REI is Laying Off 275 Employees(old.reddit.com)
old.reddit.com
REI is Laying Off 275 Employees
https://old.reddit.com/r/REI/comments/176chas/rei_is_letting_go_275_employees_today/
131 comments
So many Patagonia jackets are bought at REI and worn at companies that employ many hackers.
I wonder how common it is as a clothier of hackers. For the past few years I think I end up buying a lot of their lightweight hiking pants for travel and office work. And REI is the best store I’ve found to actually go in and check out stuff before buying.
I wonder how common it is as a clothier of hackers. For the past few years I think I end up buying a lot of their lightweight hiking pants for travel and office work. And REI is the best store I’ve found to actually go in and check out stuff before buying.
HAHAA. ;)
This is true, I did acquire some of REI's water containers and blankets when I used to vanlife. The good thing about REI is they often have good bicycle mechanics, but they're encumbered by many corporate regulations. If you're more DIY, you're probably better off going to a local bike shop who can do major things like scooter brake replacements.
Anyone not from the US: REI is a fractional employee&customer co-op, brick-and-mortar glamping mecca that also sells sporting goods, hiking gear, and Birkenstocks.
This is true, I did acquire some of REI's water containers and blankets when I used to vanlife. The good thing about REI is they often have good bicycle mechanics, but they're encumbered by many corporate regulations. If you're more DIY, you're probably better off going to a local bike shop who can do major things like scooter brake replacements.
Anyone not from the US: REI is a fractional employee&customer co-op, brick-and-mortar glamping mecca that also sells sporting goods, hiking gear, and Birkenstocks.
I would guess that it would be interesting if:
1. It's a sign that the tech layoffs are part of a more general wave of layoffs
2. Most of the layoffs were on their eCommerce platform
3. If there was a blame towards Amazon. Just as an anecdote, I recently bought a whole set of camping gear on Amazon for about a third of the price as REI (and actually for cheaper than their rental rates.) Quality might not be the same, but I don't really need anything heavy duty.
1. It's a sign that the tech layoffs are part of a more general wave of layoffs
2. Most of the layoffs were on their eCommerce platform
3. If there was a blame towards Amazon. Just as an anecdote, I recently bought a whole set of camping gear on Amazon for about a third of the price as REI (and actually for cheaper than their rental rates.) Quality might not be the same, but I don't really need anything heavy duty.
Popular outdoor equipment store in Bay Area/Silicon Valley. Chances are startup people in the valley have been to those stores.
"Real Programmers don't play tennis, or any other sport which requires you to change clothes. Mountain climbing is OK, and Real Programmers wear their climbing boots to work in case a mountain should suddenly spring up in the middle of the computer room."
https://multicians.org/thvv/realprogs.html
https://multicians.org/thvv/realprogs.html
I thought it interesting that the story broke on Reddit and was worthy to get the signal boosted by yc.
The employees being laid off are self-reporting as long-time employees that have worked their way up whatever ladder there was and have shown loyalty to the company.
Who will replace them? Chatter on the post say it may be PT workers with less experience in the company as well as in their niche.
That's unfortunate, but is a pattern we're seeing in many different companies as large and larger than REI. The outcome is not always great.
The employees being laid off are self-reporting as long-time employees that have worked their way up whatever ladder there was and have shown loyalty to the company.
Who will replace them? Chatter on the post say it may be PT workers with less experience in the company as well as in their niche.
That's unfortunate, but is a pattern we're seeing in many different companies as large and larger than REI. The outcome is not always great.
A lot of people in that sub say they are part of the layoffs. Maybe they just laid off everyone that goes to that REI subreddit.
I'd hazard a guess most employees
voluntarily on a company sub are people who've worked there a while and/or really care - so higher leveled people. And that's who they've seem to have laid off, sadly.
The note to employees indicates the layoff is only about 2% of the company’s workforce so it would appear there’s a good deal of overlap.
Wow. Interesting discussion there.
I have spent a few thousand bucks at rei over the past 10 years. I rarely if ever ask for assistance. The value add for me is the return and warranty policy, and knowing if REI sells it it's probably high quality.
The more experienced people are also the most natural and kind, where others seem less committed and less "of the hobby".
Layoffs suck. Good luck to all of them.
I have spent a few thousand bucks at rei over the past 10 years. I rarely if ever ask for assistance. The value add for me is the return and warranty policy, and knowing if REI sells it it's probably high quality.
The more experienced people are also the most natural and kind, where others seem less committed and less "of the hobby".
Layoffs suck. Good luck to all of them.
Once one is familiar enough with the brands that REI stocks and that are regarded as quality, nowadays those same brands can be bought, often for much cheaper, from other online retailers. Not with the same generous return policy, but still, it is harder for REI to compete compared to two decades ago when they were the only chain around for quality camping gear.
>nowadays those same brands can be bought, often for much cheaper, from other online retailers.
