Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists(citylab.com)
citylab.com
Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/12/berlin-bike-revolution/548297/
193 comments
How does Ghent's supply chain/delivery system function? In the US we have huge vans or semis to deliver inventory.
I was in Zermatt this Summer (no combustion-engine cars allowed) and everything /everyone is transported around in little electric golf cart type vehicles to reduce smog, which could block the town's view of the Matterhorn. Is it similar in Ghent?
I was in Zermatt this Summer (no combustion-engine cars allowed) and everything /everyone is transported around in little electric golf cart type vehicles to reduce smog, which could block the town's view of the Matterhorn. Is it similar in Ghent?
Pedestrian-only town centres are getting pretty common.
I can't speak for Ghent but it's fairly normal to have periods, early morning or late evening, where goods vehicles are allowed access.
It's worth bearing in mind that the centres of a lot of European towns and cities are fairly small and not very vehicle friendly anyway. One of the advantages of being pre-industrial is that it can take less work to be pre-industrial again. I'd expect that, in general, doing this is the US will be harder than a lot of Europe as the towns just aren't built that way.
I can't speak for Ghent but it's fairly normal to have periods, early morning or late evening, where goods vehicles are allowed access.
It's worth bearing in mind that the centres of a lot of European towns and cities are fairly small and not very vehicle friendly anyway. One of the advantages of being pre-industrial is that it can take less work to be pre-industrial again. I'd expect that, in general, doing this is the US will be harder than a lot of Europe as the towns just aren't built that way.
There are usually logistics centers on the fringe of the city. From there everything is dispatched on smaller city friendly vehicles. Small vans or ebikes like so https://www.dekra.net/media/newsletter/jpg/2017/ups-zustellf... or so https://www.ttm.nl/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/8892_333.jpg
Delivery by bike mostly when a car can't get to them. BubblePost is an example.
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Louvain-la-Neuve also has an interesting take on this. Like Ghent it's a student city but it's also a planned city, and was built as a "two-levels" city, buildings sit on top of a huge concrete "slab" and topside is completely car-free, with roads & parkings downside.
Not having to "burn" any surface on carspace makes the city pretty inherently walkable.
One issue is I don't remember the public parkings providing electric plugs for EC.
Not having to "burn" any surface on carspace makes the city pretty inherently walkable.
One issue is I don't remember the public parkings providing electric plugs for EC.
I still find that Louvain-la-Neuve have failed to build a city for cyclists, but I can't pinpoint exactly why. There are very few people who bike there, almost zero bike parkings despite being a car-free city. The city is small but still, some places are quite far by foot (>30 minutes walking from one side to the other).
> I still find that Louvain-la-Neuve have failed to build a city for cyclists, but I can't pinpoint exactly why.
That is definitely the case. I think they planned for a very walkable/human-scale city but made many of the passages just a bit too small, I remember side-roads where you can only walk two abreast and you have buildings/walls on both sides (at least some of the time) with pretty sharp cornering, that makes it very inconvenient and unsafe for cycling beyond a walking pace, definitely not safe to have pedestrians and cycles both going in both directions.
I guess the planning could have benefited from a few cyclable "arteries"/ring roads.
That is definitely the case. I think they planned for a very walkable/human-scale city but made many of the passages just a bit too small, I remember side-roads where you can only walk two abreast and you have buildings/walls on both sides (at least some of the time) with pretty sharp cornering, that makes it very inconvenient and unsafe for cycling beyond a walking pace, definitely not safe to have pedestrians and cycles both going in both directions.
I guess the planning could have benefited from a few cyclable "arteries"/ring roads.
I went to Ghent for the first time this year, just passing through.
That place is amazing, getting rid of cars should be a #1 priority for city centres with ANY foot traffic.
That place is amazing, getting rid of cars should be a #1 priority for city centres with ANY foot traffic.
> Antwerp also recently introduced a measure where only cars with a low amount of "exhaust gases" (can't really find the proper name as of writing this) are allowed in the city centre. I haven't been there since, but it's also something I truly admire going into the future.
Amsterdam is introducing a similar system for scooters. Older scooters are no longer allowed in these designated zones due to 'environmental concerns.' I don't really buy that as the reason though; the government has been actively making the centre more and more bike-safe, and scooters are an active threat to cyclists due to the shared lanes.
Amsterdam is introducing a similar system for scooters. Older scooters are no longer allowed in these designated zones due to 'environmental concerns.' I don't really buy that as the reason though; the government has been actively making the centre more and more bike-safe, and scooters are an active threat to cyclists due to the shared lanes.
Disclaimer: I don't particularly like mopeds, but I do care that (local) regulation is somewhat sane. This new regulation in Amsterdam is quite bad.
The argument about shared lanes doesn't really apply to traditional mopeds because for most part they are not allowed on bike paths anyhow. And soon the slower mopeds that are allowed on bike paths will be moved to the main road as well.
The weird thing about this new regulation is first of all that it applies to all of Amsterdam. So some north-south routes that go through Amsterdam will require insane detours.
The second weird thing is that 4-stroke engines on moped, don't get much worse over time. It is weird to ban them just because the engine is over a certain age. But the worst thing is that an older 4-stroke engine is way better than a new 2-stroke engine.
Getting rid of old 2-stroke engines is probably a good thing, but then banning all 2-stroke engines would make most sense.
The scheme only makes sense from a government point of view: automatic license plate scanners can figure out the age of a moped and automatically send a fine.
Pet peeve of mine: I find it completely bizar that city governments can arbitrarily ban vehicles. There should at least be national categories that could be banned. Not that every city comes up with completely arbitrary rules that from one day to another can have a significant impact on the owner of the vehicle.
The argument about shared lanes doesn't really apply to traditional mopeds because for most part they are not allowed on bike paths anyhow. And soon the slower mopeds that are allowed on bike paths will be moved to the main road as well.
The weird thing about this new regulation is first of all that it applies to all of Amsterdam. So some north-south routes that go through Amsterdam will require insane detours.
The second weird thing is that 4-stroke engines on moped, don't get much worse over time. It is weird to ban them just because the engine is over a certain age. But the worst thing is that an older 4-stroke engine is way better than a new 2-stroke engine.
Getting rid of old 2-stroke engines is probably a good thing, but then banning all 2-stroke engines would make most sense.
The scheme only makes sense from a government point of view: automatic license plate scanners can figure out the age of a moped and automatically send a fine.
Pet peeve of mine: I find it completely bizar that city governments can arbitrarily ban vehicles. There should at least be national categories that could be banned. Not that every city comes up with completely arbitrary rules that from one day to another can have a significant impact on the owner of the vehicle.
Another important point often missed in these discussions is training. If you take a driving licence in Denmark, a big part of the training is how to deal with bicyclists. I have also taken a bus driving licence in Denmark, and there it becomes an even bigger thing.
Like counting bicyclists as you approach a junction you wish to turn right, placing the bus correctly, so you can see the bicyclists coming towards you in the right mirror.
Generally speaking, most other European countries don't have this extensive training on how to deal with bicyclists for drivers, so bicyclists are naturally told to watch out for cars on foreign plates (with the exception of Dutch plates, I suppose). And since their local environment don't usually have cyclists, drivers don't get to deal with it on a daily basis.
One thing is building the infrastructure, another is getting everyone else on board.
Like counting bicyclists as you approach a junction you wish to turn right, placing the bus correctly, so you can see the bicyclists coming towards you in the right mirror.
Generally speaking, most other European countries don't have this extensive training on how to deal with bicyclists for drivers, so bicyclists are naturally told to watch out for cars on foreign plates (with the exception of Dutch plates, I suppose). And since their local environment don't usually have cyclists, drivers don't get to deal with it on a daily basis.
One thing is building the infrastructure, another is getting everyone else on board.
Training does not seem to help much. Here in Berlin, I regularly see Dutch and Danish coaches parked on cycle lanes in busy traffic, forcing cyclists to veer into traffic. Enforcement seems to be the key, and that’s sorely lacking here.
As someone who lives in Copenhagen: that's because the cycling lanes system in Berlin is pretty terrible and is set up opposite to how it's set up here, in regards to where the cycling lanes are. Having seen it I'd never try to use it myself whenever I go to Berlin. No offense, but the way people cycle there is also scary: here I can count 100% on the cyclists (myself included when cycling) to follow the rules and behave predictably like cars do, in Berlin it's chaos; stuff like respecting right of way like cars do, obeying traffic lights, not cycling in the wrong direction and dear god stay away from the sidewalks.
