The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae(nippon.com)
nippon.com
The Casio employee behind the “Sleng Teng” riddim that revolutionized reggae
https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-topics/g02027/
218 comments
Don't forget Moby's ‘dancehall’ remix of Prodigy's ‘Everybody In The Place’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWHc7rSv03Q
I bet that this is where many thirty-something people heard it for the first time.
I bet that this is where many thirty-something people heard it for the first time.
Joey Beltram, ooooh the feels
Now we're just left wondering what's a "sleng teng". Teng is maybe "thing", so we're left with what's "sleng". Searching for it I'm corrected to "slang", and if I force "sleng" then all I can find is the song itself.
It's just a euphemism for marijuana. "Unda mi sleng teng" is being under the influence of marijuana.
Lots of reggae/ragga is slang for ganja.
But not all. So quite offtopic, but it reminds me of a related topic, but not as funny or peaceful.
In my youth, this song was popular in the clubs we went
TOK - chi chi man
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xCrhfXjIEvY
We loved it. Very energetic. (my body still wants to dance hearing that riddim)
It was much later, that I learned, what "chi chi man" and "bun them" means.
Burn the homosexuals.
To which the artists say, it is only meant in a metaphorical, spiritual fire. Burn the filthy, gay thoughts. But since gay people get murdered and burned for real in jamaica, I cannot really enjoy it anymore.
(but I did enjoy the dark humor a bit, witnessing real homosexuals sing and dance to that song, while still being ignorant of its meaning)
But not all. So quite offtopic, but it reminds me of a related topic, but not as funny or peaceful.
In my youth, this song was popular in the clubs we went
TOK - chi chi man
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xCrhfXjIEvY
We loved it. Very energetic. (my body still wants to dance hearing that riddim)
It was much later, that I learned, what "chi chi man" and "bun them" means.
Burn the homosexuals.
To which the artists say, it is only meant in a metaphorical, spiritual fire. Burn the filthy, gay thoughts. But since gay people get murdered and burned for real in jamaica, I cannot really enjoy it anymore.
(but I did enjoy the dark humor a bit, witnessing real homosexuals sing and dance to that song, while still being ignorant of its meaning)
Oh no way.. we danced so much to that song. Thanks for teaching me that even though it makes me sad. I would totally randomly put it on to liven up a party.
Very good story, thanks for sharing. There's dissonance in every culture and we must take a good look at things like this, if we want to understand our human nature.
See also Barrington Levy's "Under mi Sensi", with the same riddim played on actual drums and bass: https://youtu.be/yFEvdWHK7GA
If "teng" is "thing" then "sleng" has to be "sling"? Sling thing? This [1] gives the definition as marijuana cigarette, so semantically it checks out.
[1] http://wiwords.com/word/sleng-teng
[1] http://wiwords.com/word/sleng-teng
Facebook recently used a version of this song in their first ad for the Meta rebrand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2W9YVkkn9U
"Way in my brain"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2W9YVkkn9U
"Way in my brain"
That is SL2 - Way in my brain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtoCjkZYxJ8
Or the infinite number of drum & bass ragga tracks to use this bassline e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t7x1FASMJ4
One of the YouTube comments makes an interesting observation that this is an entirely digital rhythm.
I like to tell people that reggae artists (more specifically dub artists) created electronic music. I don’t know if it’s entirely true, but there is some evidence to suggest this.
Well, electronic music in the broad sense is at least thirty-five years older than Sleng Teng. I doubt, say, Schaeffer and Xennakis were very clued in to what was happening in Jamaica.
But it's absolute true that you reggae and dub had a profound impact on dance music music in all its forms from the 90's onwards, both culturally and in the production methods and sound. I'm not sure I've ever heard any of the original Detroit artists reference Jamaican music as an influence, but the entire European side (which then moved back North America) is steeped in Jamaican influence, both directly and via the UK.
But it's absolute true that you reggae and dub had a profound impact on dance music music in all its forms from the 90's onwards, both culturally and in the production methods and sound. I'm not sure I've ever heard any of the original Detroit artists reference Jamaican music as an influence, but the entire European side (which then moved back North America) is steeped in Jamaican influence, both directly and via the UK.
> I'm not sure I've ever heard any of the original Detroit artists reference Jamaican music as an influence
Agreed, I've never read anything from Atkins and his progeny regarding Jamaica at all, frankly.
For those interested, though, the cross-pollination of "dub techno" that happened later is quite wonderful (and makes for great programming music). Moritz von Oswald brought reggae to Germany in the 90's and a dubbed out and cold brand of techno flourished from it. I recommend artists like Moritz's own Basic Channel[1] and the newer Echospace[2]
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLr52XxTfCc
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnubPGFQzPQ
Agreed, I've never read anything from Atkins and his progeny regarding Jamaica at all, frankly.
For those interested, though, the cross-pollination of "dub techno" that happened later is quite wonderful (and makes for great programming music). Moritz von Oswald brought reggae to Germany in the 90's and a dubbed out and cold brand of techno flourished from it. I recommend artists like Moritz's own Basic Channel[1] and the newer Echospace[2]
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLr52XxTfCc
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnubPGFQzPQ
Also,
"That UK Sound - Roots Of UK Jungle"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J88JmcrAVI
"That UK Sound - Roots Of UK Jungle"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J88JmcrAVI
yeah, British punk is heavily influenced by Jamaican music because of this, while similar American music doesn't have that influence at all until much later. Bad Brains being the only real exception I can think of.
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And a track related to honoring Hiroko’s contribution to reggae: https://youtu.be/VLZDucQFnuQ
and for anyone who's looking for just the actual track from the Casio keyboard by itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhsjL8FHXbY&t=13s
MAFFI's "Bad memory" riddim seems to be a variation on the sleng teng, for example here with Peter King's vocals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sZo-EPEOIo
> A different riddim (bookshelf), but great example of seeing the DJ at work on a riddim mix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyGhjR7CE3k
that's awesome. he's actually mixing! :D
as a vinyl DJ myself, i have to say mixing break beats is the most fun. you can really bounce rhythms around on the 2s and 4s, and the relative sparseness of the percussion lines lets you do some neat things by mixing in and out the highs and mids of two tracks while just playing the bass line of one.
fun stuff, and super cool story. thanks for the links!
that's awesome. he's actually mixing! :D
as a vinyl DJ myself, i have to say mixing break beats is the most fun. you can really bounce rhythms around on the 2s and 4s, and the relative sparseness of the percussion lines lets you do some neat things by mixing in and out the highs and mids of two tracks while just playing the bass line of one.
fun stuff, and super cool story. thanks for the links!
Myself, I got down this rabbit hole when reading about Sublime history. "Caress Me Down" features the sleng teng riddim.
This is a beautiful example of why people shouldn't be too quick to tag cultural borrowings as "appropriation." They often result in a back-and-forth cross-pollination that bears novel hybrid fruit we can all enjoy.
Agree completely, though, I also don't feel like this sort of (awesome) thing is what anybody is talking about when they discuss cultural appropriation!
Cross-pollination like this is, I dare say, universally loved and recognized as vital.
Generally when people speak of "cultural appropriation" it's a situation where you have a majority and/or oppressing group capitalizing on the culture of a minority and/or oppressed group.
Think of the difference between two prison inmates building on each others' ideas is collaboration, and a prison guard stealing their music.
Cross-pollination like this is, I dare say, universally loved and recognized as vital.
Generally when people speak of "cultural appropriation" it's a situation where you have a majority and/or oppressing group capitalizing on the culture of a minority and/or oppressed group.
Think of the difference between two prison inmates building on each others' ideas is collaboration, and a prison guard stealing their music.
Maybe that nuance was originally intended, but look around and you will find plenty of claims that wearing dreadlocks, rapping or making sushi at home are examples of cultural appropriation, if done by the wrong person.
Actually, that’s a good gut check to test whether emancipatory movements have lost their plot: how often do their prescriptions hinge on identity.
Actually, that’s a good gut check to test whether emancipatory movements have lost their plot: how often do their prescriptions hinge on identity.
It's gotten to the point where people are even criticized for tanning too much beyond what is supposedly acceptable for their identity.
That's a pretty fringe outlook. A good piece of advice would be:
Every belief, good or bad, has a lunatic fringe that takes that belief to some stupid extreme.
If we judge every belief by its most deluded lunatic fringe, then we would be forced to conclude that there are literally zero beliefs or ideas worth subscribing to. The lunatic fringe is always there, and it is always scary and/or really, really dumb.
Learn to recognize the fringe.
Every belief, good or bad, has a lunatic fringe that takes that belief to some stupid extreme.
If we judge every belief by its most deluded lunatic fringe, then we would be forced to conclude that there are literally zero beliefs or ideas worth subscribing to. The lunatic fringe is always there, and it is always scary and/or really, really dumb.
Learn to recognize the fringe.
I agree but it is also worth how/if the majority reacts to those kind of fringe ideas.
That's a good point.
I think perhaps the importance of that depends on how... unified the group is, you know?
If there are 3 people at a dinner table and one of them is acting badly, definitely hold the other 2 accountable.
If there are 1,000,000 people in a political party and 1% of them are acting badly, I think the 99% and the leaders are somewhat responsible.
If there's a vague concept like "cultural appropriation" or "cringeworthiness" that isn't owned by anybody, I don't know how practical it is for people using the term to really have responsibility for people that misuse it.
At some point there's just a practical limit I think.
I think perhaps the importance of that depends on how... unified the group is, you know?
If there are 3 people at a dinner table and one of them is acting badly, definitely hold the other 2 accountable.
If there are 1,000,000 people in a political party and 1% of them are acting badly, I think the 99% and the leaders are somewhat responsible.
If there's a vague concept like "cultural appropriation" or "cringeworthiness" that isn't owned by anybody, I don't know how practical it is for people using the term to really have responsibility for people that misuse it.
