Linux Sucks 2022(lunduke.substack.com)
lunduke.substack.com
Linux Sucks 2022
https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linux-sucks-2022
165 comments
"Linux would join Microsoft, Amazon, and Facebook in usage of Rust as a disciplinary tool."
lol
Linux desktop experience does suck, but, BUT, the powerful tools and applications more than make up for it.
Desktop isn't unified (X11 or Wayland), libraries are not unified, the drivers/sound system isnt unified. Its basically a bunch of different flavors with issues that you are stuck with, locked in with.
Google Android has the same binary blob hell for drivers. Chrome OS has some powerful containers (on supported hardware), unlocking more power.
Ubuntu versions are tied to projects, so google and other corps make you use what version they want to dev on their platforms.
Redhat has the same issue, killing off centos community releases for a streamed os platform. (Same as Suse)
Arch at least tries to fit the need of letting you upgrade, but you still have the same issues with a unified platform, but provides the applications, some apps are stale but at least they exist in their community repos.
WSL is really just a platform to allow you to take the power of the terminal to do so many powerful things, skipping the desktop, allowing a windows desktop that solves all the issues linux has.
Pretty much, Windows with WSL, and Android emulation, you can do anything. The only pure linux I have at home now is pi machine, and I only use it as a console box.
But I still play with Arch in vmware (vmware supports nested virtualization, virtualbox doesnt). Its amazing the power windows can unlock linux
Now when the m2 mac mini's come out, I might just have to play with virtualized linux as a desktop. Gaming, android/streaming can fill the lack of games, just as you can do on linux.
Desktop isn't unified (X11 or Wayland), libraries are not unified, the drivers/sound system isnt unified. Its basically a bunch of different flavors with issues that you are stuck with, locked in with.
Google Android has the same binary blob hell for drivers. Chrome OS has some powerful containers (on supported hardware), unlocking more power.
Ubuntu versions are tied to projects, so google and other corps make you use what version they want to dev on their platforms.
Redhat has the same issue, killing off centos community releases for a streamed os platform. (Same as Suse)
Arch at least tries to fit the need of letting you upgrade, but you still have the same issues with a unified platform, but provides the applications, some apps are stale but at least they exist in their community repos.
WSL is really just a platform to allow you to take the power of the terminal to do so many powerful things, skipping the desktop, allowing a windows desktop that solves all the issues linux has.
Pretty much, Windows with WSL, and Android emulation, you can do anything. The only pure linux I have at home now is pi machine, and I only use it as a console box.
But I still play with Arch in vmware (vmware supports nested virtualization, virtualbox doesnt). Its amazing the power windows can unlock linux
Now when the m2 mac mini's come out, I might just have to play with virtualized linux as a desktop. Gaming, android/streaming can fill the lack of games, just as you can do on linux.
>Linux desktop experience does suck
There are sure a lot of improvements to be had, but I would literally go crazy if somebody took away my Linux distros and forced me to use literally anything else. Every other option on the market forces a completely different way of computing that is just ugly, inefficient, non-free and generally shit.
There are sure a lot of improvements to be had, but I would literally go crazy if somebody took away my Linux distros and forced me to use literally anything else. Every other option on the market forces a completely different way of computing that is just ugly, inefficient, non-free and generally shit.
Once I found i3/sway, my dreams came true. So much power and anything less feels useless and ugly.
I get it that it takes some knowledge and tinkering and therefore is not for everyone, but now I would get crazy as well, if somebody takes them off.
I get it that it takes some knowledge and tinkering and therefore is not for everyone, but now I would get crazy as well, if somebody takes them off.
Same here, I now even use FancyWM on any windows machine I need to work on to try and replicate part of the experience. I can't image anything else besides running Linux as my base hosts. The flexibility, power, and clarity of underlying systems compared to something like windows is what I never want to lose
i3 was pretty instant for me and made me go from casually using Linux at home to making Ubuntu 20 LTS a stable daily driver at work. I think I needed one tutorial to get my config and status bar then I was good to go. It took a little while longer to settle on a Tmux config but starting from scratch I very quickly got the most efficient workflow I have ever had.
I get the sense that the majority of people are using their computers in a far different way than I am. For me, my computer is a terminal first (I don’t even start X11 on startup!) and behaves as a text editor, web browser, and a way to execute my software development tasks. Perhaps it’s not the glorious graphic experience most people want, but it is what I want.
In the meantime the lackluster Linux graphics department makes it that I pretty much locked into Windows. While it is getting better, I still miss capable editors like Affinity Photo and Designer, Publisher.
Video and 3D got some good software now, but it remains that for me, Linux should push for graphics development far more.
Video and 3D got some good software now, but it remains that for me, Linux should push for graphics development far more.
My main problem with switching to Linux is that most apps just can't make use of GPU acceleration or HW decoding. This includes browser HW video decoding, HW acceleration in video editors.
There are some CLI hacks you can do to try to fix this but my time is precious and I can't afford to play sysadmin at home.
Meanwhile all HW acceleration use cases have worked flawlessly out of the box on windows every single time, which is why I can't recommend people switch to Linux.
What will they think when they try to watch YouTube or Netflix and the laptop fans ramp up and the battery drains instantly because HW video decode in browser doesn't work out of the box?
There are some CLI hacks you can do to try to fix this but my time is precious and I can't afford to play sysadmin at home.
Meanwhile all HW acceleration use cases have worked flawlessly out of the box on windows every single time, which is why I can't recommend people switch to Linux.
What will they think when they try to watch YouTube or Netflix and the laptop fans ramp up and the battery drains instantly because HW video decode in browser doesn't work out of the box?
> the lackluster Linux graphics department
I have to say that I hate statements like this that manage to project a reversal of responsibilities onto the linux ecosystem. The "lack" is with the vendors of the applications you use, not with linux.
I have to say that I hate statements like this that manage to project a reversal of responsibilities onto the linux ecosystem. The "lack" is with the vendors of the applications you use, not with linux.
This might be correct for you, but incorrect for most of the people. Linux desktop experience may suck even if it does not suck for you particularly.
Well it's true for me too. The first thing I do when I get a new laptop is try out windows (it's pre-installed) and of course I want to like it but it just doesn't compare to GNOME3... I always end up going back to Linux. And I have used both extensively and adapted to both work-flows and I'd say GNOME3 is superior once you adapt to it.
No you don't need a minimize or maximize button, they are actually useless in the GNOME work-flow, and unnecessary on windows too.
No you don't need a minimize or maximize button, they are actually useless in the GNOME work-flow, and unnecessary on windows too.
Could you explain the Gnome workflow and how it doesn't necessitate the use of minimizing and maximizing Windows?
Not parent, but I personally put relevant (few) windows on the same desktop and switch between them with a 3-finger swipe (which is faster/smoother than what OSX have, which is unbearably slow). On a given desktop I change a window by either swiping up with 3 fingers for a fast overview window, or just press Super. Compared to OSX, this view is not that overcrowded (due to easily having more desktops), so I can actually find what I’m looking for, and they also have icons (try having multiple browsers open in osx and finding the one you want). Super+~, which is the same as in OSX is also great for switching between multiple windows of the same program.
i keep most windows in fullscreen and use the expose function or how it's called that shows all windows in reduced size to switch. sometimes i put two or three windows side by side if i need to see them at the same time.
i also make use of multiple workspaces/desktops to arrange windows that are related to each other.
so i use the maximize function but never feel the need to minimize windows unless it's a window that i don't need to reopen ever.
i also make use of multiple workspaces/desktops to arrange windows that are related to each other.
so i use the maximize function but never feel the need to minimize windows unless it's a window that i don't need to reopen ever.
linux on the desktop won't suck with open hardware 2d/3d acceleration. when will this happen? probably never.
> Linux desktop experience does suck
Hard disagree.
I author multimedia documents, play AAA videogames (on Steam and GOG), watch videos, access my gadgets and devices, organize my ebooks collection, print documents on my wireless laser printer, etc.