I've no problem with cyclists when driving here but holy hell whenever I drive anywhere else in Europe (haven't been in the Netherlands by car so I can't judge there, though it looked fine) the incredibly bad behaviours I constantly see legit make me angry at them.
I've no problem with cyclists when driving here but holy hell whenever I drive anywhere else in Europe (haven't been in the Netherlands by car so I can't judge there, though it looked fine) the incredibly bad behaviours I constantly see legit make me angry at them.
Cyclists in Netherlands are skilled, but they don't follow any of the rules. Red lights just indicate the one moment when cars going cross-ways have priority.
However, it's still predictable - the biker will always go first and take any space left on the sides and will often go the wrong way or on the sidewalk.
However, it's still predictable - the biker will always go first and take any space left on the sides and will often go the wrong way or on the sidewalk.
>> the biker will always go first and take any space left on the sides and will often go the wrong way or on the sidewalk.
Shouldn't they get fined for such behaviour? Why is this tolerated?
Shouldn't they get fined for such behaviour? Why is this tolerated?
The behaviour differs per city. Cyclists on sidewalks isn't tolerated in my city. Eventually they'll start checking and handing out fines.
What's super common is ignoring traffic lights. I also do that regularly. That's mostly due to pretty terrible traffic lights. IMO it just smooths things out.
What they hardly enforce is ensuring that cyclists have proper lights on their bike. Often nothing, sometimes something as bright as the a power indicator led (meaning: not at all). I often have trouble seeing such cyclists while cycling myself! They often also wear dark clothing and have a bike which doesn't have any reflectors.
What's super common is ignoring traffic lights. I also do that regularly. That's mostly due to pretty terrible traffic lights. IMO it just smooths things out.
What they hardly enforce is ensuring that cyclists have proper lights on their bike. Often nothing, sometimes something as bright as the a power indicator led (meaning: not at all). I often have trouble seeing such cyclists while cycling myself! They often also wear dark clothing and have a bike which doesn't have any reflectors.
When I lived in Amsterdam, the police always had campaigns at the start of winter to enforce bike lights. For a few days, police at major intersections would first remind and then fine cyclists who didn't have lights or whose batteries had gone flat over the summer. Very visible and hard to avoid. By the end of that week, nearly everyone was properly illuminated for the winter.
There are more bikes than people in The Netherlands, it's part politics, part ego (when I was on exchange in the south of NL I was told cyclists had assumed right of way no matter what)
Copenhagen is in a class on its own when it comes to cycling both culture and traffic organization. Pretty much I can't think of any other European capital that comes close (missing Amsterdam out of the bunch, though).
I’m not sure about the explicit training, but drivers in Germany are generally pretty excellent when it comes to dealing with cyclists.
Ha! Good one! Maybe compared with other countries? But that doesn't stop them from ignoring your right of way, parking in the bike lane, pushing you to the side at red lights or pushing in front of you dangerously even when its not you who is blocking traffic, because obviously there is nothing worse than being stuck behind a cyclist.
Not to pile on to much on the drivers, because other cyclists are also often terrible in their behavior on the street, but they at least are less deadly to other cyclists. So while it could certainly be worse, there is a lot you have to deal with when sharing the road with drivers who either ignore or outright hate you.
Not to pile on to much on the drivers, because other cyclists are also often terrible in their behavior on the street, but they at least are less deadly to other cyclists. So while it could certainly be worse, there is a lot you have to deal with when sharing the road with drivers who either ignore or outright hate you.
> because other cyclists are also often terrible in their behavior on the street
well yes. car drivers are bad. but cyclists, are too. in germany, freiburg the cyclists basically drive how they want. which means, they do not care for red light, they cross zebra's mounted on the bike (which is a no-go since stopping for a _fast_ bike is basically way harder than stopping for walking people), they turn left without noticing traffic behind them, etc.
this makes it hard to drive with cyclists. of course most car drivers also drive pretty recklessness.
well yes. car drivers are bad. but cyclists, are too. in germany, freiburg the cyclists basically drive how they want. which means, they do not care for red light, they cross zebra's mounted on the bike (which is a no-go since stopping for a _fast_ bike is basically way harder than stopping for walking people), they turn left without noticing traffic behind them, etc.
this makes it hard to drive with cyclists. of course most car drivers also drive pretty recklessness.
Compared with other countries I’ve lived in, Germany is a dream for cyclists. Of course, I haven’t cycled in very many countries even within Europe, so it may well be that Germany is not so great in the grand scheme of things - I couldn’t tell you.
As a German having lived in the Netherlands for many years: the Dutch win in this discipline hands down. Bike lanes that seem like an Autobahn sometimes. Very aggressive policy to try to discourage cars at all in at least Amsterdam. Everyone knows cyclists kind of have the right of way (mostly because they seem to ignore the danger of playing chicken with a car).
I've lived in two major cities in NL and seen a few others. While Amsterdam clearly went further than others, even the Hague was better for cyclists than a university town in Germany.
I've lived in two major cities in NL and seen a few others. While Amsterdam clearly went further than others, even the Hague was better for cyclists than a university town in Germany.
And the Prime Minister of The Netherlands (Mark Rutte) goes to work in The Hague with..? A car? Nope, a bicycle.
Hmmm, being Dutch living in Berlin I have to frown at this. In the busier areas around Mitte and Kreuzberg I regularly have to swerve around cars that seemingly are oblivious of cyclists. But I’m probably spoiled due to being used to the Dutch bike path system.
Maybe it's Berlin specific but I can't count how many times I've got bump/pushed by a right-turning car while going straight ahead myself. Usually it's taxis, delivery and BMW drivers trying to catch the "late yellow".
"While a few decades ago, many Berlin streets seemed eerily traffic-free for such a major city"
Let's see, a few decades ago = at least 30 years = no later than 1987. The Berlin Wall fell in 1989. At that time, West Berlin was an enclave of West Germany located inside of Easy Germany.
So, perhaps that had something to do with the traffic in Berlin?
Let's see, a few decades ago = at least 30 years = no later than 1987. The Berlin Wall fell in 1989. At that time, West Berlin was an enclave of West Germany located inside of Easy Germany.
So, perhaps that had something to do with the traffic in Berlin?
I was in Valencia (Spain) a few weeks back. This city is one of the most ideal cities I have been to for cycling; flat, perfect climate, riverbed running right through the middle of the city, spacious roads and high density. One of the inhabitants told me they dedicated cycling lanes a year back or so. That was visible: They had painted bicycle lanes right over roads & pedestrian areas. I guess when the Valencian people start to see how much fun cycling ones life makes, Valencia will become the cycling capital of the world soon enough.
Berlin has quite some traits for a good cycling city as well. A flat geography really helps here, along with a willing population.
Berlin has quite some traits for a good cycling city as well. A flat geography really helps here, along with a willing population.
Having wide streets where you can set side space for bicycle lanes also helps. After WW2, Berlin was in ruins, and the city was never built up to the density of many other European cities. The Soviets, in particular, were particularly fond of wide, open spaces. (The earlier Prussian kings also liked wide avenues they could march their soldiers through.) Berlin is definitely a great city to bike in.
The major factor here is Berlin's street width, which was chosen to be 22m by law in 1862 for fire safety reasons, much wider than other german cities. Consequently during WW2, Berlin proved to be a problem for allied incendiary bombs. At some point they were even building a to scale model city in the desert (Dugway Proving Ground) for testing various methods of igniting fire storms.
> Berlin, however, would “prove more difficult than most other German cities”, the leading incendiary expert Horatio Bond avowed before the national commission for armament research of the USA. “The building quality is higher, and the single blocks are better separated from each other.” As the tests at the Dugway Proving Ground showed, is “was hardly to be expected that the flames would jump unhindered from one building to the next”.[1]
[1] http://www.principality-of-sealand.ch/pdf/sealandbrief0503e....
> Berlin, however, would “prove more difficult than most other German cities”, the leading incendiary expert Horatio Bond avowed before the national commission for armament research of the USA. “The building quality is higher, and the single blocks are better separated from each other.” As the tests at the Dugway Proving Ground showed, is “was hardly to be expected that the flames would jump unhindered from one building to the next”.[1]
[1] http://www.principality-of-sealand.ch/pdf/sealandbrief0503e....
I never knew this.
And I heard plenty of stories about the Berlin air raids from my father.
And I heard plenty of stories about the Berlin air raids from my father.
Berlin Actually survived the war relatively intact, compared to, for example, Cologne.
Even in places where every second house was destroyed, street layouts remained unchanged. Mitte, Kreuzberg. Neukölln, Wedding: all These suburbs are mostly unchanged. Karl-Marx-Street was renamed twice, but was originally build at today’s width.
