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Previous: A NeXT Computer Emulator
https://previous.unixdude.net/
122 comments
Like NsCDE [1], these kinds of old school environments are nice an all until you fire up a modern browser or an app made for Gnome and you end up in a kind of aesthetic mess.
[1] https://github.com/NsCDE/NsCDE
[1] https://github.com/NsCDE/NsCDE
Also Windowmaker. I have been using it for years back in the day, and just to be sure reinstalled it a few minutes ago to check how it behaves today: no problems whatsoever with Firefox, LibreOffice, Gimp, Handbrake, and other modern apps. Using it right now to write this post with Firefox, in fact. Not that I didn't expect it to work since the last stable version is dated 2020 and the GitHub repo is quite active (last update 3 days ago).
Nostalgia aside (I was lucky enough to attend a real NeXT demonstration in 1994/1995) WindowMaker has been literally a life saver over 20 years ago when I had to build a desktop for ~50 remote points of sale in which the operator could only perform a few tasks, and setting up it as a locked "kiosk on steroids" with a fixed dock that could open only the 4-5 needed apps allowed them to do their jobs without distractions or exposing the unnecessary/dangerous parts of the system.
https://www.windowmaker.org/
https://github.com/window-maker/wmaker
Nostalgia aside (I was lucky enough to attend a real NeXT demonstration in 1994/1995) WindowMaker has been literally a life saver over 20 years ago when I had to build a desktop for ~50 remote points of sale in which the operator could only perform a few tasks, and setting up it as a locked "kiosk on steroids" with a fixed dock that could open only the 4-5 needed apps allowed them to do their jobs without distractions or exposing the unnecessary/dangerous parts of the system.
https://www.windowmaker.org/
https://github.com/window-maker/wmaker
I've been using Window Maker since the early 2000s whenever i use Linux. I have tried other window managers (including a long-ish stint with GNOME 2 back in late 2000s) but always end up going back to Window Maker.
Also occasionally i hack on a GUI toolkit in C that i use for a few utilities (mainly a music player and a filesystem browser) and i hope at some point to make it good enough to use as a backend for LCL/Lazarus. Here is an old shot with various example programs/tests and the two utilities i mentioned:
https://i.imgur.com/cMxfxQg.png
Also occasionally i hack on a GUI toolkit in C that i use for a few utilities (mainly a music player and a filesystem browser) and i hope at some point to make it good enough to use as a backend for LCL/Lazarus. Here is an old shot with various example programs/tests and the two utilities i mentioned:
https://i.imgur.com/cMxfxQg.png
A buddy of mine had a NeXTstation in '90 (or '91, memory fades). Sure it was nice, I mean really nice. The reason I wasn't completely blown off my socks was only that we observed the Amiga in '85 (a common friend even had one). For us youngsters those five years seemed like a long time and the progress was expected. DOS/Windows seemed like a regression to us. I'm sure these days the juniors wonder why we geezers bother with Linux and not use Android instead ...
Windowmaker is my go-to on systems where there is no hardware acceleration so they get bogged down with anything trying to do compositing.
I used WM actively in the late 90s as my primary. I still put it on any Pi or things like that that I need a quick desktop for. So clean.
Not saying it doesn't work. Just saying that the whole aesthetic is very easily ruined by a few apps.
Yeah I saw a NeXT demo in same time frame at Atl Comdex. That display postscript was coolio.
I really liked CDE on my Solaris x86 box when I was in college. I'd love to see a "modernized" version of it. Modern renderers w/acceleration, slightly updated UI but keeping with the general feel of CDE, etc. I love macOS, but there's something about the old Irix or CDE environments that made you feel like you were "working" and not just using the same old computer as everyone else.
Xfce + a GTK theme that mimics CDE is probably a good option: https://github.com/B00merang-Project/Solaris-9 I couldn't get this theme to work on a modern gnome/GTK4 environment, sadly, but suspect it would still work with something GTK3 like xfce.
I think you touched the real problem here, there are many telented people willing to work on great GTK themes, but it's really hard to maintain themes when gnome is changing the API all the time... So most people give up.
We have hope on the horizon. The Ladybird browser won't look so out of place on classic UIs when it reaches maturity.
AfterStep was also a nice NeXT like experience. I don’t think it’s maintained anymore. I used to run it on RH 5.0 back in the day (ca. 1999).
yeah, last commit was a day before Russia invaded Ukraine again.
This might be a previously unknown bit of NeXT and Windows history.
While Windows 3 was in development I was in the next building working on os/2. (not bragging <g>)
I spent a lot of time in a lab that had a lot of hardware. One day a NeXT machine showed up in the lab.
The next day there was a line of Windows developers waiting for their chance too look at it. (we'll forget the fun I had grabbing a screen shot of the desktop which i then left displayed full screen)
It was a mere matter of days before a build of Windows with 3d buttons came out, and the rest is more history.
While Windows 3 was in development I was in the next building working on os/2. (not bragging <g>)
I spent a lot of time in a lab that had a lot of hardware. One day a NeXT machine showed up in the lab.
