real team, and some of the members are here.
But these are more of side devices. No movie captures the culture as such — neither the original meaning, nor the illegal, nor the current business.
'The Social Network' attempted to take on a particular narrow aspect of it, and while the results are mixed, it did capture some of the real vibe.
TV — of course 'Silicon Valley', since it was already mentioned. The 'jerking off' algorithm was researched by a real team, and some of the members are here.
Real Genius (1985) is a pretty good one. Apollo 13 has some hardware hack stuff. Wargames (1983) a little bit. Hackers (1995) did a good job of capturing what it felt like online during the tail end of the HPA BBS thing. Halt and Catch Fire is a good TV show. Others have mentioned Silicon Valley, Office Space and Mr Robot. The best related thing I’ve seen lately is Apple TV’s Mythic Quest, lolling right now thinking about it. Watch all of these.
Wow! Hackers (1995)!! No one else mentioned it.
What context is the use in "hacker news"? We see news of security research and attacks but also peope findinf ways to use technology in an unintended or non-obvious way.
The first movie (only?) that I have heard them mention the hacker manifesto is there. Nothing else comes close in spirit (although some do better in technical detail or good plotline).
I thought I won this argument with everyone a long time ago, I see there are those of you I have yet to convert.
What context is the use in "hacker news"? We see news of security research and attacks but also peope findinf ways to use technology in an unintended or non-obvious way.
The first movie (only?) that I have heard them mention the hacker manifesto is there. Nothing else comes close in spirit (although some do better in technical detail or good plotline).
I thought I won this argument with everyone a long time ago, I see there are those of you I have yet to convert.
Hackers was a good movie. But hacker culture is a bunch of overweight dudes.
And that’s not what mainframes look like.
And that’s not what mainframes look like.
Growing up the hacker culture most resembled War Games for me.
After high school, it began to resemble The Loan Gunmen from X-Files and maybe a little Sneakers.
Later on, in the late 90s, it began to resemble Hackers, but I felt all out of place in that environment, with the wild hair, outfits, and theatrics.
Now, I don’t follow the culture, so I don’t know — probably Office Space? Few seem to have a deep understanding of anything, let alone many things.
After high school, it began to resemble The Loan Gunmen from X-Files and maybe a little Sneakers.
Later on, in the late 90s, it began to resemble Hackers, but I felt all out of place in that environment, with the wild hair, outfits, and theatrics.
Now, I don’t follow the culture, so I don’t know — probably Office Space? Few seem to have a deep understanding of anything, let alone many things.
Depending on what you mean by hacker culture:
In the "unauthorized access" sense, Sneakers is great, especially with how they much they make use of social engineering. Pretty good from a technical perspective too- I think if you replaced the Mcguffin with a quantum computer that can break asymmetric crypto algos the plot would hold up just as well today (not coincidentally, Len Adleman, the A in "RSA", was a technical consultant).
On the "building something cool in a scrappy way" (aka engineering porn), I'd go with The Martian
In the "unauthorized access" sense, Sneakers is great, especially with how they much they make use of social engineering. Pretty good from a technical perspective too- I think if you replaced the Mcguffin with a quantum computer that can break asymmetric crypto algos the plot would hold up just as well today (not coincidentally, Len Adleman, the A in "RSA", was a technical consultant).
On the "building something cool in a scrappy way" (aka engineering porn), I'd go with The Martian
"October Sky"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Sky
Learning for the joy of it, even in the face of opposition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Sky
Learning for the joy of it, even in the face of opposition.
Pi, directed by Darren Aronofsky: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0138704
Also Halt And Catch Fire was decent: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2543312
Also Halt And Catch Fire was decent: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2543312
Yeah, not a movie but I feel like Halt and Catch captures the hacker ethos the best. I loved it.
I always thought Takedown was decent https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0159784/
This is based on Tsutomu Shimomura's account of the events that culminated in the arrest of Kevin Mitnick.
at least the tech was real and accurate as far as I remember but not about hackers in the true sense of the word.
If you want good non-fiction stories about true hackers I would recommend the book 'Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution'
This is based on Tsutomu Shimomura's account of the events that culminated in the arrest of Kevin Mitnick.
at least the tech was real and accurate as far as I remember but not about hackers in the true sense of the word.
If you want good non-fiction stories about true hackers I would recommend the book 'Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution'
Takedown is a very good film, hard to get/see too.
That being said I’m not sure that’s what hacker refers to in HN.
That being said I’m not sure that’s what hacker refers to in HN.
Great quality version downloads fast with this torrent:
595C6CD6F529472BCB9BC0311DE9D67137C740E5
https://thepiratebay.org/description.php?id=40985555
595C6CD6F529472BCB9BC0311DE9D67137C740E5
https://thepiratebay.org/description.php?id=40985555
Yes, Sneakers. Their love of tech, comraderie based on ability. Sure leads down a Hollywood path but it has some great moments and (some) real characters.
