Ask HN: Have you had any real benefits from apps like Headspace, Fabulous, etc?
101 comments
After trying Headspace and Calm I settled on the app Waking Up[0] and have been using it for a couple of years now. It's been a huge help. It's a lot more than just a guided meditation app.
While you can get some benefits from simply practicing meditation, it can feel a bit aimless. What I like about Waking Up is the conversations with experienced meditators where they talk about the practice itself. These serve as a guide for my own practice. There's a whole section that consists of conversations on the theory behind meditation. As an HN type I eat these up.
I also don't think you can get the full benefit of a meditation practice without considering the nature of mind and consciousness. The app includes several discussions on this topic as well and it helped to inform my practice substantially.
[0]https://wakingup.com/
While you can get some benefits from simply practicing meditation, it can feel a bit aimless. What I like about Waking Up is the conversations with experienced meditators where they talk about the practice itself. These serve as a guide for my own practice. There's a whole section that consists of conversations on the theory behind meditation. As an HN type I eat these up.
I also don't think you can get the full benefit of a meditation practice without considering the nature of mind and consciousness. The app includes several discussions on this topic as well and it helped to inform my practice substantially.
[0]https://wakingup.com/
I love Waking Up. It's Sam Harris walking you through how to do it in a practical way.
I'll admit that until I tried it, I thought meditating was either just sitting there trying there trying to think no thoughts or it had some sort of religious connection that just wasn't for me. After using it for months, I realized it's a way to be present, acknowledge that thoughts are things that merely arise, and most of all, things that you can discard instead of letting them impact you.
I started trying it when he said that he'll do it for 30 seconds just standing in line at Starbucks if he feels some sort of anxiety, or before he goes on stage. That kind of thing felt practical to me, so I gave it a go. I've used the app on and off for over a year, often starting from the first guided session from scratch and working back through them when I lose the habit.
I don't do the guided sessions anymore, mostly listen to the interviews in the app that you point out. But I meditate in the morning almost every day now, and right after, I try to think of the person I want to be, and then I start my day. I got that tip from Eben Pagan (of David DeAngelo dating advice fame) after realizing I usually just wake up and am the person that I feel like, like sometimes I'd wake up and feel low confidence, and I would kinda be a low confidence person all day. Meanwhile, all I had to do was simply decide to take another path.
I dismissed all of this kind of stuff as BS for most of my life. I was 30 when I finally tried Waking Up and I finally see that there's something practical behind these things.
I'll admit that until I tried it, I thought meditating was either just sitting there trying there trying to think no thoughts or it had some sort of religious connection that just wasn't for me. After using it for months, I realized it's a way to be present, acknowledge that thoughts are things that merely arise, and most of all, things that you can discard instead of letting them impact you.
I started trying it when he said that he'll do it for 30 seconds just standing in line at Starbucks if he feels some sort of anxiety, or before he goes on stage. That kind of thing felt practical to me, so I gave it a go. I've used the app on and off for over a year, often starting from the first guided session from scratch and working back through them when I lose the habit.
I don't do the guided sessions anymore, mostly listen to the interviews in the app that you point out. But I meditate in the morning almost every day now, and right after, I try to think of the person I want to be, and then I start my day. I got that tip from Eben Pagan (of David DeAngelo dating advice fame) after realizing I usually just wake up and am the person that I feel like, like sometimes I'd wake up and feel low confidence, and I would kinda be a low confidence person all day. Meanwhile, all I had to do was simply decide to take another path.
I dismissed all of this kind of stuff as BS for most of my life. I was 30 when I finally tried Waking Up and I finally see that there's something practical behind these things.
> While you can get some benefits from simply practicing meditation, it can feel a bit aimless
Isn’t that… the point of meditation?
Isn’t that… the point of meditation?
>> While you can get some benefits from simply practicing meditation, it can feel a bit aimless
> Isn’t that… the point of meditation?
Absolutely not! The secularization of meditation in the west has completely divorced meditation from it's original purpose (in the Buddhist context). Meditation is a complete mental training program. Monks did not just sit there on a cushion; they worked with teachers, reflected on ideas, and gained insights.
There is a mistaken view that meditation is just sitting there, but meditation is an active practice that includes eating, walking, cleaning, etc.
Being divorced from tradition is what makes it aimless and pointless.
I am not personally against secularization, but if we are going to extract ideas from these traditions, we should honor them and make them work effectively in our modern lives.
> Isn’t that… the point of meditation?
Absolutely not! The secularization of meditation in the west has completely divorced meditation from it's original purpose (in the Buddhist context). Meditation is a complete mental training program. Monks did not just sit there on a cushion; they worked with teachers, reflected on ideas, and gained insights.
There is a mistaken view that meditation is just sitting there, but meditation is an active practice that includes eating, walking, cleaning, etc.
Being divorced from tradition is what makes it aimless and pointless.
I am not personally against secularization, but if we are going to extract ideas from these traditions, we should honor them and make them work effectively in our modern lives.
> The secularization of meditation in the west has completely divorced meditation from it's original purpose (in the Buddhist context).
FYI:
Meditation originated in Hinduism where the original purpose was connection with God (as part of Yoga, the physical yoga is more recent). The earliest records of meditation can be found in Upanishads. Originally, meditation was highly directed.
Buddhism removed the God aspect. And a few thousand years later, the West has secularized it even more.
One part of this secularization has been to ignore the origins of meditation.
FYI:
Meditation originated in Hinduism where the original purpose was connection with God (as part of Yoga, the physical yoga is more recent). The earliest records of meditation can be found in Upanishads. Originally, meditation was highly directed.
Buddhism removed the God aspect. And a few thousand years later, the West has secularized it even more.
One part of this secularization has been to ignore the origins of meditation.
Yes, there is a lot of complexity to what you mentioned.
That is why I bracketed it: in the Buddhist context. The Buddha came out of the Vedic tradition (ancient Hinduism) so I agree that meditation practice is sourced from there. I cannot speak to what other Gurus were doing at that era.
Believe it or not there are deities (devas) in Buddhist Cosmology. The deity Brahma appears in much of early Buddhist scripture. Gods were not eliminated, but reduced in terms of importance.
