Starlink's first constellation of direct-to-phone satellites is now in orbit(newatlas.com)
newatlas.com
Starlink's first constellation of direct-to-phone satellites is now in orbit
https://newatlas.com/technology/starlink-direct-to-phone-satellites-orbit/
120 comments
The biggest reason I'm happy about this: while Starlink currently cooperates with local governments, that's not a technical limitation, and a flip of a switch would let every cell phone in a country have unfiltered connectivity. That's a powerful tool to have readily available, the next time an oppressive regime tries to prevent people from communicating and reporting.
Something tells me Musk is not going to be on the side you think he's going to be on in that scenario.
It has already happened: https://iranwire.com/en/technology/133773-iranians-defy-inte...
He seems to be leaning pretty strongly antigovernment at the moment.
No, he's leaning strongly anti-regulation, particularly those that impede his businesses. He's big on government because that's a major part of his revenue (DOD, NASA, and various TLAs). He's not big on the parts of government that slow him down or would cause his taxes to be higher for things he doesn't care about.
This is almost true.
The real story is that he's anti-anti-competition. His competitors in particular already have deep ties with the government and its various departments. Companies like Boeing, Lockheed, etc. have engaged in deep regulatory capture to prevent competition from emerging.
These already established corporations have a revolving door with the government and that's the real impediment. That's what he's against.
So while you're right about his self interests, I think it's important to clarify that the decades long entrenchment of these various incumbent corporations is why this is all happening in the first place.
That's the real reason.
The real story is that he's anti-anti-competition. His competitors in particular already have deep ties with the government and its various departments. Companies like Boeing, Lockheed, etc. have engaged in deep regulatory capture to prevent competition from emerging.
These already established corporations have a revolving door with the government and that's the real impediment. That's what he's against.
So while you're right about his self interests, I think it's important to clarify that the decades long entrenchment of these various incumbent corporations is why this is all happening in the first place.
That's the real reason.
It's quite simply about efficiency.
Yes, efficiency for his businesses and interests.
A more efficient government helps everyone.
The reason for a lot of government inefficiency is checks and balances. If we did away with those it would be really efficient.
No, a more efficient government would help those easiest to help, and not help those who were expensive or difficult to help.
Unless you just mean we could do exactly the same things, but more efficiently. But that is not what is meant; it means stopping doing a lot of things.
Unless you just mean we could do exactly the same things, but more efficiently. But that is not what is meant; it means stopping doing a lot of things.
Making Chinese EV cars more expensive seems less efficient as people will have to spend more money for the same commodity.
In principle. But targeted "efficiency" improvements that aid Musk's interests selected by Musk are not necessarily going to help anyone but Musk.
I recall he had to retool factories for the model 3 due to automating things before they were ready
Very efficient
Very efficient
Have I missed something? Last time I blinked he seemed to be looking at a pretty active role in the next US administration
His and Ramaswamy's roles will be advisory, and specifically targeting cutting government spending. This is not a pro-government thing except that they both have significant conflicts of interests which will influence which parts of government they suggest cutting and which they suggest leaving more or less intact.
Using regulatory capture to further your own economic interests is still pro government, it's just that it's a government aimed at meeting the needs of a very small number of oligarchs rather than the majority of the population.
>>which will influence
which <could> influence
which <could> influence
Only if one is super human would it not.
Musk said there are over four hundred federal agencies, that's more than the number of states.
California has more agencies than the number of states of California!
Using the number of states as some yardstick makes zero sense: merging multiple current states into one wouldn’t make our society less complex.
Using the number of states as some yardstick makes zero sense: merging multiple current states into one wouldn’t make our society less complex.
> Musk said there are over four hundred federal agencies, that's more than the number of states.
That's a silly way to weigh your decisions and valuations. "There are more than four hundred federal employees, that's more than the number of states."
The number of agencies is itself mostly irrelevant, it's their individual size, effectiveness, and appropriateness that matters. Do all of them need to exist? Almost certainly not. But do we need to cut it down to one per US state? That's an arbitrary and useless target.
That's a silly way to weigh your decisions and valuations. "There are more than four hundred federal employees, that's more than the number of states."
