Windows Snipping Tool is vulnerable to Acropalypse too(twitter.com)
twitter.com
Windows Snipping Tool is vulnerable to Acropalypse too
https://twitter.com/David3141593/status/1638222624084951040
149 comments
The old .doc format was never "a dump of Word's working memory", implying copy of raw bytes. It's rather Word's internal object graph serialized into COM Structured Storage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COM_Structured_Storage), which is basically a FAT-like filesystem inside a single file. This is convenient for the app because it gets an FS-like API and can serialize data into as many "files" as is convenient, and dynamically update data inside without overwriting the entire container file every time (which, back when this all was designed in late 80s - early 90s, would be slow).
Thus the reason why you could end up with old bits of a Word document sticking around inside the .doc is the same as to why your FS has bits of deleted files: the space has been marked as free, and nothing else overwrote it yet.
But none of this applies to images, so the explanation here ought to be different.
Thus the reason why you could end up with old bits of a Word document sticking around inside the .doc is the same as to why your FS has bits of deleted files: the space has been marked as free, and nothing else overwrote it yet.
But none of this applies to images, so the explanation here ought to be different.
> The old .doc format was never "a dump of Word's working memory", implying copy of raw bytes. It's rather Word's internal object graph serialized into COM Structured Storage
Probably the "dump of Word's working memory" part emanates from Word for DOS, which predates COM by the order of a decade.
Probably the "dump of Word's working memory" part emanates from Word for DOS, which predates COM by the order of a decade.
MacWord 3.0+ (and then WinWord 1.1+) had fast-save which leaned on the in-memory piece-table data structure to write to disk only the changes to the Word document.
see https://web.archive.org/web/20160308183811/http://1017.songt...
The COM structured storage Office file format came from OLE2 (object linking and embedding - one of the mid-90s must-have features)
see https://web.archive.org/web/20160308183811/http://1017.songt...
The COM structured storage Office file format came from OLE2 (object linking and embedding - one of the mid-90s must-have features)
It's something people have been parroting ever since this Spolsky post from 2008 https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/02/19/why-are-the-micros...
This is also why "Save As..." with old Word versions would often produce files much smaller than "Save" would - it was writing a brand new, compact file which was effectively "garbage collected".
This stemmed from the fast save feature which was present from Word97 through 2003. Earlier versions didn't work that way.
Wow, COM Structured Storage. That brings back memories, but not necessarily good ones. And as for working with OLE... ouch.
It was hard on the developer, but some of the features it enabled were very impressive, like the ability to arbitrarily embed documents into other documents in a way that allows composite rendering as a single piece, without the app managing either part aware of the nature of the other. In fact, I'm not aware of any modern equivalent of this tech, not even on Windows (since Office stopped supporting embedding of its documents via OLE by third-party apps).
It feels like a lot of "things everyone knows" are slowly getting lost over time, as developers work at higher and higher levels of abstraction without deep knowledge of the layers beneath them (which is of course the whole point of abstractions, but they're never perfect)
Being a true "full stack" engineer is a superpower when it comes to performance optimisation, or vulnerability research.
Being a true "full stack" engineer is a superpower when it comes to performance optimisation, or vulnerability research.
Eh, that’s not really true. Adding abstraction allows for providing APIs that can handle cases like these correctly. For example, Apple provides a very capable versioning system for files that does “the right thing”, which in this case would create a new file for reliability.
Sure, abstractions aren't inherently evil, but bad ones are. The abstraction you described sounds like a sensible one, which couldn't have been designed without a deep understanding of the system as a whole (or at the very least, the adjacent layers).
The people writing an abstraction need to understand the system, but if done correctly the people using it don’t.
All abstractions leak. There are some physical facts about software we keep denying for some reason. There is no silver bullet. Every enterprise systems turns into a big ball of mud over time. Team structures get imprinted in the design of systems built by these teams.
And every abstraction leaks. Living on a given level without at least an accurate mental model of everything bellow it limits your ability as a developer. Sure you can just do scripting for a web dev team your whole career. If that's what you want...
And every abstraction leaks. Living on a given level without at least an accurate mental model of everything bellow it limits your ability as a developer. Sure you can just do scripting for a web dev team your whole career. If that's what you want...
