Swisscom to discontinue MMS service(swisscom.ch)
swisscom.ch
Swisscom to discontinue MMS service
https://www.swisscom.ch/en/residential/help/mobile/mms.html
163 comments
I'm from Switzerland and don't use WhatsApp because of Facebook. So I have to contact with some people just over SMS/MMS.
Fax them a complaint.
I'm in the US and don't use WhatsApp because of Facebook.
I use SMS, Signal and iMessage.
I use SMS, Signal and iMessage.
Signal or threema are no options for you?
Had never heard of threema, so had to look it up. Looks interesting, a little like ICQ it seems..
Have always wondered if ICQ should make a comeback, so good to see something like it exists.
Have always wondered if ICQ should make a comeback, so good to see something like it exists.
I have Threema and Signal, but not all other persons.
Most friends and family are on Threema. On work we use Signal as group chat.
Signal
It’s worth noting that MMS is also how group messages are sent (SMS is 1:1 only).
> The most popular messenger app in Switzerland and worldwide is WhatsApp. However, we do not recommend WhatsApp or Telegram for security reasons (problematic encryption and non-transparent data protection guidelines).
But compared to MMS...
> The most popular messenger app in Switzerland and worldwide is WhatsApp. However, we do not recommend WhatsApp or Telegram for security reasons (problematic encryption and non-transparent data protection guidelines).
But compared to MMS...
MMS is also used by Apple iPhone devices when sending group messages, images and media to non-Apple users. This functionality will now probably break, especially since Apple refuses to implement RCS protocol which would make cross-phone brand messaging comparable to iMessage itself.
> Apple refuses to implement RCS protocol…
And rightfully so. Apple supporting it won’t help the folks in Switzerland because Swisscom don’t support it. And why would they? They are clearly simplifying (cost saving) the stack. RCS is a poorly designed protocol with little to no carrier support outside of the US.
And rightfully so. Apple supporting it won’t help the folks in Switzerland because Swisscom don’t support it. And why would they? They are clearly simplifying (cost saving) the stack. RCS is a poorly designed protocol with little to no carrier support outside of the US.
Swisscom does support RCS
https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Telephony-Knowledge-Base/RC...
https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Telephony-Knowledge-Base/RC...
Chicken meet egg.
I’d say not. Bad protocol that cost the carriers to use and no customer wants to pay for meet commercial reality would be more accurate.
How about switching to one or more among Telegram, WhatsApp, Messenger etc? Basically it's what everybody does in Europe. I'm getting SMSes only from banks, credit card companies and (sadly) 2FA. MMS, maybe one in the last 20 years because they used to be insanely expensive.
Yeah, no end-to-end encryption and all that. But how many 0-days have been discovered in MMS?
WhatsApp is starting to look like a TLA backdoor in comparison.
WhatsApp is starting to look like a TLA backdoor in comparison.
MMS is a vehicle into your phone's media decoding stack, and there have definitely been vulnerabilities demonstrated using MMS as the delivery mechanism (eg,https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2020/07/mms-exploit-p...)
>But how many 0-days have been discovered in MMS? WhatsApp is starting to look like a TLA backdoor in comparison.
Your comparison doesn't make sense. MMS has no need for 0-days as it's a basic communication protocol that has zero security to begin with.
That's like saying "but how many 0-days does TCP-IP have?"
Your comparison doesn't make sense. MMS has no need for 0-days as it's a basic communication protocol that has zero security to begin with.
That's like saying "but how many 0-days does TCP-IP have?"
Zero security in what sense?
Is confidentiality of your messages the only thing you care about?
Even that you won't get to keep once hit by a WhatsApp vulnerability.
Is confidentiality of your messages the only thing you care about?
Even that you won't get to keep once hit by a WhatsApp vulnerability.
>once hit by a WhatsApp vulnerability
Meh, and once you get hit by a car, you will die. But what are the realistic odds of that happening?
You can also get hit by a an IOS or Android RCE 0-day, so you might as well give up using a smartphone if you feel the security risk is that high. Also, many of those RCE exploits used MMS for payload delivery, so your point of MMS shielding you from exploits is moot.
In the end, for most consumers, it's a matter of looking at the convenience to risk ratio, and MMS is neither very convenient nor terribly secure.
Meh, and once you get hit by a car, you will die. But what are the realistic odds of that happening?
You can also get hit by a an IOS or Android RCE 0-day, so you might as well give up using a smartphone if you feel the security risk is that high. Also, many of those RCE exploits used MMS for payload delivery, so your point of MMS shielding you from exploits is moot.
In the end, for most consumers, it's a matter of looking at the convenience to risk ratio, and MMS is neither very convenient nor terribly secure.
Dude, you are completely missing the point.
All I am saying is that replacing a simple and well tested system with a complex and barely evaluated system is bad for security.