There's not much desktop Linux cannot easily accomplish for me.
This "bad Linux desktop" meme needs to die.
Hard disagree.
I author multimedia documents, play AAA videogames (on Steam and GOG), watch videos, access my gadgets and devices, organize my ebooks collection, print documents on my wireless laser printer, etc.
There's not much desktop Linux cannot easily accomplish for me.
This "bad Linux desktop" meme needs to die.
A desktop is a million little transparent standard functionalities, you can list everything that works and I'll certainly celebrate it with you because it gets better every year and I love it, but hundreds of broken functionalities remain.
Every time I install Linux there is something that doesn't work. As recently as last year it took me days to get the Wifi working because of driver problems. I still haven't got Bluetooth to work right on my current workstation. Similarly the USB file transfer UI is broken because the buffer size is too large and it's not been accounted for in the transfer completion calculation. It's a million things and pretty basic and essential ones.
And it's impossible to debug, you have to spend 10 hours typing obscure commands because the Linux voodoo-priests have never heard of buttons and GUIs.
It used to be that Windows worked for every standard small functionality. And on the rare occasions when you had a problem you would immediately know what part of the control panel or the registry to go to and fix it yourself. Occasionally you had to google and people would give you simple instructions to follow. That was before Microsoft ruined it, but my point is there was a clear difference between Linux and Windows and the best Linux distro did not come close to the level of UX that Windows did.
It's not a fair comparison because Linux is so fragmented but to me it remains that the Linux desktop experience is broken in some way for many people who use it.
Every time I install Linux there is something that doesn't work. As recently as last year it took me days to get the Wifi working because of driver problems. I still haven't got Bluetooth to work right on my current workstation. Similarly the USB file transfer UI is broken because the buffer size is too large and it's not been accounted for in the transfer completion calculation. It's a million things and pretty basic and essential ones.
And it's impossible to debug, you have to spend 10 hours typing obscure commands because the Linux voodoo-priests have never heard of buttons and GUIs.
It used to be that Windows worked for every standard small functionality. And on the rare occasions when you had a problem you would immediately know what part of the control panel or the registry to go to and fix it yourself. Occasionally you had to google and people would give you simple instructions to follow. That was before Microsoft ruined it, but my point is there was a clear difference between Linux and Windows and the best Linux distro did not come close to the level of UX that Windows did.
It's not a fair comparison because Linux is so fragmented but to me it remains that the Linux desktop experience is broken in some way for many people who use it.
>And on the rare occasions when you had a problem you would immediately know what part of the control panel or the registry to go to and fix it yourself. Occasionally you had to google...
I don't believe anyone in the history of ever has fixed a problem on their Windows box by confidently wading into the system registry and changing exactly the correct thing. Of all the things to wave around as superior to the Linux way of doing things, the system registry is an odd choice.
In fact, I lay a challenge: without googling, type the full path of any single registry key.
I don't believe anyone in the history of ever has fixed a problem on their Windows box by confidently wading into the system registry and changing exactly the correct thing. Of all the things to wave around as superior to the Linux way of doing things, the system registry is an odd choice.
In fact, I lay a challenge: without googling, type the full path of any single registry key.
I can’t pass your challenge but I’ve done it. Memory doesn’t work that way.
Open regedit HKLM/CurrentVersion?/MicrosoftWindows/…/<something>/Run and delete whatever dumb Dell startup tray app has set itself up to start automatically. I don’t remember the name of the key but I can navigate to it quickly using arrow keys.
Of course this is many years ago before I knew about msconfig…
Open regedit HKLM/CurrentVersion?/MicrosoftWindows/…/<something>/Run and delete whatever dumb Dell startup tray app has set itself up to start automatically. I don’t remember the name of the key but I can navigate to it quickly using arrow keys.
Of course this is many years ago before I knew about msconfig…
>In fact, I lay a challenge: without googling, type the full path of any single registry key.
Strawman.
You can click registry paths and look around, you can search, and sometimes when something is borked, messages in the logs even tell you what registry key to fiddle with.
I've been fiddling with the registry before google was around, so it certainly does not require google or any search. Those only make it easier to share things with others.
Strawman.
You can click registry paths and look around, you can search, and sometimes when something is borked, messages in the logs even tell you what registry key to fiddle with.
I've been fiddling with the registry before google was around, so it certainly does not require google or any search. Those only make it easier to share things with others.
> but hundreds of broken functionalities remain.
And since pretty much forever, even more so on Windows.
The difference is that windows users are used to those defects, they pretty much probably didnt realize there was a choice, so that is always the baseline for them.
On the whole, if you took a blank computer, gave linux and gave windows, people who had never used a computer before would find themselves more helped with linux than windows. Hell, for nearly a decade it was impossible to install windows on a sata disk(which was by far the standard) without breaking out a floppy drive.
And since pretty much forever, even more so on Windows.
The difference is that windows users are used to those defects, they pretty much probably didnt realize there was a choice, so that is always the baseline for them.
On the whole, if you took a blank computer, gave linux and gave windows, people who had never used a computer before would find themselves more helped with linux than windows. Hell, for nearly a decade it was impossible to install windows on a sata disk(which was by far the standard) without breaking out a floppy drive.
Is this satire? People just think Windows has majority market share by chance? You can't beat free except in the OS space and not with quality?
Users will shop around for web browsers and everything else but settle for Windows because... why?
Users will shop around for web browsers and everything else but settle for Windows because... why?
You said it yourself, free beats everything else. For the vast majority of people the OS is free, they either buy a Mac (OSX already installed) or a Windows PC with Windows already installed. So installing Linux is actually not free (it requires extra work).
I would actually not be surprised if the market share of Linux exceeds the market share of Windows where Windows was installed by the user (let's exclude corporate environments because the discussion is much more complicated)
I would actually not be surprised if the market share of Linux exceeds the market share of Windows where Windows was installed by the user (let's exclude corporate environments because the discussion is much more complicated)
No, the point is just because something became popular doesn't mean it was because it was a high quality product technically or in UI. The early iPods sucked in usability (controversial!) And functionality, but became popular anyway. I had to support them, they, coupled with iTunes, we're horrible. People just learn to use them and eventually one quirky way of doing things becomes 'the norm.'
The 'Linux Desktop' is just as solid as Windows... depending on what you do with it. Just as Windows could be horrible compared to Linux... depending on what you're doing with it
The 'Linux Desktop' is just as solid as Windows... depending on what you do with it. Just as Windows could be horrible compared to Linux... depending on what you're doing with it
Network effect, relative difficulty of switching an OS and familiarity . It even heavily effects OSX, which has the marketshare it has due to its platform integration, more than anything.
It is not a fair competition.
It is not a fair competition.
Oh come on, I had the most basic request of Windows: keep the laptop on while it's connected to a screen and power and I close the screen. It failed.
Seriously, how is that not working out of the box in 2022? Even macs get this right.
And that's not even getting into the install process and driver downloads, printer configuration, setting up containers, a proper posix shell out of the box, local accounts, and on and on.
Windows is basically good for running Steam and has many more OEM supported hardware options. What other advantages does it even have?
Seriously, how is that not working out of the box in 2022? Even macs get this right.
And that's not even getting into the install process and driver downloads, printer configuration, setting up containers, a proper posix shell out of the box, local accounts, and on and on.
Windows is basically good for running Steam and has many more OEM supported hardware options. What other advantages does it even have?
I agree and disagree. The driver issue is frustrating, but I think this is mostly a choice of hardware issue. If you can get a wifi chip with officially supported drivers it’s pretty painless. Broadcom, in my experience have consistently been the most painful.
There are ui configuration options, but the last I tried them (long ago) they felt inconsistent and painful. It quickly became clear that you needed a terminal to solve most issues, and when you didn’t start that way, you’re now faced with both an uncomfortable environment, and a problem to solve. So I opted to get used to the terminal, and I totally fell in love with it.