In the West the “sit and do nothing practice” was extracted from the Shikantaza practice of the Zen tradition.
The problem is Zen includes all practice as part of meditative practice. There is no separation. This is not exclusive to Zen either. It is how Buddhism has been practiced in monasteries for over two thousand years.
That is why I bracketed it: in the Buddhist context. The Buddha came out of the Vedic tradition (ancient Hinduism) so I agree that meditation practice is sourced from there. I cannot speak to what other Gurus were doing at that era.
Believe it or not there are deities (devas) in Buddhist Cosmology. The deity Brahma appears in much of early Buddhist scripture. Gods were not eliminated, but reduced in terms of importance.
In the West the “sit and do nothing practice” was extracted from the Shikantaza practice of the Zen tradition.
The problem is Zen includes all practice as part of meditative practice. There is no separation. This is not exclusive to Zen either. It is how Buddhism has been practiced in monasteries for over two thousand years.
This kinda comes off as criticizing food for not being authentic.
It so happens that there's something useful in the roots of meditation's legacy that can be extracted from the religious—as many of us would consider it—chaff.
Like taking ayahuasca without a shaman to confront problems in your life. Turns out you don't need a shaman's spiritual rituals to benefit from the DMT experience.
It so happens that there's something useful in the roots of meditation's legacy that can be extracted from the religious—as many of us would consider it—chaff.
Like taking ayahuasca without a shaman to confront problems in your life. Turns out you don't need a shaman's spiritual rituals to benefit from the DMT experience.
I actually think you can extract the benefits of practice from the religious baggage. That is how I live my life today.
Meditation was also used in the West, too. The Greek Egyptian Plotinus described meditation practices, for instance.
IMO making meditation a productive activity with (shudder) metrics is far more divorced from tradition.
Again, isn’t aimlessness the point of Buddhism? Taming and mastering the ‘I’ and it’s worldly attachments like aiming for things?
Again, isn’t aimlessness the point of Buddhism? Taming and mastering the ‘I’ and it’s worldly attachments like aiming for things?
I am not exactly sure which tradition you speak of. From Theravada to Mahayana meditation has been practiced via sitting, chanting, walking, and work practice for over 2000 years.
It is this arbitrary separation of sitting meditation from other practices such as walking and work that is exactly the problem with the modern appropriation of meditation.
It is this arbitrary separation of sitting meditation from other practices such as walking and work that is exactly the problem with the modern appropriation of meditation.
Different types of meditation have different goals, somewhat like different types of exercise have different goals.
Meditation isn't about closing your eyes and doing nothing. It takes effort, at least until you are proficient.
Meditation isn't about closing your eyes and doing nothing. It takes effort, at least until you are proficient.
I think they're mainly referring to the "what am I doing here?" phase that most people seem to go through when they start meditating.
It's exactly why I never managed to make a habit out of it.
It's exactly why I never managed to make a habit out of it.
When I practiced mindfulness meditation, I was incredibly in the moment. Zero distractions.
I agree. I’ve been using headspace on and off for about 3 years. The last three months it really started to click when I was able to meditate comfortably for 30 minutes or more.
To answer OP’s question: the benefits I’ve found are to start to recognize the constant internal (mostly critical) monologue as just another appearance in consciousness in the same way sight and sound are. When I have a really good meditation session this monologue just kind of dissolves and I’m left feeling very peaceful.
Would love to hear from any other experienced meditators on what they found their next steps to be at this stage.
To answer OP’s question: the benefits I’ve found are to start to recognize the constant internal (mostly critical) monologue as just another appearance in consciousness in the same way sight and sound are. When I have a really good meditation session this monologue just kind of dissolves and I’m left feeling very peaceful.
Would love to hear from any other experienced meditators on what they found their next steps to be at this stage.
I think you're misunderstanding the point of these apps, which might very well be intentional on these companies' part to get you to spend money on something that you might not need.
Therapy doesn't "solve" anything by itself, you must see it as a tool to help you put your mind in a better position so that you can solve your problems. Lots of people see these as magical apps that will somehow magically make them better with no effort from their side and then proceed to get disappointed when this obviously doesn't happen.
So to answer your question:
- Will these apps provide "scientific benefits" (whatever that is supposed to be)? No.
- Will these apps assist your own effort of improving mental health? Yes, as long as you're committed to it and keep going.
Therapy doesn't "solve" anything by itself, you must see it as a tool to help you put your mind in a better position so that you can solve your problems. Lots of people see these as magical apps that will somehow magically make them better with no effort from their side and then proceed to get disappointed when this obviously doesn't happen.
So to answer your question:
- Will these apps provide "scientific benefits" (whatever that is supposed to be)? No.
- Will these apps assist your own effort of improving mental health? Yes, as long as you're committed to it and keep going.
I feel like this is rephrasing the issue in an unhelpful way. Sure the app isn’t going to do the work for you but it’s still valuable to know what the average marginal benefit is relative to not using one or using a different one, especially considering these are paid services and therefore need to be considered for value.
I run into this problem a lot: people think buying "health food" will fix their weight, or that a gym membership will make them fit.
You have to eat the food. You have to use the gym.
It's a bit like arguing about the best gym to join. People waste months answering that question. The answer is "whichever one you will actually use".
You have to eat the food. You have to use the gym.
It's a bit like arguing about the best gym to join. People waste months answering that question. The answer is "whichever one you will actually use".
> Therapy doesn't "solve" anything by itself, you must see it as a tool to help you put your mind in a better position so that you can solve your problems.
One part of mediation is resisting the temptation to try and solve anything. You improve being able to notice each thought, acknowledge in a non-judgemental way and then allow it to continue moving through the station. The next thought will be arriving shortly. Mind the gap please.
One part of mediation is resisting the temptation to try and solve anything. You improve being able to notice each thought, acknowledge in a non-judgemental way and then allow it to continue moving through the station. The next thought will be arriving shortly. Mind the gap please.
You are espousing a single type of meditation practice. Parent is talking about a different meditation practice.