And for the record, ALMOST ALL recent high profile hacks were related to WhatsApp.
All I am saying is that replacing a simple and well tested system with a complex and barely evaluated system is bad for security.
And for the record, ALMOST ALL recent high profile hacks were related to WhatsApp.
>All I am saying is that replacing a simple and well tested system with a complex and barely evaluated system is bad for security.
1) Nobody is replacing MMS with WhatApp for you, you are free to use whatever alternative fits your needs best.
2) A system which almost nobody used because it was expensive to use in the beginning, insecure by today's standards, and doesn't serve the present day needs of consumers making it severely outdated, which is why phone users migrated in droves to alternatives like WhatsApp many years ago.
If carriers and the 3GPP consortium wanted to keep MMS relevant, then they should have updated it to support encryption and higher definition multi-media, and carriers shouldn't have charged through the nose for the service, but the SW industry disrupted the telecom industry with much higher quality messaging apps that were also free, which deprecated carriers to be just dumb data pipes and made SMS/MMS mostly obsolete.
>And for the record, ALMOST ALL recent high profile hacks were related to WhatsApp.
That's needlessly exaggerating without posting any sources for such grave claims. Which "recent high profile whatsapp hacks"?
1) Nobody is replacing MMS with WhatApp for you, you are free to use whatever alternative fits your needs best.
2) A system which almost nobody used because it was expensive to use in the beginning, insecure by today's standards, and doesn't serve the present day needs of consumers making it severely outdated, which is why phone users migrated in droves to alternatives like WhatsApp many years ago.
If carriers and the 3GPP consortium wanted to keep MMS relevant, then they should have updated it to support encryption and higher definition multi-media, and carriers shouldn't have charged through the nose for the service, but the SW industry disrupted the telecom industry with much higher quality messaging apps that were also free, which deprecated carriers to be just dumb data pipes and made SMS/MMS mostly obsolete.
>And for the record, ALMOST ALL recent high profile hacks were related to WhatsApp.
That's needlessly exaggerating without posting any sources for such grave claims. Which "recent high profile whatsapp hacks"?
> In the end, for most consumers, it's a matter of looking at the convenience to risk ratio, and MMS is neither very convenient nor terribly secure.
Well, most consumers do not accept the same argument for http vs https.
Well, most consumers do not accept the same argument for http vs https.
Ok, but what does that have to do with it? I never made any arguments on http vs https, so why are you going off topic? Consumers don't have any tradeoffs on https vs insecure http so this comparison is not even in the same ballpark.
Easier for government to infiltrate a local mobile operator than getting into WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal etc.
The revolution will be WhatsApped.
The revolution will be WhatsApped.
It might be easier for local government to control telcos but much more difficult for a foreign government when compared to what might be a secret court warrant etc.
If your opponent is the US government you are already doomed.
Before dismissing MMS/SMS, consider it has an option for paid rich text messages and other media with carrier billing. Was used in the 90s for ringtones/backgrounds and such, but could be used for collecting subscriptions (mags, newsletters, literature). Of course, FAANG killed it (not least Google themselves with the convenient Stagefreight bug on Android), but I think we shouldn't sing FAANG's song here when the alternatives are closed, feudalistic ecosystems designed for ads such as FB's and Google's, or Apple's.
I'd rather be in a closed, "feudalistic" ecosystem of Apple or Google than deal with any carrier.
From a non-US perspective: At least carriers are not US quasi monopolies. They do often obey local laws. (see today's Google analytic submission on HN if you don't know what I mean)
And they provide interoperability. If my aunt uses another carrier than me I can still reach her.
Of course carriers in the US are worse than elsewhere, so some people might have a stronger point like yours. I am in the lucky situation that e.g. SIM locking is illegal here.
And they provide interoperability. If my aunt uses another carrier than me I can still reach her.
Of course carriers in the US are worse than elsewhere, so some people might have a stronger point like yours. I am in the lucky situation that e.g. SIM locking is illegal here.
I'd rather not have messaging capabilities than expose my metadata to Facebook. MMS is great for communicating with people for whom "message" and "Whatsapp" are near-synonyms.
Same here. Not fan of Apple or Facebook as a company, but would definitely take their offer over anything that is plaintext and carrier-controlled.
At least with iMessage or Messenger we have a way of sending encrypted messages of almost any format. (Clarification: not necessarily E2EE but at least encrypted to a non-carrier company)
At least with iMessage or Messenger we have a way of sending encrypted messages of almost any format. (Clarification: not necessarily E2EE but at least encrypted to a non-carrier company)
At the low end of the spectrum ($10/month prepaid), at least in Canada, unlimited international SMS/MMS is part of the menu. It's gone from an overpriced premium feature to all the way down to the baseline.