One of the problems with biking in Berlin are actually the cobblestone roads in many residential areas.
Even in places where every second house was destroyed, street layouts remained unchanged. Mitte, Kreuzberg. Neukölln, Wedding: all These suburbs are mostly unchanged. Karl-Marx-Street was renamed twice, but was originally build at today’s width.
One of the problems with biking in Berlin are actually the cobblestone roads in many residential areas.
Spain has been very much a car centric country but over the last years few cities have been pushing a transformation to become bike friendly. The biggest transformation I have witnessed is in Seville: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/28/seville-cycli...
If the cycling commute is flat, it has to be long to get decent exercise, because you have to apply a flat-out effort and you cover a lot of ground. If my bike commute were flat, I'd prefer to be some 14 miles from work rather than the current 7. Or else I would have to run it (more often).
To me, what would make an area ideal for cycling (if it has good roads and such) is: dry climate. No rain, no snow.
To me, what would make an area ideal for cycling (if it has good roads and such) is: dry climate. No rain, no snow.
Most people don't cycle to get exercise, they cycle to get to where they need to be.
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I'm Dutch. The Netherlands is one of the most bicycle-dense countries in the world, and we have a, well, less than ideal climate to say the least. Rain, wind or snow really isn't that much of an issue when you have the right outfit.
As the scandinavian saying goes, "there’s no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes".
Of course it can be hard to know/find good clothes when you have not grown up in such a culture.
Of course it can be hard to know/find good clothes when you have not grown up in such a culture.
If you live in a hilly city then snow and ice are pretty bad for cycling even if you are wearing the right clothes! Rain is fine though.
But cycling commute isn't about exercising, it's about commute. I live in Stockholm, it's cold, it's wet and not as flat as Berlin, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, etc., even then I bike to work even during winter because it's fun and a good way to get around the city, the exercise is just a bonus for me after biking 30+ km in a day because I had to go places.
People often seem to miss this. In many ways, cycling is a terrible form of exercise precisely because it is such an efficient mode of transport.
I'd say that cycling is an ideal way of burning fat. With a bit of training you can easily spend a whole day on a bike without risk of overuse injuries.
Most people exercise at a relatively high intensity which mostly burns carbs. Great if you want a cardio workout. Not good if you need to burn fat.
Most people exercise at a relatively high intensity which mostly burns carbs. Great if you want a cardio workout. Not good if you need to burn fat.
As someone who gets repetitive strain injuries from running and isn't a great swimmer cycling is a God send. I can go biking 7 days a week. If i need a blow out then i push a harder gear without dropping cadence... Or i do tabata.
Wouldn't being a bad (assuming you mean in the sense of inefficient) swimmer make it a good form of exercise?
Possibly, if i could get myself you swim more than 500m before giving up from boredom/dislike of drinking chlorine water.
You can burn 700-800 calories riding for 20 miles or about 1 1/2 hours.
I wouldn't walk that much (hours of walking) or run that much (a lot harder on the body), so to me it's really great exercise.
That's also why I find kazinator's post a bit exaggerated. That dude's burning through a lot of calories every week. You can eat a lot of ice cream (personal experience) and still lose weight if you're doing 14 miles every day.
I wouldn't walk that much (hours of walking) or run that much (a lot harder on the body), so to me it's really great exercise.
That's also why I find kazinator's post a bit exaggerated. That dude's burning through a lot of calories every week. You can eat a lot of ice cream (personal experience) and still lose weight if you're doing 14 miles every day.
Not denying that moving limbs is good for you! I also love cycling, which is a very important factor. I'm just saying that minute for minute, you spend more calories on inefficient modes of transport such as running or swimming or rowing or lifting heavy junk, so if your primary concern is maximising exercise in as little time as possible, that's the first place to look.
If you want more exercise, don't run red lights. Not trying to accuse anyone, just saying. The stop-and-go makes it much more exhausting.
My bike commute is only 5km one way, but it helped me a lot losing 10kgs of weight and developing good overall fitness and even some visible leg muscles. I try to go at a fast pace though, i agree that when you drive normally there is not a lot of effort involved on a 20 minute commute.
7 miles isn't much on a bike, but anyone riding 14 miles 5 days a week should be in great shape.
14 mph is a decent clip, whereas 20 mph is constant exertion. I'd hate my commute to be a hour long both ways and at 14 miles, that's what the average person is going to hit.
14 mph is a decent clip, whereas 20 mph is constant exertion. I'd hate my commute to be a hour long both ways and at 14 miles, that's what the average person is going to hit.
Damn, 12 weeks into bike commuting 12mi r/t and I gained close to 10lbs!
Do you mean 10lbs of fat? If that's the case, watch your diet, 10lbs in 12 weeks you are eating something averaging 370kcal above your needs per day, with biking (and assuming you are a man and don't do any other kind of workout) it means you are eating between 3300-3800kcal/day, that's a lot if you don't do hours of sports or heavy weightlifting.
Not sure, but I was mostly joking. I mean, it was true, and my diet had not changed from when I was more sedentary, but I've ratcheted things down quite a bit since then with careful meal tracking and even more exercise (130mi/week on the bike, 18 mi/week running, plus strength training and core training).
you can ride fat bike
ride a heavy fat steel bike with both front and back suspension and low tyre pressure and tyre treading for slowing the speed. Sit upright and keep the seat position low for inefficient pedalling.
good luck Riding a skiny tired racing bike in the snow when compared to a fat tired MTB
Both will suck ass.
If the snow cover isn't very thick (just a couple of inches on top of road) a thin tire will cut through it better to get to the road.
There is likely ice under that snow so you need studded tires like these:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ca/en/schwalbe-marathon-w...
Note they come in various widths: down to 35mm (commuting road bike size) to 2 inches (MTB).
I would take these in the 40mm width over the other sizes for commuting in the snow.
If the snow cover isn't very thick (just a couple of inches on top of road) a thin tire will cut through it better to get to the road.
There is likely ice under that snow so you need studded tires like these:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ca/en/schwalbe-marathon-w...
Note they come in various widths: down to 35mm (commuting road bike size) to 2 inches (MTB).
I would take these in the 40mm width over the other sizes for commuting in the snow.
> I guess when the Valencian people start to see how much fun cycling ones life makes, Valencia will become the cycling capital of the world soon enough.
Beijing and Amsterdam can probably make a better claim to that title. Valencia is on the right track though and I hope their project succeeds and will last.
Beijing and Amsterdam can probably make a better claim to that title. Valencia is on the right track though and I hope their project succeeds and will last.
Or Copenhagen where 62 percent bike to work, 21 percent take metro, bus or train, 8 percent walk, and only 9 percent drive a car to work.
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Just chiming in to say Valencia is LOVELY!!!! Such a fantastic, cheap, beautiful, beachy place to be.
Is it someplace you'd recommend living for a few months? From the US, always looking for new, interesting places to work remote from.
Absolutely. It's a beautiful place and lots of very friendly people. Another place that you probably wouldn't catch on to from abroad is Croatia, the coast there is a great and still relatively cheap place to set up for a couple of months - or years, it tends to stick.
Thank you!
Berlin is a very bad place for cyclists right now.
The governing SPD is a car maker party, always was and always will be.
Working in Wedding near my work where the SPD governed since forever there is a bicycle lane on the pavement but unmarked for a decade with countless run ins with pedestrians.
After doing nothing for 50 years there was a referendum and the SPD did a 180 and painted themselves as a cyclist party.
Some - funny - images of the bike situation in Berlin
http://www.tagesspiegel.de/mediacenter/fotostrecken/berlin/g...
The governing SPD is a car maker party, always was and always will be.
Working in Wedding near my work where the SPD governed since forever there is a bicycle lane on the pavement but unmarked for a decade with countless run ins with pedestrians.
After doing nothing for 50 years there was a referendum and the SPD did a 180 and painted themselves as a cyclist party.
Some - funny - images of the bike situation in Berlin
http://www.tagesspiegel.de/mediacenter/fotostrecken/berlin/g...
I’m curious if you have seen more about the plans the article discusses? Talk of proper physical segregation of bike traffic using bollards sounds very nice. Copenhagen’s concrete curb separating bike lanes from car lanes is the gold standard I hope to see more places adopt.
Copenhagen is a dream, whenever I'm there I admire the bicycle infrastructure.
Berlin often cites Copenhagen for their plans, but call me a pessimist, as this would mean taking away streets from cars, I can't see a lot of this happening. It was mostly to get the SPD voted into power.