Water dissolves pretty much everything too and yet we build structures that are useful even when it rains. Likewise, all software engineers get through their careers without learning most things. It’s totally fine, as long as they understand how to poke at a leaky abstraction when necessary. If atomic file renames is a performance problem for them, or it’s breaking hardlinks, or one of the several other ways that this would leak on them, then they can go learn what’s going on and update their understanding as necessary. Good abstractions aren’t watertight but rather don’t leak in unexpected and dangerous ways.
Hey some people spend a working life just painting bridges without understanding anything about structural engineering.
Your choices matter to you not to society.
Your choices matter to you not to society.
I wanted to be a programmer as a kid, but eventually found it boring and switched to administering systems.
Knowing how code works on systems IS a super power.
Knowing how code works on systems IS a super power.
> The standard procedure to overwrite a file is to save to a temporary file first
… which on the other hand has the annoying side effect of wrecking hard links.
… which on the other hand has the annoying side effect of wrecking hard links.
I think that's a positive. So you had 2 identical files but one is now changed and they automatically got decoupled!
Unless of course you wanted them to remain the same…
Unless of course you wanted them to remain the same…
Yes I did, that's why I created them! For decoupled files you'd use copy
But I don't want to waste disk space by storing the same data twice. And doing that with copies only works on a handful of filesystems, most notably BTRFS and XFS.
If you want them to remain the same, use symbolic links.
Symbolic links don't give me an easily obtainable list of all "copies" of that file, and while they might survive atomic writes, they're also vulnerable to the "main" file being renamed/moved/etc.
(Of course the thing that'd solve my actual root problem would be proper OS and file system level support for tagging, but until then it seems that there are only imperfect solutions, each with its own set of drawbacks.
I.e. third party software is not well integrated with the file explorer and the file open/save dialogues etc., and now I'm dependent on that software lest I lose all my carefully tagged data, whereas hard or symbolic link-based solutions are clunky to use and vulnerable to either atomic saves or file renaming etc.)
(Of course the thing that'd solve my actual root problem would be proper OS and file system level support for tagging, but until then it seems that there are only imperfect solutions, each with its own set of drawbacks.
I.e. third party software is not well integrated with the file explorer and the file open/save dialogues etc., and now I'm dependent on that software lest I lose all my carefully tagged data, whereas hard or symbolic link-based solutions are clunky to use and vulnerable to either atomic saves or file renaming etc.)
And various metadata!
It sounds like someone wrote fopen(name, “r+”) instead of fopen(name, “w”)
I don’t think writing to a separate file is standard procedure at all. Way more apps don’t do that than do from my anecdotal memories.
I don’t think writing to a separate file is standard procedure at all. Way more apps don’t do that than do from my anecdotal memories.
I guess it depends on how long users are expected to work on the documents/flies, and whether there is some other safety mechanism. Basically: a power outage, full disk etc. corrupting the file at save costs X hours of lost work and for some X you better make sure the app can revert to a known state via a transactional save and/or an autosave feature.
Personally I'd probably always save to a new file even if the amount of work potentially lost is negligible (as in a snipping tool). The cost of doing so is extremely small in development so that if you ever save one customer's file, you probably saved more time than it cost you to implement transactional file writing. It's a few extra lines, if you opt out of the more complex scenarios (E.g. you can't make atomic renames to move if the target is a network share).
Personally I'd probably always save to a new file even if the amount of work potentially lost is negligible (as in a snipping tool). The cost of doing so is extremely small in development so that if you ever save one customer's file, you probably saved more time than it cost you to implement transactional file writing. It's a few extra lines, if you opt out of the more complex scenarios (E.g. you can't make atomic renames to move if the target is a network share).
rename is not atomic on win32. That’s a posix-ism.
Windows 10 1607 and newer support it now if you call SetFileInformationByHandle() with FileRenameInfoEx and specify the FILE_RENAME_FLAG_POSIX_SEMANTICS flag. Not sure how commonly it's used in standard libraries, but I've seen it popping up more and more.