At about half a megabyte of payload, it works very well to send photos, voice clips, even videos (10-15 seconds, or the quality degrades too much), also contact cards.
These days you have to actively resist Google upgrading you to their enhanced messenger app; once you have that picture messages will be sent using normal mobile data.
It is a little known legacy feature even here. I find that about 80% of random phones have it provisioned correctly; for the rest it can be manually done by fiddling with the APN settings but virtually nobody knows how to do that.
At about half a megabyte of payload, it works very well to send photos, voice clips, even videos (10-15 seconds, or the quality degrades too much), also contact cards.
These days you have to actively resist Google upgrading you to their enhanced messenger app; once you have that picture messages will be sent using normal mobile data.
It is a little known legacy feature even here. I find that about 80% of random phones have it provisioned correctly; for the rest it can be manually done by fiddling with the APN settings but virtually nobody knows how to do that.
The problem is that the carriers are in control of it and you never know what you’re going to get at the end, if anything. The media may get recompressed several times along the way. The infrastructure involved is also ancient and poorly maintained, lots of “unknown unknowns” that can cause trouble.
Pardon my ignorance, but is there any app/client/software that takes the interference out of the equation by encrypting (or at least encoding) the content in transit?
Doing so would be possible over vanilla SMS as well, I guess.
Doing so would be possible over vanilla SMS as well, I guess.
It could technically work, but then there's a chance that if your file (which is no longer JPEG) can't be parsed by the carrier's infrastructure it will simply reject it (or worse - crash it), so your encrypted file still needs to look like a valid image, but then your encoding scheme should be robust enough to survive being recompressed multiple times.
This depends greatly on the carriers involved. At least with Verizon (in USA), simply having a PNG header and extension is enough for a file to be classified as an image. If the "image" is 1MB or less, the image doesn't get reencoded.
I took advantage of this back in the day (when I had a severely limited data plan and unlimited texting), by writing a script for my computer that would take a large file, split it into 1MB chunks, prepend a 1x1px PNG image to the chunks, and send them to my number through the email-to-MMS gateway sequentially. Then on my phone, I wrote a script that would remove the PNG headers and concatenate the chunks, giving me the original file.
My workflow consisted of SSH-ing into my PC from my phone, initiating a download, and then running the downloaded file through my scripts. By doing this, I could send up to 500MB per day to my phone without using any data.
I took advantage of this back in the day (when I had a severely limited data plan and unlimited texting), by writing a script for my computer that would take a large file, split it into 1MB chunks, prepend a 1x1px PNG image to the chunks, and send them to my number through the email-to-MMS gateway sequentially. Then on my phone, I wrote a script that would remove the PNG headers and concatenate the chunks, giving me the original file.
My workflow consisted of SSH-ing into my PC from my phone, initiating a download, and then running the downloaded file through my scripts. By doing this, I could send up to 500MB per day to my phone without using any data.
originally signal worked like this
Does anyone in the whole world use that? I didn't use it before internet connected smartphones because the images were crap. Now there's really no point in it.
Yes. I send photos over text messages sometimes. could be memes, could be snapshots. It's surprising to me that others think it is unheard of!
I wonder if this is an issue of different parts of the world? I'm in USA, where my SMS/MMS traffic is unmetered and included in my phone plan unlimited. You?
Additionally, MMS is used for group text messages.
*update* 20 minutes after I posted this, I received an MMS message with a picture of a cat. So.
I wonder if this is an issue of different parts of the world? I'm in USA, where my SMS/MMS traffic is unmetered and included in my phone plan unlimited. You?
Additionally, MMS is used for group text messages.
*update* 20 minutes after I posted this, I received an MMS message with a picture of a cat. So.
It's quite used in France. Technically speaking it has no replacement, it's the only system that works natively with any phone, doesn't require you to install a dedicated app, create an account on a third party and do not push all those constraints on the people you're sending messages to.
I use it for all the people I know where we don't share a common proprietary messanging app. I have friends that refuse to use Facebook so don't have WhatsApp. I have friends who are devoted to Apple and don't have anything other than iMessage. I have relations who don't have anything other than the built-in SMS app.
I sometimes need to send these people photos of something.
I sometimes need to send these people photos of something.
Presumably every time an iOS user in America sends a picture or video to an Android person. So, quite a lot I'd wager.
SMS doesn't do group messaging or messages over 160 characters.
I have a group of friends and we never were able to agree upon another chat protocol, so we have a group SMS chat that exchanges a a few hundred messages a week; it stared around COVID as we weren't getting together in person.
Anyone who wants to send a message where one of these is true must either use MMS, or convince everyone to sign up for some other messaging service if the people involved are not all either on an iPhone or Android:
- Includes a picture - Includes a contact - Longer than 160 characters - More than one recipient
I have a group of friends and we never were able to agree upon another chat protocol, so we have a group SMS chat that exchanges a a few hundred messages a week; it stared around COVID as we weren't getting together in person.
