William Shatner's Seat(quora.com)
quora.com
William Shatner's Seat
https://www.quora.com/I-always-see-this-small-black-triangle-on-the-inside-of-airplane-walls-What-does-it-mean-or-do?share=1
84 comments
Perhaps a relevant bit of trivia. William Shatner was on the tv series. John Lithgow remade the same scene for the twilight zone movie. i was never much of a fan of 3rd rock from the sun, but they did have this adorable little (20 second) callback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTNOihQnqVQ
Cultural connoisseurs will also no doubt be aware that Johnny Bravo covered that episode the Twilight Zone too, except instead of Gremlins, it was Clowns....
https://youtu.be/W-oEQIiKx_U
https://youtu.be/W-oEQIiKx_U
Having seen both the tv episode and the movie episode, my recollection is that the tv episode was superior.
Just watched the tv episode absolutely mind blown. Impossible to not notice these:
- they could smoke in airplanes
- anyone could just open the emergency door mid-flight
- they had triangular paper cups for water
- there were curtains running across the cabin on each side
- all men were dressed in suit
- you could carry guns on the airplane
- he wasn't immediately declared a terrorist and shot after plane had landed but instead taken by an ambulance
how civil!
- they could smoke in airplanes
- anyone could just open the emergency door mid-flight
- they had triangular paper cups for water
- there were curtains running across the cabin on each side
- all men were dressed in suit
- you could carry guns on the airplane
- he wasn't immediately declared a terrorist and shot after plane had landed but instead taken by an ambulance
how civil!
It also cost 10x the price and was worse in just about every safety and operational metric. For all of the 'charm' that's disappeared out of flying, its democritisation has resulted in it becoming like car travel was in the 50s.
I'm pretty sure you had lots of leg room in a car in the 50s.
Yes. You also had a steering column that would impale you if you crashed into something.
By and large, it was middle-middle and upper middle and above who travelled by plane then. They tended to be the kinds of people who typically had some decorum (you mention the suits, so it's clear they are people of some higher status), so you didn't have your run of the mill middle-class and lower-middle class brats on the plane. And people hadn't thought of exploiting the system much --till the 70s when it became democratized and then you had highjackings every week practically and so now we get what we get.
That's not a bad thing, but as things gain a wider audience and becomes less of a luxury item things change --kind of like what one sees in online discussion boards and their evaporative cooling effect.
That's not a bad thing, but as things gain a wider audience and becomes less of a luxury item things change --kind of like what one sees in online discussion boards and their evaporative cooling effect.
> you mention the suits, so it's clear they are people of some higher status
Not really; having and wearing a suit is something that has increased in association with formality and higher class; it used to be de rigueur for a much wider slice of society, outside of contexts (e.g., actually doing physical work at the time) where it was inappropriate.
Not really; having and wearing a suit is something that has increased in association with formality and higher class; it used to be de rigueur for a much wider slice of society, outside of contexts (e.g., actually doing physical work at the time) where it was inappropriate.
Granted, yes, it was more like Japan is today in that sense but never the less, I maintain my point that flying wasn't something Joe or Susie did, it was the something jetsetters did --people who could afford the luxury of flying. They were not your farmboys and bricklayers who went flying taking their kids on a cheap leisure vacation to Disney, etc...
Still, you see these people had crisp pressed suits, not ratty and raggy well worn suits.
Still, you see these people had crisp pressed suits, not ratty and raggy well worn suits.
Indeed; I believe casual dress in general-purpose, public adult leisure contexts was initially associated strongly with the upper/upper-middle classes and was seen as a signal of higher status, even in cases where the dress item in question was an appropriation from the working class (e.g., jeans).
This is one thing I remember from the movie Endless Summer: the two surfers still wear a suit and tie to the airport.
