Luxury hotels are being inundated with requests from self-described influencers(theatlantic.com)
theatlantic.com
Luxury hotels are being inundated with requests from self-described influencers
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/instagram-influencers-are-driving-luxury-hotels-crazy/562679/?single_page=true
277 comments
This is straight up Black Mirror (season 3, episode 1: Nosedive) Obviously the whole point of that episode was to imagine Instagram in its darkest future, but it's scary how much of it is becoming real, and separately with the roll-out of social credit scores in China. Scary stuff.
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Hansen: So in terms of quality, you could use a punch up right there. Ideally, that's up votes from quality people.
Lacie: Quality people?
Hansen: High fours. Impress those up-scale folks, you'll gain velocity on your arc and there's your boost.
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Hansen: So in terms of quality, you could use a punch up right there. Ideally, that's up votes from quality people.
Lacie: Quality people?
Hansen: High fours. Impress those up-scale folks, you'll gain velocity on your arc and there's your boost.
I guess I don't get creeped out about this because this is what happens already in life - but it's implicit and unacknowledged instead of explicit and acknowledged.
This same calculus happens at all levels: trying to be part of certain groups (Stanford graduate, YCombinator graduate etc...) , join certain clubs (Founders who have raised a Series A, Forbes 30 under 30), impress certain people (Investors, Board Members) etc... to get where you want. Just change the players depending on what you want out of life.
So if making it explicit makes you feel bad, then you probably feel bad about how things work already.
This same calculus happens at all levels: trying to be part of certain groups (Stanford graduate, YCombinator graduate etc...) , join certain clubs (Founders who have raised a Series A, Forbes 30 under 30), impress certain people (Investors, Board Members) etc... to get where you want. Just change the players depending on what you want out of life.
So if making it explicit makes you feel bad, then you probably feel bad about how things work already.
Ehh, sure, it is a more explicit manifestation of common existing dynamics. But it is also much more exaggerated and empty than the examples you are giving.
There isn't much substance/ understanding/signal/meaning in buying a ride on the coattails of a superficial instagram "influencer".
There isn't much substance/ understanding/signal/meaning in buying a ride on the coattails of a superficial instagram "influencer".
Is it more empty? I think it's easy to say something is empty when you're not the sort of person it's optimized to appeal to.
I just finished "Bad Blood", the book on Theranos. Given that it was a fraud, it was entirely empty. But it was designed to look substantial to Stanford deans and Valley VCs. Later the target shifted to other sorts of movers and shakers, including corporate titans and political bigwigs. They all got suckered, and some of them still don't know it.
I think Instagram influencers look shallow to me because their audience is people who value different things than I do. But I don't take that as a sign that I'm somehow better. Just that I have different weaknesses.
E.g., I spent years developing NeXT software because I drank the Jobs kool-aid. I didn't do that for hard-headed business reasons; I did it because the NeXT hardware and software was incredibly cool to young me. At the time, I would have smugly defended my choice as more rational than getting starry-eyed over a celebrity. In retrospect, I was wrong. I just fell for for something tuned for my weaknesses, just like we all do.
I just finished "Bad Blood", the book on Theranos. Given that it was a fraud, it was entirely empty. But it was designed to look substantial to Stanford deans and Valley VCs. Later the target shifted to other sorts of movers and shakers, including corporate titans and political bigwigs. They all got suckered, and some of them still don't know it.
I think Instagram influencers look shallow to me because their audience is people who value different things than I do. But I don't take that as a sign that I'm somehow better. Just that I have different weaknesses.
E.g., I spent years developing NeXT software because I drank the Jobs kool-aid. I didn't do that for hard-headed business reasons; I did it because the NeXT hardware and software was incredibly cool to young me. At the time, I would have smugly defended my choice as more rational than getting starry-eyed over a celebrity. In retrospect, I was wrong. I just fell for for something tuned for my weaknesses, just like we all do.
> E.g., I spent years developing NeXT software because I drank the Jobs kool-aid. I didn't do that for hard-headed business reasons; I did it because the NeXT hardware and software was incredibly cool to young me. At the time, I would have smugly defended my choice as more rational than getting starry-eyed over a celebrity. In retrospect, I was wrong. I just fell for for something tuned for my weaknesses, just like we all do.
This is actually a great example that I think supports my point. Sure, maybe you got caught up in some hype. But at least you were improving your software development skills, which is something useful.
What usefulness is accomplished or what meaning is found by getting starry eyed over Instagram fame? Maybe you could make an argument related to minor photography or artistic skills that they use to enhance their account. But it's not very substantial -- most Instagram influencers don't become highly skilled photographers in the process.
I understand people have different values. But they still have to defend them and the meaning the values supposedly carry.
This is actually a great example that I think supports my point. Sure, maybe you got caught up in some hype. But at least you were improving your software development skills, which is something useful.
What usefulness is accomplished or what meaning is found by getting starry eyed over Instagram fame? Maybe you could make an argument related to minor photography or artistic skills that they use to enhance their account. But it's not very substantial -- most Instagram influencers don't become highly skilled photographers in the process.
I understand people have different values. But they still have to defend them and the meaning the values supposedly carry.
I'm sorry, but it doesn't support your example. I would have been making software regardless. Instead I earned less and learned less applicable skills than I would have had I not been suckered by the Jobs reality distortion field. It was a significant harm to me, and it wasn't the last time I fell for the "cool" of a technology.
It's true that my particular weakness was related to an economically productive activity. But although I personally value production more than consumption, production isn't inherently superior; one without the other is just waste.
Steve Jobs is Steve Jobs because he was very good at manipulating both producers and consumers. The (modest) technical improvements of the iPhone over existing smartphones wouldn't have happened without the millions of people who bought the notion that a slicker device in slicker packaging with slicker ads was deeply better.
Instagram influencers are no more shallow than an Apple ad. And I'd say less, in that they have built up personal businesses by entertaining others and finding a way to monetize it. It's not my kind of thing, but it's not essentially different than the travel magazine business. In both cases people go places and get paid to performatively do fun things in a way that's funded by self-promoting merchants.
It's true that my particular weakness was related to an economically productive activity. But although I personally value production more than consumption, production isn't inherently superior; one without the other is just waste.
Steve Jobs is Steve Jobs because he was very good at manipulating both producers and consumers. The (modest) technical improvements of the iPhone over existing smartphones wouldn't have happened without the millions of people who bought the notion that a slicker device in slicker packaging with slicker ads was deeply better.
Instagram influencers are no more shallow than an Apple ad. And I'd say less, in that they have built up personal businesses by entertaining others and finding a way to monetize it. It's not my kind of thing, but it's not essentially different than the travel magazine business. In both cases people go places and get paid to performatively do fun things in a way that's funded by self-promoting merchants.
What value does all this social media stuff produce? It’s affecting how companies promote products and services. If you don’t have a social media strategy as a multinational, you’re possibly going to miss out on a rather important demographic for consumer goods (not really important necessarily for FIRES businesses... yet). All these skills are going to be in large supply in the future when previously marketing was somewhat more Byzantine than a vaguely organic, democratic process.
The utility of a skill is mostly based around societal value of said skill, not really much else. People get paid millions all around the planet putting balls in various receptacles, but such is the human need for entertainment and feeling good (even if temporary) is a business that is never going to go away. Warren Buffett has said he’s lucky enough he was born when being able to memorize and process lots of financial numbers could be extremely advantageous - maybe that may not be so valuable in 600 years while art is much more precious?
The utility of a skill is mostly based around societal value of said skill, not really much else. People get paid millions all around the planet putting balls in various receptacles, but such is the human need for entertainment and feeling good (even if temporary) is a business that is never going to go away. Warren Buffett has said he’s lucky enough he was born when being able to memorize and process lots of financial numbers could be extremely advantageous - maybe that may not be so valuable in 600 years while art is much more precious?
Well that's if you assume this can't be gamed to prop up the non superficial. Bill Gates or Obama constantly used influencers on social media to get interesting messages out to the masses.
What I don't like is that the most hyper, overenthusiastic, over the top characters send a signal to kids that it's the only route up the ladder. It is not.
What I don't like is that the most hyper, overenthusiastic, over the top characters send a signal to kids that it's the only route up the ladder. It is not.
Certainty exaggerated, however using the nosedive episode as the example, each of the "ratings" are given by people based on social interactions.
Their emptiness in the case of the show is based on the emptiness of the people themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if such a system did wind up being fairly "empty" as you say (see: twitter, IG etc...), but that's a reflection on the users, not the structure of the system.
Their emptiness in the case of the show is based on the emptiness of the people themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if such a system did wind up being fairly "empty" as you say (see: twitter, IG etc...), but that's a reflection on the users, not the structure of the system.
Exactly. At least Instagram has a visible number (your follower count) that is a decent proxy for what "level" you've reached. With "good old boys" networks it's totally opaque.
Why is that better?
Cause now if NASA needs some extra funding they just need to convince Kim Kardashian (or whoever replaces her day after tomorrow on the top of the pyramid) of its importance. It's going to happen. Just watch.
The alarming thing is that after seeing the Kanye & Kardashian empire get more political, I can very much picture a future where we have Kanye is president in 2020 or 2024.
To put it in millennial marketing pseudo-jargon: how many likes = 1 vote?
To put it in millennial marketing pseudo-jargon: how many likes = 1 vote?
You mean like when Kanye said he would in 2015?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9x92nwGf_M
Now that he has seen Trump get elected, I am sure he knows it is possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9x92nwGf_M
Now that he has seen Trump get elected, I am sure he knows it is possible.
Transparency being a good thing and it being more honest and "meritocratic" (in a defined scope of merit as who can get the most eyeballs as opposed to useful to society or genuine talent). With good old boys network it is who you know not what you know. It is more dynamic as well than oligarchic networks.
>Hansen: High fours. Impress those up-scale folks, you'll gain velocity on your arc and there's your boost.
somewhat similar appealing to google search the way to gaming instagram is by having famous people/big accounts/verified accounts comment and interact with ur account so you 1. appear in the activity for their followers 2. appear on the explore page for the potential new followers and more engagement, repeat ad nauseam
"organic growth"
somewhat similar appealing to google search the way to gaming instagram is by having famous people/big accounts/verified accounts comment and interact with ur account so you 1. appear in the activity for their followers 2. appear on the explore page for the potential new followers and more engagement, repeat ad nauseam
"organic growth"
> the roll-out of social credit scores in China
The thing is, these all aren't enforced by governments, but through social media and organizations. The popular one sesame credit in China is from the Alibaba group, not the Chinese government. In the same vein, Instagram is it's own platform, people can determine how much they think "followers" are worth and businesses can use their own discretion to decide how much to enforce their own policies based on others "social credit" or "followers"
The thing is, these all aren't enforced by governments, but through social media and organizations. The popular one sesame credit in China is from the Alibaba group, not the Chinese government. In the same vein, Instagram is it's own platform, people can determine how much they think "followers" are worth and businesses can use their own discretion to decide how much to enforce their own policies based on others "social credit" or "followers"
Your credit score isn't enforced by the government either, but a poor score (for reasons that may be beyond your control) will still prevent you from getting loans or credit.
Except that if the "social "companies keep growing and merging eventually they will have more power than governments and if you are not signed up you may as well don't exist.
Which is explored (in a decent but not brilliant way) in the Emma Watson movie "The Circle". It's ending was somewhat chilling, if a little naff. I enjoyed it though, and provoked some interesting thoughts, even if it doesn't dive quite as deep as I'd like into this topic.
