Mailable Live Animals(pe.usps.com)
pe.usps.com
Mailable Live Animals
https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_008.htm
166 comments
Tell your teenager the world needs more people like him if we’re going to save the worlds insects. We need more entomologist.
I don’t know, insects have been doing pretty well for a long time, and only one large group of insects that we know of has ever gone extinct, even during the absolutely horrific Permian-Triassic extinction event.
I know as humans our impulse is to “do something about it”, but I think insects are gonna be fine.
I know as humans our impulse is to “do something about it”, but I think insects are gonna be fine.
Insects may do fine, but individual species are another story.
For example through most of Los Angeles, if you see an ant it is probably an Argentine ant (Linepithema humile). Over my son's life, the variety of native ants to be found near me has visibly declined.
For example through most of Los Angeles, if you see an ant it is probably an Argentine ant (Linepithema humile). Over my son's life, the variety of native ants to be found near me has visibly declined.
That's probably not so much climate change as it is invading foreign species.
And the reduction in flying insects documented in https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... is unlikely to be climate change either. Nor is https://www.epa.gov/pollinator-protection/colony-collapse-di....
Not everything is about climate change.
Not everything is about climate change.
What isn't about climate change soon will be.
Sure insects in general will be "fine", but ecosystems will have to be rebuilt over time with the different dynamics.
Take bees/pollinators. Another species could evolve or otherwise step in to fill the gap, but it could well result in many other plant and animal species also going extinct in the process.
Similar scenario with climate change. The earth will continue to exist and there will continue to be weather. But that weather could be a lot more inhospitable to our very narrow definition of habitable.
Take bees/pollinators. Another species could evolve or otherwise step in to fill the gap, but it could well result in many other plant and animal species also going extinct in the process.
Similar scenario with climate change. The earth will continue to exist and there will continue to be weather. But that weather could be a lot more inhospitable to our very narrow definition of habitable.
Yes, I know global warming doesn't mean the end of the (human) world as many suspect and are skeptical about. Humans will find a way to survive in special habitats and in much smaller numbers. What's at stake is the current civilization. With civilization's collapse we're bound to repeat this progress to self-destruction cycle.
And I appreciated the parent (pun not intended) for being interested in kid's uncommon hobby.
The ants in my garden can probably repopulate the whole world. At least it feels that way.
Actually there are two species that were made legal to ship in the US last year. More information (and for sale) here. [0]
[0] https://tarheelants.com/pages/ant-queen-and-colony-adoption
[0] https://tarheelants.com/pages/ant-queen-and-colony-adoption
Awesome.
I wish they were legal a decade ago when we were trying to figure out how to buy ant farms...
I wish they were legal a decade ago when we were trying to figure out how to buy ant farms...
That is really interesting! I never had an ant farm, and I'm glad I didn't given what you've said.
Are ants similar to bees in that there's one egg-laying "queen" that you have to gather, or can you just gather a collection of individuals from a colony?
Your kid probably already knows about this, but have him check out the YouTuber AntsCanada. I'm not particularly into ants but I find his videos fascinating.
Are ants similar to bees in that there's one egg-laying "queen" that you have to gather, or can you just gather a collection of individuals from a colony?
Your kid probably already knows about this, but have him check out the YouTuber AntsCanada. I'm not particularly into ants but I find his videos fascinating.
Ants have queens. Ants are a kind of flightless wasp, they have a lot of commonalities with the wasp/bee family.
My kid has been aware of AntsCanada for a long time, and has purchased lots of supplies from them.
Yes, most ants are similar to bees in that way. In fact ants and bees are very closely related. But a few kinds of ants (for example the invasive Argentine ants), can have multiple queens in a colony that cooperate with each other.
The reason for this rule is the ease with which ants become invasive species, and how much damage they can do.
Yes, most ants are similar to bees in that way. In fact ants and bees are very closely related. But a few kinds of ants (for example the invasive Argentine ants), can have multiple queens in a colony that cooperate with each other.
The reason for this rule is the ease with which ants become invasive species, and how much damage they can do.
Does your kid know about SimAnt?
He's at school so I can't just ask him.
But if it comes to ants, I'm willing to bet money that he knows it.
I remember being at a bug fair with him a few years back. There was a grad student with a display including some fossilized ants. My son came over, looked, identified the genus, began pointing out the identifying characteristics and named multiple related current species. The grad student's jaw dropped open. The only things that the grad student knew which my son didn't was how old the fossil was and where it was found.
And here is some fun trivia. If you look, between the thorax (where the legs grow) and the gaster (the bulb at the end), there is a very, very skinny petiole. The only food that can pass through that and keep the ant alive is high energy fluid. So a major problem for every species of ant is how to turn the world around into such a fluid so that they can eat it.
But if it comes to ants, I'm willing to bet money that he knows it.
I remember being at a bug fair with him a few years back. There was a grad student with a display including some fossilized ants. My son came over, looked, identified the genus, began pointing out the identifying characteristics and named multiple related current species. The grad student's jaw dropped open. The only things that the grad student knew which my son didn't was how old the fossil was and where it was found.
And here is some fun trivia. If you look, between the thorax (where the legs grow) and the gaster (the bulb at the end), there is a very, very skinny petiole. The only food that can pass through that and keep the ant alive is high energy fluid. So a major problem for every species of ant is how to turn the world around into such a fluid so that they can eat it.
Yep, my son did buy his first colony from a local college kid, through the GAN Project: https://www.antscanada.com/queen-ants-for-sale/. Since he was away, his mom brought the colony to us, we met discreetly at a library, felt a bit like a spy transaction :-)
This whole time I thought I did something wrong.