So, Acropalypse is “people use image snipping and markup tools to redact images, but those tools often allow the unredacted images to be recovered”? Yeah, that’s a pretty big violation of the implicit expectations of users.
To be more specific "acropalypse" refers to any image editor which does not truncate the original file before overwriting it with the edited version, leading to portions of the original being recoverable by an adversary.
It originally referred to a specific vulnerability in the Markup app found on Google Pixel devices (CVE-2023-21036), but apparently now includes other unrelated apps.
Source: It was me who came up with the name :)
It originally referred to a specific vulnerability in the Markup app found on Google Pixel devices (CVE-2023-21036), but apparently now includes other unrelated apps.
Source: It was me who came up with the name :)
Reminds me of the old Underhanded C competition where people deliberately tried to write undetectable but faulty code for image redaction: http://underhanded-c.org/_page_id_17.html
> Accidentally appending the original data to the image file. This takes advantage of the fact that many image formats ignore extra cruft at the end.
Wow, it's almost textbook
Wow, it's almost textbook
The 1st place winner for that year is still one of my favorite software programs ever
Oh, that’s actually way worse than I thought! It’s not that these apps have some kind of undo feature or are aiming for non-destructive editing, and that’s not what users expect - the apps actually are attempting to perform redaction and they’re poorly implemented.
Kudos on the name by the way, I love a good tight pun name for a vulnerability.
Kudos on the name by the way, I love a good tight pun name for a vulnerability.
I can't speak for this windows tool, but for the android image editor the editor _was_ doing the correct thing. Then the underlying IO library changed in breaking way (and diverged from other APIs using the same mode strings) to not truncate when opening existing files.
The API was (accidentally?) changed long before the Android tool was written, if I understand correctly. Depending on your point of view, that means it's either a poorly designed and documented API, an incorrect API that doesn't match the documentation, or a testing failure during development of the app.
I think the API change came after the tool was written, but not by long (it's hard to be sure, since Markup is closed-source).
Thanks
It would be interesting to see if any popular ZIP libraries have a similar issue. If you add a file that's already in the archive, for example, and the new one is larger, I could see it just sticking the new one at the end of the archive and appending a new central directory structure.
Is the periodic reencoding of the huffman tree part of DEFLATE or in the PNG are they just using a sequence of separate DEFLATE structures appended together that each have their own huffman tree? If it's the former, you might be able to recover part of a ZIP archive entry that was reduced in size and written over the original version.
Is the periodic reencoding of the huffman tree part of DEFLATE or in the PNG are they just using a sequence of separate DEFLATE structures appended together that each have their own huffman tree? If it's the former, you might be able to recover part of a ZIP archive entry that was reduced in size and written over the original version.
If you don't want to just take my word for it, there's some 3rd party confirmation and further analysis in this thread https://twitter.com/wdormann/status/1638235267919233024
I'll have a windows-compatible PoC up at some point, might wait a little bit just to mitigate the 0day-ness heh
I'll have a windows-compatible PoC up at some point, might wait a little bit just to mitigate the 0day-ness heh
Not able to reproduce this. I’m not sure if anything remains after the iend. But the file size does become smaller. I have windows 10.
Edit: tried this with snip and sketch. Also tried it with snipping tool. Fwiw, the latter results in a smaller file size.
Edit: tried this with snip and sketch. Also tried it with snipping tool. Fwiw, the latter results in a smaller file size.
win10 snipping tool is not vulnerable, but "snip and sketch" is.
> Fwiw, the latter results in a smaller file size.
Implying the former does not result in smaller file size? If so, you've reproduced the vuln.
> Fwiw, the latter results in a smaller file size.
Implying the former does not result in smaller file size? If so, you've reproduced the vuln.
Snip and Sketch sucks compared to the snipping too. It makes me very sad that they are going to take it away.
The animations are terrible and I hate that I have to click on a notification to actually open the window.
The animations are terrible and I hate that I have to click on a notification to actually open the window.
Weird. If I take a screenshot with Snip & Sketch on Win10 and save it (full.png) - then in S&S crop a small portion of it and save it (crop.png) there is a significant file size difference between full.png and crop.png.
If you save a new file with a new name, you won't trigger the bug.