Berlin often cites Copenhagen for their plans, but call me a pessimist, as this would mean taking away streets from cars, I can't see a lot of this happening. It was mostly to get the SPD voted into power.
The public transport in Berlin (I've been in Mitte only though) is amazing compared to Amsterdam. Far easier to get around to the locations, clean communication (simple German), and you don't need a stupid RFID/NFC card. Only thing I disliked was the heroin junkies at some places.
And, well the traffic lights for pedestrians go from green to red like poof while in The Netherlands they will blink green before going to red. Germany should adopt that system from us, it informs pedestrians about their situation.
And, well the traffic lights for pedestrians go from green to red like poof while in The Netherlands they will blink green before going to red. Germany should adopt that system from us, it informs pedestrians about their situation.
I agree with the green lights, or we should use a countdown as some countries do.
My biggest gripe with pedestrian green lights is how short they show green here in Berlin. Might be ok for younger folks, definitely a huge pain for older people.
My biggest gripe with pedestrian green lights is how short they show green here in Berlin. Might be ok for younger folks, definitely a huge pain for older people.
Yep, we got those in Amsterdam as well in some locations (not everywhere), but one problem is that people start walking early. So they made them hide the number at 5. I also like it cause it gives the pedestrian info on how much they're going to lag behind on their walk, or allows them to take an alternative route.
In Amsterdam though, the pedestrian isn't king; its the cyclist. And they ignore all kind of traffic rules such as zebras. Absolutely horrible. I see people here and there cheer about how Amsterdam is cyclist friendly, but the pedestrians are a victim of their popularity and rude behavior.
Zebras are just one example. Another is people apping on their bicycle (youth especially), and cyclists driving on the wrong side of the road because else they need to use two traffic lights instead of one. Heck, I admit I even do it myself at times...
I saw a very nice traffic light in Amersfoort the other day: the pedestrian was a girl. I like diversity like that.
As for Berlin, did also notice the green traffic lights weren't on long, and my partner's 7 months in so did cause some trouble sometimes. So not only a disadvantage for the elder. Also for young kids, the disabled, and various other minority groups such as pregnancy.
To end on a positive note, I like how in Germany the traffic light becomes red + orange before it becomes green. Maybe adds to complexity but it wakes people up as well.
In Amsterdam though, the pedestrian isn't king; its the cyclist. And they ignore all kind of traffic rules such as zebras. Absolutely horrible. I see people here and there cheer about how Amsterdam is cyclist friendly, but the pedestrians are a victim of their popularity and rude behavior.
Zebras are just one example. Another is people apping on their bicycle (youth especially), and cyclists driving on the wrong side of the road because else they need to use two traffic lights instead of one. Heck, I admit I even do it myself at times...
I saw a very nice traffic light in Amersfoort the other day: the pedestrian was a girl. I like diversity like that.
As for Berlin, did also notice the green traffic lights weren't on long, and my partner's 7 months in so did cause some trouble sometimes. So not only a disadvantage for the elder. Also for young kids, the disabled, and various other minority groups such as pregnancy.
To end on a positive note, I like how in Germany the traffic light becomes red + orange before it becomes green. Maybe adds to complexity but it wakes people up as well.
Half the drivers in wedding think they're acting in Tokyo drift. You can quite safely take back roads however to get anywhere in Berlin.
A lot of streets in the old-east are cobblestone :-(
That's why i ride mountain bike with slicks in Berlin. Not the most comfortable on the cobbles but it's workable.
I had to stop biking to work (40 min each way) because I realized that I will have an accident if I continue, and I cannot afford the downtime.
It's crazy to think: you design a city for people, rather than cars, and the city becomes more livable.
Many European cities are a bit lucky in that regard, they are much older than US or Australian cities. The European cities are built on top of plans that were made for pedestrians and horse carriages, with city walls and small streets.
Muenster, for example, has a beautiful bike circle around the inner city because that's where the city walls used to be. US and Australian cities are much younger and don't have such 'restraints' to work with, so they become car heavy automatically.
Muenster, for example, has a beautiful bike circle around the inner city because that's where the city walls used to be. US and Australian cities are much younger and don't have such 'restraints' to work with, so they become car heavy automatically.
That makes no sense... US cities are super lucky to have such wide streets.
If they WANTED to they could easily make dedicated bus and bike lanes that are safe.
It easy they have so much space. European cities have to almost ban cars, to make room for bikes...
This is a political issue, where Americans choose not to do something.
If they WANTED to they could easily make dedicated bus and bike lanes that are safe.
It easy they have so much space. European cities have to almost ban cars, to make room for bikes...
This is a political issue, where Americans choose not to do something.
> That makes no sense... US cities are super lucky to have such wide streets.
Unless you're a pedestrian that wants to cross those wide streets. My stays in Salt Lake City are sometimes harrowing.
Unless you're a pedestrian that wants to cross those wide streets. My stays in Salt Lake City are sometimes harrowing.
Giving cars preferential treatment is a political choice.
You can choose to use your streets differently. I see wide streets in SF that could have been closed and turned into pedestrian only streets.
Union comes to mind, there are shops and restaurants on both sides, close it to traffic and you have nice shopping street.
You can choose to use your streets differently. I see wide streets in SF that could have been closed and turned into pedestrian only streets.
Union comes to mind, there are shops and restaurants on both sides, close it to traffic and you have nice shopping street.
The US has plenty of space for bikes and pedestrians, but being a cyclist or pedestrian makes less sense there because the cities are so spread out. All the space taken up by those highways and parking lots mean that the places people actually want to go to are much further apart.
People who vote in municipal elections despise anything that looks like density. If it weren’t for freeways and parking lots, there would still be massive lawns and open spaces dotted with sparsely packed low rise and mostly single family buildings.
Parking contributes, but it’s mostly that American towns have at most a few blocks where European-level density (3-6 story buildings directly adjacent to each other) is permitted.
Good luck prying the detached house with a backyard out of the typical American family’s hands. Good luck getting them to consent to a multi family structure next door.
Parking contributes, but it’s mostly that American towns have at most a few blocks where European-level density (3-6 story buildings directly adjacent to each other) is permitted.
Good luck prying the detached house with a backyard out of the typical American family’s hands. Good luck getting them to consent to a multi family structure next door.
One nice example of a city that did not have that but where things worked out wonderfully is Helsinki, there is a bike path through a large chunk of the city on what used to be a railroad. It's totally out of the ordinary traffic recessed in the ground so out of the wind (not unimportant that far North).
But one other example of an entire country not being designed for bikes post WWII is the Netherlands. It took a lot of change to make it is what it is, today. I think the moral of the story is that that change was explicit, and wasn't just happenstance. In visiting the Netherlands, you would think all that bike infrastructure was obviously just always there.
NL has historically had bikes in large numbers since bicycles were a thing.
If there was one thing the Dutch were pissed off about very long until after the war it was that the Germans took all the bicycles (or at least large numbers of them) to toss them in the smelt for their weapons factories.
When I was a kid - not all that long ago, say 1971 - German tourists were routinely told that if they wanted to get directions they first had to return some bikes... Since then the sentiment has fortunately changed a lot but there definitely were tons of bicycles here prior to WWII.
Even the Dutch version of the road-side assistance was originally called the 'Algemene Nederlandse Wielrijders Bond', which is as much as the Dutch bicycling association. They were instrumental in marking the roads and providing help for stranded cyclists. Over time they morphed into the more car centric entity of today.
If there was one thing the Dutch were pissed off about very long until after the war it was that the Germans took all the bicycles (or at least large numbers of them) to toss them in the smelt for their weapons factories.
When I was a kid - not all that long ago, say 1971 - German tourists were routinely told that if they wanted to get directions they first had to return some bikes... Since then the sentiment has fortunately changed a lot but there definitely were tons of bicycles here prior to WWII.
Even the Dutch version of the road-side assistance was originally called the 'Algemene Nederlandse Wielrijders Bond', which is as much as the Dutch bicycling association. They were instrumental in marking the roads and providing help for stranded cyclists. Over time they morphed into the more car centric entity of today.
You can pry my 8 lane roads and acres of parking lots surrounding a mall full of chain stores from my cold, dead hands /s
No one in history has designed a city for cars. People driving cars over other people perhaps, but for a subset of people regardless.
AI is nowhere near the level of needing space.
AI is nowhere near the level of needing space.
Berlin is, in my experience, an incredibly walkable city. Get a U-Bahn pass, and you can go almost anywhere in an hour; with their double ring and relatively dense stops, and Prussian train, and even bus scheduling, it's a breeze. Especially compared to the shitshow in American cities.
