Austrian ISPs Block Cloudflare IP addresses after apparent court order(netzsperre.liwest.at)
netzsperre.liwest.at
Austrian ISPs Block Cloudflare IP addresses after apparent court order
http://netzsperre.liwest.at/
176 comments
Yandex is a pretty good search engine. Yandex is essentially what people think DuckDuckGo is, on the other hand DuckDuckGo is essentially is just Bing.
My impression was most use DuckDuckGo for privacy reasons so it's a bit surprising to read Yandex is supposed to be what people think DuckDuckGo is. Also DuckDuckGo sources from far more than just Bing and it does have its own crawler as well.
My understanding of Yandex was that it's just another user-information-is-primary-income search provider this time HQ'd in Russia, neither of which exactly appealing to the typical DDG crowd.
Though I'd throw Kagi out to anyone who puts a lot of weight on such things as being a more pure example than either.
My understanding of Yandex was that it's just another user-information-is-primary-income search provider this time HQ'd in Russia, neither of which exactly appealing to the typical DDG crowd.
Though I'd throw Kagi out to anyone who puts a lot of weight on such things as being a more pure example than either.
> Also DuckDuckGo sources from far more than just Bing and it does have its own crawler as well.
Do you have a source for this? I'd be interested in reading the technicals of merging search results from multiple sources.
Do you have a source for this? I'd be interested in reading the technicals of merging search results from multiple sources.
When I was looking into it I only found a few high level things like https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/results/so.... Nothing on how the sausage is made unfortunately. Same for Kagi which takes a similar layered approach (though anecdotally it seemed a bit more spread across backend sources).
>My understanding of Yandex was that it's just another user-information-is-primary-income search provider this time HQ'd in Russia, neither of which exactly appealing to the typical DDG crowd.
A Russian company having my data given the current state of relations between it and my government is less worrisome than Google having the same.
A Russian company having my data given the current state of relations between it and my government is less worrisome than Google having the same.
Your data is useless, no matter where it is. Data on the collective of American citizens, however, is not.
This response, though frequently used, is wrong. If my data is useless they wouldn’t collect it. They use this data to target ads specifically for me, increasing those ads value. So yes, individuals data is worth something.
That's not how ad targeting works. Your data is used in aggregate to target ads to your purported demographic, and that designation is usually obtained on-the-fly via your recent page visits. Storing your individual interests isn't worth the money it costs.
That said, this has nothing to do with ads. It's a matter of foreign intelligence.
That said, this has nothing to do with ads. It's a matter of foreign intelligence.
Yet, my ads become more valuable when they have data that I’m interested in a specific subject. Absent if that data, the ads are worth less.
For most things you can skip Yandex and go directly to the rutracker which would be the top result for most things anyway.
Yandex is great for politically sensitive content too. Yandex tends to give less manipulated results when compared to Western search-engines which are often censored and politically biased.
Yandex is also biased (in a different manner).
Can you give some examples of politically sensitive content that is manipulated or censored on western search engines compared to Russian?
Do any search for any US political content on Google. I (in Kansas City) get almost all Left-leaning to hard Left news sites as the first 10 results, while pre-Trump results I'd almost always get 2-3 lean/far-Right results in top 10.
Compare vs AllSides https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news
Compare vs AllSides https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news
is it possible that yandex is manipulated and it just fits your world view better?
Something I used Yandex for was research during the pandemic. Not sure if it's the same today but at one point it was humorously hard to find anything that suggested the COVID-19 vaccines were anything but 100% safe and effective on Google. This is especially true if it's video content because video sites which host vaccine sceptical content are heavily down ranked by Google - sites like Bitchute and Odysee. And obviously YouTube which ranks well in Google wasn't allowing that content at all - not sure if that's still the same today.
On politically sensitive content here's an example I've shown before of how a search for "Trump" might differ between Google and Yandex, https://imgur.com/oPXP0wh If searching for controversial figures or organisations you'll find Google tends to return news articles from left-wing media outlets where as Yandex tends to just return links associated to the individual / organisation. You can see this difference for yourself if you search for individuals like "Alex Jones".
Other notable examples would be extremely controversial content that Google / YouTube hides from results or removes completely. So for example if you want to find various alt-right / extremist content you basically need to use Yandex at this point. I'd rather not share specific examples of this, but as someone who's interested in online extremism if you want to view source materials you'll quickly find you need to use alternative search engines like Yandex to find this. There are also examples I'd consider extremist-adjacent like discussions around race and IQ or immigration policy which tends to be fairly one sided in Google. You will find some diversity of opinion but because Google downranks a lot of the more controversial sites the conversation is certainly biased towards what's political acceptable. I'm not necessarily criticising Google for this by the way, I'm just saying it's something that Google does and you should be aware of if you're ever searching for things considered politically incorrect.
