Endgame: A dashboard exploit for the original Xbox(github.com)
github.com
Endgame: A dashboard exploit for the original Xbox
https://github.com/XboxDev/endgame-exploit
119 comments
> In many ways I think it is really quite sad that we're at a point where blown e-fuses, encrypted everything and properly done public/private key crypto means that it's entirely possible that next generation of consoles really might actually be unhackable
Pirates will always find a way, the Nintendo Switch had all the countermeasures you mentioned, the latest revisions also have a patched bootloader but someone figured out that they could still boot a custom firmware via power fault injection on the SoC.
Pirates will always find a way, the Nintendo Switch had all the countermeasures you mentioned, the latest revisions also have a patched bootloader but someone figured out that they could still boot a custom firmware via power fault injection on the SoC.
Nintendo (or rather Nvidia) was behind the curve on fault injection counter-measures, Sony and Microsoft did their homework and it's never been achieved on their last two generations of systems as far as I know. Microsoft openly talked about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7VwtOrwceo
Seriously, console security is getting really good. The Switch had some major hardware blunders between the bootloader bug and fault injection, but the developer of the main Switch CFW project is on record that their custom microkernel is absolutely bulletproof and he expects there will never be another software exploit. If Switch 2 gets the hardware right, there's no way in.
https://twitter.com/SciresM/status/1486787208333774848
https://twitter.com/SciresM/status/1327721899862888448
The Playstation is the weakest of the bunch, since they run FreeBSD on bare metal there's a large attack surface and a lot of eyes on the code. The Xbox uses some variant of NT but each application gets its own Hyper-V virtualized NT instance, so to jailbreak you need to escape Hyper-V, which is easier said than done and has a $250,000 bug bounty so MS would probably be the first to be informed.
Seriously, console security is getting really good. The Switch had some major hardware blunders between the bootloader bug and fault injection, but the developer of the main Switch CFW project is on record that their custom microkernel is absolutely bulletproof and he expects there will never be another software exploit. If Switch 2 gets the hardware right, there's no way in.
https://twitter.com/SciresM/status/1486787208333774848
https://twitter.com/SciresM/status/1327721899862888448
The Playstation is the weakest of the bunch, since they run FreeBSD on bare metal there's a large attack surface and a lot of eyes on the code. The Xbox uses some variant of NT but each application gets its own Hyper-V virtualized NT instance, so to jailbreak you need to escape Hyper-V, which is easier said than done and has a $250,000 bug bounty so MS would probably be the first to be informed.
I felt called out in that YouTube video when the guy said 'This is what people do to not spend $60 on games'.
$60 for a game is very expensive though. Especially so with digital distribution which means it can't be resold.
It's not expensive compared to what games used to cost.
When I bought a $60 game in 1996, I knew it was a complete product. It might have a bug that made it impossible to finish, but returns are a solved problem. I knew I had a product that was made, possibly incompetently, for fun, or to tell a story.
I wasn't buying something that was trying to nudge me into spending another $400 on different pixel colors, or worse, different characters, abilities, or effects.
Modern video games have adopted techniques used by the gambling industry to trigger essentially addiction, because game companies prefer 3 whales to a thousand happy individuals buying the game a single time and playing it forever happily.
Because they were not satisfied with making a million dollars off a video game. That wasn't enough money.
I wasn't buying something that was trying to nudge me into spending another $400 on different pixel colors, or worse, different characters, abilities, or effects.
Modern video games have adopted techniques used by the gambling industry to trigger essentially addiction, because game companies prefer 3 whales to a thousand happy individuals buying the game a single time and playing it forever happily.
Because they were not satisfied with making a million dollars off a video game. That wasn't enough money.
You used to be able to buy games used for a tiny fraction of the original price, and you used to be able to sell games you finished or didn't like. Now you have to pay the full price, every time, irreversibly.
It’s really not…
I'm sorry for not living in a first-world country and not having grown up in a rich family.
Games are a luxury, you aren't entitled to them (though in a third world country you probably aren't entitled to basic necessities either)
> you aren't entitled to them
Nobody said that.
> though in a third world country you probably aren't entitled to basic necessities either
I think you should travel more before writing that kind of comments.
Nobody said that.
> though in a third world country you probably aren't entitled to basic necessities either
I think you should travel more before writing that kind of comments.
It really depends where you live eh.
Videogames are usually not made in cheap countries
That is irrelevant to how affordable or not it is for the end user.
If you can’t afford to pay for the labour to produce it, then why would you expect to be able to buy it?
Here's the thing: if I can't afford a game because it's so outrageously expensive, I'm not going to just not play it and miss out, I'm going to pirate it.
And now that I'm an adult who totally can afford these things (after bypassing all the roadblocks that the world's entertainment companies put for customers from Russia), I still pirate everything because that's what I'm used to, and that's what I'm convenient with.
And now that I'm an adult who totally can afford these things (after bypassing all the roadblocks that the world's entertainment companies put for customers from Russia), I still pirate everything because that's what I'm used to, and that's what I'm convenient with.
That's fine, the problem is people acting like it's outrageous to charge $60 for 100+ hour length multi-million dollar projects. Factorio recently increased its price by $5 to $35 in line with inflation and gamers are outraged. How dare they charge more money, it's totally immoral, etc. I don't get why people feel outraged about it.
You don't pay for the labour to produce it, you pay for a gamble over an investment.
The labour to produce the game can totally be paid if the price of the game is reduced but the amount of copies sold increase by a significant amount to make up for the price reduction.
And wallet and income of the consumers in region X of the world do not stretch magically because game companies in region Y decide to invest more on games. It is not that simple.
And wallet and income of the consumers in region X of the world do not stretch magically because game companies in region Y decide to invest more on games. It is not that simple.
On the other hand the Switch is the best platform to make money on as an indie game developer.
While I'm not saying most people by far aren't doing it to save money, I have bought switch games and then emulated them just to try the graphics at 4k 60fps that isn't possible on the console.
That's the part I'm sad about - that we won't get emulated games that look and feel better due to faster hardware in the future. Money isn't an issue for me.
That's the part I'm sad about - that we won't get emulated games that look and feel better due to faster hardware in the future. Money isn't an issue for me.