The U-Bahn is good but many of the lines are quite old and the connections often too sparse, specially compared to other european capitals like Paris or Madrid. There are often very close areas that take surprisingly long to travel between without a bike. I always find traveling between northern Neukölln to the middle of Friedrischain somewhat annoying unless you are very close the ring or just grab the bike and cut through Gorli. There are lots of examples like that.
Plus I find the U-Bahn rather expensive (esp. considering how little investment it seems to get) with very few buying options (only bulk-ticket is 4 rides which saves you very little) and the ticket machines seem to be broken half of the time and the ones that work are slow as hell (takes like 3 minutes to print the damn tickets).
The only plus I see (e.g. compared to Madrid) is that the stations are not very deep underground and often over the ground so it helps people that are mildly claustrophobic.
Plus I find the U-Bahn rather expensive (esp. considering how little investment it seems to get) with very few buying options (only bulk-ticket is 4 rides which saves you very little) and the ticket machines seem to be broken half of the time and the ones that work are slow as hell (takes like 3 minutes to print the damn tickets).
The only plus I see (e.g. compared to Madrid) is that the stations are not very deep underground and often over the ground so it helps people that are mildly claustrophobic.
I'm coming from Boston, and wilder areas where mass transit is atrocious if available, so Berlin is amazing. My other experiences in Paris or Amsterdam are inferior to Berlin.
Cyclists need to be trained as well.
I live in Berlin and too many times cyclists almost run me over and didn't even acknowledged the fact, just flipped the bird at me.
I have never been in a dangerous situation with cars, just with cyclists.
I live in Berlin and too many times cyclists almost run me over and didn't even acknowledged the fact, just flipped the bird at me.
I have never been in a dangerous situation with cars, just with cyclists.
I hate when cyclists don't yield to people going in or out of a tram or a bus. They mostly ring at you when you cross the bike lane from bus stop to the bus. Cars would stop in the same situation as this is sanctified. It happens from all the places next to Hauptbahnhof and it infuriates me, because there are far more passengers than cyclists. I know that is because cyclists want to maintain inertia, but it's just rude.
Hmm...would you simply walk across the busy street in front of the Haubptbahnhof and expect the cars to stop for you?
Or would you take the overpass, or wait at the traffic light?
Definitely someone is being rude in the scenario, I don't think it is the cyclists. (And no, you are not allowed to cross a street just because a bus stopped).
Or would you take the overpass, or wait at the traffic light?
Definitely someone is being rude in the scenario, I don't think it is the cyclists. (And no, you are not allowed to cross a street just because a bus stopped).
The bike lanes are often on the sidewalk, right where bus passengers exit. A stopped Tram legally requires the traffic in the lane to its right to stop.
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similarly i have almost crashed a couple of times because of pedestrians carelessly walking onto the bike lane (when getting out of their car for example). One time a guy walking next to the bike lane suddenly threw his arm up into my face as i passed (he was going in my direction, so couldn't see me, but was gesticulating widely with this friends).
So it goes both ways...
While yes, of course people need training to be safe, if you hit someone with a bike you have to extremely unlucky to cause a life threatening injury. If you hit them with a car, you only have to be doing 30 mph for it to be 50:50 lethal.
I’ve only seen a relative handful of cyclists in the last few months in Berlin, but my experience in Cambridge has been that on the road, cyclists and drivers are about equal skill; but on cycle paths, you find the idiots who cycle 2-abreast at night with no lights or high-viz on a section with no path lighing, who somehow think it’s appropriate to complain that I did have lights (if I hadn’t had lights, we would’ve collided at about 30 mph, and I was the only one with a helmet).
I’ve only seen a relative handful of cyclists in the last few months in Berlin, but my experience in Cambridge has been that on the road, cyclists and drivers are about equal skill; but on cycle paths, you find the idiots who cycle 2-abreast at night with no lights or high-viz on a section with no path lighing, who somehow think it’s appropriate to complain that I did have lights (if I hadn’t had lights, we would’ve collided at about 30 mph, and I was the only one with a helmet).
> Cyclists need to be trained as well.
You can avoid the majority of the unsafe situations if you have the right infrastructure. Meaning: a simple line on the street or some line on the pedestrian path is really poor safety wise.
A bike line should be on its own. Not close to parked cars, not a part of the pedestrian path. Further, it should be super visible (always painted red in the Netherlands). So many countries there's either no separation or it's just some sign.
Similar for crossings. There's loads of video's explaining the Dutch system. Whenever I go abroad I find most bicycle initiatives unsafe and poorly thought out.
Plus all of this can usually be done without actually needing additional space.
You can avoid the majority of the unsafe situations if you have the right infrastructure. Meaning: a simple line on the street or some line on the pedestrian path is really poor safety wise.
A bike line should be on its own. Not close to parked cars, not a part of the pedestrian path. Further, it should be super visible (always painted red in the Netherlands). So many countries there's either no separation or it's just some sign.
Similar for crossings. There's loads of video's explaining the Dutch system. Whenever I go abroad I find most bicycle initiatives unsafe and poorly thought out.
Plus all of this can usually be done without actually needing additional space.
Cyclists are trained ... in the art of dodging hapless pedestrians who aren't aware what the red bricks and white lines (and funny little symbol of triangles and circles!) on the ground are supposed to signify.
At least for me, I got good enough at dodging pedestrians to just do it all the time. It's easier for everyone. I'm out of your way in a quarter of a second, and you're out of mine. Situational awareness is of course key here.
Only accident I got in during my two years in Germany was when a car pulled into the bike path to turn left right in front of me and sat there mugging me while I plowed into their front fender sideways.
At least for me, I got good enough at dodging pedestrians to just do it all the time. It's easier for everyone. I'm out of your way in a quarter of a second, and you're out of mine. Situational awareness is of course key here.
Only accident I got in during my two years in Germany was when a car pulled into the bike path to turn left right in front of me and sat there mugging me while I plowed into their front fender sideways.
Meanwhile, in São Paulo, the mayor is trying very hard to remove bike lanes already built, and are passing laws that make it a lot harder to build new ones.
Why on earth? An aunt who used to live there tells me the air pollution is quite bad -- one would think reducing emissions by encouraging cycling would be a priority.
The previous mayor was from PT, a kinda left-wing party that a good part of the middle class loves to hate (there are a few good reasons, but the hate at this point is insane), so the actual mayor won with promises to revert the policies.
Combine that with the fact that São Paulo is a city where people seems to love cars more than their relatives and have an upper class that oppose bike lanes in front of their houses because "people that ride bikes aren't the kind of people that we want in our neighborhood" and you have a recipe for disaster.
These people (the upper class, not the middle) are also against subway expansion because it would be easier for people from the poorer regions of the city to come to their neighborhoods.
It's a mix of car loving, a party hate and prejudice that makes São Paulo a complete chaotic city when we're talking about transport.
I love São Paulo, have a lot of friends there, but almost everything that is being done right now seems to be in the opposition of the public interest.
Combine that with the fact that São Paulo is a city where people seems to love cars more than their relatives and have an upper class that oppose bike lanes in front of their houses because "people that ride bikes aren't the kind of people that we want in our neighborhood" and you have a recipe for disaster.
These people (the upper class, not the middle) are also against subway expansion because it would be easier for people from the poorer regions of the city to come to their neighborhoods.
It's a mix of car loving, a party hate and prejudice that makes São Paulo a complete chaotic city when we're talking about transport.
I love São Paulo, have a lot of friends there, but almost everything that is being done right now seems to be in the opposition of the public interest.
Interesting -- much as I have a chip on my shoulder about spandex cyclists who look down on bike commuters like me, maybe they have a valuable role to play. If you can't sell rich people on cycling as an exclusive, upscale activity, they're going to fight against it and win. The next time some twit blows through a stop sign and cuts me off while clipped into his $6500 bike, I'll have to remind myself of this conversation. I'd rather have rich jerks on bicycles than rich jerks in hummers.
> These people (the upper class, not the middle) are also against subway expansion because it would be easier for people from the poorer regions of the city to come to their neighborhoods
Guess why the D.C. Metro doesn’t go to Georgetown and the Phoenix light rail doesn’t go to Scottsdale?
Guess why the D.C. Metro doesn’t go to Georgetown and the Phoenix light rail doesn’t go to Scottsdale?
Those bike lanes were put in place by the previous mayor and the new mayor is trying to undo things the previous mayor did. Basically, stupid politics.