The number of agencies is itself mostly irrelevant, it's their individual size, effectiveness, and appropriateness that matters. Do all of them need to exist? Almost certainly not. But do we need to cut it down to one per US state? That's an arbitrary and useless target.
> But do we need to cut it down to one per US state?
I'm sure they could be reduced down to similar areas of operation. One of the first to be cut being The California High-Speed Rail Authority (CHSRA). Who has so-far spent 16 years building 119 miles of track at a cost of $14 billion. That's roughly $66,845 per yard.
I'm sure they could be reduced down to similar areas of operation. One of the first to be cut being The California High-Speed Rail Authority (CHSRA). Who has so-far spent 16 years building 119 miles of track at a cost of $14 billion. That's roughly $66,845 per yard.
That's a state agency, outside of the scope of DOGE except that it receives some (probably a lot of) federal funding. If you want this to be a serious discussion don't suggest cutting agencies because of the total count of agencies or cutting state agencies in a discussion about federal agencies.
The role is in killing off large parts of the federal govt
He's literally part of the Trump government and isn't leaving his site for the last weeks. He hasn't been seen anywhere even near his own offices which he makes his employees go to.
How can you POSSIBLY state he is "strongly antigovernment"
How can you POSSIBLY state he is "strongly antigovernment"
> He hasn't been seen anywhere even near his own offices which he makes his employees go to.
uh, what do you base this on? it sort of seems like made up bullshit, especially because it's easily disproven by tracking his jet and seeing that it's visiting the locations of his offices in both california and austin frequently. there's even a video of him in one of his offices literally yesterday as he did a zoom meeting for WSJ.
i don't understand why people just blatantly lie like this
uh, what do you base this on? it sort of seems like made up bullshit, especially because it's easily disproven by tracking his jet and seeing that it's visiting the locations of his offices in both california and austin frequently. there's even a video of him in one of his offices literally yesterday as he did a zoom meeting for WSJ.
i don't understand why people just blatantly lie like this
Musk not, but the US government actually has powerful levers at its hand to force his cooperation if necessary. If all things fail, arrest him and nationalize his assets. It's not the first time someone who thought themselves to be above the law got eventually rear-ended by it - remember Al Capone, they got him on tax evasion in the end.
There are only three known entities to have bested the US government in many decades - Vietnam, Scientology and the Taliban. Musk is better advised that it's a foolish attempt to become the fourth one.
There are only three known entities to have bested the US government in many decades - Vietnam, Scientology and the Taliban. Musk is better advised that it's a foolish attempt to become the fourth one.
What makes you think the US government will be on your side?
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Master of root on the computer, master of all mankind. That's why I demand the government ban all closed source software. Or they will feel my wrath.
> the US government actually has powerful levers at its hand to force his cooperation if necessary
The scenarios you put forth here are effectively not happening. This is not a communist+dictator state (where this is much easier) nor does one branch have the power to unilaterally decide this.
The only time nationalization of a private service should happen in our country is wartime, specifically WWIII has to happen and on US soil. WW2 never saw this, nor did it need to.
The scenarios you put forth here are effectively not happening. This is not a communist+dictator state (where this is much easier) nor does one branch have the power to unilaterally decide this.
The only time nationalization of a private service should happen in our country is wartime, specifically WWIII has to happen and on US soil. WW2 never saw this, nor did it need to.
> This is not a communist+dictator state (where this is much easier) nor does one branch have the power to unilaterally decide this.
The Supreme Court practically gave the President full immunity as long as they are in office, Congress is gridlocked and governing has happened mostly through executive orders for decades now.
Assuming a President (and no matter who it is) gives the orders, they will get executed as given - and any kind of protest will be dealt with in the courts, in a process that will likely take years.
> The only time nationalization of a private service should happen in our country is wartime
The US has been at war for the utter majority of the last decades. Vietnam, Libya 1, Iraq 1, Balkans, Afghanistan, Iraq 2, Libya 2, Yemen, and that's just the major ones where the US were an active combattant.
The Supreme Court practically gave the President full immunity as long as they are in office, Congress is gridlocked and governing has happened mostly through executive orders for decades now.
Assuming a President (and no matter who it is) gives the orders, they will get executed as given - and any kind of protest will be dealt with in the courts, in a process that will likely take years.