> I think you're misunderstanding the point of these apps
Reminds me of the "Why are you trying to do this?" reply that is almost automatic on Stackoverflow, lol
Reminds me of the "Why are you trying to do this?" reply that is almost automatic on Stackoverflow, lol
I feel like 45min to 60min high intensity interval training (HIIT) cardiovascular exercise (e.g. swimming, running, rowing, bicycling, stairs, elliptical, etc) would be cheaper and address a host of other health issues also. Include some compound weight lifting like pull ups, deadlift, squat, bench press, lunges, and core workouts like planks, and I bet outcomes greatly exceed whatever an app can provide.
I've used high intensity cardio to manage pretty much any mental health issues I've flirted with over the years. (for me, mostly issues with focus, anxiety).
I am almost 40 now and I do see it seems to be diminishing in terms of effectiveness. I've tried to vary the amount and intensity but that has had limited impact.
I find now I need to manage other factors: alcohol intake, my diet, socialization, sleep, news consumption are all big ones for me.
I think there is a reason people do simplify many aspects of their lives as they get older. The sharp tools of youth aren't quite the magic they used to be.
Apps like Headspace, or just meditation generally, is something I have tried and I can see the benefit. I try to "clear my head" twice a day. Usually that's a 20 minute nap, and I've been trying to find another option and meditation seems like a good one.
I am almost 40 now and I do see it seems to be diminishing in terms of effectiveness. I've tried to vary the amount and intensity but that has had limited impact.
I find now I need to manage other factors: alcohol intake, my diet, socialization, sleep, news consumption are all big ones for me.
I think there is a reason people do simplify many aspects of their lives as they get older. The sharp tools of youth aren't quite the magic they used to be.
Apps like Headspace, or just meditation generally, is something I have tried and I can see the benefit. I try to "clear my head" twice a day. Usually that's a 20 minute nap, and I've been trying to find another option and meditation seems like a good one.
True, I am not yet 40, so I do not have that perspective. But the order of operations for maintaining health is, as I understand:
sleep right > eat right > exercise right
If you do not have the sleep and eat part down (including alcohol), then proceeding to exercise will not have all the desired effects. Not to say that meditation does not help, if it works for people then it works for people.
sleep right > eat right > exercise right
If you do not have the sleep and eat part down (including alcohol), then proceeding to exercise will not have all the desired effects. Not to say that meditation does not help, if it works for people then it works for people.
Exercise is great but meditation is also valuable for some people. And it doesn’t get cheaper than meditation, you don’t need anything outside yourself, except maybe a pillow and some time.
For meditation I think people are trying to "meditate".
Where I would get same benefits from 45-60 min cardio where I focus on the training and rhythm of music.
I definitely also felt "meditation" effects from reading books - but of course with intense focus on the book not thinking about anything else and not having tv running in background and people trying to talk to me.
In the end I do believe I get the same benefits when I focus on something intensely so basically any hobby.
Watching series on streaming services is for me not that immersive and too much stimuli so it does not work that.
Where I would get same benefits from 45-60 min cardio where I focus on the training and rhythm of music.
I definitely also felt "meditation" effects from reading books - but of course with intense focus on the book not thinking about anything else and not having tv running in background and people trying to talk to me.
In the end I do believe I get the same benefits when I focus on something intensely so basically any hobby.
Watching series on streaming services is for me not that immersive and too much stimuli so it does not work that.
As someone who enjoys all of those activities I will say that meditation offers something that those activities do not offer. There is an inner clarity that can be found in a much more profound way from meditation, in my experience.
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Respectfully, I don’t think you understand mediation. It’s not about intense focus, it’s about awareness.
Respectfully, you seem dramatically unaware there are over a dozen different schools of meditation from singing buddhist monks to silent Yogis, all of whom have distinct goals in meditation. Even reading the Wikipedia article on meditation would helpfully orient you in these basic facts.
Here is a quote from said article, noting that while there are many techniques, all of them are about fostering awareness:
“Meditation is a practice in which an individual uses a technique – such as mindfulness, or focusing the mind on a particular object, thought, or activity – to train attention and awareness, and achieve a mentally clear and emotionally calm and stable state.”
“Meditation is a practice in which an individual uses a technique – such as mindfulness, or focusing the mind on a particular object, thought, or activity – to train attention and awareness, and achieve a mentally clear and emotionally calm and stable state.”
> all of them are about fostering awareness
It explicitly does not say that.
Reread your quote, slowly.
> such as mindfulness, *or* focusing the mind on a particular object,
and
> to train *attention and awareness*, and achieve a mentally clear and emotionally calm and stable state.”
You will note the intro distinctly does not say this applies to all meditation, and that awareness is one of 7 different goals mentioned.
It's a shame you didn't continue to read, particularly the section on definition:
> Meditation has proven difficult to define as it covers a wide range of dissimilar practices in different traditions. In popular usage, the word "meditation" and the phrase "meditative practice" are often used imprecisely to designate practices found across many cultures.[19][20] These can include almost anything that is claimed to train the attention of mind or to teach calm or compassion.[21] There remains no definition of necessary and sufficient criteria for meditation that has achieved universal or widespread acceptance within the modern scientific community.
It explicitly does not say that.
Reread your quote, slowly.
> such as mindfulness, *or* focusing the mind on a particular object,
and
> to train *attention and awareness*, and achieve a mentally clear and emotionally calm and stable state.”
You will note the intro distinctly does not say this applies to all meditation, and that awareness is one of 7 different goals mentioned.
It's a shame you didn't continue to read, particularly the section on definition:
> Meditation has proven difficult to define as it covers a wide range of dissimilar practices in different traditions. In popular usage, the word "meditation" and the phrase "meditative practice" are often used imprecisely to designate practices found across many cultures.[19][20] These can include almost anything that is claimed to train the attention of mind or to teach calm or compassion.[21] There remains no definition of necessary and sufficient criteria for meditation that has achieved universal or widespread acceptance within the modern scientific community.
Why is your tone so angry and condescending? In context, the GP is just saying that cardio and reading is not really equivalent to mediation. He's not wrong.
When someone issues a correction and that correction is absolutely wrong, they are actively causing harm. They went out of their way to be wrong.