Usually MSRP is constant across retailers. Is there an example you can easily bring up? If there's a price for an item that's too good to be true, it's usually a scam website.
Usually MSRP is constant across retailers. Is there an example you can easily bring up? If there's a price for an item that's too good to be true, it's usually a scam website.
Different online retailers do sales at different times and with different degrees of discount, so if REI is selling an item at MSRP, it could be that a customer can save a great deal by judiciously searching the competition and getting the item from somewhere else. Moreover, when I last shopped heavily from REI a decade ago, it was often claimed in the outdoor community that its prices were inevitably higher than other retailers, but one would enjoy the better return policy, and there was hope of getting money back through the co-op program.
That is interesting anecdote and hearsay, but I was looking for an example. I'm not saying you're wrong, but is there somewhere else I should shop?
Do remember Amazon is getting in deep water for all sorts of things that basically boil down to price fixing, so there are many factors at play for MSRP being solid across the board.
Do remember Amazon is getting in deep water for all sorts of things that basically boil down to price fixing, so there are many factors at play for MSRP being solid across the board.
So from the EU I cannot access at present the website of Moosejaw, one of REI’s major competitors, but I am sure that if you compare prices of gear between the two over time, one will be cheaper than the other when it has a sale at less than MSRP. Comparing prices across retailers and buying during limited-time sales is online shopping 101.
A gallon canister of Coleman fuel is $19 at REI, and $14.98 at Wal-Mart.
A gallon canister of Coleman fuel is $19 at REI, and $14.98 at Wal-Mart.
A Canadian company in the same space, Mountain Equipment Co-Op, was recently acquired by a hedge fund and is in the process of mutating into a for-profit company, to the dismay of many.
https://www.outsideonline.com/business-journal/retailers/mec...
Is REI being zombified the same way?
https://www.outsideonline.com/business-journal/retailers/mec...
Is REI being zombified the same way?
A co-op being acquired by a hedge fund should not be possible. What the hell?
Why not? A co-op is just a business owned by it's members. If the members decide to sell (through the board of directors), they it gets sold.
"yesterday a unanimous decision by its board of directors to sell substantially all of its assets to Kingswood Capital Management"
"yesterday a unanimous decision by its board of directors to sell substantially all of its assets to Kingswood Capital Management"
Wow, that link indicates that members likely won’t get anything, even their $5 share, back. So who is benefitting from the sale?
> The struggling Canadian retailer…
> the elimination of the co-op structure is “needed to ensure a stable future for MEC’s retail business.” In 2019, the retailer lost a reported $11.487 million on annual sales of $462 million, a slide that capped years of disappointing performance for the company
> In the end, however, the board concluded that the only realistic path forward was a sale to Kingswood.
Doesn’t sound like there were a lot of bidders clamoring to take it over. Holders of $5 shares may have had a realistic option to get $0 by not selling or $0 by selling.
> the elimination of the co-op structure is “needed to ensure a stable future for MEC’s retail business.” In 2019, the retailer lost a reported $11.487 million on annual sales of $462 million, a slide that capped years of disappointing performance for the company
> In the end, however, the board concluded that the only realistic path forward was a sale to Kingswood.
Doesn’t sound like there were a lot of bidders clamoring to take it over. Holders of $5 shares may have had a realistic option to get $0 by not selling or $0 by selling.
Obviously the board of directors.
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Darn. I have always appreciated MEC...
From what i can tell, MEC is generally doing better after being acquired (and IIRC shutting down some stores). before bankruptcy, their own-brand products were seriously dipping in quality and the stores seemed to be shifting more towards premium athlesiure rather than proper outdoor gear.
post bankruptcy they're rebuilding their own-label stuff, and at least in calgary there seems to be more staff in the store and the product mix is shifting back towards stuff i can't find in other local stores.
post bankruptcy they're rebuilding their own-label stuff, and at least in calgary there seems to be more staff in the store and the product mix is shifting back towards stuff i can't find in other local stores.
Same, dang
Obviously this sucks for those impacted, but it’s a relatively small cut (2% of employees). I wouldn’t necessarily read a major culture change at REI from this alone. It seems to be business-as-usual for a company operating at a modest loss in a high interest rate environment.
I have mixed feelings here. I’m a longtime REI shopper and I personally haven’t ever interacted with a “team lead” (role laid off). I mostly order online and sometimes browse their used gear section while in store. I rarely talk to the employees, and to be honest the ones at my store seem kind of annoyed most of the time.
On the other hand laying off senior team members is a speedrun nuke of employee morale. You’re taking a place where people thought they could work for years and basically showing them there’ll be no career progression.
I have mixed feelings here. I’m a longtime REI shopper and I personally haven’t ever interacted with a “team lead” (role laid off). I mostly order online and sometimes browse their used gear section while in store. I rarely talk to the employees, and to be honest the ones at my store seem kind of annoyed most of the time.