Are you sure? The government will still have its monopoly on force and power to tax.
I don't know whether to up or down vote this. I respect it as art and it makes me ill.
Your concerns are themselves ironic. I'm so confused.
I don't understand what you're saying but would like to. What did you identify as my concerns and in what way are they ironic?
I think the joke is that you're choosing to upvote a post, and by proxy the person who wrote it, in relation to the horrifying "upvote" centered plot of the television episode quoted. It's upvotes all the way down.
Presumably the irony arises from your confusion as to if you should add or remove social reputation from a comment discussing an episode primarily about the near future of adding and removing social reputation.
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At least Klout died.
Anna Delvrey tops them all, at least in ambition:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/04/my-misadventure-with...
TL;DR socialite of unknown authenticity (but definitely real confidence woman) scams a bank, luxury hotels and restaurants, private air charter company, and the author of that article out of several hundred thousand dollars. Did not get the $20M she was hoping for, though.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/04/my-misadventure-with...
TL;DR socialite of unknown authenticity (but definitely real confidence woman) scams a bank, luxury hotels and restaurants, private air charter company, and the author of that article out of several hundred thousand dollars. Did not get the $20M she was hoping for, though.
The article that broke the Anna Delvey story was more thrilling: https://www.thecut.com/2018/05/how-anna-delvey-tricked-new-y... . She managed to exploit people's need for vanity...
There's talk of a movie deal, so, her brazenness might be rewarded after all.
There's talk of a movie deal, so, her brazenness might be rewarded after all.
Vanity fair initially broke the store, the author was scammed by Anna Delvey.
And thus another pyramid appears...
I'm sorry, completely off topic. I can't believe your username was available up until 2016, kinda jealous.
I wonder why the strategy of these "brand personalities" has to be limited to "luxury" type branding.
For example, could you build a following traveling the country by interstate in a Fiesta, staying at Motel 6 and eating at Waffle House? It wouldn't cost Motel 6 and Waffle House almost anything to comp a few waffles and otherwise-unoccupied rooms as an experiment, if they aren't doing similar things already.
For example, could you build a following traveling the country by interstate in a Fiesta, staying at Motel 6 and eating at Waffle House? It wouldn't cost Motel 6 and Waffle House almost anything to comp a few waffles and otherwise-unoccupied rooms as an experiment, if they aren't doing similar things already.
Pot bellied middle-aged bald white man drives to his Motel 6 in his Ford Fiesta, crosses the street to a Waffle House, gorges himself on waffles and syrup, and returns to his hotel room to cry and wonder where it all went wrong?
Sounds great.
Sounds great.
Something pretty close to that already exists, and has been really successful: https://youtu.be/ELPKuKvo44k
Hahahahahahahaha
Bill Bryson wrote a hilarious--but acerbic--book about exactly this: The Lost Continent .
http://a.co/121JpWz
He was in a Chevette, not a Fiesta, and the hotels were off-brand but it's the same idea. A typical passage:
http://a.co/121JpWz
He was in a Chevette, not a Fiesta, and the hotels were off-brand but it's the same idea. A typical passage:
Afterwards I retired with a six-pack to my motel,
where I discovered that the bed, judging by its
fragrance and shape, had only recently been vacated by a
horse. It had a sag in it so severe that I could only
see the TV at its foot by splaying my legs to their
widest extremity. It was like lying in a wheel-barrow.I would create an Instagram account just to follow this guy.
Obviously you wouldn't or you would have done this already.
It exists, look up Glennyballs on Barstool Sports.
Brilliant! I would, too.
My Dad is basically doing this in the UK: https://www.youtube.com/motorhomeman :)
People want escapism. Something out of their ordinary lives. Like movies. As someone who is heavily involved in Instagram marketing, I don't see the value for anyone other than dreamers. Which is why my focus is niche, local, and accessible to everyone. In return I send a TON of real customers to places that I choose to promote.
Why do people trust your recommendations? I’m not saying you are untrustworthy. I don’t know you. But that is my point. Why do people trust “influencers”? I would feel like a tremendous fool even following a stranger’s account, much less going somewhere on their say-so.
Well, why can people trust any other people at all?
Well, here are some ways:
1. They have an incentive to be honest* (e.g. they would be punished if they weren't), e.g. lawyers, engineers, family members
2. They seem like just honest people, e.g. the Dalai Lama?
3. They say or do many other things that you agree with and your values seem aligned, e.g. politicians, athletes, some corporate leaders
4. They are a lot like you, except slightly different, so you trust them implicitly because you would trust yourself
Influencers can hit a bit of all those notes.
At this early point, it's probably easier as an influencer to actually find a place that they like and think are good, rather than just taking cash to promote something they don't believe in. Later on that may change.
Influencers do have a reputation, if they keep sending people to garbage, eventually those people will notice, so they have something to lose.
Some influencers are really good at certain things that people admire (e.g. game influencers), and a lot of influencers go for that 'just a regular person who is your friend and let's go on cool trips together' feel.
But note that these same points are potential reasons to distrust, e.g. an influencer who has hit it big and plans to exit the business anyway may find it more worthwhile to start shilling since their future reputation doesn't matter to them.
Well, here are some ways:
1. They have an incentive to be honest* (e.g. they would be punished if they weren't), e.g. lawyers, engineers, family members
2. They seem like just honest people, e.g. the Dalai Lama?
3. They say or do many other things that you agree with and your values seem aligned, e.g. politicians, athletes, some corporate leaders
4. They are a lot like you, except slightly different, so you trust them implicitly because you would trust yourself
Influencers can hit a bit of all those notes.
At this early point, it's probably easier as an influencer to actually find a place that they like and think are good, rather than just taking cash to promote something they don't believe in. Later on that may change.
Influencers do have a reputation, if they keep sending people to garbage, eventually those people will notice, so they have something to lose.
Some influencers are really good at certain things that people admire (e.g. game influencers), and a lot of influencers go for that 'just a regular person who is your friend and let's go on cool trips together' feel.
But note that these same points are potential reasons to distrust, e.g. an influencer who has hit it big and plans to exit the business anyway may find it more worthwhile to start shilling since their future reputation doesn't matter to them.
They have an incentive to be honest
I think influencers have more of an incentive to be dishonest than to be honest. If they tell a hotel "I'll promote you to all of my followers if you give me a week's stay" and then they go on to tell their followers "This place is crap, stay away", that's going to reduce their future business.
If they tell their followers to go to a crap hotel, then they can just say "Oh, it must have changed since I was there". And indeed, by revealing themselves to the hotel beforehand, they've tainted the experience, the hotel is going to treat them differently.
I think influencers have more of an incentive to be dishonest than to be honest. If they tell a hotel "I'll promote you to all of my followers if you give me a week's stay" and then they go on to tell their followers "This place is crap, stay away", that's going to reduce their future business.
If they tell their followers to go to a crap hotel, then they can just say "Oh, it must have changed since I was there". And indeed, by revealing themselves to the hotel beforehand, they've tainted the experience, the hotel is going to treat them differently.
> Well, why can people trust any other people at all?
I trust (some) people I know, because I know them.
I trust (some) people I know, because I know them.
They trust them for being being popular. Being popular has become the goal.
Aspiring to be famous for something, like being a great musician, no longer seems to be thought a necessary component.
Aspiring to be famous for something, like being a great musician, no longer seems to be thought a necessary component.
That's because under capitalism, salary is confused with talent and pricing with quality.
the most famous musicians are not the greatest musicians, the relationship is largely arbitrary
the most famous musicians are not the greatest musicians, the relationship is largely arbitrary
Typically because they're attracted to them and want to either be like them or have sex with them.
People trust and are totally happy to be manipulated by completely fictitious, entirely fabricated depictions of individuals in advertising and programs on television.
It has little to do with that. The exposure is what counts. Put a picture of a nice hotel and say it's name. Now you have an ad that went out to 100k people. The person is mostly irrelevant, a hotel just wants people to know it exists.
I can't help but wonder the percentage of those 100 k people who are likely to book in an expensive hotel.
How is that different from any other advertisement?
I don't promote any food or drinks that I don't love myself. Even when working with restaurants, I make this clear. You can give me all the food you want, but if I don't think it's awesome, I'm not going to talk about it. So that removes any negative criticism, and it makes it greatly in their interest to serve good food. It's ONLY about the product. I'm completely anonymous, very few outside of the industry even know who I am, so I'm not wasting their time with dumb lifestyle pictures of myself. I don't need the money, I'm doing it for the networking, and growing the food scene. My followers recognize this, and is the reason I am the largest in the entire region.
"You can give me all the food you want, but if I don't think it's awesome, I'm not going to talk about it."
That's cool but the old world where if the food isn't awesome the writer will say "THIS FOOD WAS BAD" was probably better.
That's cool but the old world where if the food isn't awesome the writer will say "THIS FOOD WAS BAD" was probably better.
Nope, provides no value except for spreading negativity. I don't have time for talking about everything I put in my mouth. I'm not a critic.
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What are you?
Promoter.
So basically a defective reviewer?
As someone who only reads restaurant reviews in the hope that they'll be bad (I blame over-exposure to AA Gill), I find this whole social media 'influencer' thing deeply boring. Bad reviews are the fun type!
As someone who only reads restaurant reviews in the hope that they'll be bad (I blame over-exposure to AA Gill), I find this whole social media 'influencer' thing deeply boring. Bad reviews are the fun type!
Is that different from "influencer"?
I think it is more of an advocate.
Talking about things that you like is fun and from what the poster stated, they benefit from trying new things and building a following. One of my coworkers does this for beer and has a a small following more interested in the minutiae of beer stuff than commerce.
The problem is a matter of trust... when the advocate decides to cash in, the nature of what they write can change dramatically.
Talking about things that you like is fun and from what the poster stated, they benefit from trying new things and building a following. One of my coworkers does this for beer and has a a small following more interested in the minutiae of beer stuff than commerce.
The problem is a matter of trust... when the advocate decides to cash in, the nature of what they write can change dramatically.
You have to trust someone, either the company describing the product themselves, a rating website, or this person.
Because you have a history of being trustworthy. I'd assume.
> People want escapism
Do they really though? People are told and trained all their lives to want escapism. That their lives could be better if they drank X, drove Y and wore Z. It's a natural side effect of branding and advertising. It's not enough to sell to the people who actually need your product, you have to convince others that they want it too.
Consumerism is not a natural human mechanism. It's a hack of commerce and something we've only really been exposed to —in any scale— for the last couple of hundred years.
Do they really though? People are told and trained all their lives to want escapism. That their lives could be better if they drank X, drove Y and wore Z. It's a natural side effect of branding and advertising. It's not enough to sell to the people who actually need your product, you have to convince others that they want it too.
Consumerism is not a natural human mechanism. It's a hack of commerce and something we've only really been exposed to —in any scale— for the last couple of hundred years.
People also want to feel unique and special. If you can show them something they can have/do that everyone else is not doing or doesn't know about then that has value to them. Even if it's as simple as a restaurant that they already go to, but don't know about something great you can order or experience there.
This is sort of what the report of the week ('reviewbrah' [0]) is doing, no? Reviewing fast food in a quirky manner. Million+ subscribers on youtube, really interesting to have followed this for 5+ years when he had a few hundred subscribers.