I'm also aware of examples where Google searches tend to be more "diversified". This isn't something I've noticed or am that concerned with personally, but I'm aware of people who feel Google biases search results for things like "white families" to show more interracial families while Yandex doesn't. And I think there are examples where you can search for things like "famous scientists" and get more women scientists in the results than you might expect. From what I've seen I think this can be explained in good faith and isn't necessarily evidence of Google tampering with the results, but I've seen people (mostly in alt-right circles) share cherry-picked examples (in my opinion anyway) of stuff like this.
On politically sensitive content here's an example I've shown before of how a search for "Trump" might differ between Google and Yandex, https://imgur.com/oPXP0wh If searching for controversial figures or organisations you'll find Google tends to return news articles from left-wing media outlets where as Yandex tends to just return links associated to the individual / organisation. You can see this difference for yourself if you search for individuals like "Alex Jones".
Other notable examples would be extremely controversial content that Google / YouTube hides from results or removes completely. So for example if you want to find various alt-right / extremist content you basically need to use Yandex at this point. I'd rather not share specific examples of this, but as someone who's interested in online extremism if you want to view source materials you'll quickly find you need to use alternative search engines like Yandex to find this. There are also examples I'd consider extremist-adjacent like discussions around race and IQ or immigration policy which tends to be fairly one sided in Google. You will find some diversity of opinion but because Google downranks a lot of the more controversial sites the conversation is certainly biased towards what's political acceptable. I'm not necessarily criticising Google for this by the way, I'm just saying it's something that Google does and you should be aware of if you're ever searching for things considered politically incorrect.
I'm also aware of examples where Google searches tend to be more "diversified". This isn't something I've noticed or am that concerned with personally, but I'm aware of people who feel Google biases search results for things like "white families" to show more interracial families while Yandex doesn't. And I think there are examples where you can search for things like "famous scientists" and get more women scientists in the results than you might expect. From what I've seen I think this can be explained in good faith and isn't necessarily evidence of Google tampering with the results, but I've seen people (mostly in alt-right circles) share cherry-picked examples (in my opinion anyway) of stuff like this.
Please stop, you are letting the secret out. If too many people know yandex will start filtering the results.
This is an awesome pro tip. The results reminds me of the early 2010 google results.
Just google and use site:vk.ru
That yields no results and the hint „Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe.“ for me.
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Apparently a copyright holding company (“LSG - Wahrnehmung von Leistungsschutzrechten GesmbH”) managed to convince a court to block IP addresses. Something which in this form wasn’t done before.
However since those are Cloudflare addresses there is a ton of collateral damage.
However since those are Cloudflare addresses there is a ton of collateral damage.
Does the order force blocking of the IP bound to a DNS address? Could piracy sites change DNS A records to arbitrary IP addresses to deny service to other sites?
In the past the court hasn't specified how to block sites so they're usually blocked at dns level, just point the DNS record at one of the isp's ip addresses with a block message
If they really are having to block actual ips I would be surprised
If they really are having to block actual ips I would be surprised
I'd be somewhat surprised if a court ordered something vague like "block whatever IP that resolves to at any time in the future", they'll either say "block these IPs" or "stop resolving this domain", anything else would require constant monitoring and continuous involvement of the target of the order.
If the court orders to "block whatever IP this domain resolves into" then you can have much fun by pointing domain to government and bank websites.
Some people played this kind of game with Internet censorship in Russia.
Some people played this kind of game with Internet censorship in Russia.
But wait, isn't Cloudflare exactly offering that as a service?
Unclear. I was unable to find the court order so I’m not sure where it’s coming from.
Seems that they just wanted to block some piracy sites like newalbumreleases.net if you compare the dates and check the IPs behind those domains. Wonder however if this actually enforced because I think there is no IP block and no reports from Austria about collateral damage (or am I wrong and Austria cannot complain because they are cut of from the internet)
Edit: btw, the domains added with date August 29 are already blocked in Germany and some other EU countries for a while: https://onlinefilter.info/cuii-dns-sperre/newalbumreleasesne... .
Edit: btw, the domains added with date August 29 are already blocked in Germany and some other EU countries for a while: https://onlinefilter.info/cuii-dns-sperre/newalbumreleasesne... .