This is why I have on Win11 kept my whole System32 folder, so I can use older versions of some tools before they were bloated crap.
Win10 snipping tool: From my cold, dead hands.
Win10 snipping tool: From my cold, dead hands.
Yesterday I tryed to make PDFs smaller by "save as" or "print as PDF". They just got larger each time (up to 3x larger).
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Recent and related:
Exploiting aCropalypse: Recovering truncated PNGs - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35208721 - March 2023 (71 comments)
Acropalypse: a vulnerability in Google's screenshot editing tool - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35207787 - March 2023 (44 comments)
Exploiting aCropalypse: Recovering truncated PNGs - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35208721 - March 2023 (71 comments)
Acropalypse: a vulnerability in Google's screenshot editing tool - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35207787 - March 2023 (44 comments)
Aside from looking at the file size, you can check any PNG image with pngcheck [1]:
[1] https://www.libpng.org/pub/png/apps/pngcheck.html, available in Homebrew
pngcheck good.png
OK: good.png (467x389, 32-bit RGB+alpha, non-interlaced, 88.2%).
pngcheck bad.png
bad.png additional data after IEND chunk
ERROR: bad.png
[1] https://www.libpng.org/pub/png/apps/pngcheck.html, available in Homebrew
This is beyond scary. I have no idea how my screenshots I took and cropped with Snipping Tool and send to someone: at work, at home, across multiple machines and accounts.
Keep in mind this only applies if you took the screenshot, saved, cropped it, and then saved again to the same file.
Well yeah, why would I keep an uncropped version around? It seemed safer to save over the one I didn't want.
Edit: I guess I don't usially save before cropping a screenshot. But it's not something I really thought about before either.
Edit: I guess I don't usially save before cropping a screenshot. But it's not something I really thought about before either.
sometimes I want to keep the original for my own records
Isn't that the default on Android phones if you screenshot then crop. As opposed to screenshot, then open it and crop.
I tend to use the rectangular option in the snipping tool as a way to be certain that I won't forget to crop important info. Both of these make me think I need to check my process and see if it is relevant.
I tend to use the rectangular option in the snipping tool as a way to be certain that I won't forget to crop important info. Both of these make me think I need to check my process and see if it is relevant.
It applies if you choose to "overwrite" any file that is larger than the generated PNG data.
>Keep in mind this only applies if you took the screenshot, saved, cropped it, and then saved again to the same file
Wait, don't we all do this? :looks around horrified:
Wait, don't we all do this? :looks around horrified:
My normal workflow is use snipping tool, it opens in editor, crop, save. This is for sure safe?
It seems like the problem is that if you use the snipping tool to save to a file that already exists it only modifies as much of the file as is required so that the new image you saved is visible - the rest of the file's data is preserved. The problem is saving to a file with more information than the cropped information requires - the original images information "overflow" isn't removed. So if you're saving to a new file it's fine, there's no extra information.
I am aware after reading the whole thread but still, I think I've done it countless times over the years.
My stubbornness to relearn and move away from “printscreen+winkey+r+mspaint+enter+select+Ctenophora+c” pays off. I don’t know what it is about snipping tools (and I use sharex too” but I always find myself going back to paint, as the tools feel like they get in the way.
Try alt+printscreen. It'll only capture the active window instead of your full desktop.
Our security people disabled the PrtScn key, so our only way of doing a screen shot is the snipping tool. It is very frustrating.
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I do if I want the window. Crops are something else.
I've always used "prtscn+paint" as well. I've tried various on other ways and I'll usually be like "that's kinda cool, maybe I'll try that." Next time I need a screenshot it'll already be pasted in paint far before it occurs to me "i think i forgot something, guess it wasn't important."
Snip & Sketch, not the oldstyle Snipping Tool.
Unbelievable, I can't understand how people haven't noticed that. "Wow I crop an image and it doesnt get smaller WTF???"
Man if I ran Windows 11 to think I might be the one who stumbled on this 0-day first....
Man if I ran Windows 11 to think I might be the one who stumbled on this 0-day first....