Anyone who wants to send a message where one of these is true must either use MMS, or convince everyone to sign up for some other messaging service if the people involved are not all either on an iPhone or Android:
- Includes a picture - Includes a contact - Longer than 160 characters - More than one recipient
I didn't use it because at the time where it was useful it was freaking expensive to send an MMS.
I use it to send photos to Android-using friends and family, mostly because it means I can stay in a single messaging app (iMessage). MMS is unlimited on my plan.
I use it to send and receive pictures all the time. If I'm documenting something for a client the I sure as hell won't start trying to find the client on social media.
> find the client on social media
Whatsapp is social media? I always thought it's a sms/mms that works...
Whatsapp is social media? I always thought it's a sms/mms that works...
I use it every day with my family and friends. We're not all on the same messaging platforms, but we can always reliably send MMS messages for pics on group chats.
If you are still sending SMS that are longer than 160 characters, then you are using MMS behind the scenes.
I thought SMS apps just split the text in 160 character chunks, and merge them on the receiving side. Isn't that how it works?
Yup, the parent comment is incorrect. SMS longer than 160 characters (in GSM 03.38 encoding) are split into multiple parts, each a maximum of 153 characters long, 7 characters are used to glue the parts together.
I believe it depends the implementation. I recall having a phone that would explicitly indicate a switch to MMS when sending longer messages.
I too recall that. I suspect it was a boon for the carriers, eating into your MMS quota. At the time though, my plan was unlimited SMS/MMS, so it didn't really matter to me.
I use MMS regularly for communicating with people who don't have Telegram. Granted most of that is regular old SMS, but MMS capabilities (e.g. low res photos) are expected and used often enough that they will be missed.
Still quite used in Canada, but I think we also had one of the highest penetration rates of SMS/MMS to begin with.
That being said, were it shut off I'd just use one of the other five messaging services on my phone...
That being said, were it shut off I'd just use one of the other five messaging services on my phone...
i used it to send images when the other person did not have whatsapp.
T-Mobile in Poland uses it so send ads.
I'm flabbergasted. This is going to royally mess up any android user trying to text an iphone user. Are they maybe trying to push apple to adopt RCS? I think we are still a good ways away from RCS working everywhere.
Except that RCS is another DOA google product. Im not sure what they are thinking here. What if someone in Switzerland wants to contact someone in a different country that doesnt user Whatsapp or Telegram?
Almost nobody in Europe uses SMS anymore (for person-to-person messaging, at least; it's still quite common for B2C, especially for two factor authentication). MMS was never popular in the first place.
Most people in Europe use WhatsApp anyway...
It really doesn't.
(I also fail to understand how giving ownership to Facebook for all messaging is somehow an improvement in Europe.)
(I also fail to understand how giving ownership to Facebook for all messaging is somehow an improvement in Europe.)
Ideally SMS first and then MMS would be free secure protocols with nice to use tools and no cost to use and everybody would use them. However they are not and most Europeans left SMS in the 2000s for instant messaging because of costs. Then we settled to either WhatsApp or Messenger or a combination of them according to the groups of people we meet with. Telegram is particularly good for large groups and is used especially by young or technical people. Any other IM is a rounding error. That FB owns both the major IMs is very unfortunate but people already voted with their apps.
Maybe they took facebook money in order to drop support for MMS? Drive business to facebook. Profit!
Hmm, I really don't think MMS is widely used in Switzerland. If Bob has an Android and wants to talk to Alice the iPhone user, Bob is not going to be SMS-ing/MMS-ing Alice, Bob will write Alice on WhatsApp (or Telegram, or Signal, the great WhatsApp-agree-to-our-new-EULA exodus also happened in Europe), which Alice will almost certainly have. Apple has no iMessage-moat in Europe.
If you want to measure my certainty: I would bet 1000 Swiss Francs that if you went to the center of Zurich and asked 50 random people who have smartphones if they had one of WhatsApp/Signal/Telegram/Threema, they'd say yes.
If you want to measure my certainty: I would bet 1000 Swiss Francs that if you went to the center of Zurich and asked 50 random people who have smartphones if they had one of WhatsApp/Signal/Telegram/Threema, they'd say yes.
And yet if you asked if they had all of them, almost no one would say so. I have friends who have quit Facebook, I have friends fully dedicated to the Apple ecosystem, I have one or two privacy-focused ones who use Signal, and no protocol other than MMS that can talk to all of them.
Sure ... but it shapes with your circle of friends. Pick any two of the three, and you will reach virtually anyone. And pure luddites? Well, they don't have smartphones, usually.