I still wear a jacket while flying. To me, clothing is an outward sign of respect to those around you and is very effective when interacting with airport staff. A smile and a suit coat can get you amazingly far when your flight is delayed, cancelled, etc. You are treated differently at an airport when dressed appropriately.
which, in 21st century, is plain wrong. if I go hiking for 3 weeks in Nepal and have only outdoorsy clothing with me, I should be treated exactly same as everybody else. equality and whatnot.
I know it's how we all react on daily basis, everything is evaluated with some emotional context, but that doesn't make it a good behavior and something to be okay with.
I know it's how we all react on daily basis, everything is evaluated with some emotional context, but that doesn't make it a good behavior and something to be okay with.
A lot of air travel was for work because it was so expensive, thus the suit wearing. You can hunt around for some pictures of flying in the 60s and 70s and fine no shortage of people in vacation gear or 'street' clothes but back then even street clothes were more formal (you'd toss on a sports jacket or fedora without thinking twice about it for even yardwork). A lot of what we see today in photos are carefully crafted PR and marketing pieces. People back then didn't have smartphones to photograph an average cabin, so we see these wonderfully staged photos of a gorgeous stewardess carving up a turkey for a well-dressed and posed family, which isn't exactly something common in flight. Do you really want someone on an aircraft that can jostle at any time holding a carving knife at your neck's height?
Also, that's not a plane, its a Hollywood set. You can't open the door mid-flight as the pressurized cabin won't allow you, at least past a certain year when all airplanes standardized on the inward opening door. Everyone is thin and glamorous looking because they're actors. Everyone is well dressed because the costume department made it so (no ill fitting suits or out of fashion dresses and skirts). No crying babies because it would ruin the drama. No elderly people having a coughing fit. No dirty looks if you happen to have the wrong skin color.
I also don't see how people smoking is supposed to be this wonderful freedom loving thing. As someone old enough to have been around where people smoked next to you all the time in just about any social setting, it was disgusting and unbelievably rude and entitled, on top of being a major health issue for those exposed to second-hand smoke, especially children. I'm not sure what the GP was implying but you don't want to go back to those days. A recent week in Japan reminded me of my childhood and that aspect of my trip was fairly unpleasant.
Also, that's not a plane, its a Hollywood set. You can't open the door mid-flight as the pressurized cabin won't allow you, at least past a certain year when all airplanes standardized on the inward opening door. Everyone is thin and glamorous looking because they're actors. Everyone is well dressed because the costume department made it so (no ill fitting suits or out of fashion dresses and skirts). No crying babies because it would ruin the drama. No elderly people having a coughing fit. No dirty looks if you happen to have the wrong skin color.
I also don't see how people smoking is supposed to be this wonderful freedom loving thing. As someone old enough to have been around where people smoked next to you all the time in just about any social setting, it was disgusting and unbelievably rude and entitled, on top of being a major health issue for those exposed to second-hand smoke, especially children. I'm not sure what the GP was implying but you don't want to go back to those days. A recent week in Japan reminded me of my childhood and that aspect of my trip was fairly unpleasant.
I feel like this is akin to working for a small company versus a larger company. Rules always cater to the lowest common denominator, because the people that make the rules are lazy and prefer blanket policies over stratified ones.
In a small team, the internet is not all clamped down at work. You are more likely to be treated like a mature adult. At a large company, they treat everyone like children because that one imbecile did that stupid thing that one time.
Now, the risk in acknowledging this phenomena is that you come off sounding elitist, "I want to join an exclusive club so I don't have the cretins dragging me down."
In a small team, the internet is not all clamped down at work. You are more likely to be treated like a mature adult. At a large company, they treat everyone like children because that one imbecile did that stupid thing that one time.
Now, the risk in acknowledging this phenomena is that you come off sounding elitist, "I want to join an exclusive club so I don't have the cretins dragging me down."
To that point, FastCo has a good article on the "golden age" of flying:
https://www.fastcodesign.com/3022215/terminal-velocity/what-...
https://www.fastcodesign.com/3022215/terminal-velocity/what-...
By Dad once told me that the smoking section was the right side of the plane. I think that is hilarious.