The next day there was a line of Windows developers waiting for their chance too look at it. (we'll forget the fun I had grabbing a screen shot of the desktop which i then left displayed full screen)
It was a mere matter of days before a build of Windows with 3d buttons came out, and the rest is more history.
previously discussions
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19084769
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8745943
this forum is where the dev discussion is happening http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/index.php?topic=2642.0
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19084769
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8745943
this forum is where the dev discussion is happening http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/index.php?topic=2642.0
Thank you for the previous Previous discussions. Im looking forward to the next Previous NeXT computer discussion.
That's not the proper homepage, this is:
> http://previous.alternative-system.com/
Also, the homepage at unixdude.net is not distributing the sources which is a GPL license violation.
> http://previous.alternative-system.com/
Also, the homepage at unixdude.net is not distributing the sources which is a GPL license violation.
Have you asked for the sources? GPL does not require proactive distribution, that's just the common way people avoid handling many individual requests.
For anyone wondering nextcomputers.org has the necessary rom files available in their file section.-
Along with just about all the public ally available software ever made. It’s really a treasure trove.
Along with just about all the public ally available software ever made. It’s really a treasure trove.
Thank you! Any recommendation on the best one to use with Previous? It looks like it supports a lot of models.
I mean the ultimate model is either a turbo cube with dimension board, or a turbo colour station.
The turbo cube dimension had dual monitors (one colour one bw) in 1989 which was cool. Myself I just run a turbocolour station.
The turbo cube dimension had dual monitors (one colour one bw) in 1989 which was cool. Myself I just run a turbocolour station.
On mobile I just get a splash and that’s it. Is there something more to this?
On desktop, you can use the top navigation to get to the substance of the site. On mobile, it hides the nav so you can't see it. Try these:
https://previous.unixdude.net/about.html
https://previous.unixdude.net/screenshots.html
https://previous.unixdude.net/download.html
https://previous.unixdude.net/version-history.html
https://previous.unixdude.net/about.html
https://previous.unixdude.net/screenshots.html
https://previous.unixdude.net/download.html
https://previous.unixdude.net/version-history.html
You can tap in the top right to get the menu.
Turn the phone 90 degrees
It can also boot Plan9 over the network from another Previous instance, if you’re into that.
Plan 9 for NeXT works well in Previous with a 9p server running on the emulation host or a different machine on the net. Previous support for NeXTstep includes an NFS and NetInfo server in Previous itself. The equivalent emulation of the 9p protocol is not yet available, however.
Also note that the most recent version of Plan 9 for NeXT is the second edition (http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/plan9/history/plan9-2e.tar.bz2). Updating the code to use the new graphics system introduced in the 3rd edition is on my to-do list...
Shameless plug - the 9th International Workshop on Plan 9 takes place in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada, this April: http://iwp9.org
Btw., NetBSD is also supported in Previous now, but there has been a regression after NetBSD 5.2.3 that we have only been able to identify and fix recently (it seems that there are not a lot of NeXT NetBSD users left...) thanks to the great support by Izumi Tsutsui. So NetBSD 9.3 currently needs a number of patches as discussed on the NetBSD/next68k mailing list (http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-next68k/), but 5.2.3 should work out of the box.
Also note that the most recent version of Plan 9 for NeXT is the second edition (http://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/plan9/history/plan9-2e.tar.bz2). Updating the code to use the new graphics system introduced in the 3rd edition is on my to-do list...
Shameless plug - the 9th International Workshop on Plan 9 takes place in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada, this April: http://iwp9.org
Btw., NetBSD is also supported in Previous now, but there has been a regression after NetBSD 5.2.3 that we have only been able to identify and fix recently (it seems that there are not a lot of NeXT NetBSD users left...) thanks to the great support by Izumi Tsutsui. So NetBSD 9.3 currently needs a number of patches as discussed on the NetBSD/next68k mailing list (http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-next68k/), but 5.2.3 should work out of the box.
I'm still running windowmaker
every couple of years I go back to check how's windowmaker/gnustep. Too bad the progress seems to have stalled and the support for some modern features is lacking, I would definitely be open to give it a go again
Note that Window Maker and GNUstep are two completely different projects with two completely different teams. It is just that using GNUstep with Window Maker gives a mostly consistent look (and feel, for the most part, though there are differences) if you use GNUstep's NeXT-like theme (GNUstep supports theming).
I just noticed I can install this on NixOS. NixStep, here we come!!
I dream of getting a PlayStation 2 Linux kit and setting up the GUI. I believe that was the default desktop environment!
OK so I have windowmaker running on nixos but some windows such as Firefox can't be dragged by the titlebar, only resized. What do??
other questions: sometimes right-click for context menu requires a click and hold, other times it doesn't. configurable?
other questions: sometimes right-click for context menu requires a click and hold, other times it doesn't. configurable?
> OK so I have windowmaker running on nixos but some windows such as Firefox can't be dragged by the titlebar, only resized. What do??