For my (not experienced) level of use, I find that it’s just several different systems. Once you know the name of the system, you can read it’s docs, find it’s configs, etc. I think one of the reasons for the recent popularity of arch is that you are given the choice of, and are made familiar with several of these systems to build your install. Maybe you’re using netctl, dhcpcd, or networkmanager - but you made that choice, and probably the initial configuration.
I don’t like the control panel, and the registry is difficult to navigate. Suffering through deeply nested menus to find a setting is a horrible experience for me. I’d much prefer grepping a directory of files for keywords. I have more tools at my disposal. Plus then I can version control and automatically provision a new machine instead of a hunt through ever-changing uis. You’re right that the original configuration takes some extra research and time, but I find for my own setups that the automated setup is worth the investment.
This is all very subjective —- I certainly don’t think you’re wrong, but I wanted to share some perspective on how it can be used (in the off chance you weren’t aware) - i hope it might make it more friendly the next time you cross paths :).
There are ui configuration options, but the last I tried them (long ago) they felt inconsistent and painful. It quickly became clear that you needed a terminal to solve most issues, and when you didn’t start that way, you’re now faced with both an uncomfortable environment, and a problem to solve. So I opted to get used to the terminal, and I totally fell in love with it.
For my (not experienced) level of use, I find that it’s just several different systems. Once you know the name of the system, you can read it’s docs, find it’s configs, etc. I think one of the reasons for the recent popularity of arch is that you are given the choice of, and are made familiar with several of these systems to build your install. Maybe you’re using netctl, dhcpcd, or networkmanager - but you made that choice, and probably the initial configuration.
I don’t like the control panel, and the registry is difficult to navigate. Suffering through deeply nested menus to find a setting is a horrible experience for me. I’d much prefer grepping a directory of files for keywords. I have more tools at my disposal. Plus then I can version control and automatically provision a new machine instead of a hunt through ever-changing uis. You’re right that the original configuration takes some extra research and time, but I find for my own setups that the automated setup is worth the investment.
This is all very subjective —- I certainly don’t think you’re wrong, but I wanted to share some perspective on how it can be used (in the off chance you weren’t aware) - i hope it might make it more friendly the next time you cross paths :).
> I’d much prefer grepping a directory of files for keywords
Do you think it's right way in general? If yes, please join my imaginary experiment case:
* you are part of Corporate IT support team
* your company is let's say Korean speaking and your OS interface (locale) is Korean as well
* you have phone call for support request on for something simple like changing desktop background or changing laptop sleep interval be not 5 minutes but 15
I can imagine in say Windows 11, someone press "win", type "battery" in local language and finds the needed setting, but how someone would "grep" for something in non-native language - I'm not sure.
----
I can imagine more examples, say - what is the way to ask for remote assistance or MDM or disk encryption rollout by CorpIT or wiping data in case of loss or... which would demonstrate to me - it's not ready for broader audience beyond 5% of deviation of population (nerds). And your grepping example, to me, says - such use cases are not even considered when someone says "linux is ready for desktop".
Do you think it's right way in general? If yes, please join my imaginary experiment case:
* you are part of Corporate IT support team
* your company is let's say Korean speaking and your OS interface (locale) is Korean as well
* you have phone call for support request on for something simple like changing desktop background or changing laptop sleep interval be not 5 minutes but 15
I can imagine in say Windows 11, someone press "win", type "battery" in local language and finds the needed setting, but how someone would "grep" for something in non-native language - I'm not sure.
----
I can imagine more examples, say - what is the way to ask for remote assistance or MDM or disk encryption rollout by CorpIT or wiping data in case of loss or... which would demonstrate to me - it's not ready for broader audience beyond 5% of deviation of population (nerds). And your grepping example, to me, says - such use cases are not even considered when someone says "linux is ready for desktop".
Internationalization is a strong argument.
I don’t like it, but you might be right. I’d still prefer a layer of abstraction between config file keys/comments so your configuration can be localized, but there are additional issues here with user-vs-author comments which the UI solution wouldn’t need to consider.
Of course you are correct, I couldn’t imagine teaching grep to my grandpa, most relatives, or even all coworkers. It shouldn’t be necessary, but it would be lovely if this was always an option. I’d much prefer having control, than an opaque system that migrates my settings forwards. Maybe I’m advocating for a system that supports both?
Thank you for posting, I never considered this, I need to think about it.
I don’t like it, but you might be right. I’d still prefer a layer of abstraction between config file keys/comments so your configuration can be localized, but there are additional issues here with user-vs-author comments which the UI solution wouldn’t need to consider.
Of course you are correct, I couldn’t imagine teaching grep to my grandpa, most relatives, or even all coworkers. It shouldn’t be necessary, but it would be lovely if this was always an option. I’d much prefer having control, than an opaque system that migrates my settings forwards. Maybe I’m advocating for a system that supports both?
Thank you for posting, I never considered this, I need to think about it.
I'm glad if it helped you to take a look from another angle.
Then probably this would be helpful too - try to imagine why the most popular Linux based user facing systems - Android and Chrome OS, are not any kind of "traditional" Linux desktop distribution alike. Does it says something on users?
What wonders me as well - when Linux desktops start to finally use telemetry and stop being blind on real user cases, not on the imaginary nerds needs. It will give great productivity boost. Microsoft has it and they know their auditorium. The techies who knows in person how logging is important on fixing bugs - has no such logs! Ridiculous to me.
Then probably this would be helpful too - try to imagine why the most popular Linux based user facing systems - Android and Chrome OS, are not any kind of "traditional" Linux desktop distribution alike. Does it says something on users?
What wonders me as well - when Linux desktops start to finally use telemetry and stop being blind on real user cases, not on the imaginary nerds needs. It will give great productivity boost. Microsoft has it and they know their auditorium. The techies who knows in person how logging is important on fixing bugs - has no such logs! Ridiculous to me.
Hell, if you happen to have a supported hardware, linux will give you the best, out-of-the-box experience with it (no “searching for a solution online” and whatever windows doing)
I don't disagree with the gist of your comment, but by that token, I don't remember Windows ever "just working" (especially not for games!), and neither does macOS...
(The example I always give is that my wireless HP LaserJet printer works automagically with Ubuntu, but always gives trouble with macOS!)
So... all desktops suck?
(The example I always give is that my wireless HP LaserJet printer works automagically with Ubuntu, but always gives trouble with macOS!)
So... all desktops suck?
> Every time I install Linux there is something that doesn't work
Please show me some software where it is not the case. Like, not being sarcastic, windows has million little cuts all around and my mac is the only modern hardware that managed to reboot on its own. I don’t think Linux is comparably worse, if we are being as unbiased as possible.
Sure, in certain compartments windows and osx can be better, but they all suck in others. For example, having multiple screens seems to be an insurmountable problem humanity is not yet ready to solve.
Please show me some software where it is not the case. Like, not being sarcastic, windows has million little cuts all around and my mac is the only modern hardware that managed to reboot on its own. I don’t think Linux is comparably worse, if we are being as unbiased as possible.
Sure, in certain compartments windows and osx can be better, but they all suck in others. For example, having multiple screens seems to be an insurmountable problem humanity is not yet ready to solve.
>And it's impossible to debug
At least it can be debugged. Good luck doing that on Windows. It isn't by chance that the most common advice is "format and install again."
>And on the rare occasions when you had a problem you would immediately know what part of the control panel or the registry to go to and fix it yourself.
I vastly prefer running few commands over going through a dozen of interfaces from multiple eras or worse going through the mess that registry is.
At least it can be debugged. Good luck doing that on Windows. It isn't by chance that the most common advice is "format and install again."
>And on the rare occasions when you had a problem you would immediately know what part of the control panel or the registry to go to and fix it yourself.
I vastly prefer running few commands over going through a dozen of interfaces from multiple eras or worse going through the mess that registry is.
For content creation, Linux is lost. No 10bit support, lack of professional tools like those from Adobe and overall philosophy "from nerds to nerds" is usually time consuming for regular users.