I don't. I bought 1 game for my original xbox- Mech Assault
Xbone has no hacks. It has dev mode, no exclusives both which killed hacking and piracy.
It seems surprising to me that they went from shipping a vulnerable WebKit with numerous public CVEs on day 1, to producing a more or less bulletproof OS?
"console security is getting really good." - It's not nor will it ever be.
There is no point in investing extra millions for let's say anti electron microscope measures for example. Developers aim for secure enough and don't care much about a single nerd who cracked his individual system using exotic specialists tools more valuable than the console and the entire game collection combined. It's more lucrative to just send a lawyer. ( Until it goes wrong. )
I would class making it uneconomical to hack a console for any practical purpose as "really good security". Could someone with nation-state resources hack the Xbox? Maybe? But who cares, they're not going to.
Funny, I was just wondering if such an entity would not actually quite like the xbox and Playstation as targets. I mean, they are powerful machines, well connected to the internet and the ownership class by and large dont blink when they power them on and are told they need to download a system update or game patch. Feels like a fertile place to build a bot net?
I wonder if you really even need to hack the console. It might be easier to, say, subvert Rockstar's supply chain to put some code in the next GTA that spent a few cycles doing whatever botnets need to be doing.
I wonder if you really even need to hack the console. It might be easier to, say, subvert Rockstar's supply chain to put some code in the next GTA that spent a few cycles doing whatever botnets need to be doing.
Surely cheaper to mandate that microsoft ship the patch, if they wanted to do that.
Why going through the hassle when so many IoT devices are wide open?
Tony Chen even addresses this directly in the video above.
They literally had a hard line in the sand. $600. If it costs more than $600 to hack it then they really don't care.
The other big thing is games being locked to a specific OS version, meaning some games require updates to play them. This has been key in their security strategy. It's basically pointless to hack it, it will be patched and you'll have to opt in to the patch to play anything new.
They literally had a hard line in the sand. $600. If it costs more than $600 to hack it then they really don't care.
The other big thing is games being locked to a specific OS version, meaning some games require updates to play them. This has been key in their security strategy. It's basically pointless to hack it, it will be patched and you'll have to opt in to the patch to play anything new.
Another smart move by Microsoft was shipping Xboxes in an uninitialized state that has to connect to the internet and download the latest firmware before it can be used. Sony has been repeatedly burned by patching an exploit but having the vulnerable firmware still pre-installed on machines still in retail channels, so someone willing to abuse return policies can easily get one. MS doesn't need to worry about that, every new Xbox ends up on the latest firmware regardless of when it was manufactured.
PS5 and XS was attractive hack target for crypto mining when it was boom and GPU were in shortage. I wonder anyone had hacked it (and keep it secret) or hadn't.
not going to and publish it.
>There is no point in investing extra millions for let's say anti electron microscope measures for example.
TPM designs that protect against such an attack will become a commodity reducing the cost to include it onto a console. Every desktop, phone, laptop, tablet, microwave, fridge, server, etc will all need TPMs. The demand and scale exists for this to become cheap over time.
TPM designs that protect against such an attack will become a commodity reducing the cost to include it onto a console. Every desktop, phone, laptop, tablet, microwave, fridge, server, etc will all need TPMs. The demand and scale exists for this to become cheap over time.
> Pirates will always find a way
Except it's usually not pirates who find these exploits, rather curious tinkerers that want to unlock the full capabilities of the hardware that they own. The pirates / script kiddies usually come in after the groundwork has already been laid by these true hackers. E.g. the people who hacked the Switch in fact condemn piracy and any discussion of it on within their communities will lead to an immediate ban.
I'm proud to say that I've hacked my Switch, but have never pirated anything on it. An impressive homebrew scene has formed around the console, which has produced gems such as Mission Control, allowing you to seamlessly pair third party controllers. I use it with my PS4 controllers.
https://github.com/ndeadly/MissionControl
Except it's usually not pirates who find these exploits, rather curious tinkerers that want to unlock the full capabilities of the hardware that they own. The pirates / script kiddies usually come in after the groundwork has already been laid by these true hackers. E.g. the people who hacked the Switch in fact condemn piracy and any discussion of it on within their communities will lead to an immediate ban.
I'm proud to say that I've hacked my Switch, but have never pirated anything on it. An impressive homebrew scene has formed around the console, which has produced gems such as Mission Control, allowing you to seamlessly pair third party controllers. I use it with my PS4 controllers.
https://github.com/ndeadly/MissionControl
The Playstation 4 was launched in 2013 and there is no modern hack for it.
Playstation 5 has been jailbroken, though [0].
Well, even the PS4, actually [1].
[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cq3K9lBli0
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxRTGMe_RuE
Well, even the PS4, actually [1].
[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cq3K9lBli0
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxRTGMe_RuE
it saddens me as a vintage games conservator that my present day PS4 will be a brick in a few years. When I have consoles and games going back 40 years. It just doesn’t seem right.
The thing that has me concerned is that even if you keep the consoles working, and even if you have an extensive library of physical media, these days what’s on the disc is probably an unpatched, incomplete, possibly unplayable mess.
That’s not intended as a criticism of game development, just an expression of fear for the preservation implications. It’s no longer enough to preserve what’s in your hands—which is difficult enough where electronics are concerned—but now someone must find some way to extract, archive, and reapply all the day one patches, bug fixes, DLC packs etc.
That’s not intended as a criticism of game development, just an expression of fear for the preservation implications. It’s no longer enough to preserve what’s in your hands—which is difficult enough where electronics are concerned—but now someone must find some way to extract, archive, and reapply all the day one patches, bug fixes, DLC packs etc.
> someone must find some way to extract, archive, and reapply all the day one patches, bug fixes, DLC packs etc.
This is what has to happen. I believe that as these consequences become more and more widely felt you’ll have a pretty strong mandate for some kind of change in thinking.
I mean, if you’ve actually bought the game (as opposed to streamed it) I think there’s a strong case to be made that you should be entitled to its use beyond the wishes of the copyright holder.
This is what has to happen. I believe that as these consequences become more and more widely felt you’ll have a pretty strong mandate for some kind of change in thinking.
