Mexican Computers: A Brief Technical and Historical Overview(arxiv.org)
arxiv.org
Mexican Computers: A Brief Technical and Historical Overview
https://arxiv.org/abs/2406.04912
37 comments
My friend has been making a working replica of the Patinho Feio. As I happen to know Portuguese, I translated some of his materials about this project, including making English subtitles for his (very wide-ranging) university lecture about the project.
https://forum.fiozera.com.br/t/historical-preservation-of-th...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaDzfq42B-g
(Maybe I'll feel silly about having done this at some point, because AI translation is getting so good...)
There's an amazing amount of material about this computer available online now. Lots of manuals, interviews, images, and so on. It must have been really exciting to be involved with that project in the early 1970s. (As I understanding it, an American electrical engineer who had worked with computer architecture was a visiting professor at the Universidade de São Paulo at that time, and led the students through many of the necessary steps -- but all of the implementation and design, down to the instruction set with its Portuguese-language mnemonics, was the students' own work.)
In his lecture, he notes that ITA (Instituto Tecnológico de Aeronaútica) actually turns out to have made its own computer even earlier than USP's Patinho Feio, but there's almost no documentation of any kind about ITA's machine available, whereas USP students published various theses related to the Patinho Feio and preserved extensive documentation and even physical artifacts and software related to it. He thus calls the ITA computer the "0th Brazilian computer".
https://forum.fiozera.com.br/t/historical-preservation-of-th...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaDzfq42B-g
(Maybe I'll feel silly about having done this at some point, because AI translation is getting so good...)
There's an amazing amount of material about this computer available online now. Lots of manuals, interviews, images, and so on. It must have been really exciting to be involved with that project in the early 1970s. (As I understanding it, an American electrical engineer who had worked with computer architecture was a visiting professor at the Universidade de São Paulo at that time, and led the students through many of the necessary steps -- but all of the implementation and design, down to the instruction set with its Portuguese-language mnemonics, was the students' own work.)
In his lecture, he notes that ITA (Instituto Tecnológico de Aeronaútica) actually turns out to have made its own computer even earlier than USP's Patinho Feio, but there's almost no documentation of any kind about ITA's machine available, whereas USP students published various theses related to the Patinho Feio and preserved extensive documentation and even physical artifacts and software related to it. He thus calls the ITA computer the "0th Brazilian computer".
Brazil had a rich home computer industry in the 80s - although a lot of it were slightly modified clones (but not all).
The paper talks about Brazil in the conclusion:
> In contrast to Mexico[;] Brazil, Singapore, South Korea, and Taiwan invested heavily in technological development in the 1980s. Brazil's case is significant because this country has many similarities to Mexico in terms of its economic and industrial development. Unlike Mexico, Brazil had relative success in creating a computer industry capable of producing its own technology. This was partly due to the decisive support from public and private sectors to create and continue developing a national computer industry.
> In contrast to Mexico[;] Brazil, Singapore, South Korea, and Taiwan invested heavily in technological development in the 1980s. Brazil's case is significant because this country has many similarities to Mexico in terms of its economic and industrial development. Unlike Mexico, Brazil had relative success in creating a computer industry capable of producing its own technology. This was partly due to the decisive support from public and private sectors to create and continue developing a national computer industry.
AI & Society Vol 37, Issue 3 has several articles on the history of cybernetics and computation across Mexico, Brazil, and other Latin American countries, for anyone interested in further reading.
https://link.springer.com/journal/146/volumes-and-issues/37-...
https://link.springer.com/journal/146/volumes-and-issues/37-...
Brazil has a pretty rich home car manufacturing scene- learned about it in this Donut video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8FFzS_CIHE
It looks small for the time.
Here is the original paper in Spanish: https://www.ru.tic.unam.mx/bitstream/handle/123456789/1415/a...
There are two stages really, right? Pre-microprocessor, it takes some effort to put together a programmable computer. Although now even amateurs implement computers based on 74-series and memory chips without a microprocessor.
After the microprocessor, it was truly very manageable for an amateur anywhere to build a computer. A handful of chips get you there, with no requirement for elaborate PCB or routing. Wikipedia lists the Mark-8 as first published and available as kit, in 1974 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark-8 - from a chemistry grad student. So, any country is now in. No problem. And "more interesting" university or research projects shift to LISP machines, multiprocessors, coprocessors, etc, or the VLSI chips themselves. Which does not prevent countries from promoting "national microcomputers" (including OS and programming language translated in the local language). Around microprocessors what is also interesting in this second phase are the commercial and "industry" development attempts in various countries as described by Asianometry.
After the microprocessor, it was truly very manageable for an amateur anywhere to build a computer. A handful of chips get you there, with no requirement for elaborate PCB or routing. Wikipedia lists the Mark-8 as first published and available as kit, in 1974 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark-8 - from a chemistry grad student. So, any country is now in. No problem. And "more interesting" university or research projects shift to LISP machines, multiprocessors, coprocessors, etc, or the VLSI chips themselves. Which does not prevent countries from promoting "national microcomputers" (including OS and programming language translated in the local language). Around microprocessors what is also interesting in this second phase are the commercial and "industry" development attempts in various countries as described by Asianometry.