On the other hand laying off senior team members is a speedrun nuke of employee morale. You’re taking a place where people thought they could work for years and basically showing them there’ll be no career progression.
REI had a number of layoffs during COVID as well. I recall this, because I failed to secure a position there, when interviewing for a number of companies...and then they there was a massive REI layoff. I landed in a much better place, imo.
I'm not saying this is the cause of the layoffs, but recently REI instigated a no bags policy (or at least mine did). This isn't the standard buy bags for 10 cents at the register, there quite literally are no bags for sale, unless you decide to buy a backpack.
However, their website gives free shipping for $50 and is the same price as in store. One of the most insane and obviously virtue signaling policies I've ever seen.
I haven't bothered going in person since, and often these stores live off getting you to buy things you don't need when you go in person.
However, their website gives free shipping for $50 and is the same price as in store. One of the most insane and obviously virtue signaling policies I've ever seen.
I haven't bothered going in person since, and often these stores live off getting you to buy things you don't need when you go in person.
I live in Europe and haven't received a bag from a store in years. Recently visited the USA and they were being foisted on me left and right.
I submit that people will adjust to this, I sure have, and that the real solution is for more stores to do it so that it seems normal.
I submit that people will adjust to this, I sure have, and that the real solution is for more stores to do it so that it seems normal.
This became policy in my province for the last few years. The downside has been the dwindling supply of free bags into which I can scoop cat poop.
I use cheap diaper bags from Amazon for that. They come in packs of like 100 and are very thin plastic, which I like because it ‘feels’ less wasteful even though it probably makes 0 difference.
After an initial adjustment period overall I’ve been happy with NY’s law change on plastic bags at the grocery store. It always bugged me a little bit that we feel the need to put something like a single bag of chips into another bag when you buy it (real thing I witnessed plenty).
After an initial adjustment period overall I’ve been happy with NY’s law change on plastic bags at the grocery store. It always bugged me a little bit that we feel the need to put something like a single bag of chips into another bag when you buy it (real thing I witnessed plenty).
Try some of those dog poop bags used while dog walking?
Those are actually long narrow tubes -- designed so that you can stick your hand in it like sort of like a glove to use to pick up the pieces, and then turn inside out. That makes the opening too narrow for the cat scoop and not enough room to put the wet chunks of cat litter (unless you scoop everything in a separate container, break it up, then poor it into the bag).
My compromise has been using produce bags that you put individual fruits and veggies into.
When I was in Greece a few years ago, I noticed every store had plastic bags (and no paper bags). There's no charge for them also, and they're much sturdier than the plastic bags you sometimes still find in Canada/U.S.
Some places in the USA banned single use plastic bags, so the end result is you get these hardware-store thickness plastic bags now.
At least you can use them to store nails, I guess.
At least you can use them to store nails, I guess.
How is it virtue signaling? They can either ship their products from one warehouse to their stores, then you drive and pick up your item. Or they can just ship it directly to you which presumably means the item travelled the same distance? Unless you live walking distance from REI?
I think the idea is that you can't buy a bag to take your purchases home, but the store will gladly use a box to ship them if you shop online.
Wasteful reference: x bags for customers, y boxes online, x + y = z
Virtue signaling example: x bags received and delivered directly to landfill instead of to customer at checkout, y boxes online, x + y = z
Apparent reality: 0 bags received, y boxes online, 0 + y = y
If y is significantly less than z, we are forced to discard the claim of virtue signaling given that a measurable reduction in overall waste is a measurable reduction in overall waste.
Virtue signaling example: x bags received and delivered directly to landfill instead of to customer at checkout, y boxes online, x + y = z
Apparent reality: 0 bags received, y boxes online, 0 + y = y
If y is significantly less than z, we are forced to discard the claim of virtue signaling given that a measurable reduction in overall waste is a measurable reduction in overall waste.
Instead of picking it up at the store, especially if it's more than 2 items, it'd literally be more convenient to pull out my phone and buy the items. If there's a line of even a few people, it's likely even faster.
Not to mention shipping large orders is probably cheaper for them than hiring cashiers, and all the other expenses of a real store.
I ordered something shipped to store at REI. No joke the guy pulls it out of a cardboard box, same as what would have just been mailed to me.
in store pickup doesn't necessarily mean less materials.
in store pickup doesn't necessarily mean less materials.
You know,its funny, the most shocking part of this story to me is that most people still live in places where buying a bag at a register for 10 cents is an option at any store.
Where i grew up this has been banned for more than a decade.
Where i grew up this has been banned for more than a decade.
The no bag policy is a step toward REI’s 0 carbon footprint/good environmental citizen goal. It's not meant to have a direct impact the on bottom bottom line. You can always buy a cheap reusable bag at checkout. It won’t be plastic or paper.