I mean, if you’ve actually bought the game (as opposed to streamed it) I think there’s a strong case to be made that you should be entitled to its use beyond the wishes of the copyright holder.
I mean this as earnestly as possible: remember that pain and don't buy a PS5, or a PS6, or
[...] Don't build any more emotional relationships with products built by rentiers that refuse to respect your ability to enjoy the perpetuity of your license (and god forbid even considering actually owning anything). Take on an allotment and breed a new hybrid chili pepper, or brew some beer and share it with your neighbors. Beat Galaga for the 11,000th time. Whatever it takes. To hell with Huxley's Brave New World-- a better one is possible if we force it to exist by refusing to continue enabling the system enslaving us.
Should we stop playing video games altogether then?
If you stick to PC instead, you’re still at the mercy of platforms like Steam. They can, and will, remove games over time. GTA being a great example.
If you stick to PC instead, you’re still at the mercy of platforms like Steam. They can, and will, remove games over time. GTA being a great example.
As far as I'm aware Steam has never removed a game. They have unlisted games for several reasons, but that has never affected previous purchases.
Plenty of DRM-free marketplaces like GOG or itch.io are available. No restrictions, play it however you want.
I don't know. Maybe. I've gone back and forth on this many times.
Wanting to play a video game, and having to learn how to free up enough conventional memory in DOS that I could do so without giving up sound and joystick control, was really my entry into tech. I can't say my life would have been better without them.
On the other hand, they're as much of a time sink as you allow them to be, and in the last decade are increasingly also vying to be an unlimited money sink in the form of microtransactions, lootboxes, gimped free-to-play (or even pay-to-play!) with progression held back without paid boosts, etc. Should we want to engage with such dark patterns?
Once I got into Linux in the mid 90s, and especially once I really bought into the whole FL/OSS-as-an-ethos activist/evangelist stuff as a late-teen, my gaming options became quite limited. I spent a long time saying playing video games was bad, and a sign of poor life choices. I dialed back my rhetoric as I entered my late 30s, and I own and occasionally use a Steam Deck now. I even "own" Diablo 4 - failing to take my own advice here - but I do find it difficult to convince myself to invest time in what is essentially an MMO that will probably be reset or switched off at some point. There's no sense of permanence, and I have no faith that MicrosoftActivisionBlizzard will keep running D4 services for the next 25 years the way Blizzard did for Diablo II.
But I've got the farm now, and that will outlast me, so whatever. "Touch grass" as the kids say, but as a(n a)vocation.
That's certainly more than you wanted to read. Sorry.
Wanting to play a video game, and having to learn how to free up enough conventional memory in DOS that I could do so without giving up sound and joystick control, was really my entry into tech. I can't say my life would have been better without them.
On the other hand, they're as much of a time sink as you allow them to be, and in the last decade are increasingly also vying to be an unlimited money sink in the form of microtransactions, lootboxes, gimped free-to-play (or even pay-to-play!) with progression held back without paid boosts, etc. Should we want to engage with such dark patterns?
Once I got into Linux in the mid 90s, and especially once I really bought into the whole FL/OSS-as-an-ethos activist/evangelist stuff as a late-teen, my gaming options became quite limited. I spent a long time saying playing video games was bad, and a sign of poor life choices. I dialed back my rhetoric as I entered my late 30s, and I own and occasionally use a Steam Deck now. I even "own" Diablo 4 - failing to take my own advice here - but I do find it difficult to convince myself to invest time in what is essentially an MMO that will probably be reset or switched off at some point. There's no sense of permanence, and I have no faith that MicrosoftActivisionBlizzard will keep running D4 services for the next 25 years the way Blizzard did for Diablo II.
But I've got the farm now, and that will outlast me, so whatever. "Touch grass" as the kids say, but as a(n a)vocation.
That's certainly more than you wanted to read. Sorry.
Games are better than they ever have been before, by FAR. You just have to look past the mainstream junk.
Design has gotten a lot better and they have figured out ways to add fun progression to arcade style games.
Design has gotten a lot better and they have figured out ways to add fun progression to arcade style games.
OTOH, has there really been any actually culturally significant video games released in recent years?
I enjoyed for example the Uncharted games a lot. But I don’t think anything significant will have been lost if future generations of people don’t get to play the Uncharted games, no matter how much I enjoyed them myself.
Whereas, things like Pong, and Pac-Man and the first Super Mario games and the Pokémon Red and Blue and Yellow games feel much more important for me, and of course the original Doom, all of these are important on a whole other level. And thankfully they are all sure to be able to be preserved at least in some form.
I enjoyed for example the Uncharted games a lot. But I don’t think anything significant will have been lost if future generations of people don’t get to play the Uncharted games, no matter how much I enjoyed them myself.
Whereas, things like Pong, and Pac-Man and the first Super Mario games and the Pokémon Red and Blue and Yellow games feel much more important for me, and of course the original Doom, all of these are important on a whole other level. And thankfully they are all sure to be able to be preserved at least in some form.
There's been plenty of amazing and culturally relevant games recently, you just have rose tinted glasses for the time you grew up in (or you haven't been gaming much). I'll just list a handful of really well known ones.
* Basically everything FromSoft has put out (With Dark Souls 1 and Elden Ring probably being the most important - Dark Souls effectively kicked off an entire genre because of it's popularity (technically Demon's Souls came first, but Dark Souls was the first one to blow up).)
* Breath of the Wild
* Escape from Tarkov also kicked off a new genre in the extraction shooter, although noone else has quite nailed it yet imo.
* The Witcher 3 (heavily influentual towards the design of Breath of the Wild, and a number of other open world rpgs recently)
* As someone else pointed out, Baldurs Gate 3
* Skyrim
* Minecraft
* Dwarf Fortress (not exactly recent, but the Steam release propelled it into being much more well known)
* Path of Exile arguably revolutionized the diablo-style ARPG genre - any ARPG that comes out now is influenced by it - see Last Epoch for probably the biggest example.
Whether a game is "culturally relevant" or not really just hinges off of whether a significantly large portion of the population plays and talks about it for long enough though.
These days we get so many more quality game releases than we ever did in the 90s/2000s so it's much harder for a single game to grab everybody's attention in the same way that the stuff you mentioned did.
