Tell HN: A $40B company killed my 2yo son. Now they force me to keep silent
133 comments
I'm very sorry to hear that.
You need to consult with a lawyer to decide the way to go from here. He/she can tell you what your odds of winning are, and what the best strategy is. As someone not emotionally involved with the case, and having access to all the details, an impartial person is the best one to trust. I don't think you should see this case as revenge or closure for the death of your son, because you will be disappointed one way or another. You also don't have the personal responsibility to fix the failings of such a huge company.
Personally, the only advice I can give you is that the way you are living is unhealthy. It is an unimaginable tragedy what happened to you, but you have to somehow gather the strength to rebuild your life again. Your reaction is understandable. However, try to think of the way forward as much as possible. You are likely relatively young, and you have the possibility to start over. There is no way to change the past, only the future.
You need to consult with a lawyer to decide the way to go from here. He/she can tell you what your odds of winning are, and what the best strategy is. As someone not emotionally involved with the case, and having access to all the details, an impartial person is the best one to trust. I don't think you should see this case as revenge or closure for the death of your son, because you will be disappointed one way or another. You also don't have the personal responsibility to fix the failings of such a huge company.
Personally, the only advice I can give you is that the way you are living is unhealthy. It is an unimaginable tragedy what happened to you, but you have to somehow gather the strength to rebuild your life again. Your reaction is understandable. However, try to think of the way forward as much as possible. You are likely relatively young, and you have the possibility to start over. There is no way to change the past, only the future.
I don't have anything to add other than I just recently watched nine perfect strangers and it goes into detail how terrible it is to lose a child and the lengths people will go to maintain some sanity.
They offered to settle because they've been forced to pay out for similar cases before. Just last year, Republic Services (who is almost certainly who you're referring to, if not WM, but RSC is closer to $40B) was found responsible in a similar case in Nevada and the mother was awarded $38 million by the jury: https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/jury-awa...
It doesn't bring your child back, but working with an accident attorney who is compassionate and may be able to wage the battle without too much direct involvement from you may get you more of what you feel is justice in this case.
I'm so deeply sorry for your loss, by the way.
It doesn't bring your child back, but working with an accident attorney who is compassionate and may be able to wage the battle without too much direct involvement from you may get you more of what you feel is justice in this case.
I'm so deeply sorry for your loss, by the way.
Agreed. Talking to a few lawyers until you find a compassionate one is not a commitment. You can hear what he or she has to say then decide after you have more information.
> Talking to a few lawyers until you find...
I have no advice on how to find a good, suitable lawyer. It's as hard or harder as any other domain (health, construction, accounting, etc). Like everyone else, I've had suboptimal experiences.
I can, however, relate my most recent experience, which was very positive.
I compiled a list of prospects. Mostly thru foraging. Also from recommendations.
I then called every single one of them. Over time I learned some useful questions to ask.
It eventually became completely obvious which lawyers knew what they were talking about, had direct experience with cases like mine, and weren't just hustling to get more work. Especially which lawyers were easy to talk with, who returned calls & followed up, and did what they said they'd do.
I narrowed the list down to two.
Then I chose the less optimistic one. I felt the person who had fought more battles, had a lower estimate for success, would understand the work involved, had already seen all the traps and pitfalls, and would therefore work smarter.
--
All that said...
I don't think you (u/bereavedparent) are in any position to pick a lawyer by yourself. I certainly wasn't. You need help.
I recruited a friend to help me. Just like having a patient advocate. To help me plan, strategize, maintain the calendar, keep notes, and elevate my mood.
I have no advice on how to find a good, suitable lawyer. It's as hard or harder as any other domain (health, construction, accounting, etc). Like everyone else, I've had suboptimal experiences.
I can, however, relate my most recent experience, which was very positive.
I compiled a list of prospects. Mostly thru foraging. Also from recommendations.
I then called every single one of them. Over time I learned some useful questions to ask.
It eventually became completely obvious which lawyers knew what they were talking about, had direct experience with cases like mine, and weren't just hustling to get more work. Especially which lawyers were easy to talk with, who returned calls & followed up, and did what they said they'd do.
I narrowed the list down to two.
Then I chose the less optimistic one. I felt the person who had fought more battles, had a lower estimate for success, would understand the work involved, had already seen all the traps and pitfalls, and would therefore work smarter.
--
All that said...
I don't think you (u/bereavedparent) are in any position to pick a lawyer by yourself. I certainly wasn't. You need help.