(To be fair, the bike lanes weren't perfect but they should have been improved instead of removed)
(To be fair, the bike lanes weren't perfect but they should have been improved instead of removed)
While it would be great to see Berlin copy the UK cycling capital — Cambridge is brilliant in that regard — Berlin isn’t particularly bad. I’m looking for work in Berlin at the moment, and Berlin is less busy per square meter than any UK city I’ve been to (other than Ely, which shouldn’t count as a city).
Berlin traffic isn’t perfect, but on the other hand it is also more lawful than UK traffic, and less intimidating than CA traffic.
Berlin traffic isn’t perfect, but on the other hand it is also more lawful than UK traffic, and less intimidating than CA traffic.
The cities mentioned as being great for cyclists are Copenhagen and Amersterdam, and now Berlin is trying.
What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female [0].
In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't have to worry about them getting too cold or hot or wet. You can easily transport 3 children in the back of a car without difficulty (try doing that on a bicycle). The car can easily carry all the diapers and baby food you need for an outing as well as changes of clothing for inevitable accidents kids make.
Bikes are awesome for adults without children, cars seem better for those with children, especially young children.
I wonder if this push to bike friendliness is driven in part by the changing demographics of more adults without children.
0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...
What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female [0].
In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't have to worry about them getting too cold or hot or wet. You can easily transport 3 children in the back of a car without difficulty (try doing that on a bicycle). The car can easily carry all the diapers and baby food you need for an outing as well as changes of clothing for inevitable accidents kids make.
Bikes are awesome for adults without children, cars seem better for those with children, especially young children.
I wonder if this push to bike friendliness is driven in part by the changing demographics of more adults without children.
0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...
> When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles.
Cars are almost always more convenient for most people, with or without children.
Cars are almost always more convenient for most people, with or without children.
For what it's worth, I just had a kid and am contemplating whether I want to keep living in a cycling-hostile place. I would like my kid to be able to ride a bike without dying.
If that were the case you'd expect that families with children in those cities wouldn't be bike users. In Amsterdam at least they very much were. I lived next to a primary school where 90+% of parents would show up on bikes to pick up their kids. You can easily transport 3 kids in a bakfiets
That's not statistically valid reasoning. If biking vs driving makes some people not have kids, but not everyone, then in a city where driving is prohibitively expensive you'd still expect most parents to be on a bike. That's because the others didn't switch to cars, they didn't have kids, or they moved. I don't know what riding with one of those bike chariots is like, but being confined to a bike already sucks, I assume dragging a kid around behind you is even worse.
You're assuming the cycling is causing people to have less children. It would be nice to provide some statistically valid sources to explain why you think that's so.
I live in the Netherlands and your assumption is pretty strange one. Mostly because it's not one or the other. You can do loads of things by bike while also having a car. Further, especially now with electric bikes you can transport an insane amount of children via a bike easily. Meaning: I see people transporting 5 or 6 children by bike (PS: this is on some fixed schedule, so not a one off, it is around the same time Mon-Fri).
A bike is often more convenient than a car.
I live in the Netherlands and your assumption is pretty strange one. Mostly because it's not one or the other. You can do loads of things by bike while also having a car. Further, especially now with electric bikes you can transport an insane amount of children via a bike easily. Meaning: I see people transporting 5 or 6 children by bike (PS: this is on some fixed schedule, so not a one off, it is around the same time Mon-Fri).
A bike is often more convenient than a car.
>You're assuming the cycling is causing people to have less children. It would be nice to provide some statistically valid sources to explain why you think that's so.
No, I'm providing alternate explanations for an observation that the previous poster claims shows that cycling does not cause people to have less children. I don't need to prove it happens, just show it's possible. Of course the "burden of proof" will always be assumed to fall on me because I disagree with popular opinion.
I hope you enjoy the Netherlands. I never want to live in the Netherlands, and I'm sick and tired of people trying to turn the places I like into the Netherlands.
Biking sucks. I do not want to ride a bike. Take your self-righteous crap and fuck off.
No, I'm providing alternate explanations for an observation that the previous poster claims shows that cycling does not cause people to have less children. I don't need to prove it happens, just show it's possible. Of course the "burden of proof" will always be assumed to fall on me because I disagree with popular opinion.
I hope you enjoy the Netherlands. I never want to live in the Netherlands, and I'm sick and tired of people trying to turn the places I like into the Netherlands.
Biking sucks. I do not want to ride a bike. Take your self-righteous crap and fuck off.
I have family in Germany and they have two young children. They own a car but they only use it occasionally for trips. Their daily commute involves one of the parents transporting children to or from kindergarten using a bicycle trailer that both children can sit in. They do this year round and it works out fine. It works out a lot better, in fact, because cycling is much faster than sitting in rush hour traffic.
Those trailers are very common in The Netherlands! Weather doesn’t play that much of a role, from what I know, neither does the fertility rate as cycling has been popular here when it used to be much higher, decades ago.
It is very much a cultural thing in my experience. Nearly all children go to primary and high school on their bicycles, by themselves, although the trips for high schoolers are often < 8 km I would guess.
I think that touches on why it might not be as popular in other countries, as other countries might not be as flat or lack city planning that takes cyclists into account, e.g. dedicated bike lanes.
It’s also an excellent choice for a country of our size that has limited space, as bicycles make much better use of it than cars.
It is very much a cultural thing in my experience. Nearly all children go to primary and high school on their bicycles, by themselves, although the trips for high schoolers are often < 8 km I would guess.
I think that touches on why it might not be as popular in other countries, as other countries might not be as flat or lack city planning that takes cyclists into account, e.g. dedicated bike lanes.
It’s also an excellent choice for a country of our size that has limited space, as bicycles make much better use of it than cars.
This is how I plan on transporting my two kids by bicycle when they're a bit older (electric cargo bike): https://yubabikes.com/
Disclaimer: no affiliation/promotion/etc
Disclaimer: no affiliation/promotion/etc
Try doing the same during the winter in the northeast or central US
I live in Chicago and my family and our neighbors transport our children to school/stores/activities via bikes or feet. When the snow gets real bad we switch to sleds.
Anecdotally from observing my kids school I’d say that yuba bike linked is very popular. As are the Dutch bikes with the big front thing for hauling kids.
That of course relies on living in a place with infrastructure that enables it. Which is what Berlin is trying to build...
Anecdotally from observing my kids school I’d say that yuba bike linked is very popular. As are the Dutch bikes with the big front thing for hauling kids.
That of course relies on living in a place with infrastructure that enables it. Which is what Berlin is trying to build...
you mean a cargo bike not very safe for the kids though
This thing:
https://jclindbikes.com/cargo-bikes/nihola-family/
Not sure why it would be any more/less safe for kids.
https://jclindbikes.com/cargo-bikes/nihola-family/
Not sure why it would be any more/less safe for kids.
Plenty of people in northern Scandinavia cycle throughout the winter. With the right clothing and equipment, the weather isn't a particular problem. Many of the highest-rated cities on the Copenhagenize Index of cycle-friendly cities are far north. The highest-rated city in the US is Minneapolis. Malmö, Helsinki and Montréal also make the top 20.
http://copenhagenize.eu/index/
People from non-cycling cultures tend to badly under-estimate the quality of utility cycling equipment and over-estimate the impact of weather on a well-equipped rider.
Schwalbe Marathon Winter tires have hundreds of steel spikes and will grip securely even on black ice. SKS Longboard fenders provide a huge amount of protection from rain, spray and road grime. Lobster mittens keep your hands toasty warm in arctic conditions, while still allowing you to operate the brake and gear levers. Epicyclic gearhubs provide up to 14 gear ratios in a completely enclosed and practically maintenance-free package. Good LED bicycle lights are stunningly bright, rivalling the performance of car headlamps. A long john or Christiania cargo bike will comfortably carry two children, a week's worth of groceries or even a washing machine; with electric assist, these bikes are viable even in very hilly areas.
http://copenhagenize.eu/index/
People from non-cycling cultures tend to badly under-estimate the quality of utility cycling equipment and over-estimate the impact of weather on a well-equipped rider.
Schwalbe Marathon Winter tires have hundreds of steel spikes and will grip securely even on black ice. SKS Longboard fenders provide a huge amount of protection from rain, spray and road grime. Lobster mittens keep your hands toasty warm in arctic conditions, while still allowing you to operate the brake and gear levers. Epicyclic gearhubs provide up to 14 gear ratios in a completely enclosed and practically maintenance-free package. Good LED bicycle lights are stunningly bright, rivalling the performance of car headlamps. A long john or Christiania cargo bike will comfortably carry two children, a week's worth of groceries or even a washing machine; with electric assist, these bikes are viable even in very hilly areas.