Since (IIUC from Wikipedia) REI is a member-owned co-op that elects the board of directors, does this decision to do layoffs reflect the interests of the members?
> Board candidates are selected by the REI Board Nomination and Governance Committee. In earlier years, board elections were competitive elections, with both board-nominated and self-nominated petition candidates. In recent years, REI eliminated the opportunity for petition candidates and has nominated only as many candidates as open positions.
Emphasis mine. Sounds like OfSanguineFire's comment is right. The Governance committee decides how the company is run and members don't have a choice of candidates besides rejecting them.
From Wikpedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REI
Emphasis mine. Sounds like OfSanguineFire's comment is right. The Governance committee decides how the company is run and members don't have a choice of candidates besides rejecting them.
From Wikpedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REI
The juxtaposition of these two sentences sounds like a hint at a connection between the two:
> While the board serves at the members' pleasure, there is no path to board membership without the approval of the Board Nomination and Governance Committee.[30] For 2014, its chief executive officer received compensation of approximately $2.71 million per year.[31][32]
> While the board serves at the members' pleasure, there is no path to board membership without the approval of the Board Nomination and Governance Committee.[30] For 2014, its chief executive officer received compensation of approximately $2.71 million per year.[31][32]
> The Governance committee decides how the company is run and members don't have a choice of candidates besides rejecting them.
And if they are rejected, then the board appoints a temporary board member to fill the opening, with no membership input.
And if they are rejected, then the board appoints a temporary board member to fill the opening, with no membership input.
(:
REI has been a co-op in name only for a number of years now.
At least a decade IMO.
Serious question - what is REI?
I know there are all of these sporting goods stores, but it’s supposedly a co-op owned by the members, of which a sizable population of this country are, yet the board is not in any meaningful way elected or nominated by the membership.
REI is a really interesting company. Kinda seems like someone stole a co-op a while back.
I know there are all of these sporting goods stores, but it’s supposedly a co-op owned by the members, of which a sizable population of this country are, yet the board is not in any meaningful way elected or nominated by the membership.
REI is a really interesting company. Kinda seems like someone stole a co-op a while back.
The REI legal entity is indeed still a member owned cooperative. But there are so many members today that there isn’t any practical control that any individual can exercise. That said, if you are a member then you have a vote for the board members.
You can read about the election process here: https://www.rei.com/about-rei/board-election-process
You can read about the election process here: https://www.rei.com/about-rei/board-election-process
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The outdoor industry as a whole had a covid boom and upped production/orders. Now it seems a lot of those sales were in a way borrowed from the future and they have a ton of inventory and lagging sales.
For context, REI employs 15,000 people at ~175 locations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REI
Will the member rebate be given this year? I would gladly forgo mine.
What is REI?
Large outdoor goods retail chain in the form of a co-op. They're known for having a very open return policy as well as cash back to anyone who joins their cheap membership things.
(Naturally, they're not perfect -- so they're known for putting small shops out of business when they arrive and for becoming more faceless to some of their employees as they grow.)
(Naturally, they're not perfect -- so they're known for putting small shops out of business when they arrive and for becoming more faceless to some of their employees as they grow.)
> They're known for having a very open return policy
Since 2013 it appears to be a one-year return policy. That's shorter than the warranty on most of their clothing brands (basically "forever" excepting long underwear), and about equal to warranty on most of their footwear brands.
For "vectorizing" returns-- e.g., dealing with multiple pieces of clothing/gear-- it's probably quite convenient to be able to return a bunch of stuff at once to an REI physical location.
For a single item exchanges or replacements, it's probably just as easy going through the vendor's warranty form on their website. In fact, most of those companies have stellar customer service on the phone.
And I do mean stellar. Like, imagine the exact opposite of Gmail's tech support. Honestly, if you have a broken zipper on a recent Patagonia jacket or a cracked buckle on an Osprey pack, call their customer support and enjoy the maximally productive humane conversation with someone who is truly interested in helping you, the customer of their company. It may restore your faith in humanity (though potentially at the risk of making you question your line of work in ad tech, so be warned...)
Since 2013 it appears to be a one-year return policy. That's shorter than the warranty on most of their clothing brands (basically "forever" excepting long underwear), and about equal to warranty on most of their footwear brands.
For "vectorizing" returns-- e.g., dealing with multiple pieces of clothing/gear-- it's probably quite convenient to be able to return a bunch of stuff at once to an REI physical location.
For a single item exchanges or replacements, it's probably just as easy going through the vendor's warranty form on their website. In fact, most of those companies have stellar customer service on the phone.
And I do mean stellar. Like, imagine the exact opposite of Gmail's tech support. Honestly, if you have a broken zipper on a recent Patagonia jacket or a cracked buckle on an Osprey pack, call their customer support and enjoy the maximally productive humane conversation with someone who is truly interested in helping you, the customer of their company. It may restore your faith in humanity (though potentially at the risk of making you question your line of work in ad tech, so be warned...)