> I think there is no IP block and no reports from Austria about collateral damage
There is definitely a good amount of collateral damage, not all ISPs rolled out the block already, but some did.
I myself noticed a lot of sites stopped working or fail to load scripts/external resources. On reddit r/austria there are also multiple complaints.
Most normal users probably just suspect their router/pc acting up. It took me a day too to get to the gist of this issue with sites not loading without tor.
There is definitely a good amount of collateral damage, not all ISPs rolled out the block already, but some did.
I myself noticed a lot of sites stopped working or fail to load scripts/external resources. On reddit r/austria there are also multiple complaints.
Most normal users probably just suspect their router/pc acting up. It took me a day too to get to the gist of this issue with sites not loading without tor.
Wow. Interesting. It seems that they finally became aware of the issue and corrected the block list linked in the OP.
Only media backlash and a shitstorm actually was able to correct this and it is unclear if all providers fixed this. Everyone is now blaming high court decision, local government and the EU. Wonder if anything will change.
Here is the verified story :https://www.derstandard.de/story/2000138619757/ueberzogene-n...
Only media backlash and a shitstorm actually was able to correct this and it is unclear if all providers fixed this. Everyone is now blaming high court decision, local government and the EU. Wonder if anything will change.
Here is the verified story :https://www.derstandard.de/story/2000138619757/ueberzogene-n...
The strange thing is that this order is still not published (and has a date of tomorrow): https://www.rtr.at/TKP/aktuelles/entscheidungen/Uebersichtse...
auf Wiedersehen Österreich
Which is exactly what Cloudflare wants and has planned all along.
So what that Cloudflare hides behind the fact that it serves a large chunk of the internet?
It's a strategic fact that they use to their advantage, not their ultimate evil goal to make your life worse eventually.
I think we're quite spoiled with how much we benefit from their economy of scale.
It's a strategic fact that they use to their advantage, not their ultimate evil goal to make your life worse eventually.
I think we're quite spoiled with how much we benefit from their economy of scale.
Safe harbor provisions are for this exact scenario, we must depend on that not corp scale to maintain reasonable governing. Safe harbor has come under attack lately, unfairly so IMO.
The safe harbor has to do with moderation policy.
The historical purpose of safe harbor was to allow AOL to have a walled garden without become responsible for all the illegal content that snuck past.
IANAL, but DMCA safe harbor doesn’t really apply to a companies like CloudFlare, nor is it needed, because they are not moderating UGC on a publishing platform, they are a routing optimization utility.
The historical purpose of safe harbor was to allow AOL to have a walled garden without become responsible for all the illegal content that snuck past.
IANAL, but DMCA safe harbor doesn’t really apply to a companies like CloudFlare, nor is it needed, because they are not moderating UGC on a publishing platform, they are a routing optimization utility.
Not sure where you saw that the DMCA safe harbor provisions apply to moderation policy; It has everything to do with Copyright and removal of copyrighted material; nothing to do with moderation of UGC. It is directly in the name "Digital Millenium Copyright Act".
Content moderation is covered by the CDA section 230; completely separate from the DMCA
And it 100% should apply to Cloudflare as well; if they're caching copyrighted material they need to respond to takedown requests or lose that safe harbor protection. Just as it applies to Google for indexing alleged copyright material; if you've ever seen that "links removed due to DMCA takedown notices" in search results, even when they are not hosting said content.
IANAL also, and I don't know how much DMCA stuff is handled cross borders (I do believe some DMCA provisions are applicable thru trade treaties and the like, but not sure); and I do think DMCA takedowns are rife with abuse; but content moderation really has nothing to do with it..
Content moderation is covered by the CDA section 230; completely separate from the DMCA
And it 100% should apply to Cloudflare as well; if they're caching copyrighted material they need to respond to takedown requests or lose that safe harbor protection. Just as it applies to Google for indexing alleged copyright material; if you've ever seen that "links removed due to DMCA takedown notices" in search results, even when they are not hosting said content.
IANAL also, and I don't know how much DMCA stuff is handled cross borders (I do believe some DMCA provisions are applicable thru trade treaties and the like, but not sure); and I do think DMCA takedowns are rife with abuse; but content moderation really has nothing to do with it..
It's not hiding behind that fact. It just is a fact.
I'm directly replying to:
Which is exactly what Cloudflare wants and has planned all along.
They've planned all along to mix bad hosting with good hosting to make any attempts to block them, legal or personal, cause plenty of collateral damage.
So to avoid this, how should they have done things differently?