As an aside, many of the LED bike headlamps I have seen (just like LED car headlamps and most LED hiking/camping lights) are unpleasant and a safety hazard. They are very bright in the blue part of the spectrum, which means they cause severely distracting/blinding glare for anyone else on the road, and knock out people's night vision. Personally I think they should be heavily regulated and forced to be less bright and maybe larger or more diffuse, with a more night-appropriate spectral power distribution.
I have a similar bike in Boston with two kids. It's not that bad; snowpants, good gloves, and adult wind breakers thrown around them gets you pretty far. The hardest part was getting the 2yo to wear a neck warmer or face mask when it was in the 20s. I imagine a trailer would be warmer and safer on ice. The long tail is just nicer overall.
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I have a 1.5 year old child, and I must disagree. Car-centric places are horrible with a child (or really anyone who isn’t a healthy ~20–65 year old adult who can afford a car). To get anywhere you need to pack all your stuff into a car, get the child in and out of a carseat, unpark and park, walk around in a big parking lot, etc. Every trip has huge overhead. It gets even worse when there are multiple kids involved.
Living in a walkable neighborhood with access to transit is so much nicer. I just pick the kid up in my arms and go out the door, and many destinations are a few minutes walk, all of which is time spent actively moving and being part of the outside world. In a couple years, if I need to drop him off somewhere within bike distance (but far enough away that walking is less practical), it would be great to use a child seat or little cart attached to a bike.
It’s going to be an even bigger difference when the kid is older, and can walk around and take transit and engage with the city by himself, instead of being completely isolated and dependent and needing to be chauffeured and chaperoned by an adult on every trip.
Living in a walkable neighborhood with access to transit is so much nicer. I just pick the kid up in my arms and go out the door, and many destinations are a few minutes walk, all of which is time spent actively moving and being part of the outside world. In a couple years, if I need to drop him off somewhere within bike distance (but far enough away that walking is less practical), it would be great to use a child seat or little cart attached to a bike.
It’s going to be an even bigger difference when the kid is older, and can walk around and take transit and engage with the city by himself, instead of being completely isolated and dependent and needing to be chauffeured and chaperoned by an adult on every trip.
> It’s going to be an even bigger difference when the kid is older, and can walk around and take transit and engage with the city by himself, instead of being completely isolated and dependent and needing to be chauffeured and chaperoned by an adult on every trip.
This. I don't think most Americans realise how detrimental and significant this often-overlooked aspect of average middle American suburban life is.
This. I don't think most Americans realise how detrimental and significant this often-overlooked aspect of average middle American suburban life is.
Walking down an English high street with an intrepid 1 year old explorer was an eye opener for me.
(Translation: a high street is a main street in an English town. They're usually car-free.)
Every time my son bolted, I had a full 30 seconds of slack before having to chase him down because there was no risk of him being squished under a tire.
(Translation: a high street is a main street in an English town. They're usually car-free.)
Every time my son bolted, I had a full 30 seconds of slack before having to chase him down because there was no risk of him being squished under a tire.
Anyone who lived in Japan knows about “mamachari” bikes, and a diminutive young mother with two kids and groceries on her bike. Not to mention all the senior citizens who ride everywhere as well. Electric-assist bikes, being able to ride on sidewalks or dedicated lanes, and safe parking help make it possible.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RLXnCu-KMdY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RLXnCu-KMdY
Poor example though. There is plenty of car traffic in Japan about everywhere, and parking yout bike is not free at all. And cyclists are super dangerous here, not respecting any rule on the road. I was almost hit by bikes going in the wrong direction several times. And mamachari riders are no exception. they speed up on the sidewalks without any regard for pedestrians.
Sounds like you've never been there.
I spent some time right outside Amsterdam (in Haarlem), and you can easily get a couple kids and a baby on a bike(in a bakfiets). You can easily carry all the diapers and baby feed you need for an outing in a stroller which is all you really need because nearly everything you could want is within walking distance.
-had 2 kids at the time(nearly 3 and 6 months), as well as cousins in town(same age) that we took on the bike as well, not that we used it that much, mostly to go out to another town like Zaanvoort on the coast (11 km away) or to the train station if we were going somewhere further.
Also, every single kid of school age got themselves to school by bike, so the whole pick up/drop up culture of North America wasn't happening.
-had 2 kids at the time(nearly 3 and 6 months), as well as cousins in town(same age) that we took on the bike as well, not that we used it that much, mostly to go out to another town like Zaanvoort on the coast (11 km away) or to the train station if we were going somewhere further.
Also, every single kid of school age got themselves to school by bike, so the whole pick up/drop up culture of North America wasn't happening.
Agreed. Berlin is a very child-friendly city, and the biking is part of it. It is very common for parents to carry their kids in the bike. And heavy traffic makes the city less child-safe, not more.
It's an almost daily occurrence to see a parent riding their bike full of kids in Leiden or Amsterdam.
As a Dutchie with no kids I must kindly disagree with you. Go to any Dutch city and you will see tons of parents riding on bikes with their kids. It's common to see 1 adult and 2 kids on the same bike.
Go to any city thats not flat and you will soon find bikes to be unpractical for about everything.
You can get an e-bike a lot cheaper than a car.
That's where efficient and reliable public transit comes in, as well as living near a denser area.
That's why we've got these:
https://www.christianiabikes.com/
https://www.babboe.nl/
They're so common that during the morning rush hour it seems like every other bike is a 'bakfiets'. They're a direct descendant of the old cargo delivery bikes from the previous century. There are two wheeled versions as well and then there are trailers to put behind normal bikes (though I don't like those much, because cars tend to overlook them due to their height).
https://www.christianiabikes.com/
https://www.babboe.nl/
They're so common that during the morning rush hour it seems like every other bike is a 'bakfiets'. They're a direct descendant of the old cargo delivery bikes from the previous century. There are two wheeled versions as well and then there are trailers to put behind normal bikes (though I don't like those much, because cars tend to overlook them due to their height).
If people with children in their cars made up a majority of traffic that would be a good argument. Most trips are made solo though. Replacing at least some of those trips with cycling is better for everybody: the cyclists health, the environment, the children playing on the streets.
And for drivers! Less cars on the road makes it better for those who are left.
You'll see this kind of arrangement all over Amsterdam and Copenhagen. Hell, even here in the SF Bay area I see (almost daily) a couple of parents on my bike commute route riding home with bicycles with those long racks on the back that can hold 2-3 kids, with a helmet dangling from the rack as they've obviously just completed the school run.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/91/7c/7a/917c7a6c31acf962cb21...
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/91/7c/7a/917c7a6c31acf962cb21...
If you have >2 children, chances are the oldest can ride his/her own bicycle (especially if the infrastructure provides lots of safety)
Also, see https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/tag/children/
Also, see https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/tag/children/
I take it you've never been any significant amount of time in Copenhagen. There a bicycles for transporting children that are made to transport up to two children, usually up to 3-4 years old, after that they can cycle themselves so I've never heard about it being an issue because the eldest will usually be old enough to cycle.
edit: I guess you could increase that to 3 children if you attach a bike trailer, but those aren't very popular here.
edit: I guess you could increase that to 3 children if you attach a bike trailer, but those aren't very popular here.
> You can easily transport 3 children in the back of a car without difficulty (try doing that on a bicycle).
I see this everyday in Copenhagen:
https://christianiacykel12.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/image...
I see this everyday in Copenhagen:
https://christianiacykel12.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/image...
I did about 5000km in Berlin traffic by bike in the last 2 1/2 years and i can't count how often car drivers would have hit me without me paying close attention and having good breaks. At least every second day someone will cut into the bike lane while turning, not pay enough attention when turning right on crossings or underestimate speeds. Granted, i am not moving slow, and i drive a car myself and know that it is sometimes really hard to see bikes coming from everywhere so i accept these risks as normal, but improvements to the infrastructure would be awesome, since in many places it really is not great or outright dangerous. I recently visited Copenhagen and the bike infrastructure was amazing to see, however the city is 1/5th of Berlins size and there just is not a lot of car traffic.
There are plans for a "Radschnellweg" across the Ruhrgebiet (RS1, https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radschnellweg#Nordrhein-Westfa... )
Looks like it will take a while longer than anticipated, however.
Looks like it will take a while longer than anticipated, however.
I have followed the debate for a while and am familiar with the situation. I wouldn't be overly optimistic yet.
Until now there have been a lot of bold announcements and very little changes.
Some of the things in the article paint a picture much more rosy than reality: "Meanwhile, the city’s existing bike-lane network—already extensive, but not always well segregated from car traffic—will be more rigorously protected by bollards."