> They're known for having a very open return policy
Sadly not so much. Now it’s a one year limited warranty and I’ve been hassled about returning things because they ended up not fitting right.
They used to be great and would take anything back for any reason. And this always led to me buying tons more stuff.
With the new policy, I buy much less. Especially since the REI brand is pretty low quality now and no one supports it other than REI during that year.
Sadly not so much. Now it’s a one year limited warranty and I’ve been hassled about returning things because they ended up not fitting right.
They used to be great and would take anything back for any reason. And this always led to me buying tons more stuff.
With the new policy, I buy much less. Especially since the REI brand is pretty low quality now and no one supports it other than REI during that year.
With the old returns policy, people were buying boots, wearing them out on the Appalachian Trail, and then returning them. Or buying a whole touring bike (REI sold their own fairly respectable model called the Novara), riding coast-to-coast, and then returning it. Once the internet era arrived and customers learned just what behavior they could get away with, the community was saying it was only a matter of time before REI would tighten their returns policy.
I’m a long time REI customer/member, maybe 20 years, and I was pretty happy about the move to a shorter return period. I always considered it my responsibility as a good citizen to be as honest and forthright as possible in return transactions. If something didn’t work out I didn’t feel bad returning it within reason, but if I had used it too long (like 2-3 years or put serious wear on it) I would not return it out of principle. I didn’t want to take advantage of such a good policy, and I knew they’d have my back if I ever did have a long term return.
But then I had a person who worked there in my friend group at one point and they told me the same stories you did. Just people absolutely abusing the heck out of it, taking maximum advantage for personal gain. Doing things like buying kids shoes then returning them when the kid outgrew them.
This behavior is highly unethical in my opinion, even though it was technically legal and within policy. So I was happy when they made the change to 1 year returns. I had rarely, rarely had long term returns like that and took them very seriously. In one case, for example, I had a tent for the summer that I never got around to using. Used it about 1.5 years later for the first time and quickly realized it didn’t work for my needs so reluctantly returned it after one use.
Anyways, people are awful.
But then I had a person who worked there in my friend group at one point and they told me the same stories you did. Just people absolutely abusing the heck out of it, taking maximum advantage for personal gain. Doing things like buying kids shoes then returning them when the kid outgrew them.
This behavior is highly unethical in my opinion, even though it was technically legal and within policy. So I was happy when they made the change to 1 year returns. I had rarely, rarely had long term returns like that and took them very seriously. In one case, for example, I had a tent for the summer that I never got around to using. Used it about 1.5 years later for the first time and quickly realized it didn’t work for my needs so reluctantly returned it after one use.
Anyways, people are awful.
According to an article around the time of the policy change, people were even buying cliff bars and returning the wrappers for a refund, saying "I wasn't satisfied." It wasn't just young or broke people either, the CEO said they were looking at demographics and it was all over the place, just an all around increase in abusive returns. As usual, the internet and social media is a likely culprit.
Can't have nice things, dang it.
Can't have nice things, dang it.
I don’t know how frequently those things happened.
But I had the zipper break on my duffel bag after about 5 years and they told me they wouldn’t help. This wasn’t a crazy drop or mishandled, it was just some defect that caused the zipper to pop off one side when it shouldn’t.
I’m never buying anything from their line again. Had I gotten a Patagonia duffel, they would fix a zipper decades later.
But I had the zipper break on my duffel bag after about 5 years and they told me they wouldn’t help. This wasn’t a crazy drop or mishandled, it was just some defect that caused the zipper to pop off one side when it shouldn’t.
I’m never buying anything from their line again. Had I gotten a Patagonia duffel, they would fix a zipper decades later.
I blew out a shoulder strap in a Patagonia bag because I loaded it down with _way_ too much gear. A store of theirs sent it in to repair, and the repair person told me to pick a size of the new model because they couldn't repair the damage I caused. All shipping was covered by Patagonia.
Patagonia is drastically more expensive than REI gear, but included in the higher quality is a better return/repair policy and ethical manufacturing standards. REI is competing on price, not those standards.
Patagonia is drastically more expensive than REI gear, but included in the higher quality is a better return/repair policy and ethical manufacturing standards. REI is competing on price, not those standards.
Also there were those amazing garage sales, I have always stocked up on high quality hiking boots, almost new, with like 80%-90% discount. Thi was like 10 years ago, now I think they have a section and it's not anywhere as good in both selection and prices.
They discontinued Garage Sales during Covid. I enjoyed those as well, usually meant waiting in line early in the morning with a bunch of other die hards to rush in and hope they had the item we wanted! The new sections aren’t as good, but I think that’s because things trickle in and so you have to get lucky to happen to be there when something particularly good for you gets put out, which is less reliable than hanging out for a few hours on a particular day before the store opened.
