'What Is That Thing?' Tiny Trucks Are Causing Big Fights(wsj.com)
wsj.com
'What Is That Thing?' Tiny Trucks Are Causing Big Fights
https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/pickup-truck-drivers-kei-japan-honda-693effd4
41 comments
Lawmakers are generally beholden to their lobbyists i.e. the people who give them money. They don't care about anyone's safety, health or well-being. They do however, care a great deal about corporate profits.
That's the system we've built, and it's a very good one if you're a corporation.
That's the system we've built, and it's a very good one if you're a corporation.
Even if kei trucks imported from Japan perform poorly in crash tests, they demonstrate that there is a market for smaller, more utilitarian trucks in North America -- a market that could be filled with something a little bit bigger perhaps and with more safety features.
A safe, air conditioned kei truck would be great, but I can’t imagine a small truck in America given the current gigantic car culture. Sedans are too small for the American market now, let alone subcompact cars which are already gone.
How can a car be to small for your streets when there are bikes and whatever also driving around? I am really lost on this point
Purely logical sentence refuting your comment: bikes driving around doesn't mean they are big enough for the street.
But they are not banned. If A is banned because it's small, but B is not banned despite being smaller than A, then the logic doesn't support banning of A. Change small for dangerous, if you want.
Maybe B should be banned then? I think in the original post he should not use "if A then B" with those exact objects.
Problem with banning B (bikes, to not get lost) is that even SUVs are small and fragile to big trucks. Should all vehicles in the road be banned due to its size, except the biggest trucks?
The problem is that banning key cars for their size or fragility is logically inconsistent. Banning now smaller vehicles like motorcycles and bikes is a patch to wrong logic. This is just targeting a specific kind of car because some reason that the regulator doesn't want to disclose.
The problem is that banning key cars for their size or fragility is logically inconsistent. Banning now smaller vehicles like motorcycles and bikes is a patch to wrong logic. This is just targeting a specific kind of car because some reason that the regulator doesn't want to disclose.
So people don't want small cars? But there is no literal reason to not have them driving around?
You didn't say anything about "people want" or "people don't want".
> How can a car be to small for your streets when there are bikes and whatever also driving around?
Can also be presented as: if bikes are driving on roads, cars can't be too small for roads (because they are bigger than bikes).
So, bikes being on streets doesn't mean they are big enough for roads. Your whole sentence is "non sequitur". What I want to say: small cars can be too small for USA roads independently of bikes being too small for USA roads. People wanting to drive small cars or bikes is also independent and being allowed to is also pretty much independent.
Now, my opinion: I think you should be allowed to drive small cars, I have a small car too (and a bike), but existing usage of roads in USA by increasingly big cars makes it increasingly unsafe (in USA). I agree that USA should do something about bigger and bigger cars, but I have no idea what and it's not very probable that I will ever drive a car or a bike in a big city in USA, so you can safely ignore my opinion and drive whatever you like.
> How can a car be to small for your streets when there are bikes and whatever also driving around?
Can also be presented as: if bikes are driving on roads, cars can't be too small for roads (because they are bigger than bikes).
So, bikes being on streets doesn't mean they are big enough for roads. Your whole sentence is "non sequitur". What I want to say: small cars can be too small for USA roads independently of bikes being too small for USA roads. People wanting to drive small cars or bikes is also independent and being allowed to is also pretty much independent.
Now, my opinion: I think you should be allowed to drive small cars, I have a small car too (and a bike), but existing usage of roads in USA by increasingly big cars makes it increasingly unsafe (in USA). I agree that USA should do something about bigger and bigger cars, but I have no idea what and it's not very probable that I will ever drive a car or a bike in a big city in USA, so you can safely ignore my opinion and drive whatever you like.
I think I get what you mean. Never been to the U.S. and was just really surprised about this sentiment.
Some people drive tiny single seat cars here in Europe and I never considered that particular dangerous for them or anyone next to the relative way bigger cars that are common.
Some people drive tiny single seat cars here in Europe and I never considered that particular dangerous for them or anyone next to the relative way bigger cars that are common.
It’s pretty dangerous to ride a bike on US streets
I mean that sedans are too small for American tastes. Automakers are phasing out sedans like they phased out subcompacts because people don't buy them. Americans basically buy crossovers at a minimum now.
...Subcompact cars most certainly are not gone.
I see tiny Fiats, Volkswagen beetles, Smart Cars, and other very small vehicles all the time. I live in a rural area filled with lifted pickups.
Please don't make the mistake of thinking that "there's a trend toward larger vehicles, which can make smaller vehicles somewhat less safe" means "no one is buying or selling anything smaller than an F-150".