Huh, this is certainly legal in Europe. You get colonies with a queen and some workers, even non-native species. Always asked myself if that wouldn't facilitate invasions of foreign species into the eco system because ants are pretty apt at escaping.
That probably varies by country.
I'm familiar with US laws because I live under them.
I'm familiar with US laws because I live under them.
Can you ship fertile ants through UPS or Fedex?
I love lists like this. I remember waiting for a Greyhound bus and reading the list of prohibited items and imagining the stories behind each one. It ran on for pages. Human heads were not allowed, even if frozen. Martial arts weapons like swords, nunchucks and throwing stars got a section all their own, separate from guns and knives. Each type of bodily fluid was listed separately, lest someone assume that their jar of urine didn't count.
There was an incident maybe 30 years ago where a medical school employee went into New York (I think it was) to pick up a batch of human heads to be used for teaching purposes. He left the box in his car while taking care of another errand, and it was stolen.
The box was found sitting on the sidewalk a few blocks away, with the heads still in it.
One can only imagine what went through the thief's mind when he opened his "prize".
The box was found sitting on the sidewalk a few blocks away, with the heads still in it.
One can only imagine what went through the thief's mind when he opened his "prize".
Regardless of the thief, it does seem a little concerning that the chain of custody for actual human heads involves being left unattended in a random employee's car.
The world is not nearly as tightly controlled as one might think. Lots of stuff is just some normal person's job to not lose track of.
Body parts are only super custody tracked when they are still viable lifesaving tools (ie organ transplant). Besides that they aren't a huge deal.
Body parts are only super custody tracked when they are still viable lifesaving tools (ie organ transplant). Besides that they aren't a huge deal.
Once they've been relegated to the heap of experimentation they really don't need to be controlled that much. Oddly I would feel in some way violated if a loved one of mine had died and his/her head were in that box, but if it happened to my own head I would pay it no mind.
There was a news splash several years ago about a body donation intended for Alzheimer's research which was used for military explosives testing: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-body...
Now that is something I would sign on for
A lab I worked in while I was in college had a freezer with a bunch of human heads in it. pretty creepy.
I don't know, I wouldn't expect heads to be a popular target of thievery.
This was probably the gruesome incident that got heads banned:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean
> On February 10, 2017, the Manitoba Criminal Code Review Board ordered Li be discharged. Li was granted an absolute discharge. There will be no legal obligations or restrictions pertaining to Li's independent living.
0_0
I understand that mens rea should generally be present in crimes in order for convictions but eight years for doing what he did is itself insane.
Reading up on his background, I wonder if he just snapped and killed the guy out of anger for whatever reason and then started cannibalizing the corpse so that he could play the mental illness card at court.
Reading up on his background, I wonder if he just snapped and killed the guy out of anger for whatever reason and then started cannibalizing the corpse so that he could play the mental illness card at court.
If someone has an epileptic seizure or a diabetic goes into hypoglycemic shock whilst driving and gets into a head on collision and kills someone should they go to prison? They call it mental illness for a reason.
I’ve known people with epilepsy who were banned from driving due to this possibly. If they had driven and gotten a seizure and killed someone, they would have been driving with a reckless disregard for the safety of others, which is enough of a mens rea to form intention for some level of murder conviction.
It is likely this is largely true, even if not formally banned from driving, so the answer is probably yes to your hypothetical they should go to prison, or pulling the normative phrase out, likely would go to prison (subject to many mitigating factors).
It is likely this is largely true, even if not formally banned from driving, so the answer is probably yes to your hypothetical they should go to prison, or pulling the normative phrase out, likely would go to prison (subject to many mitigating factors).
Perhaps epilepsy was a bad choice. How about for cardiac arrest, stroke, or any number of undiagnosed medical conditions that could cause someone to create dangerous/fatal conditions outside of their control?
> They call it mental illness for a reason.
Even if we accept your premise that having a mental illness precludes one from taking responsibility for their actions, you still have to deal with the fact that they are a serious danger to society. One of the uses of prison is to take people who would otherwise murder and eat people and remove them from society, so that they can't do that.
Even if we accept your premise that having a mental illness precludes one from taking responsibility for their actions, you still have to deal with the fact that they are a serious danger to society. One of the uses of prison is to take people who would otherwise murder and eat people and remove them from society, so that they can't do that.
Even if that's true, that's still well beyond a reasonable bound of sanity. Agreed that 8 years seems a bit light though, considering the notoriety of the crime.
Unlikely, as in this case, at the time of boarding, the head was still attached to Mr McLean.
Eight years at a mental hospital for murdering and cannibalizing a sleeping man, seems fair.
I wish I had not opened that link and read it.
In general we tend to over-pack and over-engineer a lot of our shipping and handling processes. Turns out many things just aren't that big of a deal (like shipping bees).
My friend was stationed in Hawaii. She mailed me a coconut. No box, just a stapled a first-class shipping label to it. Delivered without issue.
My friend was stationed in Hawaii. She mailed me a coconut. No box, just a stapled a first-class shipping label to it. Delivered without issue.
Wired magazine used to feature an odd mailed item each month, which included a coconut, among other things. Some of them were pretty cool and creative. Many would likely cause some kind of terror alert if attempted today:
https://www.wired.com/2008/12/st-15returntosender/
https://www.wired.com/2008/12/st-15returntosender/
Reminds me of a story I can’t find online at the moment: apparently when Games magazine still was published, people would address letters to them with the address encoded as a puzzle.
I guess the USPS finally just started sending them any mail with a sufficiently confusing destination address.
I guess the USPS finally just started sending them any mail with a sufficiently confusing destination address.
