Ask HN: How can self taught developers find work?
Looking for advice on how a self taught developer with Typescript, React, and Express knowledge, but with no real world experience, can begin a path to finding a job in software development?
14 comments
As a self-taught developer who, after hundreds of applications and nearly a year of applying, I regret to inform you, and myself, that I think the self-taught developer party is over.
There was a period, for maybe the last 10+ years, and particularly during the 2 years after covid began, where if you had a pulse and could write a for loop, you were hired.
Now, after years of self-taughts piling into the boat, not only has the boat left the dock, it's so full, they're throwing people overboard as we speak.
The word got out about a minimal-training-required, six-figure, work-from-anywhere, no-risk-of-falling-off-a-ladder, bullshit job: le coding. People lapped up the available positions, hiring became streamlined to universities and degree holders, and that's that. Saturated. Party's over. Missed the boat.
You want to make money as a developer? Sell your own products. No one is hiring me, so I'm trying to hire myself now. It's a smaller ship, rough sailing, but at least I'm able to leave the dock.
There was a period, for maybe the last 10+ years, and particularly during the 2 years after covid began, where if you had a pulse and could write a for loop, you were hired.
Now, after years of self-taughts piling into the boat, not only has the boat left the dock, it's so full, they're throwing people overboard as we speak.
The word got out about a minimal-training-required, six-figure, work-from-anywhere, no-risk-of-falling-off-a-ladder, bullshit job: le coding. People lapped up the available positions, hiring became streamlined to universities and degree holders, and that's that. Saturated. Party's over. Missed the boat.
You want to make money as a developer? Sell your own products. No one is hiring me, so I'm trying to hire myself now. It's a smaller ship, rough sailing, but at least I'm able to leave the dock.
Minimal-training six figure jobs never existed. No self-taught dev is making that much in a first role. Once you start to earn the big bucks, you're likely at a point the degree doesn't matter as much. The market has always been saturated – but with mediocre material – and you'll always have to stand out regardless of your background. Yes the market is terrible now (honestly only mostly the US) but this is an industry where actual supply of talent will likely not be enough for a looong time. Just don't come for the money and hype and quit the "I learnt JS so I'm ready mentality". There's no differentiator if that's what you bring to the table.
I feel a little scared to even answer this question because I’m a “self-taught” dev in a Junior Analyst role at a small cap firm. Sometimes I feel like I’m still waiting for the other foot to drop.
Realistically, I think a lot of development outside of the really slick software stuff is happening in industries that require some other knowledge base outside of development. I went to school for an unrelated field, I learned some computational stats as part of my program but that’s about it. Everything else I learned in my down time. I eventually found a team at my company (I started in an unrelated role) to bring me on as a junior and since then it has been full-steam ahead, learn as much as possible, as quickly as possible, on the job.
My advice would be to find a field that you are interested in and try to find dev needs there. For me, it was data analysis/data science. I’m fortunate that my formal education lends itself to those fields. Were I try to my luck somewhere else I’m not sure how it would go.
Other than that, build a portfolio. Start your own website and start filling it with content (personal projects to show off your skills). Find a way to prove to potential employers that you know your stuff.
Realistically, I think a lot of development outside of the really slick software stuff is happening in industries that require some other knowledge base outside of development. I went to school for an unrelated field, I learned some computational stats as part of my program but that’s about it. Everything else I learned in my down time. I eventually found a team at my company (I started in an unrelated role) to bring me on as a junior and since then it has been full-steam ahead, learn as much as possible, as quickly as possible, on the job.
My advice would be to find a field that you are interested in and try to find dev needs there. For me, it was data analysis/data science. I’m fortunate that my formal education lends itself to those fields. Were I try to my luck somewhere else I’m not sure how it would go.
Other than that, build a portfolio. Start your own website and start filling it with content (personal projects to show off your skills). Find a way to prove to potential employers that you know your stuff.
Have a portfolio of projects that look good to non-developers. This means recruiters, hiring mangers, and HR folks.
Make sure the portfolio shows that you can see projects through to the end. I'm talking functional, hosted apps that are just a click away. Make it easy for people to see your work. Provide demo credentials if a login is required.