Thanks for sharing. What surprised me was that there was one group that tried to pull of parallel LISP on Z80s whereas the rest seem to be keen to use existing technology (no own operating system, no own microprocessor chip designs attempted).
Minor corrections: Table 1. "intepreter" -> "interpreter"; "Hasta 64" -> "up to 64"
"Unfortunately, [...] the lack of collaboration and coordination among the various groups designing computers inMexico, and the lack of communication between industry and academia hindered the country's further development in this field."
Minor corrections: Table 1. "intepreter" -> "interpreter"; "Hasta 64" -> "up to 64"
Brazil had government incentives for fomenting the national industry as well as high taxation to deter imports.
Nowadays only the high taxes remain (effectively a 100% tax), the current government is trying to implement new incentives to rebuild the national industry though.
Also, I feel Mexico by being under strong influence of the US has been kind of sabotaged economically, while Brazil together with neighboring countries tried to develop a local market (MercoSul).
Nowadays only the high taxes remain (effectively a 100% tax), the current government is trying to implement new incentives to rebuild the national industry though.
Also, I feel Mexico by being under strong influence of the US has been kind of sabotaged economically, while Brazil together with neighboring countries tried to develop a local market (MercoSul).
My suspicion is that Mexico has had either strong state industry periods or strong private industry periods, but seldom a combination.
Brazil strikes me as having a decent history of industrial policy with the government partnering with private industry.
That's why you have what I think it's a freer market in Mexico but stronger tech-heavy corporations in Brazil (eg embraer).
Brazil strikes me as having a decent history of industrial policy with the government partnering with private industry.
That's why you have what I think it's a freer market in Mexico but stronger tech-heavy corporations in Brazil (eg embraer).
I wonder if there are just geopolitical or demographic issues. Brazil is larger than Mexico by a bit, there are a lot more Spanish speaking countries. Spain and Mexico are similar sizes, while Brazil is much larger than Portugal, plus Mexico has to deal with the US, and our endless appetite for talented people, being right next door…
Mexico is 4 times bigger than Spain.
Sorry, I meant in terms of GDP (I figure that maps better to ability to make new big investments in this kind of stuff) but I was really not clear.
This paper is wrong if the article "History of computing in South America" at Wikipedia is right [1]: the first computer arrived in Chile in 1957, not in Mexico.
There is another issue. Here [2] where the first computer in Brazil also arrives in 1957 and it is not included in [1]:
> 1957 - A Univac-120 arrived, the first computer in Brazil, acquired by the Government of the State of São Paulo, it was used to calculate all water consumption in the capital. It occupied the entire floor of the building where it was installed. Equipped with 4,500 valves, it performed 12,000 additions or subtractions per minute and 2,400 multiplications or divisions at the same time.
So, we need to check which of those two computers arrived earlier.
BTW, there is an article about Argentina and computers in a complex political moment [3] (as usual). It also touches the computer science field itself beyond the hardware involved.
The first computer built in Latam was in Argentina, it started in 1958 and was finished around 1962 [4].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computing_in_South_...
[2] https://tpilmg.wixsite.com/tpilmg/en/historia-dos-computador...
[3] The First Decade of Computer Science in Argentina: https://sedici.unlp.edu.ar/bitstream/handle/10915/24033/Docu...
[4] https://mapmeld.medium.com/first-computer-by-country-81fa479...
There is another issue. Here [2] where the first computer in Brazil also arrives in 1957 and it is not included in [1]:
> 1957 - A Univac-120 arrived, the first computer in Brazil, acquired by the Government of the State of São Paulo, it was used to calculate all water consumption in the capital. It occupied the entire floor of the building where it was installed. Equipped with 4,500 valves, it performed 12,000 additions or subtractions per minute and 2,400 multiplications or divisions at the same time.
So, we need to check which of those two computers arrived earlier.
BTW, there is an article about Argentina and computers in a complex political moment [3] (as usual). It also touches the computer science field itself beyond the hardware involved.
The first computer built in Latam was in Argentina, it started in 1958 and was finished around 1962 [4].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computing_in_South_...
[2] https://tpilmg.wixsite.com/tpilmg/en/historia-dos-computador...
[3] The First Decade of Computer Science in Argentina: https://sedici.unlp.edu.ar/bitstream/handle/10915/24033/Docu...
[4] https://mapmeld.medium.com/first-computer-by-country-81fa479...
This article has July 18, 1957 as the date for the Univac 120's arrival in Brazil: https://comp.ita.br/iec/
Most other sources just mention the year.
Most other sources just mention the year.
Chile (South america) is not in the same continent as Mexico (North america).
The way it is phrased is prone to confusion but article says: "This date marks a milestone in the history of computing in Latin America, as the IBM-650 was the first electronic computer to operate on this continent, south of the Rio Grande."