I recruited a friend to help me. Just like having a patient advocate. To help me plan, strategize, maintain the calendar, keep notes, and elevate my mood.
There is surely a good caring lawyer out there somewhere who can help lift some of the burden the OP is under. What's the easiest way to find that lawyer?
Perhaps the OP can contact the family or lawyers involved in the previous litigation you mentioned?
Perhaps the OP can contact the family or lawyers involved in the previous litigation you mentioned?
It's complicated. Very often the jury awards are subsequently slashed by appeals courts, so it's highly unlikely that the mother in the case you mentioned ever received $38MM.
It's also important to note, for OP, that non-disclosure agreements are standard in such cases. It should not be construed as an attempt for the company to cover up its actions and "continue killing children".
If I were OP, I would consult my lawyer about what specifically can and cannot be discussed. It might be that they simply don't want the father to talk about the settlement amount and the company's misconduct. That might still enable him to discuss/advocate in public more general safety practices for children and sanitation work with the city - while not being in violation of the agreement.
At the end of the day - the company isn't "forcing" him to sign the agreement. It's his choice. His family wants him to settle, as probably does his lawyer - because it's probably not worth the extra litigation.
It's also important to note, for OP, that non-disclosure agreements are standard in such cases. It should not be construed as an attempt for the company to cover up its actions and "continue killing children".
If I were OP, I would consult my lawyer about what specifically can and cannot be discussed. It might be that they simply don't want the father to talk about the settlement amount and the company's misconduct. That might still enable him to discuss/advocate in public more general safety practices for children and sanitation work with the city - while not being in violation of the agreement.
At the end of the day - the company isn't "forcing" him to sign the agreement. It's his choice. His family wants him to settle, as probably does his lawyer - because it's probably not worth the extra litigation.
> It's also important to note, for OP, that non-disclosure agreements are standard in such cases. It should not be construed as an attempt for the company to cover up its actions and "continue killing children".
Or, it should be construed that attempts to cover up actions are standard in such cases. Behavior does not become void of motive just because it is "standard":
> Trying to hide the body is standard in murder cases. It should not be construed as an attempt of the killer to cover up their guilt.
Or, it should be construed that attempts to cover up actions are standard in such cases. Behavior does not become void of motive just because it is "standard":
> Trying to hide the body is standard in murder cases. It should not be construed as an attempt of the killer to cover up their guilt.
This is an overly-cynical take. As any lawyer can confirm, settlements almost ALWAYS contain non-disclosure clauses. The reason is that they cost the plaintiff nothing to sign, and provide the defendant with a limitation of any knock-on liability.
It's just totally standard. You can think of it many ways. A settlement can be published in the newspaper causing bad PR for the company, even if they've fixed the issue. It can motivate copy-cat plaintiffs to stage fake "incidents" to try to extort money from the company. It can also cause regulatory inquiries and/or investigations. It can cause other companies to make legal claims on tangentially related issues they might have with the defendant.
You'd be amazed what paper thin lawsuits are filed sometimes. Keeping settlements private is just absolutely normal to keep the vultures away.
It's just totally standard. You can think of it many ways. A settlement can be published in the newspaper causing bad PR for the company, even if they've fixed the issue. It can motivate copy-cat plaintiffs to stage fake "incidents" to try to extort money from the company. It can also cause regulatory inquiries and/or investigations. It can cause other companies to make legal claims on tangentially related issues they might have with the defendant.
You'd be amazed what paper thin lawsuits are filed sometimes. Keeping settlements private is just absolutely normal to keep the vultures away.
Half the consequences that you cite in defense of non-disclosures, are perfectly legitimate issues for the company to have to deal with. Why should they be spared bad PR or regulatory inquiries, if they're based on true claims?
It still looks like cover-up to me, no matter how standard.
Something is not clear to me, however: Are you implying a non-disclosure agreement could forbid contacting the relevant regulatory authority? Or merely that the media publicity could spur an investigation, where an individual informant would be ignored?
It still looks like cover-up to me, no matter how standard.
Something is not clear to me, however: Are you implying a non-disclosure agreement could forbid contacting the relevant regulatory authority? Or merely that the media publicity could spur an investigation, where an individual informant would be ignored?
You're missing the point. There are a myriad of reasons for the non-disclosure - some you agree with and some you don't. The point is that lawyers include it as a standard in nearly all kinds of agreements. ...it's not even limited to settlements. Regular contracts often have them. It's just normal business practice. It's done because, as you know, anything you say, no matter how innocent, can be used against you in a court of law - whether misconstrued or not.