Doing the exact same thing with very small refinements, over and over. It's not that glamorous, but I reckon at 1M+ subscribers he is doing quite a lot better than many obscure luxurious lifestyle personalities.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TheReportOfTheWeek
Doing the exact same thing with very small refinements, over and over. It's not that glamorous, but I reckon at 1M+ subscribers he is doing quite a lot better than many obscure luxurious lifestyle personalities.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TheReportOfTheWeek
I'm from Nepal and I've been subscribed to reviewbrah since 2016. I suspect his viewership is much more diverse and widespread that you'd think. It's the internet after all.
> traveling the country by interstate in a Fiesta, staying at Motel 6 and eating at Waffle House
The problem is that those things are not difficult to obtain, and so any following you would have would be shared by 100K people just like you. To be interesting, you'd have to have some unattainable quality in addition to eating at Waffle House, such as being a multi-billionaire, or an extremely successful actor/actress, or a Turner Prize winning artist.
Of course, this would end up with custom $250K Fiestas, Motel 6 starting a curated luxury brand, and Waffle Houses with chefs and monthlong reservation lists. The reason why a flow of money for nothing comes from luxury branding is pretty obvious. The cash is coming from people who spend large amounts of money casually, in a way that can be significantly influenced by the people they follow on Instagram.
The problem is that those things are not difficult to obtain, and so any following you would have would be shared by 100K people just like you. To be interesting, you'd have to have some unattainable quality in addition to eating at Waffle House, such as being a multi-billionaire, or an extremely successful actor/actress, or a Turner Prize winning artist.
Of course, this would end up with custom $250K Fiestas, Motel 6 starting a curated luxury brand, and Waffle Houses with chefs and monthlong reservation lists. The reason why a flow of money for nothing comes from luxury branding is pretty obvious. The cash is coming from people who spend large amounts of money casually, in a way that can be significantly influenced by the people they follow on Instagram.
To an extent that was what "Anthony Bordain - Parts Unknown" did. He frequently was in very nice places, but he would also go to hole in the wall places that always looked incredible.
They looked incredible because he had scouts and fixers setting up the places before he went there. If you know some of the developing countries he filmed in, it is quite obvious -- and rather disappointing -- just how inauthentic his local encounters were.
Heh, interesting. Do you have a source for that? I would be curious to read more into it.
He actually talked about it a lot when he was on the Joe Rogan podcast years ago. If you search for it on youtube you'll see it. I recently watched it after his death so it's fresh on my mind.
Thanks for the follow up! I'll look it up.
Have you heard of the Fiesta Movement? [1] Ford essentially did that back in 2010.
With the right brand, right audience, and right production value, anything's possible. Influencer marketing can be finicky, though. A successful campaign requires authenticity – most audiences can see right through paid promotion. I think there's a different dynamic when a brand approaches a creator vs. a creator approaching a brand.
I think a lot of these self-proclaimed "influencers" seek out "luxury" type branding in an attempt to get free stuff they otherwise probably couldn't afford or to create content around a lifestyle which seems unattainable to their audience and therefore draws more views/clicks/shares/virality ("If only I could live like that one day") – mostly Internet junk-food.
[1] https://hbr.org/2010/01/ford-recently-wrapped-the-firs
With the right brand, right audience, and right production value, anything's possible. Influencer marketing can be finicky, though. A successful campaign requires authenticity – most audiences can see right through paid promotion. I think there's a different dynamic when a brand approaches a creator vs. a creator approaching a brand.
I think a lot of these self-proclaimed "influencers" seek out "luxury" type branding in an attempt to get free stuff they otherwise probably couldn't afford or to create content around a lifestyle which seems unattainable to their audience and therefore draws more views/clicks/shares/virality ("If only I could live like that one day") – mostly Internet junk-food.
[1] https://hbr.org/2010/01/ford-recently-wrapped-the-firs
It all depends on how entertaining the person is. Could Rowan Atkinson do that? Absolutely. Could your average person? No, it would be awkward and incredibly boring. In between, though, sure, someone could make something interesting based on that. Some of the best TV shows have very thin plots after all.
There are certainly people with channels that cater to camping or living out of a Jeep / Van. IAmJake for example on YouTube. [0] As evidenced by that I don't think a brand personality has to be luxury but it does have to have a point of view people can take interest in.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbjw-VrJCUb8PTGoiDI2UMw
[0] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbjw-VrJCUb8PTGoiDI2UMw
> living out of a Jeep
Hey, that's me!
2+ years, 80,000+ miles and 35+ countries in Africa living out of my Jeep. I've just passed the half-way point and am really looking forward to the Cape to Cairo run North.
http://instagram.com/theroadchoseme/
http://theroadchoseme.com
Hey, that's me!
2+ years, 80,000+ miles and 35+ countries in Africa living out of my Jeep. I've just passed the half-way point and am really looking forward to the Cape to Cairo run North.
http://instagram.com/theroadchoseme/
http://theroadchoseme.com
Wow, so well documented trips! I really like how you could turn your life around and show others how this can be achieved. Definitely the most inspiring thing I started reading this year, kudos!
Cheers! Let me know if you have any questions about what I'm doing / how I did it / etc. I'm very happy to help in any way I can !
I've collated a few of these here: https://vanspiration.com/social/
You're right - there are all types. Glamorous, selectively documenting lifestyle types, and others focusing on the craft of it, and others on living that way full time. And there are dozens more trying the same thing all the time, motivated by the earlier batches. I find it all a bit fascinating.
You're right - there are all types. Glamorous, selectively documenting lifestyle types, and others focusing on the craft of it, and others on living that way full time. And there are dozens more trying the same thing all the time, motivated by the earlier batches. I find it all a bit fascinating.
It's not vanlife, but I've been following Christoph Rehage recently (http://thelongestway.com/)
He's been walking from China to Europe on and off for a few years now. He's currently walking through Iran.
He has some amazing interactions on the road, it's incredible how many people stop to talk to him, or give him food (or in one case, try and rob him at gunpoint for his watch).
One thing I like about his blog and journey is that he doesn't seem to be documenting a lifestyle, or push a philosophy on anyone. He just enjoys walking.
He's been walking from China to Europe on and off for a few years now. He's currently walking through Iran.
He has some amazing interactions on the road, it's incredible how many people stop to talk to him, or give him food (or in one case, try and rob him at gunpoint for his watch).
One thing I like about his blog and journey is that he doesn't seem to be documenting a lifestyle, or push a philosophy on anyone. He just enjoys walking.
You could, but it misunderstands luxury marketing.
The difference between "luxury" marketing and even "premium" (or mainstream) marketing are the former's efforts to influence people who are never going to buy or use the product.
A lot of a luxury good's status comes from the "halo" given to it by all of us who'll unlikely use it - thus giving it the allure to the people who have the money.
So, in essence, it's more important for a luxury brand to have mass market penetration, than it is for a premium product. For example, Aston Martin needs you to know it's an unattainable symbolic brand, and does that through mainstream marketing (like Bond product placements, YouTuber videos etc...) more than BMW does (who're selling to a premium audience who will buy on product rather than perception).
TL;DR: perversely, it's in everyone's interests to use influencers more for the luxury industry than the rest of the industry, and why it's seeing the abuse it is.
The difference between "luxury" marketing and even "premium" (or mainstream) marketing are the former's efforts to influence people who are never going to buy or use the product.
A lot of a luxury good's status comes from the "halo" given to it by all of us who'll unlikely use it - thus giving it the allure to the people who have the money.
So, in essence, it's more important for a luxury brand to have mass market penetration, than it is for a premium product. For example, Aston Martin needs you to know it's an unattainable symbolic brand, and does that through mainstream marketing (like Bond product placements, YouTuber videos etc...) more than BMW does (who're selling to a premium audience who will buy on product rather than perception).
TL;DR: perversely, it's in everyone's interests to use influencers more for the luxury industry than the rest of the industry, and why it's seeing the abuse it is.
Ah, the ol' reverse psychology.
By showing people what it's like to vacation in a Fiesta, Motel 6, and Waffle House you'll drive traffic to luxury hotels.
By showing people what it's like to vacation in a Fiesta, Motel 6, and Waffle House you'll drive traffic to luxury hotels.
I'd go to a clean Motel 6 any day of the week. Unpretentious, a good value, and frequently you're dealing with locally-run operations so you're actually dealing with folks empowered to handle an issue and even sometimes give a damn.
All of my experiences with mid-to-high end hotels seem like an exercise in bilking you at every turn so you can pretend you're wealthy, and hotel staff that are artificially polite at best, indifferent and uncaring at worst.
All of my experiences with mid-to-high end hotels seem like an exercise in bilking you at every turn so you can pretend you're wealthy, and hotel staff that are artificially polite at best, indifferent and uncaring at worst.
I've had some pretty good times in a cheap american car (not a fiesta, however), staying at motel 6 except the one in Crescent city near the supermax prison, and eating at generic American restaurants across the country.
So basically Roadkill if Roadkill was sponsored by Motel 6 and Waffle House instead of Dodge?
With the right technique: video production, writing (so much this), and acting you absolutely could game this concept.
I just want to know who the heck takes recommendations of 'influencers' seriously? Gullible teens with no money?
My thoughts exactly.
It seems to me that the target market of these “influencers” is teens with little to no money that spend hours looking at these “influencers” exactly because these pictures are as close as they’re gonna get to that luxury lifestyle.
People who can actually afford this will just go on holidays by themselves with no thoughts about the “influencers” whatsoever, also because by the time you can afford such lifestyles you widen up to the obvious commercial intents of these influencer “recommendations”, making their “review” purpose moot.
In my social circle people who spend days & nights looking and sharing the influencer pictures can’t actually afford any of that even if they wanted to. Those that can afford it don’t give a damn about the influencers.
It seems to me that the target market of these “influencers” is teens with little to no money that spend hours looking at these “influencers” exactly because these pictures are as close as they’re gonna get to that luxury lifestyle.
People who can actually afford this will just go on holidays by themselves with no thoughts about the “influencers” whatsoever, also because by the time you can afford such lifestyles you widen up to the obvious commercial intents of these influencer “recommendations”, making their “review” purpose moot.
In my social circle people who spend days & nights looking and sharing the influencer pictures can’t actually afford any of that even if they wanted to. Those that can afford it don’t give a damn about the influencers.
> People who can actually afford this will just go on holidays by themselves with no thoughts about the “influencers” whatsoever, also because by the time you can afford such lifestyles you widen up to the obvious commercial intents of these influencer “recommendations”, making their “review” purpose moot.
Isn't the idea to follow people who, for example, travel to cool places that you might not have considered?
Perhaps seeing one of those pictures pop up where influencer X spends a while in a Maldives resort might actually get you interested to go check it out yourself?
Isn't the idea to follow people who, for example, travel to cool places that you might not have considered?
Perhaps seeing one of those pictures pop up where influencer X spends a while in a Maldives resort might actually get you interested to go check it out yourself?
I would be interested in cool places where influencers don't go...
To my knowledge influencers rarely travel to "cool" places. They travel to family friendly, safe places. And safe in multiple meanings in both "people are safe here" and "this place is safe for me as influencer since noone will be offended".
My family used to travel a lot and we went to a lot of family-unsafe places at times (like in-the-wilderniss campsites in southern africa where you can't leave the RV because there is snakes and wild animals outside or climbing up several vulcanoes in iceland and I mean 'climb' not 'walk up a slope')
Those are actually cool places.