You are lucky -- not all fruit/seed can be mailed from Hawaii to lower 48. Coconuts & pineapple are among exceptions.
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/publications/plant_health/fs-ship...
Upper, Hawaii is quite far south of the other states. :)
The etch a sketch is hilarious. Every day of travel decreases the chances of it getting to it's destination.
I don't understand.. where did the context for an etch-a-sketch getting mailed come from? Why does every day of travel decrease the chances of it getting to its destination?
I have to know.. :)
*EDIT: ahhh, non-linear commenting! I went to the wired article from the other comment and found what you're referring to. I thought maybe they mailed it with a picture... they mailed it with an address?! that's one hell of a stress test.
I have to know.. :)
*EDIT: ahhh, non-linear commenting! I went to the wired article from the other comment and found what you're referring to. I thought maybe they mailed it with a picture... they mailed it with an address?! that's one hell of a stress test.
This is how I sometimes get my chicken, turkey, duck and geese chicks. The other is from local sources.
At one time you could send human children by US Mail as well.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/brief-history-chil...
When I had security clearances involving classified documents and dealt with radioactive materials, BOTH of those were shippable by US Mail also.
At one time you could send human children by US Mail as well.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/brief-history-chil...
When I had security clearances involving classified documents and dealt with radioactive materials, BOTH of those were shippable by US Mail also.
Unfortunately a lot of mailed chicks die along the way, ignoring other aspects of factory farming, it’s a pretty cruel way to transport animals.
Excellent. I was totally sure someone would post the Mail-a-Child™ glory days.
I worked in the campus post office while in college, and one of the most memorable days during my time there was when a box of live bees was delivered. It was about the size of a small loaf of bread, wooden on four sides and covered by screens on the other two.
We set them aside from the other boxes, near the counter where students would come to pick up their packages. It sat there buzzing quietly all day and generating a lot of surprised looks. Pretty neat.
We set them aside from the other boxes, near the counter where students would come to pick up their packages. It sat there buzzing quietly all day and generating a lot of surprised looks. Pretty neat.
Hence the term "creating the buzz".
would you say it "generated a lot of buzz" among the students?
When I worked in a USPS facility, it was always a mix of emotions when a box started chirping. On the one hand, cute baby birds! On the other hand, they’re going through an ordeal right now (they got special non-machine handling, but it still wasn’t pleasant for them to be packed into cartons) and their destination was most likely a factory farm.
In case it's helpful to know, it's highly likely that the baby birds that you helped shipped were destined for pretty nice places! Factory farms don't get their birds this way, but small farms do. Also of note, of the dozens times that we got baby birds shipped to our farm when I was a child, it was very very rare to find more than one or two that didn't survive the trip. And sometimes we'd get shipments without a single loss.
Newly hatched chickens can survive without food for more than 24 hours. They only want to sleep and can travel perfectly at this age, so is the usual way for amateurs to buy fancy chicken breeds or small chicken of known sex.
So, most probably those chicken would end having a happy life destroying carefully the backyard of somebody, one scratch at a time.
There is also a special kind of fishes that lay eggs that can travel perfectly without water in an envelope.
So, most probably those chicken would end having a happy life destroying carefully the backyard of somebody, one scratch at a time.
There is also a special kind of fishes that lay eggs that can travel perfectly without water in an envelope.
killifish are the fish you are talking about
They only want to sleep and can travel perfectly at this age...
I'm dubious. There is well-established research on the importance of imprinting for new-born chicks across a wide variety of bird species. Therefore, even if the chick spends most of its time asleep, I would want to see research saying that there is no problem due to intentionally depriving the chick of an appropriate target to imprint on.
I'm dubious. There is well-established research on the importance of imprinting for new-born chicks across a wide variety of bird species. Therefore, even if the chick spends most of its time asleep, I would want to see research saying that there is no problem due to intentionally depriving the chick of an appropriate target to imprint on.
I've never noticed anything different between chicks we raised and those that came in the mail. They all come running when when we walk into the back pasture.
I don't see how anyone could possibly know what the subjective experience of being a day-old chick stuffed in a box would be like. But I can imagine what it would be like to be a human stuffed in a box, and that doesn't seem very pleasant. I don't see how the idea that it might be better for birds (who are pretty clearly sentient creatures) could be based on anything other than rationalization and wishful thinking.
I think the assumption that the fresh chicks just hatched from an egg (or in the case of a human came out a womb) wouldn’t be too panicked about confined spaces.
I think a more apt comparison is to imagine a human being shipped in a padded shipping container with a dozen of her friends to keep her warm and help her feel safe.
I've had chicks shipped to me this way and it didn't appear to be traumatic at all for them. They grew into happy, healthy birds.
I've had chicks shipped to me this way and it didn't appear to be traumatic at all for them. They grew into happy, healthy birds.
> I don't see how anyone could possibly know what the subjective experience of being a day-old chick stuffed in a box would be like.
But then you go on to pretend to do exactly that.
You’re projecting a negative human experience onto birds.
But then you go on to pretend to do exactly that.
You’re projecting a negative human experience onto birds.
This is called "anthropomorphism" and is a form of fallacious reasoning.
Real life !== Disney films.
we've mail ordered chicks many times. Pretty normal for backyard chicken wranglers. Our dozen or so birds have two acres of fenced, lush, half tree-canopied land and a barn to sleep in.
Where my wife is from, it's very common for neighbors to mail one another chicks and ducklings as Easter presents.
Factory farms special order birds and receive them via freight, not USPS.
I'm awaiting a box of 6 chicks right now, probably coming tomorrow, and they're going to have long and happy lives (I hope). Egg layers.