Thus lawyers almost always include a non-disclosure clause. This, on its own, should not lead you to believe the company is covering anything up.
...and to answer your last question, no, non-disclosure agreements do not prevent you from speaking to regulatory authorities.
Thus lawyers almost always include a non-disclosure clause. This, on its own, should not lead you to believe the company is covering anything up.
...and to answer your last question, no, non-disclosure agreements do not prevent you from speaking to regulatory authorities.
Unrelated (and apologies for stepping out of the post' subject), but I lived in multiple countries and then in states within USA.
In Vegas now and Republic Services' drivers in Las Vegas are the most considerate, accomodating and friendly people.
Granted I live in more friendly Vegas neighborhood but compare to CA and other places i lived in - here it's such a positive surprise.
In Vegas now and Republic Services' drivers in Las Vegas are the most considerate, accomodating and friendly people.
Granted I live in more friendly Vegas neighborhood but compare to CA and other places i lived in - here it's such a positive surprise.
I stopped working so that I can go to the cemetery to stay with my son everyday. It's been almost two years.
Hey, this is quite concerning. The pain must be unimaginable. And the atmosphere around you (understandably) is also not in a position to help themselves, let alone help others. But, if you do read this, please, get help. Somehow, someway. There is always a solution.
This is a good first step. Seek for help like you sought help here, friend. Best of luck.
Hey, this is quite concerning. The pain must be unimaginable. And the atmosphere around you (understandably) is also not in a position to help themselves, let alone help others. But, if you do read this, please, get help. Somehow, someway. There is always a solution.
This is a good first step. Seek for help like you sought help here, friend. Best of luck.
First, as other people are saying, you are in a bad place. Sitting in the cemetery every day is helping no-one, and it's not betraying your son to stop, although it might feel like it. Do you think he would want you to waste your life doing that? Get help. Also if you get a therapist and it doesn't help much, don't let the inertia of depression keep you with the first one. If you're not seeing some kind of change (not major changes, any change) within 4 months, find a different one.
Second, most replies assume you have 2 options:
accept the settlement and move on
Reject the settlement and sue
But if you don't have the money to sue, you still don't have to accept the settlement. Just don't sign. You can still make them lose in the court of public opinion. That is, apparently, what they are frightened of. You can make sure every parent at that playground, at the schools where they take their kids, knows how negligent they are. They could sue you for libel, but that would be bad publicity for them (suing a bereaved parent?).
As others have said, you need to make sure your family are okay. If your family want to settle, you do need to address that before deciding, and come to agreement with your family
The company have given you a Schelling point, but you don't need to accept their Schelling point, which is there to benefit them.
You may need to promise your family some other form of closure if you don't want to settle, Eg a time limit on how long you campaign for. It may be that you need a family therapist to help you have that conversation in a nondestructive way
Second, most replies assume you have 2 options:
accept the settlement and move on
Reject the settlement and sue
But if you don't have the money to sue, you still don't have to accept the settlement. Just don't sign. You can still make them lose in the court of public opinion. That is, apparently, what they are frightened of. You can make sure every parent at that playground, at the schools where they take their kids, knows how negligent they are. They could sue you for libel, but that would be bad publicity for them (suing a bereaved parent?).
As others have said, you need to make sure your family are okay. If your family want to settle, you do need to address that before deciding, and come to agreement with your family
The company have given you a Schelling point, but you don't need to accept their Schelling point, which is there to benefit them.
You may need to promise your family some other form of closure if you don't want to settle, Eg a time limit on how long you campaign for. It may be that you need a family therapist to help you have that conversation in a nondestructive way
[deleted]
I'm going to tell you some things you probably already know deep down.
* Your son wouldn't want you to spend your life in the cemetery. Think of your son when he was laughing or having fun. He'd want you to find a way to feel that way again.
* Even if you fight and win against the corporation, and win billions, this won't guarantee that this can never happen to another child again.
* It's not your sole responsibility to ensure this never happens to another child again. It is our shared responsibility as a community.
* Despite this being our shared responsibility, it will probably happen again somewhere, at some time in the future. Humans are not perfect, and we aren't omniscient.
* You will move on and you aren't betraying your son by being happy. You will eventually forget the exact sound of his voice, memories will fade and this is ok.
* You will never get over this loss, but you will find a way to be happy again.
I know it's possible because my grandmother lost a son in a very similar way.