My family used to travel a lot and we went to a lot of family-unsafe places at times (like in-the-wilderniss campsites in southern africa where you can't leave the RV because there is snakes and wild animals outside or climbing up several vulcanoes in iceland and I mean 'climb' not 'walk up a slope')
Those are actually cool places.
I'm not disagreeing with what you say, because I too think the places you describe are often cool. However, they're also very much outside of the comfort zone of most people.
For example, on average I would assume most women prefer a romantic getaway to the Maldives over climbing a volcano in Iceland. And most people with kids likely won't be going on a month long roadtrip through Africa or South-America.
For example, on average I would assume most women prefer a romantic getaway to the Maldives over climbing a volcano in Iceland. And most people with kids likely won't be going on a month long roadtrip through Africa or South-America.
> For example, on average I would assume most women prefer a romantic getaway to the Maldives over climbing a volcano in Iceland. And most people with kids likely won't be going on a month long roadtrip through Africa or South-America.
Because a romantic getaway is far cheaper than Iceland or Africa. It's not because it's outside their comfort zone, it's because they can't afford it. The average woman (or man) can barely take enough vacation days, let alone pay for it.
Because a romantic getaway is far cheaper than Iceland or Africa. It's not because it's outside their comfort zone, it's because they can't afford it. The average woman (or man) can barely take enough vacation days, let alone pay for it.
Apparently the advertisers buying space in FT's "How to spend it" issues think at least someone cares.
While most readers of the FT wouldn't drop six figures on a watch, the people who would spend that are more likely to be FT readers than most, so it's the right place to reach them.
As for Instagram influencers: who are the people staying in these hotels? Sure, a lot of them are likely to be the sort who read the FT or the Economist, but a good chunk of them are going to be honeymooners, for example, who I'd imagine are exactly the sort who would look to Instagram for ideas. Likewise there are obviously people in their 20s who could afford to stay in these places, and not all of them spend their time on HN. I'd guess Instagram is as good a place as any to reach them.
As for Instagram influencers: who are the people staying in these hotels? Sure, a lot of them are likely to be the sort who read the FT or the Economist, but a good chunk of them are going to be honeymooners, for example, who I'd imagine are exactly the sort who would look to Instagram for ideas. Likewise there are obviously people in their 20s who could afford to stay in these places, and not all of them spend their time on HN. I'd guess Instagram is as good a place as any to reach them.
I think of this publication as a guide to expensive presents for your wife or a girlfriend.
... by way of apology for working all the time and neglecting her... It’s a big circle.
These guys fill voids in google searches and may close a deal when people are looking for validation.
If you cannot make a decision between the Four Seasons and the Conrad or whatever, some random guys food porn or gush about the bellman may tip you.
Travel magazines have been doing this sort of thing for decades.
If you cannot make a decision between the Four Seasons and the Conrad or whatever, some random guys food porn or gush about the bellman may tip you.
Travel magazines have been doing this sort of thing for decades.
To be fair that is a good thing as a long term strategy. They may lack money now but in the future when they could afford it that could pay large premiums. It is why marketers were so focused on youth for marketing - they have less set tastes and more big ticket items in the future.
Most teenagers can't afford a sports car but if you win them over they could wind up buying one when they are older and able to afford it.
I have seen the reverse backfire with traditional news. They would take all sorts of bullshit youth blaming and stupid moral panics and then wonder why people under middle age don't consider them worth reading or watching for free, let alone paying for.
Most teenagers can't afford a sports car but if you win them over they could wind up buying one when they are older and able to afford it.
I have seen the reverse backfire with traditional news. They would take all sorts of bullshit youth blaming and stupid moral panics and then wonder why people under middle age don't consider them worth reading or watching for free, let alone paying for.
I think Instagram is just replacing magazines. People use their phone for inspiration like they used to read paper travel content. Even if they are not traveling, the content fuels imagination and dreams.
That is interesting. People buy Vogue because of the paid content. The creative and editorial content too but that has equal weight with the paid content to the reader.
Most people I know who follow "influencers" are blokes who just want to see hot chicks on their Insta feed, or girls with insecurity issues who want to live vicariously through Instagram.
Influencers do work for that certain demographic though, to an extent. Contiki, who offer group travel packages for the 20-something year old market who just want to go on a bar crawl through Europe or Asia, use influencers a lot to sell their product. They're just in the right price bracket where they can say "look, for only $4000, you too can live this kind of lifestyle".
It's the budget-luxury brands that get the best value for money out of influencers. When people splash out a bit of money, they'll look at the successful influencers and say "I want to be like them", and buy the stuff that they're shilling, trying to buy the lifestyle.
Personally, I wouldn't go on a Contiki tour if you paid me, but there are people who enjoy that kind of travel. There are even travel companies that sell packages specifically designed so you can get as much Instagram material as possible, in an attempt to become an influencer yourself. It's a vicious, self feeding cycle.
Influencers do work for that certain demographic though, to an extent. Contiki, who offer group travel packages for the 20-something year old market who just want to go on a bar crawl through Europe or Asia, use influencers a lot to sell their product. They're just in the right price bracket where they can say "look, for only $4000, you too can live this kind of lifestyle".
It's the budget-luxury brands that get the best value for money out of influencers. When people splash out a bit of money, they'll look at the successful influencers and say "I want to be like them", and buy the stuff that they're shilling, trying to buy the lifestyle.
Personally, I wouldn't go on a Contiki tour if you paid me, but there are people who enjoy that kind of travel. There are even travel companies that sell packages specifically designed so you can get as much Instagram material as possible, in an attempt to become an influencer yourself. It's a vicious, self feeding cycle.
Gullible teens with money, which is why their influence can be worth money.
Which is why this stuff works for premium mediocre products. Stuff that is more expensive, but still within the reach of the middle class.
But their followers cannot afford 1000 dollar a night hotels. So if I was a luxury hotel, I'd tell them to fuck off.
But if I was a cupcake shop, I'd let each of these influencers eat whatever they wanted for free.
Which is why this stuff works for premium mediocre products. Stuff that is more expensive, but still within the reach of the middle class.
But their followers cannot afford 1000 dollar a night hotels. So if I was a luxury hotel, I'd tell them to fuck off.
But if I was a cupcake shop, I'd let each of these influencers eat whatever they wanted for free.
That's not really how it works. The hotel puts up the influencer in the ludicrously expensive over-water bungalow or deluxe suite or whatever. Followers book the cheaper rooms hoping for the same experience.
That would be a good model, but in my experience, luxury hotels don't have cheap rooms.
It really depends on what kind of hotel and where in the world it is.
What you say is true of Paris, Aman hotels, some Four Seasons properties, African safaris, most of the Maldives, and a handful of other places and hotel operators.
It's not true of many others, some of which are surprising: Mauritius, Vienna, much of Asia (esp Japan and Thailand), much of South America, most of India, a lot of Italy, and even French Polynesia.
What you say is true of Paris, Aman hotels, some Four Seasons properties, African safaris, most of the Maldives, and a handful of other places and hotel operators.
It's not true of many others, some of which are surprising: Mauritius, Vienna, much of Asia (esp Japan and Thailand), much of South America, most of India, a lot of Italy, and even French Polynesia.
Depends what you consider expensive of course. You're not going to find a 5-star hotel in London at £99 a night, no.
Then again, it's a 5-star hotel, so service will generally be good (and that is worth something in my view).
Then again, it's a 5-star hotel, so service will generally be good (and that is worth something in my view).
Or alternatively, the influencer has the grand holiday experience for no real occasion while the follower springs for it as a treat for their honeymoon or milestone or something.
It's not even limited to teens - those with the most money to spend are probably more likely to be in their 20s working their first "real" jobs and having "fun". They've learned about "disposable" incomes, low attachments/commitments (being truly free of parents/guardians), and feel that spending is their just reward for slogging it Monday to Friday. It's a typical "work hard, play harder" mentality, and encouraged by many cultures (including Japanese?).
Alcohol is also factor in some way with many decisions - it probably doesn't come as a surprise to non-drinkers just how expensive a weekly habit can get. It also helps to be able to work on spreadsheets and compound interest calculations whilst staying strictly sober. ;)
Overall in the end, it's still the same old phenomenon; advertising, but carried through a newer medium. TV infomercials, print ads and telemarketing used to be big, but that's passé now.
Perhaps what I find more interesting about the OP is how there are still so many businesses with informal processes when it comes to promotion - even something as a simple as an up-to-date Google Maps listing can sometimes go neglected.
Alcohol is also factor in some way with many decisions - it probably doesn't come as a surprise to non-drinkers just how expensive a weekly habit can get. It also helps to be able to work on spreadsheets and compound interest calculations whilst staying strictly sober. ;)
Overall in the end, it's still the same old phenomenon; advertising, but carried through a newer medium. TV infomercials, print ads and telemarketing used to be big, but that's passé now.
Perhaps what I find more interesting about the OP is how there are still so many businesses with informal processes when it comes to promotion - even something as a simple as an up-to-date Google Maps listing can sometimes go neglected.
Your peers. Daringfireball, A very popular blog with readers of this site, gets something like $15,000 per mention in their newsletter.
There are several differences though. First, DF has a lot less sponsorship spots than your average influencer who basically posts ads 24/7. Second, the stuff which is usually advertised on tech blogs is mostly about work related products which also usually cost less than one of those fancy vacations. DF also has more readers that most of the influencers that are considered successful.
Now, I know for a fact that the feeds to influence buying decisions for smaller, cheaper stuff, such as cosmetics. It is not a long stretch to think that it also works for vacations. However, from what I heard, the brands that are most successful in selling out their stock are in the category of affordable luxury.
Now, I know for a fact that the feeds to influence buying decisions for smaller, cheaper stuff, such as cosmetics. It is not a long stretch to think that it also works for vacations. However, from what I heard, the brands that are most successful in selling out their stock are in the category of affordable luxury.
It is currently $8,500.
I think the majority of people that get large disposable income are heavily influenced by lifestyle marketing. The tech crowd tends to be the exception with our frugal, down to earth ways despite earning lots of money.
I don't think we are immune, we just aspire for a different "lifestyle" than a teenage girl from NYC. While the teenage girl would be dreaming about partying all night on a beach with cute guys (and nursing hangovers in a beautiful spa), a tech bro might dream about taking a Wrangler through the Moab, camping under the stars for a few weeks.
Apple currently still encompasses all.
I think you are just used to the HN and tech bubble. A lot of us here most likely don't consume nearly as much social media as the average person does. "Instagram, owned by Facebook, says its users under 25 spend “more than 32 minutes a day on Instagram,” and users 25 and over “spend more than 24 minutes a day” on the app. [0].
In fact, my girlfriend who uses social media a lot more than I do says she knows like dozens of girls from college who are all wannabe influencers. There is a huge social media rat race currently going on which is why Facebook is making 40 billion dollars a year.
[0]: https://www.recode.net/2017/8/2/16081086/instagram-snapchat-...
In fact, my girlfriend who uses social media a lot more than I do says she knows like dozens of girls from college who are all wannabe influencers. There is a huge social media rat race currently going on which is why Facebook is making 40 billion dollars a year.
[0]: https://www.recode.net/2017/8/2/16081086/instagram-snapchat-...
Does your average "influencer" make any money or is it just the top 100 or so that will ever see more than a free weekend and a plane ticket in coach?
Ok, you are looking for a place to stay, who do you trust? The owners website, a booking website with a million properties? Or someone you know online, like their work, and recommend only a few places?
You have to trust someone.
You have to trust someone.
> Or someone you know online
Following someone, and knowing them are different things.