This is literally the business model. The owner of an IP address is responsible for the content delivered from that IP address. Cloudflare would like to have it both ways -- they get to multiplex sites behind their network infrastructure and accept money for the service, but not be responsible for the content that they deliver, because it originally came from somewhere else.
> The owner of an IP address is responsible for the content delivered from that IP address
Nope, you are totally wrong; they are immune by US law.
AFAIK, CloudFlare removed only a handful of sites, but protected 100s - 1000s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230
Nope, you are totally wrong; they are immune by US law.
AFAIK, CloudFlare removed only a handful of sites, but protected 100s - 1000s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_230
In case the use of "literally" wasn't enough of a clue, this is incorrect. For the same reason that the DNS service, the ISP, or the internet itself are not responsible for the content.
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It's pretty much how any CDN would work?
Nice best of list of pirate services!
A couple of those I didnt know, how kind of them to provide this helpful overview.
Pirate Streisand effect. Love it.
I’m just wondering about this as Austria historically has been very lax about falling for demands of the intellectual properties bullies.
Edit: I see it’s mostly Austrian film makers (some great ones in there to be fair) and Elsevier (yikes!) behind those takedown attempts.
I’m just wondering about this as Austria historically has been very lax about falling for demands of the intellectual properties bullies.
Edit: I see it’s mostly Austrian film makers (some great ones in there to be fair) and Elsevier (yikes!) behind those takedown attempts.
The Piracy subreddit is one of the best sources for staying abreast of current pirating options:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/
This happens in my country as well. When I first noticed random cloudflare IPs timing out, I didn't think too much about it and assumed it was some routing issue, but then it happened again and again so I did some searching and found some people on the same ISP as me mentioning that it conveniently happens when big football matches are on, and the dates did indeed line up. No, that is not a joke.
What country, if you care to share?
Russia. They also temporarily blocked large chunks of AWS IPs back when they fought with Telegram.
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/government/russia-bans...
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/government/russia-bans...
I'd rather not share, but it's not russia.
I will guess at the UK. Premier League have many court ordered blocks on ISPs in place.
This is very on-brand for the Austrian government, it somehow manages to be even worse at these things than the German one.
Fun(and very disappointing) talk in German about their fuckups during the pandemic: https://media.ccc.de/v/gpn20-12-die-unterhaltsamsten-sterrei...
Fun(and very disappointing) talk in German about their fuckups during the pandemic: https://media.ccc.de/v/gpn20-12-die-unterhaltsamsten-sterrei...
Courts act completely separate from the government actually, at least in Austria.
I live in a country that has also blocked piracy but at the DNS level (Australia, not Austria).
I suspect that most anti piracy groups are now moving to long game by increasing the difficulty in getting to piracy websites rather than blocking them. I remember significantly more seeds on popular torrents in 2014 compared to now. I think this is a mix of streaming services as well as complexity of piracy.
I do take solice in the fact that piracy will act as a disruptor in unruly markets. Advertisement breaks in streaming platforms, increased cost per service or service fragmentation and other user hostile activities will increase the rate of piracy, creating a balance between good and unscrupulous.
I suspect that most anti piracy groups are now moving to long game by increasing the difficulty in getting to piracy websites rather than blocking them. I remember significantly more seeds on popular torrents in 2014 compared to now. I think this is a mix of streaming services as well as complexity of piracy.
I do take solice in the fact that piracy will act as a disruptor in unruly markets. Advertisement breaks in streaming platforms, increased cost per service or service fragmentation and other user hostile activities will increase the rate of piracy, creating a balance between good and unscrupulous.
> but at the DNS level
Isn't this a bit like taking the phone numbers out of the phone book? Sure, people can't easily look them up, but if you know the right numbers, you don't need that.
Or is there more than that?
Isn't this a bit like taking the phone numbers out of the phone book? Sure, people can't easily look them up, but if you know the right numbers, you don't need that.
Or is there more than that?
Several ISP have appliances that can inspect DNS traffic and redirect to a the ISP DNS.
Then, even if you change DNS servers, you will be not able to reach blocked sites.
The only way to bypass that, at the moment is to use DoH.
Source: I have been worked for an ISP and I was in charge of that.
Source: I have been worked for an ISP and I was in charge of that.
My mother's cable provider, Optimum Cable, routes DNS traffic to their own DNS servers.
To make matters worse, they engage in gratuitous blocking; for example, they won't resolve addresses of private networks (192.168.x.y, 10.x.y.z, etc...). For example, 192.168.1.1.nip.io won't resolve on my mom's network, but will almost everywhere else.