The fact is right now bike lanes are never segregated from car traffic in Berlin. There exist two kinds of bike ways in Berlin: Paintings on the street and cycleways on the pedestrian sidewalk. The bike lanes on the streets are often occupied by parking cars, and pedestrians usually walk on the other kind of cycleway like they don't exist.
Until now there have been a lot of bold announcements and very little changes.
Some of the things in the article paint a picture much more rosy than reality: "Meanwhile, the city’s existing bike-lane network—already extensive, but not always well segregated from car traffic—will be more rigorously protected by bollards."
The fact is right now bike lanes are never segregated from car traffic in Berlin. There exist two kinds of bike ways in Berlin: Paintings on the street and cycleways on the pedestrian sidewalk. The bike lanes on the streets are often occupied by parking cars, and pedestrians usually walk on the other kind of cycleway like they don't exist.
I would love to live in a biking city. It gives you a greater opportunity to live in community. A lot more freedom for the kids, old people, etc. Any chance any city in the USA to be become like that ?
I live in Fort Collins, Colorado. It’s supposedly the best bike city in the entire US. I STILL see people narrowly avoid accidents almost daily due to only about half of the roads having dedicated bike lanes and the insufficient size of the lanes that do exist. It’s really a disappointment given that title. I’m glad I have a car.
Edit: On a little research, apparently that’s a very outdated acendote. Good to know!
Edit: On a little research, apparently that’s a very outdated acendote. Good to know!
I went looking for details on the new bike plan and found this interesting article on how hard a time Berlin has had hiring transportation engineers to develop the plan: https://www.thelocal.de/20171215/over-a-dozen-engineers-urge...
related: Paris redesign for the Place de la Bastille, with a lot less roads. https://www.api-site.paris.fr/mairies/public/assets/2017%2F1...
Very good news. Other city should do the same... France is a nightmare for cyclists.
Are they planning a dockless bicycle hire system like the very convenient Mobike system in China?
woodpanel(5)
I hope they install a lot of showers...
Cycling doesn't need to be any more strenuous than walking. It keeps you much cooler than walking, because the higher speed creates a windchill effect if you're lightly dressed. People from non-cycling cultures tend to think that cycling is inherently hot and sweaty, but that's completely inaccurate. It's perfectly comfortable if you ride at your own pace rather than busting a gut in an effort to keep up with traffic.
Maybe if you're a good cyclist, but I can't cycle uphill as slowly as I can walk and still maintain good balance.
It's partly fitness, partly technique and partly equipment. If you're totally sedentary, you're probably going to sweat until you develop a base level of fitness. If your bike is badly over-geared, you're going to have to push hard just to keep the bike moving uphill. If you haven't learned to hold your gaze on a distant point, you overcorrect your steering inputs and your pedalling technique is extremely choppy, you're going to struggle with balance at low speed. If the going gets really steep, there's nothing wrong with just getting off and walking.
None of this is rocket science, it just takes a bit of experience. Half the battle is developing a culture in which cycling is treated as an ordinary mode of transport rather than a sport. In places with a very strong cycling culture like Amsterdam or Copenhagen, you see all sections of society on bicycles - ordinary people in ordinary clothes riding ordinary bicycles at an ordinary pace.
None of this is rocket science, it just takes a bit of experience. Half the battle is developing a culture in which cycling is treated as an ordinary mode of transport rather than a sport. In places with a very strong cycling culture like Amsterdam or Copenhagen, you see all sections of society on bicycles - ordinary people in ordinary clothes riding ordinary bicycles at an ordinary pace.
I am a fairly avid cyclist and I agree with you, especially the second part. Unfortunately I think well over half of the population in my country, the United States- regardless of political leaning- truly dislikes cyclists.
My personal opinion is that the car culture in the United States creates an environment where everyone is enforcing their own arbitrary set of rules on the road, and in most cases, cycling is very much against these rules(regardless of any legal or logical basis).
Reading any comments, as a cyclist, on almost any social media platform regarding cycling becomes disheartening to downright scary. It's as if there's not even a discussion to be had.
My personal opinion is that the car culture in the United States creates an environment where everyone is enforcing their own arbitrary set of rules on the road, and in most cases, cycling is very much against these rules(regardless of any legal or logical basis).
Reading any comments, as a cyclist, on almost any social media platform regarding cycling becomes disheartening to downright scary. It's as if there's not even a discussion to be had.
Stinking is actually a consequence of a sedentary lifestyle. With the right kind of cycling infrastructure, riding a bike in flat terrain is a low intensity exercise to which the body soon adapts. It can become quite relaxing and meditative.
Exemplary video of cycling in the netherlands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb0QjASuuqI
> Stinking is actually a consequence of a sedentary lifestyle.
any source for this extraordinary claim?
any source for this extraordinary claim?
I believe your parent is alluding to the fact that if you are regularly active & get exercise, biking at an easy pace on flat land in good weather won't even cause you to break a sweat, whereas if you sit on the couch all day it will. (Hopefully don't need a source for this)
I would certainly like a source. As far as I can see, the only way to sweat less over time would be to lose weight. A more-conditioned cyclist still does the same amount of work and thus produces the same amount of heat.
Source: from the Washington Post, "athletes tend to sweat sooner and more." https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/sweat-its-...
Source: from the Washington Post, "athletes tend to sweat sooner and more." https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/sweat-its-...
A more-conditioned cyclist can perform the same amount of work with a lower heart rate & respiration rate. I don't have a source handy, but personally observe that my perspiration rate is directly related to my heart rate, and as I train & improve I can keep my jacket on performing the same work, where I needed to strip layers before.
I've been bike commuting in Seattle for ten years and I don't sweat during my commute, except on my way home during the summer.
I'm not a sports scientist but from what I read about and my experience with doing exercise, it modifies your metabolism so that the intensity of exercise that causes sweating goes up.
Also somewhat a consequence of diet. I find I generally smell much better when I'm eating well.
Plus cars stink.
I don't know where you live, but most of the cities in northern Europe have less extreme climate (on both ends, hot and cold) than a large swath of the US. I live in the US and am extremely lucky that I don't sweat a lot for some reason, and am able to ride my bike to work without stinking up the joint. And I adjust my schedule a bit, so I get to work before it starts getting hot.
But our summers are certainly hotter than Copenhagen and Amsterdam. I didn't look up Berlin.
But our summers are certainly hotter than Copenhagen and Amsterdam. I didn't look up Berlin.
Seville in Spain is rated as one of the 20 most cycling-friendly cities in the world. Their climate is roughly comparable with much of the southern United States.
http://copenhagenize.eu/index/14_seville.html
http://copenhagenize.eu/index/14_seville.html
I started biking to work last summer and after a few weeks my sweat levels went way down to the point where I'd just change shirts and put on a bit more deodorant when I got to work and it was fine.
If you wear shirts that breathe a bit and use a pannier instead of a messenger bag it's not so bad. I use REI hiking shirts and leave the top two buttons undone to keep the air moving.
Coming home can be a bit worse because it could be >90 degrees but in the cool morning it's fine.
Fortunately we do have showers though. Some of my coworkers have 20+ mile bike rides into work and they really need them. Mine's only 3.5 miles.
If you wear shirts that breathe a bit and use a pannier instead of a messenger bag it's not so bad. I use REI hiking shirts and leave the top two buttons undone to keep the air moving.
Coming home can be a bit worse because it could be >90 degrees but in the cool morning it's fine.
Fortunately we do have showers though. Some of my coworkers have 20+ mile bike rides into work and they really need them. Mine's only 3.5 miles.
Normally temperatures in south Germany (Stuttgart, Munich) are between +10 and +25 Celsius in summer and between 0 and +10 in winter. The climate is mild and humid without strong winds. There are much fewer sunny days in comparison with US, so we certainly do not sweat while cycling :)
Antwerp also recently introduced a measure where only cars with a low amount of "exhaust gases" (can't really find the proper name as of writing this) are allowed in the city centre. I haven't been there since, but it's also something I truly admire going into the future.
I visited San Francisco last year and it was a true nightmare to get around in Mountain View by bike. I have never felt more unsafe on a bike in my entire life to be honest. I am driving on a bike without a biking lane next to cars that are going close to 100km/h. It's truly insane. Visiting other cities in the US as well have been awful from a cyclist's point of view compared to most of the European cities and cities from the Netherlands are amazing as well (something you don't hear very often from a Belgian).
So all in all, please just ban the car in most places in the city imo or do something like Antwerp that drives (pun intended) people towards electric cars faster.