> like their work
Which often is "selfies in different places"
> and recommend only a few places?
That they convinced to let them stay, visit, or eat for free...
Following someone, and knowing them are different things.
> like their work
Which often is "selfies in different places"
> and recommend only a few places?
That they convinced to let them stay, visit, or eat for free...
All of those things are really subjective. A selfie is just a photo of the subject in situ, and it's often more genuine than stock/provided shots used in travel marketing.
Consider also that the alternatives are heeding the hotel itself or a booking engine or a travel agent. As was said, if you're going to be influenced by someone, why wouldn't it be someone whose veneer of life you'd at least tangentially followed, someone who might typically have similar interests to you (surfing, outdoors, fine dining, etc). It might be an imperfect filter of the products being offered, but at least there's a non-zero chance that they rejected poor offers or didn't write enthusiastically about the ones they didn't love.
I think it's short sighted to write off some of this.
Consider also that the alternatives are heeding the hotel itself or a booking engine or a travel agent. As was said, if you're going to be influenced by someone, why wouldn't it be someone whose veneer of life you'd at least tangentially followed, someone who might typically have similar interests to you (surfing, outdoors, fine dining, etc). It might be an imperfect filter of the products being offered, but at least there's a non-zero chance that they rejected poor offers or didn't write enthusiastically about the ones they didn't love.
I think it's short sighted to write off some of this.
Why not look at an aggregation of tens of thousands of reviews? Much less likely to be bought. In the world of bots and influencers, reviews that cite the hotels weaknesses are the most valuable.
I think you're being a bit too jaded about this. It's less about the recommendation and more about the reach and discovery. There are numerous restaurants, vacation spots, and businesses that I would have never discovered on my own. Seeing a post for me is less about "oh I want to do what that person is doing" and more about "oh I didn't know that restaurant existed". This is incredibly valuable.
> I just want to know who the heck takes recommendations of 'influencers' seriously? Gullible teens with no money?
That doesn't mean mom and dad got no money, though.
I happen to know a kid with rich parents and they frequently have to buy him stuff he discovered on instagram -- YEEZY shoes and whatnot.
I'm sure there are enough kids that'll bug their parents about planning their next vacation where some popular influencer were.
That doesn't mean mom and dad got no money, though.
I happen to know a kid with rich parents and they frequently have to buy him stuff he discovered on instagram -- YEEZY shoes and whatnot.
I'm sure there are enough kids that'll bug their parents about planning their next vacation where some popular influencer were.
> kid with rich parents and they frequently have to buy him stuff
You meant to say "rich parents who frequently chose to buy him stuff", didn't you?
You meant to say "rich parents who frequently chose to buy him stuff", didn't you?
To the extent that the parents chose to raise their children in an environment that taught them advanced emotional manipulation skills at an early age, sure.
This is what I thought. But then I learned that lots of young professionals with some disposable income take their Instagram feed very seriously. It influences brand decisions, where to eat, where to stay, where to be seen. You would be surprised - I was - how much a post by the right someone can drive revenue.
If you take anyone's review to inform your decision you are being "influenced". I use a combination of amazon/ youtube/yelp/ tripadvisor etc reviews to figure out which brand to buy for anything / to how things work. These include anything from beard trimmer to cookware set to figure out which restaurant to eat at.
It's probably not that direct. Having an 'influencer' post about your product is simply another possible ad view. I don't know what a targeted ad cost on IG, but giving someone a free night in a hotel room to have them post about it to their followers may be more effective and cost less.
It's generally about $1-2 per 100 followers per post.
Well, I think it highly depends on the niche. My wife for instance, enjoys makeup and skincare products so she follows certain personalities that sell their own lipstick or whatever. The most prominent examples of this that come to mind (because she brings it up to me) is Kylie Jenner and Jeffree Star. The products aren't prohibitively expensive (though I think they are incredibly overpriced and believe she'd do just fine by buying generic Target brand stuff) but she seems to be persuaded by it.
I know with those examples they are selling their own products, but I'm sure there are some more Linus Tech Tips style makeup influencers that she follows that impacts her buying decisions with her disposable income.
I know with those examples they are selling their own products, but I'm sure there are some more Linus Tech Tips style makeup influencers that she follows that impacts her buying decisions with her disposable income.
I mean... It happens within the software industry quite frequently. Look at Ryan Florence, the guy who thinks Github should remove "issues". He's revered like a god to some.
Or Mike Church, or Uncle Bob... pretty common, actually.
The same people who bought a brand because a hockey player endorsed them on TV
These people exist across verticals. And many wind up very successful b/c at the end of the day people are afraid of not being cool enough. To wit: AOL's 'digital prophet', Shingy.
> I just want to know who the heck takes recommendations of 'influencers' seriously?
Their fans?
> Gullible teens with no money?
Probably. But gullible teens with no money have parents who have money and gullible teens with no money grow up to become adults with money. Hence why advertisers want to get to them when they are young. It's well known that earlier you can influence people, the more influence you can have.
"Influencers" is a new word for an old concept - people/institutions with a following.
Lebron James is an influencer. The Atlantic ( and its journalists ) are influencers. Tom Hanks is an influencer. Why do you think advertisers spend so much money on them?
Their fans?
> Gullible teens with no money?
Probably. But gullible teens with no money have parents who have money and gullible teens with no money grow up to become adults with money. Hence why advertisers want to get to them when they are young. It's well known that earlier you can influence people, the more influence you can have.
"Influencers" is a new word for an old concept - people/institutions with a following.
Lebron James is an influencer. The Atlantic ( and its journalists ) are influencers. Tom Hanks is an influencer. Why do you think advertisers spend so much money on them?
The difference, of course, is that lebron James and Tom Hanks have some other talent that can explain their fame, and The Atlantic journalists also are influential because of some other thing they do (besides influencing). These Instagram people are influencers because... why? What underlying talent or past event launched them into their positions?
Reasons for fame, while interesting in themselves, only matter insofar as they determine the demographics of a celebrities following and how likely that demographic is to try the products they associate themselves with.
A small thought experiment now, say I run a restaurant and both Tom Hanks and Lebron James go on national television and declare it their favorite place to eat, what happens? I'd say starting the next day I'm going to be flooded with reservations despite the fact that the talents that make them famous have nothing to do with their ability to judge food.
Influencers are influencers because a large group of people act collectively to give them influence. The reasons why people give influencers such influence is varied but as a business owner all that really matters is how much that influence may be worth monetarily.
A small thought experiment now, say I run a restaurant and both Tom Hanks and Lebron James go on national television and declare it their favorite place to eat, what happens? I'd say starting the next day I'm going to be flooded with reservations despite the fact that the talents that make them famous have nothing to do with their ability to judge food.
Influencers are influencers because a large group of people act collectively to give them influence. The reasons why people give influencers such influence is varied but as a business owner all that really matters is how much that influence may be worth monetarily.
George Clooney has no qualifications as a barista or in coffee at all, yet Nescafe still use him to shill off their terrible, polluting coffee machines.
Why should I trust him on coffee machines any more than some hot girl in a bikini on Instagram?
Why should I trust him on coffee machines any more than some hot girl in a bikini on Instagram?
I think influencers are similar to Linkedin type thought leaders. Every time I log in there a new one pops out in my feed. Some are collecting awards from a thought leading organization which no one had heard of, while quoting some fake Sun Tzu proverb.
I think they are doing pretty well for themselves but they never seem to have anything interesting and original to say.
I think they are doing pretty well for themselves but they never seem to have anything interesting and original to say.
Lots of people went to Fyre Festival on @emrata’s say-so
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/28/arts/music/fyre-festiv...
But it doesn’t seem to have impacted her career any
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/28/arts/music/fyre-festiv...
But it doesn’t seem to have impacted her career any
In almost every field and industry, companies get requests like this go something along the same lines as mentioned in this post: "Hey, I have access to XYZ audience and we will be doing event ABC next month. It would be great to showcase/use your product and share that with the group. Your company and your product would be front and center for this group of people. All we need is your product for free."
In the end, all this is is just ad sales: I have alleged access to customers who want your product but don't know yet. I can share your company or product w/ them. They trust me. It will influence them to become your customer. Give me X."
And worse than that, many times those requests come with a price tag on top of providing the company's product or service for free.
And really it's no surprise given how social media works. Now any "idiot" can gain a following or an audience over some set of topics, or philosophy, or style, and gain a following that tunes. I say "idiot" less as a derogatory thing and more as a "every Joe or Jane" kind of thing who persists and is focused. Any following of people that tunes into something, anything, can often be cajoled into seeing or experiencing some mention or ad about an unrelated thing and that causes some %-age of that group to pay attention and some %-age of those that pay attention to potentially investigate further and possibly become paying customers of some company or product they didn't know about before. Certainly not rocket science and definitely not new.
What we're seeing here is merely a temporary fashion/trend that tends to focus heavily on luxury hotels and envious-appearing travel experiences.
In the end, all this is is just ad sales: I have alleged access to customers who want your product but don't know yet. I can share your company or product w/ them. They trust me. It will influence them to become your customer. Give me X."
And worse than that, many times those requests come with a price tag on top of providing the company's product or service for free.
And really it's no surprise given how social media works. Now any "idiot" can gain a following or an audience over some set of topics, or philosophy, or style, and gain a following that tunes. I say "idiot" less as a derogatory thing and more as a "every Joe or Jane" kind of thing who persists and is focused. Any following of people that tunes into something, anything, can often be cajoled into seeing or experiencing some mention or ad about an unrelated thing and that causes some %-age of that group to pay attention and some %-age of those that pay attention to potentially investigate further and possibly become paying customers of some company or product they didn't know about before. Certainly not rocket science and definitely not new.
What we're seeing here is merely a temporary fashion/trend that tends to focus heavily on luxury hotels and envious-appearing travel experiences.
I read a blog post a while ago from a camera tripod company that was talking about this.
Apparently a lot of people even sent in emails along the lines of "I don't usually use a tripod, but I totally would if you sent me one for free".
Of course, the post went on to say that they don't send them free tripods, because it would benefit nobody. The photography isn't going to magically start using a tripod because they got one for free, and the company wasn't going to get very good exposure from a photographer who has no experience shooting with a tripod.
Apparently a lot of people even sent in emails along the lines of "I don't usually use a tripod, but I totally would if you sent me one for free".
Of course, the post went on to say that they don't send them free tripods, because it would benefit nobody. The photography isn't going to magically start using a tripod because they got one for free, and the company wasn't going to get very good exposure from a photographer who has no experience shooting with a tripod.
I still see influencer advertising in a better light than a brand's own ads.
Influencers, especially the more popular ones, help inform consumers about a product/service/experience.
The only thing an influencer has is their followers and most influencers really are careful to not advertise products that they don't believe in themselves.
Influencers, especially the more popular ones, help inform consumers about a product/service/experience.
The only thing an influencer has is their followers and most influencers really are careful to not advertise products that they don't believe in themselves.
I explicitly don’t trust influencers because all they have are their followers. They often have no credentials or real achievements or original thoughts, so why should I trust them? Especially given that their entire goal is to get people to follow and like them?
I see this pattern a lot in coder twitter. The people with big follower counts that are always tweeting about their amazing coding and love of software development are not the ones building stuff. Even if their feelings are genuine, the excessive self promotion is quite ugly and makes me doubt everything they say. They are not people I want to trust or follow or listen to
I see this pattern a lot in coder twitter. The people with big follower counts that are always tweeting about their amazing coding and love of software development are not the ones building stuff. Even if their feelings are genuine, the excessive self promotion is quite ugly and makes me doubt everything they say. They are not people I want to trust or follow or listen to
Simply put, influencers who don't have credentials or achievements may not be the right influencers for your business.