> The only time nationalization of a private service should happen in our country is wartime
The US has been at war for the utter majority of the last decades. Vietnam, Libya 1, Iraq 1, Balkans, Afghanistan, Iraq 2, Libya 2, Yemen, and that's just the major ones where the US were an active combattant.
Musk is better advised that it's a foolish attempt to become the fourth one.
Instead he managed to pull off a trick that not even Capone and Scientology were bold enough to try.
He became the government.
Instead he managed to pull off a trick that not even Capone and Scientology were bold enough to try.
He became the government.
becoming the government has an expiration date (with post-expiration date consequences which for him will be severe).
boldness or foolishness to become government we shall see…
boldness or foolishness to become government we shall see…
You may not have heard the news but but Musk is the government now.
Advisory is not IN.
Advisors can be in government… if it’s a government department even an advisory one, it’s part of government… and thus its employees are in government.
Except in this case it's a department in name only, it is not an actual part of the US government.
It’s currently just in name only. But that is likely to change soon in some form yet to be revealed when the new government is sworn in.
So legally it isn’t in government yet, however as it is officially part of the elected governments plans, you can make a sensible argument that it is part of the incoming transitional government that has been elected and while having now power due to not being sworn in yet, is indeed part of government by nature transition teams and the president elect having status in government by way of things like security briefings and other rights and privileges normally only held by the incumbent government like increased security protection…
It would be like saying a government in exile (a well established precedent of history) isn’t a government and none of the people in it are in government…
So legally it isn’t in government yet, however as it is officially part of the elected governments plans, you can make a sensible argument that it is part of the incoming transitional government that has been elected and while having now power due to not being sworn in yet, is indeed part of government by nature transition teams and the president elect having status in government by way of things like security briefings and other rights and privileges normally only held by the incumbent government like increased security protection…
It would be like saying a government in exile (a well established precedent of history) isn’t a government and none of the people in it are in government…
It is not going to become an actual part of the federal government, as a new agency, unless Congress makes it an agency. And if they do, then Musk likely would not make the transition to head it as that would involve too many conflicts of interest for him (at least if we still consider laws as things that matter in this country, that is definitely a concept that's quickly being discarded by both the elected leadership and the electorate so you may be right).
Ok, I’m really not sure why the simple answer isn’t getting across here.
His position as co-head of the nominal “department of government efficiency” only exists due to the legitimacy it has been granted by the recognition granted to it by the incoming administration… otherwise we would all be calling it some variety of the first buddy’s pet think tank and arguing over if the incoming administration would even pay attention to it or not… that is a government granted position of power, a position that it is pretty hard to argue is not part of the government that grants it legitimacy… therefore making it a position in government… even if it’s unpaid and advisory… it’s still practically in the government if not legally (for all the conflict of interest reasons you highlight)…
I’m not trying to make a civics or political science case here… I’m talking politics as the exercise of power by government upon the governed… he is currently having breakfast lunch and dinner with the incoming president, making arguments and shaping the cabinet, and contributing to the transition team… he’s involved with government… he’s “in” it.
His position as co-head of the nominal “department of government efficiency” only exists due to the legitimacy it has been granted by the recognition granted to it by the incoming administration… otherwise we would all be calling it some variety of the first buddy’s pet think tank and arguing over if the incoming administration would even pay attention to it or not… that is a government granted position of power, a position that it is pretty hard to argue is not part of the government that grants it legitimacy… therefore making it a position in government… even if it’s unpaid and advisory… it’s still practically in the government if not legally (for all the conflict of interest reasons you highlight)…
I’m not trying to make a civics or political science case here… I’m talking politics as the exercise of power by government upon the governed… he is currently having breakfast lunch and dinner with the incoming president, making arguments and shaping the cabinet, and contributing to the transition team… he’s involved with government… he’s “in” it.
Conflicts of interest didn't seem to bother the President elect.
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Yes, in THIS case, it is JUST advisory.
Starlink needs to interface with a local operator which you as an end user need to have an account with.
So a government could easily block this.
Also the bandwidth is too limited to allow every cell phone in a country to have access.
So a government could easily block this.
Also the bandwidth is too limited to allow every cell phone in a country to have access.