At some point there's just a practical limit I think.
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Or you could just not go on twitter.
The idea there is a mass movement of people saying other people tan too much is beyond delusional.
The idea there is a mass movement of people saying other people tan too much is beyond delusional.
> Generally when people speak of "cultural appropriation" it's a situation where you have a majority and/or oppressing group capitalizing on the culture of a minority and/or oppressed group.
I think the issue, as illustrated in replies to you, is that many people's only exposure to conversations about cultural appropriation are extreme examples brought to their attention by someone seeking to highlight how absurd they are (or more typically, get some click revenue) and not necessarily representative
I think the issue, as illustrated in replies to you, is that many people's only exposure to conversations about cultural appropriation are extreme examples brought to their attention by someone seeking to highlight how absurd they are (or more typically, get some click revenue) and not necessarily representative
Yeah. I feel like this is a very real phenomenon and is often done deliberately, and in bad faith.
Also various social media algorithms certainly contribute to it, as they favor engagement over all.
Also various social media algorithms certainly contribute to it, as they favor engagement over all.
Do you have any examples?
Sure. Plenty in the replies here; just scroll a bit.
Folks claiming the idea of "cultural appropriation" is absurd, because they heard that "eating sushi" or "getting a deep tan if you're white" are "cultural appropriation" and so therefore the whole idea is dumb.
It's about as valid as claiming that Linux users are maniacs because hey, I heard there was this one creepy dude at a conference once and he used Linux.
Folks claiming the idea of "cultural appropriation" is absurd, because they heard that "eating sushi" or "getting a deep tan if you're white" are "cultural appropriation" and so therefore the whole idea is dumb.
It's about as valid as claiming that Linux users are maniacs because hey, I heard there was this one creepy dude at a conference once and he used Linux.
What I occasionally see is that wearing other cultures clothing is seen as appropriation by people who aren't members of the culture, when actual members of the culture appreciate it.
If it is actual members of the culture complaining, it makes much more sense than when non members are complaining on their behalf.
If it is actual members of the culture complaining, it makes much more sense than when non members are complaining on their behalf.
Examples of the primary exposure to the concept of cultural appropriation being fringe cases the appear absurd? Sure, just search it on YouTube. Regardless of the vagaries of the algo for you, several examples are sure to be on the first page.
> and a prison guard stealing their music
That's a pretty tortured metaphor.
Would it be morally ok for the prisoners to steal the guard's music?
What if cultural borrowing is the societal precursor to acceptance and integration?
That's a pretty tortured metaphor.
Would it be morally ok for the prisoners to steal the guard's music?
What if cultural borrowing is the societal precursor to acceptance and integration?
That's a pretty tortured metaphor.
Would it be morally ok for the prisoners to steal the guard's music?
What if cultural borrowing is the societal
precursor to acceptance and integration?
I hope you are not misunderstanding the concept of cultural appropriation to mean that you should literally never collaborate with or incorporate outside influences? If so then, well, good news - it's not that.
I thought this was a really elegant summary and powerful metaphor that helped me understand the perspective of people who believe it's a problem, even though it didn't change my position and attitude toward its applicability. The idea of "civilization" as a prison (babylon) is a very rich idea in rastafarian culture on whose shoulders dancehall stands.
If you know dancehall and even an outsiders view of rasta culture, I read the article as using a bit of trivia as an attempt at a kind of ideological castration of dancehall music by retelling its origins and attributing credit for it not to a black rastafarian man in Jamaica, but to an asian woman in Japan. Rastafarian masculinity is problematic for american black progressives, and the article seemed consitent with their cultural unmooring project.
While the objection to the metaphor a reasonable challenge - that the metaphor has underlying complexity doesn't diminish it for me.
If you know dancehall and even an outsiders view of rasta culture, I read the article as using a bit of trivia as an attempt at a kind of ideological castration of dancehall music by retelling its origins and attributing credit for it not to a black rastafarian man in Jamaica, but to an asian woman in Japan. Rastafarian masculinity is problematic for american black progressives, and the article seemed consitent with their cultural unmooring project.
While the objection to the metaphor a reasonable challenge - that the metaphor has underlying complexity doesn't diminish it for me.
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The load-bearing word in that sentence is "stealing," rather than "prison guard."
it's not stealing
Yup. I'll never forget Darryl Hall saying that music is a continuum, which is why most of the times he allows his Hall & Oates sounds to be sampled by Rap artists ..
If you look into folk music traditions, one recurring theme you'll find is it's generally not clear who wrote a tune or lyrics, and multiple songs often use the same tune. That's the natural state of music, and the current system of so-called intellectual property is an aberration.
We don't know who wrote "Rolling Down to Old Maui" or "Drunken Sailor," other than that they were popular in the 19th century. They both share tunes with other songs that predate them, just like how there are multiple songs that use the same tune as "The Wearing of the Green." Countless people have performed and rearranged them, and the world only benefits from it.
Everything in art is inherently memetic, building upon the work of others and evolving.
We don't know who wrote "Rolling Down to Old Maui" or "Drunken Sailor," other than that they were popular in the 19th century. They both share tunes with other songs that predate them, just like how there are multiple songs that use the same tune as "The Wearing of the Green." Countless people have performed and rearranged them, and the world only benefits from it.
Everything in art is inherently memetic, building upon the work of others and evolving.
I think it was Pete Seeger who said that the greatest compliment he ever received was someone saying "Oh you wrote that song? I thought it was just.. there".
It was Manuel Machado who wrote:
"Until the people sing them, the songs, songs are not, and when the people sing them, then nobody knows the author.
Try that your songs end up with the people, even if they stop being yours to belong to others.
That, by melting the heart in the people soul, what is lost in name one gains in eternity."
"Until the people sing them, the songs, songs are not, and when the people sing them, then nobody knows the author.
Try that your songs end up with the people, even if they stop being yours to belong to others.
That, by melting the heart in the people soul, what is lost in name one gains in eternity."
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That's not correct. See the first paragraphs of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation
---
Cultural appropriation is the inappropriate or unacknowledged adoption ...
cultural appropriation differs from acculturation, assimilation, or equal cultural exchange ...
the concept is often misunderstood or misapplied by the general public, and that charges of "cultural appropriation" are at times misapplied to situations such as trying food from a different culture or learning about different cultures
---
---
Cultural appropriation is the inappropriate or unacknowledged adoption ...
cultural appropriation differs from acculturation, assimilation, or equal cultural exchange ...
the concept is often misunderstood or misapplied by the general public, and that charges of "cultural appropriation" are at times misapplied to situations such as trying food from a different culture or learning about different cultures
---
Yes, they're referring to the same misapplication you're referring to.
Who defines "inappropriate or unacknowledged"?
We all do, including you.
It feels like you want to make a point and I feel like I know what it is, but I could be wrong.
It feels like you want to make a point and I feel like I know what it is, but I could be wrong.
Yes, I suspect we know each other's points already, but I always am curious about how this particular element of the topic is defined by adherents of the group-to-which-I-don't-belong.
If we both define what's appropriate, and our definitions don't match, how should that disagreement be settled?
If we both define what's appropriate, and our definitions don't match, how should that disagreement be settled?
First of all, just to make sure we're on the same page about maybe one single thing, I don't think anybody thinks the subject of the linked article is cultural appropriation. I sure don't.
Ultimately everything is somewhat of consensus in society, right? I mean, even near-universal truths like "murder is generally bad" or "helping your neighbors is good" are just sort of things most societies kind of agree on.
Sometimes those consensuses (consensi?) change over time. Marijuana was legal for centuries, and then it wasn't, and now it kind of is again.
Sometimes the consensus is crap. In a lot of places there used to be a societal consensus that marrying your 13 year old cousin, or stoning religious heretics to death was cool.
If you've really done the work, and really explored why the groups affected by cultural appropriation think it's kind of a shitty thing to do, and you really just think they're just being crybabies or liars, and you're making an informed decision to disagree then, hey, cool.
Might not agree with you but if everybody put that much thought into things the world would be a better place.
Example: suppose I like to use slur XYZ because it's funny to me, and I think humor is a great way to bridge the gaps between people, and it would be better if we all decided to simply not let words hurt us. (I actually do feel that way!)
But a lot of people from group ABC feel like it's pretty crappy for me to use XYZ.
I could just simply think they're being oversensitive, and keep saying XYZ but like... is using XYZ really that important to me? It's pretty easy for me to stop using a word. That's a pretty small cost. If it might do some good, or at least make somebody else's day better, fuck it. I'm generally happy to pay that small cost.
Ultimately everything is somewhat of consensus in society, right? I mean, even near-universal truths like "murder is generally bad" or "helping your neighbors is good" are just sort of things most societies kind of agree on.
Sometimes those consensuses (consensi?) change over time. Marijuana was legal for centuries, and then it wasn't, and now it kind of is again.
Sometimes the consensus is crap. In a lot of places there used to be a societal consensus that marrying your 13 year old cousin, or stoning religious heretics to death was cool.
If you've really done the work, and really explored why the groups affected by cultural appropriation think it's kind of a shitty thing to do, and you really just think they're just being crybabies or liars, and you're making an informed decision to disagree then, hey, cool.
Might not agree with you but if everybody put that much thought into things the world would be a better place.
how should that disagreement be settled
Example: suppose I like to use slur XYZ because it's funny to me, and I think humor is a great way to bridge the gaps between people, and it would be better if we all decided to simply not let words hurt us. (I actually do feel that way!)
But a lot of people from group ABC feel like it's pretty crappy for me to use XYZ.
I could just simply think they're being oversensitive, and keep saying XYZ but like... is using XYZ really that important to me? It's pretty easy for me to stop using a word. That's a pretty small cost. If it might do some good, or at least make somebody else's day better, fuck it. I'm generally happy to pay that small cost.
Or to give maybe a more direct example: a friend of mine (who is not Native American) used to make those “dream catcher” wall hangings.