> For content creation, Linux is lost
Linux obviously isn't lost, given that I and many others use Linux for content creation.
It would help the discussion if people stopped talking in hyperbolic all-or-nothing extremes.
Like I said, this is a meme that needs to die.
Linux obviously isn't lost, given that I and many others use Linux for content creation.
It would help the discussion if people stopped talking in hyperbolic all-or-nothing extremes.
Like I said, this is a meme that needs to die.
What kind of content creation are you make? Where are those many? I would really like to know.
>No 10bit support
What does that mean?
What does that mean?
Probably 10-bit color. Important for photographers, since modern cameras have 10-bit color sensors. GIMP only supports the sRGB color space with 8-bit color, so it doesn't work properly with wide-gamut monitors.
Sometimes it is called HDR. 10bit is crucial for colour grading. Photography, cinematography, design...
10 bit per color channel instead of 8.
Yeah, should've been more specific. I know what 10-bit means, was asking for the "no support" bit.
Linux Desktop doesn't really suck anymore. Enough time passed that the experience of the high-level (ie. desktop) part of any distro is good enough*.
Worst part of Linux is the death by a thousand paper cuts. Bluetooth may work or not work. Apps may be compatible or not with Wayland. Power consumption may not be efficient. Computer may not resume from sleep. The browser may burn CPU when playing videos. Etc.etc.
Lots of stuff like this can happen, and I guess, anyone will experience one or two. I've been using Linux for a long time, and there is always something.
Everything can be fixed with patience (and experience, that one may not have), but Linux is definitely an O/S that needs some work, once one goes past a casual use. Casual users may not notice.
My favourite niggles: clipboard not being always shared, and file managers not sharing bookmarks data across them. These are definitely embarrassing.
Worst part of Linux is the death by a thousand paper cuts. Bluetooth may work or not work. Apps may be compatible or not with Wayland. Power consumption may not be efficient. Computer may not resume from sleep. The browser may burn CPU when playing videos. Etc.etc.
Lots of stuff like this can happen, and I guess, anyone will experience one or two. I've been using Linux for a long time, and there is always something.
Everything can be fixed with patience (and experience, that one may not have), but Linux is definitely an O/S that needs some work, once one goes past a casual use. Casual users may not notice.
My favourite niggles: clipboard not being always shared, and file managers not sharing bookmarks data across them. These are definitely embarrassing.
> "Worst part of Linux is the death by a thousand paper cuts."
Funny you should say this, because it's exactly that feeling that drove me away from Windows. For many years I tolerated Windows because "It's what everyone uses", but eventually there came a point where the "paper cuts" just added up to where I could no longer tolerate it. The annoyances and frustrations were bad enough that if I did not have Linux to fall back on, I would literally have given up computer work entirely.
Funny you should say this, because it's exactly that feeling that drove me away from Windows. For many years I tolerated Windows because "It's what everyone uses", but eventually there came a point where the "paper cuts" just added up to where I could no longer tolerate it. The annoyances and frustrations were bad enough that if I did not have Linux to fall back on, I would literally have given up computer work entirely.
This is my perspective too. Whenever I find myself having to use Windows (which these days is just for games with Windows-only anti-cheat), the annoyances feel so much more pronounced.
Hardware producers, inevitably, produce drivers for Windows first (and possibly, only). This of course doesn't guarantee quality drivers, but does guarantee drivers, which is better than no drivers at all, at least in the short/mid term.
I did have problems in the past due to recent Ryzen and ethernet drivers for example, and using last Linux kernels (or even compiling them) is something that can't be asked to the general public.
Fragmentation is also a very real problem, and it's inherent in Linux. I've discussed in another post about fragmentation of the GUI toolkit libraries problem, which has very visible consequences in daily usage.
I did have problems in the past due to recent Ryzen and ethernet drivers for example, and using last Linux kernels (or even compiling them) is something that can't be asked to the general public.
Fragmentation is also a very real problem, and it's inherent in Linux. I've discussed in another post about fragmentation of the GUI toolkit libraries problem, which has very visible consequences in daily usage.
especially funny is that an OS called "Windows" has a laughably crappy window manager. Having to move the mouse to the small titlebar to move a window? having to hit a corner or side very precisely to resize? You'd think no developer working on windows ever tried the damn thing.
You can do both of these operations using the Windows Key + Arrow Keys on the keyboard.
what does this do?
I have now seen what this does, but that is nothing compared to what nearly all window managers on Linux allows, next time you're at such an installation, try hold alt down, and press anywhere in a window with left mouse and move, or just somewhere remotely close to a corner and right click and move.
> Bluetooth may work or not work
In my 4yrs+ of using Linux, this has never been a problem for me.
> Apps may be compatible or not with Wayland
App developer's fault. Besides xwayland bridges that gap.
> Power consumption may not be efficient
Use Wayland for GUI apps. Use more cli applications.
> Computer may not resume from sleep
This one I have to concede. It's been wonky but for me now seems reliably stable with my setup.
> The browser may burn CPU when playing videos
This one has been fixed recently. Chromium and Firefox already support hw video decode with Firefox set to make it the default configuration in FF 103.
> clipboard not being always shared
I don't know what your setup is but gnome's gpaste clipboard experience is 100x better than any OS I've used before.
> file managers not sharing bookmarks data across them
Have never come across this use case. Why would you expect this to be a feature? Even Windows doesn't support this feature when you swap file managers.
In my 4yrs+ of using Linux, this has never been a problem for me.
> Apps may be compatible or not with Wayland
App developer's fault. Besides xwayland bridges that gap.
> Power consumption may not be efficient
Use Wayland for GUI apps. Use more cli applications.
> Computer may not resume from sleep
This one I have to concede. It's been wonky but for me now seems reliably stable with my setup.
> The browser may burn CPU when playing videos
This one has been fixed recently. Chromium and Firefox already support hw video decode with Firefox set to make it the default configuration in FF 103.
> clipboard not being always shared
I don't know what your setup is but gnome's gpaste clipboard experience is 100x better than any OS I've used before.
> file managers not sharing bookmarks data across them
Have never come across this use case. Why would you expect this to be a feature? Even Windows doesn't support this feature when you swap file managers.
>Use Wayland for GUI apps. Use more cli applications.
How about "the OS display server, composer and GUI and should be well interested in the OS and perfectly usable out fo the box for all use cases".
My free time is precious and I don't want to play sysadmin on my home computer with Wayland and X11.
Windows and MacOS have their display servers figured out for decades, so the user doesn't have to think about what a display server is, while Linux is still juggling 2 different ones both with their pros and cons depending on your apps and hardware, one or the other might or or it might not.
I work in cybersecurity so everyone in the company is fluent in Linux which we use on a daily basis in various flavors both CLI and a few DEs, yet nearly all of use either Windows or Mac or both at home. Have a guess why that is.
How about "the OS display server, composer and GUI and should be well interested in the OS and perfectly usable out fo the box for all use cases".
My free time is precious and I don't want to play sysadmin on my home computer with Wayland and X11.
Windows and MacOS have their display servers figured out for decades, so the user doesn't have to think about what a display server is, while Linux is still juggling 2 different ones both with their pros and cons depending on your apps and hardware, one or the other might or or it might not.
I work in cybersecurity so everyone in the company is fluent in Linux which we use on a daily basis in various flavors both CLI and a few DEs, yet nearly all of use either Windows or Mac or both at home. Have a guess why that is.
I suspect your colleagues prefer Windows & Mac over Linux not because of Wayland incompatibility but rather because the software selection is better covered over there. E.g gaming software generally targets Windows OS.
It is no secret that Linux software has historically not been targeted at the masses. Add to that, developers who are not interested in publishing software on Linux platforms. You can see why the overall experience might not be that great on desktop Linux compared to Windows or Mac. Even though this might be changing as more users feel comfortable with Linux.
IMO iOS, Windows, Linux all have their strengths and flaws; it would be wrong to compare them side-by-side.