* Basically everything FromSoft has put out (With Dark Souls 1 and Elden Ring probably being the most important - Dark Souls effectively kicked off an entire genre because of it's popularity (technically Demon's Souls came first, but Dark Souls was the first one to blow up).)
* Breath of the Wild
* Escape from Tarkov also kicked off a new genre in the extraction shooter, although noone else has quite nailed it yet imo.
* The Witcher 3 (heavily influentual towards the design of Breath of the Wild, and a number of other open world rpgs recently)
* As someone else pointed out, Baldurs Gate 3
* Skyrim
* Minecraft
* Dwarf Fortress (not exactly recent, but the Steam release propelled it into being much more well known)
* Path of Exile arguably revolutionized the diablo-style ARPG genre - any ARPG that comes out now is influenced by it - see Last Epoch for probably the biggest example.
Whether a game is "culturally relevant" or not really just hinges off of whether a significantly large portion of the population plays and talks about it for long enough though.
These days we get so many more quality game releases than we ever did in the 90s/2000s so it's much harder for a single game to grab everybody's attention in the same way that the stuff you mentioned did.
We’re also finally getting games that have genuinely good writing in them, not just writing that’s good for the sliding scale that usually applies to interactive media.
- Disco Elysium is a role-playing game largely about self-discovery and identity
- Kentucky Route Zero is a reflection on mortality and the true costs of poverty
- NORCO is a meditation on death and survivorship with meanderings into environmentalism and groupthink/cult thinking
- Disco Elysium is a role-playing game largely about self-discovery and identity
- Kentucky Route Zero is a reflection on mortality and the true costs of poverty
- NORCO is a meditation on death and survivorship with meanderings into environmentalism and groupthink/cult thinking
that's not really what Disco Elysium is about ;)
To be fair many of the games on this list would be trivial to preserve as long as windows remains backwards compatible with older software, and not too hard even after that. Breath of the wild and Tarkov stands out as exceptions
I think I've seen Breath of the Wild running well on emulator, at higher resolution than on the switch.
Until recently I would have said Spider-Man and God of War 2016 though both are now released on Windows as well.
linux & proton?
* Basically everything FromSoft has put out - roll, roll, slice, roll, roll, slice
* Breath of the Wild - boring temples, lifeless empty world
* Escape from Tarkov - unplayably buggy, awful servers, generic assets and models
* The Witcher 3 - good, but generic third person adventure/exploration
* As someone else pointed out, Baldurs Gate 3 - incredibly generic fantasy universe and fantasy trope story
* Skyrim - incredibly generic fantasy universe and fantasy trope story
* Minecraft - actually innovative, creative, and unique game. What LEGO bricks were to kids in the 80s and 90s, minecraft is to the 2010s and 2020s
* Dwarf Fortress - cool indie game
* Path of Exile - a decent game in a dead genre. bad story/art style. only noteworthy thing is the gameplay is tight, but so was Diablo
* Breath of the Wild - boring temples, lifeless empty world
* Escape from Tarkov - unplayably buggy, awful servers, generic assets and models
* The Witcher 3 - good, but generic third person adventure/exploration
* As someone else pointed out, Baldurs Gate 3 - incredibly generic fantasy universe and fantasy trope story
* Skyrim - incredibly generic fantasy universe and fantasy trope story
* Minecraft - actually innovative, creative, and unique game. What LEGO bricks were to kids in the 80s and 90s, minecraft is to the 2010s and 2020s
* Dwarf Fortress - cool indie game
* Path of Exile - a decent game in a dead genre. bad story/art style. only noteworthy thing is the gameplay is tight, but so was Diablo
Great take, I agree with all of these
Blade: The Edge of Darkness came first before the Souls saga.
How are we defining recent?
( you're right they're all recent compared to Pong and the OP's point. )
Except BG3, most of what you've listed are around 10 years old.
BoTW: 7
Tarkov: 8 ( Technically, but was slow burning so hard to place exactly when it took off. )
Witcher3: 9
Skyrim: 13
Minecraft: 14? ( 13 if we're counting retail, but it was massively popular before then )
DF: 18?
Path of Exile: 11.
( you're right they're all recent compared to Pong and the OP's point. )
Except BG3, most of what you've listed are around 10 years old.
BoTW: 7
Tarkov: 8 ( Technically, but was slow burning so hard to place exactly when it took off. )
Witcher3: 9
Skyrim: 13
Minecraft: 14? ( 13 if we're counting retail, but it was massively popular before then )
DF: 18?
Path of Exile: 11.
The PoE of 11 years ago isn't the PoE that people rave about today, though. That's more of the past 6-7 years through today.
You skipped over mentioning Elden Ring, with it being from 2022.
Some others from the 2020s:
Hades, 2020
Animal Crossing, 2020
Among Us, 2020
Vampire Survivors, 2022
Half Life Alyx, 2020 (Still probably the only real example of a "true" AAA VR game)
I think it's tough to say what games will be long-term culturally significant when they've only been out a year or two, though. I think it's easier to look back in that 5-15 year range and see what stood up.
You skipped over mentioning Elden Ring, with it being from 2022.
Some others from the 2020s:
Hades, 2020
Animal Crossing, 2020
Among Us, 2020
Vampire Survivors, 2022
Half Life Alyx, 2020 (Still probably the only real example of a "true" AAA VR game)
I think it's tough to say what games will be long-term culturally significant when they've only been out a year or two, though. I think it's easier to look back in that 5-15 year range and see what stood up.
> I think it's tough to say what games will be long-term culturally significant when they've only been out a year or two, though. I think it's easier to look back in that 5-15 year range and see what stood up.
This is exactly what I was thinking when writing this list, along with noting that OP mentioned games from the late 90's at the latest - my timeline for "recent" was pretty wide.
---
"Culturally Relevant" to me means one of two things:
* So many people played the damn thing that it entered the public consciousness outside of gaming focused communities, and stayed there for a decent amount of time.
* It had a significant and fairly enduring influence on the design of later titles made by other studios.
You can tell within a few months whether a game is in the former category (Elden Ring, Palworld, Minecraft, Among Us, BG3 etc), but it takes years to know whether a game is in the second category (Dark Souls, also Minecraft to an extent, Path of Exile, Witcher 3, Tarkov etc).