Obviously she meant no harm and saw it as a tribute; a sign of appreciation.
A few people told her why it was not cool. She didn’t really understand/agree. But it’s also like: did she really need to make dream catchers? So, she relented, and just made different crafts.
Moral being: she disagreed with the “consensus”, but still recognized that hey - it really did amount to to stepping on another groups’ toes, at least in their eyes, so why not just stop doing it?
She wasn’t shamed, or canceled, or throw in jail. She just acted in a way she felt was for the common good. Didn’t cost her anything.
Obviously she meant no harm and saw it as a tribute; a sign of appreciation.
A few people told her why it was not cool. She didn’t really understand/agree. But it’s also like: did she really need to make dream catchers? So, she relented, and just made different crafts.
Moral being: she disagreed with the “consensus”, but still recognized that hey - it really did amount to to stepping on another groups’ toes, at least in their eyes, so why not just stop doing it?
She wasn’t shamed, or canceled, or throw in jail. She just acted in a way she felt was for the common good. Didn’t cost her anything.
> a friend of mine (who is not Native American) used to make those “dream catcher” wall hangings.
> A few people told her why it was not cool.
Were those people Native American?
> A few people told her why it was not cool.
Were those people Native American?
I think it's not super relevant but: my understanding is that they were of partial Native American descent.
Reason why I say it's not super relevant in this particular case? As a white person, it would be ridiculous for me to attempt to speak for Native Americans or any other group. But it would be perfectly OK for me to say e.g. "hey, I think a lot of Native Americans aren't cool with white people making 'dream catchers' -- maybe look into that? Also here are some links to Native Americans talking about it?"
Reason why I say it's not super relevant in this particular case? As a white person, it would be ridiculous for me to attempt to speak for Native Americans or any other group. But it would be perfectly OK for me to say e.g. "hey, I think a lot of Native Americans aren't cool with white people making 'dream catchers' -- maybe look into that? Also here are some links to Native Americans talking about it?"
This line of thinking seems so bizarre to me, perhaps because I'm not from the USA. You basically say that the race of people should govern what they do or not (make a specific art) or decides the truth value of their claims (you can't say X as a white person, but a native American can). It seems like in the quest of combating racism, you just ended up in a form of racism that's just inverted the direction of the previous one.
Suppose you’re my coworker.
I can’t really speak for you. I don’t know your opinions! You didn’t ask me to be your spokesperson. Cool? Makes sense?
But, I remember that one time you said you’re allergic to nuts.
Next year, somebody’s making cookies for the office. He asks what kind of cookies everybody likes. He’s thinking of making macadamia nut cookies. You’re out of the office that day.
“Oh, I’m not sure what kind of cookies hn_ta_234465 likes,” I say. “But I do remember that he’s allergic to nuts.”
Does that make sense? I’m not your spokesman and it would be weird/rude to put words in your mouth. But it makes 100% sense for me to refer to something you’ve already said.
Simple.
I can’t really speak for you. I don’t know your opinions! You didn’t ask me to be your spokesperson. Cool? Makes sense?
But, I remember that one time you said you’re allergic to nuts.
Next year, somebody’s making cookies for the office. He asks what kind of cookies everybody likes. He’s thinking of making macadamia nut cookies. You’re out of the office that day.
“Oh, I’m not sure what kind of cookies hn_ta_234465 likes,” I say. “But I do remember that he’s allergic to nuts.”
Does that make sense? I’m not your spokesman and it would be weird/rude to put words in your mouth. But it makes 100% sense for me to refer to something you’ve already said.
Simple.
So if my fiancee, who is part native, says it's okay to make and sell native-style dream catchers, I can just ignore your friends when you say it's not okay?
> But a lot of people from group ABC feel like it's pretty crappy for me to use XYZ.
Let's assume you had chosen a better example, such as abusing a religious symbol as the logo of a nightclub...
But there is also a whole lot of mindless calling-out going on regarding cultural appropriation. Most uses of imported cultural material are not meant to denigrate or minimize and don't do so by accident. "Stealing" culture is a stupid concept. Culture cannot be stolen, only disseminated.
Let's assume you had chosen a better example, such as abusing a religious symbol as the logo of a nightclub...
But there is also a whole lot of mindless calling-out going on regarding cultural appropriation. Most uses of imported cultural material are not meant to denigrate or minimize and don't do so by accident. "Stealing" culture is a stupid concept. Culture cannot be stolen, only disseminated.
But there is also a whole lot of mindless calling-out
going on regarding cultural appropriation
I mean, what do you want to hear? Literally anything you want to do with anybody else's culture is okay and you don't even have to think about it because it's literally impossible for it to be anything but okay?
There is a middle ground in which we agree that hey, some things are okay and some are better avoided.
> "Stealing" culture is a stupid concept
The wikipedia clarifies very well the concept of appropriation and how it's not a matter of theft.
The wikipedia clarifies very well the concept of appropriation and how it's not a matter of theft.
> But a lot of people from group ABC feel like it's pretty crappy for me to use XYZ.
There is no meaningful comparison between the use of racial slurs and cultural appropriation.
It’s not even a straw man. They just aren’t analogous.
There is no meaningful comparison between the use of racial slurs and cultural appropriation.
It’s not even a straw man. They just aren’t analogous.
I mean, yes, they are different. One is usually explicitly meant to denigrate another group; another is usually not meant to denigrate another group. In that sense, very different.
In another key way they’re absolutely similar: they are modes of expression that (in the eyes of some) harm other groups or (in the eyes of others) are not a big deal. And there are an awful lot of grey areas and nobody agrees on the definitions.
In another key way they’re absolutely similar: they are modes of expression that (in the eyes of some) harm other groups or (in the eyes of others) are not a big deal. And there are an awful lot of grey areas and nobody agrees on the definitions.
You’ve simply repeated the contradiction.
We know that slurs are meant to denigrate.
We not only don’t know that appropriation is intended to do harm. For any given claim of appropriation, we don’t even know that it does harm, nor that members of the group perceive it that way in general.
There really is no comparison at all, and it seems like your argument is that they are similar in that people disagree about them, which is not a meaningful point.
We know that slurs are meant to denigrate.
We not only don’t know that appropriation is intended to do harm. For any given claim of appropriation, we don’t even know that it does harm, nor that members of the group perceive it that way in general.
There really is no comparison at all, and it seems like your argument is that they are similar in that people disagree about them, which is not a meaningful point.
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QuestionCopyright.org has the same observation. They made a nice music video to further spread the idea, how "all creative work builds on what came before": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcvd5JZkUXY
IIRC that's actually how a lot of academics in cultural studies, history, etc, used the term "appropriation" until the nineties or so, when the more disparaging usage seems to have won out.
I don't buy that using a default demo sample from an electronic keyboard could ever count as cultural appropriation. Even in the most extreme case, the 'rock' sample in question that Casio offered up would ostensibly trace its roots to afro-caribbean origins anyway.
A Japanese person creating this after inspiration from listening to reggae music is cultural appropriation.
A Japanese company doing market research and selling products to reggae artists in Jamaica who like and adopt the included rhythm is... what?... according to your calculus.
I assume you're kidding, but if not... get a load of this.
https://www.google.com/search?q=japanese+cholo+culture&sourc...
https://www.google.com/search?q=japanese+cholo+culture&sourc...
The problem in enjoying the "cross-pollination" is that it never rewards the founders, and often rewards others that deliberately copy the overlooked artists.
Many modern works completely lift sounds and rebrand them as founded by someone else new. That is where the problem lies in modern appropriation. It's sad that social media now encourages people to completely copycat ideas and totally steal credit for innovation...
We should support original culture and artists just as much as those who sample them.
Many modern works completely lift sounds and rebrand them as founded by someone else new. That is where the problem lies in modern appropriation. It's sad that social media now encourages people to completely copycat ideas and totally steal credit for innovation...
We should support original culture and artists just as much as those who sample them.
Founders being rewarded is completely orthogonal to culture, in this picture.
Any knowledge or innovation could be “stolen” and used by someone else, whether its origin is cultural or not.
Using the possibility of value extracting theft as a reason why (certain) people should never find inspiration in (certain other) cultures… is just bigoted and nonsensical. It’s racist territorialism.
Especially when all culture is built on something that came before anyway.
Any knowledge or innovation could be “stolen” and used by someone else, whether its origin is cultural or not.
Using the possibility of value extracting theft as a reason why (certain) people should never find inspiration in (certain other) cultures… is just bigoted and nonsensical. It’s racist territorialism.
Especially when all culture is built on something that came before anyway.
I disagree. There is a history of issues in the industry, and with audience exposure that makes things much more complex than with certain other genres.
If reggae has been around this long yet Sting, UB40, Boy George, Snow, 311, Sublime, and Matisyahu are probably the people most Americans would think of as the best musicians making reggae music, it might show a bit of inherent cultural bias for both the industry and listeners...
If reggae has been around this long yet Sting, UB40, Boy George, Snow, 311, Sublime, and Matisyahu are probably the people most Americans would think of as the best musicians making reggae music, it might show a bit of inherent cultural bias for both the industry and listeners...
History must be replete with situations such as where a music producer buys a song outright from a semiliterate performer for 50 bucks and then turns it into a million selling hit with no royalties for the original writer. And that type of exploitation has historically been enabled or facilitated by a classist or racist framework where the original writer would have no conceivable access to fair compensation nor to proper legal representation. And that is certainly appropriation. But the fact that it's cross-cultural may be relevant to the appeal of the stolen good, but it's incidental to the act of thievery.
Hence, if Sting stole musical licks from specific performer(s), that's a problem. If those people would've been entitled to compensation but for the fact that they were poor island countryfolk incognizant of their rights, that's a problem. But if he just borrowed his musical aesthetic from reggae or from "Jamaican culture," that seems morally uncontroversial to me. Maybe musically derivative, but that's a matter of taste.