It doesn't matter if they don't have all of them. They make their choice. I have whatsapp, but have managed to convince a core group of friends to use Signal. We make do.
Nobody I know with an iPhone uses signal or WhatsApp. They just use iMessage. I'm constantly bugging my iPhone-owning family and friends to install Signal. Nobody cares.
There's a reason the blue / green iMessage bubbles are such a hot topic among the youths these days. It's not because everybody uses 3rd party messengers.
There's a reason the blue / green iMessage bubbles are such a hot topic among the youths these days. It's not because everybody uses 3rd party messengers.
In America or Europe?
A lot yes, but far from all.
I think that's a shame. Some of my contacts only have WhatsApp, and I am definitely not gonna install that Spyware. So to those, I am still sending pictures by MMS.
Try email, better privacy than MMS.
I was a MMSC developer over a decade ago, don't ask what most of the MMS traffic was.
I was a MMSC developer over a decade ago, don't ask what most of the MMS traffic was.
I know, I know *hugs*
Hopefully by 2023 the state of RCS will have improved.
Except most carrier don't want to implement it — it will need new investment in architecture, new bilateral negociation between operator, new routing partners... and it's backed by Google, which seems to not reassure anyone.
Many carriers already have. The main issue is that Google is steamrolling their own IaaS solution (Jibe) while some carriers (like Swisscom for instance) have actually implemented Universal Profile on their own, and are now left out.
How are they left out? If they have implemented Universal Profile they should be able to interoperate with those using Jibe's.
Google seems not interested in interconnected third party RCS hubs anymore.
The current situation means that people who are directly connected to Google's own Jibe infrastructure can message carrier-operated Jibe deployments. But they can't message third party RCS networks or vice-versa.
The current situation means that people who are directly connected to Google's own Jibe infrastructure can message carrier-operated Jibe deployments. But they can't message third party RCS networks or vice-versa.
What a hilarious way to kill RCS growth beyond where it is. Why?
The people I asked didn't know.
Pure speculation: Google got frustrated with carriers moving too slowly even after acquiring Jibe. I understand carriers not being compelled by Google's lack of vision for mobile messaging then. Especially given that Apple won't give a damn.
A few years pass and Google decides to pivot their messaging services once again, and that now is the time to push RCS for real. Google managed to convince big carriers on several continents that Jibe is the solution. And they probably think the small ones will eventually cave in.
Pure speculation: Google got frustrated with carriers moving too slowly even after acquiring Jibe. I understand carriers not being compelled by Google's lack of vision for mobile messaging then. Especially given that Apple won't give a damn.
A few years pass and Google decides to pivot their messaging services once again, and that now is the time to push RCS for real. Google managed to convince big carriers on several continents that Jibe is the solution. And they probably think the small ones will eventually cave in.
> Why?
This is only speculation, but it's Google. You don't get promoted for making an existing messenger work, or work better. Better to abandon it and join a team making a new messenger.
This is only speculation, but it's Google. You don't get promoted for making an existing messenger work, or work better. Better to abandon it and join a team making a new messenger.
Well, with this move they simply will have to.
Thankfully, it's not driven by Google, just "approved" by them. You don't want to use a Google technology for thinga you want to continue to exist 4 years from now.
Thankfully, it's not driven by Google, just "approved" by them. You don't want to use a Google technology for thinga you want to continue to exist 4 years from now.
When you say it's not driven by Google - who exactly is pushing carriers to adopt RCS if not Google?
Honestly, at this point I don't think there is hope for RCS.
And even if there was: I really don't like the idea of an (at least somewhat) carrier-controlled messaging service. Especially the lack of multi-device messaging/not being able to access my account without my phone is really frustrating.
We had all of that with instant messengers in the early 2000s (proprietary or open/federated) – RCS seems like a big step back in that regard.
And even if there was: I really don't like the idea of an (at least somewhat) carrier-controlled messaging service. Especially the lack of multi-device messaging/not being able to access my account without my phone is really frustrating.
We had all of that with instant messengers in the early 2000s (proprietary or open/federated) – RCS seems like a big step back in that regard.
This seems like a bad tradeoff, considering that MMS are entirely unencrypted and traverse a lot of legacy infrastructure.
Not sure anybody ever used those. At -like- chf 1 a pop, they paved the way for WhatsApp to eat mobile telecom's lunch.
MMS was terrible, however people are fine paying 70 CHF/month for unlimited mobile internet nowadays. I find this ridiculous, personally I'm trying to condition myself to only use the 100MB of free monthly data, stricly messaging only. It's a challenge.
Yes, it's quite messed up. I pay CHF 80 / month (USD ~86) for cell phone service while at the same time I can get 25gbit synchronous fiber internet for CHF 64.75 / month (USD ~70).