This is exactly what I was thinking when writing this list, along with noting that OP mentioned games from the late 90's at the latest - my timeline for "recent" was pretty wide.
---
"Culturally Relevant" to me means one of two things:
* So many people played the damn thing that it entered the public consciousness outside of gaming focused communities, and stayed there for a decent amount of time.
* It had a significant and fairly enduring influence on the design of later titles made by other studios.
You can tell within a few months whether a game is in the former category (Elden Ring, Palworld, Minecraft, Among Us, BG3 etc), but it takes years to know whether a game is in the second category (Dark Souls, also Minecraft to an extent, Path of Exile, Witcher 3, Tarkov etc).
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of great and impactful games from recent years, I was just struck that the list of "recent" games were particularly old from the perspective of actual new games like the ones you mention. I missed the mention of Elden Ring in the original post, it wasn't deliberate on my part to skip it.
And indeed, PoE of 11 years ago isn't comparable, even PoE pre-delirium probably isn't recognisable to current PoE, and anything pre Incursion certainly isn't, but that's the nature of a live-service game. The power creep post-conquerors has been incredible, and there's been essentially no effort to bring that in after they decided that a reset with PoE2 would be preferable than trying to rein in power creep in modern PoE, and that adding upper end aspiration content instead was preferable.
The decision to rein in power with expedition backfired so hard that people still complain they don't have an item editor with harvest. ( Although with Locks it's come pretty close again at the right cost. )
I think they made a good choice, PoE is better than ever, but it's controversial, and every patch post 3.14 has had a lot of detractors claiming that "PoE is ruined".
In terms of cultural impact, it's still interesting that it's such an "old" game that's having an impact on (gaming) culture.
If we're talking about wider culture, you're right that "culturally significant" can take time to materialise. I'm not sure Alyx or even Hades really makes the cut. They're great games of their genre but I don't think they've had the cut through that the others you've listed have had.
Among Us was a cultural phenomenon that was immediately visible outside of gaming, akin to something like Fortnite although perhaps magnified by the pandemic massively boosting streaming audiences and people looking for some kind of social connection through the internet.
Survivors has had a massive impact on gaming, it's created a genre of it's own ("Survivors-like" is a thing) which can be seen with the release of "DeepRockGalactic: Survivors" which is a great improvement on the genre. It's fair to say that while Vampire Survivors itself might not have the cultural cut through, it defined a genre of games that have inspired clones from Brotato to DRG and deserves its place on that list if we're looking at gaming culture, but it's too soon to say if we're looking at culture outside of gaming.
And indeed, PoE of 11 years ago isn't comparable, even PoE pre-delirium probably isn't recognisable to current PoE, and anything pre Incursion certainly isn't, but that's the nature of a live-service game. The power creep post-conquerors has been incredible, and there's been essentially no effort to bring that in after they decided that a reset with PoE2 would be preferable than trying to rein in power creep in modern PoE, and that adding upper end aspiration content instead was preferable.
The decision to rein in power with expedition backfired so hard that people still complain they don't have an item editor with harvest. ( Although with Locks it's come pretty close again at the right cost. )
I think they made a good choice, PoE is better than ever, but it's controversial, and every patch post 3.14 has had a lot of detractors claiming that "PoE is ruined".
In terms of cultural impact, it's still interesting that it's such an "old" game that's having an impact on (gaming) culture.
If we're talking about wider culture, you're right that "culturally significant" can take time to materialise. I'm not sure Alyx or even Hades really makes the cut. They're great games of their genre but I don't think they've had the cut through that the others you've listed have had.
Among Us was a cultural phenomenon that was immediately visible outside of gaming, akin to something like Fortnite although perhaps magnified by the pandemic massively boosting streaming audiences and people looking for some kind of social connection through the internet.
Survivors has had a massive impact on gaming, it's created a genre of it's own ("Survivors-like" is a thing) which can be seen with the release of "DeepRockGalactic: Survivors" which is a great improvement on the genre. It's fair to say that while Vampire Survivors itself might not have the cultural cut through, it defined a genre of games that have inspired clones from Brotato to DRG and deserves its place on that list if we're looking at gaming culture, but it's too soon to say if we're looking at culture outside of gaming.
> OTOH, has there really been any actually culturally significant video games released in recent years?
Yes, like -random example here- Uncharted :-P.
TBH i do not think what is "culturally significant" is something that we can answer right now, but something that will be up to future people to decide.
Though i do think that Uncharted is culturally significant in how it was part of a series of influences from the original Indiana Jones, to Tomb Raider, to Uncharted and back to Tomb Raider (in that each one of those influenced the next) - with some Prince of Persia thrown in for good measure. But for people to be able to tell, judge and discover these things, the games must be available to them - preferably in their original condition (remasters, rereleases, remakes, etc often tend to change things - though those should also be available so these changes can also be seen and perhaps talked about in the future).
Also not only "good games" or "influential games" are worthy of preservation - even bad or just mediocre game are worthy of that, for a variety of reasons. Games are often a snapshot of the times they were made at and multiple "snapshots" are always better than a single one. Even from a design perspective, a bad game can be interesting: for example the original Prince of Persia 3D seems to have been largely lost in the sands of time and yet it is an interesting game in its own right despite its flaws, in how its interpretation of (classic) Tomb Raider's controls combined with ideas from the original 2D games around realistic/captured animation ended up creating something inferior to its clear inspirations (but that is clear only really if you know about/have played the games that inspired it and know about/have played the game itself).
Of course if you just want to have fun, whatever is available on Steam will more than suffice.
Yes, like -random example here- Uncharted :-P.
TBH i do not think what is "culturally significant" is something that we can answer right now, but something that will be up to future people to decide.
Though i do think that Uncharted is culturally significant in how it was part of a series of influences from the original Indiana Jones, to Tomb Raider, to Uncharted and back to Tomb Raider (in that each one of those influenced the next) - with some Prince of Persia thrown in for good measure. But for people to be able to tell, judge and discover these things, the games must be available to them - preferably in their original condition (remasters, rereleases, remakes, etc often tend to change things - though those should also be available so these changes can also be seen and perhaps talked about in the future).