I grew up rural and we fairly frequently ordered chicks by mail. I told the story in college of one time, a message left on our answering machine pleading "please, come get your chicks!" with incessant peeping in the background, as we must have not been at home during the mail delivery. For folks who grew up in the city, even the thought of the whole thing was a very powerful (and funny) story.
We've received day old chicks via USPS several times. The local post office had different procedures. Rather than trying to deliver, we were called as soon as they arrived requesting us to come and pick them up.
It's pretty neat and kind of surprising at first. Of the hundreds of birds we've received via USPS, none of them were DOA.
It's pretty neat and kind of surprising at first. Of the hundreds of birds we've received via USPS, none of them were DOA.
Do you have a farm or something?
My family and I lived on a farm for a number of years in the early 2000s. We raised chickens for eggs and meat.
[deleted]
There's a number of different "monthyl random box of stuff in some category" services these days. I had one for international snacks for a while. My wife did one for cat toys. I've seen one for fishing gear.
Clearly, what the world needs is one for animals. One month: adorable baby chicks. Peep peep. Next month: S C O R P I O N S.
Clearly, what the world needs is one for animals. One month: adorable baby chicks. Peep peep. Next month: S C O R P I O N S.
I understand that you are probably joking. For anyone less clear, please remember that animals have complex needs in terms of environment, food, and care to live healthy and pleasant lives. Adorable baby chicks are not a pet to be adopted lightly, without appropriate preparation. Chickens are in many ways much more demanding than a cat or dog.
As a chicken owner myself, I've heard far too many sad stories of people implulse-buying a chick at a hardware store or livestock show, only for it to perish soon after due to easily-avoided oversights or misunderstandings.
As a chicken owner myself, I've heard far too many sad stories of people implulse-buying a chick at a hardware store or livestock show, only for it to perish soon after due to easily-avoided oversights or misunderstandings.
Finally, something I can get my sister for Christmas!
My stepdad does maintenance for the Post Office. He has some stories.
Someone shipped a small alligator once. It peed in the cardboard box it was in and it got wet enough for it to escape inside a sorting machine. Imagine his surprise when he opened up the machine to see what was causing the errors.
Someone shipped a small alligator once. It peed in the cardboard box it was in and it got wet enough for it to escape inside a sorting machine. Imagine his surprise when he opened up the machine to see what was causing the errors.
Vaguely related and humourous:
> Uncle Milton Industries has been selling ant farms to children since 1956. Some years ago, I remember opening one up with a friend. There were no actual ants included in the box. Instead, there was a card that you filled in with your address, and the company would mail you some ants. My friend expressed surprise that you could get ants sent to you in the mail.
> I replied: “What’s really interesting is that these people will send a tube of live ants to anyone you tell them to.”
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/03/the_security_...
> Uncle Milton Industries has been selling ant farms to children since 1956. Some years ago, I remember opening one up with a friend. There were no actual ants included in the box. Instead, there was a card that you filled in with your address, and the company would mail you some ants. My friend expressed surprise that you could get ants sent to you in the mail.
> I replied: “What’s really interesting is that these people will send a tube of live ants to anyone you tell them to.”
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/03/the_security_...
The specific types of day-old poultry named in 526.31 are mailable subject to the following requirements:
Poultry that is not more than 24 hours old and is presented for mailing in the original, unopened hatchery box from the hatchery of origin. The date and hour of hatching is noted on the box by a representative of the hatchery who has personal knowledge thereof. (For Collect on Delivery (COD) shipments made by a hatchery for the account of others, the name or initials and address of the hatchery or the Post Office box number and address of the hatchery must be prominently shown for this standard.) Box is properly ventilated, of proper construction and strength to bear safe transport in the mail, and is not stacked more than 10 units high. Day–old poultry is mailed early enough in the week to avoid receipt at the office of address (in case of missed connections) on a Sunday, a national holiday, or the afternoon before a Sunday or national holiday. Day–old poultry can be delivered to the addressee within 72 hours of the time of hatching. Day-old poultry sent via surface transportation, must include special handling service fees, in addition to regular postage. Day-old poultry sent via air transportation must meet all provisions of the airlines. Delivery of the mailpiece is dependent on the availability of air carriers having available equipment to safely deliver the day–old poultry within the specified time limit. Day–old poultry that is first shipped via a commercial air express or air cargo service and then presented for mailing to a final destination must be in good condition and properly packaged as specified in 526.32a-e. Boxes of day–old poultry of about identical size, securely fastened together to prevent separation in transit, may be accepted for mailing as a single parcel, provided the total length and girth combined does not exceed Postal Service limits.
Poultry that is not more than 24 hours old and is presented for mailing in the original, unopened hatchery box from the hatchery of origin. The date and hour of hatching is noted on the box by a representative of the hatchery who has personal knowledge thereof. (For Collect on Delivery (COD) shipments made by a hatchery for the account of others, the name or initials and address of the hatchery or the Post Office box number and address of the hatchery must be prominently shown for this standard.) Box is properly ventilated, of proper construction and strength to bear safe transport in the mail, and is not stacked more than 10 units high. Day–old poultry is mailed early enough in the week to avoid receipt at the office of address (in case of missed connections) on a Sunday, a national holiday, or the afternoon before a Sunday or national holiday. Day–old poultry can be delivered to the addressee within 72 hours of the time of hatching. Day-old poultry sent via surface transportation, must include special handling service fees, in addition to regular postage. Day-old poultry sent via air transportation must meet all provisions of the airlines. Delivery of the mailpiece is dependent on the availability of air carriers having available equipment to safely deliver the day–old poultry within the specified time limit. Day–old poultry that is first shipped via a commercial air express or air cargo service and then presented for mailing to a final destination must be in good condition and properly packaged as specified in 526.32a-e. Boxes of day–old poultry of about identical size, securely fastened together to prevent separation in transit, may be accepted for mailing as a single parcel, provided the total length and girth combined does not exceed Postal Service limits.
