The Americans Pledging to Buy Less–Or Even Nothing(wsj.com)
wsj.com
The Americans Pledging to Buy Less–Or Even Nothing
https://www.wsj.com/personal-finance/the-americans-pledging-to-buy-lessor-even-nothing-7edeacf3
79 comments
Reducing stress is the biggest pro of a consumption-aware lifestyle for me. I don't need the latest crap. I don't need flashy stuff. The desire to have the latest/great and more of it destroys us.
Oh man, what an exciting opportunity. clears throat The hacker news title seems to mistranslate the original Em dash to an En dash.
The biggest advantage of DIY over buying is no taxes or regulation. I built a house without codes or inspection for $30k, meanwhile it would cost you $300k+ for same.
>I built a house without codes or inspection for $30k
You will, of course, not be able to get insurance nor sell the house later on, among many other hurdles related to liability.
Not dissing the idea of DIY, to be clear. Just noting for the audience that freedom is power and power is responsibility.
You will, of course, not be able to get insurance nor sell the house later on, among many other hurdles related to liability.
Not dissing the idea of DIY, to be clear. Just noting for the audience that freedom is power and power is responsibility.
Code compliance is not a prerequisite for selling a property with a structure on it, and it isn't a guarantee that you can't get the structure insured. If it was you'd never be able to get homeowner's insurance on older homes.
This depends heavily on where you live. I bought a house in a city with a realtor who was fairly new and didn't realize the city mandated inspections upon sale. When I tried to sell the same house a few years later, the buyer's agent did know about it, and when the city came out, they required several updates to the electrical wiring in the garage and to replace an old-style gas valve that had fallen out of code.
What if the house isn't sold, just the company that owns it?
Neither I nor (to my knowledge) the previous owners were in any way penalized or even notified that the required inspection was missed when I bought the house and registered it as my primary residence at the city hall (for property tax purposes).
It mostly seemed like something to benefit buyers given that, and I would assume that a company changing hands would mean the the purchasing party has already done their due diligence.
It mostly seemed like something to benefit buyers given that, and I would assume that a company changing hands would mean the the purchasing party has already done their due diligence.
Oh that's fascinating, what state was this in?
This was some years back in Minnesota. The particular town (a suburb of Minneapolis) was apparently infamous for nanny-state governance, and nothing of what I've heard since has me wanting to go back.
With that said, I've still got a few friends who enjoy living there, so to each their own I suppose.
With that said, I've still got a few friends who enjoy living there, so to each their own I suppose.
Yeah that's pretty typical. Every city has at least a few of those rich suburbs full of jerks that run the town that way. I bet they probably have a bunch of police policies that amount to "harass the crap out of anyone who can't just pay for compliance with everyone" too.
Honestly, I wasn't even in one of the "rich" suburbs. Unfortunately, the whole area tends to want to mimic the worst of other metro policies.
The police were actually pretty decent, as was enforcement of other policies like "your grass is half an inch too long" type stuff that I'd heard of elsewhere. For the most part, if the house didn't look like a junkyard or have a lot of visible peeling paint, they didn't pester people overmuch.
The police were actually pretty decent, as was enforcement of other policies like "your grass is half an inch too long" type stuff that I'd heard of elsewhere. For the most part, if the house didn't look like a junkyard or have a lot of visible peeling paint, they didn't pester people overmuch.
I expect older homes are grandparented into code approval?
Some us counties* don't even have code enforcement departments.
It is for mortgages
It absolutely is not. I've purchased two (2) homes with catastrophic damage to their foundations and structural members, bad plumbing, and worse wiring. The mortgage company didn't make a peep. The insurance company did pitch a bitch about a brick porch attached to one of the homes, so I ended up spending a day and a half repointing it, but that's all.
I’m not sure where you live, but mortgage companies require inspection reports and if the inspection fails of structural condition, you’re not getting a mortgage where I live.
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You would also save 30k in insurance premiums pretty quickly.
You can also lose a cute half a million in liability pretty quickly if something happens.
Seems like more of a scare tactic than anything, and not one I would be worried about.