This is an issue with how said applications seem to expect the window manager to handle some stuff as they do things that normally is up to the window manager, but Window Maker doesn't.
Right now there isn't much you can do aside from having these applications let Window Maker do the window management itself instead of doing it themselves. Some of them, like Firefox, have an option for that (right click somewhere in the Firefox toolbar and select "Customize toolbar" and then from the bottom left corner click "Title bar").
Some applications do not have such an option (e.g. Steam), so for them you need to force it: middle click in the empty space between windows, locate the window you want to have a titlebar for and right click on it while keeping the right button down (the menu disappears if you move it). From the menu select "Attributes" and using the choice box at the top of the window that appears select "Advanced options". Finally check the "Ignore decoration changes" checkbox and press Save. Then restart the application and it should have a titlebar by Window Maker.
Sadly for the latter it'll be on top of whatever titlebar the program has, but IMO it beans not working at all - and as a bonus you have all the additional window management commands available that pretty much no "i'll make my own title bars" program provides, like shading.
> other questions: sometimes right-click for context menu requires a click and hold, other times it doesn't. configurable?
It isn't a matter of configuration (AFAIK anyway), they are different menu types:
"popup" menus appear only while the mouse button is down (note that it doesn't matter what button you click, e.g. choice boxes show popup menus with the left mouse button).
"application" menus can stay on screen. You can also show them like in popup menus by pushing down the mouse button and dragging the mouse and they'll disappear if you release the button, but normally stay on screen until they are hidden to show another menu (you can keep them on screen by clicking and dragging the title - in that case an X button appears so you can close them later). There is one exception to this and is if you try show the same menu twice, the second instance will disappear as if it was a popup menu when you release the mouse button (e.g. if you middle click to show the windows menu and then keep it on screen by dragging it a bit to make it permanent and then middle click again somewhere else to show the windows menu again, a second instance of the menu will appear that will disappear once you release the button).
You can distinguish the latter from the former by the fact that the latter have a title.
This is an issue with how said applications seem to expect the window manager to handle some stuff as they do things that normally is up to the window manager, but Window Maker doesn't.
Right now there isn't much you can do aside from having these applications let Window Maker do the window management itself instead of doing it themselves. Some of them, like Firefox, have an option for that (right click somewhere in the Firefox toolbar and select "Customize toolbar" and then from the bottom left corner click "Title bar").
Some applications do not have such an option (e.g. Steam), so for them you need to force it: middle click in the empty space between windows, locate the window you want to have a titlebar for and right click on it while keeping the right button down (the menu disappears if you move it). From the menu select "Attributes" and using the choice box at the top of the window that appears select "Advanced options". Finally check the "Ignore decoration changes" checkbox and press Save. Then restart the application and it should have a titlebar by Window Maker.
Sadly for the latter it'll be on top of whatever titlebar the program has, but IMO it beans not working at all - and as a bonus you have all the additional window management commands available that pretty much no "i'll make my own title bars" program provides, like shading.
> other questions: sometimes right-click for context menu requires a click and hold, other times it doesn't. configurable?
It isn't a matter of configuration (AFAIK anyway), they are different menu types:
"popup" menus appear only while the mouse button is down (note that it doesn't matter what button you click, e.g. choice boxes show popup menus with the left mouse button).
"application" menus can stay on screen. You can also show them like in popup menus by pushing down the mouse button and dragging the mouse and they'll disappear if you release the button, but normally stay on screen until they are hidden to show another menu (you can keep them on screen by clicking and dragging the title - in that case an X button appears so you can close them later). There is one exception to this and is if you try show the same menu twice, the second instance will disappear as if it was a popup menu when you release the mouse button (e.g. if you middle click to show the windows menu and then keep it on screen by dragging it a bit to make it permanent and then middle click again somewhere else to show the windows menu again, a second instance of the menu will appear that will disappear once you release the button).
You can distinguish the latter from the former by the fact that the latter have a title.
There's a lot of little details to fix. Like the volume controls on my keyboard don't work, some loading screen windows for some games flicker like hell... I'm sure these are solvable.
> Like the volume controls on my keyboard don't work
Perhaps some dockapp will work? Window Maker does not really handle volume controls itself, but you can use some other application for that stuff. My USB headset's volume controls do work but AFAIK that is done via Pulseaudio.
> some loading screen windows for some games flicker like hell... I'm sure these are solvable.
Not sure this is a Window Maker issue, perhaps it is some issue with the game or with Wine/Proton that if you use a compositor it masks it?
I often use Gamescope for games that do not work with Linux desktop nicely (also lets me switch virtual desktops seamlessly). I have my own fork of gamescope[0] that allows remapping keys which helps a lot with some indie games that do not do proper remapping too. Note though that this is almost two years old out of sync with Valve's gamescope (i should try and bring it up to date at some point).
[0] https://github.com/badsectoracula/gamescope/
Perhaps some dockapp will work? Window Maker does not really handle volume controls itself, but you can use some other application for that stuff. My USB headset's volume controls do work but AFAIK that is done via Pulseaudio.