You can't send children anymore:
https://www.history.com/news/mailing-children-post-office
https://www.history.com/news/mailing-children-post-office
Which seems like a missed opportunity for a service all its own: a babysitter who babysits while bringing the child somewhere, rather than in a static location. Which could mean "Uber where every driver has a babysitting certificate and the car has a bassinet and a minifridge" or it could mean "someone who'll watch over your child on public transit." It's fundamentally about the babysitting, not really about providing the transportation.
As a non-immigrant, USPS is probably the #3 most impressive thing to me about the US after the interstate highways and national parks.
522.3, Packaging and Markings:
"A mailpiece marked “If Undeliverable, Abandon” may not be accepted for mailing."
In other terms, you cannot put a dead animal in a box, then give it to the UPS for them to dispose of. I wonder how many people abused this particular "loophole" before they closed it.
"A mailpiece marked “If Undeliverable, Abandon” may not be accepted for mailing."
In other terms, you cannot put a dead animal in a box, then give it to the UPS for them to dispose of. I wonder how many people abused this particular "loophole" before they closed it.
Surely it's cheaper to dispose of it with your other garbage, or take it to a local dump, than paying postage to "mail" it?
Our dump charges $125 per carcass, regardless of size.
But yeah, when they introduced that fee, my wife's family just started burying newborn lambs that didn't survive, rather than, y'know, fedexing them to people.
But yeah, when they introduced that fee, my wife's family just started burying newborn lambs that didn't survive, rather than, y'know, fedexing them to people.
I once had to go to a mail processing facility in SF to retrieve a package which had had an exception in the delivery process. That was it's own nightmare, but I digress...
The postal worker I eventually talked to had a desk in a little office where she seemed to be sorting out issues for people like me. I think my case was a pretty mild one, but she kept getting calls from people about some live chicks which were somehow stuck there. It did not seem like fun.
The post office is amazing. They are true unsung heroes.
The postal worker I eventually talked to had a desk in a little office where she seemed to be sorting out issues for people like me. I think my case was a pretty mild one, but she kept getting calls from people about some live chicks which were somehow stuck there. It did not seem like fun.
The post office is amazing. They are true unsung heroes.
Luckily for you, USPS can’t go on strike. There’s usually quite a few (non-human) deaths when Canada’s postal workers go on strike.
I do not believe they would be mailed _to_ factory farms. My daughter raised ducks for 4H. We ordered them _from_ a factory farm and they arrived in 2 days (3 days from hatching). They had a stable high-water-content gel in the box for hydration, but it must have been an ordeal.
I keep insects as pets, and this seems to be a common way to get live insects from point A to point B. I felt a little bad about having them go through the surely-unpleasant process of being in the mail for a couple days, but they came out on the other side healthy enough that I didn't lose any.
Makes the idea of keeping pet insects that no store or breeder sells near you a lot more affordable, which is nice, since a lot of insects make such easy and practical pets.
Makes the idea of keeping pet insects that no store or breeder sells near you a lot more affordable, which is nice, since a lot of insects make such easy and practical pets.
If you expand your definition of "mailing" things, all sorts of creatures can be sent.
I once mailed a cat via Delta Airlines. Brought the kitty in a carrier to a special desk at the airport with the forms and certificates and a fist full of cash and a few hours later, he was in New York.
I know that sharks and elephants and such can be shipped via FedEx, but I don't consider that "mailing" because the handlers stay with those high-value critters.
I once mailed a cat via Delta Airlines. Brought the kitty in a carrier to a special desk at the airport with the forms and certificates and a fist full of cash and a few hours later, he was in New York.
I know that sharks and elephants and such can be shipped via FedEx, but I don't consider that "mailing" because the handlers stay with those high-value critters.
There's an interesting British tv show "animal airport" that covers the 24/7 operation at Heathrow airport that deals with the animals coming through.
Lots of paperwork issues, but occasionally random zoo animals turn up on planes due to misdirected air cargo/shenanigans. As well as the scheduled exotics and tons of domestic animals to be quarantined.
Far less handlers than you'd expect for the exotics. Mostly just really sturdy crates.
Used to be available streaming.
Lots of paperwork issues, but occasionally random zoo animals turn up on planes due to misdirected air cargo/shenanigans. As well as the scheduled exotics and tons of domestic animals to be quarantined.
Far less handlers than you'd expect for the exotics. Mostly just really sturdy crates.
Used to be available streaming.
One of my favorite YouTube niches is turtle unboxing videos.
We've gotten chicks, salt water fish, coral, ladybugs, and live fish food all through the mail. But apparently we can't mail my buddy in a different state some local beer. Oh well, I love my fresh eggs and colorful reef tank :)
I totally misread the title as Malleable Live Animals
Heh. Like the old Bonsai Kitten hoax website.
Thats why i clicked lol
There is a very classic webpage related to this list of rules:
https://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume6/v6i4/T...
https://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume6/v6i4/T...
Interesting that they have a specific carve-out for scorpions. It appears there is a good reason (making "antivenin"), but why only scorpions?
> Each queen honeybee may be accompanied by up to eight attendant honeybees.
I wonder what happens if you sneak a few more non-queen honeybees?
I wonder what happens if you sneak a few more non-queen honeybees?
Does anyone know why you cannot ship a pheasant in december ?