The solution, as another poster pointed out, was to use DNS-over-TLS.
To make matters worse, they engage in gratuitous blocking; for example, they won't resolve addresses of private networks (192.168.x.y, 10.x.y.z, etc...). For example, 192.168.1.1.nip.io won't resolve on my mom's network, but will almost everywhere else.
The solution, as another poster pointed out, was to use DNS-over-TLS.
> for example, they won't resolve addresses of private networks (192.168.x.y, 10.x.y.z, etc...)
That's called "DNS rebinding protection", and it's meant to protect against DNS rebind attacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_rebinding).
That's called "DNS rebinding protection", and it's meant to protect against DNS rebind attacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_rebinding).
I found the following article to be very helpful when troubleshooting and bypassing that practice:
Anyway, other programs on your system may be affected too so addressing the issue at the system level is also important.
https://help.dnsfilter.com/hc/en-us/articles/1500008110182-transparent-proxying
Anyway, other programs on your system may be affected too so addressing the issue at the system level is also important.
Dns over TLS has been a life saver due to this shit. I’ve my modem exposing its own dns server but using a dns over tls upstream instead of my ISP. Works perfectly.
There was some real shit going on with some Indonesian ISPs downright blocking connections to known public DNS resolvers (8.8.8.8, 1.1.1.1, etc). Dangerously close to the China-level firewalls that block known VPNs as well.
> Then, even if you change DNS servers, you will be not able to reach blocked sites.
Is this done simply by intercepting UDP port 53 requests somehow? I've only ever had to intercept https as part of development, but have no idea how this would work for UDP. Any details you can share?
Is this done simply by intercepting UDP port 53 requests somehow? I've only ever had to intercept https as part of development, but have no idea how this would work for UDP. Any details you can share?
Yep that’s exactly how it works. Not all ISPs actively intercept and reply to your queries, but the rest still monitor all port 53 traffic and log your queries.
Naturally, a lot of HNers hate encrypted DoH which solves both the active MITM and passive monitoring problems. Example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25344358
Naturally, a lot of HNers hate encrypted DoH which solves both the active MITM and passive monitoring problems. Example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25344358
It’s 100% not true that all ISPs monitor DNS packets.
I’ve worked for several who didn’t. Of course all have the ability to do just that so as a user you can’t tell. If you’re in the EU they can’t sell that data at least.
I’ve worked for several who didn’t. Of course all have the ability to do just that so as a user you can’t tell. If you’re in the EU they can’t sell that data at least.
We just prefer the small local ISP monitoring our queries to Google and Cloudflare doing so, as the ISP does not learn a lot more than already at hand - they know the IPs I connect to anyway.
Simply direct all outbound DNS traffic to your own DNS server. You could do the same for your LAN by adding a port forward rule in your router (for LAN, not for WAN like you usually would to get incoming traffic around NAT)
Could I not just put the IP address in my url bar? Or do browsers go through DNS with that anyway?
That usually won't work. If a site uses SNI and has many sites behind a single IP (like cloudflare, for example), the server won't know which host's content to respond with.
If it isn't a shared IP, your own browser will block it because of a cert mismatch.
The best way to do this is to update your own /etc/hosts file to point the domain at the correct IP.
If it isn't a shared IP, your own browser will block it because of a cert mismatch.
The best way to do this is to update your own /etc/hosts file to point the domain at the correct IP.
Dns blocking is exactly like that. I don't live australia, but if I go to the piratebay for example with my isp dns I get a message it's blocked. If I change to google or cloudflare dns it works just fine
Yeah no one really cares that it's not super effective in Australia though.
the courts order blocks, the ISPs block it at dns because it's cheap and easy and pirates are either scared off by the warning message or just use Google dns
It's good enough and mostly non disruptive
the courts order blocks, the ISPs block it at dns because it's cheap and easy and pirates are either scared off by the warning message or just use Google dns
It's good enough and mostly non disruptive
It's supposed to be a measure against technically non-savy people. It might work since a lot of people are not aware of DNS.
Sci-hub and LibGen blocked for Elsevier. So that only people able to pay hundreds of dollars have access tho scientific papers and books.
Stay classy, "free" societies.
Stay classy, "free" societies.
Fortunately some Scihub domains are not blocked in Austria, you just gotta try some.
It's nice that they give people a public list of interesting websites in case they want to infringe on some copyrights.
Don't think it works like that.
The people who didn't know about these site before probably didn't practice piracy at all anyway, so having this list of blocked websites won't help them now anyway as they can't access them easily now anyway.