> some loading screen windows for some games flicker like hell... I'm sure these are solvable.
Not sure this is a Window Maker issue, perhaps it is some issue with the game or with Wine/Proton that if you use a compositor it masks it?
I often use Gamescope for games that do not work with Linux desktop nicely (also lets me switch virtual desktops seamlessly). I have my own fork of gamescope[0] that allows remapping keys which helps a lot with some indie games that do not do proper remapping too. Note though that this is almost two years old out of sync with Valve's gamescope (i should try and bring it up to date at some point).
[0] https://github.com/badsectoracula/gamescope/
I've just spent hours messing with Window Maker. I was a NeXT admirer as a teen, so this is A. Maz. Ing! Your answer was really helpful. I'd already figured out how to just globally override window decorations (Firefox became draggable again!) but I think your way of doing it on a case-by-case basis may be better.
One of the most useful new things so far IMHO is being able to just move around or resize a window (without having to hold on either the title bar or a corner) by holding down Alt and left- or right-dragging. (Do GNOME's standard window managers provide anything like that?) That plus live move/resize has been amazing. But now I actually want to assign those to another mouse button; basically I want my "back" mouse button to be another Alt key I guess. It looks like "imwheel" might be able to do this remapping? I haven't finished investigating yet.
App discovery- Unlike the nicety of Gnome, which seems to autodiscover any newly installed apps, I seem to have to manually add icons for things or to put things in the right click menu. Is there any way to facilitate this? For example in Gnome when I hit the Windows key, the view pulls back and I get a search box with all my installed app icons shown below, which I can then page through. Anything like this in WindowMaker?
Mini-applications- There's not a whole lot on this but it sounds neat- basically the icon becomes an output region so I could have things like a Current Weather icon; it seems they are incompatible with Gnome? Any idea how I might be able to mess with that in NixOS/Window Maker?
Minimization- There's no clear place minimized things go, although they still can be brought back with alt-tab. Actually, I somehow lost the minimization widget in the menu bar I just noticed; the native controls (which I forced across everything in order to get draggability back) might not have one. I can windowshade title bars (hah, like old MacOS!) Actually maybe the whole concept of "minimizing" is off: Alt-H will "hide", which is fine actually. Uncluttered =)
I like that all the config files are text files, but I tried to comment out some lines in the menu bar config and it borked it and I subsequently ended up accidentally losing the changes I'd made (oops.. I assumed VSCode would remember unsaved files, as it tends to, but in this case it did not... maybe because windowmaker KILL's it when you close it, and I should have Exit'ed from within it instead?). So for the time being I decided to source-control the whole thing by setting GNUSTEP_USER_ROOT = "\${XDG_CONFIG_HOME}/GNUstep"; in the environment session vars and since my XDG_CONFIG_HOME is source-controlled, that made that trivial. So now I can manually edit these with aplomb.
Nitrogen will let me set the desktop background but it won't stick...
Default sound input/output devices- Is there a nice GUI to set these?? I tried using "pacmd" to set the default sink but it didn't "take" (apparently, I may have to reboot?)
One of the most useful new things so far IMHO is being able to just move around or resize a window (without having to hold on either the title bar or a corner) by holding down Alt and left- or right-dragging. (Do GNOME's standard window managers provide anything like that?) That plus live move/resize has been amazing. But now I actually want to assign those to another mouse button; basically I want my "back" mouse button to be another Alt key I guess. It looks like "imwheel" might be able to do this remapping? I haven't finished investigating yet.
App discovery- Unlike the nicety of Gnome, which seems to autodiscover any newly installed apps, I seem to have to manually add icons for things or to put things in the right click menu. Is there any way to facilitate this? For example in Gnome when I hit the Windows key, the view pulls back and I get a search box with all my installed app icons shown below, which I can then page through. Anything like this in WindowMaker?
Mini-applications- There's not a whole lot on this but it sounds neat- basically the icon becomes an output region so I could have things like a Current Weather icon; it seems they are incompatible with Gnome? Any idea how I might be able to mess with that in NixOS/Window Maker?
Minimization- There's no clear place minimized things go, although they still can be brought back with alt-tab. Actually, I somehow lost the minimization widget in the menu bar I just noticed; the native controls (which I forced across everything in order to get draggability back) might not have one. I can windowshade title bars (hah, like old MacOS!) Actually maybe the whole concept of "minimizing" is off: Alt-H will "hide", which is fine actually. Uncluttered =)
I like that all the config files are text files, but I tried to comment out some lines in the menu bar config and it borked it and I subsequently ended up accidentally losing the changes I'd made (oops.. I assumed VSCode would remember unsaved files, as it tends to, but in this case it did not... maybe because windowmaker KILL's it when you close it, and I should have Exit'ed from within it instead?). So for the time being I decided to source-control the whole thing by setting GNUSTEP_USER_ROOT = "\${XDG_CONFIG_HOME}/GNUstep"; in the environment session vars and since my XDG_CONFIG_HOME is source-controlled, that made that trivial. So now I can manually edit these with aplomb.