Even the word "meditation" comes from a phrase that can mean either quiet reflection on a topic, such as reading, or a deep intense self focus (how we tend to use it).
Exercise absolutely can be a form of meditative practice and there are still monks who do this practice today!
Reading a text and meditating on it, especially in a religious context, is thousands of years old and goes back to the earliest books and book like things we have (eg clay tablets).
This idea that meditation is where you sit and listen to an app and have self awareness is a very modern interpretation. It's not wrong - if that is useful for you, then do it - but to pretend anything that isn't vibing in a darkened room isn't meditation is plain wrong.
> GP is just saying that cardio and reading is not really equivalent to mediation
Both you and GP are incorrect on the most basic of levels. If you insist on correcting others at the very least read the rather good wikipedia page on the topic.
Even the word "meditation" comes from a phrase that can mean either quiet reflection on a topic, such as reading, or a deep intense self focus (how we tend to use it).
Exercise absolutely can be a form of meditative practice and there are still monks who do this practice today!
Reading a text and meditating on it, especially in a religious context, is thousands of years old and goes back to the earliest books and book like things we have (eg clay tablets).
This idea that meditation is where you sit and listen to an app and have self awareness is a very modern interpretation. It's not wrong - if that is useful for you, then do it - but to pretend anything that isn't vibing in a darkened room isn't meditation is plain wrong.
> GP is just saying that cardio and reading is not really equivalent to mediation
Both you and GP are incorrect on the most basic of levels. If you insist on correcting others at the very least read the rather good wikipedia page on the topic.
If I say, “EXERCISE is a physical activity” in the context of a discussion about physical exercise, and you say “No, EXERCISE can also be a mental exercise” you are being 100% asinine.
For someone who seems versed in many of the schools of meditation, you seem bitter and condescending. What's the point of all that snark? And here, of all places. If they are wrong, teach them — but not in that tone.
> For someone who seems versed in many of the schools of meditation, you seem bitter and condescending.
The idea that being a practicioner of meditation somehow brings you to be a spaced out peace loving beatnik is a fiction created by Hollywood.
> If they are wrong, teach them — but not in that tone.
You can not add to a full glass.
The idea that being a practicioner of meditation somehow brings you to be a spaced out peace loving beatnik is a fiction created by Hollywood.
> If they are wrong, teach them — but not in that tone.
You can not add to a full glass.
I used Headspace for about a year ~5 years ago. Before that, I had tried meditation randomly but hadn’t gotten much out of it. After a few months of using the app, I learned enough to see the benefits. It helped get me to a point where I also added IRL meditation classes and community.
I no longer use the app, but I’ve maintained a practice since. The app was useful as training wheels / structure. I was motivated to learn about meditation and it helped me.
I think any number of free resources could have worked, but paying and having structure was a motivator to continue.
I no longer use the app, but I’ve maintained a practice since. The app was useful as training wheels / structure. I was motivated to learn about meditation and it helped me.
I think any number of free resources could have worked, but paying and having structure was a motivator to continue.
I feel like these apps are much like 24-hour gyms. The profits are because nobody uses them but says they will use them one day.
I love the headspace story and the founder Andy Puddicombe. His mission is a real one of literally "spreading awareness" to everyone.
I've had a subscription to headspace for over 3 years now(corporate discount) and used it tons when I first started to learn about meditation. However 3 years wiser, I realize that I don't need a guide and do it all myself. I forgot I was subscribed until I saw this!
Much like exercise if you don't do it everyday, you get bored of it quickly. I really enjoyed the NBA series on headspace that I would use to kick-ass at work for awhile before I finished it and nothing else seemed interesting.
I also used their sleepcasts for awhile when battling insomnia. I enjoyed them but then found myself able to fall asleep naturally because I changed my habits to work out more and would be physical tired by the end of the night.
All in all, I think headspace can truly change your life. It just depends on how you decide to go about it. Meditation, awareness, mindfulness, and many of the skills it teaches are some of the most important skills to be getting accustomed to throughout one's life. I don't think I'll ever stop meditating or practicing in my life, but I am at the point where I no longer need these apps after 3 years.
I love the headspace story and the founder Andy Puddicombe. His mission is a real one of literally "spreading awareness" to everyone.
I've had a subscription to headspace for over 3 years now(corporate discount) and used it tons when I first started to learn about meditation. However 3 years wiser, I realize that I don't need a guide and do it all myself. I forgot I was subscribed until I saw this!
Much like exercise if you don't do it everyday, you get bored of it quickly. I really enjoyed the NBA series on headspace that I would use to kick-ass at work for awhile before I finished it and nothing else seemed interesting.
I also used their sleepcasts for awhile when battling insomnia. I enjoyed them but then found myself able to fall asleep naturally because I changed my habits to work out more and would be physical tired by the end of the night.
All in all, I think headspace can truly change your life. It just depends on how you decide to go about it. Meditation, awareness, mindfulness, and many of the skills it teaches are some of the most important skills to be getting accustomed to throughout one's life. I don't think I'll ever stop meditating or practicing in my life, but I am at the point where I no longer need these apps after 3 years.
The intro course in Headspace is amazing. I had to experience with meditation and Andy really explained it well. It completely changed what I thought meditation was. But then, afterwards, he made it so simple I didn’t need the app at all.
You’re right about his story. His book is great, simply for the first quarter where he tells how he got where he is.
You’re right about his story. His book is great, simply for the first quarter where he tells how he got where he is.
If you like the book, you’ll love the audiobook. Same content, but Andy reads it. It’s a great listen, especially if you haven’t read the book before.
That said, the book is simply presented and somewhat repetitive, so the material doesn’t exactly stand up to repeated listens much. But it’s still fun :)
The Headspace Guide to Mindfulness & Meditation audiobook by Andy Puddicombe https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/andy-puddicombe/the-headsp... (can be found on Audible, Kobo, Audiobooks.com etc.)
Has a few guided meditations at the end of the audiobook, though you might also get some value from the various ones posted for free by Headspace on their social media: https://youtube.com/c/headspace
That said, the book is simply presented and somewhat repetitive, so the material doesn’t exactly stand up to repeated listens much. But it’s still fun :)
The Headspace Guide to Mindfulness & Meditation audiobook by Andy Puddicombe https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/andy-puddicombe/the-headsp... (can be found on Audible, Kobo, Audiobooks.com etc.)