For 80 CHF (60 if you're an inOne customer) you get a very high-end plan with extensive data roaming (40GB in a lot of countries) and international calls. Most people don't need that.
If you can do that kudos to you. Just yesterday I got a video on WA that was around 30MB and it was downloaded automatically. When you are in roaming WA is smart enough to not download it unless you click on it, but when you have a data connection in your home country you have no say (to the best of my knowledge).
Here are the instructions on how to change that: https://faq.whatsapp.com/android/chats/configuring-auto-down...
The formatting is messed up for me, so here's an third party alternative:
https://drfone.wondershare.com/whatsapp/how-to-stop-auto-dow...
The formatting is messed up for me, so here's an third party alternative:
https://drfone.wondershare.com/whatsapp/how-to-stop-auto-dow...
Thanks!!!
There are settings to not download media files automatically even on WiFi. To download you click on it first, and you get to see how large the file is beforehand.
[deleted]
You can rather easily get "unlimited" (as far as I know, pretty much every operator caps at 40 GB/month) internet (in Switzerland only) for 20 CHF/month nowadays.
Except for very cheap MVNOs, no, there should be no cap with unlimited plans. You'll obviously suffer a bit from the QoS/prioritization but I know several people having no issues with unlimited 4G/5G from Salt, Yallo or Wingo.
Both my previous Yallo and my current Salt plans were unlimited, but restricted to 40GB before throttling in the terms and conditions. Maybe it has changed? (It's very hard to find detailed terms and conditions when looking at new contracts.)
I'm fairly certain Salt never enforced any throttling in practice, though it might be in the ToS?
Recent deals from Yallo mention throttling when roaming, but not in Switzerland where unlimited is really unlimited.
Recent deals from Yallo mention throttling when roaming, but not in Switzerland where unlimited is really unlimited.
Or even a lot less if you're waiting for the special offers.
I have sunrise unlimited internet for 5 CHF/month (10 CHF without discount). Includes like 500 MB for roaming per month as well.
I have sunrise unlimited internet for 5 CHF/month (10 CHF without discount). Includes like 500 MB for roaming per month as well.
So weird, I pay 13 eur a month for unlimited data...
there are various providers of unlimited data at around 30 CHF/month. I have yallo for 29. was some kinda lifetime rebate program.
Is it still like that in Switzerland? Here in Denmark I'd be hard pressed to find a plan without both free SMS and MMS, at least domestically.
In Germany you'll still pay 0.39€ / MMS even in otherwise unlimited-everything contracts. Needless to say it never was used widely. Personally I've only sent them very rarely and in almost all cases out of a misguided automated conversion, which I was never happy about.
It's weird how big the difference can be just across our border to the south, I wonder what sort of market forces that have caused this. It's not as if SMS/MMS services actually costs the telcos anything beyond the small amount of data in the messages.
I guess it does explain why people use apps like Telegram and WhatsApp while their usage is close to non-existent here.
I guess it does explain why people use apps like Telegram and WhatsApp while their usage is close to non-existent here.
In finland my plan has sms priced at 0.07e and mms at 0.40e. Unsurprisingly I've probably sent only a handful of mms in my lifetime.
This would be interesting for the blue / green bubble debate. When you send an emoji, you send an MMS...
That's just a USA thing, rest of the world use 3rd party platforms to chat.
Please don't assume that wherever you live is the same as the rest of the world. SMS messages are not exactly unusual in Switzerland, and I've had at least a few friends prefer them in most every other country I've been as well. Naturally, MMS are somewhat less common due to WhatsApp's convenience for group and media messages, but conventional text messaging is almost mandatory for many 2FA services such as the vaccine portals in some cantons, banking, etc.
For instance, SMS seems to be preferred for online selling platforms in which only a phone number is exchanged. It's strange to add a stranger to your contacts for a one-time transaction, so I've often been contacted by SMS or email.
For instance, SMS seems to be preferred for online selling platforms in which only a phone number is exchanged. It's strange to add a stranger to your contacts for a one-time transaction, so I've often been contacted by SMS or email.
the main online selling plattform in germany (ebay-kleinanzeigen) has a messenger integrated that everybody just uses for this reason. almost everyything else happens in whatsapp. yes youhave some people on signal/threema/telegram but virtually everybody has whatsapp.
Yep, some Swiss platforms have a similar messaging system but others (e.g. Ricardo.ch, probably the most popular?) just offer contact information instead.
It might also help that it's increasingly common to pay over the TWINT mobile payment system created by Swiss banks for which mobile numbers remain the primary identification method for private users, not to mention SMS messages used for transaction confirmations or login codes. Given the default option of a phone number for many of these private sales, an SMS is probably more straightforward than adding a new contact to use another app.