Write code everyday. If your GitHub has minimal or no activity then don't be surprised if you get minimal or no interest from most companies you apply to. For a self-taught junior-level person trying to break in, your Github is likely going to be reviewed before an interview. Make sure it shows you've been putting in time and effort.
I'm a self-taught career-switcher myself. I honestly think that my portfolio and green squares on Github got my foot in the door. Just build cool things you're interested in and your passion will shine through to potential employers.
Make sure the portfolio shows that you can see projects through to the end. I'm talking functional, hosted apps that are just a click away. Make it easy for people to see your work. Provide demo credentials if a login is required.
Write code everyday. If your GitHub has minimal or no activity then don't be surprised if you get minimal or no interest from most companies you apply to. For a self-taught junior-level person trying to break in, your Github is likely going to be reviewed before an interview. Make sure it shows you've been putting in time and effort.
I'm a self-taught career-switcher myself. I honestly think that my portfolio and green squares on Github got my foot in the door. Just build cool things you're interested in and your passion will shine through to potential employers.
I'm self-taught and have been at it for about 15 years. I write this being conscious of the possibility that 15 years ago this may have been easier than now. Regardless, I went the "sideways" route back then. Started in QA and moved into more and more programming heavy roles as I went. Took a few hops: QA -> [stint in freelance web dev] -> Build engineer (a lot of scripting, but I tailored the role to include more heavy programming and tools work) -> Tools engineer.
From there the doors were pretty open. I worked across core tech, engine, backend, frontend, etc. I think it's been long enough, with enough experience, that the lack of degree isn't really a factor. Once recruiters see you have a decade of shipping code, a degree isn't really at the forefront of the mind. But that initial step took some sideways maneuvering.
From there the doors were pretty open. I worked across core tech, engine, backend, frontend, etc. I think it's been long enough, with enough experience, that the lack of degree isn't really a factor. Once recruiters see you have a decade of shipping code, a degree isn't really at the forefront of the mind. But that initial step took some sideways maneuvering.
As others have said, the market right now is incredibly tough for job seekers now and especially so for junior candidates just looking to get their foot in the door. I have confidence the job market will start to get better in the near future, but who knows.
For now, start searching for roles in companies that are entry level and might write or maintain a little bit of code as part of the job description. These can be tricky to find, but can often be listed under things like support specialist, marketing operations, solution engineering, etc… and apply to as many as you can.
Even if you don’t write any code in your first role, look for opportunities to do so any chance you get.
I started out this way and tasked myself with rewriting an internal meeting tool the company had neglected. I used that experience to help sell myself to teams looking for new developers, and it’s how I got my first SWE job.
For now, start searching for roles in companies that are entry level and might write or maintain a little bit of code as part of the job description. These can be tricky to find, but can often be listed under things like support specialist, marketing operations, solution engineering, etc… and apply to as many as you can.
Even if you don’t write any code in your first role, look for opportunities to do so any chance you get.
I started out this way and tasked myself with rewriting an internal meeting tool the company had neglected. I used that experience to help sell myself to teams looking for new developers, and it’s how I got my first SWE job.
Thanks for everybody’s advice. I wasn’t expecting to just walk right in to a 6 figure job but just trying to get my foot in the door. I’d even be willing to work for free to prove myself capable. It sounds like building a portfolio on GitHub is a good place to start.
I’ll tell you what I did years ago and what I advised friends who have broken into the field. Take a dev adjacent job and after some time make an internal move. I’ve had two friends start doing software support and after 12-18 months made the jump to a dev role. Having first hand knowledge of the product you’ll be developing is a huge leg up, and companies often prefer hiring internally.
Look for junior roles and include a Github/Gitlab/side project URL on your CV. Artists have a portfolio; developers have projects.
Over time your _industry_ experience overrides the Github projects.
Over time your _industry_ experience overrides the Github projects.
What about proctologists? Do proctologists need portfolios? Do wastewater treatment plant workers? Why or why not?
[deleted]
Find local meet-ups. Put yourself out there and talk to people about what you can do and how you can help them.
What’s your background and experience?
What’s your background and experience?
Good luck. Even with a CS degree it took me months and hundreds of applications to find a job.
For me the way in was through a startup. They were not looking to pay top dollar.