Has a few guided meditations at the end of the audiobook, though you might also get some value from the various ones posted for free by Headspace on their social media: https://youtube.com/c/headspace
Exactly! I think headspace ran out of Andy content and so did my interest after that!
I got the most lasting value out of the free UCLA Marc guided meditation sessions[0] which now have an app. When I first used them years ago it was only a list of recordings on a web page. In that time I've tried a few of the other apps that have popped up, and was grandfathered into the Waking Up lifetime membership, but I always think that MARC gave me more lasting benefit than, for instance, the guided meditations in Waking Up. However, this could be due to MARC being my first real introduction into meditation practice that I stuck with, and the others would never have that chance.
[0] https://www.uclahealth.org/marc/mindful-meditations
[0] https://www.uclahealth.org/marc/mindful-meditations
Oh cool, I'd almost forgotten about those guided meditations! I used to listen to them a fair bit, not sure what happened to that habit. But good to know that they have an app now, thanks for the info!
You should check out Medito - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=meditofoundati.... It's free & non-profit with daily sessions. No need to pay for anything like this imo, but I have donated to Medito because they offer a good service, for free, and for the right reasons.
Fwiw, the benefit I've found is just in a more general mindfulness, and meditation can be part of that. Notice yourself tensing or clenching your jaw, and make a conscious effort to reduce that. Pay attention when something feels good, or hurts to think about. It has given me some modicum of clarity and engagement I didn't before.
Fwiw, the benefit I've found is just in a more general mindfulness, and meditation can be part of that. Notice yourself tensing or clenching your jaw, and make a conscious effort to reduce that. Pay attention when something feels good, or hurts to think about. It has given me some modicum of clarity and engagement I didn't before.
I do wonder why it's not on fdroid. Downloaded anyway, Exodus says no trackers. Daily meditation by 2 different people. This is rad, I'm going to try using it for a week.
Tried it (Calm, Headspace) several times but it didn't really work for me; what worked for me instead is just using Otter.AI to make voice memos and so that helped me to get things out of my head.
Same here. I fire up Otter during longer car rides and it’s great for just dumping out thoughts and clearing my mind.
The apps are only what you make of them. It’s like going to the gym, but for your mind.
Are you willing to make mindfulness in to a lifestyle? If you are, it’ll be worth the money, just like a gym membership.
I personally found that mindfulness practice helped me recognize anxiety, stress and illogical thoughts, take a moment to realign with a more objective reality and therefore improve my personal life (i.e. realizing my anxious thought was unsupported by any objective evidence and alter my behavior to be more logical.)
Are you willing to make mindfulness in to a lifestyle? If you are, it’ll be worth the money, just like a gym membership.
I personally found that mindfulness practice helped me recognize anxiety, stress and illogical thoughts, take a moment to realign with a more objective reality and therefore improve my personal life (i.e. realizing my anxious thought was unsupported by any objective evidence and alter my behavior to be more logical.)
I tried headspace for a while. I think it's possible it could be helpful but what really helped me at the time was getting in the habit of a regular practice of silent meditation. I found this much better than guided meditation and ultimately just used headspace as a timer.
The common recommendation, which I also now believe is correct, is that meditation will only work if you do it as close to daily as possible and the sessions must last pretty long, like 40-60 minutes. I found that when I managed this level of practice, I was actually developing the skills and getting somewhere with meditation. Doing 10 minutes guided meditation every once in a while when you feel stressed won't bring much. It's like trying to get fit, it won't happen if you just do a few pushups once in a while, you need a pretty strict routine.
So, like most good things in life, you really have to work for it. And that's not something that's easy to sell in app form.
The common recommendation, which I also now believe is correct, is that meditation will only work if you do it as close to daily as possible and the sessions must last pretty long, like 40-60 minutes. I found that when I managed this level of practice, I was actually developing the skills and getting somewhere with meditation. Doing 10 minutes guided meditation every once in a while when you feel stressed won't bring much. It's like trying to get fit, it won't happen if you just do a few pushups once in a while, you need a pretty strict routine.
So, like most good things in life, you really have to work for it. And that's not something that's easy to sell in app form.
Personally I’ve found even 10 mins a day can be helpful, but absolutely it does have to be a regular habit.
I've always held a strong opinion about meditation apps, especially something like Headspace, which was founded by an ex-Buddhist. And, the fact that these apps also charge _money_ is just dumb. The strawman argument is that, "Yeah, but some people need guidance.". Which doesn't make any sense. You have to learn to guide yourself.
For a lot of people, these apps are an excuse to go and poster themselves as "spiritually aligned", "woke" and all kinds of other nonsense. And yet they fail to sit down with themselves, completely unplugged, and find that moment of peace that will come once the mind slows down.
Those scientific benefits can be achieved without apps. They just throw that stuff in your face to make you pay them money for a service that doesn't need paying for. Seriously.
For a lot of people, these apps are an excuse to go and poster themselves as "spiritually aligned", "woke" and all kinds of other nonsense. And yet they fail to sit down with themselves, completely unplugged, and find that moment of peace that will come once the mind slows down.
Those scientific benefits can be achieved without apps. They just throw that stuff in your face to make you pay them money for a service that doesn't need paying for. Seriously.
I think there’s some benefits to guided meditation in general. Different techniques (body scanning, breath counting, etc) aren’t necessarily obvious to people looking to meditate.
People also come to meditation for different reasons. Some want to chill out, others want to be more present in every day life.
I assume you’re well practiced so you’ll know that ultimately apps aren’t what you need for “real” meditation. I think they’re a good starting point for many though.
People also come to meditation for different reasons. Some want to chill out, others want to be more present in every day life.
I assume you’re well practiced so you’ll know that ultimately apps aren’t what you need for “real” meditation. I think they’re a good starting point for many though.
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I have struggled with depression and anxiety for most of my life. I just completed a full year without depression for the first time in my life, and a big part of that in my view is my use of headspace every day. I just crossed the 365 days in a row mark and I’m really proud of the progress I’ve made.