They don't technically need to do that – that's only necessary because they don't have any spectrum themselves, nor the required telecommunication service licenses.
I guess GP is alluding to the fact that they might choose to just ignore these facts in some cases.
I guess GP is alluding to the fact that they might choose to just ignore these facts in some cases.
Precisely. They've already talked about the capability to relay satellite-to-satellite, rather than relying on a ground station near the user.
Gosh you delusional or brainwashed on "rule based world order", where "cooperating with local government" in your statement in reality means "while foreign government behaves like our vassals and country is our colony".
What this tool allows US state is to circumvent foreigns government sovereignty and ultimately, directly guide people through communication channels via psychological operations.
By inverse(contradiction), observe what happens with TikTok, Huawei or "Chinese ballons" within US borders.
What this tool allows US state is to circumvent foreigns government sovereignty and ultimately, directly guide people through communication channels via psychological operations.
By inverse(contradiction), observe what happens with TikTok, Huawei or "Chinese ballons" within US borders.
It would also be a blatant violation of international law and set a precedent for all kinds of undesirable things.
Would you enjoy waking up to propaganda blasted to your phone as a non-silence-able "Presidential Alert" in retaliation?
Would you enjoy waking up to propaganda blasted to your phone as a non-silence-able "Presidential Alert" in retaliation?
Starlink in Iran and Venezuela
Does it really work in Iran? That would be a US embargo violation on top of an international law one, right?
I suppose they could make the case that it’s technically infeasible to limit their satellite beam footprints that granularly (like it used to be the case for non-spotbeam services), and that their service limitation works on the basis of billing addresses, not physical cells – except that they seem to be very capable of enforcing that to distinguish mobile from stationary plans, and ocean from land areas.
I suppose they could make the case that it’s technically infeasible to limit their satellite beam footprints that granularly (like it used to be the case for non-spotbeam services), and that their service limitation works on the basis of billing addresses, not physical cells – except that they seem to be very capable of enforcing that to distinguish mobile from stationary plans, and ocean from land areas.
Yes. They've lost at least two lawsuits at the ITU.
The US has granted SpaceX a sanctions waiver.
The US has granted SpaceX a sanctions waiver.
Which international law this violates?
People spew this international law nonsense too much. If there is convention that has been signed and ratified by member states there is no law….
People spew this international law nonsense too much. If there is convention that has been signed and ratified by member states there is no law….
Provided Musk sees a positive ROI to flexing that particular muscle, of course
It is a technical limitation lmao. The internet is still down here. Starlink is a network managed by humans who live on planet earth. And the starlink constellation is constantly replacing satellites lost to attrition.
Lets say he flipped that switch, anywhere else but the US. They would: Ban Starlink devices for the sake of it. Block / Filter Starlink IP Addresses. Shut down Starlink ground stations, and tear up telco licenses of anyone who does business with them. Reallocate the frequencies Starlink pays to broadcast on, likely heavily deteriorating the service. Arrest anyone affiliated with Starlink in country.
If they did it in seppoland they could go one better and just prevent new satellite launches.
Heck, he shut down starlink in Ukraine because he is on board with Putin.
You arent magically free of earthbound constraints, you just have a new one, Musk.
Lets say he flipped that switch, anywhere else but the US. They would: Ban Starlink devices for the sake of it. Block / Filter Starlink IP Addresses. Shut down Starlink ground stations, and tear up telco licenses of anyone who does business with them. Reallocate the frequencies Starlink pays to broadcast on, likely heavily deteriorating the service. Arrest anyone affiliated with Starlink in country.
If they did it in seppoland they could go one better and just prevent new satellite launches.
Heck, he shut down starlink in Ukraine because he is on board with Putin.
You arent magically free of earthbound constraints, you just have a new one, Musk.
Yes, North Koreans are clamoring to use this. /s
Things like this are paraded around as helpful for people in oppressive regimes when in reality they're more useful for building a bigger surveillance state in the West.
Things like this are paraded around as helpful for people in oppressive regimes when in reality they're more useful for building a bigger surveillance state in the West.
Do we have evidence musk wants to help the state with surveillance? The real use case is having connectivity in remote areas imo
SpaceX has been building a spy network for the US government for a while now:
https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/musks-spacex-is-bui...
https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/musks-spacex-is-bui...