REI stands for Recreational Equipment, Inc. (https://www.rei.com/) Unless that was a rhetorical question.
A very popular outdoor gear outfitter (camping, hiking, etc) in the US.
Mid to high end sporting goods.
Canadian version of MEC.
It’s a random clothing store.
/shrug
Not tech related.
/shrug
Not tech related.
I don’t understand a lot of the comments there in that thread. People with 4 years there acting like they are old time employees that are immune to layoffs? I feel bad for anyone laid off, but is this how we think about long tenure at a company now?
Average tenure at an American company is 2.5 years. 4 years is tenured.
we are talking about a retail store here. A few months is good retention. Ironically, the ones who have been there 5 years are probably worse than those at 1 year.
Ooof...that's a bummer. OP should forward the reddit thread to the Seattle Times.
Consumer spending is getting hit hard and luxury campgear is easy to forego.
Consumer spending is up, rising faster than inflation. Although it is growing more slowly than before.
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/consumer-packaged-goods/...
It's a small upward movement in a larger downward trend.
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/consumer-packaged-goods/...
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/consumer-packaged-goods/...
The large decline is from 30% growth to 2%.
30% is insane post COVID bubble.
2% is normal growth
We are going back to normal. Maybe REI hired for the insane bubble continuing?
We are going back to normal. Maybe REI hired for the insane bubble continuing?
Looking at their consolidated annual report dated Dec 31 2022, it does not appear that revenue was an issue. But cost of goods and opex for salaries and G&A were way up, 20%+. Do you have more recent information about their top line or are you speculating?
Especially when people bought huge amounts of it during the pandemic.
I assume the pandemic’s rush for outdoor entertainment has also fully subsided.
You don't even really need gear to camp either.
I'm curious about this opinion, and I don't want to make a snarky joke. Can you elaborate how you camp without needing any gear?
Steve Wallis is one of my favorite YouTubers lately, and his whole schtick at first was camping with cheap and unconventional gear.
Ten bucks of blankets from the thrift store, no tent, for instance. (The blanket fort remains one of my all-time favorite episodes.) Or a tarp and some straps from the hardware store. Or those $0.99 mylar "survival tent" things, what's the experience in one of those actually like? Another classic is the "can you make a tent from bubble wrap and survive in it in the dead of Canadian winter?"... No spoilers, but it's hilarious.
I forget which episode he explains it in, but the idea was that he was sick of seeing all the glamping channels with expensive gear in exotic locations, and their implication that camping and being out in nature was somehow a luxury for the rich, when it should be, no, it IS, everyone's to enjoy.
From there, his focus grew to the locations themselves. Opposite of exotic. Downright silly. Behind billboards, in a storm drain culvert, in the landscaping in the middle of a suburban roundabout... Not only can you camp without gear, you don't need a campground either.
Ten bucks of blankets from the thrift store, no tent, for instance. (The blanket fort remains one of my all-time favorite episodes.) Or a tarp and some straps from the hardware store. Or those $0.99 mylar "survival tent" things, what's the experience in one of those actually like? Another classic is the "can you make a tent from bubble wrap and survive in it in the dead of Canadian winter?"... No spoilers, but it's hilarious.
I forget which episode he explains it in, but the idea was that he was sick of seeing all the glamping channels with expensive gear in exotic locations, and their implication that camping and being out in nature was somehow a luxury for the rich, when it should be, no, it IS, everyone's to enjoy.
From there, his focus grew to the locations themselves. Opposite of exotic. Downright silly. Behind billboards, in a storm drain culvert, in the landscaping in the middle of a suburban roundabout... Not only can you camp without gear, you don't need a campground either.
“Ultralight” backpacking favors skills rather than gear. Folks have done entire 3k mile thru hikes with 5lbs of gear. The main way you get that low is simply by not taking much with you. You carry only the essentials. I don’t know if this is what the parent poster was referring to but it’s what my mind went to.
In my experience, the ultralight gear is the most expensive of all
This seems quite misleading. Generally, lighter gear costs more, for one thing. Second, going by the shopping list posted below about someone making it at just over 5 lbs, that works fine if you never go into high altitude or anywhere with very bad weather, but you're going to need more if you do. Also, it's listing "0.14 lbs" of food and water, which is obvious bullshit. That's only showing the weight of the containers. You can't actually live very long off of 10 grams of water and 20 calories of food and you're not going to get by not carrying any unless you're both following a river the entire way and you're a hell of a hunter, but also apparently not carrying any hunting equipment.
When people talk about weight in this context, they really mean "base weight" not including consumables or worn clothing/shoes. The general rule of thumb is about 1lb/500g of food per day.
5lbs of gear is 5lbs of gear. And this seems like an extreme example - have you done 3k mile thru hikes on 5lbs of gear? What does that look like?