It is no secret that Linux software has historically not been targeted at the masses. Add to that, developers who are not interested in publishing software on Linux platforms. You can see why the overall experience might not be that great on desktop Linux compared to Windows or Mac. Even though this might be changing as more users feel comfortable with Linux.
IMO iOS, Windows, Linux all have their strengths and flaws; it would be wrong to compare them side-by-side.
This is a very uninformed opinion of how Linux works. I'll post a few random notions, because there's a bit too much to talk about.
Linux has, because of legacy reasons, a more complex than required clipboard concept. Because of this, different apps may use it in different ways, and have unexpected behaviors. Some applications (I think, but not sure, Libreoffice) may lose the clipboard content when closed. The very fact that one needs clipboard managers to workaround the base clipboard behavior is proof that Linux's clipboard implementation is not working (from a user perspective). And beware that clipboard managers may have unintended security issues (I'm positive some do), ie. storing user data on disk (copying confidential information to the clipboard is inevitable, and you do the maths).
Bluetooth has been historically broken. Bluez has been poorly implementend and documented. Here's an old post: http://www.bennybottema.com/2010/08/08/how-ubuntus-broken-bl...; it's old, but the situation has been bad for a very long time. As of Jul/2022, at least some (potentially all) Ubuntu distros ship with a broken pulseaudio/bluetooth configuration by default; a bug has been opened for a couple of years, and has been ignored by Canonical.
File managers depend on the graphic toolkits used. Applications that use different toolkits will display different file managers, and for example, they won't share bookmarks. This means that you open an application and bookmark a directory, then other applications, and the bookmark is not displayed.
> Use Wayland for GUI apps. Use more cli applications.
Telling the user to change applications because of problems of the operating system is nonsensical.
Linux has, because of legacy reasons, a more complex than required clipboard concept. Because of this, different apps may use it in different ways, and have unexpected behaviors. Some applications (I think, but not sure, Libreoffice) may lose the clipboard content when closed. The very fact that one needs clipboard managers to workaround the base clipboard behavior is proof that Linux's clipboard implementation is not working (from a user perspective). And beware that clipboard managers may have unintended security issues (I'm positive some do), ie. storing user data on disk (copying confidential information to the clipboard is inevitable, and you do the maths).
Bluetooth has been historically broken. Bluez has been poorly implementend and documented. Here's an old post: http://www.bennybottema.com/2010/08/08/how-ubuntus-broken-bl...; it's old, but the situation has been bad for a very long time. As of Jul/2022, at least some (potentially all) Ubuntu distros ship with a broken pulseaudio/bluetooth configuration by default; a bug has been opened for a couple of years, and has been ignored by Canonical.
File managers depend on the graphic toolkits used. Applications that use different toolkits will display different file managers, and for example, they won't share bookmarks. This means that you open an application and bookmark a directory, then other applications, and the bookmark is not displayed.
> Use Wayland for GUI apps. Use more cli applications.
Telling the user to change applications because of problems of the operating system is nonsensical.
Everything I shared is from my own personal experience with using desktop Linux. Obviously your experience is going to be different from mine, as that depends on what software we use and what distro we pick.
That said. Bluetooth works as expected on my hardware. Clipboard sharing works as well, there was a time it was missing on gnome terminal but can't say am scratching my head about that one today.
Can't say I've see folder bookmarking across different file managers, even on Windows. You have to point me to examples here.
Telling a user how to reasonably fix a problem trump's whatever misconceptions you have about desktop Linux. They can always put Linux down and use whatever operating system works best for them, if they don't want to try alternative solutions.
That said. Bluetooth works as expected on my hardware. Clipboard sharing works as well, there was a time it was missing on gnome terminal but can't say am scratching my head about that one today.
Can't say I've see folder bookmarking across different file managers, even on Windows. You have to point me to examples here.
Telling a user how to reasonably fix a problem trump's whatever misconceptions you have about desktop Linux. They can always put Linux down and use whatever operating system works best for them, if they don't want to try alternative solutions.
> Bluetooth may work or not work. Apps may be compatible or not with Wayland. Power consumption may not be efficient. Computer may not resume from sleep. The browser may burn CPU when playing videos.
Haven't touched Linux desktop for 10+years but funny it's still like this?
Is there any certified hardware that actually has stable Linux desktop experiences?
Haven't touched Linux desktop for 10+years but funny it's still like this?
Is there any certified hardware that actually has stable Linux desktop experiences?
There are some ubuntu-certified laptops, but I have very little problem with Thinkpads (T480 for personal use).
I am not looking forward to wayland upgrade time. At the moment it's fine, and I'm sure it will all be figured out eventually, but the transition will be a hassle and I have my doubts about whether some features will make it or not.
I am using Ubuntu as my main Desktop for the last 15 months and am much happier with it than 15+ years on the Mac.
Virtual Desktops is really powerful to structure different workflows. Office can be covered entirely though online solutions.
Yes, Gaming doesn't fly. But that also holds true for a Mac. Just get a PS5.
Virtual Desktops is really powerful to structure different workflows. Office can be covered entirely though online solutions.
Yes, Gaming doesn't fly. But that also holds true for a Mac. Just get a PS5.
I bounced around distros and ended up going back to Pop-OS. It's been the one that is the most stable and has all of the general features that I want in a daily driver. I don't want to have to mess around with my host and would rather spin up VMs for things that I'd want to tinker with.
> Yes, Gaming doesn't fly
How? Most games work and they work great.
How? Most games work and they work great.
Could you expand what you mean here?
If I open the Ubuntu App store there are some games, most are casual.
Xonotic is one game that I tried and found impressive, but I am not much into FPS.
Steam has Dota and Civ, but the selection is quite small compared to Windows.
Basically everything for Windows runs on Linux now. Some things have anticheat issues, but even there things are getting better. The only thing I've had trouble to get running is Zoo Tycoon 2, a game from 2004
Which is funny, because old games often run better under Linux than under new Windows versions. The WineHQ page for the game does not have many entries sadly, https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=applicatio....
they are all in the protondb
You should double check what is available via Steam on Linux. https://www.protondb.com/
High-quality native-to-Linux games are few and far between. Valve is doing amazing work with Proton, though, and many games are just as performant as they are on Windows. Some are even more performant than on Windows (though that's not super common).
This really isnt true anymore. Steam, proton, and the recent improvements in anticipation of the steam deck have really changed gaming on linux.
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Also a Ubuntu user here, and it has been my daily driver for the last 10 years.
I ditched the M$ gaming partition in '19 and moved completely into Linux. Apart from occasional issues, it just works.
I ditched the M$ gaming partition in '19 and moved completely into Linux. Apart from occasional issues, it just works.
> I am using Ubuntu as my main Desktop for the last 15 months and am much happier with it than 15+ years on the Mac
But the million dollar question is, which desktop environment are you using?
But the million dollar question is, which desktop environment are you using?
I think it's Gnome. Haven't changed anything from the default install.
And I think that further underlines my point. I installed it, liked it, and for me it works perfectly.
Linux desktop sucks, in absolute terms. Relatively, not. Windows desktop sucks. Mac desktop sucks. Chromebook sucks. Android sucks. Ipad sucks. Ios sucks.
Our standards are just really, really low.
Our standards are just really, really low.
PC desktops indeed suck, but I have much less problem with mobile OSs. Not sure whether it is due to the more modern OS, the reduced problem domain or the higher level OS-program interface.
You obviously haven't used a recent Windows or Linux machine. Unless you need accessibility features GNOME is waaay better than Windows 11 in basically every way and I find GNOME unusable without a bunch of extensions. The current Windows 11 desktop is a catastrophe way worse than linux desktops
I have been using Ubuntu on a new Dell work laptop for the past 6 weeks and have been pleasantly surprised. Everything basically works. My only complaint is that the machine fails to wake from closed lid sleep at least once per week. So my M1 Pro is by far my uptime champ for laptops (I sometimes go 30-40 days between reboots and it never crashes).