Devil's advocate here but global spying isn't the same as surveillance state. For in country surveillance there's enough CCTV to not even need satellites
Kind of is. All the five eyes have reciprocal agreements to trade data. If they cant legally watch you another nation probably can.
Spying on foreign countries for the US gov is not the same as spying on citizens of foreign countries and providing that information to their government
I'm really a big fan of the technology, but even I have to admit that it can most likely be used for surveillance just as easily as it can be for providing legitimate cell service.
Cellular protocols have a very bad security track record, and this is built on the exact same standards.
Cellular protocols have a very bad security track record, and this is built on the exact same standards.
You don't need to want to. If you have the data you can be subpoenaed for it.
they seemed to enjoy the internet access in russia
Musk has controlled access per political aims, and is also in close contact with Putin and US intelligence, so why do you feel this tech will be anti oppression?
Because it's something that didn't exist before that could be enabled.
Even if Musk only does it when it suits him it's still an overall improvement.
Even if Musk only does it when it suits him it's still an overall improvement.
Starlink is providing internet for the Ukrainian government since the beginning of the war, which they gave away for free until the US government started paying for it.
Iran and Venezuela
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Previous similar posts on HN:
Starlink Direct to Cell (799 comments):
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42230103
Starlink Successfully Tests Space Direct to Cell Mobile Service (204 comments):
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38982389
Starlink Direct to Cell (799 comments):
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42230103
Starlink Successfully Tests Space Direct to Cell Mobile Service (204 comments):
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38982389
I know this says it will work on existing phones without modification, but will it work with all existing LTE phones, or just the ones with a new-enough modem?
For example, the Pixel 9 has a Exynos 5400 modem, which advertises satellite connectivity as one of its features. The upcoming Pixel 9a will use the older Exynos 5300, which does not have that same satellite feature.
It's not clear (to me) whether the newer modem's satellite feature refers to this or something else. Will the Pixel 9a be able to use this Starlink service once both are available to the general public?
For example, the Pixel 9 has a Exynos 5400 modem, which advertises satellite connectivity as one of its features. The upcoming Pixel 9a will use the older Exynos 5300, which does not have that same satellite feature.
It's not clear (to me) whether the newer modem's satellite feature refers to this or something else. Will the Pixel 9a be able to use this Starlink service once both are available to the general public?
I thought that "modem's satellite feature" is usually the Apple-like emergency SOS which requires special hardware to literally contact a satellite.
This is not that, this is seemingly LTE via satellite. I assume via some beamforming higher power signals, but I could be very wrong.
Edit: From SpaceX [1]
In addition to expanding mobile coverage, Direct to Cell will enable ubiquitous Internet of Things (IoT) connectivity outside of terrestrial coverage, connecting millions of devices across critical global industries.
• No specialized or additional hardware required • Compatible with off-the-shelf CAT-1, CAT-1 Bis, and CAT-4 modems* • Plans available via our global partners in approved countries starting in 2025
[1] https://www.starlink.com/business/direct-to-cell
This is not that, this is seemingly LTE via satellite. I assume via some beamforming higher power signals, but I could be very wrong.
Edit: From SpaceX [1]
In addition to expanding mobile coverage, Direct to Cell will enable ubiquitous Internet of Things (IoT) connectivity outside of terrestrial coverage, connecting millions of devices across critical global industries.
• No specialized or additional hardware required • Compatible with off-the-shelf CAT-1, CAT-1 Bis, and CAT-4 modems* • Plans available via our global partners in approved countries starting in 2025
[1] https://www.starlink.com/business/direct-to-cell
It's not as crazy as it first sounds. In the lower frequency bands assigned to LTE and 5G (600/700/850MHz) that are meant for rural base stations are essentially limited by line of sight when talking about traditional base stations.
A 100m/300ft radio tower can see about 40km, just one order of magnitude less than the distance to a Starlink satellite. We know phones can reach base stations at least twice as far away as our theoretical 100m tower because of quotes about the ranges of base stations on mountains. The rest they likely make up with better beam forming and relative lack of reflections when communicating with a satellite overhead
A 100m/300ft radio tower can see about 40km, just one order of magnitude less than the distance to a Starlink satellite. We know phones can reach base stations at least twice as far away as our theoretical 100m tower because of quotes about the ranges of base stations on mountains. The rest they likely make up with better beam forming and relative lack of reflections when communicating with a satellite overhead
Also, the effects of atmosphere reduce after the first 20km or so.