Hence, if Sting stole musical licks from specific performer(s), that's a problem. If those people would've been entitled to compensation but for the fact that they were poor island countryfolk incognizant of their rights, that's a problem. But if he just borrowed his musical aesthetic from reggae or from "Jamaican culture," that seems morally uncontroversial to me. Maybe musically derivative, but that's a matter of taste.
If asked to name a reggae artist, 99% of Americans would say Bob Marley.
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cultural participation
most of the segregationists just need inspiration and aren’t as exclusionary as they’ve been led to
most of the segregationists just need inspiration and aren’t as exclusionary as they’ve been led to
It's a bit unfair to categorize Japan as segregationist. While it's true they have gaijin housing and restaurants, that's meant to make the visitor comfortable, especially if they can't speak Japanese conversationally.
All culture is mongrel.
For those who don't know, "Riddim is the Jamaican Patois pronunciation of the English word 'rhythm'. In the context of reggae and dancehall it refers to the instrumental accompaniment to a song and is synonymous with the rhythm section... A given riddim, if popular, may be used in dozens—or even hundreds—of songs, not only in recordings but also in live performances."
The actual riddim sounds completely uninteresting to my American ears. But the novelty and catchiness obviously connected to millions of people at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riddim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjw7m-BKmQ8
The actual riddim sounds completely uninteresting to my American ears. But the novelty and catchiness obviously connected to millions of people at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riddim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjw7m-BKmQ8
> The actual riddim sounds completely uninteresting to my American ears
Dub and reggae are a part of the so-called soundsystem culture. That booming bass line is meant to be heard over an enormous PA system (often home built) designed to rattle your bones!
Dub and reggae are a part of the so-called soundsystem culture. That booming bass line is meant to be heard over an enormous PA system (often home built) designed to rattle your bones!
I remember not getting dubstep (also derived from dub before it’s export to the US and commercialization) because I was listening to it on my PC speakers.
When I finally played it through my hifi it was like a whole sonic landscape suddenly appeared and only then did I finally get it.
When I finally played it through my hifi it was like a whole sonic landscape suddenly appeared and only then did I finally get it.
Quick note to those that were potentially triggered when they read "dubstep"... Early dubstep was based on two-step and garage music, while at the same time heavily based on dub and reggae.
Digital Mystikz - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9H3i0T1iN4
Spaceape - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfyRjyKj05I
Goth Trad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d12dJbE_xxw
Listen to some of the early dubstep and you'll start to understand that parent probably didn't mean Skrillex, etc...
BBC Radio 1's original Dubstep Warz session is a great introduction to the original dubstep - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RyOlkDgy2g
Kode9's recently released Dubstep Warz behind the scenes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_wmgpQO6iQ
Digital Mystikz - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9H3i0T1iN4
Spaceape - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfyRjyKj05I
Goth Trad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d12dJbE_xxw
Listen to some of the early dubstep and you'll start to understand that parent probably didn't mean Skrillex, etc...
BBC Radio 1's original Dubstep Warz session is a great introduction to the original dubstep - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RyOlkDgy2g
Kode9's recently released Dubstep Warz behind the scenes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_wmgpQO6iQ
Hehe, I remember telling an American friend about 10 years ago that I was really into dubstep at that time. She was appalled and couldn't understand why a somewhat decent person like myself could listen to that kind of music. Much later, it dawned on me that she was thinking of US bro-step like Skrillex, while I in fact was listening to "UK Bass Music" like Benga and Skream and Digital Mystikz and Loefah.
Can Skrillex really be a bro when he's named after a Kingdom Hearts game?
All my homies hate Skrillex!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hLlVVKRwk0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hLlVVKRwk0
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Nice to see some heads on HN! Great list, and RIP The Spaceape.
You can find proper sound system culture in the states, though not much is happening since COVID. Tsunami Bass has an enormous PA and Reconstrvct hopefully will be back one day. Analog in Brooklyn did have a whopping home built system but it was sold off and the club is under new management these days.
Here's a glimpse into what this sort of stuff is like at a show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8037wYWZkU. That's the Dub Livity system.
The DJ cuts (low pass) out the bass line, teasing the crowd, until the 2:05 mark, as the MC toasts. The bass shakes everything – you can feel it in your bones. It's visceral. You can see why it was, and is, and continues to be a spiritual thing for many people.
You can find proper sound system culture in the states, though not much is happening since COVID. Tsunami Bass has an enormous PA and Reconstrvct hopefully will be back one day. Analog in Brooklyn did have a whopping home built system but it was sold off and the club is under new management these days.
Here's a glimpse into what this sort of stuff is like at a show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8037wYWZkU. That's the Dub Livity system.
The DJ cuts (low pass) out the bass line, teasing the crowd, until the 2:05 mark, as the MC toasts. The bass shakes everything – you can feel it in your bones. It's visceral. You can see why it was, and is, and continues to be a spiritual thing for many people.
> Nice to see some heads on HN! Great list, and RIP The Spaceape.
Can't believe my eyes I'm seeing this on HN. You can get the same experience at home with a SubPac. I'm not exaggerating!
Can't believe my eyes I'm seeing this on HN. You can get the same experience at home with a SubPac. I'm not exaggerating!
Technically low-cutting is called highpass rather than lowpass. I don't exactly like the low/high pass terminology myself either though; you end up putting a high pass at a low frequency to remove bass, and low pass at a high frequency to remove treble.
High/low pass = high/low frequency components pass through. Simple?
Yeah high pass / low pass have always seemed totally logical to me. At least once I knew what they meant.
I suppose they're not 100% intuitive or self-explanatory, but I can't think of a better alternative.
I suppose they're not 100% intuitive or self-explanatory, but I can't think of a better alternative.
A second-order 12db/oct low-pass has a 12 db/oct high-cut, and some unknown (hopefully minimized) amount of ripple in the passband. There's an advantage in naming filters after the more "interesting" part of the spectral response (eg. a second-order 12 db/oct highcut) where you're doing the most sculpting of the spectrum, where different filter orders behave differently, and different designs have different levels of stopband leakage. Though on the other hand, there's some benefit in naming filters after what's passed.
Because you let the high frequencies pass through on a high pass filter and vice versa
Can you tell it has been a while since I played a set? :) thanks
> and RIP The Spaceape
I really feel this loss in many ways. I've yet to find anyone that can match his prophetic lyrics, ominous voice, and Jamaican patois (combined with Kode9s and The Bug's music). Although I find all of the Spaceape material indefatigable to listen to. Self titled "Spaceape", Backwards, Kingston, etc.
So young... Very sad indeed :(
I really feel this loss in many ways. I've yet to find anyone that can match his prophetic lyrics, ominous voice, and Jamaican patois (combined with Kode9s and The Bug's music). Although I find all of the Spaceape material indefatigable to listen to. Self titled "Spaceape", Backwards, Kingston, etc.
So young... Very sad indeed :(
I don’t care what anyone says about it being “trendy” or whatever, Skrillex album Bangarang is one of my absolute favorites listened to extremely loud like in a car with a lot of bass. It just gives me tingles.
Coki - Old Hope https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9az72epXweo
Skream - Rutten https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOttZSnzG7s
Burial - Untrue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os9DYRZyk-w
Coki is just amazing. Although some might consider most of his stuff "Tear Out".
Red Eye - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yKxn54lXW8
Goblin - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd3s_jubB_s
Spongebob - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIpc817U_R4
Burial is my go-to focus music... it's so atmospherical that it immerses me another place where I can really focus, and pump out my work. Specifically a couple of mixes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6OMwz2uXGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=286BRp1iDNs
Red Eye - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yKxn54lXW8
Goblin - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd3s_jubB_s
Spongebob - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIpc817U_R4
Burial is my go-to focus music... it's so atmospherical that it immerses me another place where I can really focus, and pump out my work. Specifically a couple of mixes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6OMwz2uXGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=286BRp1iDNs
Goth Trad's boiler room is so much fun. There aren't too many folks who'd mix dubstep with drone and rhythmic noise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vN9i0BDIR8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vN9i0BDIR8
Never seen/heard this... looks and sounds amazing so far.
Seems like there has always been a strong connection between Japan and Dub music, and may even be the same for dubstep (the original, non-"brostep").
Same is true for other places like Brazil, France, UK (obviously). I've heard that Dub music isn't or never was very popular in Jamaica, and it was always other places around the world that really embraced it and sound system culture. Maybe even keeping it alive.
Seems like there has always been a strong connection between Japan and Dub music, and may even be the same for dubstep (the original, non-"brostep").
Same is true for other places like Brazil, France, UK (obviously). I've heard that Dub music isn't or never was very popular in Jamaica, and it was always other places around the world that really embraced it and sound system culture. Maybe even keeping it alive.
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I remember not getting DnB, until hearing a story about how it rattled the listener's chest in London's clubs. I get the idea in theory now, at least.
If the speakers weren't taller than you, you haven't experienced dubstep.
(Real dubstep, I mean, that has dub in it - not that mid-range electric razor Skrillex shit!)
(Real dubstep, I mean, that has dub in it - not that mid-range electric razor Skrillex shit!)
seen .. much bettern to hear the song in context in a soundsystem live tape (several on yt) - and possibly with cough cough sacrament - e.g. coxsone, killmanjaro, etc.
<3 the 'digital raggae' electronic pre-dancehall sound
<3 the 'digital raggae' electronic pre-dancehall sound
A somewhat Europeanized version of this Dub can often be found behind the query "steppa, steppers or dubtronica" of many platforms such as Spotify. Which, also, is best heard on either good headphones or with your head stuck down a giant soundsystem wall (don't do that, though, seriously)
You can do it, but get _good_ earplugs and nor for more than a few minutes!