Nitrogen will let me set the desktop background but it won't stick...
Default sound input/output devices- Is there a nice GUI to set these?? I tried using "pacmd" to set the default sink but it didn't "take" (apparently, I may have to reboot?)
> App discovery- Unlike the nicety of Gnome, which seems to autodiscover any newly installed apps, I seem to have to manually add icons for things or to put things in the right click menu. Is there any way to facilitate this?
You can have scripts that generate menu entries dynamically which can be useful for that. If you have xdg_menu installed (check your distro) you can use it to make a menu for all available .desktop files. To do that open preferences, go to the menu editor, drag and drop a "Generated Submenu" entry, for the Command use "xdg_menu --format WindowMaker" and then click Save. You may need to restart Window Maker to work (should be a command in the right click menu).
> Mini-applications
These are "dockapps" and they're basically just tiny X windows. You can find a bunch of them at https://www.dockapps.net/
Note that most of them need to be compiled from source code. Also some are quite old (there are even some from the late 90s) and use old APIs, though most stuff that mention you can get from "repo.or.cz/dockapps.git" should work.
> Minimization
Minimization (actually called "miniaturization" for some reason :-P) should put windows in the bottom left corner, though i think this is configurable. Running applications can be hidden and hidden applications have a single "dot" at the bottom left corner of their tile - doubleclicking the tile will show them. Tiles with three dots at the bottom left corner are applications you haven't launched and double clicking them will launch them - in which case the dots are removed (double clicking the tile will focus the application) unless you hide it (in which case there will be one dot).
> I like that all the config files are text files
> Nitrogen will let me set the desktop background but it won't stick...
Window Maker has a GUI configuration editor (called WMPrefs) that should cover pretty much all options in the config file so you don't have to edit it by hand.
> Default sound input/output devices- Is there a nice GUI to set these?? I tried using "pacmd" to set the default sink but it didn't "take" (apparently, I may have to reboot?)
I'm using the alsamixer dockapp, though it is really only for volume. There might be a better dockapp but personally i've been calling pavucontrol via the Run dialog to switch audio devices.
You can have scripts that generate menu entries dynamically which can be useful for that. If you have xdg_menu installed (check your distro) you can use it to make a menu for all available .desktop files. To do that open preferences, go to the menu editor, drag and drop a "Generated Submenu" entry, for the Command use "xdg_menu --format WindowMaker" and then click Save. You may need to restart Window Maker to work (should be a command in the right click menu).
> Mini-applications
These are "dockapps" and they're basically just tiny X windows. You can find a bunch of them at https://www.dockapps.net/
Note that most of them need to be compiled from source code. Also some are quite old (there are even some from the late 90s) and use old APIs, though most stuff that mention you can get from "repo.or.cz/dockapps.git" should work.
> Minimization
Minimization (actually called "miniaturization" for some reason :-P) should put windows in the bottom left corner, though i think this is configurable. Running applications can be hidden and hidden applications have a single "dot" at the bottom left corner of their tile - doubleclicking the tile will show them. Tiles with three dots at the bottom left corner are applications you haven't launched and double clicking them will launch them - in which case the dots are removed (double clicking the tile will focus the application) unless you hide it (in which case there will be one dot).
> I like that all the config files are text files
> Nitrogen will let me set the desktop background but it won't stick...
Window Maker has a GUI configuration editor (called WMPrefs) that should cover pretty much all options in the config file so you don't have to edit it by hand.
> Default sound input/output devices- Is there a nice GUI to set these?? I tried using "pacmd" to set the default sink but it didn't "take" (apparently, I may have to reboot?)
I'm using the alsamixer dockapp, though it is really only for volume. There might be a better dockapp but personally i've been calling pavucontrol via the Run dialog to switch audio devices.
Nice, going to try all this! Thanks!!
Notifications- currently they show up in a floaty window in the top right of the screen briefly, is this configurable?
re: alsamixer- i used the TUI to change input/output but it required a reboot to take effect, I'm sure there's some way to not have to do that which I simply haven't figured out yet. Would prefer something a little more GUI for this use case though, like the UI in Gnome > Settings > Sound.
Notifications- currently they show up in a floaty window in the top right of the screen briefly, is this configurable?
re: alsamixer- i used the TUI to change input/output but it required a reboot to take effect, I'm sure there's some way to not have to do that which I simply haven't figured out yet. Would prefer something a little more GUI for this use case though, like the UI in Gnome > Settings > Sound.
Note that pavucontrol is a GUI app. It does need Pulseaudio though (Pipewire may also work as it implements the Pulseaudio API).
Notifications aren't handled by the window manager, but AFAIK most applications will use a "system tray"-like service if they find one running.
Check wmsystemtray which implements a system tray as a dockapp, i have it at my dock and all icons and notifications tend to go through it: https://www.dockapps.net/wmsystemtray
Notifications aren't handled by the window manager, but AFAIK most applications will use a "system tray"-like service if they find one running.