Anecdotal experience, my intel MacBook Pro also fails to wake up from closed lid from time to time..
Yes, my wife’s Intel MacBook Pro does this. They are junk, especially when running Catalina. My theory is that the Intel models with T1/T2 controllers reached a point where they were too complex and difficult to keep stable.
> Linux desktop experience does suck
Not for me. Blackbox on X11 is exactly what I need and want. Apps looking the same is not something I care about.
> Redhat has the same issue, killing off centos community releases for a streamed os platform. (Same as Suse)
What is this about Suse? I'm on openSUSE (Suse's community release) right now. 15.4 was just released.
Not for me. Blackbox on X11 is exactly what I need and want. Apps looking the same is not something I care about.
> Redhat has the same issue, killing off centos community releases for a streamed os platform. (Same as Suse)
What is this about Suse? I'm on openSUSE (Suse's community release) right now. 15.4 was just released.
In 2010, I would point at the little issues with Linux and advise people to use Windows instead.
By now, Windows has gained so many issues that Linux is obviously superior.
Like you press the start key, the Windows menu only halfway opens, your keystrokes go to nowhere, and then you're stuck with a crashed bar at the bottom of your screen. Or like you put your Surface Pro to sleep, but it disobeys you and checks for emails while it's in your backpack and out of wifi range. So you arrive at your destination with a hot brick of empty battery. Or like you're on a live show and then your system reboots for an Update that you can't cancel plus you loose all unsaved data in the process.
By now, Windows has gained so many issues that Linux is obviously superior.
Like you press the start key, the Windows menu only halfway opens, your keystrokes go to nowhere, and then you're stuck with a crashed bar at the bottom of your screen. Or like you put your Surface Pro to sleep, but it disobeys you and checks for emails while it's in your backpack and out of wifi range. So you arrive at your destination with a hot brick of empty battery. Or like you're on a live show and then your system reboots for an Update that you can't cancel plus you loose all unsaved data in the process.
Linux desktop experience is amazing. I feel crippled when I have to use mac or windows.
(Though of course there is no universal desktop linux experience. That's kind of the point).
(Though of course there is no universal desktop linux experience. That's kind of the point).
>Pretty much, Windows with WSL, and Android emulation, you can do anything.
Unfortunately, they haven't figured out hardware access in WSL2 so doing stuff with serial ports and the like is impossible or requires annoying workarounds like creating network tunnels and connecting them to a pts using socat. In WSL1 you did have access to Windows COM ports.
Unfortunately, they haven't figured out hardware access in WSL2 so doing stuff with serial ports and the like is impossible or requires annoying workarounds like creating network tunnels and connecting them to a pts using socat. In WSL1 you did have access to Windows COM ports.
If Windows was so bereft of design flaws why couldn't they provide a superior terminal experience without inventing WSL?
Because Powershell dev is opinionated -- necessarily so -- and to appeal to Linux devs you need a way to make a Linux command line available. I had mine built to run Arch Linux and Fish terminal. It worked pretty well, but compared to a raw Linux machine it is slow.
They did. PowerShell.
WSL is for the folks that buy macOS instead of supporting Linux OEMs, because they couldn't care less and are happy witb whatever POSIX CLI they can get.
WSL is for the folks that buy macOS instead of supporting Linux OEMs, because they couldn't care less and are happy witb whatever POSIX CLI they can get.
WSL is a godsend for Linux-inclined devs operating corporate laptops where Windows is mandated and filled with counterintrusion software up the wazoo.
I would never work for a company where I have to use a "corporate Windows" laptop. If management does not understand developer needs, working there is likely to be not pleasant in many aspects.
They understand the needs of Windows developers.
Even a Windows developer cannot use a typical locked-down enterprise PC. For many tasks you would need admin rights. I guess typically Windows developers solve in such company solve that by having 2 PCs. One official office PC and then one R&D PC which is not under control of corporate IT (depending on the company officially connected to non-intranet network zone or just completely secret form corporate IT).
Of course for really hairy driver work you want to have a separate machine regardless of the OS. But for the last 15 years I have managed to do Linux development with having root access and still not breaking the office side of work. Although if you usea dd to write system images for embedded systems many times a day you are playing a bit with fire. Thought for a long time I should patch dd so it wouldn't overwrite anything bigger than 64GB. But nowadays we mostly have better firmware update methods, so dd is used rarely and my patch still unwritten...
Of course for really hairy driver work you want to have a separate machine regardless of the OS. But for the last 15 years I have managed to do Linux development with having root access and still not breaking the office side of work. Although if you usea dd to write system images for embedded systems many times a day you are playing a bit with fire. Thought for a long time I should patch dd so it wouldn't overwrite anything bigger than 64GB. But nowadays we mostly have better firmware update methods, so dd is used rarely and my patch still unwritten...
Those corps also have Linux versions of the same software.
Windows terminal is amazing, you can have a tabbed terminal with powershell, powershell 7, linux flavors, shell replacements, cygwin, cloud provider connections and much more.
In windows terminal, I use powershell for vmware vsphere administration and linux for ssh. The only main issue I have is ubuntu 22.04 gives ssh key errors with redhat servers. I have a redhat wsl for ssh ive been using.
I was a cygwin terminal user for decades. (work laptops are always locked down windows).
With linux in windows terminal, i've stopped using cygwin. I still sometimes use mobaterm (cygwin based), but even mobaterm allows tabbed environments like windows terminal. It even imports them. Also cygwin ssh works with redhat servers without ssh key issues.
In windows terminal, I use powershell for vmware vsphere administration and linux for ssh. The only main issue I have is ubuntu 22.04 gives ssh key errors with redhat servers. I have a redhat wsl for ssh ive been using.
I was a cygwin terminal user for decades. (work laptops are always locked down windows).
With linux in windows terminal, i've stopped using cygwin. I still sometimes use mobaterm (cygwin based), but even mobaterm allows tabbed environments like windows terminal. It even imports them. Also cygwin ssh works with redhat servers without ssh key issues.
How about docker support on Windows? Does it still require Hyper-V?
That’s one of the biggest hurdles preventing Windows to become a dev environment at my work.
That’s one of the biggest hurdles preventing Windows to become a dev environment at my work.
Any specific case on how Hyper-V is an issue with Docker support as you see it?
Assuming you are talking about Docker containers with Linux, not containers with Windows, it's pretty well integrated even with WSL2 (on some news I've checked, from mid 2019 https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/docker-deskto... ) which is Hyper-V based and doesn't stand in your way.
Assuming you are talking about Docker containers with Linux, not containers with Windows, it's pretty well integrated even with WSL2 (on some news I've checked, from mid 2019 https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/docker-deskto... ) which is Hyper-V based and doesn't stand in your way.
I haven't installed docker in vmware linux os, but you can set nested acceleration, so it should work fine.
I can get WSL2 to work in Win11 vm in vmware, so it should work fine.
I can get WSL2 to work in Win11 vm in vmware, so it should work fine.
@IronWolve: "Linux desktop experience does suck .."
Same ole same ole FUD .. it even does phones better than MICROS~1
PureOS – a pure Linux phone experience https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/pureos-mobile/
Same ole same ole FUD .. it even does phones better than MICROS~1
PureOS – a pure Linux phone experience https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/pureos-mobile/
> Desktop isn't unified (X11 or Wayland), libraries are not unified, the drivers/sound system isnt unified. Its basically a bunch of different flavors with issues that you are stuck with, locked in with.
Why would it be unified? It's mostly a bazaar of software written by different people to scratch their own itches.
> Redhat has the same issue, killing off centos community releases for a streamed os platform
CentOS Stream is no different than enabling the debian-updates repository in Debian. Your system won't suddenly just start pulling in breaking changes.
Why would it be unified? It's mostly a bazaar of software written by different people to scratch their own itches.