(sSund system owner here)
(sSund system owner here)
You're listening to it wrong. /s
Dancehall riddims are tuned for the dancehall and, occasionally, the car show. It's a vibe and atmosphere that doesn't translate well to headphones. I can listen to 2 DJs in a clash go back and forth for hours with just 1 riddim. But after 1 play of Cash Money riddim, for example, I'm pressing FFWD for something else. Because the moment is gone.
Dancehall riddims are tuned for the dancehall and, occasionally, the car show. It's a vibe and atmosphere that doesn't translate well to headphones. I can listen to 2 DJs in a clash go back and forth for hours with just 1 riddim. But after 1 play of Cash Money riddim, for example, I'm pressing FFWD for something else. Because the moment is gone.
I agree. I tried listening to Clint Eastwood's Jah Lights Shining earlier today thru a speaker system I'm DIYing and it's really not the same unless you've got proper speakers.
> The actual riddim sounds completely uninteresting to my American ears
ok, let me try to make it more interesting.
you seem to think riddim is something from the past. you may remember the music from "run the world" by Beyonce. that riddim is called "pon de floor" riddim. it was created by diplo. (warning nsfw video).
riddim is essentially coding patterns for music. since each riddim has a name it creates a DSL that lets DJs and MCs go meta with the music and focus on making the most catchy sound.
another interesting aspect is it's free from intellectual property. it makes for a good example of the impact of free culture on creativity.
ok, let me try to make it more interesting.
you seem to think riddim is something from the past. you may remember the music from "run the world" by Beyonce. that riddim is called "pon de floor" riddim. it was created by diplo. (warning nsfw video).
riddim is essentially coding patterns for music. since each riddim has a name it creates a DSL that lets DJs and MCs go meta with the music and focus on making the most catchy sound.
another interesting aspect is it's free from intellectual property. it makes for a good example of the impact of free culture on creativity.
> another interesting aspect is it's free from intellectual property. it makes for a good example of the impact of free culture on creativity.
You better believe Diplo got paid by Beyonce to use Pon De Floor in a track.
You better believe Diplo got paid by Beyonce to use Pon De Floor in a track.
of course he did :) free culture does not prevent one from profiting from non-free culture. on a similar note, there's another thread on how Monty got paid twice for mysql.
And the other side of the coin: you better believe a lot of people were cease and desisted out of using Pon De Floor in tracks too.
My point was that riddims unfortunately aren't as free. But the culture around them uses them as if they are (at home, at small parties, in mixes for friends etc), until they're not (on the public internet, played at clubs, in mixes played on radio etc)
My point was that riddims unfortunately aren't as free. But the culture around them uses them as if they are (at home, at small parties, in mixes for friends etc), until they're not (on the public internet, played at clubs, in mixes played on radio etc)
The actual riddim sounds completely uninteresting to my American ears
> The actual riddim sounds completely uninteresting to my American ears.
I find the simple casio rhythm delightfully engaging and catchy! But that may be because I've heard it in so many reggae and dancehall songs I associate it with now. But the first time I heard those songs, they immediately caught my ear and made me want to dance.
Here's just an MT-40 playing the present. To me that's super catchy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq7B4MFbmgU
I find the simple casio rhythm delightfully engaging and catchy! But that may be because I've heard it in so many reggae and dancehall songs I associate it with now. But the first time I heard those songs, they immediately caught my ear and made me want to dance.
Here's just an MT-40 playing the present. To me that's super catchy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq7B4MFbmgU
I don't know that this is the best example of a riddim if you were to look at the ones that got big in the US. Which there are.
In 2002, the "Diwali Riddim" came out, which is the basis of several popular songs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diwali_Riddim
the original beat - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMASjABxHWE
Sean Paul - Get Busy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPQ3o14ksaM
Lumidee - Never Leave You (Uh Oh) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k03HK88HhmU
Rihanna - Pon De Replay - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEauWw9ZGrA
Wayne Wonder - No Letting Go (0:30 to start the actual song) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT1XhnfMT5c
---
Another big one is the Coolie Dance riddim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d31drv0VQsU
Move Ya Body - Nina Sky https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYbMvAB66KM
Culo - Pitbull ft. Lil Jon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy-vUCIm04M
In 2002, the "Diwali Riddim" came out, which is the basis of several popular songs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diwali_Riddim
the original beat - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMASjABxHWE
Sean Paul - Get Busy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPQ3o14ksaM
Lumidee - Never Leave You (Uh Oh) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k03HK88HhmU
Rihanna - Pon De Replay - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEauWw9ZGrA
Wayne Wonder - No Letting Go (0:30 to start the actual song) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT1XhnfMT5c
---
Another big one is the Coolie Dance riddim. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d31drv0VQsU
Move Ya Body - Nina Sky https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYbMvAB66KM
Culo - Pitbull ft. Lil Jon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy-vUCIm04M
> But the novelty and catchiness obviously connected to millions of people at the time.
And also spawned a huge amount of music: https://www.whosampled.com/Wayne-Smith/Under-Me-Sleng-Teng/s...
And also spawned a huge amount of music: https://www.whosampled.com/Wayne-Smith/Under-Me-Sleng-Teng/s...
Several songs in this style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIfzt7mtFyI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIfzt7mtFyI
The Sleng Teng riddim is one of my favorite reggae riddims.
Americans might best know it as the bassline from Sublime's Caress Me Down (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_LP4IU6XD4).
But you might really love the lyrics of Tenor Saw's Pumpkin Belly, which a song of the "old time proverbs":
"Whatsover you want / You have to work very hard to gain."
https://genius.com/Tenor-saw-pumpkin-belly-lyrics
Americans might best know it as the bassline from Sublime's Caress Me Down (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_LP4IU6XD4).
But you might really love the lyrics of Tenor Saw's Pumpkin Belly, which a song of the "old time proverbs":
"Whatsover you want / You have to work very hard to gain."
https://genius.com/Tenor-saw-pumpkin-belly-lyrics
I've been involved with the German Dancehall scene from around the late 90s early 2000s and danced so many nights to this riddim. I knew the story and how this riddim ended up in Jamaica at King Jammy's (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mop89McbxAE ), but could not remember to have seen an image of the actual keyboard before.
Here is a video where Wayne Smith tells how he found the preset on the keyboard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM2qMdop890
Here is a video where Wayne Smith tells how he found the preset on the keyboard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM2qMdop890
I used to keep a little list of riddims, here's more from sleng teng:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61kVhWClUZo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOMZlVLh1Ts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9mrs1Ge8fo
then there's stalag riddim:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4fjGwVpbm0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbQX0QmngYg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3d4Efp5TMc
and my favourite heavenless riddim:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBRzaoUe3y8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQXPTRIsEII
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJGa2-qBsSI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MmIP16H5jE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0BxPQIypnQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=himuq_-TM-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpgl8oK869E
then there's answer riddim:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4bN_lmTGRk
Overall these riddims are played at so called soundsystem parties - basically huge amount of subwoofers that your body shakes. Earplugs is a must else you'll get tinitus like I did. Stranger part is no photos are allowed and a lot of music isn't released online - it's overall kinda secretive subculture.
It blew my mind when I came to such party first time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61kVhWClUZo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOMZlVLh1Ts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9mrs1Ge8fo
then there's stalag riddim:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4fjGwVpbm0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbQX0QmngYg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3d4Efp5TMc
and my favourite heavenless riddim:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBRzaoUe3y8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQXPTRIsEII
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJGa2-qBsSI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MmIP16H5jE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0BxPQIypnQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=himuq_-TM-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpgl8oK869E
then there's answer riddim:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4bN_lmTGRk
Overall these riddims are played at so called soundsystem parties - basically huge amount of subwoofers that your body shakes. Earplugs is a must else you'll get tinitus like I did. Stranger part is no photos are allowed and a lot of music isn't released online - it's overall kinda secretive subculture.
It blew my mind when I came to such party first time.
I know this comes at odds with "no photos allowed" but is there some good footage on youtube?
Sounds like something I'd enjoy watching, just like 80s warehouse parties with early acid house.
Sounds like something I'd enjoy watching, just like 80s warehouse parties with early acid house.
Yeah there are
Jah Shaka is the first one I've ever went - has been playing for like 50+ years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMURjgim0Z0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IohY9uO3H8Q
Ruapuke Roots festival in NZ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj2gLczlSCk
Alpha Steppas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjy3MPvKOjQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLaY7-ggQ6E
Generally what you hear above is called a dub plate - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaJ0d6btxSM
Also worth noting - got dinged for smoking spliff - cannabis with tobacco and not pure cannabis...
Jah Shaka is the first one I've ever went - has been playing for like 50+ years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMURjgim0Z0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IohY9uO3H8Q
Ruapuke Roots festival in NZ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj2gLczlSCk
Alpha Steppas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjy3MPvKOjQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLaY7-ggQ6E
Generally what you hear above is called a dub plate - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaJ0d6btxSM
Also worth noting - got dinged for smoking spliff - cannabis with tobacco and not pure cannabis...
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Also reminds me of the intro to Creature Comfort by Arcade Fire.
Another ressemblance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dR1tKo1n5I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dR1tKo1n5I
How water walk go a pumpkin belly??
Engadget did a story around this a while back, apparently. It has less from Okuda, but some different details and other links and examples:
https://www.engadget.com/2015-12-04-casio-and-the-sleng-teng...
This is a very interesting story, and it's great to see Okuda acknowledged for her work and hear more details about that. Casio is a great example of a company that I just took completely for granted growing up and seemed completely opaque and impersonal to me. It's so cool to see the individuals that are behind all of those things. My brothers and I had an MT-40 when we were kids, I loved playing with it, and had no idea it had an impact like this.
https://www.engadget.com/2015-12-04-casio-and-the-sleng-teng...
This is a very interesting story, and it's great to see Okuda acknowledged for her work and hear more details about that. Casio is a great example of a company that I just took completely for granted growing up and seemed completely opaque and impersonal to me. It's so cool to see the individuals that are behind all of those things. My brothers and I had an MT-40 when we were kids, I loved playing with it, and had no idea it had an impact like this.