Most of the time theses images don't end up in the file system. They are going to the clipboard and then copied to a chat or imgur
But in this case it's luckily not vulnerable
Apparently Discord and probably other platforms don't remove the excess data at the end of the file. Maybe they will start doing that now. But for all the existing cropped screenshots out there, it definitely means that there is a vulnerability.
Does the system clipboard API also preserve the excess data, though?
Nope, or at least, not through any obvious paths I've ever seen, including testing just now.
Also, both discord and imgur trimmed an image I uploaded to just the image data. Slack did not, however. I certainly wouldn't want to rely on that behavior, though.
Also, both discord and imgur trimmed an image I uploaded to just the image data. Slack did not, however. I certainly wouldn't want to rely on that behavior, though.
They’ve started doing this.
> Unbelievable, I can't understand how people haven't noticed that. "Wow I crop an image and it doesnt get smaller WTF???"
Most people are not super techie computer users.
Most people are not super techie computer users.
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Yeah, it's pathetic.
Still... you don't need MOST people. You need ONE, with a blog or a youtube account. And it took how long?
Still... you don't need MOST people. You need ONE, with a blog or a youtube account. And it took how long?
Every techie person I know who deals with windows has not dared to move to windows 11 so far, so I'm not too to surprised. I looked it up and the data matches my anecdote, only 18% of windows users are on 11, almost 70% on windows 10.
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/342819-windows-11-gain...
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/342819-windows-11-gain...
The Windows 10 Snip & Sketch has the same problem though.
Compression ratios vary between different tools, I wouldn’t expect an image file size to scale at all smoothly with its resolution
Yes, but that is not going to explain how a large crop eliminating 90% of the image area is not going to shrink the filesize more than a little bit
That only matters if you check the size before and after.
(As a non web-dev, maybe, )I don't think I've cared about the file size of cropped images in the past couple years. When I crop stuff it's because I want to send it to someone, not because I'm gonna archive it or anything.
For android it was a backwards incompatible, undocumented API change [0]. For windows it just looks like the UWP API is complicated enough that you can footgun yourself. For ex OpenAsync+DataWriter would do it as the default behavior [1].
[0] https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/180526528
[1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/35842374/how-can-i-overw...
[0] https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/180526528
[1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/35842374/how-can-i-overw...
I would believe it… UWP APIs can be really complicated and over-designed sometimes.
This does not apply to the original Snipping Tool (the one that's 'moving...').
New iterations of classic Snipping Tool require more clicks and the implementation is worse too.
New iterations of classic Snipping Tool require more clicks and the implementation is worse too.
That summerises almost every update on windows 11 doesn't it?
Their image tool that we were using for video snippet is a lot worse. Hell right click context menu requires more work.
Don't get me started on minimum window sizes for some default apps.
Their image tool that we were using for video snippet is a lot worse. Hell right click context menu requires more work.
Don't get me started on minimum window sizes for some default apps.
Snipping Tool used to have this "feature" whereby any drawing performed on a screenshot would be animated as an overlay (this was only visible in the UWP Photos app at the time). Funnily enough, that's the first thing that came to mind when I heard of Acropalypse.
You need to take a screenshot, save it, crop it and then resave over the same file.
I mean it's bad, but... who does that?
EDIT: It also happens if you take a completely different screenshot and just save over (overwrite) another (bigger) image. That's worse, but still not that common IMHO.
I mean it's bad, but... who does that?
EDIT: It also happens if you take a completely different screenshot and just save over (overwrite) another (bigger) image. That's worse, but still not that common IMHO.
> who does that?
Programmers do it all day ... with text files.
Would you say the same thing if when you deleted some code it would actually still be there at the end of the file, after two pages of spaces?
When you delete something and save it in a "final" format (like a PNG), you expect nothing which was deleted to be there.
Programmers do it all day ... with text files.
Would you say the same thing if when you deleted some code it would actually still be there at the end of the file, after two pages of spaces?
When you delete something and save it in a "final" format (like a PNG), you expect nothing which was deleted to be there.
I don't think the comment was about expected behavior. It's about who would be suspetible to this. Saving text files is fine all the time, you're right. They're saying, how often do people perform the steps in that order?
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It is extremely common for me to realize I don't like the screenshot I took, and to save the replacement over the original file. It is pretty common for me to be more selective about what is in the replacement, and hence for it to be smaller than the original triggering this bug.