In my opinion, most people are so obsessive about mitigating exceedingly rare downside risk that they throw their whole lives away, leaving nothing worth protecting.
In my opinion, most people are so obsessive about mitigating exceedingly rare downside risk that they throw their whole lives away, leaving nothing worth protecting.
Someone would buy it for $30k cash, if it were for sale.
At $50/sq ft for a home you'll have people lining up.
New home prices are more than double that.
Even renting a home costs more than $1/sq ft per month in the area where we own our rental property.
Congratulations. You sound like you'd fit right in with my family. Most of us have been building things for a long time.
Note to anyone else who might want to give it a whirl - you don't have to buy all the tools. Most of them and all the larger tools are available to rent on long or short-term rental contracts at rates that will save you money if you're only gonna do the project once. The skills are the important things to own yourself.
Be open to learning and unafraid of the mantra that you either do it right or you do it over again until you have done it right.
New home prices are more than double that.
Even renting a home costs more than $1/sq ft per month in the area where we own our rental property.
Congratulations. You sound like you'd fit right in with my family. Most of us have been building things for a long time.
Note to anyone else who might want to give it a whirl - you don't have to buy all the tools. Most of them and all the larger tools are available to rent on long or short-term rental contracts at rates that will save you money if you're only gonna do the project once. The skills are the important things to own yourself.
Be open to learning and unafraid of the mantra that you either do it right or you do it over again until you have done it right.
Also consider Buying tools new, and then selling them when you’re done, especially for those that you need for long periods during the project. Tools tend to sell for decent prices and quickly in the aftermarket as they are practical items that people need to use to make more money.
Do you have more details?
How long did it take you?
What's the square footage and number of bedrooms / bathrooms?
Did anyone help you?
Did you include buying / renting tools in that amount?
Already own the land?
Interior / exterior finish levels? e.g. is it a cabin?
How long did it take you?
What's the square footage and number of bedrooms / bathrooms?
Did anyone help you?
Did you include buying / renting tools in that amount?
Already own the land?
Interior / exterior finish levels? e.g. is it a cabin?
Not the original commenter, but I’ve done extensive renovations of different sizes, and walls off restorations of 3 houses.
The 30k to me, sounds possible ish, but also hard especially without a helper.
Personal example, I’ve gotten many materials for free. Including several hundred square feet of hardwood floor.
But thinking through some basics of just tools needed, and being cheap- and also with an assumption that you have time, and land with wood. And assuming you find cheap / used tools but not junk.
Decent chainsaw: $600-$1,000 Alaskan sawmill: $120
Stuff to setup basic kiln house: $600
6-12 months wait on wood.
Planer: $400-600 Jointer: $200-300
Impact, drill, sawzall, oscillating saw, jigsaw, circular: $700
Mitre saw and stand: $400 Table saw: $200
Basic plumbing tools, pex or copper : $200
But when I start to think through things aside from that: If you start to buy materials…
I think it could be done, if you did a cement or block foundation yourself, and did very basic construction.
But my just off the cuff guesstimates, assuming 1500 sq ft ranch house:
Lumber for framing: $4,100 Toilets: $240 Fasteners: $500 Drywall: $1,500 Piping, fittings: $1,000 Electrical: $2,500 (assuming electric stove, and electric dryer) HVAC: $8,000 …. I start to see a hard time doing it for 30k, but, I’m sure there’s a way!
The 30k to me, sounds possible ish, but also hard especially without a helper.
Personal example, I’ve gotten many materials for free. Including several hundred square feet of hardwood floor.
But thinking through some basics of just tools needed, and being cheap- and also with an assumption that you have time, and land with wood. And assuming you find cheap / used tools but not junk.
Decent chainsaw: $600-$1,000 Alaskan sawmill: $120
Stuff to setup basic kiln house: $600
6-12 months wait on wood.
Planer: $400-600 Jointer: $200-300
Impact, drill, sawzall, oscillating saw, jigsaw, circular: $700
Mitre saw and stand: $400 Table saw: $200
Basic plumbing tools, pex or copper : $200
But when I start to think through things aside from that: If you start to buy materials…
I think it could be done, if you did a cement or block foundation yourself, and did very basic construction.