My grandmother lost her eldest son when he was ten. He was also hit by a truck. Like you, she was in the cemetery for a year, kneeling in the snow, till the priest came out and told her that it was time to move on, which is what she did.
Unlike you, my grandmother who lived in a small rural village, wasn't offered a settlement, and didn't feel she had the option of consulting lawyers. In a way she had it easier because she had fewer choices.
I do know that my grandmother found her way to happiness again, even after later losing her husband to a grossly negligent medical error a few years later.
Again you have to implant this belief in yourself. You and your family can find your way back to happiness again. Even if it seems like a cruel joke, it isn't. It's true. And I know it's true because I know people who did it.
Now some actionable steps/ideas:
* Make a small space in your home as a shrine to your son. Stop going to the cemetery and spend time with him there instead. If he dwells anywhere it's in your own home, not in a cemetery.
* Find a job you can do from home. One you can do in your sleep. Even if it's just some remote work like two days a week.
* Your son wouldn't want you to spend your life in the cemetery. Think of your son when he was laughing or having fun. He'd want you to find a way to feel that way again.
* Even if you fight and win against the corporation, and win billions, this won't guarantee that this can never happen to another child again.
* It's not your sole responsibility to ensure this never happens to another child again. It is our shared responsibility as a community.
* Despite this being our shared responsibility, it will probably happen again somewhere, at some time in the future. Humans are not perfect, and we aren't omniscient.
* You will move on and you aren't betraying your son by being happy. You will eventually forget the exact sound of his voice, memories will fade and this is ok.
* You will never get over this loss, but you will find a way to be happy again.
I know it's possible because my grandmother lost a son in a very similar way.
My grandmother lost her eldest son when he was ten. He was also hit by a truck. Like you, she was in the cemetery for a year, kneeling in the snow, till the priest came out and told her that it was time to move on, which is what she did.
Unlike you, my grandmother who lived in a small rural village, wasn't offered a settlement, and didn't feel she had the option of consulting lawyers. In a way she had it easier because she had fewer choices.
I do know that my grandmother found her way to happiness again, even after later losing her husband to a grossly negligent medical error a few years later.
Again you have to implant this belief in yourself. You and your family can find your way back to happiness again. Even if it seems like a cruel joke, it isn't. It's true. And I know it's true because I know people who did it.
Now some actionable steps/ideas:
* Make a small space in your home as a shrine to your son. Stop going to the cemetery and spend time with him there instead. If he dwells anywhere it's in your own home, not in a cemetery.
* Find a job you can do from home. One you can do in your sleep. Even if it's just some remote work like two days a week.
This is so thoughtful and so kindly written. I appreciate you taking the time to write this out for OP. I hope your grandmother truly did continue to find joy later in life. If your kindness is any indication, the love in your family certainly did not die with your late uncle or grandfather.
> the love in your family certainly did not die with your late uncle or grandfather.
You are very kind. But we aren't special different kind of people.
I wouldn't want OP to think that. We are like everyone else, and have made our share of mistakes, and have endured periods of grief, depression, anxiety and all the rest of it.
Edited: Removed some stuff, because this is about OPs family, and shouldn't be about my family.
You are very kind. But we aren't special different kind of people.
I wouldn't want OP to think that. We are like everyone else, and have made our share of mistakes, and have endured periods of grief, depression, anxiety and all the rest of it.
Edited: Removed some stuff, because this is about OPs family, and shouldn't be about my family.
You can't get revenge on a company like that. It's an unthinking, unfeeling automaton of concrete and steel and paperwork. Unless there is a criminal case to be made against specific people, nobody will really care if they lose a civil case. You and your family will probably suffer more. Something to consider.
Also don't think of the money as the value of your son or the cost of your family suffering. Even if you got a billion dollars I think that thinking could still leave you feeling guilty for accepting it.
I'd consider taking a settlement and forgetting about that company as quickly as possible, and getting medical help for yourself and your wife to work on your mental injuries. See psychologists, grief counseling, find people or support groups who been through similar situations, etc. Your wife and family need you, and your son is going to be with you wherever you are so don't need to sit alone at the cemetery every day to be with him.
Also don't think of the money as the value of your son or the cost of your family suffering. Even if you got a billion dollars I think that thinking could still leave you feeling guilty for accepting it.
I'd consider taking a settlement and forgetting about that company as quickly as possible, and getting medical help for yourself and your wife to work on your mental injuries. See psychologists, grief counseling, find people or support groups who been through similar situations, etc. Your wife and family need you, and your son is going to be with you wherever you are so don't need to sit alone at the cemetery every day to be with him.