It's a relatively uncommon scenario, granted, but when you multiply those odds by the number of screenshots that get shared on a daily basis, it's pretty bad imho.
I would say that's the common case?
1. Take screenshot
2. Open screenshot
3. Edit screenshot
4. Save screenshot
I don't think that "Save As..." the common case.
1. Take screenshot
2. Open screenshot
3. Edit screenshot
4. Save screenshot
I don't think that "Save As..." the common case.
This would have been avoided if the PNG format (or at least one commonly used editor) required that the data filled the whole file, or rendered extra junk when there was extra data at the end.
The PNG spec actually has wording to disallow data past the end.
https://w3c.github.io/PNG-spec/#15FileConformance
"3. No chunks or other content follow the IEND chunk."
(I'm the PNG spec chair and also the person who discovered Snipping Tool is vulnerable.)
(I'm the PNG spec chair and also the person who discovered Snipping Tool is vulnerable.)
However, it also says:
> The PNG decoder has to determine whether a syntax error is fatal (unrecoverable) or not, depending on its requirements and the situation. For example, most decoders can ignore an invalid IEND
It doesn't explicitly mention what decoders should do on encountering data after IEND, but The general philosophy for decoders seems to be that errors should be handled gracefully where possible, even if the file is technically malformed (which is maybe something that could be clarified or expanded upon?)
> The PNG decoder has to determine whether a syntax error is fatal (unrecoverable) or not, depending on its requirements and the situation. For example, most decoders can ignore an invalid IEND
It doesn't explicitly mention what decoders should do on encountering data after IEND, but The general philosophy for decoders seems to be that errors should be handled gracefully where possible, even if the file is technically malformed (which is maybe something that could be clarified or expanded upon?)
Back in the olden days, when people were using protocols like Kermit and XModem to download their questionable images from BBS's, You would often get a file whose size was rounded up to the nearest block size. In that situation, failing for extra data at the end would have been a fatal move for someone implementing an image decoder, and I think PNG might be just barely old enough that the designers remembered that.
From a usability perspective, it's preferable to recover from and workaround any data stream errors rather than crash with an exception error.
Why? Because users have stuff to do. They don't know about and don't care for errors.
The most prominent example are web browsers. Browsers are supposed to crash when fed invalid HTML, and this was even mandated when XHTML was trying to replace HTML. Users fucking hated it, and XHTML crashed and burned and HTML with its error-safe handling has stayed to this day.
Why? Because users have stuff to do. They don't know about and don't care for errors.
The most prominent example are web browsers. Browsers are supposed to crash when fed invalid HTML, and this was even mandated when XHTML was trying to replace HTML. Users fucking hated it, and XHTML crashed and burned and HTML with its error-safe handling has stayed to this day.
Thanks for explaining, from a user perspective the best thing to do is definitely graceful recovery, but bugs like this highlight that there's value to the ecosystem in failing loudly whenever anything is out of spec. The appropriate balance of those behaviors is obviously a function of the nature of the ecosystem, and could be different for different tools.
I'd suggest that for PNG in particular, one reasonable behavior would be to show a little red "File corrupted!" warning or popup for these sort of out-of-spec-but-probably-recoverable issues, which would probably have been noticed and filed as a bug for the developers of these tools, even if only a small fraction of viewers had that behavior. Something like a thumbnail viewer should maybe just opt to early-abort whenever anything sketchy is going on, especially since out-of-spec behaviors can lead to security issues.
True, true. I respect it. :)
For others, Retr0id has been helping with the PNG spec. A third edition is in the works.
For others, Retr0id has been helping with the PNG spec. A third edition is in the works.
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Or, like PDF, require the file to be interpreted starting from the end.
My workflow is to press the PrintScreen -> snip&sketch opens -> draw a rectangle (two corners) -> paste where necessary.
Or alternatively press the notification -> draw something -> control+c -> close then paste.
I rarely save as file, no need, but I guess I've sometimes do it so I need to be careful.
Or alternatively press the notification -> draw something -> control+c -> close then paste.