Yes, it'll be regular LTE phones, no satellite functionality needed.
What the Pixel uses is 5G NTN, powered by Skylo, I believe – that's a satellite-specific stack, but if you were to use a Pixel on T-Mobile via Starlink, that would be the regular LTE stack it also contains.
What the Pixel uses is 5G NTN, powered by Skylo, I believe – that's a satellite-specific stack, but if you were to use a Pixel on T-Mobile via Starlink, that would be the regular LTE stack it also contains.
Has anyone on here tried this out? Any comments on quality/reliability/etc?
I frequently get out into the backcountry here in Colorado, and would love to have an affordable sat phone.
I frequently get out into the backcountry here in Colorado, and would love to have an affordable sat phone.
Tangentially, as a fellow CO backcountry enjoyer, since iOS launched satellite messaging i’ve been using boltwx[1] for weather reports and it’s amazing. I created an iOS shortcut to build the message with coordinates so after acquiring a satellite signal it’s just a quick button press to get weather in the backcountry.
I was considering getting an inreach before trying the service.
[1] https://www.boltwx.com/
I was considering getting an inreach before trying the service.
[1] https://www.boltwx.com/
Very interesting, thank you!
I wonder how Apple thinks about services like this? Do you know if this is using "iMessage for business" or is otherwise blessed by Apple?
I wonder how Apple thinks about services like this? Do you know if this is using "iMessage for business" or is otherwise blessed by Apple?
It has potential to be incredible from a safety perspective and will save lives (I have an inreach but there are many people in the backcountry who don't, which makes sense given the cost and pricing model). I look forward to seeing the reliability data -- reliability is the one thing that kept me on inreach when the iOS sat feature came out.
I don’t think it’s publicly available yet.
I'm amazed at the pace at which this company ships. Probably faster than many software companies. But they're putting satellites in orbit...
Crazy government money printer at work, everything is subsidised. Observe insane inflation as byproduct. And Musk is ideal distraction in the form of benevolent visionary for multi-planetary dream, while in reality the only ones who pays for all this infrastructure in low earth orbit are pentagon with Starshield project behind the curtains that eats whole planet SIGINT with a motto similar to "nothing is beyond our reach"
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NROL_39_vector_logo....
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NROL_39_vector_logo....
Does this mean global stingray capability?
The United States has a limited capability to track targeted cell phone communications anywhere in the world.
The Orion-class Signals Intelligence satellites are claimed to be the largest in space, with a primary dish diameter of about 100 meters.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_(satellite)
The Green Bank radio telescope is a dish on that scale, and it looks just wrong, too large to be real. The usual portrait shot doesn't do it justice, but try to put a mental image together from the photos up on the Commons:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Green_Bank_Tel...
I spent a week out there during its construction. There were contractor shacks - cargo container size - up there on the platform at the base of the elevation gear (photo labeled "Altitude" on the page linked above).
So right now, in space, you have soccer-stadium-sized satellites. They are far less massive than the GBT, not solid surface. But very large.
The Orion-class Signals Intelligence satellites are claimed to be the largest in space, with a primary dish diameter of about 100 meters.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_(satellite)
The Green Bank radio telescope is a dish on that scale, and it looks just wrong, too large to be real. The usual portrait shot doesn't do it justice, but try to put a mental image together from the photos up on the Commons:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Green_Bank_Tel...
I spent a week out there during its construction. There were contractor shacks - cargo container size - up there on the platform at the base of the elevation gear (photo labeled "Altitude" on the page linked above).
So right now, in space, you have soccer-stadium-sized satellites. They are far less massive than the GBT, not solid surface. But very large.
Stingrays require overpowering other towers to my knowledge. Doubt that’s going to fly from space.