But my just off the cuff guesstimates, assuming 1500 sq ft ranch house:
Lumber for framing: $4,100 Toilets: $240 Fasteners: $500 Drywall: $1,500 Piping, fittings: $1,000 Electrical: $2,500 (assuming electric stove, and electric dryer) HVAC: $8,000 …. I start to see a hard time doing it for 30k, but, I’m sure there’s a way!
Re: free stuff, this is how my house was built.
Leftover materials from a construction site have to be disposed... Unless you are a builder who wants a house and owns a truck and some land... It is a weird house, but built with pretty nice materials. I bought it from the nephew of the builder.
Leftover materials from a construction site have to be disposed... Unless you are a builder who wants a house and owns a truck and some land... It is a weird house, but built with pretty nice materials. I bought it from the nephew of the builder.
This is how my grandfather started his home-building business. He built one house using scraps, cutoffs, and reclaimed materials from demolitions. Once he completed the house a local man who had been watching the construction offered to buy it. He sold that house and made enough money to buy another lot and build another larger house. People started coming to him to have him build homes and he became a custom home builder, building homes, churches, businesses, etc. all over the area for around 60 years till he passed away.
Do not attempt to mill your own lumber for your own house. Unless you are building a log cabin in BFE Alaska where you can't truck anything in and need to remove the trees anyway it just ain't worth it for the labor you'll have invested.
Second, blocks and bricks are a massive f-ing waste of labor when working as an individual since you have to handle them so many times. It's worth forming up 10yd worth of stuff and paying for a truck.
You can probably get it done under $30k if you are super cheap and only buy materials at auction and buy used tools.
Second, blocks and bricks are a massive f-ing waste of labor when working as an individual since you have to handle them so many times. It's worth forming up 10yd worth of stuff and paying for a truck.
You can probably get it done under $30k if you are super cheap and only buy materials at auction and buy used tools.
Having milled my own lumber, I will 100% say it is not worth it for the time and energy involved if I was using it to build a house.
It is worth it when you have trees that will otherwise go to waste, and you can get high quality appearance / live edge / etc cuts out of it.
If I had a lot of trees that needed to be cleared, and lots of time, I might be tempted to try using a portable mill in the 25hp range.
Bricks as an individual are miserable to handle. Even with tongs it’s tedious. When I was younger, I once reclaimed tons of brick from a house that was being demolished. More recently from a driveway someone removed. Both times in small amounts(<1,000 bricks) for specific projects.
I do know of a story of a restaurant, local to me, that somehow ended up needing to reclaim all these bricks that had mortar still on them. They invited over everyone they knew, gave out free beer and wine, and lots of eye protection, hammers etc. I can’t imagine it was an easy project but they successfully reclaimed it to build part of their facility.
It is worth it when you have trees that will otherwise go to waste, and you can get high quality appearance / live edge / etc cuts out of it.
If I had a lot of trees that needed to be cleared, and lots of time, I might be tempted to try using a portable mill in the 25hp range.
Bricks as an individual are miserable to handle. Even with tongs it’s tedious. When I was younger, I once reclaimed tons of brick from a house that was being demolished. More recently from a driveway someone removed. Both times in small amounts(<1,000 bricks) for specific projects.
I do know of a story of a restaurant, local to me, that somehow ended up needing to reclaim all these bricks that had mortar still on them. They invited over everyone they knew, gave out free beer and wine, and lots of eye protection, hammers etc. I can’t imagine it was an easy project but they successfully reclaimed it to build part of their facility.
6" CMU (blocks) is what I used for foundation. Much faster than bricks, and lighter until filled with grout.
I built my block foundation in 4 weekends. I would use a truck for footings and grout next time as mixing and wheel barrowing 300 60# bags of quikrete was brutal. Total cost was <4000, but that includes excavator rental and site prep. If you hire a truck i think it is difficult to handle that much without help and you are fucked if it sets too soon.
A concrete truck would not even make it down my road though... and many of the blocks were carried in small bundles by 4x4 truck. Building a road for heavy trucks would probably cost as much as the house.