Finding people who are well-respected in their space, actively create high-value content for their audiences, and can find ways to organically share a brands message are where the real value lies. Combined with trackable promotions, this can be very effective when executed properly.
Finding people who are well-respected in their space, actively create high-value content for their audiences, and can find ways to organically share a brands message are where the real value lies. Combined with trackable promotions, this can be very effective when executed properly.
The influencers get the product for free, otherwise they would not post. This is not people 'believing in a product', it is people using leverage to sell advertising for which they are paid with the product.
Which leads to this sort of thing:
https://www.facebook.com/WhiteMooseCafe/posts/20484067421065...
Which is harsh, but fair.
https://www.facebook.com/WhiteMooseCafe/posts/20484067421065...
Which is harsh, but fair.
That's some of the worst information redaction I've seen around. I might even think it's intentional
influencers are very selective with their 'reviews' and may chose to leave out things like data-privacy policies, when reviewing a company that provides you DNA analysis -- which should make you question all the information you get from such sources
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3EEmVfbKNs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3EEmVfbKNs
Almost all of these 'influencers' have fake followers. If they didn't buy them, the majority of their followers are auto following bots or people using bots to auto-follow to get more followers. Working inside this industry it's remarkable how little reach 99% of these people have.
Who wouldn't want to get luxury hotel stays for free, have brands send you free stuff, or get paid to promote something? It's an incredible deception and many are falling for it.
Who wouldn't want to get luxury hotel stays for free, have brands send you free stuff, or get paid to promote something? It's an incredible deception and many are falling for it.
From the article:
> "We have to filter out influencers who have basically bought bots. There's a lot of those these days."
> "We have to filter out influencers who have basically bought bots. There's a lot of those these days."
There are companies[0] that scan a user's following to try to determine if they are primarily bots, dead accounts, occasional users, or active.
[0] http://blog.fohr.co/post/2017/9/20/searching-by-verified-aut...
[0] http://blog.fohr.co/post/2017/9/20/searching-by-verified-aut...
Wow, 10% of unsolicited requests are worth looking at? That seems remarkably high.
I think the implication is that 90% of the unsolicited requests are obviously garbage and are immediately ignored. The remaining 10% may still be mostly worthless, but it at least takes some investigation to identify them as such.
The fact that they look at more than 0% virtually guarantees the flood of requests will continue.
If they really didnt want to be inundated with these requests, they only need to cease acting on all of them until the message gets out.
If they really didnt want to be inundated with these requests, they only need to cease acting on all of them until the message gets out.
The stats cited in the article fell short of my definition inundation.
In "the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" there is a story about a society that shipped out all its useless members (hairdressers and telephone sanitizers) off planet. If Douglas Adams was writing the book now he may have replaced sanitizers with influencers.
In "the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" there is a story about a society that shipped out all its useless members (hairdressers and telephone sanitizers) off planet.
Stanford is doing that with their new Redwood City "campus", an office park five miles from the main campus. No professors. No students. No researchers. No labs. All administrators. "Stanford units that will have at least some employees at Stanford Redwood City include Business Affairs; Land, Buildings and Real Estate; School of Medicine administration; Office of Development; University Human Resources; University Libraries; Office of the Vice Provost for Teaching and Learning; and Residential & Dining Enterprises."
"The first phase of construction at Stanford Redwood City will include four office buildings, indoor and outdoor dining areas and plazas, a child care center, a glass-atrium fitness center, a parking garage, a landscaped greenway, a 2.4-acre park and a sustainable central energy facility."
It's Stanford's version of a luxury center for influencers.
(As a Stanford alum, I consider this embarrassing.)
[1] https://redwoodcity.stanford.edu/
Stanford is doing that with their new Redwood City "campus", an office park five miles from the main campus. No professors. No students. No researchers. No labs. All administrators. "Stanford units that will have at least some employees at Stanford Redwood City include Business Affairs; Land, Buildings and Real Estate; School of Medicine administration; Office of Development; University Human Resources; University Libraries; Office of the Vice Provost for Teaching and Learning; and Residential & Dining Enterprises."
"The first phase of construction at Stanford Redwood City will include four office buildings, indoor and outdoor dining areas and plazas, a child care center, a glass-atrium fitness center, a parking garage, a landscaped greenway, a 2.4-acre park and a sustainable central energy facility."
It's Stanford's version of a luxury center for influencers.
(As a Stanford alum, I consider this embarrassing.)
[1] https://redwoodcity.stanford.edu/
You could probably fire half of those people and no one would actually notice.
Genuine question--what would make this not embarrassing for you? Is it the separation from the main campus? How they are segmenting orgs?
It's the sheer number of administrators. Stanford has only 1,761 instructional employees, of which 834 are tenured faculty. The Redwood City facility will have 2,700 administrative employees in the first phase alone.
Maybe I'm not surprised by this because I work in higher ed, but that ratio of administrative staff vs faculty is not really anything to write home about. I work at a top 10 business school, and our staff/teaching ratio is about 5/1, and at schools like HBS or INSEAD in France, the ratio skews quite a bit higher.
> The story was that they would build three Ark ships. Into the A ship would go all the leaders, scientists and other high achievers. The C ship would contain all the people who made things and did things, and the B ark would hold everyone else, such as hairdressers and telephone sanitisers. They sent the B ship off first, but of course the other two-thirds of the population stayed on the planet and lived full, rich and happy lives until they were all wiped out by a virulent disease contracted from a dirty telephone.
> The ship was filled with [..] telephone sanitisers, account executives, hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives and management consultants. [1]
Hmm, close enough.
[1] http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Golgafrinchan_Ark_Fleet_Sh...
Hmm, close enough.
[1] http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Golgafrinchan_Ark_Fleet_Sh...
I think you vastly underestimate "influencers". Just replace that term with advertisers, because that's exactly what it is. Everyone is looking for the new advertising paradigm? You're looking at it. People are ACTIVELY following these people, and enjoying it.
> I think you vastly underestimate "influencers". Just replace that term with advertisers
I think you are wrong, they are more rock stars or sports celebrities.
I think you are wrong, they are more rock stars or sports celebrities.
Both rock stars and sports stars have some underlying talent/reason that they have fans. What makes these “influencers” so influential? I think this is finally my “I’m getting too old” moment.
Influencers are like second-rate Kardashians: famous for being famous.
I have a relative doing something with restaurants. Made some iOS app/ website and put pictures, 1-2 line reviews there and on sites like FB, instagram etc. With about couple of months of effort, he was able to mooch off 1000s of restaurant meals along with dozen of friends and family members. His total vocabulary about food is 'amazing', 'awesome', 'tasty', 'yummy' when using with spellcheck of course.
I have a relative doing something with restaurants. Made some iOS app/ website and put pictures, 1-2 line reviews there and on sites like FB, instagram etc. With about couple of months of effort, he was able to mooch off 1000s of restaurant meals along with dozen of friends and family members. His total vocabulary about food is 'amazing', 'awesome', 'tasty', 'yummy' when using with spellcheck of course.
I don't quite follow your point.
Except the lack of telephone sanitizers led to the downfall of the Golgafrinchans, whereas the loss of blogger wannabes from a society would not have provided such a plot point.
I use Instagram and other social media. But I just don't get how this works. Perhaps someone can give me and others an overview. I only see the posts from my friends, so how would posts from these "influencers" influence me or other's like me? Why would I follow some random person I don't even know? Really, I'm looking for some enlightenment here. I assume that I'm not the only one.
> I only see the posts from my friends, so how would posts from these "influencers" influence me or other's like me? Why would I follow some random person I don't even know?
Everyone else is busy following other people that they don't know. Why? I dunno, ask them.
But keep in mind, other words for "influencer" would be "blogger", "streamer", "content producer". Have you never found a cool channel on Youtube that has enjoyable content? Maybe humour, or crafts, or lets play walkthroughs of video games? Boom, those are influencers. We're all spending time watching other people (be it a streamer on Twitch or a movie start in a blockbuster movie), and brands are willing to pay money to ensure we see their products while we do it.
My partner is learning how to make soap (surprisingly interesting hobby) so she follows a number of different soapmakers on social media to learn more about their recipes, tips and tricks, see cool designs. And also, if one of those soapmakers she respects strongly recommends some range of fragrance oils, or whatever, she's likely to consider them closely when she buys some. Think maybe a craft supply company would be willing to throw some money (or at least free supplies) at someone who will recommend them?
There's nothing new here; celebrity endorsements date back to ancient Rome if not even earlier; gladiators were paid to endorse consumer products. If people will watch it, someone else will pay to advertise in the background. :)
Everyone else is busy following other people that they don't know. Why? I dunno, ask them.
But keep in mind, other words for "influencer" would be "blogger", "streamer", "content producer". Have you never found a cool channel on Youtube that has enjoyable content? Maybe humour, or crafts, or lets play walkthroughs of video games? Boom, those are influencers. We're all spending time watching other people (be it a streamer on Twitch or a movie start in a blockbuster movie), and brands are willing to pay money to ensure we see their products while we do it.
My partner is learning how to make soap (surprisingly interesting hobby) so she follows a number of different soapmakers on social media to learn more about their recipes, tips and tricks, see cool designs. And also, if one of those soapmakers she respects strongly recommends some range of fragrance oils, or whatever, she's likely to consider them closely when she buys some. Think maybe a craft supply company would be willing to throw some money (or at least free supplies) at someone who will recommend them?
There's nothing new here; celebrity endorsements date back to ancient Rome if not even earlier; gladiators were paid to endorse consumer products. If people will watch it, someone else will pay to advertise in the background. :)
>Have you never found a cool channel on Youtube that has enjoyable content?
I subscribe to a dozen Youtube channels - mostly educational - not just "cool". My question/point was about Instagram. Not much educational value from a photo of a girl in a bikini at a pool ;)
I subscribe to a dozen Youtube channels - mostly educational - not just "cool". My question/point was about Instagram. Not much educational value from a photo of a girl in a bikini at a pool ;)
> I subscribe to a dozen Youtube channels - mostly educational
Alright, but obviously the most popular channels on Youtube are entertainment not educational, so you understand that most people are using these mediums in a way that's quite different to you, right?
Any even those "educational" channels are being run by what a marketing exec would think of as an influencer. Just because you're watching some guy build a coffee table out of reclaimed lumber (or whatever) doesn't mean someone isn't willing to pay money to make sure it's being done with a specific brand of power tools, in case you decide to buy one just like you saw in the video.
> Not much educational value from a photo of a girl in a bikini at a pool
My partner follows a number of Instagram accounts devoted to specific hobbies she has, such as soapmaking, or animal rescue/wildlife rehabilitation. Instagram is about way, way more than just "girls in bikinis". But again! Many of the people looking at girls in bikinis on Instagram are women wishing they looked like that; if the model posts about how some (probably fraudulent) supplement helped her, you don't think that'll cause a direct boost in sales?
Anything with eyeballs looking at it is worth slapping an ad on. And given how many people are looking at Instagram every moment of every day, obviously it qualifies. If it's not a great platform for you, that's fine (I don't even have the app installed, so I'm totally in agreement), but given Instagram is apparently well over 500m MAUs, that says more about us than Instagram. :)
Alright, but obviously the most popular channels on Youtube are entertainment not educational, so you understand that most people are using these mediums in a way that's quite different to you, right?