Also not only "good games" or "influential games" are worthy of preservation - even bad or just mediocre game are worthy of that, for a variety of reasons. Games are often a snapshot of the times they were made at and multiple "snapshots" are always better than a single one. Even from a design perspective, a bad game can be interesting: for example the original Prince of Persia 3D seems to have been largely lost in the sands of time and yet it is an interesting game in its own right despite its flaws, in how its interpretation of (classic) Tomb Raider's controls combined with ideas from the original 2D games around realistic/captured animation ended up creating something inferior to its clear inspirations (but that is clear only really if you know about/have played the games that inspired it and know about/have played the game itself).
Of course if you just want to have fun, whatever is available on Steam will more than suffice.
Completely agree with this take. What is culturally significant? Things that impact culture more than "is it a good game".
Advanced Lawnmower Simulator probably has more cultural significance than "Another Call Of Duty 7", since I remember it from my childhood and an article gets posted that mentions it at least once a year. Does that make it a good game?
Definitely not.
Advanced Lawnmower Simulator probably has more cultural significance than "Another Call Of Duty 7", since I remember it from my childhood and an article gets posted that mentions it at least once a year. Does that make it a good game?
Definitely not.
Based on the massively positive response both inside and out of the gaming community… I’m gonna say Baldur’s Gate 3
Seriously, it’s converting people I never in 100 years would have expected to become gamers.
Seriously, it’s converting people I never in 100 years would have expected to become gamers.
Funny because it is the first time I hear there has been 3rd opus of the Baldur's Gate series
The problem is that the lockout and anti-privacy tech developed for consoles tends to metastasize over to general-purpose computers, like with signed executables, gatekeeper, secure boot, etc. People would oppose development of it otherwise, like they did for the Clipper Chip and the original Palladium proposal. Having an appliance where software """needs""" to be """protected""" from the machine's owner allows that stuff to fly under the radar until it's already bulletproof.
How recent are we talking about? Did you miss Breath of the Wild? Super Mario Odyssey? The Last of Us 2? Red Dead Redemption 2? Hollow Knight? Elden Ring? Half Life Alyx? Hell, Pokemon Go qualifies for cultural recognition.
> Hell, Pokemon Go
I think Pokémon Go was a much more visible and impactful phenomenon (in certain places) than anything else on your list. This might be different to "cultural importance" depending on your definition.
I mean did random churches and libraries have "Playing Red Dead Redemption 2 is not allowed here" signs up?
Were there flash mobs in NYC playing Half Life Alyx?
I think Pokémon Go was a much more visible and impactful phenomenon (in certain places) than anything else on your list. This might be different to "cultural importance" depending on your definition.
I mean did random churches and libraries have "Playing Red Dead Redemption 2 is not allowed here" signs up?
Were there flash mobs in NYC playing Half Life Alyx?
> OTOH, has there really been any actually culturally significant video games released in recent years?
Fortnite certainly seems to be, for better or worse.
Fortnite certainly seems to be, for better or worse.
They're all x86 so don't despair.
Plus they haven't made a good exclusive since Bloodborne. No Xbox exclusives afaik.
Don't worry, gaming peaked a long time ago. There's a huge backlog of great games that are better than their remakes like XCOM. Aside from graphics, I'd say AAA gameplay has even regressed in many ways. Indie games do their own thing and run on PC.
Plus they haven't made a good exclusive since Bloodborne. No Xbox exclusives afaik.
Don't worry, gaming peaked a long time ago. There's a huge backlog of great games that are better than their remakes like XCOM. Aside from graphics, I'd say AAA gameplay has even regressed in many ways. Indie games do their own thing and run on PC.
As Vulnerability Research is my area of expertise we are finding new attack vectors all the time. Remember with new technology and abstraction you introduce new potential security issues that can be used to subvert other means of protection. It’s a tit for tat non ending cycle. That being said exploitation of consoles and phones has become quite difficult. Enough at least to make me move to embedded security as there is more work to be done there..
I think there’s some hope in the console market via the likes of things like the Steamdeck and other handheld PC devices. Hopefully they’ll get cheaper as time goes on and compete at the same price point as the switch.
Console ownership isn't as popular with younger people anymore and their exclusive games are not what they used to be, so I wouldn't worry.
We're not losing much. Consoles have been dying for a while.
We're not losing much. Consoles have been dying for a while.
[deleted]
This soothes my soul seeing exploits for the consoles I grew up with. For a second it takes me back to a simpler time. The homebrew scene for the XBOX was more fun than the console itself!
A while back I saw this clickbait video of "Gen Z trying out the original XBOX" and man that was a reality check as to how much time has passed.
A while back I saw this clickbait video of "Gen Z trying out the original XBOX" and man that was a reality check as to how much time has passed.
Hacking the original Xbox + x360 is what I credit as getting me "really into computers"
For OG xbox, I was a definition script kiddie but I learned how to use FTP, how to connect via crossover cable, how to solder, the basics of what exploits are and how they work, and a ton of other skills that I use daily.
X360 required me to take the damn thing apart (which was terrifying as a 14 year old who wouldn't get a replacement if I broke things). I learned about firmware, SATA connections, the bits (I forget the name) that specify whether something was retail or not, why the exploit wouldn't let you run unsigned code, etc.
I was just a broke kid who wanted to watch movies and play games I couldn't afford, but it literally got me into tinkering and hacking, even though what I was doing wasn't much more than "follow a guide, script kiddy"
For OG xbox, I was a definition script kiddie but I learned how to use FTP, how to connect via crossover cable, how to solder, the basics of what exploits are and how they work, and a ton of other skills that I use daily.
X360 required me to take the damn thing apart (which was terrifying as a 14 year old who wouldn't get a replacement if I broke things). I learned about firmware, SATA connections, the bits (I forget the name) that specify whether something was retail or not, why the exploit wouldn't let you run unsigned code, etc.
I was just a broke kid who wanted to watch movies and play games I couldn't afford, but it literally got me into tinkering and hacking, even though what I was doing wasn't much more than "follow a guide, script kiddy"
Same here for the OG Xbox. Lots of TSOP flashes for friends over SSH after booting a saved game exploit for 007: Agent Under Fire. Reading lots of the forums on xbox-scene.com. Learned to solder with a soldering iron I picked up from the local Radioshack.