A concrete truck would not even make it down my road though... and many of the blocks were carried in small bundles by 4x4 truck. Building a road for heavy trucks would probably cost as much as the house.
> If you hire a truck i think it is difficult to handle that much without help and you are fucked if it sets too soon.
Foundations, walls and footings are cake because they're all formed, you just gotta finish the top. It's the flatwork that has lots of finished area for volume and is very laborious
Foundations, walls and footings are cake because they're all formed, you just gotta finish the top. It's the flatwork that has lots of finished area for volume and is very laborious
I wouldn't recommend it if anything were to go wrong. It's a quick way to end up in bankruptcy if anyone gets hurt, or if your neighbors property gets damaged
Not getting hurt isn't hard. Not trashing your neighbor's property is even easier. But this isn't the kind of project one should take on with zero experience. Do yourself a favor and buy a backhoe that's a runner to start with even if it costs 5x more than a project.
> Not getting hurt isn't hard.
Are you certain?
I've done plenty of DIY projects, and as soon as you start using hand tools, the risk goes up, especially if you include cutting or drilling.
Are you certain?
I've done plenty of DIY projects, and as soon as you start using hand tools, the risk goes up, especially if you include cutting or drilling.
Thats what liability insurance is for, which you need if you own property, whether anything is built on it or not.
Claim denied (mumbles reasons and lengthy and expensive appeals process). Balance due immediately.
I wonder if you could end up in jail.
Probably, if you do something blatantly negligent and kill someone. Short of manslaughter, though, I suspect jail or prison time is pretty unlikely. You'll still be financially ruined if you don't have insurance or your insurance won't cover your foolishness though.
The most likely path to jail probably involves putting a bullet in a problem neighbor or government official rather than an accident of any sort.
One less person to compete for the scraps and pay top price for the mass produced craps. /s
600 sqft 2 bd / 1 ba
Mostly no help
Not include tools or land but include renting an excavator to do the site prep and dig footings
Vinyl and drywall
Mostly no help
Not include tools or land but include renting an excavator to do the site prep and dig footings
Vinyl and drywall
That costs $100K not $300K
You built a shed.
Legally it has a valid county permit as a home.
How did you get a permit without an inspection and being up to code? Is it just something you buy in your county?
I drew a square on a map, they stamped it, and that was that. And for record I built to minimum code, but no one was looking.
Rural area permits can be more of a "you're not building too close to the edge of your property, ok great" kind of a deal.
permits depend on location. Big difference between say NYC and unincorporated land in BFE.
How did you get permitted without an inspection or adhering to code?
In rural areas this isn't too hard as they often don't have the in the first place. Of course there are reasons people generally live in cities.
Also reasons for codes, don't want to have to wonder if every building you're in is a death trap. And when buying a house you don't want to have to tear it apart to inspect it and look for balloon framing or lack of fire stops.
Nobody is building death traps to live in as their own home. The people who are only on a deathtrap budget are not engaging in those projects, they're renting. The people building death traps are slumlords dividing shit and fly by night contractors and flippers altering things <screeches in open floor plan>.
That is false. Plenty of people build death traps as their own home. Nobody will know if you remove a load bearing wall without a permit so long as you are not obvious about that work. Slumlords are generally in a place where people will know.
Slumlords do want cheap, but they need to get money from the bank and that means the bank will care about quality. Slumlords also don't want to lose everything if the building burns. Note however that quality to a bank and slumlord are things you cannot see and so their buildings often look dangerous while being safe. (I'm not saying all slumlords are perfect, just that their reputation is on a few graphic failures that often were 100 years ago)
Slumlords do want cheap, but they need to get money from the bank and that means the bank will care about quality. Slumlords also don't want to lose everything if the building burns. Note however that quality to a bank and slumlord are things you cannot see and so their buildings often look dangerous while being safe. (I'm not saying all slumlords are perfect, just that their reputation is on a few graphic failures that often were 100 years ago)
The permit isn't what keeps you safe (except from being shot by the government at the behest of people who think like you). What keeps you safe is not doing a shit job. When working in one's own home it's far easier to just over-build things than to engineer things to the bare minimum or pay someone to tell you what that minimum is.
