World War II frogmen who trained in secret off the California coast(atlasobscura.com)
atlasobscura.com
World War II frogmen who trained in secret off the California coast
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/world-war-2-frogmen-catalina
18 comments
A Korean-American served as an US Army officer in the Japanese-American units in WW2.
Young Oak Kim https://www.thenmusa.org/biographies/young-oak-kim/
Colonel 100th Infantry Battalion, 442d Regimental Combat Team, 31st Infantry Regiment
Young Oak Kim https://www.thenmusa.org/biographies/young-oak-kim/
Colonel 100th Infantry Battalion, 442d Regimental Combat Team, 31st Infantry Regiment
Cool! Thanks for sharing, I've never heard of Capt. Kim. Here is an excerpt from the link you shared:
> Upon Kim’s arrival in Mississippi, the commander offered him a transfer since “Koreans and Japanese don’t always get along,” due to Japan’s annexation of Korea between 1910 and 1945. But Kim refused to go anywhere. “You’re wrong,” he replied, “they’re Americans, I’m American, and we’re going to fight for America.” Their introduction, however, was not a smooth one. Kim thought the unit looked messy and disorganized. The men of the 100th Infantry didn’t think too much of Kim either; he was a mainlander, he was Korean, and he had not earned his commission at a service academy. Eventually, they bonded over their determination to succeed in combat. “We had to be as good as any other Caucasian outfit,“ Kim later recalled, “…and if we did it well, we’d get the credit.” To ensure his men would be ready once sent overseas, Kim taught them using aggressive tactics that simulated actual combat.
I'd love to know how these people put aside their differences and bonded, but even more interested in a Korean POWs training with Americans that were of Japanese ancestry.
From the original article:
> Its underwater demolition techniques, swim reconnaissance training, and other trailblazing methods were “the beginning vestiges of what would become the Navy SEALs,” says Council.
Just fascinating, I'd like to think these men were brave, but I'm positive they had no other choice and were first seen as the guinea pigs to the higher ups, and they were thinking let's get these Asians to do the crazy shit first and see if it works.
> Upon Kim’s arrival in Mississippi, the commander offered him a transfer since “Koreans and Japanese don’t always get along,” due to Japan’s annexation of Korea between 1910 and 1945. But Kim refused to go anywhere. “You’re wrong,” he replied, “they’re Americans, I’m American, and we’re going to fight for America.” Their introduction, however, was not a smooth one. Kim thought the unit looked messy and disorganized. The men of the 100th Infantry didn’t think too much of Kim either; he was a mainlander, he was Korean, and he had not earned his commission at a service academy. Eventually, they bonded over their determination to succeed in combat. “We had to be as good as any other Caucasian outfit,“ Kim later recalled, “…and if we did it well, we’d get the credit.” To ensure his men would be ready once sent overseas, Kim taught them using aggressive tactics that simulated actual combat.
I'd love to know how these people put aside their differences and bonded, but even more interested in a Korean POWs training with Americans that were of Japanese ancestry.
From the original article:
> Its underwater demolition techniques, swim reconnaissance training, and other trailblazing methods were “the beginning vestiges of what would become the Navy SEALs,” says Council.
Just fascinating, I'd like to think these men were brave, but I'm positive they had no other choice and were first seen as the guinea pigs to the higher ups, and they were thinking let's get these Asians to do the crazy shit first and see if it works.
Great comment until the imaginary narrative implanted at the end.
You're right, it's a bad take. It makes sense that they would train Asian people to fight in the Asian battlefields. White spies would stick out like a sore thumb.
And now the spiritual successors of the Frogmen, the Navy SeALs, begin their training in full view of tourists on Silver Strand Beach, California.
Tangent coming!
This reminded me of the book "Up Periscope", which I read as a kid, about a frogman during WWII using a sub to infiltrate a Japanese camp to photograph a code book.
I remember it talked about the then-new diving technology. I thought it was SCUBA. It was Aqua-Lung; verified with a checked out copy at https://archive.org/details/upperiscope00whit/page/150/mode/... .
Turns out that book is based on the movie. ('Garner called the film "another piece of crap that Warner Bros. stuck me in while I was under contract."' says Wikipedia.)
And Aqua-Lung wasn't available until after WWII. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua-Lung
Guess the book wasn't that accurate.
I enjoyed it when I was 12 or so.
This reminded me of the book "Up Periscope", which I read as a kid, about a frogman during WWII using a sub to infiltrate a Japanese camp to photograph a code book.
I remember it talked about the then-new diving technology. I thought it was SCUBA. It was Aqua-Lung; verified with a checked out copy at https://archive.org/details/upperiscope00whit/page/150/mode/... .
Turns out that book is based on the movie. ('Garner called the film "another piece of crap that Warner Bros. stuck me in while I was under contract."' says Wikipedia.)
And Aqua-Lung wasn't available until after WWII. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua-Lung
Guess the book wasn't that accurate.
I enjoyed it when I was 12 or so.
>> And Aqua-Lung wasn't available until after WWII.
Your on link says it was invented in winter 1942/43, WWII didn't end until September 45. That's plenty of time to train, equip, and utilize the technology in warfare. This article may not have been about Aquq-lung, but your book may have been accurate.
"The Aqua-Lung was invented in France during the winter of 1942–1943 by two Frenchmen: the engineer Émile Gagnan and the Naval Lieutenant Jacques Cousteau."
Your on link says it was invented in winter 1942/43, WWII didn't end until September 45. That's plenty of time to train, equip, and utilize the technology in warfare. This article may not have been about Aquq-lung, but your book may have been accurate.