I rarely save as file, no need, but I guess I've sometimes do it so I need to be careful.
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What's this about? I just tried the repro (Snip, save, crop, save). Nothing obvious was amiss. The file looks ok. What's the vulnerability here?
Further context: https://www.da.vidbuchanan.co.uk/blog/exploiting-acropalypse...
You should notice that the file size didn't actually get any smaller after you cropped it. The full-size image file is not truncated before the cropped version is written. The left-behind data can be recovered.
You should notice that the file size didn't actually get any smaller after you cropped it. The full-size image file is not truncated before the cropped version is written. The left-behind data can be recovered.
The root cause seem to be an open mode which opens the original file for writing without truncation, but writing to the original file directly in the first place seemed precarious. The software I use tend to write to a temporary file first and then do a rename to replace the original file.
The bit about recovering LZ77 stream without the prefix sounds very useful as a data recovery tool.
The bit about recovering LZ77 stream without the prefix sounds very useful as a data recovery tool.
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Got sent a few .PSDs (Photoshop format) and there was some artifacts which looked like they weren't intended for the recipient. Of course, this is part of the .PSD format and not a privacy issue per se. Just be careful sending .PSDs in an e-mail with stuff in them you don't want the recipient to see.
Photoshop has a checkbox to "delete cropped pixels", if unchecked using the crop tool again will show the entire original image. It also stores an undo history, so even with "delete cropped pixels" you can just undo the crop.
Wait until they find that censored parts of an image can be restored by AI.
another plus for sticking with windows 10. although not as intuitive, the old snipping tool, the screenshot only captures that area you selected.
i will let someone test the same technique on those cases but empirically i've had screenshots as little as a couple KB this way.
i will let someone test the same technique on those cases but empirically i've had screenshots as little as a couple KB this way.
Like he says on Twitter - was this deliberate? Doesn't seem like it yet, and there's no proof of it, but it's pretty scary. There's excellent plausible deniability, and the law enforcement benefits could be substantial.
I was just about to ask, "Is this still coincidence, or have we jumped straight to enemy action?"
That two different tools fail in the same, "surface level invisible" but mighty convenient, and "Whoopsie, file operations are hard!" way... raises some interesting questions.
Mostly, "What else of this nature is present in all our modern operating systems?" Because this sort of failure sure looks an awful lot like the "Underhanded C" contest from 2008: http://www.underhanded-c.org/_page_id_17.html Redact an image, while leaking a lot of information in the process to someone who "knows the trick."
> This is an excellent example of the contest’s philosophy: make the code extremely simple, innocent, obvious, and wrong.
That two different tools fail in the same, "surface level invisible" but mighty convenient, and "Whoopsie, file operations are hard!" way... raises some interesting questions.
Mostly, "What else of this nature is present in all our modern operating systems?" Because this sort of failure sure looks an awful lot like the "Underhanded C" contest from 2008: http://www.underhanded-c.org/_page_id_17.html Redact an image, while leaking a lot of information in the process to someone who "knows the trick."
> This is an excellent example of the contest’s philosophy: make the code extremely simple, innocent, obvious, and wrong.
Probably not.
Note that this is not the "Snipping tool" but the "Snip & Sketch" (win+shift+s?) Though, I'm not able to reproduce it myself.
Apparently the Windows 10 version of Snipping Tool is not vulnerable. That's the one that tells you to get Snip & Sketch.
On Windows 11, Snipping Tool is vulnerable. (And it doesn't suggest you get Snip & Sketch.)
On Windows 11, Snipping Tool is vulnerable. (And it doesn't suggest you get Snip & Sketch.)
The Windows 11 Snipping Tool is the evolution of the Windows 10 Snip & Sketch, confusingly.
The two were merged in Windows 11, reverting the newer tool to the “Snipping Tool” name of the older tool.
I can reproduce it with Snip & Sketch on Windows 10 using Save As (Ctrl+S).
I can reproduce it with Snip & Sketch on Windows 10 using Save As (Ctrl+S).
Anyone looked at any Linux cropping tools?
I just took a look at spectacle (KDE's screenshot tool, version 22.12.3) and it's not affected. It properly truncates the file when overwriting a file that already exists (after cropping or any other edit I tested). The inode number stays the same, so it's not doing the create-temp-file + rename method.