When I hiked the AT, my backpack was a previous year's model (2006 Camelbak Cloudwalker, I think) that I bought for $35. It's smaller than most daypacks. In fact, it's still the daypack I usually use but sometimes it is too small for day hikes, like in winter.
I used a summer sleeping bag that was 14 oz after I cut the zipper off (Marmot Pounder, which I wish they still made).
I had a "blue foam" sleeping pad that was cut down to size, which is extremely cheap and light. I now opt for much heavier sleeping pads. When cowboy camping along the AT you do not need much of a sleeping pad because you'll likely be on top of leaves, but on a shelter floor it's not enough.
For shelter, I just had a 6 oz sil tarp for when an AT shelter was full and I expected rain. I set up the tarp exactly once, and it didn't rain anyways.
My spare clothes were a spare pair of socks, a fleece shirt, fleece gloves, and a fleece beanie. None of those were expensive. I had a $0.99 plastic poncho for rain gear.
I did not cook, so no cooking gear. I had a digital camera which I barely used. And then just small stuff like toothbrush, water treatment drops, etc.
My base pack weight was like 6 lbs and change, and I had a tarp and camera I wasn't really using.
So, yeah, you can hike extremely light and not spend a lot of money. It depends on what trip you are doing. I started very late in the season, so the weather was warmer and shelters were not full.
I used a summer sleeping bag that was 14 oz after I cut the zipper off (Marmot Pounder, which I wish they still made).
I had a "blue foam" sleeping pad that was cut down to size, which is extremely cheap and light. I now opt for much heavier sleeping pads. When cowboy camping along the AT you do not need much of a sleeping pad because you'll likely be on top of leaves, but on a shelter floor it's not enough.
For shelter, I just had a 6 oz sil tarp for when an AT shelter was full and I expected rain. I set up the tarp exactly once, and it didn't rain anyways.
My spare clothes were a spare pair of socks, a fleece shirt, fleece gloves, and a fleece beanie. None of those were expensive. I had a $0.99 plastic poncho for rain gear.
I did not cook, so no cooking gear. I had a digital camera which I barely used. And then just small stuff like toothbrush, water treatment drops, etc.
My base pack weight was like 6 lbs and change, and I had a tarp and camera I wasn't really using.
So, yeah, you can hike extremely light and not spend a lot of money. It depends on what trip you are doing. I started very late in the season, so the weather was warmer and shelters were not full.
How did you eat
I'm not sure specifically what you want to know.
I resupplied food in towns along the way. And while in town, I had a hot meal there. Also consider that resupplying is often not done in an actual town, but in a convenience store or whatever is closest to the trail.
Backpackers typically only cook dinner, and those get repetitive, so forgoing those with the added benefit of not carrying a stove, fuel, and a pot is sometimes nice. Some people find it wearisome to not have at least one hot meal a day.
Of course, I have done countless backpacking trips and have cooked on most of them.
I resupplied food in towns along the way. And while in town, I had a hot meal there. Also consider that resupplying is often not done in an actual town, but in a convenience store or whatever is closest to the trail.
Backpackers typically only cook dinner, and those get repetitive, so forgoing those with the added benefit of not carrying a stove, fuel, and a pot is sometimes nice. Some people find it wearisome to not have at least one hot meal a day.
Of course, I have done countless backpacking trips and have cooked on most of them.
5.87 lbs: https://lighterpack.com/r/89huvt
Sure is cheap, but I don't think the weight is correct. For example, the tent in this 880 grams alone (almost 2lbs). The sleeping bag/quilt is 626 grams, or around 1.6 lbs. The backpack is 765 grams or 1.7lbs. So that's 5.3lbs for just those three things. I'm assuming the price of an entire kit will also be more.
We haven't even gotten to clothes.
We haven't even gotten to clothes.
If you’re thru hiking across the entire country with 5 lbs of gear you’re either fully van-supported or have done a massive number of food drops to prep. This is something only .001% of backpackers do. It is not remotely common.
Edit, to add: or you’re not counting all the gear your pack animal is carrying.
Edit, to add: or you’re not counting all the gear your pack animal is carrying.
You should be carrying more than 5 lbs of emergency water on anything more than day camping... yes finding water is a skill, but one that is dependent on there being water nearby.
>You should be carrying more than 5 lbs of emergency water on anything more than day camping
Sure, if you really are in the wilderness. But if, like so many of the weight weenies interested in UL gear, you are hiking a well-trodden trail where water stops are frequent and well-mapped, no one is going to lug that weight until the end of the day when they might fill up for cooking with.
Sure, if you really are in the wilderness. But if, like so many of the weight weenies interested in UL gear, you are hiking a well-trodden trail where water stops are frequent and well-mapped, no one is going to lug that weight until the end of the day when they might fill up for cooking with.