Is too cold to survive
No one has mentioned butterflies yet. Not an advertisement: we ordered butterfly caterpillars from insectlore.com and it was pretty awesome to watch them go through their life cycle. Our kids were squealing with wonder when the butterflies finally broke out of their chrysalises. Then after a day or two, we took them to a nice wooded area and released them.
"Let me pop a quick 'H' on this box, this way we all know that it's filled with hornets."
This reminds me of the horror pygmy marmosets or "Thumb Monkeys" endure.
There's a very high mortality rate as they're poached and shipped to people who have no idea how to care for one.
https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/no-pygmy-marmo...
There's a very high mortality rate as they're poached and shipped to people who have no idea how to care for one.
https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/no-pygmy-marmo...
In the past, USPS used to mail humans, specifically children.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/maili...
This was because there were not clear guidelines regarding what you could mail.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/maili...
This was because there were not clear guidelines regarding what you could mail.
Here's a human that mailed himself: https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/welshman-who-mailed-h...
picking up packages of bees at the post office is hilarious (they won’t deliver it all the way to your house)
i love doing the ‘ol “oops i’m gonna drop it” routine as i walk out the door past the horrified people standing in line to buy stamps
i love doing the ‘ol “oops i’m gonna drop it” routine as i walk out the door past the horrified people standing in line to buy stamps
You can also write an address on a fresh coconut, add postage, and mail it, at least from some locations (pretty sure this doesn't work from Floida to California).
I have a memory of posting a slice of bread to someone and by coincidence being at his house when it arrived.
It seems so improbable in retrospect thay I wonder how much I confabulated.
It seems so improbable in retrospect thay I wonder how much I confabulated.
What happens when a package gets lost that contains an animal?
So I actually used to work at the Post Office (when I was in my early 20s) and I was an express mail case worker. Essentially what that means is that whenever people had a problem with express mail (overnight and 2nd day mail, depending on origin/destination), someone would file a case and it was my problem to research it, solve it, or to conclude it lost, etc.
Anyway, virtually all animal shipping happens via Express Mail. So it became my problem to handle most cases involving animal shipping. I worked this job for about 2 years. I will tell you that every day animals die within the USPS. The vast majority die not because of the actual USPS, but because the people shipping the animals did it improperly.
Here's a short list of specific cases I remember:
- Someone shipped a baby alligator. They didn't mark it as live animal (because they thought it wasn't allowed) or ship it appropriately. The alligator chewed through a portion of the box by the time it arrived at the destination post office. A worker looked through the hole and discovered what they thought was a puppy, so they opened the box to save it and saw it was an exhausted alligator. Local animal control was called and the alligator wasn't able to be saved. Animal control disposed of the body. Alligators are actually very commonly shipped and are legal to ship, so if this person had done it correctly the animal would probably have survived.
- Rare butterflies were sent from Vietnam via international first class mail, when the box arrived it was flat and all the butterflies were dead. It got escalated to me because no one in first class mail knew how to handle animal cases. I remember this case in excruciating detail because the recipient continued to call and harass me for 3-4 months after this happened. This was a weird borderline case because it was international mail where the sending PO (in Vietnam) allows sending of these animals but local PO (in USA) didn't allow receiving of these animals. The guy was hellbent on getting reimbursed for non-insured first class mail. He claims he spent $10,000 on the butterflies. Since it wasn't insured we never researched the legitimacy of this amount, nor did he receive any compensation. Eventually Postal Inspectors were called just because of his continued harassment.
- Baby Chickens are commonly shipped. I don't remember any specific cases because in spring time I was handling 5-10 of these cases EVERY DAY. They also commonly do not survive, even when properly handled and shipped. So get your insurance if you order baby chicks. These are some of the easiest insurance reimbursements I have seen, they get approved faster than almost anything else in the USPS. It's insanely common.
- Someone shipped a salt water fish of some kind. The fish survived the transport but the recipient said the fish refused to eat because it was so traumatized from our shipping methods. So the fish went on a hunger strike and died a week or so later. They had spent $1,500 on the fish and wanted reimbursement. His reimbursement was denied.
- Someone shipped a fertilized Ostrich Egg. They packed it in bubble wrap and had some of those hand warmers inside that you use when skiing. When it was accepted by the recipient, they opened it and discovered the egg had cracked during shipment. Pretty standard boring case at first glance. But the reason I remember it is because the insurance claim was originally rejected because Ostrich was a non-indigenous fowl. Then the recipient sent back a 20 slide powerpoint to me that they created which proved that Ostriches are actually considered farmed-poultry (who knew?). So then I passed it through as approved but it was denied again because of improper packaging. Eggs have to be sent in "hatchery" packaging. I don't think that person ever got their insurance claim.
- Puppies. People actually try to ship puppies via USPS. Please do not do this ever. You will have Postal Inspectors called and they will fine you and charge you with a felony & animal abuse. Same goes for kittens, although for some reason puppies were more common than kittens. Both are big no-nos. Luckily these usually get caught early on at the origin post office or at the initial sorting facility, so many have been "saved" before they passed away. Animal Control retrieves the animals and they go to the pound/shelter. Either way Postal Inspectors get involved 100% of the time in these cases. So its a sure-fire way to get charged with a felony. I remember 2 cases where I was actually able to find lost puppies and save them. One time I spent close to 8 full hours tracking them down. They still go to animal control when they are found, they do not continue onto the recipient. The second time we found the lost puppies it was because the destination PO discovered them and called the police and the Postal Inspectors directly, but never updated the tracking. So the puppies were safe (I think one died in that case).