Xbox modding (and similarly with the Wii) was a huge entry-level introduction to so many computer concepts.
Ditto for me with the OG XBOX. I was in high school and had no clue what I was doing with static ip addresses and crossover cables. We didn't even have a router hence the static ip address. Each cool homebrew XBE I FTP'ed over to my XBOX was another exciting adventure!
My computing journey started earlier on DOS but XBOX kept me going through a period of post 9/11 depression where the excitement of childhood and an amazing future was slowly disappearing. I stopped even playing video games after the end of the XBOX lifecycle (despite continuing to buy new gen hardware just so I could take it apart and admire the internals).
Now living in the post ChatGPT days and wondering about my future, i'm looking back wishing I could live through those late nights one more time.
My computing journey started earlier on DOS but XBOX kept me going through a period of post 9/11 depression where the excitement of childhood and an amazing future was slowly disappearing. I stopped even playing video games after the end of the XBOX lifecycle (despite continuing to buy new gen hardware just so I could take it apart and admire the internals).
Now living in the post ChatGPT days and wondering about my future, i'm looking back wishing I could live through those late nights one more time.
Microsoft actually just tricked an entire generation of us into learning C# and .NET.
They were playing the long-con game.
They were playing the long-con game.
For me it was creating “gift card code generator” for games like Habbo Hotel and RuneScape in C# and distribute it among my friends to get into their accounts. 14 year old me was proud of my “hacking” skills.
A +1 for me too. The Xbox modding scene taught me the foundation of my systems knowledge despite already having a Windows PC.
> Gen Z trying out the original XBOX
Gen Z is a pretty wide group. I am Gen Z and played on an original xbox. However at the time the PS3 was already out, as it came out not much later.
And in my region, the PS2 was much more popular than the xbox.
My sister however, who is only a few years younger, is definitely part of the iPad generation.
Everybody played the Wii though, hell I still play the Wii.
Gen Z is a pretty wide group. I am Gen Z and played on an original xbox. However at the time the PS3 was already out, as it came out not much later.
And in my region, the PS2 was much more popular than the xbox.
My sister however, who is only a few years younger, is definitely part of the iPad generation.
Everybody played the Wii though, hell I still play the Wii.
You do raise a good point as Gen Z is around 1997-2012 (exact dates are always a little fuzzy)
So 97 would put you around 4-5 years old when the XBOX came out. The video made it look like the XBOX was some ancient artifact to the Gen Z people. I guess if you were born in 2012 it is an ancient artifact?
[1]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJEzvijyNmw
So 97 would put you around 4-5 years old when the XBOX came out. The video made it look like the XBOX was some ancient artifact to the Gen Z people. I guess if you were born in 2012 it is an ancient artifact?
[1]:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJEzvijyNmw
If you were born in 2012 you'd be born around the time GTA V was released for PS4. So the original xbox would definitely be considered ancient.
This is awesome. I remember back in 2006 I bought every copy of MechAssault that my local Game Stop had and hoped that one was the correct revision such that it was compatible with the Krayzie Ndure softmod exploit, and used it to install Xbox Media Center (XBMC). It's from that setup that I learned how computer networking works. I credit basically my entire career with reading about softmods at the back of a Popular Science magazine.
Anyway, it's awesome that you'll eventually be able to softmod an Xbox without a specific game once the mods are integrated with this exploit. Good work!
Anyway, it's awesome that you'll eventually be able to softmod an Xbox without a specific game once the mods are integrated with this exploit. Good work!
Snap! And I went on to develop an XBMC add-on to control windows media center as a result of getting into the scene!
Aside: og xbox is not so expensive 2nd hand and a great way to set up a kids lan party. 1 old router, 3 xboxes, 3 tvs, 12 controllers, Halo gets you 10 year-olds' mayhem. Noisy fun. Arguably easier if xboxes are modded.
MotoGP, crash team racing, powerdrome, crimson skies all work great https://www.teamxlink.co.uk/wiki/Supported_Games then sort by both total players and players per console descending
Is this single location lan something that has been lost since those days?
Any better ways to set up a temporary lan party for kids?
[1] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005142269614.htm
MotoGP, crash team racing, powerdrome, crimson skies all work great https://www.teamxlink.co.uk/wiki/Supported_Games then sort by both total players and players per console descending
Is this single location lan something that has been lost since those days?
Any better ways to set up a temporary lan party for kids?
[1] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005142269614.htm
modded oG xbox's or even X360s are a great living room centerpiece.
oG Xbox, Xlink Kai is still a thing. It was my first experience playing online as a poor 12 year old script kiddie myself.
For X360 LAN parties, It took a long time to find, but the hard-coded 4ms ping limit for "LAN" mode was removed, so LAN parties can be split into neighborhood LAN parties without problems
oG Xbox, Xlink Kai is still a thing. It was my first experience playing online as a poor 12 year old script kiddie myself.
For X360 LAN parties, It took a long time to find, but the hard-coded 4ms ping limit for "LAN" mode was removed, so LAN parties can be split into neighborhood LAN parties without problems
Your link is 404, what was the title of the thing you were linking to?
< HTTP/2 404
< content-type: application/json;charset=UTF-8
{"timestamp":1708462250423,"status":404,"error":"Not Found","message":"No message available","path":"/item/1005005142269614.htm"}Terrible! Clipping the tracking gunk after the ? in th url took out the l in .html
xbox to hdmi converter. Useful if using an lcd monitor without analog input.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005142269614.html
xbox to hdmi converter. Useful if using an lcd monitor without analog input.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005142269614.html
I have the same use case but with Xbox 360s since they are cheaper and easier to get here in Germany.
Haven't found a better "easy LAN party" setup than this.
A PC gaming LAN setup for 20 year old games is also dirt cheap but mostly requires 1 PC per player. The splitt screen support on PC is unfortunately very bad.
Haven't found a better "easy LAN party" setup than this.
A PC gaming LAN setup for 20 year old games is also dirt cheap but mostly requires 1 PC per player. The splitt screen support on PC is unfortunately very bad.
This is pretty cool. For anyone interested, it's an int overflow in savegame image handling code.