It's probably not reducing the overall exposure to carcinogens, but there's something to be said for not sitting right next to someone while they smoke.
I remember it being aft. But yeah, I absolutely choked on planes.
Usually the back third or so and on long flights it was horrible. Also, the cabin pressure in those days was thinner than it usually is now and the air dryer.
The air was somewhat drier but also of higher 'quality' because less of it was recirculated; most was fresh intake from the atmosphere, heated, passed through the cabin and dumped.
The introduction of widebody twins in the early 1980s coincided with increased air recirculation, in order to reduce bleed-air load on the engines, and until the 787 and A380 it was often over 60% recirculated.
Ironically the elimination of smoking led to a big increase in recirculated air.
The introduction of widebody twins in the early 1980s coincided with increased air recirculation, in order to reduce bleed-air load on the engines, and until the 787 and A380 it was often over 60% recirculated.
Ironically the elimination of smoking led to a big increase in recirculated air.
You mean it could have been higher quality if not for all the smoking. I remember it being pretty miserable on longer flights.
Pretty sure William Shatner was about to smoke while sitting on the left.
I feel like smoking sections were still a thing in the late 80's / early 90's on some Asian carriers.
I was really young though so my recollection is questionable.
I was really young though so my recollection is questionable.
I flew internationally extensively in '00/'01 and that must have been just after it was banned. I remember an Olympic flight from London to Athens where the now-standard "you can't smoke" announcements were made, and the signs were all turned on, and the second the wheels left the tarmac fully half of the plane lit up.
In the same period I flew Air France, to Senegal if memory serves. Again, no smoking and all that, but the stewardesses all bundled up in their galley, curtains closed, and were puffing away.
Bizarre to think about now.
In the same period I flew Air France, to Senegal if memory serves. Again, no smoking and all that, but the stewardesses all bundled up in their galley, curtains closed, and were puffing away.
Bizarre to think about now.
I flew from JFK to Heathrow in 1986 (don't recall the airline but assume it was either a major US carrier or British Airways) - I vividly remember the cabin being full of cigarette smoke. I suppose there must have been a nominal "section" but can't remember.
According to Wikipedia:
"After years of debate over health concerns, Congressional action in 1987 led to a ban on inflight smoking.
The U.S. ban on inflight smoking began with domestic flights of two hours or less in April 1988, extended to domestic flights of six hours or less in February 1990, and to all domestic and international flights in 2000."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflight_smoking
According to Wikipedia:
"After years of debate over health concerns, Congressional action in 1987 led to a ban on inflight smoking.
The U.S. ban on inflight smoking began with domestic flights of two hours or less in April 1988, extended to domestic flights of six hours or less in February 1990, and to all domestic and international flights in 2000."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflight_smoking
Having flown a lot when smoking was allowed, and you couldn't get away from it, it's nice to not have it anymore.
As an asthmatic, I find the dry air on planes to be bad enough. If smoking were still allowed, I probably wouldn't be able to fly.
I was just thinking that, holy cow. It's bad enough when a smoker sits down next to you on the bus. Imagine the guy next to you lighting up on a four hour flight. Holy shit.
Worse still, at the time of this episode (1963), there wasn't even a notion of a "Smoking Section". Smokers lit up anywhere on planes, anywhere in restaurants, anywhere in the office, on line at the bank, in any sort of waiting room, really anywhere in general. The very concept of a "Smoking Section" wasn't a thing until the 70's, and it was years before they were ubiquitous in the US.
Even as a former smoker, I never really thought too much about smoking sections until my wife was pregnant. Suddenly someone smoking in the wrong area was a threat to my unborn child and really rubbed me the wrong way. I'm all for personal freedom, but exercising this one around others is stomping on their freedom to breathe freely. I'm glad as a society we've moved on from this for the most part.
Even as late as 1995, I remember flying from South Africa to the UK (in the non-smoking section) while the guy behind me (in the smoking section) was smoking extremely smelly eastern European cigarettes. Quite an adventure when you're prone to airsickness.