- Bees are very commonly shipped and they make it safely through the mail system 99% of the time. They actually pack them up and store them very well.
So what happens when a package gets lost? Well live-animals have the highest priority in the USPS' case management system. So even if I was behind on cases and working on cases that were submitted days ago, as soon as an live animal case comes in, it immediately moves to the next case above everything else. So they are handled promptly. As a case worker we usually actually picked up the phone to call sorting facilities when we were dealing with a lost animal as opposed to sending emails like usual for information. I'd say we tracked down around half of all lost animal claims. Some would get discovered "too late", and many would just get lost for good.
What happens when a deceased animal is discovered? If it was an approved animal then it would go to the recipient as usual, sometimes with a note. If the animal was unapproved (like a snake or turtle for example) then Postal Inspectors are called. If it was a larger animal or a mammal like a puppy or kitten, then animal control is usually called to handle the body.
Lastly, Ill mention insurance. The way USPS does insurance claims is a headache for everyone. We had a joke when I worked there that the goal was for people to give up on fighting for their insurance claim. Because that is what usually happened. Payouts take 6 months or so on average. There is a lot of back and forth and records need to be immaculate. Most people don't have any proof of what they shipped or the value of what they shipped. So claims were rarely approved.
Last I mentioned "Postal Inspectors". These are actual federal agents that oversee USPS claims. They are essentially federal police officers and they can arrest and charge you with felonies. They investigate all sorts of stuff, like mailing drugs, elaborate mail tampering schemes, and so forth. They also handled cases where extreme animal neglect occurs while shipping live animals. So keep that in mind when you ship a live animal against the rules posted on that site, because you can actually get a felony for it (like shipping dogs and stuff).
Edit: This was nearly 15 years ago, so some practices and rules might have changed since then.
Anyway, virtually all animal shipping happens via Express Mail. So it became my problem to handle most cases involving animal shipping. I worked this job for about 2 years. I will tell you that every day animals die within the USPS. The vast majority die not because of the actual USPS, but because the people shipping the animals did it improperly.
Here's a short list of specific cases I remember:
- Someone shipped a baby alligator. They didn't mark it as live animal (because they thought it wasn't allowed) or ship it appropriately. The alligator chewed through a portion of the box by the time it arrived at the destination post office. A worker looked through the hole and discovered what they thought was a puppy, so they opened the box to save it and saw it was an exhausted alligator. Local animal control was called and the alligator wasn't able to be saved. Animal control disposed of the body. Alligators are actually very commonly shipped and are legal to ship, so if this person had done it correctly the animal would probably have survived.
- Rare butterflies were sent from Vietnam via international first class mail, when the box arrived it was flat and all the butterflies were dead. It got escalated to me because no one in first class mail knew how to handle animal cases. I remember this case in excruciating detail because the recipient continued to call and harass me for 3-4 months after this happened. This was a weird borderline case because it was international mail where the sending PO (in Vietnam) allows sending of these animals but local PO (in USA) didn't allow receiving of these animals. The guy was hellbent on getting reimbursed for non-insured first class mail. He claims he spent $10,000 on the butterflies. Since it wasn't insured we never researched the legitimacy of this amount, nor did he receive any compensation. Eventually Postal Inspectors were called just because of his continued harassment.
- Baby Chickens are commonly shipped. I don't remember any specific cases because in spring time I was handling 5-10 of these cases EVERY DAY. They also commonly do not survive, even when properly handled and shipped. So get your insurance if you order baby chicks. These are some of the easiest insurance reimbursements I have seen, they get approved faster than almost anything else in the USPS. It's insanely common.
- Someone shipped a salt water fish of some kind. The fish survived the transport but the recipient said the fish refused to eat because it was so traumatized from our shipping methods. So the fish went on a hunger strike and died a week or so later. They had spent $1,500 on the fish and wanted reimbursement. His reimbursement was denied.
- Someone shipped a fertilized Ostrich Egg. They packed it in bubble wrap and had some of those hand warmers inside that you use when skiing. When it was accepted by the recipient, they opened it and discovered the egg had cracked during shipment. Pretty standard boring case at first glance. But the reason I remember it is because the insurance claim was originally rejected because Ostrich was a non-indigenous fowl. Then the recipient sent back a 20 slide powerpoint to me that they created which proved that Ostriches are actually considered farmed-poultry (who knew?). So then I passed it through as approved but it was denied again because of improper packaging. Eggs have to be sent in "hatchery" packaging. I don't think that person ever got their insurance claim.
- Puppies. People actually try to ship puppies via USPS. Please do not do this ever. You will have Postal Inspectors called and they will fine you and charge you with a felony & animal abuse. Same goes for kittens, although for some reason puppies were more common than kittens. Both are big no-nos. Luckily these usually get caught early on at the origin post office or at the initial sorting facility, so many have been "saved" before they passed away. Animal Control retrieves the animals and they go to the pound/shelter. Either way Postal Inspectors get involved 100% of the time in these cases. So its a sure-fire way to get charged with a felony. I remember 2 cases where I was actually able to find lost puppies and save them. One time I spent close to 8 full hours tracking them down. They still go to animal control when they are found, they do not continue onto the recipient. The second time we found the lost puppies it was because the destination PO discovered them and called the police and the Postal Inspectors directly, but never updated the tracking. So the puppies were safe (I think one died in that case).
- Bees are very commonly shipped and they make it safely through the mail system 99% of the time. They actually pack them up and store them very well.