Check wmsystemtray which implements a system tray as a dockapp, i have it at my dock and all icons and notifications tend to go through it: https://www.dockapps.net/wmsystemtray
Heh! I ran the same for the first decade of Linux use.
Now I am sad.
Now I am sad.
Ah, back then when we were scientists and not app developers and were happy about building tools for our own contexts.
This has such a calming feeling to it.
This has such a calming feeling to it.
Does it also emulate the wickedly slow I/O times of the CD/RW drive (er, Canon Magento Optical drive, apparently)? I seem to recall waiting really long for anything to read or write to that thing, despite the wonder of having a CD that I could erase, with 660MB of storage.
Is there any real documentation? I have NeXT ROMs but no matter which one I use it crashes immediately.
It usually works pretty well - do you get any output at all?
Some more details would help. Which OS are you trying to run Previous on? Did you compile the code yourself or did you use a prebuilt binary?
Some more details would help. Which OS are you trying to run Previous on? Did you compile the code yourself or did you use a prebuilt binary?
It was a configuration issue between the machine being emulated and the ROM I was using. I found it by chance poking around in the config since there was no indication of what the problem was. Now I have to figure out everything else.
Just take a look at the buttons in window title bars - they have box shape with a very distinguishable 3D effect. NeXT design language was evidently borrowed by Windows 95. Which is a good thing, I still miss that level of clarity.
It looks like windows got rid of the shaft of the arrow with the change from win 3.0 to win 95.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/1/20943552/scroll-bar-visua...
https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/1/20943552/scroll-bar-visua...
> For running Previous you need a copy of the NeXT ROM.
I have an old NeXT machine that works and has NeXTstep running on it. How can I extract the ROM from it and use it to run this emulator?
I have an old NeXT machine that works and has NeXTstep running on it. How can I extract the ROM from it and use it to run this emulator?
If you don't already have a device for reading and writing EPROMs it's probably easier to just download ROM images from the internet.
Should have been PrEV.
That's indeed what's on the logo: https://previous.unixdude.net/images/prev-logo.png
The logo is "PReV". OP asked for "PrEV".
I think OP is wrong and the logo is better with the same lowercase "e" as the original NeXT logo, even though it's in a different place in the logo, but different strokes for different folks.
I think OP is wrong and the logo is better with the same lowercase "e" as the original NeXT logo, even though it's in a different place in the logo, but different strokes for different folks.
Nice, I didn’t realize the issue could be how it’s capitalized, thanks for pointing it out
Am OP, you're right, PReV is way better.
nice!
I think that MAME also has a NeXT emulation in it as well. Not sure how far along it is though. Think they had it booting most of the basic demo stuff but I could be confusing it with another bit of hw they had recently got running.
I think that MAME also has a NeXT emulation in it as well. Not sure how far along it is though. Think they had it booting most of the basic demo stuff but I could be confusing it with another bit of hw they had recently got running.
https://youtu.be/BpMODQBdTBE
Retrospective partly about NeXt with Steve Jobs.
Retrospective partly about NeXt with Steve Jobs.
Can someone get this running on the Web with WASM?
Not gonna lie: i upvoted this for the name :)
I am looking for a way to run Lotus Improv - which was a cool piece of software back then. Did anybody get this to run?
Yes, improv and lighthouse design quantrix (a pixel perfect clone after lotus killed improv) work fine in previous.
Quantrix is also a fat binary so you can run it on x86 nextstep or openstep under in a vm.
Quantrix is also a fat binary so you can run it on x86 nextstep or openstep under in a vm.
I've head about improv and I'd like to try it (or quantrix)
How would you start it in this emulator?
How would you start it in this emulator?
Just a Mac app? It doesn't even say anywhere on the page that it's Mac-limited. I wanted a Linux version...
> It doesn't even say anywhere on the page that it's Mac-limited.
Where does it say macOS? I see no mention of any supported platform.
FWIW the x86 version of OPENSTEP 4.2 has been running in virtual machines for some time.[1][2] Previous emulates the NeXT hardware and Motorola processor, and maybe some are interested in that. Personally, I'm really not, but it's an interesting use of emulation (which really only becomes useful when emulating a current platform on another, such as x86 on Apple Silicon or vice versa).
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAF0xdIiI20 [VirtualBox tutorial]
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVCxfoG8bv4 [VMWare Tutorial]
Where does it say macOS? I see no mention of any supported platform.
FWIW the x86 version of OPENSTEP 4.2 has been running in virtual machines for some time.[1][2] Previous emulates the NeXT hardware and Motorola processor, and maybe some are interested in that. Personally, I'm really not, but it's an interesting use of emulation (which really only becomes useful when emulating a current platform on another, such as x86 on Apple Silicon or vice versa).
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAF0xdIiI20 [VirtualBox tutorial]
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVCxfoG8bv4 [VMWare Tutorial]
Last week I've spent some time trying to make OpenStep run in qemu, but gave up after few hours. Apparently there is some incompatibility with how qemu emulates CD drive.