When I was a boy in the 80s it was still common. My parents didn't smoke, so I loved going on planes, or into restaurants & hospitals (!) to smell smoke. I'm sad that we've lost that culture.
I hope this is some kind of very, very dry irony :)
I flew from Tel Aviv to New York in 1997 and the plane still had a smoking section.
I recall a trip to Japan in the early or mid 90s where I was dumped in the smoking section by mistake. Very long flight.
The same thing happened to me on the Shinkansen. My eyes were stinging by the end of it. Thankfully they have replaced smoking cars with smoking rooms since then. The JP govt appears to be cracking down on smoking + "encouraging" free Wi-Fi everywhere in time for 2020.
Make flying great again
The second comment also mentions ashtrays, pointing them out as an example of a holdover from a previous time. But that's not true in the US. They're still required by the FAA because even though smoking is never allowed, the reasoning is that if someone smokes anyway, it's safer for them to have a proper place to put it out. See http://gizmodo.com/5912352/why-airplanes-still-have-ashtrays...
I am pretty sure I have been on planes without ashtray
Even if the seats don't have ashtrays, there's usually (always?) one in each bathroom
[deleted]
I totally thought this was going to be about the Captain's chair on the USS Enterprise before I clicked it.
A view from Shatner's other other seat: https://youtu.be/Uyp8B8Vro-s?t=1m20s
I know the episode from Simpsons. Never knew where it originated from.
So much of my knowledge of my dad's generation is from Simpsons references.
"Who says 'SHAZAM!'?"
"Ah yes, Gomer Pyle."
"Who says 'SHAZAM!'?"
"Ah yes, Gomer Pyle."
...which got re-tread in Futurama when Fry goes back in time to become his own Grandpa by way of a nuclear weapon test - the doofy "Grandpa" Fry replaces is most definitely a pastiche of Gomer Pyle.
I'm so damn sick of that stupid song. Teens constantly ruin good content with it. I should know, I did the same thing with that song when I was a teen.
You think you're sick of it? Ha! Try being me watching a Lord of the Rings trailer on TV with that epic soundtrack underneath. It actually hurt my head.
Still, nothing quite compares to Carnival Cruises thinking it was a great idea to mold a TV ad campaign around the Iggy Pop song "Lust For Life" which, for me, will forever be associated with the film Trainspotting, petty theft, and heroin addiction. I guess those are better than what I normally associate with most large cruise operators though, which is engine failure, diarrhea, and onion sandwiches.
Still, nothing quite compares to Carnival Cruises thinking it was a great idea to mold a TV ad campaign around the Iggy Pop song "Lust For Life" which, for me, will forever be associated with the film Trainspotting, petty theft, and heroin addiction. I guess those are better than what I normally associate with most large cruise operators though, which is engine failure, diarrhea, and onion sandwiches.
Huh... I always assumed it was marking either the center of mass, or the center of lift...
I absolutely love these obscure pop sub-references. Thank you for the post, it tickled my funny bone.
Is there really a window under the carpet the pilot can use to check if the landing gear is down?
If you go to the link it says:
>If the crew gets an unsafe light when putting down the landing gear, there is an alternate visual indicator on each wing in two locations. If you go to the triangle stickers and look out you'll see the small one inch diameter red post protruding up about 2.5 inches. This confirms the gear is down and locked over-center.
>If the crew gets an unsafe light when putting down the landing gear, there is an alternate visual indicator on each wing in two locations. If you go to the triangle stickers and look out you'll see the small one inch diameter red post protruding up about 2.5 inches. This confirms the gear is down and locked over-center.
I was referring to this comment at the link
>Right below that mark will be a small window in the floor.
>In case of a cockpit gear indication failure, one pilot goes back, peels back the carpet over the window, and checks the manual alignment indicator in the wheel well.
>Right below that mark will be a small window in the floor.