Any even those "educational" channels are being run by what a marketing exec would think of as an influencer. Just because you're watching some guy build a coffee table out of reclaimed lumber (or whatever) doesn't mean someone isn't willing to pay money to make sure it's being done with a specific brand of power tools, in case you decide to buy one just like you saw in the video.
> Not much educational value from a photo of a girl in a bikini at a pool
My partner follows a number of Instagram accounts devoted to specific hobbies she has, such as soapmaking, or animal rescue/wildlife rehabilitation. Instagram is about way, way more than just "girls in bikinis". But again! Many of the people looking at girls in bikinis on Instagram are women wishing they looked like that; if the model posts about how some (probably fraudulent) supplement helped her, you don't think that'll cause a direct boost in sales?
Anything with eyeballs looking at it is worth slapping an ad on. And given how many people are looking at Instagram every moment of every day, obviously it qualifies. If it's not a great platform for you, that's fine (I don't even have the app installed, so I'm totally in agreement), but given Instagram is apparently well over 500m MAUs, that says more about us than Instagram. :)
I understand all that. I'm still missing the part about how this random stranger would get on my feed.
Because they're not a "random stranger", they're a content producer you chose to follow because you enjoy the content. It may not be the kind of content you personally like, but so what?
You've already said you follow some content creators, so you're familiar with the mechanism. What's left to understand?
You've already said you follow some content creators, so you're familiar with the mechanism. What's left to understand?
Many people browse the Explore tab more than their home feed. Even if they don't follow these people, they still may see the post and even without "liking" it it will up the posts "impressions" (business accounts can see these stats). Brands buy ads for exactly this reason. Influencers are the same.
I'm in the same boat, but what I've found from talking with many people is that they use Instagram to discover places and get an inside look, with what they see on Instagram determining whether they go or not. This leads to reviews on Google like "they run a really good Instagram, but things don't measure up in-person" (I saw this exact review the other day).
Ha. I just checked into a Marriott about an hour ago.
In the lobby, there was a giant touchscreen and one of the icons was "social media".
I tapped it, and it said "Our Instagram account is currently offline."
In the lobby, there was a giant touchscreen and one of the icons was "social media".
I tapped it, and it said "Our Instagram account is currently offline."
I chuckle to myself every time I see a superfluous piece of technology like this being out of service. Then, I realise the probable reality is that no one cares. All they care about is that the core business is still operating (for better or worse).
I've never managed to get free WiFi properly working on a plane or train.
I've never managed to get free WiFi properly working on a plane or train.
Sounds like they just learned a good lesson about not trusting marketing. ;)
Quick question: Do you own any Apple or similar big-brand products? If so, why?
Six months ago, I bought a Penny Skateboard because I discovered they were a "thing", thanks to Casey Neistat's videos. I don't even particularly like that YouTuber, but find his "content" fascinating and videos a pleasant way to burn time.
I don't aspire to be like Casey Neistat in most ways - I'm not even interested in making YouTube videos. First class flights don't intrigue me, because I handle economy just fine and like flying in any form. If I saw him in the street, I'd probably say hi but I wouldn't ask for a selfie or shoutout.
So why did I buy a Penny board - something one might associate as only being for children (some people feel this way about bicycles too) - why was I "influenced"? Because I discovered that there exists a third option to skateboards and longboards (both of which don't really enamour me because the former are too noisy and the latter are too large). Penny boards, on the other hand appear inoffensive but are challenging and thus rewarding to learn. Plus, they're not expensive - so I figured, why not give it a go and see if I can learn a new balance-skill especially since it's not something everyone can manage?
Next, I saw a pre-Christmas sale, said "yolo" and just went for it.
I'm glad I did go for it because not only have I learned something that some people will never be able to learn, but I'm still continuing to improve more than 100 hours later while others my age decide to stay on their couches, or almost worse: sign up to boot camp-style ongoing gym memberships so they can hit the meat market on a Saturday night or beach weekend.
Like with any business, it's a numbers game. You might not feel directly influenced and you very well may not be, but most people still will have tried Coca-Cola at least once in their lives.
Six months ago, I bought a Penny Skateboard because I discovered they were a "thing", thanks to Casey Neistat's videos. I don't even particularly like that YouTuber, but find his "content" fascinating and videos a pleasant way to burn time.
I don't aspire to be like Casey Neistat in most ways - I'm not even interested in making YouTube videos. First class flights don't intrigue me, because I handle economy just fine and like flying in any form. If I saw him in the street, I'd probably say hi but I wouldn't ask for a selfie or shoutout.
So why did I buy a Penny board - something one might associate as only being for children (some people feel this way about bicycles too) - why was I "influenced"? Because I discovered that there exists a third option to skateboards and longboards (both of which don't really enamour me because the former are too noisy and the latter are too large). Penny boards, on the other hand appear inoffensive but are challenging and thus rewarding to learn. Plus, they're not expensive - so I figured, why not give it a go and see if I can learn a new balance-skill especially since it's not something everyone can manage?
Next, I saw a pre-Christmas sale, said "yolo" and just went for it.
I'm glad I did go for it because not only have I learned something that some people will never be able to learn, but I'm still continuing to improve more than 100 hours later while others my age decide to stay on their couches, or almost worse: sign up to boot camp-style ongoing gym memberships so they can hit the meat market on a Saturday night or beach weekend.
Like with any business, it's a numbers game. You might not feel directly influenced and you very well may not be, but most people still will have tried Coca-Cola at least once in their lives.
It's the same way any other marketing material may influence you to make a purchase. A lot of online influencer marketing is recommendation-based: "I like this product, so you should buy it, too." Think of it similar to celebrity endorsements in traditional media. For many Millennials and Gen Z who follow these influencers, they are like celebrities (but usually on a smaller, niche-scale).
Central to all of the posts in the article is semi nudity, or at least showcasing the female body. That should give you some hints.
Think of instagram as an entertainment platform rather than a social network. Yougo there to kill time in the waiting room, or for some light entertainment after turning off the lights and before falling asleep.
Your friends aren’t interesting enough for that. So you follow some professional entertainers, influencers.
And that’s it. Now you can be marketed to.
Your friends aren’t interesting enough for that. So you follow some professional entertainers, influencers.
And that’s it. Now you can be marketed to.
People want an authority to tell them how to value things, and they choose this authority not based on facts or results, they choose it because it seems authoritative and familiar.
-- Michael Burry (The Big Short)
-- Michael Burry (The Big Short)
I think this goes along with the (perhaps perceived) increase in self-centeredness in society.
Or just a general idea of mooching off of someone for free for very little in return. Apparently, it’s a bit of a con with most influencers, but for a select few who actually do move the dial.
This is the entire advertising industry in a nutshell, and that funds Google.
> and that funds Google.
... and the atlantic and most newspapers, media companies and even this site. Welcome to the consumer economy where trying to "influence" consumers to consume is the name of the game.
Advertising is at the heart of everything in our society from technology to politics to news. We don't even realize it most of the time because it's all around us like air.
... and the atlantic and most newspapers, media companies and even this site. Welcome to the consumer economy where trying to "influence" consumers to consume is the name of the game.
Advertising is at the heart of everything in our society from technology to politics to news. We don't even realize it most of the time because it's all around us like air.
I think there needs to be some new word for this ill. Advertising is only necessary because of the breakdown of social trust that comes with fungible living in this individualized, modern world of ours. I think this nebulous ill of "advertising" extends far beyond ad tech, ad agencies, and media and right into the structure of society and the human condition itself.
What does an increase in self centredness in society mean? Did people in the past do everything for the benefit of society somehow
It means that we live in an age were basic needs (for most) are taken care of with very little work. In the past you needed to rely heavily on the community for survival (food & protection from others)
Maybe I could become a chip industry influencer. Especially if I could wear a suitably chic factory floor bunny suit.
#metrology is awesome! #quadruplepatterning #FinFETastic!
I'm really happy that I don't work on consumer products.
I'm really happy that I don't work on consumer products.
a bunny suit with a tuxedo print would really help your brand.
Every reputable travel publication/blog I know of have strict editorial policies against accepting freebies/discounts/gifts in exchange for reviews/coverage.
Those so-called "influencers" aren't really about serving their audience -- they strike me as just a scammy way to travel "for free".
Those so-called "influencers" aren't really about serving their audience -- they strike me as just a scammy way to travel "for free".
I think you misunderstand the situation. Influencers are offering ad space, not reviews. There's no promise of impartiality.
Also, those "reputable magazines" still sell ads to the companies they cover. There's zero difference here.
> Those so-called "influencers" aren't really about serving their audience
They're about serving their customers, ie, the brands. Some do a great job; others do not. And others, as discussed in the article, aren't even trying to provide marketing services and are just trying to scam a free hotel stay. Similarly, some ad networks aren't even trying to provide value to clients and are just trying to soak up advertising dollars, but that doesn't mean all advertising is a scam.
Also, those "reputable magazines" still sell ads to the companies they cover. There's zero difference here.
> Those so-called "influencers" aren't really about serving their audience
They're about serving their customers, ie, the brands. Some do a great job; others do not. And others, as discussed in the article, aren't even trying to provide marketing services and are just trying to scam a free hotel stay. Similarly, some ad networks aren't even trying to provide value to clients and are just trying to soak up advertising dollars, but that doesn't mean all advertising is a scam.
Influencers don’t serve reviews, they serve ads. There’s no editorial conflict here at all: of course they’re biased.
The "influencers" reek of "I'm young, female, and attractive, and therefore i am worthy of attention and lavish gifts."
Thing is, it works.
Thing is, it works.
To be fair on them, despite what their instagrams show it is a lot of work. My girlfriend follows Alexis Ren and showed me her workout routine, it's easily 3 hours a day. Which combined with reaching out to brands, dealing with advertisers, scheduling, photoshoots etc I could easily see it being a full time job. Plus the constant dieting on top of all that which I can't remember the details of, but I know is hugely restrictive: no eating after 5pm and zero alcohol for example.
For sure a lot of them are pretty low effort and just do it as a side job, but I don't think it's as simple as just being attractive and I don't think a lot of them are as entitled as they seem.
For sure a lot of them are pretty low effort and just do it as a side job, but I don't think it's as simple as just being attractive and I don't think a lot of them are as entitled as they seem.
It seems a lot like managing your own modeling and PR business. I am not by any means saying that all influencers are attractive (or that it’s the source of their popularity when they are!) but the line between being an influencer and an “instagram model” seems very wide and grey.
It's a term that I only see the media industry using.
It's all cut from the same cloth but at the end of the day, advertising works.
It's all cut from the same cloth but at the end of the day, advertising works.
Apparently for many, it works in exactly the way you would think - see http://tagthesponsor.com/
> Every reputable travel publication/blog I know of have strict editorial policies against accepting freebies/discounts/gifts in exchange for reviews/coverage.
We must move in separate travel worlds. Within bicycle touring, travelers with established blogs very often accept free stuff, because this hobby requires a great deal of gear (and gear replacement) that isn't cheap. But this usually doesn't affect their reputability in the eyes of the community, especially when they review some of this gear negatively and note how it broke on the road.
We must move in separate travel worlds. Within bicycle touring, travelers with established blogs very often accept free stuff, because this hobby requires a great deal of gear (and gear replacement) that isn't cheap. But this usually doesn't affect their reputability in the eyes of the community, especially when they review some of this gear negatively and note how it broke on the road.