> Where does it say macOS? I see no mention of any supported platform.
That was exactly my point when I said:
> It doesn't even say anywhere on the page that it's Mac-limited
It says nothing about the OS it runs on, which IMHO is lame.
That was exactly my point when I said:
> It doesn't even say anywhere on the page that it's Mac-limited
It says nothing about the OS it runs on, which IMHO is lame.
> That was exactly my point when I said:
> > > It doesn't even say anywhere on the page that it's Mac-limited
If I said "it doesn't say anywhere that it only runs on OS/400," then this implies that it stated somewhere that the software runs on OS/400 just as your statement implies it runs on Mac. Where did you get Mac from in the first place if the about doesn't mention it?
> > > It doesn't even say anywhere on the page that it's Mac-limited
If I said "it doesn't say anywhere that it only runs on OS/400," then this implies that it stated somewhere that the software runs on OS/400 just as your statement implies it runs on Mac. Where did you get Mac from in the first place if the about doesn't mention it?
I wish it was capitalized as PReViouS or were just called PReV. :)
So what OS does this emulator run on? Windows, macOS, Linux?
Definitely works on macOS, I think Linux too. It’s SDL-based.
From the archive structure it appears MacOS only; I can't test it however.
Am I the only one disheartened not to find a Git repo?
They use SVN, and some of us have had various git forks going for some time.
I have two for example, one to patch the old Harari UI with proper font and color, and two more which package Previous for Raspberry Pi; one via Debian and one with Buildroot.
I have two for example, one to patch the old Harari UI with proper font and color, and two more which package Previous for Raspberry Pi; one via Debian and one with Buildroot.
Where would I find a version I might be able to run on NixOS?
(If I have to write a nix file to build it, that's fine as long as it's a fairly standard build process.)
(If I have to write a nix file to build it, that's fine as long as it's a fairly standard build process.)
Here are the build instructions: http://previous.alternative-system.com/index.php/build
You're not the only one.
Was expecting this to leverage QEMU
where the ROM at?
Searching Google for the quoted phrase "NeXT Inc.'s line of hardware it includes ROMs" might be helpful.
[deleted]
No one is going to point you directly at "warez", but it's really not difficult to find them yourself.
Build your own ROMs
https://github.com/itomato/NeXTROM
https://github.com/itomato/NeXTROM
Anyone out there defending NeXT ROMs? Anyway you are right... easy to find.
I got told off on here for using Amiga ROMs that I had downloaded, despite the fact I own several Amigas!
The shills for the rats that are fighting for AmigaOS rights are the worst.
They pop up in every forum.
Reminder any and all money given to these rats ends up in lawyers hands[0]. They don't even pay the developers.
0. https://sites.google.com/site/amigadocuments/
They pop up in every forum.
Reminder any and all money given to these rats ends up in lawyers hands[0]. They don't even pay the developers.
0. https://sites.google.com/site/amigadocuments/
My favorite old UNIX UIs are 4Dwm, Rhapsody, and NEXTSTEP's for sure. However I do think working in modern macOS is pretty nice; I honestly like the Ventura redesign a lot, though that may be an unpopular opinion(?).
This kind of window decoration is my favorite, too.
Modern UIs look more elegant. But I find it easier to conceptualize different contexts on my screen with thicker, embossed, brutal border indicators.
I also simply like the aesthetics for their own sake.
Modern UIs look more elegant. But I find it easier to conceptualize different contexts on my screen with thicker, embossed, brutal border indicators.
I also simply like the aesthetics for their own sake.
Worth noting that, from what I gathered, a lot of dislike towards Ventura's new UI is often less the style and more just various inconsistencies / strange behavior in their execution of it.
The new criticisms directed at Ventura are less about the style because the style criticisms date back to Big Sur and have been talked to death. The lack of contrast and the over-generous menu spacing isn’t any better today than it was in November 2020.
It’s fine except for the Settings app.
Even the Settings app is OK with me... speaking as a Mac user (almost) continuously since the original Mac Plus (although I use Linux for servers):
I really just couldn't care less about the change in the settings app. I usually typed something into the Spotlight search area to find what I wanted in the old version, and I do the same thing now. I just didn't have to change settings enough to have remembered their old locations.
I really just couldn't care less about the change in the settings app. I usually typed something into the Spotlight search area to find what I wanted in the old version, and I do the same thing now. I just didn't have to change settings enough to have remembered their old locations.
I can’t stand search in the settings app. The results are in decipherable to me. It seems like I get 15 results that have almost identical text and have to click through them to figure out which was the right one.
Part of this extends from how Apple is implementing security. There are at Lear half a dozen security and accessibility options that all hide similar app lists.
Part of this extends from how Apple is implementing security. There are at Lear half a dozen security and accessibility options that all hide similar app lists.
As a frequent iPad user, I love the new settings app in Ventura.
I can see though why long time Mac users would hate it though, it’s a massive change and it moved everything.