I see tiny Fiats, Volkswagen beetles, Smart Cars, and other very small vehicles all the time. I live in a rural area filled with lifted pickups.
Please don't make the mistake of thinking that "there's a trend toward larger vehicles, which can make smaller vehicles somewhat less safe" means "no one is buying or selling anything smaller than an F-150".
How old are these mini-trucks? The article mentions a '91; similar American-made vehicles also had some safety issues in the 1990s.
• Dateline NBC 1996 Minivan Crash Testing (https://youtu.be/QNNkAvT6lns)
Then again, maybe more domestic vehicles should be illegal.
• Dateline NBC 1996 Minivan Crash Testing (https://youtu.be/QNNkAvT6lns)
Then again, maybe more domestic vehicles should be illegal.
My neighbour (in Australia) just bought a brand-new truck like this. They're in active development and production.
Not that I'd feel all that safe in it. The cabin is essentially a matchbox.
Not that I'd feel all that safe in it. The cabin is essentially a matchbox.
Yeah, they're in current production, but in the US we can only really import them for general use if they're 25 years or more old. Newer than that and it needs to meet the US Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS), and probably also the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) standards too. So everything we see tends to be fairly old.
Some states make it pretty hard to register these vehicles too, you don't see very many kei trucks in California because they're too hard to register; import shops exist in California, but tend to sell to drivers in other states.
Some states make it pretty hard to register these vehicles too, you don't see very many kei trucks in California because they're too hard to register; import shops exist in California, but tend to sell to drivers in other states.
Ford maverick fits that and still no one else makes anything comparable. There are wait lists and dealer mark ups.
Not as small as these but way smaller then pickups and handles like a big car. Hybrid awd model is coming this year
Not as small as these but way smaller then pickups and handles like a big car. Hybrid awd model is coming this year
A 2024 maverick is close to the same footprint as 2007 ranger, but the maverick is 10 inches longer, but the bed is 18 inches shorter.
Of course, some kei trucks manage a 6 foot bed in the 11.2 length maximum.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=402004783&veh2...
Of course, some kei trucks manage a 6 foot bed in the 11.2 length maximum.
https://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/?veh1=402004783&veh2...
Yeah I just mean there's clearly a under served market for smaller and practical trucks. Not everyone wants or needs these giant "mid size" trucks
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Kei trucks have a much longer bed than the Maverick. About 2m on a Kei truck vs. 1.37m on a Maverick. The sides of the bed can also be lowered in addition to the rear gate, which is incredibly useful for loading/unloading.
The Maverick is a cool truck, but feels more like a passenger car that can do light truck duty when needed. Whereas the a kei truck is really all about utility.
The Maverick is a cool truck, but feels more like a passenger car that can do light truck duty when needed. Whereas the a kei truck is really all about utility.
I recently went to Italy, and ... American cars are too big. It's really quite stunning when you see people that live differently.
I noticed the same thing! I was walking around on a visit to Europe and thought "that's a big car!", then realized that no, it was a mid-sized car in the US.
I've always heard this, that cars are to big, but my sedan feels tiny now that I have a kid. Stroller, car seat, baby travel bag. Space for anything else is gone. I feel the need for an suv or pick up with a back row. Trying to DIY anything in a house too is difficult.
But why do you think your problems would be solved by an SUV or a pick up? There are plenty of family cars that are way more practical for the purpose than any of those.
Yup - Americans hate MPVs/Minivans for some reason even though that's what most families probably need.
Something like the Honda Freed: three-row compact minivan that can comfortably seat 6. Or seats can be folded/arranged in a number of different configurations to give a ton of cargo space. Sliding doors, which are incredibly convenient. And available with AWD and/or a hybrid version that gets 49 MPG. Weight is about the same as the best-selling-in-America RAV4, but shorter, easier to park, and all around way more useful.
I recently went on a road trip in one of these with three adults, three road bikes (front wheel detached, but otherwise fully assembled), and all of our other cycling gear + luggage. I was shocked at how much we were able to fit into it and have a comfortable ride.
https://www.honda.co.jp/FREED/
Something like the Honda Freed: three-row compact minivan that can comfortably seat 6. Or seats can be folded/arranged in a number of different configurations to give a ton of cargo space. Sliding doors, which are incredibly convenient. And available with AWD and/or a hybrid version that gets 49 MPG. Weight is about the same as the best-selling-in-America RAV4, but shorter, easier to park, and all around way more useful.
I recently went on a road trip in one of these with three adults, three road bikes (front wheel detached, but otherwise fully assembled), and all of our other cycling gear + luggage. I was shocked at how much we were able to fit into it and have a comfortable ride.
https://www.honda.co.jp/FREED/
It’s not for some reason, it’s for status.