"The Aqua-Lung was invented in France during the winter of 1942–1943 by two Frenchmen: the engineer Émile Gagnan and the Naval Lieutenant Jacques Cousteau."
My comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32080389 gives more details.
In short, it's therefore impossible for a US frogman in WWII to be using a term which wasn't coined until after the war ended.
The CG45 regulator wasn't patented until 1945. It was "commercialized in France as of 1946, [and] was the first to actually be called the "Aqua-Lung"."
Furthermore, the book starts a little under two years after Perl Harbor, i.e. 1943.
In short, it's therefore impossible for a US frogman in WWII to be using a term which wasn't coined until after the war ended.
The CG45 regulator wasn't patented until 1945. It was "commercialized in France as of 1946, [and] was the first to actually be called the "Aqua-Lung"."
Furthermore, the book starts a little under two years after Perl Harbor, i.e. 1943.
[deleted]
I thought aqualung was a weird word Jethro Tull came up with: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqualung_(album)
That was a fun book. I remember I picked it up at a yard sale when I was on vacation around the same age.
Thanks for the nostalgia. Too bad it wasn’t real.
Thanks for the nostalgia. Too bad it wasn’t real.
I'm curious what you mean when you say it was not SCUBA?
From your link:
"Aqua-Lung[1] was the first open-circuit, self-contained underwater breathing apparatus (or "scuba") to achieve worldwide popularity and commercial success"
Was there ever a brand called SCUBA? AquaLung still exists and is still a popular choice for diving regulators.
From your link:
"Aqua-Lung[1] was the first open-circuit, self-contained underwater breathing apparatus (or "scuba") to achieve worldwide popularity and commercial success"
Was there ever a brand called SCUBA? AquaLung still exists and is still a popular choice for diving regulators.
Tying two threads together.
This Atlas Obscura article mentions:
> the OSS commandos pioneered lightweight and compact rebreathers, such as the Lambertsen Amphibious Respiratory Unit (LARU)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambertsen_Amphibious_Respirat... says:
> The LARU is what the initials SCUBA (Self-Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus) originally meant; Lambertsen changed his invention's name to SCUBA in 1952;[2] but later "SCUBA", gradually changing to "scuba", came to mean (first in the USA) any self-contained underwater breathing apparatus.
Looks like the Navy wasn't interested in the LARU, while the OSS was.
"Up Periscope" refers to both a rebreather (presumably LARU) and the open-circuit Aqua-Lung, which you can see at https://archive.org/details/upperiscope00whit/page/150/mode/... :
> He liked the Aqua-Lung immediately. He found that it was much easier to control his depth than with the rebreather and there was no taste in the air he breathed.
In any case, the story takes place in 1943 ("Other ships were rusting, burned-out hulks as a result of the Japanese sneak attack on that Sunday morning almost two years ago."), while 'The Aqua-Lung was invented in France during the winter of 1942–1943' (Wikipedia).
The patent, in German-occupied France, was issued "some weeks later in 1943", so it's nominally possible that the idea could have made it to the US by the time the story takes place. However, Wikipedia adds that Cousteau coined the name Aqua-Lung to sell to English-speaking markets, which would mean post-D-day at the earliest, not 1943.
This Atlas Obscura article mentions:
> the OSS commandos pioneered lightweight and compact rebreathers, such as the Lambertsen Amphibious Respiratory Unit (LARU)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambertsen_Amphibious_Respirat... says:
> The LARU is what the initials SCUBA (Self-Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus) originally meant; Lambertsen changed his invention's name to SCUBA in 1952;[2] but later "SCUBA", gradually changing to "scuba", came to mean (first in the USA) any self-contained underwater breathing apparatus.
Looks like the Navy wasn't interested in the LARU, while the OSS was.
"Up Periscope" refers to both a rebreather (presumably LARU) and the open-circuit Aqua-Lung, which you can see at https://archive.org/details/upperiscope00whit/page/150/mode/... :
> He liked the Aqua-Lung immediately. He found that it was much easier to control his depth than with the rebreather and there was no taste in the air he breathed.
In any case, the story takes place in 1943 ("Other ships were rusting, burned-out hulks as a result of the Japanese sneak attack on that Sunday morning almost two years ago."), while 'The Aqua-Lung was invented in France during the winter of 1942–1943' (Wikipedia).
The patent, in German-occupied France, was issued "some weeks later in 1943", so it's nominally possible that the idea could have made it to the US by the time the story takes place. However, Wikipedia adds that Cousteau coined the name Aqua-Lung to sell to English-speaking markets, which would mean post-D-day at the earliest, not 1943.
Sorry for the confusion. I meant to say that I thought it used the word SCUBA (and I thought it used it in caps).
The other place where the frogmen/underwater demolition teams trained was Ft. Pierce, Florida
Their main focus was the D-Day Normandy invasion and, in fact the Florida beaches were used to practice for D-Day.
Their main focus was the D-Day Normandy invasion and, in fact the Florida beaches were used to practice for D-Day.
There's a bit about them in James D. Hornfischer's last book, The Fleet At Flood Tide, and the role they played in the western Pacific.
My great uncle was part of this; or so he claimed. He told me stories about training in California with the OSS for underwater demolition.
Interesting that they would mix Korean nationals and Japanese Americans together. I wonder what the group dynamic was like. It also reminds me of Silmido and Unit 684, except the S. Korean government cancelled the mission since North and South relations were improving, so the soldiers killed their trainers and committed mutiny.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_684