But you can try to prevent something similar from occuring. There's value in that.
As a lawyer, I’ve seen litigation I’ve filed result in behavior changes in even larger companies.
All that’s required for evil to flourish . . .
All that’s required for evil to flourish . . .
Well OP has done something already by starting the legal process, so that's already better than many when it comes to fighting evil. And I don't think he should need to feel he has any more duty than anyone else.
EDIT: My assumption is that they engaged a lawyer but if not that's obviously my advice #1.
EDIT: My assumption is that they engaged a lawyer but if not that's obviously my advice #1.
It's doubtful whether that is possible and the family seems (understandably) grief stricken by this. The child is not coming back. Its now the duty of the OP to take care of his partner with needed counselling, may be moving to another place etc. The pain won't go away regardless of the outcome of a lawsuit.
OP, I'm sorry for your loss. Things like this takes everything from us. The only thing we can do is move on and contemplate. In my personal belief, that it is only possible through spirituality. The grief is expected and completely normal. Its a result of your love for your son. The ache will be there throughout your life. I would suggest (if your finances allow), to use the settlement money to do something good for other children on an annual basis (however small it is).
OP, I'm sorry for your loss. Things like this takes everything from us. The only thing we can do is move on and contemplate. In my personal belief, that it is only possible through spirituality. The grief is expected and completely normal. Its a result of your love for your son. The ache will be there throughout your life. I would suggest (if your finances allow), to use the settlement money to do something good for other children on an annual basis (however small it is).
Very true. There's also a cost to it, and there is value in other things including OP's happiness. And he can help make the world a better place in many other ways if he feels compelled to do that.
>nobody will really care if they lose a civil case.
A civil case has nothing to do with his son. The purpose of the case would be to prevent OTHER children from dying.
A civil case has nothing to do with his son. The purpose of the case would be to prevent OTHER children from dying.
I would have fought, but I now know that it would it consume me, destroy my remaining family, and ruin my mental health. I fought because I’m emotional and needed to do what I felt was the "right" thing.
I have some experience with this sort of fight, against something much larger than yourself that is doing some sort of wrong. My situation is nowhere near as tragic and sad as yours, you have my condolences I couldn’t even imagine being in your position.
My own fight is a mere speck of dust vs your fight.
However what I have learnt is that I perhaps took the wrong path.
You could take the path of moving on. No more fight. Life is so short. These giant organisations can eat up years of your life in court.
This alternative path, move on, build your family anew. Take the settlement. No amount of money can give you your years back, or repair your mental health.
Like literally millions of dollars cannot fix your family that is breaking apart. Your mental health cannot be healed with any amount of money.
Look at what you have now. Who is your family. They are real, alive, they matter, move on, it is so hard. But you need to move on.
Don’t let the system steal your years in endless battles. The thing your fighting is an uncaring machine. And you are burning your years away whilst the machine is effectively immortal.
If I could do it all over again I would not fight.
You ask: What would you do if you were me?
Be selfish, take the settlement, focus on what you have that is alive - your current family. Regrow and move on as much as you can.
Put the past behind you.
I have some experience with this sort of fight, against something much larger than yourself that is doing some sort of wrong. My situation is nowhere near as tragic and sad as yours, you have my condolences I couldn’t even imagine being in your position.
My own fight is a mere speck of dust vs your fight.
However what I have learnt is that I perhaps took the wrong path.
You could take the path of moving on. No more fight. Life is so short. These giant organisations can eat up years of your life in court.
This alternative path, move on, build your family anew. Take the settlement. No amount of money can give you your years back, or repair your mental health.
Like literally millions of dollars cannot fix your family that is breaking apart. Your mental health cannot be healed with any amount of money.
Look at what you have now. Who is your family. They are real, alive, they matter, move on, it is so hard. But you need to move on.
Don’t let the system steal your years in endless battles. The thing your fighting is an uncaring machine. And you are burning your years away whilst the machine is effectively immortal.
If I could do it all over again I would not fight.
You ask: What would you do if you were me?
Be selfish, take the settlement, focus on what you have that is alive - your current family. Regrow and move on as much as you can.
Put the past behind you.
This advice makes a lot of sense to the affected person after the fact. But when someone's hurting, in that moment, the cannot relate to this advice. Human nature is immensely complex, and hence weird in that way.