To be fair, the parent commenter was vague about what "strict editorial policies" meant.
Tech publications receive free stuff all the time too.
And for people like Casey Neistat - people send stuff to him unsolicited.
Tech publications receive free stuff all the time too.
And for people like Casey Neistat - people send stuff to him unsolicited.
From another angle, I wonder why their readers trust the influencers when they are well-known to be bought and paid for.
Because the quality of the product or experience is irrelevant. The goal is to imitate the influencer, and to thereby also become someone who people want to imitate.
If I can pattern myself 90% after someone that other people are imitating, those other people are virtually already 90% imitating me anyway, they just don't know it yet. If I can get them to remember my name, and a significant chunk to think that my 10% difference is in qualities where I'm superior to the person I'm imitating, I've at least carved out a niche, but I maybe on the road to completely replacing them.
Of course on a very small scale, this could just be amongst people at my workplace, or who go to my college.
If I can pattern myself 90% after someone that other people are imitating, those other people are virtually already 90% imitating me anyway, they just don't know it yet. If I can get them to remember my name, and a significant chunk to think that my 10% difference is in qualities where I'm superior to the person I'm imitating, I've at least carved out a niche, but I maybe on the road to completely replacing them.
Of course on a very small scale, this could just be amongst people at my workplace, or who go to my college.
Very insightful; thanks.
Some influencers take this issue head-on because they know their followers will actually be buying and evaluating the stuff they are reviewing. So they want to build trust because they know it'll be obvious if they are shilling. Newspaper columnists faced this question long before the internet, and some did handle it really well.
> Every reputable travel publication/blog I know of have strict editorial policies against accepting freebies/discounts/gifts in exchange for reviews/coverage.
Sure, for the writers in order to maintain an illusion of objectivity. But none of them have policies on the publication/company taking ad money in exchange for positive reviews.
> Those so-called "influencers" aren't really about serving their audience -- they strike me as just a scammy way to travel "for free".
Nobody "serves" the audience. You develop an audience so that the audience can serve you. Also, it isn't "scammy". It's business and it's been going on long before social media.
Do you think tv execs put Bud Light commercials during football games because they love horribly watered down beer? Do you think X athlete chooses Nike over Adidas or vice versa because one treats their chinese slave laborers better? Do you really think matthew mcconaughey thinks lincolns are the best cars? Do you think steven spielberg or other directors use product placement in their films because they believe in all those products? Do you think newspapers run rolex ads in their papers because they really believe it's worthless to spend money on rolex?
No. The answer is the all these influencers push products that pay them the most. You and I would do the same if we had a following.
Sure, for the writers in order to maintain an illusion of objectivity. But none of them have policies on the publication/company taking ad money in exchange for positive reviews.
> Those so-called "influencers" aren't really about serving their audience -- they strike me as just a scammy way to travel "for free".
Nobody "serves" the audience. You develop an audience so that the audience can serve you. Also, it isn't "scammy". It's business and it's been going on long before social media.
Do you think tv execs put Bud Light commercials during football games because they love horribly watered down beer? Do you think X athlete chooses Nike over Adidas or vice versa because one treats their chinese slave laborers better? Do you really think matthew mcconaughey thinks lincolns are the best cars? Do you think steven spielberg or other directors use product placement in their films because they believe in all those products? Do you think newspapers run rolex ads in their papers because they really believe it's worthless to spend money on rolex?
No. The answer is the all these influencers push products that pay them the most. You and I would do the same if we had a following.
This sounds like a touch too much protestation to be coincidental...
This is such a downer on holidays, when you want to rest at luxury place, but some young people ruin it for you with their obnoxious behavior. I hope there will be hotels that ban such Instagram addicts from premises.
This was not my experience with my last holiday. But then again, I did not go for luxury.
My GF has 18000 followers and gas worked hard for her brand to be meaningful as an influencer. She isnt just posting a picture sitting next to the pool. As a result she gets a number of things comped at hotels and restaurants, sometimes without even asking.
Yup. My wife has only 7000 and still gets an annoying amount of emails (at least for a busy mom of 2) from brands wanting to send her product for "collabs". Hotel comps would be nice!
> sometimes without even asking.
How do they know who she is then?
How do they know who she is then?
I believe a number of brands use software to monitor social channels for tags/locations related to their brand. This happens, of course, in near realtime and then it becomes fairly simple to identify them and start manufacturing instagrammable circumstances - comp'd bottle of wine, pretty amenities sent up to the room, etc.
She tags the restaurant or hotel while we are there. Then a $0 check will appear with thanks from the manager on duty.
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Make them pay upfront for the hotel and then if they can directly attribute 25 guest stays in the future they can a refund. Problem somewhat solved :)
Influencers... Probably the same kind of people who reviews Amazon product for free and ends their review with "I've written this review with my own unbiased opinion". We all know it's biased. Thanks but no thanks.
Ironically everyone of those followers wants to travel to that special unknown destination, only after somebody with one million followers posts about it.
Ironically everyone of those followers wants to travel to that special unknown destination, only after somebody with one million followers posts about it.
The only answer to these people should be "literally, not figuratively, go fuck yourself"
This phenomenon is well known among boro glass artists, or artists in general. Paying with 'exposure'. People frequently contact us on Instagram, asking for free merchandise, ostensibly to review. If they have 20,000 followers, that may be worth it... for 50,000, it probably is. Often, however, it someone with no significant following who therefore has little to offer. Businesses similarly ask for our time to be donated or traded when we do public demonstrations, though typically they would pay other entertainers such as musicians or comedians.
This definitely is not limited to my niche of glass artists. There's a twitter account about the wider world of people who think artists have vast advertising budgets and lots of free time: https://mobile.twitter.com/forexposure_txt
I think these hotels are in a similar spot - it may be worthwhile advertising, or it may be a worthless request.
This definitely is not limited to my niche of glass artists. There's a twitter account about the wider world of people who think artists have vast advertising budgets and lots of free time: https://mobile.twitter.com/forexposure_txt
I think these hotels are in a similar spot - it may be worthwhile advertising, or it may be a worthless request.
I really think theres an opportunity for a startup here, some intermediary between the influencers and the clients (hotels, brands etc).
I think this will be another huge market for facebook when they eventually solve this. Proper tracking of influencer posts, verification of audience demographics, filtering out of time wasters would solve a lot of these issues.
I think this will be another huge market for facebook when they eventually solve this. Proper tracking of influencer posts, verification of audience demographics, filtering out of time wasters would solve a lot of these issues.
I've seen multiple successful (ish) startups doing this already
So, Klout?
Sounds to me like this is a big opportunity for an intermediary to connect useful social media influencers with various brands.
Ive thought about this idea. You could potentially make an influencer marketplace that brands could search through to find a specific influencer that matches the demographic theyre looking to target.
funny thing is, there are also tons of influencer marketplaces and agencies, it's a space with incredibly low barrier to entry. Thing about the marketplace is, there is little incentive on either side for the influencers or clients not to skip over the marketplace altogether after using it for window shopping
This sounds like Marketing.
https://fohr.co does this and is probably one of the first to do so (they started in ~2014, I think).
FameBit (https://famebit.com) – acquired by YouTube
Plenty of sites like popsugar already do this.
That was basically one of my good friend’s wife’s job.
That was basically one of my good friend’s wife’s job.
I am very loosely acquainted with someone working on exactly this: https://www.joinstatus.com
I’m sure there are others.
I’m sure there are others.
The one I've heard about is https://influential.co - they're definitely out there
Your very late to the game already but it's probably not too late to do something in that area.
What hypothetical scenario do you guys think could possibly result in the termination of this trend? I think it would be interesting to figure out what could cause social media to die out in the future.
I can think of two directions we could go from where we are - perhaps Authorative Media: a return to the government telling us everything we need to know? Very dark, but a "government influencer" could still work..
And perhaps more positive - Truthful Media: Information generated by people, in the 'open source' way that you can fully trust. Hard to believe, but almost necessary. A blockchain of real information sources and trusted information processors (aka influencers), who give opinions that can be traced back to facts.
I think that perhaps glamour and fantasy will always win out - reality is boring and human nature wont get us to choose facts when fantasy gets our attention much more
And perhaps more positive - Truthful Media: Information generated by people, in the 'open source' way that you can fully trust. Hard to believe, but almost necessary. A blockchain of real information sources and trusted information processors (aka influencers), who give opinions that can be traced back to facts.
I think that perhaps glamour and fantasy will always win out - reality is boring and human nature wont get us to choose facts when fantasy gets our attention much more
Another worse case scenario for the future of social media could be one outlined in the movie The Circle with Tom Hanks and Emma Watson. Soon, the "influencers" will be available live, all the time. If you have no job prospects or useful skills, why not just sell your privacy for brand promotion? https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4287320/
A recession? I know we didn't have the same type of media now as in 2008 but I remember the huge fall-off in similarish influencers at the time (mostly magazine based).
I personally have 100,000 people following me on YouTube. My daughter at one point had over 100k people following her on Instagram.
It's much more difficult to get subscribers than followers on Instagram. In addition, a lot of followers are typically on Instagram just to creep on young women and provide no monetary value except for just being another creep in their followers.
Basically, 100k followers on Instagram is a joke and is about equivalent to 25k subscribers on YouTube, only it earns less cash.
It's much more difficult to get subscribers than followers on Instagram. In addition, a lot of followers are typically on Instagram just to creep on young women and provide no monetary value except for just being another creep in their followers.
Basically, 100k followers on Instagram is a joke and is about equivalent to 25k subscribers on YouTube, only it earns less cash.
I have never had the self-{confidence,absorption,righteousness,worth} to think that I could "influence" people in such a way.
"Influencer". From browsing the influencers in the article, the formula appears to be a) expensive clothes b) expensive hotels c) trailing photographer, d) regurgitation of corny "I am so cool" lines like "It takes cool people to do epic shit", "No one here gives a fuck".
Do you think we could design an AI, maybe GANs and caption generation, to generate influencers like these? The hotels could pay the AI makers to use their images, and would solve their problem of actually having to host them.
Do you think we could design an AI, maybe GANs and caption generation, to generate influencers like these? The hotels could pay the AI makers to use their images, and would solve their problem of actually having to host them.
Believe it or not, really realistic looking computer generated Instagram influencers already exist.
Example: https://www.instagram.com/lilmiquela/ - 1.2m followers
Example: https://www.instagram.com/lilmiquela/ - 1.2m followers
It's being done: https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/23/the-makers-of-the-virtual-...
(Predicted in the Gibson novel Idoru, and no doubt elsewhere)
(Predicted in the Gibson novel Idoru, and no doubt elsewhere)
I think using AI itself sound tech influencer trend. This can be a customized old-school bullshit generator e.g.
http://www.bullshitgenerator.com/
http://www.bullshitgenerator.com/
> "The vast majority of cold-call approaches are really badly written"
I think he means, "poorly written".
I think he means, "poorly written".
Badly and poorly are synonyms.
Yes, of course. However, "badly written" is poor grammar.
No it's not. They're equally correct.
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By the time we pivot to EVs the travel industry will be sure to prevent any dip in CO2 emissions thanks to social media and its hoardes of mindless consumers.
Second tier influencers (100k followers) paying expensive hotels and private plane trips of first tier influences (1 mil followers), so that they can appear on their feeds, and gain new followers.