What special gear do you need? For clothing gym clothes work fine, I already have a backpack, a cheap water bottle, etc. For shelter you can car camp, or if it's viable in your area you can cowboy camp with a cheap tarp and quilt. You don't need to over think things, it's not like you're trying to climb Everest.
How socialist is REI really? Are they like Mondragon? Seems not — workers do not own the company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REI_worker_organization
I like experiments in having employees actually own companies, or make their own decisions, but the closest I see in the consumer facing sector is stuff like REI or Valve software maybe — and that is only at the pleasure of its actual owners.
By contrast, HOAs and housing cooperatives like Mitchell-Lama, or credit unions, are truly owned by their members. A growint number of DAOs online are as well.
Most universities have an element of democratic governance as well.
Other than that, most other concerns is owned by outside shareholders, with some shares often traded on a public stock market, but the ones who call the shots are the same people who sit on each other’s boards and lobby Congress etc.
I like experiments in having employees actually own companies, or make their own decisions, but the closest I see in the consumer facing sector is stuff like REI or Valve software maybe — and that is only at the pleasure of its actual owners.
By contrast, HOAs and housing cooperatives like Mitchell-Lama, or credit unions, are truly owned by their members. A growint number of DAOs online are as well.
Most universities have an element of democratic governance as well.
Other than that, most other concerns is owned by outside shareholders, with some shares often traded on a public stock market, but the ones who call the shots are the same people who sit on each other’s boards and lobby Congress etc.
The whole co-op part of REI has always felt weird and forced and then when they started union busting it became clear they didn’t actually give a fuck about that part of themselves.
Unfortunately there's nothing amiss here: it's inherently in the interests of the consumers who own the co-op to exploit the workers who work there.
I guess that’s true :/
Of course I know it is a consumer co-op as a member but for some reason I’d always thought about it as pro worker because I associate “co-op” generally with the labor movement. Worker co-ops would be of course but that’s not the case here.
Of course I know it is a consumer co-op as a member but for some reason I’d always thought about it as pro worker because I associate “co-op” generally with the labor movement. Worker co-ops would be of course but that’s not the case here.
That's the whole scam
They use the good name of a COOP to get people to think that they are a good organization, when in fact they are just like every other blood sucking corporation out there - but worse cause they hide their intentions.
They use the good name of a COOP to get people to think that they are a good organization, when in fact they are just like every other blood sucking corporation out there - but worse cause they hide their intentions.
They might call themselves REI "co-op", but a consumers' cooperative is really the polar opposite of representing the interests of workers. It's really just a shareholder owned company with a few steps removed in the middle.
In practice, the “co-op” stuff really just amounts to a run of the mill rewards program. I can’t tell any actual difference between it and various other “loyalty program” thingies, aside from that they force you to join it to buy anything from them.
This is how I’ve felt about it. I’m a member and I had no idea you can vote for board members, that never came up during the pitch to sign up. It was all about the member-only sales events and cash back rewards.
Members can vote on the board of directors.
I doubt anyone really cares, and it's not open nominations.
I doubt anyone really cares, and it's not open nominations.
The difference is that the company is actually owned by the co-op members, so it’s a co-op and not a rewards program.
I don’t get any money out of it unless I buy stuff. And it’s never anywhere near how much I spent. And I’m pretty sure it’s store credit (I can’t recall for sure, been a while). So.
I thought you were wrong about cash back being not an option, but that changed this year:
https://www.rei.com/help?a=Can-I-receive-my-Total-REI-Reward...
That's pretty lame.
https://www.rei.com/help?a=Can-I-receive-my-Total-REI-Reward...
That's pretty lame.
You'll definitely get asked about it, but there is absolutely no requirement to join to buy anything from REI.
It's a $30 fee for lifetime discounts. A co-op by way of self description rather than by cooperation.
Until very recently it was $20. Now, every new member has $5 donated from REI to their "action fund" which the member cannot choose what cause that supports. This effectively means that $5 of every membership goes to the action fund. And the majority of that money does not go to nature conservation like you might assume.
I think a membership co-op that is run to benefit its members should lower the fee by $5 or at least let them choose where the $5 goes.
I think a membership co-op that is run to benefit its members should lower the fee by $5 or at least let them choose where the $5 goes.
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Not even close, labor isn't protected here at all so it's a total misnomer
It's a CONSUMERS CO-OP, has nothing to do with real labor organizing
It's capitalism's attempt at providing security to consumers (rather than simply landlords) against producers and laborers.
It's a CONSUMERS CO-OP, has nothing to do with real labor organizing
It's capitalism's attempt at providing security to consumers (rather than simply landlords) against producers and laborers.
There are unionized REI stores, it's just not universal across the chain.
Mondragon is a worker co-op. REI is a consumer co-op.
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I bought a duffel bag at REI a few weeks ago, and there were visible unionization efforts going on in the store. The tension between the employees and the managers was obvious.
What's the interesting angle of this story?