I use it not only for guided meditations (which really help my anxiety) but also and almost more importantly, I use it for sleep. The wind down visualization is a nightly ritual for me, and sleep casts are great for when you want to let your mind wander off to rest.
I am in no way affiliated with headspace, ymmv, but I’ve had great success with it and happily pay yearly.
I use it not only for guided meditations (which really help my anxiety) but also and almost more importantly, I use it for sleep. The wind down visualization is a nightly ritual for me, and sleep casts are great for when you want to let your mind wander off to rest.
I am in no way affiliated with headspace, ymmv, but I’ve had great success with it and happily pay yearly.
The biggest benefit I’ve received in order are from these 3 apps:
Way of Life (habit tracker). Since using it I’ve been much more consistent with important habits like working out, flossing, gratitude.
5 minute journal - I use this primarily as a gratitude journal. We train our brains to look for errors (debugging software, sending out VC rejection letters, lawyers looking for mistakes etc) and this forces you to search for and find good things. It’s helped tremendously in my marriage.
Waking Up - meditation app already discussed in this thread.
Easy enough to find free replacements for the first two if needed. Waking Up is great for learning - the content Sam provides is like nothing else I’ve found.
Way of Life (habit tracker). Since using it I’ve been much more consistent with important habits like working out, flossing, gratitude.
5 minute journal - I use this primarily as a gratitude journal. We train our brains to look for errors (debugging software, sending out VC rejection letters, lawyers looking for mistakes etc) and this forces you to search for and find good things. It’s helped tremendously in my marriage.
Waking Up - meditation app already discussed in this thread.
Easy enough to find free replacements for the first two if needed. Waking Up is great for learning - the content Sam provides is like nothing else I’ve found.
As someone who does an hour of meditation a day, I don't think you need an app. I used to use one of the main ones but no longer do. You just need some kind of timer. What works best for me is actually the timer app on my Apple Watch, which I have set to vibrate instead of making a sound. It's a gentle way to end a meditation session.
Additionally there are physical meditation bells which make wonderful, rich sounds. My wife and I often use one when we meditate together; she rings it at the beginning of a session and I ring it at the end after my watch timer goes off.
Additionally there are physical meditation bells which make wonderful, rich sounds. My wife and I often use one when we meditate together; she rings it at the beginning of a session and I ring it at the end after my watch timer goes off.
Easily 99.99% of all "apps" have no utility or value.
It's one of the reasons why I'm serious considering a dumb phone - save money and less distraction/uselessness. I don't really see too much being lost by stepping down. People already call me "the human GPS" because my sense of direction usually doesn't require using GPS devices. I don't "do" social media. Most of what I do professionally does not require a smart phone in any way, shape or form.
It's one of the reasons why I'm serious considering a dumb phone - save money and less distraction/uselessness. I don't really see too much being lost by stepping down. People already call me "the human GPS" because my sense of direction usually doesn't require using GPS devices. I don't "do" social media. Most of what I do professionally does not require a smart phone in any way, shape or form.
I’ve not used headspace specifically all that much, but I do think meditation is very helpful. You don’t necessarily need an app for it[0], but they can help provide some structure.
[0]: There are books you can use as guides instead, or local meditation centers, or to start: every morning sit for 10 minutes with your back straight, eyes closed, and focus on the physical sensations of breathing. You’ll get distracted; when you notice, just begin focusing on the breath again.
[0]: There are books you can use as guides instead, or local meditation centers, or to start: every morning sit for 10 minutes with your back straight, eyes closed, and focus on the physical sensations of breathing. You’ll get distracted; when you notice, just begin focusing on the breath again.
I've been diagnosed with anxiety and ADHD. I wanted an alternative to medication and subscribed to Headspace. I allotted 60 days and 5 to 15 minutes a morning for meditation. For the last two weeks of the experiment, I increased the time to 30 minutes, and occasionally sat down twice a day. During this time, I was also reading "The Power Of Now" by Eckart Tolle. After the 60 days I reduced my practice back to a couple days a week.
The first few days felt silly. I didn't feel an improvement, understand what the point of meditation was, and didn't believe I was doing it correctly. Gradually over time, I began to feel more relaxed throughout the day. Situations that would normally cause my anxiety to rise did not affect me. My focus improved drastically and I was able to concentrate for longer. I felt exponentially more comfortable in social situations. In one specific instance at the height of my practice, I had two different friends comment positively on a noticeable difference in my “energy”.
Towards the end of my 60 days, I increased the time I was sitting down since I experienced a marginal improvement. The unexpected consequence was that I no longer cared about most things. I won’t say I was enlightened by any means, but I no longer needed external stimulus or material things to be happy. I felt indifferent towards most critical components of my life. Why did I need a job? Why do I need money? To buy material objects I don’t need? This pattern of though cascaded across all other aspects of my life. At this point in time, I legitimately believe I could be homeless and happy.
This transcendence scared me, and I cut down to a couple days a week. As it turns out, even balance needs balance.
The first few days felt silly. I didn't feel an improvement, understand what the point of meditation was, and didn't believe I was doing it correctly. Gradually over time, I began to feel more relaxed throughout the day. Situations that would normally cause my anxiety to rise did not affect me. My focus improved drastically and I was able to concentrate for longer. I felt exponentially more comfortable in social situations. In one specific instance at the height of my practice, I had two different friends comment positively on a noticeable difference in my “energy”.
Towards the end of my 60 days, I increased the time I was sitting down since I experienced a marginal improvement. The unexpected consequence was that I no longer cared about most things. I won’t say I was enlightened by any means, but I no longer needed external stimulus or material things to be happy. I felt indifferent towards most critical components of my life. Why did I need a job? Why do I need money? To buy material objects I don’t need? This pattern of though cascaded across all other aspects of my life. At this point in time, I legitimately believe I could be homeless and happy.
This transcendence scared me, and I cut down to a couple days a week. As it turns out, even balance needs balance.