So IMHO these blocks mainly work at stopping Average Joes from accessing low-friction, low hanging fruit piracy and annoying them enough that they'd rather give Netflix 12 Euros than learn how to bypass these annoying restrictions.
The people who didn't know about these site before probably didn't practice piracy at all anyway, so having this list of blocked websites won't help them now anyway as they can't access them easily now anyway.
So IMHO these blocks mainly work at stopping Average Joes from accessing low-friction, low hanging fruit piracy and annoying them enough that they'd rather give Netflix 12 Euros than learn how to bypass these annoying restrictions.
You are probably right, it’s just funny that there’s a public list saying „don’t go there“ which kinda acts like a „forbidden books“ list making it more interesting.
For broke kids with more free time than money, yeah learning to access forbidden pirate sites is cool and interesting, but since Austria is a relatively high income country, most people I know here don't bother with piracy at all and just pay for content anyway.
So blocks like these will definitely discourage more Average Joes from low hanging fruit piracy and keep them as law-abiding paying customers rather than turning them into "hackers".
So blocks like these will definitely discourage more Average Joes from low hanging fruit piracy and keep them as law-abiding paying customers rather than turning them into "hackers".
Austrian checking in, the problem with the "high income" logic is that most stuff offered over here is just pretty crappy.
The libraries of streaming services are tiny compared to international offerings and some don't even offer anything in Austria at all because it's a small market.
Pirating is still alive and well, not necessarily because people can't/don't want to afford the alternatives, but because they just aren't as convenient.
The libraries of streaming services are tiny compared to international offerings and some don't even offer anything in Austria at all because it's a small market.
Pirating is still alive and well, not necessarily because people can't/don't want to afford the alternatives, but because they just aren't as convenient.
Weird, I‘m from AT as well and I know people from every income bracket who pirate content. Except for elderly people, currently.
It was a joke, don't take it so seriously...
But as an Austrian myself, piracy was alive and well when I was in the age group where that usually happens and many "regular" people used free streaming sites when kino.to and others were still popular.
But as an Austrian myself, piracy was alive and well when I was in the age group where that usually happens and many "regular" people used free streaming sites when kino.to and others were still popular.
It does actually work really great. With old sites going down from time to time and DMCA requests making it difficult to find new piracy sites via search engines, having a list is very convenient.
How does that work, when the websites on those lists don't work in your country?
VPN
People who need to use that list of blocked websites usually have no idea of VPNs. And vide versa. People used to VPNs already know the pirate sites and don't need that list.
I think you are underestimating the popularity of VPNs these days, just watching a YouTube video for "regular" people will have NordVPN, ExpressVPN ads on them advertising them as good for "privacy" or watching Netflix while you are on vacation. It's not a technology only accessible to nerds for a long time.
Thats the misconception i was talking about. Unless you are traveling the high seas regularly, you will sooner or later get into the situation, that you come back and all your links are dead.
On the up side. Its only fair that Austria be put at an economic and scientific disadvantage for once. Well, whoever signed this off must have thought so anyway.
They're way ahead of you on that. Much like its bigger cousin Germany, Austria is in general a dinosaur, technologically, culturally and politically.
Low tech wages and archaic working practices, stuffy bureaucracy, cash and physical paperwork needed for many things, poorly developed, expensive and slow internet infrastructure, corrupt and idiot politicians who don't understand the modern technology sector, litigious politically connected companies who sue anyone they don't like and lobby for anti-consumer laws that only benefit their cartel, privacy regulations taken to the extreme which mainly protect the crooked and unlawful people and businesses from being known to the public, etc.
This news isn't surprising to anyone familiar with Austria and these intelectual property bullies from the list of companies that got the Austrian court to block those IPs is just the tip of a huge shitty iceberg in Austrian tech & politics.
Low tech wages and archaic working practices, stuffy bureaucracy, cash and physical paperwork needed for many things, poorly developed, expensive and slow internet infrastructure, corrupt and idiot politicians who don't understand the modern technology sector, litigious politically connected companies who sue anyone they don't like and lobby for anti-consumer laws that only benefit their cartel, privacy regulations taken to the extreme which mainly protect the crooked and unlawful people and businesses from being known to the public, etc.
This news isn't surprising to anyone familiar with Austria and these intelectual property bullies from the list of companies that got the Austrian court to block those IPs is just the tip of a huge shitty iceberg in Austrian tech & politics.
They’re also like world no 8 in gdp per capita. I think they’ll be ok.