Primer might be another good one. I certainly enjoyed it immensely and found it superbly technically excellent.
Primer might be another good one. I certainly enjoyed it immensely and found it superbly technically excellent.
Yes, Primer! Have no idea what happened in that movie, but it was amazing.
It really gave a good reproduction of Silicon Valley corporate culture.
It really gave a good reproduction of Silicon Valley corporate culture.
Here you go!
https://thecinemaholic.com/primer-explained/
https://unrealitymag.com/at-last-a-definitive-timeline-for-p...
Or, as recommended here, watch again with the commentary found half-way down this page: https://www.kevinmuldoon.com/primer-film/
https://thecinemaholic.com/primer-explained/
https://unrealitymag.com/at-last-a-definitive-timeline-for-p...
Or, as recommended here, watch again with the commentary found half-way down this page: https://www.kevinmuldoon.com/primer-film/
It's subtle but them working together late at night on something technical in a quiet office really nailed it for me. It wasn't always the over the top extreme compensation driven atmosphere it is today.
Love your taste. The earliest is probably https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Millions
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I believed it was like war games growing up. I knew it wasn't like hackers but still enjoyed it. I knew the takedown story and it didn't represent the whole community but presented a real slice from one person. Mr Robot is a show but played like a movie and represented a shared vision of what many secretly wanted until everything fell apart.
From my experience hacker culture is more like the movie: The King of Kong with all of the drama/bragging/pettiness of a high school musical fight.
From my experience hacker culture is more like the movie: The King of Kong with all of the drama/bragging/pettiness of a high school musical fight.
I really liked the TV series Halt and Catch Fire. It has a little amount of Hollywood nonsense around being "smart". But only very little.
I loved this and would recommend it to everyone on HN.
I also plan to rewatch it soon.
I really liked how the depict the culture.
I loved this and would recommend it to everyone on HN.
I also plan to rewatch it soon.
I really liked how the depict the culture.
I agree, and was to note that I loved the soundtrack, too.
Two good ones that haven't been mentioned so far:
In the Realm of the Hackers (2003) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1199631/
Revolution OS (2001) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0308808/
In the Realm of the Hackers (2003) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1199631/
Revolution OS (2001) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0308808/
Nice finds, thanks.
Also Antitrust (2001).
Also Antitrust (2001).
Mr Robot is somewhat interesting (at least season 1)
Here in Germany, with the CCC, there are two movies that represents our hacker culture: „23“ and „Everything is one. Except for the 0“
Thank you! They both sound great.
23 (1998) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0126765/
Alles ist eins. Ausser der 0. / Everything is one. Except for the 0 (2020) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11794022/
23 (1998) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0126765/
Alles ist eins. Ausser der 0. / Everything is one. Except for the 0 (2020) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11794022/
The Billion Dollar Code tells the story about an artist and a hacker who build Google Maps before Google Maps. It plays in Berlin, Germany in the 90ies and I really liked the vibe of the whole mini-series. Also the combination of Art and Technology and getting the most out of current technology makes it a good "hacker" series.
Grandma’s Boy and Office Space for movies.
Various aspects of The IT Crowd, Silicon Valley and Mythic Quest for TV shows.
Various aspects of The IT Crowd, Silicon Valley and Mythic Quest for TV shows.
Gamer/nerd culture, perhaps.
Too many facets to this question...
to adolescent me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird_Science_(film)
to middle aged me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Space
But, in relation to HN? Perhaps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22 mixed with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizopolis
to adolescent me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird_Science_(film)
to middle aged me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Space
But, in relation to HN? Perhaps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22 mixed with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizopolis
Thanks, now I'm gonna have some Oingo Boingo songs in my head for some time ;-)
Amusingly, I meant to link to Real Genius, not Weird Science.
My memory seems to confuse these by way of the 80s-college-party scene trope and Oingo Boingo music as in Rodney Dangerfield's Back to School. I am still surprised that Dead Man's Party is not playing in the scenes with Val Kilmer...
My memory seems to confuse these by way of the 80s-college-party scene trope and Oingo Boingo music as in Rodney Dangerfield's Back to School. I am still surprised that Dead Man's Party is not playing in the scenes with Val Kilmer...
None really. I don't think it is something you can convey in hollywood audience mass market attractive format. So it must by necessity contain vast amounts of 3D animated interfaces to portray the hacking. At which point anyone serious about hacking culture is laughing.
"The Social Network" while not true hacker culture (more vc/startup) I think bridged that impossible gap as best as can be I think. Still totally cringey but I think it was a credible attempt at an impossible task
"The Social Network" while not true hacker culture (more vc/startup) I think bridged that impossible gap as best as can be I think. Still totally cringey but I think it was a credible attempt at an impossible task
The Social Network may be reasonably accurate but it doesn’t portray a culture. It’s the story of a handful of people scrambling to make money from an unexpected success, and a single-minded antisocial programmer who falls backwards into vast wealth and power. The personality traits depicted and maybe exaggerated in the movie may be common but they don’t form a culture — rather they are formed by a culture of predatory capitalism and legal maneuvering. American Psycho is the same story as satire, with more knives and less PHP.