It might also help that it's increasingly common to pay over the TWINT mobile payment system created by Swiss banks for which mobile numbers remain the primary identification method for private users, not to mention SMS messages used for transaction confirmations or login codes. Given the default option of a phone number for many of these private sales, an SMS is probably more straightforward than adding a new contact to use another app.
Why do you send a MMS when sending an emoji?
That doesn‘t make sense to me…
To my knowledge you don’t. But SMS messages natively only use 7-bit ASCII. Sending emojis requires both carrier and device/OS support, because it’s impossible to represent an emoji using pure 7-bit ASCII.
As an aside, Unicode SMS messages fit far fewer characters per message (around 70 as opposed to 160), so most mobile devices still default to 7-bit ASCII unless the message can’t be represented as such.
As an aside, Unicode SMS messages fit far fewer characters per message (around 70 as opposed to 160), so most mobile devices still default to 7-bit ASCII unless the message can’t be represented as such.
Anytime you send something in utf-8 you send an mms if my memory is correct. SMS only works with ASCII and thus english language.
SMS natively supports three encoding schemes: 7-bit GSM (English+Nordic+Uppercase Greek), 8-bit national encodings, and Unicode UCS-2 (although modern devices use UTF-16 in the UCS-2 mode)
I'm pretty sure that I was sending Hebrew SMS messages before I had an MMS-capable device or service. Circa 2001 or so.
Really?
I accidentally configured Windows Phone to use ASCII instead of UTF-8 for SMS a while back then the first time I tried to send emoji the phone chucked a wobbly and told me it wouldn't send due to a character set error. Once that was fixed everything worked fine, and I don't get the indication I'm sending MMS.
I accidentally configured Windows Phone to use ASCII instead of UTF-8 for SMS a while back then the first time I tried to send emoji the phone chucked a wobbly and told me it wouldn't send due to a character set error. Once that was fixed everything worked fine, and I don't get the indication I'm sending MMS.
Is that a thing in Swiss? Thought it was all Whatsapp/Telegram there.
I just learnt of the blue/green debate recently from a MKBHD video. WhatsApp is suprisingly prevalient here.
Once the services that charge transaction fees fall away, will the various free services that replaced them start charging for their service?
Is it true that Swiss consumers do not use group texting features? I would think this would be a huge disruption if done in the US.
WhatsApp, Signal, and Telegram all have group chats and are very popular.
iMessage is not really a thing, despite iOS substantial marketshare.
iMessage is not really a thing, despite iOS substantial marketshare.
And Threema
Yes, this is virtually unused in Europe. People mostly use OTT messengers like WhatsApp, Signal etc.
Was there any country that MMS ever took off and was actually used in practice, beyond proof of concept?
I have 21 unread messages for today in the "Family Text" which is a sprawling MMS conversation with relatives where not everyone gets the image others are talking about, and the messages don't always arrive in sequence if at all.
We should really be doing this another way, so yes, please kill MMS.
We should really be doing this another way, so yes, please kill MMS.
The US where it is currently still widely used.
I'm in the US. I started using MMS quite a bit in 2003, about the time I got my first 3G phone. It was quite handy for sending photos with family, and I had several friends who also could receive MMS without issue. At the time the carriers in the area counted MMS messages the same as SMS messages, so if you had a texting plan you usually could also use MMS at no extra cost. Thus it was easy to share photos from our early camera phones with each other, before Facebook or Whatsapp even existed. And then when Facebook did exist but before using a Facebook app was a thing you could upload photos to things like Facebook through MMS gateways as well. Most of the original photos I uploaded to Facebook were things uploaded from a camera phone through MMS messages as it was quite easy to do.
I used to use the MMS email gateway a decent bit as well. It made it really easy to get notifications for things before I got a Symbian phone with IMAP on it and could just use my regular email on the go. I still get some notifications through the MMS gateway from some services.
I still use MMS a decent bit. Its still the least common denominator between everyone I know for group messaging, and for the most part is a somewhat seamless experience between Android phones, iPhones, and non-smartphones. I do tend to do most of my messaging through an app, but probably 10% of my messages still go through SMS/MMS these days for those people who I don't have an overlapping app with, usually because they only use iMessage or they don't have a smartphone.
I used to use the MMS email gateway a decent bit as well. It made it really easy to get notifications for things before I got a Symbian phone with IMAP on it and could just use my regular email on the go. I still get some notifications through the MMS gateway from some services.
I still use MMS a decent bit. Its still the least common denominator between everyone I know for group messaging, and for the most part is a somewhat seamless experience between Android phones, iPhones, and non-smartphones. I do tend to do most of my messaging through an app, but probably 10% of my messages still go through SMS/MMS these days for those people who I don't have an overlapping app with, usually because they only use iMessage or they don't have a smartphone.