So what happens when a package gets lost? Well live-animals have the highest priority in the USPS' case management system. So even if I was behind on cases and working on cases that were submitted days ago, as soon as an live animal case comes in, it immediately moves to the next case above everything else. So they are handled promptly. As a case worker we usually actually picked up the phone to call sorting facilities when we were dealing with a lost animal as opposed to sending emails like usual for information. I'd say we tracked down around half of all lost animal claims. Some would get discovered "too late", and many would just get lost for good.
What happens when a deceased animal is discovered? If it was an approved animal then it would go to the recipient as usual, sometimes with a note. If the animal was unapproved (like a snake or turtle for example) then Postal Inspectors are called. If it was a larger animal or a mammal like a puppy or kitten, then animal control is usually called to handle the body.
Lastly, Ill mention insurance. The way USPS does insurance claims is a headache for everyone. We had a joke when I worked there that the goal was for people to give up on fighting for their insurance claim. Because that is what usually happened. Payouts take 6 months or so on average. There is a lot of back and forth and records need to be immaculate. Most people don't have any proof of what they shipped or the value of what they shipped. So claims were rarely approved.
Last I mentioned "Postal Inspectors". These are actual federal agents that oversee USPS claims. They are essentially federal police officers and they can arrest and charge you with felonies. They investigate all sorts of stuff, like mailing drugs, elaborate mail tampering schemes, and so forth. They also handled cases where extreme animal neglect occurs while shipping live animals. So keep that in mind when you ship a live animal against the rules posted on that site, because you can actually get a felony for it (like shipping dogs and stuff).
Edit: This was nearly 15 years ago, so some practices and rules might have changed since then.
Fascinating! Thank you for sharing your experiences. This is exactly what keeps me reading HN.
typically, the animal dies. We've had live fish not make it in time to our door. Not as bad as this: https://www.thedodo.com/live-animal-keychains-china-12256846...
I remember going in late to work, in order to receive my daughter's lizard via delivery. I was very concerned, but several years later he's doing just fine.
My neighbor gets regular deliveries of live roaches, which he feeds to pet lizards. They come by US mail from a roach farm in Arkansas. Some farmer must be laughing his way to the bank every time he ships roaches to Los Angeles.
I have had koi delivered via UPS. But that's probably normal to most people right?
I’ve heard you can also mail a potato if you slap the right amount of stamps on it
Can confirm. Lived on farm. Used to get bees in the mail.
> Nonpoisonous Insects
So it's legal to just, say, mail a bunch of stink bugs and roaches and fruitflies to businesses that send you junk mail or <insert business you hate>?
So it's legal to just, say, mail a bunch of stink bugs and roaches and fruitflies to businesses that send you junk mail or <insert business you hate>?
My parents would mail order bricks of sleeping ladybugs. Put one in the garden and when they thaw out, they eat all the bad insects.
I always thought about putting one in someone's locker in high school, but never did it.
I always thought about putting one in someone's locker in high school, but never did it.
You can also do this with praying mantises, but they come as an egg nest. Put them under some leaves and a week or two later baby mantises everywhere eating all the bad things. After a couple months there's always a few big ones that stick around. Surprisingly intelligent and curious little things.
> fruitflies
careful with that one - there are interstate restrictions on transporting insects that are unrelated to the USPS.
careful with that one - there are interstate restrictions on transporting insects that are unrelated to the USPS.
There's no pre-existing market for "a bunch of stink bugs", however ladybugs are useful for non-toxic pest control (they'll eat aphids), so they can be ordered via mail.
Just because postal regulations permit them to be mailed does not preclude other reasons why that action might be illegal or expose you to legal liability.
There are lots of actions that are legal in isolation that become illegal when you do them to other people, particularly when done with malice.
There are lots of actions that are legal in isolation that become illegal when you do them to other people, particularly when done with malice.
Their spam mail and abuse of customers is malice.
Who is they?
... abuse of customers?
... abuse of customers?
Digging up my residential address or sharing it with other businesses for any purpose other than to render services (e.g. to send a package that I ordered, you might need to share it with FedEx) is harrassment IMO.
Brb, getting started on PetsOvernight.com!
Not a bad business to get into. Facebook marketplace doesn’t allow live animals and that’s the bigger classified site usually, leaving a vacuum for everything else.
I love Easter eggs!
petsovernight.com
shapefrog(1)
I’ve been aware of this. It’s really fucked up if you’d so me.
I’m surprised to not see fish listed. When I was a kid my dad would receive live fish from saltwaterfish.com. They would show up in insulated containers, alive, if a bit stressed. I guess they must’ve come via one of the private mail carriers.
Edit: Whoops, I can’t read!
Edit: Whoops, I can’t read!
They are listed, under “526.6 Small, Harmless, Cold–Blooded Animals”
Goldfish
Tropical Fish
- Fish must be held in a securely sealed primary receptacle.
- Fish must be held in a securely sealed primary receptacle.
- Primary receptacle must be cushioned with sufficient absorbent material to take up all liquid in case of leakage.
- Primary receptacle and absorbent cushioning material must be sealed within waterproof outer (shipping) packaging.
Goldfish
Tropical Fish
- Fish must be held in a securely sealed primary receptacle.
- Fish must be held in a securely sealed primary receptacle.
- Primary receptacle must be cushioned with sufficient absorbent material to take up all liquid in case of leakage.
- Primary receptacle and absorbent cushioning material must be sealed within waterproof outer (shipping) packaging.
Requirements for "Goldfish" and "Tropical Fish" are listed under the "Small, Harmless, Cold–Blooded Animals" section
If you want a real ant farm, you need to either collect ants locally, or buy ants in person from someone who did themselves. And you'd better known the rules if you want to cross state lines with your ants.
(Source, I have a teenager who loooves ants and knows everything about them. He now has multiple species of ants that he keeps.)