GDP per capita isn't the be-all and end-al of statistics for defining a country's success. Just ask the residents of the Republic of Ireland, the country with the second highest GDP/capita in the EU, how they feel about this position.
Sure, life is good here, if, you're not a tech worker, and that sector become more and more important in generating wealth, skilled jobs with a future, attracting skilled immigrants to pay taxes, and to project influence and soft power globally, that's why so many smart but not necessarily rich countries jumped to take advantage of this new sector (China most famously).
So a high GDP per capita might not save you in the long run if every ambitious tech graduate is leaving your country to Switzerland, London, Germany, Ireland, SV, etc. for a better environment where they can grow their career and earn better salaries, which leads to most tech products and web services used in your country all coming from abroad because your domestic tech industry is shit since your country got complacent and decided to sleep through the tech revolution with the idea that you'll "be fine since we're 8th GDP/capita in the world".
Sure, life is good here, if, you're not a tech worker, and that sector become more and more important in generating wealth, skilled jobs with a future, attracting skilled immigrants to pay taxes, and to project influence and soft power globally, that's why so many smart but not necessarily rich countries jumped to take advantage of this new sector (China most famously).
So a high GDP per capita might not save you in the long run if every ambitious tech graduate is leaving your country to Switzerland, London, Germany, Ireland, SV, etc. for a better environment where they can grow their career and earn better salaries, which leads to most tech products and web services used in your country all coming from abroad because your domestic tech industry is shit since your country got complacent and decided to sleep through the tech revolution with the idea that you'll "be fine since we're 8th GDP/capita in the world".
Ha, I reckon you live there. The description is pretty authentic.
Hmm, I am a LIWEST customer myself, but libgen.is is not blocked for me - so are they really blocking IP adresses? I am using 1.1.1.1 as my DNS.
Edit: Okay i tried a few links now - many show a „this domain is for sale“ page, while some work - so I dunno what to do with that…
Edit: Okay i tried a few links now - many show a „this domain is for sale“ page, while some work - so I dunno what to do with that…
The IP addresses on the bottom of the list are blocked. For instance you can check a host which only has a single blocked IP on and you won't be able to navigate to it. For instance preis-zone.com or www.skodacommunity.de are fully unavailable right now since both the IPs on that domain are blocked (188.114.96.12 and 188.114.97.12) when resolved from Austria.
Some cloudflare worker page are also not loading correctly. A reply I got on twitter pointed out that you cannot load urbanarrow.com from Austria properly (for me it gets stuck after language selection).
Also you are more likely to see failures if you are only using IPv4 as some hosts also answer to IPv6.
Some cloudflare worker page are also not loading correctly. A reply I got on twitter pointed out that you cannot load urbanarrow.com from Austria properly (for me it gets stuck after language selection).
Also you are more likely to see failures if you are only using IPv4 as some hosts also answer to IPv6.
Energie AG here, nothing seems blocked for me.
Wow. Are they basically turning off a large chunk of the internet for Austria?
*Fixed
*Fixed
Austria—Schnitzel not kangaroo.
The last time I was in Austria, all of the tourist shops had t-shirts with one of those Australian kangaroo crossing signs on it and the text "No kangaroos in Austria."
The two aren't at all mutually exclusive, just so you know!
Kangaroo schnitzel sounds intriguing but gamey.
No more than venison schnitzel. Lots of good recipes online.
And now that we're already totally off topic...does "gamey" actually mean anything other "having flavour that we're not inured to or been watered down to lowest-common denominator tastes?"
Perhaps, but there are many methods to make meat less gamey, and I suspect most of them was invented before the current blandness set in, which suggests it wasn't welcome in the old days either.
Supposedly it's related to iron content.
But I'm baffled at the Oxford definition returned by Google: "having the strong flavour or smell of game, especially when it is high". There are very similar definitions that use "tainted" or even "spoiled" instead of "high". I think I'd rather my roo steak tasting of marijuana than of rotten flesh.
But I'm baffled at the Oxford definition returned by Google: "having the strong flavour or smell of game, especially when it is high". There are very similar definitions that use "tainted" or even "spoiled" instead of "high". I think I'd rather my roo steak tasting of marijuana than of rotten flesh.
Lets put another shrimp on the bar-b. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hOLm_k6eCs
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Austria.
the other Australia, the one in Europe, you know Freud, Mozart, Schwarzenegger, Hitler, that Austria.
Austria. Not Australia.
Seems to be a specific action/order by mentioned ISP. Using the biggest ISP in Austria (A1) still allows access to listed IPs.