It saw pretty common usage in Sweden, and I'm convinced we weren't alone. The advent of iMessage, smartphones and mobile data traffic changed a lot.
MMS was popular enough in the US that when Apple added MMS support in iPhoneOS 3.0, at&t delayed supporting it for iPhone users based on fears that it would bog down their cellular data infrastructure.
That's annoying. The basic SMS app on Android will convert long messages to MMS.
It's good to have a message service which has no ads, no charges, no signup, and no EULA. It's provided entirely by a regulated telecom regulator. No nonsense.
It's good to have a message service which has no ads, no charges, no signup, and no EULA. It's provided entirely by a regulated telecom regulator. No nonsense.
One data point. I’m an American that has been traveling since late 2019, primarily in Europe and Latin America. I almost always get a local SIM in pick-a-country. The only thing I use SMS for is paying for parking, 2FA, and texting friends in America. Almost everything else is WhatsApp, Instagram, and Facebook Messenger. On occasion I bump into someone who prefers Telegram.
Sunrise (about 25% market share in Switzerland) sends out MMS messages with special offers to their customers on a regular basis
>Using a messenger app
>Download the app from the App Store (iPhone) or Google Play Store (Android phone) and register as advised.
>Threema
>Signal
>TeleGuard
>The most popular messenger app in Switzerland and worldwide is WhatsApp. However, we do not recommend WhatsApp or Telegram for security reasons (problematic encryption and non-transparent data protection guidelines).
Well done, Swisscom!
>Download the app from the App Store (iPhone) or Google Play Store (Android phone) and register as advised.
>Threema
>Signal
>TeleGuard
>The most popular messenger app in Switzerland and worldwide is WhatsApp. However, we do not recommend WhatsApp or Telegram for security reasons (problematic encryption and non-transparent data protection guidelines).
Well done, Swisscom!
Given SMSs bigger than 160 characters were sent as MMS, I wonder what will be the new UX in the SMS app when I reach the character limit.
Will my SMS be sent into multiple chunks? Will my system tell me it's over the character limit?
Will my SMS be sent into multiple chunks? Will my system tell me it's over the character limit?
>Will my SMS be sent into multiple chunks?
Yes. Actually, it already is. MMS is rarely used now for text-only messages, and instead concatenated messages is the norm. It does require network and OS support on both ends, however.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concatenated_SMS
Yes. Actually, it already is. MMS is rarely used now for text-only messages, and instead concatenated messages is the norm. It does require network and OS support on both ends, however.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concatenated_SMS
SMS always had multi-part support (sometimes called "long SMS"), and that's what's used for sending long texts, not MMS.
To all the people singin praises of their feudalistic closed privacy apps, the EARN IT bill is attempting to legislate away that privacy.
At least with MMS it all just works
At least with MMS it all just works
It feels counterintuitive that the competition from WhatsApp, iMessage, etc, never managed to bring down the price of MMS. Any ideas?
what about USSD and WAP? - sorry, had to ask :D
I had never heard of the third app they suggest as a replacement (Teleguard), which is apparently also a Swiss product.
Looking at their Privacy Policy[1], they make a suspiciously claim to not log anything. Not even payment information (whatever that means). Which makes me wonder how they combat fraud, spam and fake accounts. And, ultimately, the product being closed-source I guess you will just have to trust their claims.. just like WhatsApp and Telegram that Swisscom advises against for that same reason.[2]
[1] https://teleguard.com/en/privacy
[2] Actually, some parts of Telegram’s code is open source. Although it’s only the clients so the point about trust stands.
Looking at their Privacy Policy[1], they make a suspiciously claim to not log anything. Not even payment information (whatever that means). Which makes me wonder how they combat fraud, spam and fake accounts. And, ultimately, the product being closed-source I guess you will just have to trust their claims.. just like WhatsApp and Telegram that Swisscom advises against for that same reason.[2]
[1] https://teleguard.com/en/privacy
[2] Actually, some parts of Telegram’s code is open source. Although it’s only the clients so the point about trust stands.
I want to discontinue Swisscom overall.
Never used MMS and apparently it was discontinued in my country in 2019.
HN hates WhatsApp but it was disruption with a giant fucking D visible from Mars.
HN hates WhatsApp but it was disruption with a giant fucking D visible from Mars.
HN hates Facebook. WhatsApp was a fantastic service built on a fantastic stack by fantastic people.
I personally never had any SMS/MMS contact with any person in the past two years since I've had my phone.
What people need to understand is that once Swisscom decides something, people are going to migrate. Swisscom disabled the 2G network at the start of 2021 and people which still had old "dumb" phones migrated either over to smart or feature phones, which both support messengers such as WhatsApp.
Swisscom realized this and is now getting rid of a feature that was practically unused, making their tech stack simpler. Totally understandable and most likely not a big loss for anyone except a few.