I can see though why long time Mac users would hate it though, it’s a massive change and it moved everything.
Do you think it's an improvement over the old one? Why?
For a user with the whole ecosystem, it is far more consistent with iPhone and iPad. From that angle it is so much better it is silly.
Having to type by poking away at an onscreen keyboard would be consistent too but we can all agree that it would suck.
I think it is. The organization isn't quite right, and definitely needs to be worked on, but I like the sidebar approach.
I do just for consistency within the overall Apple ecosystem.
The old Settings UI was nice, but it had a really bad scaling problem as more preferences were added, making it badly organized. I like the new one, better, though it did come into the world roughly and still needs work.
Mostly, though, I'm just happy that they're dog-fooding SwiftUI with it. I look forward to WWDC this year.
Mostly, though, I'm just happy that they're dog-fooding SwiftUI with it. I look forward to WWDC this year.
I like Stage Manager, it brings back the single window mode from early versions of Mac OS X and removes the need for a defaults hack to get it working.
I have not found it especially useful on my MBP, but it is a huge improvement for me on the iPad with keyboard and mouse. It feels much more natural now to have two windows open and quickly switch between apps. I used my iPad for about 80% of my work now, up from 10-15%.
I hate it with a passion. Harder to user, less accessible and intuitive.
It hurts me as the Mac is my main work tool and has been for almost 40 years. It’s hard to watch it drift into stupidity.
It hurts me as the Mac is my main work tool and has been for almost 40 years. It’s hard to watch it drift into stupidity.
agree - it is the gravitational pull of iPhone revenues
NeWS, OpenWindows, Indigo Magic Desktop, CDE, NeXTSTEP, on my case.
Nowadays I get by with XFCE when still doing Linux desktop session.
Nowadays I get by with XFCE when still doing Linux desktop session.
>However I do think working in modern macOS is pretty nice
I have hated the Mac interface from day 1, for very simple reasons:
1. I want my file-edit-windows menu on every window, not sharing the top of the screen (the whole promise of the personal computer was that I could have what I want, why can't I have this? fuck Jobs and Jony and anybody who substitutes their own preferences for yours and then claims to be a high priest)
The reason is, I have multiple app windows open, and I routinely look from one app to another, and then I look where I want to click, simultaneously moving the mouse and clic... if my app does not have the focus, the whole eye and arm movement was a wasted expensive set of motions, now i'm even forgetting what I wanted to do while figuring out where I have to go click to get the focus moved.
the icing on my UI cake is using focus-follows-mouse. I don't require it, but I like it and it is antithetical to the one-size-fits-all everybody-must-conform Apple way.
2. I want a three button mouse. period. I don't want to learn gestures, click in special places, and I don't want my different OSes to be different in ways that don't need to be. Would it really hurt Apple's feelings if I could have menus where i want them? Yeah, and if you like where Apple's menus are, why can't you have them? UX designers are so narrow in their thinking.
The whole promise of personal computers was... F J & J
I have hated the Mac interface from day 1, for very simple reasons:
1. I want my file-edit-windows menu on every window, not sharing the top of the screen (the whole promise of the personal computer was that I could have what I want, why can't I have this? fuck Jobs and Jony and anybody who substitutes their own preferences for yours and then claims to be a high priest)
The reason is, I have multiple app windows open, and I routinely look from one app to another, and then I look where I want to click, simultaneously moving the mouse and clic... if my app does not have the focus, the whole eye and arm movement was a wasted expensive set of motions, now i'm even forgetting what I wanted to do while figuring out where I have to go click to get the focus moved.
the icing on my UI cake is using focus-follows-mouse. I don't require it, but I like it and it is antithetical to the one-size-fits-all everybody-must-conform Apple way.
2. I want a three button mouse. period. I don't want to learn gestures, click in special places, and I don't want my different OSes to be different in ways that don't need to be. Would it really hurt Apple's feelings if I could have menus where i want them? Yeah, and if you like where Apple's menus are, why can't you have them? UX designers are so narrow in their thinking.
The whole promise of personal computers was... F J & J
There’s no helping with your first complaint (UI philosophy difference), but fwiw you can both have focus-follows-mouse (for either the whole OS or just Terminal, both work great) and multiple button support (I use a 4-button trackball with other fancy bits).
That said, despite being able to hack lots about the system, it would definitely be nice to have deeper modifications allowed. Alternate kinds of menus, pointers and windows would be nice, where users could experiment with new UI concepts, etc.
I personally really miss NeXTSTEP’s tear off menus, which were in early OS X builds until Aqua got rid of them.
That said, despite being able to hack lots about the system, it would definitely be nice to have deeper modifications allowed. Alternate kinds of menus, pointers and windows would be nice, where users could experiment with new UI concepts, etc.
I personally really miss NeXTSTEP’s tear off menus, which were in early OS X builds until Aqua got rid of them.
- https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace
Alas, the developer is Ukrainian, and hasn’t committed anything in a long while. But maybe someone could help out?