>In case of a cockpit gear indication failure, one pilot goes back, peels back the carpet over the window, and checks the manual alignment indicator in the wheel well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/2x29gv/inside_a_7...
or http://airplanereading.org/story/4/loss-of-blood-flow
The co-pilot and flight attendants were trying to lift up the carpet in the exit row, apparently to find a floor window which would give a view into the cargo hold. No such luck. The carpet had recently been tacked down to the floor when this particular aircraft underwent some renovations. Unfortunately, no consideration had been made for the floor window in case of an emergency, such as we were presently experiencing.
or http://airplanereading.org/story/4/loss-of-blood-flow
The co-pilot and flight attendants were trying to lift up the carpet in the exit row, apparently to find a floor window which would give a view into the cargo hold. No such luck. The carpet had recently been tacked down to the floor when this particular aircraft underwent some renovations. Unfortunately, no consideration had been made for the floor window in case of an emergency, such as we were presently experiencing.
“Are they going to try and land anyway?”
It's unlikely that the pilot simply took a gamble. Presumably ground crew took a look, either on the first go-round or during the second approach, and confirmed that the landing gear was down. I like to think my "screw it we'll see what happens" IT methodology isn't used in all industries...
It's unlikely that the pilot simply took a gamble. Presumably ground crew took a look, either on the first go-round or during the second approach, and confirmed that the landing gear was down. I like to think my "screw it we'll see what happens" IT methodology isn't used in all industries...
I know what I'm doing on my next flight.
The "landing gear viewer" is only required on older aircraft that do not have dual redundant electrical systems to report landing gear status. There are still some of these in service, the easy way to know on a Boeing is that one of the overhead bin doors will have a label "L/G VIEWER" on it.
Just for Reference: SNL's take on it feat. Jude Law's clearest view of Pearl Jam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma_LSr7CwlQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma_LSr7CwlQ
SNL Link for those in America
https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/nightmare-at-2...
That's interesting, that also resembles the AA symbol.
absolutely nobody in aviation ever called it that.
no two answers agree, and they're all wildly different, and many of them seem to be from experts.
Strictly speaking it'd be the "Shatner Seat", or the "Shatner Viewing Seat". Shatner's seat only works if Shatner owns it.
You're right. Good thing Lou Gehrig owns ALS, and Duff owns Duff's device then.
> The Shatner reference is to one of the strangest Twilight Zone episodes, Nightmare at 20,000 Feet,
I don't know that earned a title for one of the strangest. There were lots of great episodes in the series, it would be hard to argue any of them were other than very strange.
[Edited to address astrodust's comment.]
I don't know that earned a title for one of the strangest. There were lots of great episodes in the series, it would be hard to argue any of them were other than very strange.
[Edited to address astrodust's comment.]
> Part of the beauty of The Twilight Zone, as a science fiction show, was that Serling could get away with social commentary by disguising it as harmless fantasy. He was allowed to be critical if he was allegorical at the same time. As he himself put it, "You know, you can put these words into the mouth of a Martian and get away with it."
http://www.plosin.com/beatbegins/projects/brenner.html
http://www.plosin.com/beatbegins/projects/brenner.html
That explains why there isn't anyone doing that today. Hollywood is too PC so there's nothing for them to "get away with".
Presumably someone who's not PC could use allegory to get away with being un-PC.
Think of Joss Whedon's Firefly, in which the Alliance is a thinly-veiled allegory for the triumphant Union shortly after it destroyed the Confederate States.
Think of Joss Whedon's Firefly, in which the Alliance is a thinly-veiled allegory for the triumphant Union shortly after it destroyed the Confederate States.
Holy shat!
A bit off topic... Was just watching the old episodes of Star Trek on Netflix, still classic and very entertaining.
William Shatner seat?
No he didn't. Did you William?
No he didn't. Did you William?
I know what I'm gonna watch tonight! ▲
Getting "The Shatner Seat":
- On a plane... cool
- On a toilet... a little too warm
- On a plane... cool
- On a toilet... a little too warm
Wouldn't this be better called 'The Shatbird Seat'?