Could facilitate other forms of passive monitoring though. eg I recall hearing whispers around attempts to track stealth planes via space based emissions. (Noting that even if that works it would not be accurate enough to shoot it down)
Could facilitate other forms of passive monitoring though. eg I recall hearing whispers around attempts to track stealth planes via space based emissions. (Noting that even if that works it would not be accurate enough to shoot it down)
SpaceX has launched 20 of its Starlink satellites up into Earth's orbit, enabling direct-to-cellphone connectivity for subscribers anywhere on the planet.
They’re covering the planet for cell coverage with 20 satellites? Why are they launching 1000s? Why do we have so many cell towers?
They’re covering the planet for cell coverage with 20 satellites? Why are they launching 1000s? Why do we have so many cell towers?
20 won't cover the world; Iridium needs 60-70-ish, and they're flying at higher altitudes, so Starlink would need a bit more than that.
But also: Capacity. The more satellites you have, the smaller you can make the cells they're projecting to earth, and the higher transmit power levels can be (assuming that the satellites are largely power limited), as well as the better the SNR is going to be as you can focus the same antenna payloads on a smaller area.
A beefier satellite with larger solar panels, more antennas, and bigger and reflectors could achieve the same with fewer satellite vehicles, which seems to be the approach ASTS is taking.
But Starlink, as far as I understand, is also providing their "regular" beamformed service using the same satellites, and there you can actually increase capacity greatly with more satellites than strictly required for global coverage (since the terminals can also "point", i.e. you and your neighbor can use the same frequency at the same time, but pointed at another satellite, increasing total data rate per Hz).
But also: Capacity. The more satellites you have, the smaller you can make the cells they're projecting to earth, and the higher transmit power levels can be (assuming that the satellites are largely power limited), as well as the better the SNR is going to be as you can focus the same antenna payloads on a smaller area.
A beefier satellite with larger solar panels, more antennas, and bigger and reflectors could achieve the same with fewer satellite vehicles, which seems to be the approach ASTS is taking.
But Starlink, as far as I understand, is also providing their "regular" beamformed service using the same satellites, and there you can actually increase capacity greatly with more satellites than strictly required for global coverage (since the terminals can also "point", i.e. you and your neighbor can use the same frequency at the same time, but pointed at another satellite, increasing total data rate per Hz).
> Why do we have so many cell towers?
Line-of-sight is a key reason. Satellites have fewer obstructions compared to terrestrial towers.
Line-of-sight is a key reason. Satellites have fewer obstructions compared to terrestrial towers.
The author probably meant that the last launch added 20 new satellites and with their addition finally completing the constellation. I'm pretty sure that they have over a hundred since many months back
There's a reason it's only texting right now.
“Bandwidth per beam is only ~10 Mb, but future constellations will be much more capable.”
“Bandwidth per beam is only ~10 Mb, but future constellations will be much more capable.”
I don't think you'll have 24/7 connectivity from 20 areas but technically you'll have it done times of the day in any region of the world. I think
> They’re covering the planet for cell coverage with 20 satellites?
They are not. Of these 20, 13 were the last to launch of the first shell of the direct-to-cell constellation, which contains 285 satellites. Once they reach destination orbit (which will still take weeks), Starlink DtC will be able to provide continuous low-throughput comms.
> Why do we have so many cell towers?
There is a superlinear relationship between total system capacity and the amount of cell towers. The total amount of capacity that Starlink DtC has will be, frankly, pathetic. 10Mb/s sounds good until you realize that that's all the capacity of the beam, that's spread out over a huge geographical area.
It will not be replacing cell towers. Instead, it will just end coverage gaps for low-throughput workloads, like sending emergency messages.
They are not. Of these 20, 13 were the last to launch of the first shell of the direct-to-cell constellation, which contains 285 satellites. Once they reach destination orbit (which will still take weeks), Starlink DtC will be able to provide continuous low-throughput comms.
> Why do we have so many cell towers?
There is a superlinear relationship between total system capacity and the amount of cell towers. The total amount of capacity that Starlink DtC has will be, frankly, pathetic. 10Mb/s sounds good until you realize that that's all the capacity of the beam, that's spread out over a huge geographical area.
It will not be replacing cell towers. Instead, it will just end coverage gaps for low-throughput workloads, like sending emergency messages.
I'd love to see my Tesla use Starlink LTE.
Whatever local provider my Tesla connects to doesn't have great reception. The onboard streaming music often cuts in and out.