A minivan is the economical choice for every family. More interior room, more comfortable, more versatile.
But still people will opt for a larger footprint and taller 3 row SUV with less legroom and cargo space because the fact that it is less economical and they can afford to waste money is a show of status. And they get to sit higher up. And pretend they take it rock climbing in the mountains on the weekends.
A minivan is the economical choice for every family. More interior room, more comfortable, more versatile.
But still people will opt for a larger footprint and taller 3 row SUV with less legroom and cargo space because the fact that it is less economical and they can afford to waste money is a show of status. And they get to sit higher up. And pretend they take it rock climbing in the mountains on the weekends.
Because they're big enough to fit stuff in and still be able to seat the family. Trips to the beach, mountains, road trips, buying 2nd hand furniture are all difficult or impossible.
If you know a model that can fit a family, baby stuff and sports equipment, let me know. Suvs are too expensive
If you know a model that can fit a family, baby stuff and sports equipment, let me know. Suvs are too expensive
Yet Italians go to beach and mountains, buy 2nd hand furniture, transport babies, and play sports, apparently with smaller cars.
As supporting evidence, here's a link to Google Street View of a beach parking lot near Rome: https://maps.app.goo.gl/gLv4EJCTPRpLXQQu8 . I don't see any SUVs.
Here's street parking a bit south by the beach: https://maps.app.goo.gl/eGH9KFrkzYduv6cY9
When I had a 2-door sports car and needed to move 2nd hand furniture, I asked a friend for help, or rented a moving van or trailer. For that matter, when I bought a matched set of 5 big book cases, the 2nd hand store used their trailer to deliver it.
That said, I also know how the US has locked itself into car dependency, making any other options almost untenable. Like it or now, you'll probably be driving your kids around for the next 10-15 years because the alternative choices have been taken away.
As supporting evidence, here's a link to Google Street View of a beach parking lot near Rome: https://maps.app.goo.gl/gLv4EJCTPRpLXQQu8 . I don't see any SUVs.
Here's street parking a bit south by the beach: https://maps.app.goo.gl/eGH9KFrkzYduv6cY9
When I had a 2-door sports car and needed to move 2nd hand furniture, I asked a friend for help, or rented a moving van or trailer. For that matter, when I bought a matched set of 5 big book cases, the 2nd hand store used their trailer to deliver it.
That said, I also know how the US has locked itself into car dependency, making any other options almost untenable. Like it or now, you'll probably be driving your kids around for the next 10-15 years because the alternative choices have been taken away.
It seems like space for a stroller, child, child seat, yourself, and luggage is a lot. What else do you need to carry with you?
All the fuss sounds like protectionism
Shout-out for the Hooligan rotary-swapped kei truck:
https://shop.hoonigan.com/blogs/621-golden-season-1/the-rota...
https://shop.hoonigan.com/blogs/621-golden-season-1/the-rota...
From the article [ https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/04/20/rural-ame...] another use for these mini trucks - "A couple of years ago Jake Morgan, a farmer who lives just outside Raleigh, in North Carolina, realised he needed a new vehicle to get around his property. "
Vehicle known as a "quad bike" is a popular vehicle used by farmers in my area - ie a Farm Quad bike , All terrain vehicle (ATV). To get around all the different types of terrain on a farm ...
Vehicle known as a "quad bike" is a popular vehicle used by farmers in my area - ie a Farm Quad bike , All terrain vehicle (ATV). To get around all the different types of terrain on a farm ...
Sadly, ridiculously expensive for fairly limited cargo utility, no doubt due to their ATV heritage ($30k will get you what is essentially a posh ATV that is simultaneously an extremely janky vehicle by kei truck standards.)
Kei cars have all the safety and power of a small motorcycle.
But yeah, kei trucks probably have the same size bed as a normal pickup now. Because car makers barely make a standard cab pickup with a 6 foot bed anymore (you can still get a standar cab f-150, but it's $40k msrp, and if a kei truck fits your needs, an f-150 is going to be way more engine than you need). CAFE standards ended the compact pickups we had in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s. :(
But yeah, kei trucks probably have the same size bed as a normal pickup now. Because car makers barely make a standard cab pickup with a 6 foot bed anymore (you can still get a standar cab f-150, but it's $40k msrp, and if a kei truck fits your needs, an f-150 is going to be way more engine than you need). CAFE standards ended the compact pickups we had in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s. :(
These small trucks are also common in the Philippines.
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But yet we expect cyclists, motorcyclists, and pedestrians to share the roads with American-sized automobiles? If American roads are unsafe for anything that doesn't weigh a couple tons, I think that is the problem that lawmakers should be addressing.