Also slumlords are the guys doubling the number of units in an existing triple decker, not the guys building new stuff.
Also slumlords are the guys doubling the number of units in an existing triple decker, not the guys building new stuff.
Flippers bid the death traps to oblivion during circa 0% loan inflation binge fest during COVID. I tried looking for a freestanding deathtrap first but they were all 160k+ and that's burnt to a husk. That is how I ended up DIYing from raw land.
What? Regulations are in place whether you buy or do the work yourself.
In a consumerist society, decreasing consumption is a radical act. Saying something against advertisers is tantamount to hate speech on social media.
Sometimes it's also nonsense. Keeping an old energy-hungry 50's refrigerator or driving a 25mpg volkswagon beetle doesn't add up.
If you also drive less the beetle does make perfect sense. Especially when the car is paid off and you fix it yourself.
The fridge may or may not make sense depending on bow long you think your new fridge will go until it fails. Having to buy a new fridge is expensive.
The fridge may or may not make sense depending on bow long you think your new fridge will go until it fails. Having to buy a new fridge is expensive.
the fridge might be a stronger argument. It's like trying to mine bitcoin with a cpu.
We buy stuff we don’t really need, and we in reality can’t afford, to Impress people we don’t really like,, or know ! We the people control are in control of everything, regardless of how you think government is at the helm, when you stop buying cheap knock off crap from Amazon(aka China), “we the people” can do way more damage than any government action ! So let’s get busy,,less is more, cheers
Buying less is the ultimate control for inflation. In fact, price discrimination is necessary to control inflation.
Inflation is a separate variable that influences prices regardless of what any consumers think about prices. In the long run, if the money is in the system, it will be spent. Our perception of what constitutes a high price is largely dependent on the money supply.
I'm frankly astounded at the difference in gas prices you'll see.
At one point within 2 blocks there was a station selling $1.6 less, and it wasn't even crazy busy. The other station still had plenty of business.
The price difference isn't as large now that prices have come down, but it's $0.7, and both are still just as busy as before.
The price difference isn't as large now that prices have come down, but it's $0.7, and both are still just as busy as before.
We need this but for the government at local, state, and federal levels. The amount of spending and also just plain growth in number of public employees is outrageous, a big risk for the public, and also just disrespectful of taxpayers whose hard earned money is wasted.
Somehow a guy who is trying to do something like that is very hated here...
> Rachel Holdsworth, a part-time nurse and stay-at-home mom, came across no-buy videos around the holidays. Holdsworth wanted to pay off her family’s $10,000 credit-card debt. The 28-year old and her husband, Macy, also wanted to stop living paycheck to paycheck
How do you get $10k in credit card debt?!?
I've gotten up to $4k at one point, but I was using my credit card to pay my college's tuition payment plan.
> Marissa Huertas-Crespo, a 25-year-old financial analyst has done what she calls “low buys” over several years. Whenever she sees something she likes, she takes a screenshot of the item, puts it in a folder on her computer and—at the end of each month—deletes anything she hasn’t thought about. At the end of every quarter, she’ll allow herself to buy something from this folder with money she set aside in a savings account.
That's a smart strategy.
How do you get $10k in credit card debt?!?
I've gotten up to $4k at one point, but I was using my credit card to pay my college's tuition payment plan.
> Marissa Huertas-Crespo, a 25-year-old financial analyst has done what she calls “low buys” over several years. Whenever she sees something she likes, she takes a screenshot of the item, puts it in a folder on her computer and—at the end of each month—deletes anything she hasn’t thought about. At the end of every quarter, she’ll allow herself to buy something from this folder with money she set aside in a savings account.
That's a smart strategy.
A single medical diagnosis or accident could easily do that.
The average American credit card debt is around $8000. https://www.lendingtree.com/credit-cards/study/credit-card-d...
i started a startup on a credit card.
While my peers might take fancier vacations or drive nicer cars, I wouldn’t trade. I have a confidence in finical stability, and I focus on things that really matter to me.