Mr Robot for sure. I like Sneakers too but it was before my time. The Matrix, Ghost in the Shell and other similar works touch on "hacking" at its periphery - they simply use it as an instrument for social commentary and philosophical inquiry.
While I enjoyed Hackers (1995) it was also before my time so I don't know how well it was able to capture the mid 90s Dot Com Zeitgeist.
While I enjoyed Hackers (1995) it was also before my time so I don't know how well it was able to capture the mid 90s Dot Com Zeitgeist.
Rainer Werner Fassbinder's 1973 contribution World on a Wire was ahead of its time. It's well worth a watch.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070904
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070904
Another early one, Francis Ford Coppola's The Conversation fits the bill.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071360
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071360
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There’s no “hacker culture.” The movies are fantasies. Programmers in cubicle farms and at standing desks in home offices writing code for money are not a culture. A side project isn’t hacking. The people who do what used to be called hacking are criminals.
The definitions of “hacker” offered by Richard Stallman and Eric Raymond — two people devoid of what we usually mean by “culture” — use the term to describe curiosity, fun, and inventiveness, which English already has good words for.
The definitions of “hacker” offered by Richard Stallman and Eric Raymond — two people devoid of what we usually mean by “culture” — use the term to describe curiosity, fun, and inventiveness, which English already has good words for.
There's a good wikipedia article about the history of the use of the word "hacker" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_culture#Uses
Yeah I’m old enough to remember when “hacker” meant someone who broke into computers they weren’t supposed to get into, before it was a Federal crime.
Now it mainly refers to faux ironic stickers on MacBooks.
Now it mainly refers to faux ironic stickers on MacBooks.
I'm old enough to remember when hackers were unhappy about the rising usage of your definition of "hacker", a pop-culture misunderstanding which did not rise from hacker culture itself...
When I started, around 1982-4, (in my world) the word meant, someone who knows arcane stuff about a computer hardly anyone knows, and with that can do what seems magic. Usually, someone whose knowledge of the hardware means they can do magic with programming. I think I didn't hear the grey/black hat sense (or the hardware-hacking sense or the "life hack" sense of "hack") until years later.
p.s. And mostly, computers weren't connected to anything else. I don't mean magic on a network or anything, just on your own computer.
p.s. And mostly, computers weren't connected to anything else. I don't mean magic on a network or anything, just on your own computer.
There is and was multiple meanings to the word. I can count at least 3 (in chronological order):
1. Open source hackers/hardcore systems programmers that culturally originated in MIT back in 60s (Tech Model Railroad Club, Free Software Foundation, Linux, Free/Open/Net BSD, GNU).
2. Security hackers.
2a. Blackhats: cyber criminals, radical take-no-prisoners hacktivists (90s Phrack, to some extent Defcon, LulzSec, hatefag faction of Anonymous).
2b. Whitehats: security engineers working in corporate settings (both on offensive and defensive sides of security), security consultants, bug bounty hunters (to some extents Defcon, Blackhat conference, NullCon, bug bounty platform communities (HackerOne, BugCrowd, Intigriti)).
2c. Grayhats: some combination/midpoint between the whitehats and blackhats.
3. Technical entrepreneurs (Y Combinator, Indie Hackers, Hacker News, MicroConf).
1. Open source hackers/hardcore systems programmers that culturally originated in MIT back in 60s (Tech Model Railroad Club, Free Software Foundation, Linux, Free/Open/Net BSD, GNU).
2. Security hackers.
2a. Blackhats: cyber criminals, radical take-no-prisoners hacktivists (90s Phrack, to some extent Defcon, LulzSec, hatefag faction of Anonymous).
2b. Whitehats: security engineers working in corporate settings (both on offensive and defensive sides of security), security consultants, bug bounty hunters (to some extents Defcon, Blackhat conference, NullCon, bug bounty platform communities (HackerOne, BugCrowd, Intigriti)).
2c. Grayhats: some combination/midpoint between the whitehats and blackhats.
3. Technical entrepreneurs (Y Combinator, Indie Hackers, Hacker News, MicroConf).
pg's essay titled "The Word Hacker" [0] is also a nice read.
[0]: http://www.paulgraham.com/gba.html
[0]: http://www.paulgraham.com/gba.html
[deleted]
Lone Gunman. Except all the technobabble would be bluster and paranoid conspiracy theories.
Oh wait.
Oh wait.
The Fifth Estate, Mr.Robot and Blackhat. For TV it's Silicon Valley.
The Matrix trilogy is an essential one for me.
The documentary on General Magic.
Westworld
Office Space.
Mr. Robot hands down