> Redhat has the same issue, killing off centos community releases for a streamed os platform
CentOS Stream is no different than enabling the debian-updates repository in Debian. Your system won't suddenly just start pulling in breaking changes.
The Linux desktop is great because it doesn't make me feel like a rat in a maze.
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.
> "Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven."
Ironically, that quote from Paradise Lost is spoken by the character Satan and is intended to deceive his fellow fallen angels into believing being condemned to Tartarus after losing their revolt isn't so bad, even though it is, quite literally, the depths of Hell.
On the other hand, considering the topic, maybe it's rather apropos instead.
Ironically, that quote from Paradise Lost is spoken by the character Satan and is intended to deceive his fellow fallen angels into believing being condemned to Tartarus after losing their revolt isn't so bad, even though it is, quite literally, the depths of Hell.
On the other hand, considering the topic, maybe it's rather apropos instead.
So what you're saying is, Linux sucks?
Someone has clearly never tried xmonad.
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From a Desktop perspective, Linux always has been, and, I suspect will remain, a ghetto.
Compared to what? Nothing is more ghetto than $MS Windows, randomly breaking with updates and going slow performance.
what you mean binary hell?
I haven’t listened to this podcast, but in my humble opinion, as a previously comfortable user of Ubuntu based distros, the whole snap fiasco is throwing a wrench in the stability of that whole corner of the linux distro-verse.
I really don’t want to use snaps because I’ve run into weird issues trying to use snaps of steam before, but it seems that you can’t even install mysql workbench on Ubuntu 22.04 variations and thats just driving me up a wall. I uninstalled the firefox snap as soon as I got Ubuntu Budgie working (I really dislike modern Gnome) and replaced it with native firefox, but now firefox won’t auto update. Budgie uses tilix by default and its too much of a pain to try and get a workflow going with tmux and vim. There’s a lot of these tiny issues, and while nvidia is finally making progress driverwise, I really want to be able to undervolt and overclock my ampere card, I am sadly on the verge of running windows for “poweruser” capabilities from my graphics card (and finally being able to control my rgb after openrgb disabled support for msi boards) and running Fedora in a virtual box for work purposes. Hopefully things come together support wise to go back to bare metal linux in the next year or so but for now its seems like I can only scratch my linux itch in a rather inelegant fashion :(
I really don’t want to use snaps because I’ve run into weird issues trying to use snaps of steam before, but it seems that you can’t even install mysql workbench on Ubuntu 22.04 variations and thats just driving me up a wall. I uninstalled the firefox snap as soon as I got Ubuntu Budgie working (I really dislike modern Gnome) and replaced it with native firefox, but now firefox won’t auto update. Budgie uses tilix by default and its too much of a pain to try and get a workflow going with tmux and vim. There’s a lot of these tiny issues, and while nvidia is finally making progress driverwise, I really want to be able to undervolt and overclock my ampere card, I am sadly on the verge of running windows for “poweruser” capabilities from my graphics card (and finally being able to control my rgb after openrgb disabled support for msi boards) and running Fedora in a virtual box for work purposes. Hopefully things come together support wise to go back to bare metal linux in the next year or so but for now its seems like I can only scratch my linux itch in a rather inelegant fashion :(
Switch to Debian or Linux Mint.
I've run linux on a Sparcstation 10, a Pentium Pro 200MHz, tiny ARM OpenWRT systems, and two top-500 super computer clusters. I've run it on my 2008 Macbook Pro and my Raspberry Pi. Even my stupid Android phone runs linux. My tablet is linux. My thermostat is linux.
I've been using linux for over 20 years now and can confirm that linux sucks.
Hopefully my casket will run linux so I can bitch about it when I'm dead.
I've been using linux for over 20 years now and can confirm that linux sucks.
Hopefully my casket will run linux so I can bitch about it when I'm dead.
I love my Linux desktop. More than 10 years I exclusively work on i3. Wouldn't change it for anything.
Now also USB audio just works
Now also USB audio just works
I was using USB Audio, Altec sound system since, 1999/Windows 98. On some Linux I had by that time, as I tried, kudzu decided it's USB printer and suggested to print test page - I've refrained. Kept doing USB audio tests from time to time, and around 2008 something finally worked (had some issues with Firefox AFAIR, but other player was able to produce sound).
I have been driving bspwm for the last 4 years, and indeed audio has improved with pipewire.
Pretty weak compared to his earlier Linux Sucks videos. Seems to be more about the ecosystem and community than Linux itself. Maybe Linux has become so indistinguishable from Windows/Mac that there's nothing broken or silly left to poke fun at?
Is it helpful to point out the same issues that have already been pointed out and discussed many times before yet again? No.
Is it helpful to have this come from someone who is a reactionary fascist like Lunduke? No.
Is it helpful to have this come from someone who is a reactionary fascist like Lunduke? No.
I'd rather hear it from Lunduke than from anyone someone who smears people as "reactionary fascists" endorses
I recommend you to look at Lunduke's twitter (@thelunduke)… "Facist" depends on the definition of Facism you go by, but deeply conservative (which many non-conservative people call "reactionary")? Definitely.
You and OP know very well that Lunduke isn't a fascist by any sensible definition of the word.
OP didn't say conservative for obvious reasons, because there's nothing wrong with being conservative. (And completely unsurprising given the destruction that activist hooligans created in Portland).
It was purely designed to mislead and deceive.
We're all so sick of it.
Stop lying and tell the truth.
OP didn't say conservative for obvious reasons, because there's nothing wrong with being conservative. (And completely unsurprising given the destruction that activist hooligans created in Portland).
It was purely designed to mislead and deceive.
We're all so sick of it.
Stop lying and tell the truth.
Actually I don’t agree with calling him a fascist - I could have made that more clear.
That said, with Lunduke being one of the people that are unable to respect women's rights enough, and thus keep calling all abortions murder, I just can’t enjoy/watch his content any more. That viewpoint is just too reactionary for me. That’s my truth.
(Regard Portland: No idea what’s going on there; I am European and have never been to the US West Coast.)
That said, with Lunduke being one of the people that are unable to respect women's rights enough, and thus keep calling all abortions murder, I just can’t enjoy/watch his content any more. That viewpoint is just too reactionary for me. That’s my truth.
(Regard Portland: No idea what’s going on there; I am European and have never been to the US West Coast.)
The CHAZ happened in Portland - Lunduke's home city. The riots and looting. The "summer of love". Look it up. They vandalised his synagogue.
In regard to womens rights, viable unborn woman have the right not to be killed in the womb- which includes the vast majority of abortions currently being performed.
This is the correct moral position to take, and has nothing to do with fascism.
In regard to womens rights, viable unborn woman have the right not to be killed in the womb- which includes the vast majority of abortions currently being performed.
This is the correct moral position to take, and has nothing to do with fascism.
CHAZ happened in Seattle.
The riots and looting were overblown. It was a level that Portland sees every year at mayday. I know. I was there. Welcome to big cities where things sometimes get out of hand. This occasionally happens everywhere across the globe.
The riots and looting were overblown. It was a level that Portland sees every year at mayday. I know. I was there. Welcome to big cities where things sometimes get out of hand. This occasionally happens everywhere across the globe.
> In regard to womens rights, viable unborn woman have the right not to be killed in the womb- which includes the vast majority of abortions currently being performed.
So it’s mostly female fetus that are being aborted? That sounds awfully sexist.
> This is the correct moral position to take, and has nothing to do with fascism.
Surprising that you think so. /s
I don’t think it will help anyone to continue this argument, so let’s just agree to disagree.
BTW: Vandalizing synagogues (or other religious places) is not okay/never okay - so maybe there’s something we actually agree on.
So it’s mostly female fetus that are being aborted? That sounds awfully sexist.
> This is the correct moral position to take, and has nothing to do with fascism.
Surprising that you think so. /s
I don’t think it will help anyone to continue this argument, so let’s just agree to disagree.
BTW: Vandalizing synagogues (or other religious places) is not okay/never okay - so maybe there’s something we actually agree on.