"This continent" meaning North America, not Latin America (which is not a continent).
The way it is phrased is prone to confusion but article says: "This date marks a milestone in the history of computing in Latin America, as the IBM-650 was the first electronic computer to operate on this continent, south of the Rio Grande."
"This continent" meaning North America, not Latin America (which is not a continent).
> Chile (South america) is not in the same continent as Mexico (North america).
The distinction is region-dependent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas#Spanish
The distinction is region-dependent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas#Spanish
It is not region-dependent but language dependent and even yet I don't think the distinction is universal. The article is written in english which is important here.
Besides, many Mexican people will roll eyes if people say they are not from north america, complain if they are described as central americans yet embrace the idea they are part of latin america which obviously Suriname, France or Guyana aren't part of. OTOH people from europe will usually say Mexico are part of central america. Some historians would say that only one part of Mexico is part of central america (usually called Mesoamérica).
So the answer is "it's complicated" but I tend to steer towards how people living there describe themselves.
Besides, many Mexican people will roll eyes if people say they are not from north america, complain if they are described as central americans yet embrace the idea they are part of latin america which obviously Suriname, France or Guyana aren't part of. OTOH people from europe will usually say Mexico are part of central america. Some historians would say that only one part of Mexico is part of central america (usually called Mesoamérica).
So the answer is "it's complicated" but I tend to steer towards how people living there describe themselves.
> The article is written in english which is important here.
From said article:
> This paper is a translation of the original paper in Spanish “Computadoras Mexicanas: Una Breve Reseña Técnica e Histórica” by Daniel Ortiz Arroyo, Francisco Rodríguez Henríquez, Carlos A. Coello Coello
From said article:
> This paper is a translation of the original paper in Spanish “Computadoras Mexicanas: Una Breve Reseña Técnica e Histórica” by Daniel Ortiz Arroyo, Francisco Rodríguez Henríquez, Carlos A. Coello Coello
Not wanting to argue forever but isn't the job of the translator to adapt the text to the language used? Unless we read original version we can't know for sure which word they used.
EDIT: it is actually available and they phrase it pretty much the same way: https://www.ru.tic.unam.mx/bitstream/handle/123456789/1415/a... "esta fecha marca un hito en la historia de la informática en Latinoamérica, pues la IBM-650 fue la primera computadora electrónica en operar en este continente, al sur del río Bravo."
Given the authors are mexicans and my experience with mexican people, I still believe they mean north america when they say "continente". There is a reason the concept of panamericanismo/pan-america exists to describe something that has to do with all american countries. But I agree how confusing it can be for someone living in another country where they mean continent as the whole uninterrupted piece of land inbetween the pacific and the atlantic ocean.
EDIT: it is actually available and they phrase it pretty much the same way: https://www.ru.tic.unam.mx/bitstream/handle/123456789/1415/a... "esta fecha marca un hito en la historia de la informática en Latinoamérica, pues la IBM-650 fue la primera computadora electrónica en operar en este continente, al sur del río Bravo."
Given the authors are mexicans and my experience with mexican people, I still believe they mean north america when they say "continente". There is a reason the concept of panamericanismo/pan-america exists to describe something that has to do with all american countries. But I agree how confusing it can be for someone living in another country where they mean continent as the whole uninterrupted piece of land inbetween the pacific and the atlantic ocean.
I am confused now. Are you arguing then that the distinction is dependent on region and not language? Because that is precisely what I said in a previous comment.
My guess it is both based on both your link and my experience. My experience is limited to Mexico. I can't speak for others and it could very well be that the notion of continent in Mexico, and for example Chile or any other latin american country may vary.
The paper notes: "Thus, an annual conference called 'Computers and Their Applications' was organized. It is interesting to note that the third edition of that conference, held in 1961, featured lectures by professors John McCarthy, Marvin L. Minsky6, and Harold V. McIntosh [9]." That conference was also known as the First International LISP Conference -- see https://mcjones.org/dustydecks/the-first-international-lisp-...
Not a single mention of the Toledo family ...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28337064
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28337064
My thoughts exactly. More HN links here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39307700
That's like failing to mention TempleOS in an article about operating systems.
Indeed. It would be a glaring omission.
Someone is gonna do a dissertation on TempleOS one day
It’s a shame
I used to assemble Dell's Optiplex 486s at factory in North Austin back in the day (early 90s) before DELL move to Round Rock. Some of the components like the daughter board (a riser board to connect your LAN card or Souncard) was made in Mexico, among other parts.
Great article.
> include a small but rich (and sometimes astonishing) variety of systems ranging from research and teaching-oriented computers to high-performance personal computers.
Why exactly would it be "astonishing?"
Why exactly would it be "astonishing?"
You'd have to ask the author, perhaps in 2024 he found the notion that Mexican engineers built a parallel computer based on data flow that executed LISP programs in 1979 (and onwards for a few years) to be astounding.
I was not aware about these Mexican computers. The fact that they had computers that could be programmed in LISP, not only in Assembly, is very cool.