As someone who dj'd almost exclusively early (and late) dancehall and dub back in the early 00s, I can attest that this riddim has absolute magical properties. It is just one of those things where the tone, the key, the hisses, the bass frequency, the everything just clicks. The room will never not pop off when Sleng Teng drops. That, and it's sister riddim, Stalag. Like best buds, those two.
This is the rare kind of advertorial that's well worth reading.
From the same author (the editor of the site):
Tough and Timeless: Ibe Kikuo and the Development of the [Casio] G-Shock
https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-topics/g01192/tough-and-time...
....
Background on nippon.com:
The site has its background in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Echo which was funded by Japan's Foreign Affairs Ministry.
Later on it was funded by the Nippon Foundation, and renamed into the Nippon Communications Foundation:
https://foundation.nippon.com/en/about/outline.html
Funded by a generous grant from the Nippon Foundation ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon_Foundation
(eh, read for yourself; it turns weird and dark.)
From the same author (the editor of the site):
Tough and Timeless: Ibe Kikuo and the Development of the [Casio] G-Shock
https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-topics/g01192/tough-and-time...
....
Background on nippon.com:
The site has its background in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Echo which was funded by Japan's Foreign Affairs Ministry.
Later on it was funded by the Nippon Foundation, and renamed into the Nippon Communications Foundation:
https://foundation.nippon.com/en/about/outline.html
Funded by a generous grant from the Nippon Foundation ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon_Foundation
(eh, read for yourself; it turns weird and dark.)
And just in case it is lost on some people, Nippon is one of the possible pronunciations for Japan (日本) in Japanese. The other is Nihon. No, the Japanese have no consensus on the name of their own country.
Most late 20th century western musical movements and the cultural changes that came with them was down to manufacturers of instruments. It was usually a box, synthesizer or effects unit. Surely the R&D for new sounds is what music depends on?
You could create all kinds of new sounds and technologies and they would have no impact if audiences didn't connect with them.
Some people have a certain fluency with sound and music. It's not about training, although training will bring it out if someone has it. But it seems pretty innate. And it cuts through in a way that the work of people without the fluency doesn't.
Roland used to be masters of this. Their rhythm and bass boxes seemed like stupid failed toys, but they had a magic that wasn't obvious until they were handed to people who didn't try to use them in the "proper" way.
That's fluency from two sources - something the original designers somehow had (until Roland stopped being that kind of company) mixed with the feel the pioneering users had.
This story is another example of that.
Compare with - say - Yamaha's attempts to sell physical modelling synthesis. There was much money spent, a good selection of instruments produced, but it failed to cut through. Possibly because it ended up being a system of presets and directed constraints that limited imagination instead of opening it up. (Or possibly not. It's a mysterious process.)
Some people have a certain fluency with sound and music. It's not about training, although training will bring it out if someone has it. But it seems pretty innate. And it cuts through in a way that the work of people without the fluency doesn't.
Roland used to be masters of this. Their rhythm and bass boxes seemed like stupid failed toys, but they had a magic that wasn't obvious until they were handed to people who didn't try to use them in the "proper" way.
That's fluency from two sources - something the original designers somehow had (until Roland stopped being that kind of company) mixed with the feel the pioneering users had.
This story is another example of that.
Compare with - say - Yamaha's attempts to sell physical modelling synthesis. There was much money spent, a good selection of instruments produced, but it failed to cut through. Possibly because it ended up being a system of presets and directed constraints that limited imagination instead of opening it up. (Or possibly not. It's a mysterious process.)
For those who don't know, the TB-303 is probably the most entertaining story of this kind.
> ... the box was largely written off as a failure after just 18 months of production. It was released alongside the TR-606 drum machine as an accompaniment for guitarists, but with unrealistic sounds and a difficult interface the box got little traction upon release. [1]
It became the source of a signature sound in dance music, which remains extensively used today and can be heard in tracks with mainstream chart success. It's terrible interface is somehow part of its charm and it has been cloned in many formats.
This is probably the best way to experience it in a browser [2]
[1] https://djtechtools.com/2015/12/02/history-tb-303-rolands-ac...
[2] https://808303.studio/
> ... the box was largely written off as a failure after just 18 months of production. It was released alongside the TR-606 drum machine as an accompaniment for guitarists, but with unrealistic sounds and a difficult interface the box got little traction upon release. [1]
It became the source of a signature sound in dance music, which remains extensively used today and can be heard in tracks with mainstream chart success. It's terrible interface is somehow part of its charm and it has been cloned in many formats.
This is probably the best way to experience it in a browser [2]
[1] https://djtechtools.com/2015/12/02/history-tb-303-rolands-ac...
[2] https://808303.studio/
From what I've heard, sample libraries of acoustic instruments are a system of presets and directed constraints (inability to replicate complex dynamics, articulation, and pitch bends). I haven't tried physical modeling, and don't know if it manages to escape this issue, or ends up too complex to learn/perform or stuck in an uncanny valley. (This is from the perspective of orchestral-inspired sound design rather than more synthetic compositions.)
This implies that the manufacturers had a decent grasp of "where things would go," and I think that couldn't be further from the truth? All the good (or at least interesting) stuff came from "hackers," aka the scratching DJs, the guys who had to scrape for beat machines, etc. etc. Limitations being the inspiration and all that.
Or, in the case of New York hiphop, a blackout:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2014/10/16/roman_mars_99_...
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2014/10/16/roman_mars_99_...
I don't see why it matters.
I think the Roland TB-303 is the best example of what is being talked about here.
It was made by Roland to simulate bass guitars but spawned entire genres of dance music because of its unique sound.
I think the Roland TB-303 is the best example of what is being talked about here.
It was made by Roland to simulate bass guitars but spawned entire genres of dance music because of its unique sound.
I don't think it's necessarily the sounds, but what the article describes, "bringing the pleasure of playing a musical instrument to everyone". New ways of creating music end up in the hands of people that otherwise may not have gotten started, and new styles emerge.
I think it was always the case that the development of instruments is a major influence on musical styles. Sacred music and the church organ, Baroque music and the harpsichord, Romantics and the piano, Jazz and sax, the list goes on and on.
Today however, synthesizers can create any sound imaginable so we probably reached the end of the cycle. Who knows what will guide the future of music.
Today however, synthesizers can create any sound imaginable so we probably reached the end of the cycle. Who knows what will guide the future of music.
For the actual pure sounds that's right, but I believe there's still more to be done in the effects area (autotune etc) and instrument interfaces.
We'll never reach the end of the cycle.
Utility != usability. Synthesizers can create any sound, but which sounds they make easy to create has an enormous influence on what music is actually created using them.
Utility != usability. Synthesizers can create any sound, but which sounds they make easy to create has an enormous influence on what music is actually created using them.
By the way, Casio not only made calculators and synthesizers, but made both things in one: Casio VL-Tone VL-1 is a calculator and a synth/sequencer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_VL-1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_VL-1
The demo song from the VL-1 is a cultural reference for a lot of 80s kids. And it has its own history:
https://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/11993-vl-1...
https://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/11993-vl-1...
From TFA:
> Among music fans, there is a widespread belief that the Sleng Teng bassline was derived from Eddie Cochran’s “Something Else” or a song by the Sex Pistols, but Okuda denies having had any particular recording in mind. “I did use to listen to a lot of British rock, so I’m sure there must have been songs that influenced me. But really, the bassline was something I came up with myself. It wasn’t based on any other tune.”
But this video about Sleng Teng Riddim says otherwise
> She did give another clue. 'It was a 70s British rockstar, and if you heard the song it would be instantly recognizable, she said.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Hko8LRdyo&t=400s
The song is "Hang on to yourself" by David Bowie, released in 1972. When it came out many commentators said it was heavily reminiscent of Eddie Cochran.
So there's a clear line from Cochran to Bowie to Reggae. Stories about cultural references and echoes, etc. are really fascinating.
(Also, completely OT, but the voice on the Traxploitation video really sounds like the guy doing FabFilter's demos & tutorials. Does anyone know if it's the same guy??)
> Among music fans, there is a widespread belief that the Sleng Teng bassline was derived from Eddie Cochran’s “Something Else” or a song by the Sex Pistols, but Okuda denies having had any particular recording in mind. “I did use to listen to a lot of British rock, so I’m sure there must have been songs that influenced me. But really, the bassline was something I came up with myself. It wasn’t based on any other tune.”
But this video about Sleng Teng Riddim says otherwise
> She did give another clue. 'It was a 70s British rockstar, and if you heard the song it would be instantly recognizable, she said.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Hko8LRdyo&t=400s
The song is "Hang on to yourself" by David Bowie, released in 1972. When it came out many commentators said it was heavily reminiscent of Eddie Cochran.
So there's a clear line from Cochran to Bowie to Reggae. Stories about cultural references and echoes, etc. are really fascinating.
(Also, completely OT, but the voice on the Traxploitation video really sounds like the guy doing FabFilter's demos & tutorials. Does anyone know if it's the same guy??)
I really love the world of reggae and dancehall. The way riddims are covered and updated and repurposed and remade over and over in different styles by different artists.
It feels natural and organic. Human creativity building on and growing what came before.
It feels natural and organic. Human creativity building on and growing what came before.
The entirety of the remix culture is just something else. People turning something existing into something else, sometimes completely changing it up. For one I loved Burial's Archangel, for its haunting vocals, only to learn later that it's sampled from a (to me) unremarkable r&b song.
A great example is : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NVUZNsh2E
The remix is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGflUbPQfW8
The original is good, but the remix is something else.
The original is good, but the remix is something else.
I agree, the update is very well done.
It is an interesting read. I find inspiration in this story of composer Hiroko Okuda. When you work at doing your part to get the product to market you can't predict all the ways customers might use the product.