If you're concerned about Portland you should be talking about the homeless situation, as the "activist hooligan" trope is out of touch and insincere.
Can someone explain what this is? Hard to dive into a recording if I have no context and no idea if it’s relevant to me.
Bryan Lunduke (former community manager from OpenSuSE) does a "Linux Sucks" Video every year where he (sarcasticly) points out all the failings of Linux on the Desktop.
50% painful.
50% fun.
50% painful.
50% fun.
He's always very right in his criticism. He points out all the legit ways in which Linux sucks.
Each year I think to myself "yeah, it's terrible", but then realise there's nothing better anyway. It sucks like we all do.
Each year I think to myself "yeah, it's terrible", but then realise there's nothing better anyway. It sucks like we all do.
"Linux is the worst form of OS, except for all the others" - Winston Churchill 1947, probably.
If I have to say 'just use Linux' to someone the inevitable response is always Which one? Ubuntu?, Fedora?, SUSE?, Arch?, Red Hat?, Void?, Slackware?, etc, etc, etc.
Even if you have to choose a distro; that is the first problem and the fundamental problem of why the Linux Desktop has been a total failure in general and that is evergreen. ChromeOS is the only Linux-based OS that not only learns from Windows, and macOS but it is also a mostly closed-system and defeats the whole point of using Linux and open-source software.
But it seems that even Google recognises that the Linux Desktop has shown its incompetencies in ChromeOS and will replace it with Fuchsia OS; their own developed OS, both being a mostly closed-source software in there and does not using Linux.
So my response to anyone about Linux distros would be, 'Don't bother to choose, as you are not missing anything and you might as well use Windows, or macOS'
Even if you have to choose a distro; that is the first problem and the fundamental problem of why the Linux Desktop has been a total failure in general and that is evergreen. ChromeOS is the only Linux-based OS that not only learns from Windows, and macOS but it is also a mostly closed-system and defeats the whole point of using Linux and open-source software.
But it seems that even Google recognises that the Linux Desktop has shown its incompetencies in ChromeOS and will replace it with Fuchsia OS; their own developed OS, both being a mostly closed-source software in there and does not using Linux.
So my response to anyone about Linux distros would be, 'Don't bother to choose, as you are not missing anything and you might as well use Windows, or macOS'
Speaking from my experience, Windows never broke for me after updates. Install, reboot, done. I have actively used windows from XP to 10 with similar results.
Linux, on the other hand, is a mess. Arch was mostly fine, I had to update an occasional config file after an update, but I had to update everything pretty often - once a month at least. At some point I stopped using my laptop with Arch on it for a while. A year passed, I needed to take a look at the old projects I had on that laptop. I booted it up, got my code, and out of curiosity decided to do a full system update. After reboot nothing, literally nothing worked - I could not log in to Gnome because apparently I was on Wayland now, I had no wifi or bluetooth, Firefox was rendering artifacts.
I understand that Arch is an enthusiast distro, and that it was essentially my fault, but after this experience I have decided to stop using Linux on desktop and switched to Windows and Mac. A much better experience so far.
Linux, on the other hand, is a mess. Arch was mostly fine, I had to update an occasional config file after an update, but I had to update everything pretty often - once a month at least. At some point I stopped using my laptop with Arch on it for a while. A year passed, I needed to take a look at the old projects I had on that laptop. I booted it up, got my code, and out of curiosity decided to do a full system update. After reboot nothing, literally nothing worked - I could not log in to Gnome because apparently I was on Wayland now, I had no wifi or bluetooth, Firefox was rendering artifacts.
I understand that Arch is an enthusiast distro, and that it was essentially my fault, but after this experience I have decided to stop using Linux on desktop and switched to Windows and Mac. A much better experience so far.
Linux on the desktop is freaking awesome now. I wouldn’t have it any other way. It took me a few hours to get Arch the way I want it (with KDE) and everything just works now.
Only a few hours? I don’t know how many hours I’ve poured into tweaking.
You‘re right, it’s probably days for me, every time i take a look at r/unixporn i want to change my setup to a new colorscheme.
just a statistics I've gathered over openspace where I was working ~ 10 years ago - 50% or even more Windows desktops (not laptops by that time) had the same screensaver and default background which gave me a huge insight on how much customizations people really need, even for probably easiest configuration change.
For myself I count this way - 5% of population is a deviation for any given aspect - so far I think it predicts things very close.
For myself I count this way - 5% of population is a deviation for any given aspect - so far I think it predicts things very close.
> $177M in revenue for Linux Foundation (2021)
> Linux Kernel Support: 3.4%
I suppose this is not entirely accurate, since this was a forecast, and this isn't really news, apparently, but this is news to me. And I find it quite telling. I mean, obviously it must have been this way, how else could it be!
> Linux Kernel Support: 3.4%
I suppose this is not entirely accurate, since this was a forecast, and this isn't really news, apparently, but this is news to me. And I find it quite telling. I mean, obviously it must have been this way, how else could it be!
At 40:00 he says Linux desktop effects are back (e.g. Compiz). Anyone have more details?
As a KDE user, I'd say they never left.
Wayfire has you covered: https://github.com/WayfireWM/wayfire
there is a wobbly windows extension for gnome for example. and it's even a bit more realistic than the one for compiz was.
Compiz was never gone
Chisels suck, so do hammers. Chain saws? They suck. Don't even get me started on axes. All of these have in common that they have a learning curve during which they may just give you a blue nail, cut finger, shredded boots - you did wear those chainsaw-proof boots when you learned to handle the thing I hope - and more. Once you get to know these tools they allow you to do things which those shiny, gaudily coloured plasticky tools from the D.I.Y. store will never be able to achieve so it is worth the investment in time, band-aids and the occasional curse.
games cannot be clean ELF64 binaries which libdl everything from the system: GNU symbol versioning frenzy of glibc devs, and the static libstdc++ has no libdl "mode" and I would not hold my breath at gcc devs fixing that.
I like the common theme that GitHub needs to be open source. Time to open up GitHub.
It already is.
https://sr.ht/~sircmpwn/sourcehut/
https://sr.ht/~sircmpwn/sourcehut/
Gitea is a good and lightweight replacement for github
Yes, Linux sucks, there are many issues, but things are improving in tremendous rate. Just look at gaming on Linux, especially the fact that half of games with anti-cheat can be played without any workarounds or VM.
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if a setup that is a:
- terminal
- browser
- window manager
sounds awful, avoid desktop linux. you will find it to suck, even on a fancy distro like pop.
otherwise, dual boot windows and linux. work on linux, play on windows. this works great on most laptops and desktops.
keep a smart phone around if you don’t want to mess with bluetooth or audio on linux. it works fine, but smart phone is better in a lot of ways.
- terminal
- browser
- window manager
sounds awful, avoid desktop linux. you will find it to suck, even on a fancy distro like pop.
otherwise, dual boot windows and linux. work on linux, play on windows. this works great on most laptops and desktops.
keep a smart phone around if you don’t want to mess with bluetooth or audio on linux. it works fine, but smart phone is better in a lot of ways.
Any content creator or pro artist working on linux here?
Really sad to not see this on apple podcasts :(
people still care for a meme?
Is that video being financed by the MICROS~1 advertising department. From the title to the weird presentation, it's almost as if it was designed to drive people away. Linux OK for the geeks but not your average user /s
"ubuntu 3D Desktop" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QokOwvPxrE
Unreal Engine 4 Demos on Linux https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd90ZkCCgKY
"ubuntu 3D Desktop" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QokOwvPxrE
Unreal Engine 4 Demos on Linux https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd90ZkCCgKY
Presumably you did not watch the video, which spends a considerable amount of time shitting on Microsoft.
https://lunduke.substack.com/p/linus-torvalds-threatens-to-p...
“I really didn’t want to have to do this,” stated Torvalds. “But you all screw around too much. Nothing seems to get through to you. Maybe a little time with Rust will teach you a lesson.”