Whatever local provider my Tesla connects to doesn't have great reception. The onboard streaming music often cuts in and out.
Starlink Direct-to-Cell isn't normal LTE service. It has low bandwidth, which limits it to messages, voice, and slow data. It is basically 2G or a satellite phone. It would not be enough for streaming music.
Starlink is only allowing text messaging for now. They are going to offer data but haven't announced how much.
Starlink is only allowing text messaging for now. They are going to offer data but haven't announced how much.
to be clear - it does have like up to 10megabit per satellite, you could totally stream low quality netflix off this service. the tricky part is having to share it with thousands of people (or around 50km area, to be specific), meaning you're metered to super slow 2g-like service.
this is also a noteworthy nuance because you can video call with emergency services using this satellite connection. that's a pretty rare and exceptional circumstance so they clearly allow you to saturate a lot of the bandwidth for that purpose
still super cool technology. 10mbit is like 9000 texts per second, so even in the most dense areas like Manhattan with 1.3 million people in 50 square km, if everyone texts 40 times a day, starlink still has 10x more bandwidth than that. granted people text more during the day, but it'd still be fine for text-only without media.
this is also a noteworthy nuance because you can video call with emergency services using this satellite connection. that's a pretty rare and exceptional circumstance so they clearly allow you to saturate a lot of the bandwidth for that purpose
still super cool technology. 10mbit is like 9000 texts per second, so even in the most dense areas like Manhattan with 1.3 million people in 50 square km, if everyone texts 40 times a day, starlink still has 10x more bandwidth than that. granted people text more during the day, but it'd still be fine for text-only without media.
It does, however, seem like the perfect medium for collecting telemetry on vehicles, so Tesla will now have a great means of tracking their vehicles locations at all times.
It already has good tracking because most people aren't living in the middle of nowhere with no cell coverage. They're not worried about you going off the grid the 1 or 2 times a year you go camping in yellowstone or whatever. If you're punching in your destination using the built-in navigation (there's no carplay/android auto), they'll know where you're going even without cell coverage.
Cars are probably a pretty good application. Plenty of power available, good view of sky usually (or in a city with cell reception), and stable platform might help with directional antenna compared to handheld.
More power won't help you here, I think: Since this uses regular terrestrial LTE bands and modems, you wouldn't be allowed to use any more in the uplink than a regular phone (i.e. 250 or so mW EIRP).
I could see in-car based Starlink usage in the Ka band, though – the Starlink Mini terminal definitely fits the form factor and power envelope.
I could see in-car based Starlink usage in the Ka band, though – the Starlink Mini terminal definitely fits the form factor and power envelope.
Okay maybe not more watts, but the same power can be made more directional with a phased array or something I'd assume? (I am not an EE)
EDIT: Oh, I see. EIRP already accounts for directionality and is measured where the antenna gain is highest. Never mind then!
EDIT: Oh, I see. EIRP already accounts for directionality and is measured where the antenna gain is highest. Never mind then!
Wonder what this means for totalitarian states. Currently China, North Korea and others make it too burdensome/dangerous to access certain sites. If a citizen has access to electricity and compute, they can get crypto, and with crypto could potentially (eventually) get cell to starlink? If it becomes easy and affordable enough (E.g. in 5-10 years), potentially become accessible to the masses.
People in China who really want to connect to the common internet can already do so. It’s not extremely hard, but just enough barriers so not everyone is willing to jump through hoops. And also, locals don’t really have that much appetite for it.
Nothing. Starlink cooperates with all governments, especially if theres enough bandwidth in that country to require ground stations.
A constellation is an area on the celestial sphere in which a group of visible stars forms a perceived pattern or outline, typically representing an animal, mythological subject, or inanimate object.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation
Will reflections from those satellites mess up terrestrial astronomy forever?
No, not forever. None of these satellites will be in orbit that long.
Well I mean that there will be enough users that he will never stop launching them, short of Kessler syndrome.
Starlink satellites are designed to de-orbit safely at the end of their operational life.
Ref:
The Kessler Effect: A self-perpetuating cascade of collisions between satellites and debris.
Ref:
The Kessler Effect: A self-perpetuating cascade of collisions between satellites and debris.
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