Also very cool that she and Casio effectively have licensed the beat under a permissive MIT-like license... just credit using the keyboard and have fun!
This is super cool. I instantly recognize the riff and vocals from countless 90s jungle & hardcore tracks even though I'm not a reggae fan.
Still have no idea what a sleng teng is though.
Still have no idea what a sleng teng is though.
Yeah! I'll always remember the "Murrrrrderrrrrrrrrr" in random jungle, hardcore, breakcore (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbPjiJ-4jMA), etc, years before I knew it was one of Barrington's
I’m sure the prodigy sampled it
Actually I’m wrong it was SL2! Same era.
https://youtu.be/xI8S1Nn6NRk
https://youtu.be/xI8S1Nn6NRk
Yeah that's the track I was thinking of. great stuff
a little better sound quality here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtoCjkZYxJ8
a little better sound quality here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtoCjkZYxJ8
Don’t forget this gem
https://youtu.be/gXCN1DhHTZA
https://youtu.be/gXCN1DhHTZA
Never thought I would see the day the sleng teng riddim would be discussed on here.
Related: I believe that the main reason why I could never really connect with the post-flash version of Ishkur's Guide is the omission of Casiocore. Just push 'samba' on that thing and away you go.
(or perhaps I just haven't found it yet?)
(or perhaps I just haven't found it yet?)
Maybe this is more common in Japan but I find it great that she still works for Casio after all this time.
SL2 sampled it in this classic dance track from the 90’s
https://youtu.be/xI8S1Nn6NRk
I had no idea until now where the sample came from.
https://youtu.be/xI8S1Nn6NRk
I had no idea until now where the sample came from.
I never realised there was some Kool & the Gang in there too: https://www.whosampled.com/SL2/Way-in-My-Brain/
There's a smaller YouTube channel I've been following - 'Traxploitation', that did a great video offering some good insights into the history behind the riddim, and it's inspiration from a certain pop star, worth checking out! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_Hko8LRdyo
I'm surprised that anyone would even think of suing users who use your instrument over the copyrights of its built in sounds! There must be some kind of implicit right of a performer to use the sounds produced by an instrument, although "sample" or pattern based instruments do tend to blur the line a little. Certainly, one must draw the line somewhere, cf.:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbaland_plagiarism_controver...
However the case in TFA seems pretty cut and dry to me, or am I mistaken?
As a musician that also does IT work, the part where copyright/law suit was mentioned troubled me a bit...
Artists aren't profiting massively from sampling. Even from making music in general. Actually, most artists don't get paid at all when uncleared samples are involved, and especially because of the predatory system of music publication. The ideal like they are the ones who should be sued worries me about a wrong take on the art overall. Perhaps Casio should have given her a bonus, because back then because of Sleng Teng, they sold a lot more units.
If we buy a piece of music equipment with presets on it, the license for usage should be 100% included in the purchase, or not included on the device at all.
Copyright is one of the biggest things that threatens music innovation moving forward. The Sleng Teng riddim was indeed influential to reggae for many years, but it was not a game changer because Reggae had existed long before it and even well before Casio. To say that Casio or Okuda Hiroko made the riddim and influenced reggae was a bit of a stretch... The vocals, use, performance, distribution and choice to use a Casio keyboard on the song were all by Noel Davey. To say a preset on a keyboard he used was responsible for a cultural era totally ignores what inspired Hiroko to make the preset.
To try to credit a preset as a cultural influence on reggae discredits all of the other aspects of riddim culture and tools that existed at that point too, Linn Drums, the DR550, The Effectron II, etc... So many things influenced reggae. As someone who was there during the era, Sleng Teng was a great track, but to say the preset revolutionized reggae is like saying modems influenced Internet culture.
Reggae is specifically a Caribbean music art form that has grown from the 1940s and spread across the world against great resistance, and the heritage and innovation behind it is specifically due to the artists that made each song...
Otherwise, we should probably credit Ableton and a bunch of synth plug-ins for pretty much every preset used on almost every dance track made now...
This article kind of highlights a major part of the discussion surrounding cultural appropriation, it's the ideal that something needs to be linked to "more favorable or esteemed" cultures to be more noteworthy or humanized.
Reggae is uniquely Caribbean in origins, artists faced great struggles to make the music and most did not get paid anything notable at all. Others are free to integrate the ideals however they want, but the origins, credits, authenticity, and history should not be re-written just to make a new story.
Authentic history of the Sleng Teng Riddim and Riddim Culture-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6geaZFHZC2g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It08Mt3q38k
Artists aren't profiting massively from sampling. Even from making music in general. Actually, most artists don't get paid at all when uncleared samples are involved, and especially because of the predatory system of music publication. The ideal like they are the ones who should be sued worries me about a wrong take on the art overall. Perhaps Casio should have given her a bonus, because back then because of Sleng Teng, they sold a lot more units.
If we buy a piece of music equipment with presets on it, the license for usage should be 100% included in the purchase, or not included on the device at all.
Copyright is one of the biggest things that threatens music innovation moving forward. The Sleng Teng riddim was indeed influential to reggae for many years, but it was not a game changer because Reggae had existed long before it and even well before Casio. To say that Casio or Okuda Hiroko made the riddim and influenced reggae was a bit of a stretch... The vocals, use, performance, distribution and choice to use a Casio keyboard on the song were all by Noel Davey. To say a preset on a keyboard he used was responsible for a cultural era totally ignores what inspired Hiroko to make the preset.
To try to credit a preset as a cultural influence on reggae discredits all of the other aspects of riddim culture and tools that existed at that point too, Linn Drums, the DR550, The Effectron II, etc... So many things influenced reggae. As someone who was there during the era, Sleng Teng was a great track, but to say the preset revolutionized reggae is like saying modems influenced Internet culture.
Reggae is specifically a Caribbean music art form that has grown from the 1940s and spread across the world against great resistance, and the heritage and innovation behind it is specifically due to the artists that made each song...
Otherwise, we should probably credit Ableton and a bunch of synth plug-ins for pretty much every preset used on almost every dance track made now...
This article kind of highlights a major part of the discussion surrounding cultural appropriation, it's the ideal that something needs to be linked to "more favorable or esteemed" cultures to be more noteworthy or humanized.
Reggae is uniquely Caribbean in origins, artists faced great struggles to make the music and most did not get paid anything notable at all. Others are free to integrate the ideals however they want, but the origins, credits, authenticity, and history should not be re-written just to make a new story.
Authentic history of the Sleng Teng Riddim and Riddim Culture-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6geaZFHZC2g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It08Mt3q38k
> Otherwise, we should probably credit Ableton and a bunch of synth plug-ins for pretty much every preset used on almost every dance track made now...
If there is one easily identifiable preset that is present in literally hundreds of songs, I'm not sure why it should be so offensive to recognize it as an innovation in itself. For example, the DX7 electric piano preset, the "Lately bass" on the TX81Z (which in turn was obviously inspired by the bass sound in a Janet Jackson song), or The Ultimate Soundtracker, of which derivatives have been used for literally tens of thousands of songs.
I don't see how recognizing the influence of these things is somehow disrespectful or that the recognition somehow discredits all the other innovation involved. As an extreme example, can't I say that the TB-303 revolutionized house music without discrediting artists like Phuture? To recognize that the technology was important and influential is somehow the same thing as saying that the artists and their ingenuity and innovation is not? Because I think the syrup is important, I'm ignoring or discrediting the pancakes?
If there is one easily identifiable preset that is present in literally hundreds of songs, I'm not sure why it should be so offensive to recognize it as an innovation in itself. For example, the DX7 electric piano preset, the "Lately bass" on the TX81Z (which in turn was obviously inspired by the bass sound in a Janet Jackson song), or The Ultimate Soundtracker, of which derivatives have been used for literally tens of thousands of songs.
I don't see how recognizing the influence of these things is somehow disrespectful or that the recognition somehow discredits all the other innovation involved. As an extreme example, can't I say that the TB-303 revolutionized house music without discrediting artists like Phuture? To recognize that the technology was important and influential is somehow the same thing as saying that the artists and their ingenuity and innovation is not? Because I think the syrup is important, I'm ignoring or discrediting the pancakes?
Sounds like Casio understand and have no problem with people using their samples.
But consider it from a very basic level - pressing a key and getting a 440Hz A is a sample - you can't practically stop people from recording notes - where does that stop if other more complex samples are stored in a keyboard?
But consider it from a very basic level - pressing a key and getting a 440Hz A is a sample - you can't practically stop people from recording notes - where does that stop if other more complex samples are stored in a keyboard?
What resistance was against it?
Racism and segregation for starters, there were also huge immigration hurdles for many artists from the Caribbean islands, many artists had health care related problems on the islands, tropical storms, economic depressions, governmental corruption, music equipment and resources were very expensive (because they had to be imported), and financing and funding for everything is a challenge citing that no other major music or film industry was located anywhere near to the islands (NY, California, England, etc.).
This is why many labels in the past would simply get their existing artists to "hijack" reggae themes into their music, because the islands were isolated geographically from public awareness in the early days.
This is why many labels in the past would simply get their existing artists to "hijack" reggae themes into their music, because the islands were isolated geographically from public awareness in the early days.
Not reggae, but I suppose that makes William Onyeabor's starting his own pressing plant all the more impressive.
One of her latest work: visual abstraction of spectrum analyzer tied to a Casio keyboard.
https://youtu.be/y0Oj2ZnlYBQ
https://youtu.be/y0Oj2ZnlYBQ
What an awesome article - from Japan to the shores of Jamaica.