For those that do find these useful, do you have a mental image? The "close your eyes and focus your attention on something" just falls very flat for me. I did have a decent experience with counting things. Breaths, steps, pedals, stairs, etc. That said, I don't really think I can claim any lasting improvement from anything. (Besides the exercise...)
I found out the book “mindfulness in plain English” quite for learning a bit more.
I say “learning” but the book also describes that there’s no rush to get anywhere in meditation/mindfulness.
I say “learning” but the book also describes that there’s no rush to get anywhere in meditation/mindfulness.
Personally the Whim Hof method has been a game changer for me. The breathing exercises are the fastest way to clear my head, even if you never do the cold exposure training he's famous for. I believe he has an app that guides you through his meditations/breathing but there's also plenty of YouTube videos that walk you through it as well.
It's possible to set up a daily reminder system for helping yourself with ah, 'behavioral modification' etc. using Linux and cron:
> "Cron is one of Linux’s most useful tools and a developer favorite because it allows you to run automated commands at specific periods, dates, and intervals using both general-purpose and task-specific scripts. Given that description, you can imagine how system admins use it to automate backup tasks, directory cleaning, notifications, etc."
For example, one could get a cheap Raspberry Pi, set it up as a server on your local network, and use cron to have it send your phone daily email alerts about taking care of yourself on a particular schedule. Hmmm FOSS project?
[Edit re OP question: I wouldn't use pre-packaged apps for this because of the motivation issue. If I build something myself I'm far more likely to use it, because I want some kind of payoff for that original input of effort.]
> "Cron is one of Linux’s most useful tools and a developer favorite because it allows you to run automated commands at specific periods, dates, and intervals using both general-purpose and task-specific scripts. Given that description, you can imagine how system admins use it to automate backup tasks, directory cleaning, notifications, etc."
For example, one could get a cheap Raspberry Pi, set it up as a server on your local network, and use cron to have it send your phone daily email alerts about taking care of yourself on a particular schedule. Hmmm FOSS project?
[Edit re OP question: I wouldn't use pre-packaged apps for this because of the motivation issue. If I build something myself I'm far more likely to use it, because I want some kind of payoff for that original input of effort.]
Or, a recurring calendar invite. Or a million other solutions. But what about responding to OP and the question they asked?
I think SMS might be a bit better than email for this.
I did this on my Mac for a while using cron and OSAScript to show a desktop notification.
https://www.breckenridge.dev/2021/10/12/using-cron-and-mac-n...
I did this on my Mac for a while using cron and OSAScript to show a desktop notification.
https://www.breckenridge.dev/2021/10/12/using-cron-and-mac-n...
No need for so much complexity. Set an alarm or use something like Automate on Fdroid that can trigger notifications and sms. I think termux can run tasks as well.
It looks like calendar app will be the same but easier.
I was completely burnt out. Like ACTUALLY burnt out with almost all the symptoms. Headspace definitely helped me on bad days. If i was feeling a panic attack coming on I'd stop what I was doing and use Headspace to recenter myself. I'd use it on stressful days to help calm down.
I'm very thankful for it.
I'm very thankful for it.
I Paid for the fabulous app for some time, honestly, it helped a little only at the beginning and I think it is because we are committed to getting better and kind excited about it.
But it seems not to be that helpful after some time, even with those thousand features (That for my country is really expensive).
"In my case" what really helped was consulting with a psychologist every week, committing to get better with a person that also is committed to helping you.
I think the apps really help if you use them as a secondary tool for improvement, commitment, the problem is that they sell it to us like a miracle, which is not (because is easy to ignore a cellphone notification).
I tried a related app for weight loss (Noom) and have lost 40 pounds so far. I imagine the cost is a filtering mechanism. People who feel it is worth it to pay past the 7 day trial are the ones who will get the most benefit from what the app offers.
I'm developing right now an app like fabulous for tracking your routines & habits. Personally, what I can say - if you stick to routines, you will feel better & have more energy, it is a crucial part of your life.
I specifically wanted to learn meditation several years ago and used the headspace app to do so. After going through their several basic programs and then the various 'pro' levels I stopped needing the app to meditate.
The app was invaluable to learn how to sit quietly and control my mind but after like ~2 / 3 months it stopped being useful as I was much less interested in the 'medititaion for running" "meditation for relationships" etc. I just wanted to learn the basics and not apply the meditation to a specific topic. For that it was great. As with anything though, YMMV
The app was invaluable to learn how to sit quietly and control my mind but after like ~2 / 3 months it stopped being useful as I was much less interested in the 'medititaion for running" "meditation for relationships" etc. I just wanted to learn the basics and not apply the meditation to a specific topic. For that it was great. As with anything though, YMMV
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Some friends / former colleagues an awesome app called Finch, which uses a bit of a behavioral tweak. Often, when you're feeling down, it's hard to take care of yourself in a disciplined way (eg mediation apps).
So Finch uses the concept of a virtual pet (with a twist) and, in taking care of the pet, you end up taking care of yourself. It's brilliant. (Also mostly free but with a paid upgrade).
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.finch.finc...
So Finch uses the concept of a virtual pet (with a twist) and, in taking care of the pet, you end up taking care of yourself. It's brilliant. (Also mostly free but with a paid upgrade).
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.finch.finc...
I used Headspace's mindful meditation for a few weeks to attempt to manage some work related stress in an old job. It did help me a little bit initially but it wasn't helping with the root cause of the problem (that the job sucked and I should look for another one).
I know people who have really benefited from mindful meditation as a means to manage stress though so I don't doubt it does help some people. Possibly better for the types of stress and anxiety that builds up over time from a mixture of sources than solely from one obvious cause like in my case.
I know people who have really benefited from mindful meditation as a means to manage stress though so I don't doubt it does help some people. Possibly better for the types of stress and anxiety that builds up over time from a mixture of sources than solely from one obvious cause like in my case.
I did headspace quite regularly for a year. I think its asmr-like sleep talkdowns helped me much more than the meditation parts. Of those, the “active meditation sessions” (walking meditation, commuting meditation) worked better for me than the more “traditional” sit-down-and-close-your—eyes ones. Those made me more aware about how easily distracted I was, and how easily my mind wanders, but I saw no improvements on that department despite practicing regularly for many months. After trying the mindful eating one, I now enjoy eating meat less.