Android was playing games with the file open mode (open(file, "w") didn't overwrite and truncate), and that kind of change would be unforgivable on linux.
Also on linux you'd quickly notice something was wrong with the file sizes.
Also on linux you'd quickly notice something was wrong with the file sizes.
yet another example of stellar s engineering from yet another s engineering giant
The wordage "acropalypse" and this image chosen makes it seem like doing this is going to somehow break your computer. It is a bad vulnerability, but not that bad.
Not sure if this person is being deliberately vague/obtuse, but it's unclear if this affects you if you save each screenshot as a new file, or only if you do the strange "overwrite existing file" thing the OP did.
Overwriting existing file is strange now? This is just victim-blaming for the incompetence of software engineers. As a user there's nothing wrong with overwriting an existing file.
Calling something unusual behavior, which is unusual, is "victim blaming"? Stop tilting at windmills.
They're not being vague - they're saying a specific issue named "acropalypse" applies.
Originally acropalypse was a specific library, but the bug itself is "saving data over an existing file does not replace the existing file".
> only if you do the strange "overwrite existing file" thing the OP did
Overwriting an existing file is literally the most common case: it's what happens when you say "save" instead of "save as...".
Originally acropalypse was a specific library, but the bug itself is "saving data over an existing file does not replace the existing file".
> only if you do the strange "overwrite existing file" thing the OP did
Overwriting an existing file is literally the most common case: it's what happens when you say "save" instead of "save as...".
Saving a cropped image as an original with an edit list strikes me as a completely obvious and normal thing to do. It's an affordance that allows the user to go back and un-crop things. If you undertook a field survey you would find users who were glad for this feature and I imagine zero users who had been harmed by it.
I don't understand all the brouhaha.
I don't understand all the brouhaha.
> I don't understand all the brouhaha.
Which you should take as a "maybe I have misunderstood the issue".
This is not an edit list, or the ability to undo operations. The problem is you have an existing file ("foo.png" or whatever):
Now the assumption that writing over an existing file will truncate/erase the original file is reasonable. That's the default behavior of most file IO APIs. I don't know what the windows app is doing, but the original android bug was an API that takes a mode string copied from posix's fopen, in which "w" means "open for writing, and erase any existing file", but then later on made an undocumented change that made opening a file with "w" no longer erase existing files.
Which you should take as a "maybe I have misunderstood the issue".
This is not an edit list, or the ability to undo operations. The problem is you have an existing file ("foo.png" or whatever):
oooooooooo
nnnnn
nnnnnooooo
Now the assumption that writing over an existing file will truncate/erase the original file is reasonable. That's the default behavior of most file IO APIs. I don't know what the windows app is doing, but the original android bug was an API that takes a mode string copied from posix's fopen, in which "w" means "open for writing, and erase any existing file", but then later on made an undocumented change that made opening a file with "w" no longer erase existing files.
Thank you for describing the sounds I made when I first heard this vulnerability described to me.
That isn't what is happening in either the original bug for the Google Pixel Markup tool or this bug in the Windows Snipping Tool. What is happening is that the software is overwriting the original image with the new one, but not truncating the file, so if the new compressed image data is smaller than the old, the remainder of the old image still exists at the end of the file.
This data is not made available to the user to uncrop the data at a later time, so it provides no benefit to the user, just risk of privacy violations.
This data is not made available to the user to uncrop the data at a later time, so it provides no benefit to the user, just risk of privacy violations.
This is not an undo feature. And if it were, it wouldn't be what an end user expects out of a .png file, but rather a .psd or .xcf file.
>and I imagine zero users who had been harmed by it.
Because it's a zero day!
You can't imagine someone cropping out banking information, identifying information in anonymous contexts, confidential information?
Because it's a zero day!
You can't imagine someone cropping out banking information, identifying information in anonymous contexts, confidential information?
But why is this even happening? The standard procedure to overwrite a file is to save to a temporary file first so an error that occurs during the write won't damage the existing file. Are they really doing an in-place write and how does that affect the shadow copy if you wanted to restore the previous version of the file?