I see failures on Magenta, A1 (in parts), Liwest and Drei. It’s not constantly blocked which is why I think they didn’t fully roll it out yet.
Also failures won’t happen if you have an IPv6 connection and it can connect that way.
Also failures won’t happen if you have an IPv6 connection and it can connect that way.
My ISP is Plusnet (a subsiduary of British Telecom) and half of those IPs resolve to http://www.ukispcourtorders.co.uk.
I don't know whether the DNS is being resolved first, but in the url it's listing the IP: http://www.ukispcourtorders.co.uk/?JNI_URL=104.21.36.27/&JNI... ...
My DNS is Quad9 over TLS.
I don't know whether the DNS is being resolved first, but in the url it's listing the IP: http://www.ukispcourtorders.co.uk/?JNI_URL=104.21.36.27/&JNI... ...
My DNS is Quad9 over TLS.
Malwarebytes won't let me near any of them. Take from that what you will (they are genuinely harmful, or someone wants them blocked, or a bit of both?)
So this is really interesting, when a fundamental fabric of the internet is run by a single company, and said government wants to target them, unilaterally or otherwise, some dark stuff can happen VERY fast.
it doesnt matter what the issue is behind this blocking, it matters that we have no safety nets for gov blocks on thought.
it doesnt matter what the issue is behind this blocking, it matters that we have no safety nets for gov blocks on thought.
Works fine for me in the UK (M247), but when I use a German (Telecom) connection
or UK (Plusnet) they are blocked.
Did a check with the Austiran VPN server. The block must be on DNS level only. Using google servers as DNS, for example, will bypass all of these blocks. Or you can run your own DNS server like Unbound.
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It's easier for Cloudflare to ban the sites causing this and replace the affected IPs than to fight this in the court.
Not related to KiwiFarms by any chance? (From the downvotes I infer that cesspool is somewhat popular.)
kiwifarms needs to go away, yesterday. but this seems unrelated. piracy is a much bigger deal to these folks than doxxing, organized harassment, swatting, etc
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Ironically, wouldn’t using WARP by Cloudflare solve this?
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No HTTPS, no party.
What do you think HTTPS has to do with IP blocking by your ISP?
It's possibly that the commenter is reffering to OP's link not being HTTPS?
I hadn't notice that, perhaps you're right.
yup
clever-leap(1)
It seems it's blocking the domains, not the IPs, so I guess it's more at DNS level
They used to do DNS blocking for years which you could easily bypass by using a different DNS provider. Today they added IP addresses (see bottom of the list).
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If the comments here are correct, the Austrians told Cloudflare "you'll go a-waltzing matilda with me." Or however you say that in German. Mate.
Australia has been problematic for Cloudflare for 5+ years now. [0]
Bandwidth is prohibitive expensive there, and as such - Cloudflare has routed around Australia resulting in much higher latencies.
Australia has pushed for tech companies to install back doors into user data. [1]
Now this.
[0] https://medium.com/@SimonEast/the-declining-value-of-cloudfl...
[1] https://www.accessnow.org/closing-backdoor-australia/
EDIT. I have to laugh at myself. I misread this as “Australia”, not “Austria”. Doh.
Bandwidth is prohibitive expensive there, and as such - Cloudflare has routed around Australia resulting in much higher latencies.
Australia has pushed for tech companies to install back doors into user data. [1]
Now this.
[0] https://medium.com/@SimonEast/the-declining-value-of-cloudfl...
[1] https://www.accessnow.org/closing-backdoor-australia/
EDIT. I have to laugh at myself. I misread this as “Australia”, not “Austria”. Doh.
Just to be sure, you do realize this is about Austria not Australia?
Austria, Australia;
Sweden, Switzerland;
and worst of all Colombia, The District of Columbia (which isn't a district but a state), British Columbia (which isn't in Britain), also a small Australian Columbia (which is actually in Australia).
I feel we need to get someone on clearing up this mess of confusingly named localities.
I feel we need to get someone on clearing up this mess of confusingly named localities.
Slovenia and Slovakia: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43419675
Don't forget Georgia
Lol. My mistake. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I just updated my post. Whoops.
Made the same mistake at first (using old glasses prescription is my excuse...). Felt like an Aussie government kinda thing to do as well, so it made sense. On second thoughts they probably wouldn't need the court order ha ha.
The headline is about Austria, not Australia.
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Article is about Austria.
There's an article? I see a list of blocks with no commentary.
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https://yandex.com/search/?msid=1661717771857485-52510224241...