I saw a little pessimism from other comments about a bleak future with fully secured consoles, but I expect image parsing bugs are forever!
The difficulty is in turning a userland exploit into a useful jailbreak, there will always be parser bugs and WebKit bugs but those are only the first step in the chain. From there you need to escape the sandbox and that's the part which keeps getting more difficult.
The "unhackable" Xbox One has had at least one userland exploit via attacking the web browser, but nothing came of it because they weren't able to break out of Hyper-V.
The "unhackable" Xbox One has had at least one userland exploit via attacking the web browser, but nothing came of it because they weren't able to break out of Hyper-V.
> The exploit targets an integer overflow in the dashboard's handling of savegame images.
It's truly fascinating how often image format parse bugs end up being the entry point for attackers...
It's truly fascinating how often image format parse bugs end up being the entry point for attackers...
How many things named "endgame" are there?
Awesome! I'd love to see a detailed writeup on how the exploit works, if someone has the time and interest to put one together.
We were incredibly lucky to get one for the Switch BootROM exploit: https://github.com/Qyriad/fusee-launcher/blob/master/report/...
We were incredibly lucky to get one for the Switch BootROM exploit: https://github.com/Qyriad/fusee-launcher/blob/master/report/...
ive been trying to hack the XB1 for a year now and only have two potential exploits of only one i will release because it cant be patched, maybe spoof your device family. im researching and just stumble apon 100 posts like this
Why would I want to do this? It doesn't seem to mention that in the README
The original Xbox was locked down so only code signed by Microsoft was allowed to run on it. The executables also had a flag specifying which media it was allowed to run from. This meant that you couldn't run a game from a copied disc (different media-type) or the internal hard drive (again, different media-type).
There were plenty of hacks that allowed you to circumvent this. Once you get some form of code execution on the Xbox, it's over, everything runs in Ring 0, meaning you get full access. You can use exploitable executables to maintain persistence without having to do any hardware modifications. However, all these methods relied on an initial entry through either:
A. Installing new hardware (a modchip) to run an altered version of the Microsoft Xbox kernel that doesn't perform the usual checks.
B. Transferring an altered save game to the Xbox through the memory card (internally it's just a USB drive), running the game and loading the save, which triggers an exploit
C. Booting the console (which unlocks the hard drive), waiting until the hard drive activity ceases, "hotswapping" the IDE cable to your computer, modifying the files, swapping it back and turning the console off so the drive locks again. (If the hard drive loses power, it locks itself again too, hence why the hotswap-which is not supported by the PATA standard obviously-is needed)
Now, with this, there is no more reliance on bespoke modchip hardware, aging vulnerable game discs or machines that you can still hotswap an IDE drive to. Which means that Xbox modding has gotten more reliable for the coming years. Which is good news in my book.
There were plenty of hacks that allowed you to circumvent this. Once you get some form of code execution on the Xbox, it's over, everything runs in Ring 0, meaning you get full access. You can use exploitable executables to maintain persistence without having to do any hardware modifications. However, all these methods relied on an initial entry through either:
A. Installing new hardware (a modchip) to run an altered version of the Microsoft Xbox kernel that doesn't perform the usual checks.
B. Transferring an altered save game to the Xbox through the memory card (internally it's just a USB drive), running the game and loading the save, which triggers an exploit
C. Booting the console (which unlocks the hard drive), waiting until the hard drive activity ceases, "hotswapping" the IDE cable to your computer, modifying the files, swapping it back and turning the console off so the drive locks again. (If the hard drive loses power, it locks itself again too, hence why the hotswap-which is not supported by the PATA standard obviously-is needed)
Now, with this, there is no more reliance on bespoke modchip hardware, aging vulnerable game discs or machines that you can still hotswap an IDE drive to. Which means that Xbox modding has gotten more reliable for the coming years. Which is good news in my book.
Oh man! That hot swap method! I remember my computer, running Linux (which freaked 14 year old me out) from a live cd, case open, and plugging in the hdd while the Xbox and pc was on.
I felt like a warlock when I could rip my games after that.
Great memories.
And my mate at school saying there is no such thing as a soft mod! Haha
I felt like a warlock when I could rip my games after that.
Great memories.
And my mate at school saying there is no such thing as a soft mod! Haha
I recall our progression was chipmod, drivemod, softmod- really didn’t use the softmod much because we had so many chipmodded devices, but we didn’t do much online then.
Soft modding the Wii was much more common.
Soft modding the Wii was much more common.
I guess the younger generation grew up with unmoddable consoles, so the concept is less known nowadays. The older audience immediately knows that it's for. You can run free homebrew apps, games, and if you really wanted, with a little more code, run pirated copies of retail games, and cheats. If you had a PS1 or Xbox, you got it modchipped by some classmate, everyone did in the 2000s, it was rampant, at least at my school. I still remember bunnie, who was famous online for first hacking the xbox. Hardmods required some soldering, Softmods just required a particular game and flashdrive. This new one just requires a memory card. They didn't fully softmod it for legal reasons but they did the hard part. Since it's such an old console, it's really just a novelty that they found another method.
PS3, PS4, Xbox, PSP, DS, vita, switch and maybe PS5 all have hacks.
Phones came out and killed homebrew. Now the developers developed cool super compatible stuff without needing you to hack the hardware plus games became stagnant on consoles. The PSP when I bought it was known as a boring rehash console with nothing but re-releases but the hardware made it worth it.
Phones came out and killed homebrew. Now the developers developed cool super compatible stuff without needing you to hack the hardware plus games became stagnant on consoles. The PSP when I bought it was known as a boring rehash console with nothing but re-releases but the hardware made it worth it.
Considering how often ModernVintageGamer uploads videos about new (and old) homebrew hacks, i do not think homebrew is that dead :-P.
Back in the 2000s homebrew served a practical purpose, today it's just a novelty. I can run Sega games on a WiiU, sure, or virtually anything else.
2000s homebrew powered things like XBMC which were many people’s first introduction to the reality that hard drives had far outstripped DVDs in capacity.
Beyond the usual (i.e. loading ones own code on something one owns), is "because it's there" not sufficient?
It’s a great platform for emulating anything up to the original playstation
Things like this are just cool, prevent e-waste, and preserve cultural heritage.