I did Headspace daily for awhile and want to get back to it. Even though I don't do it daily or even regularly anymore, it made me infinitely more aware of how I can deal with stress and other negative emotions by slowing down, focusing on my breath for a couple minutes, and taking a break from the dramatic and spiraling emotions that can feel so consuming. I now find myself subconsciously calming myself by regulating my breath when I'm in an argument or feeling great distress or grief.
It's been a nice positive in my life :)
It's been a nice positive in my life :)
I use Insight Timer, completely free. I just use the timer mode in the app, so I can see my stats overtime.
Meditation is one of those things that you do not notice immediate benefits. It takes a couple of weeks.
Start with 5 mins a day and aim to build up to 10mins.
Has it transformed my life? Probably not.
Has it helped me stay calmer under high pressure situations? Absolutely.
The biggest change is you start to become self aware of how you are feeling.
"okay, I am feeling anxious and can feel my heartrate accelerating. That's okay, let's just focus on my breathing and stay calm"
Etc
Meditation is one of those things that you do not notice immediate benefits. It takes a couple of weeks.
Start with 5 mins a day and aim to build up to 10mins.
Has it transformed my life? Probably not.
Has it helped me stay calmer under high pressure situations? Absolutely.
The biggest change is you start to become self aware of how you are feeling.
"okay, I am feeling anxious and can feel my heartrate accelerating. That's okay, let's just focus on my breathing and stay calm"
Etc
Found headspace helpful but only really noticed after a month where I made time for it every morning. In particular I appreciated some of the techniques in different courses - different forms of attention and focus, noting, visualization. My consistency has fallen off and I can see an impact on ability to find and stay in flow; but even without a regular practice I find I’m more aware of when and how I get distracted and don’t fall quite as far away from it.
I’ve used Headspace for years and it changed my life. Guided meditation and learning how to work with my emotions has gotten me through some rough times and PTSD. The amount of content in the app like daily videos, exercises, sleep aid and more keeps me there. Headspace is expensive, but I renew every year because it works for me. The only negative I have to add is they they need to make a decent iPad app.
I’m happy it’s worked for you, that’s my experience too!
I have spent a considerable amount of time using various apps. I wanted to build better habits and procrastinate less.
The app that helped me was free. It was Google Family link. Using this app, I was able to disable chrome and youtube from my android phone. This did cut down on my procrastinating hours.
The app that helped me was free. It was Google Family link. Using this app, I was able to disable chrome and youtube from my android phone. This did cut down on my procrastinating hours.
I've used headspace almost everyday for meditation for years - I used to do there programmes but now just do the daily meditation. And every night, I put on the sleep stories. I also put on pooch palace sleep story for my son each night.
Absolutely love it - well worth the money for me.
Absolutely love it - well worth the money for me.
I also did one or two years daily headspace and it helped me a lot. At some point I stopped, but I need to get back to it. I also used a headspace sleep meditation often. Now that you mentioned the pooch palace sleep story, I searched for it everywhere but did not find it. Where can I get it?
I’m sure others have, but I’ve gotten no real life benefit they as these apps require attention and fiddling.
And notifications (of which I don’t have many) get in the way. I could configure some Do Not Disturb mode, but so far, it’s been less trouble just to use something less technical.
And notifications (of which I don’t have many) get in the way. I could configure some Do Not Disturb mode, but so far, it’s been less trouble just to use something less technical.
I've gotten a lot of Headspace. A 20 minute meditation really helps calm down my runaway brain. Do I need an app to meditate? Of course not. However, my crazy brain can manage to open the app and start a meditation session and the audio keeps me on track.
I used headspace for a bit. I think if the workplace'll pay for it it's definitely worth using, but regular yoga and meditation is less expensive. IMO the hard part isn't how you meditate, it's just making time to do it to begin with
I use Headspace daily and it changed my life. Daily guided meditation has gotten me through some really rough time and PTSD. The app has so much in it with exercises, sleep assistance and daily videos. I’ve paid for it for years and will likely continue.
I've tried headspace, fabulous, and a few others I don't remember. Fabulous was awful, I hated it. Headspace was good but it never really clicked with me enough to continue using it.
I started with the app and then after about half a year stopped using it and started exploring further. I think headspace and waking up are good. But after a while I wanted to go deeper
You have to really commit to the process that the app puts you through can’t just do it randomly. I noticed some benefits with Calm but only if I did it everyday.
Optimize.me (free) is a life changer. I’ve also started using their new paid coaching/scheduling app, Heroic.
certainly not my thing, i think it's waste of time
apps won't replace a therapist
i'm saying this as a paying Headspace user :D
apps won't replace a therapist
i'm saying this as a paying Headspace user :D
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I think they do work but until you learn the basics, afterwards is just burning money
My kids use headspace for win-down and sleep and it helps.
I used Waking Up pretty regularly for a year or two. In the first week or two I found profound benefits. I started to appreciate the sensations and imagery of things around me (something that Sam Harris focuses on). I was able to pay attention through an entire boring weekly all-hands meeting with no trouble for the first time ever. My focus performing work improved similarly.
After that my experience regressed back to beneficial but not profound. By the end of it, I couldn't even meditate anymore.
Lots of things in life seem to follow this pattern for me. At least this one was somewhat beneficial for a longer time.
After that my experience regressed back to beneficial but not profound. By the end of it, I couldn't even meditate anymore.
Lots of things in life seem to follow this pattern for me. At least this one was somewhat beneficial for a longer time.
headspace helped with my insomnia immensely.
I went on popular podcast to discuss the life altering benefits and cross promoted my unrelated ebook and self help program. Now I make 7 figures working 4 hours a week from Bali. I've never used any of these apps or meditated once, I have severe ADHD, slight brain damage from a scooter accident and short term memory loss from all the weed. Aurora rocks. AMA.
Unfortunately most of them are free for only 7 days or 10 days and followed with a steep cost. I'm okay paying if there are any real benefits but the reviews are really mixed on the play store.
So just wondering what you guys think? Has any such app has had real life benefits? What do you think?