And back to Japan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-7YtFEUzac
There's lots of Reggae and Raggamuffin music made in Japan and some of it is really well-made and authentic. (e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8aZI0aqR4c)
There's lots of Reggae and Raggamuffin music made in Japan and some of it is really well-made and authentic. (e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8aZI0aqR4c)
Can't forget to name Manudigital in that context, who did a lot of live sessions visiting singers and deejays with his MT-40: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULmYesM3F5s
Reminds me of the stock beat from the Roland TR-909 as used in Siouxsie and the Banshee's Kiss them for me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpcNaqkrPm8)
Great post, i like this video connecting sleng teng, casio and david bowie. Heavy basis for suspecting the duke was basis for the preset.
https://youtu.be/R_Hko8LRdyo
This YouTube video makes a compelling case that Bowie’s “hang on to yourself” was a strong influence on the riddim
https://youtu.be/R_Hko8LRdyo
https://youtu.be/R_Hko8LRdyo
Always sounded to me like Devo's "It's Not Right". https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mIteXTgqvIA
Choooooon! brap brap brap
[deleted]
Sleng teng finish already
https://youtu.be/_IyYXqH_HEI
https://youtu.be/_IyYXqH_HEI
And now she's working on a prototype "Holophonor".
my first keyboard was an MT40. happy days.
i've never heard the term 'sleng teng' but i could guess and remembered exactly what tune it would play from 40 years ago. iconic.
i've never heard the term 'sleng teng' but i could guess and remembered exactly what tune it would play from 40 years ago. iconic.
Absolutely love this.
There's no decent reggae after the early 1980s, apart from UB40 knock off bands. Give me the Pioneers, Dave and Ansel Collins or Justin Hinds any day.
I'm a avid rocksteady listener. Visited many old ska, rocksteady and roots festivals and concerts. I love the old stuff.
But it is ignorant and dismissive to place anything after an arbitrary date under the label "not decent". Plenty of wonderful stuff.
I'm certain you'll agree that for example Lee Scratch Perry produced wonderful music until the day of his death (August 2021). What he did with The Upsetters is magic. But even the albums he made in the months before his death are far more than "decent".
But it is ignorant and dismissive to place anything after an arbitrary date under the label "not decent". Plenty of wonderful stuff.
I'm certain you'll agree that for example Lee Scratch Perry produced wonderful music until the day of his death (August 2021). What he did with The Upsetters is magic. But even the albums he made in the months before his death are far more than "decent".
> There's no decent reggae after the early 1980s ...
Big reggae fan here (old reggae) but Mike Love, "Permanent Holiday" is quite something:
https://youtu.be/fU7hZ3smj0g
Big reggae fan here (old reggae) but Mike Love, "Permanent Holiday" is quite something:
https://youtu.be/fU7hZ3smj0g
Holy crap.
Thanks for this.
This is nonsense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3epH_KNnwYE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3epH_KNnwYE
I'm sure there's a million other reggae artists that I've yet to discover, but nothing personally hits more than roots reggae, I wish there were more of 1970s-1990s Lacksley Castell, Hugh Mundell, Johnny Osbourne, Barrington Levy, Sammie Dread, Johnnie Clark, etc, etc,
Going to listen to some you mentioned I don't know...
Just from the top of my head in case some here don't know them (if I start looking in my archive I'll find lots of stuff)... Not all "roots" but it's old stuff.
Zap Pow, "This is Reggae music": (I used to start my reggae compilation with this one)
https://youtu.be/-6G6PiRGCaU
Bunny Wailer:
https://youtu.be/tr0dyo7XGcw
Errol Dunkley:
https://youtu.be/D5Tg1l4pk94
Ranking Dread:
https://youtu.be/hkM14QObC9o (this one is really cool for the song talks about many OG reggae artists)
Jo Jo Bennett:
https://youtu.be/6Gawp4UPO2I
Marcia Griffiths:
https://youtu.be/ZA9FUDw3TNk (the theme is not "roots" but, darn, she's a good Jamaican reggae singer)
Max Romeo:
https://youtu.be/XcMNfX5yh28
John Holt:
https://youtu.be/smWVKR_LYjs
Horace Andy:
https://youtu.be/RCHTAu4In70
Linval Thompson:
https://youtu.be/2f7G9HFEbao
Just from the top of my head in case some here don't know them (if I start looking in my archive I'll find lots of stuff)... Not all "roots" but it's old stuff.
Zap Pow, "This is Reggae music": (I used to start my reggae compilation with this one)
https://youtu.be/-6G6PiRGCaU
Bunny Wailer:
https://youtu.be/tr0dyo7XGcw
Errol Dunkley:
https://youtu.be/D5Tg1l4pk94
Ranking Dread:
https://youtu.be/hkM14QObC9o (this one is really cool for the song talks about many OG reggae artists)
Jo Jo Bennett:
https://youtu.be/6Gawp4UPO2I
Marcia Griffiths:
https://youtu.be/ZA9FUDw3TNk (the theme is not "roots" but, darn, she's a good Jamaican reggae singer)
Max Romeo:
https://youtu.be/XcMNfX5yh28
John Holt:
https://youtu.be/smWVKR_LYjs
Horace Andy:
https://youtu.be/RCHTAu4In70
Linval Thompson:
https://youtu.be/2f7G9HFEbao
Delroy Wilson, Cornell Campbell, Don Carlos, Carlton & The Shoes, Garnett Silk, Bob Andy, Freddie McGregor, Frankie Paul... Personally I prefer the sound of the late 60s — Rocksteady: The Paragons, Lynn Taitt, Prince Buster, Alton Ellis, Phyllis Dillon, Bob & the Beltones, The Progressions...
I appreciate the recommendations!
Roots reggae was the only music I played my baby was in the hospital. So much so, I actually created a Spotify playlist of all of the songs we jammed together to.
Let me know what you think https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1qp5AfSmmKLwefGyaJfLxP
Roots reggae was the only music I played my baby was in the hospital. So much so, I actually created a Spotify playlist of all of the songs we jammed together to.
Let me know what you think https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1qp5AfSmmKLwefGyaJfLxP
You've got a nice playlist there. #63 - If I Could Rule This World is one of my all time favorites.
Most of the Soul Jazz Records samplers are on Spotify, well worth a listen. Unfortunately Spotify is missing many of the older/rarer tunes. There are some collectors who record their 45s and upload to Youtube:
- https://www.youtube.com/c/VROCKET/videos
- https://www.youtube.com/user/jahbuzzz/videos
- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfvSuY0GF6i7yPCX2qnrw5Q/vid...
- https://www.youtube.com/c/aeon23/videos
If you are into more funky Reggae stuff check out Jackie Mittoo.
Most of the Soul Jazz Records samplers are on Spotify, well worth a listen. Unfortunately Spotify is missing many of the older/rarer tunes. There are some collectors who record their 45s and upload to Youtube:
- https://www.youtube.com/c/VROCKET/videos
- https://www.youtube.com/user/jahbuzzz/videos
- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfvSuY0GF6i7yPCX2qnrw5Q/vid...
- https://www.youtube.com/c/aeon23/videos
If you are into more funky Reggae stuff check out Jackie Mittoo.
Yes, what a beautiful song! Alton Ellis and his sister Hortense really are timeless.
Awesome, I'll check them out! Appreciate it!
Awesome, I'll check them out! Appreciate it!
Not heard of Zap Pow! Checking them out now. I just replied to a post below, but I'll do it here too, I created a Spotify playlist of roots reggae I played to my lil girl while she was in the hospital.
It's full of my/our favourite roots, and includes most of those artists! https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1qp5AfSmmKLwefGyaJfLxP
It's full of my/our favourite roots, and includes most of those artists! https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1qp5AfSmmKLwefGyaJfLxP
Presumably plenty of Jamaicans (and others) would disagree, but I do personally like the sound of the 70s recordings best, especially the dubs, The Revolutionaries, Roots Radics, etc. Newer reggae has a lot of newer pop in it, auto-tune, plastic-y production.
It was never meant to stay the same, the old riddim culture went on for a long period without change... New dancehall is a bit too soft for me as well, I like ragga most, but I do miss the classic "red light" love song era... I'm working to remix some of the classics myself, and to create new vibes (without using auto tune).
There are many artists working low key on different sounds, but right now the industry is pushing the bubble-gum-gangster sound that is most popular right now... You've got to search real deep on YouTube for the best stuff.
There are many artists working low key on different sounds, but right now the industry is pushing the bubble-gum-gangster sound that is most popular right now... You've got to search real deep on YouTube for the best stuff.
I like the sound of those records too. I kinda wonder how much of it was the access to gear they had, I know lots of sound systems were DIY and people like Tubby and Scientist were electrical engineers.
Yeah sure, if you say so. How about this. Let's restrict it to the Pacific islands only and see what's been happening in reggae since the 80s.
There's a thriving scene in Hawaii with great music coming out to this day.
This one features two amazing vocalists, Irie Love and Fiji (George Veikoso)
It is wut it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZVF7QWjs44
Then there's New Zealand:
Katchafire: Way Beyond https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjKLocagFPw
I could have picked dozens of other great songs.
There's a thriving scene in Hawaii with great music coming out to this day.
This one features two amazing vocalists, Irie Love and Fiji (George Veikoso)
It is wut it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZVF7QWjs44
Then there's New Zealand:
Katchafire: Way Beyond https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjKLocagFPw
I could have picked dozens of other great songs.
I love the French digital dub scene for one, Pupajim, Panda dub, Dubamix, Mayd Hubb all put out fantastic pieces, like this one for instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgjvtib-Xi0
Midnite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJADi9axZ4E&t=9s. RIP Vaughn.
Wouln't you call groundation at least decent?
Original "under mi sleng teng" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjw7m-BKmQ8
One of my favorites, "The Don" by peter metro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnZuTOH2zoc
90 minute sleng teng mix (here's a bunch): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwLKc61dVWQ
related:
Under mi sensi (doesn't actually use sleng teng riddim but it's a riff on the sleng teng chorus): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_dwpUrWkE4
A different riddim (bookshelf), but great example of seeing the DJ at work on a riddim mix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyGhjR7CE3k
If you want to explore other popular riddims, the punanny riddim is a good next stop! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UkJRGIpzYM