OP and his wife have been struggling with the loss of their son, a part of them, for years now. By now they must've heard this advice to move on many times; but it just doesn't feel right to the person experiencing the grief and pain. The people around them, and our community here on HN, needs to provide them with small, actionable steps, so that they can slowly work up from where they are right now, without sacrificing anything or values that they hold dear to their hearts. Asking them to let go is most likely going to be counter-productive.
OP and his wife have been struggling with the loss of their son, a part of them, for years now. By now they must've heard this advice to move on many times; but it just doesn't feel right to the person experiencing the grief and pain. The people around them, and our community here on HN, needs to provide them with small, actionable steps, so that they can slowly work up from where they are right now, without sacrificing anything or values that they hold dear to their hearts. Asking them to let go is most likely going to be counter-productive.
“A warm man can never understand a cold man.” Dostoevsky
Do you assign zero value to the lives of other children that will die if the company continues its current operating procedures?
I know that if I were as selfish as you advise that I’d have immense regrets when looking back on my life.
Yes, look after your interests, but don’t disregard the rest of society.
I know that if I were as selfish as you advise that I’d have immense regrets when looking back on my life.
Yes, look after your interests, but don’t disregard the rest of society.
Dear Bereaved Parent,
Given how you have phrased the situation, I don't think you or your wife are in a place to take on battles. Please take care of yourself first, take care of your wife; tell her to take care of herself first, and then to care for you.
Take the advice of others here that makes sense to you. But give that your grief continues on after 2 years of losing your son, I would, if I were you, pick the suggestions (like that of @throwawaylinux) that help you resume normal life; it's definitely not going to be the same normal, but it would be better than how you feel now.
I have experienced personal losses, and it has taken me years to come to terms with my life as it is right now. I'm not fully recovered from those losses, but after a lot of recovery, I now consider myself to be extremely lucky to be healthy, and have a very happy family.
I am in the Bay Area. I can come talk to you, and see if I can be of any help as you navigate this tough part of your life. Please do not hesitate to send me an email [email protected], or share your phone number in email.
Lots of love, and wishing you lots of strength.
==========
Addendum: Of course, the culprits need to be brought to justice; be it the person who did it, the people who let it occur, or the emotionless company that continues its operations as if nothing happened.
But bringing them to justice doesn't have to come at a cost as big as your and your family's mental health. I'm sure you've spoken to lawyers, but if not, please get one. I'm sure there are lawyers who will not cost you anything money wise, and agree to be paid after the settlement. I have personally never dealt with lawyers, so I cannot suggest how to evaluate them; but look for lawyers/practices that treat you with utmost respect, and understand the pain you and your wife are in.
Not getting a legal representation, or just accepting the other party's offer, even if they manage to make it look large for you, will make you feel bad later on. For an auto accident I was in, I dragged my feet, because the money other party's insurance company was offering was not significant for me, and my symptoms were manageable. So when the Statue of Limitations was about to expire, I simply accepted their offer; never engaged an attorney. Now, years later , the symptoms are very hard to manage, and I wish I had engaged an attorney to represent me.
TLDR: Take care of your and your wife's mental well-being, then engage a good lawyer.
Given how you have phrased the situation, I don't think you or your wife are in a place to take on battles. Please take care of yourself first, take care of your wife; tell her to take care of herself first, and then to care for you.
Take the advice of others here that makes sense to you. But give that your grief continues on after 2 years of losing your son, I would, if I were you, pick the suggestions (like that of @throwawaylinux) that help you resume normal life; it's definitely not going to be the same normal, but it would be better than how you feel now.
I have experienced personal losses, and it has taken me years to come to terms with my life as it is right now. I'm not fully recovered from those losses, but after a lot of recovery, I now consider myself to be extremely lucky to be healthy, and have a very happy family.
I am in the Bay Area. I can come talk to you, and see if I can be of any help as you navigate this tough part of your life. Please do not hesitate to send me an email [email protected], or share your phone number in email.
Lots of love, and wishing you lots of strength.
==========
Addendum: Of course, the culprits need to be brought to justice; be it the person who did it, the people who let it occur, or the emotionless company that continues its operations as if nothing happened.
But bringing them to justice doesn't have to come at a cost as big as your and your family's mental health. I'm sure you've spoken to lawyers, but if not, please get one. I'm sure there are lawyers who will not cost you anything money wise, and agree to be paid after the settlement. I have personally never dealt with lawyers, so I cannot suggest how to evaluate them; but look for lawyers/practices that treat you with utmost respect, and understand the pain you and your wife are in.
Not getting a legal representation, or just accepting the other party's offer, even if they manage to make it look large for you, will make you feel bad later on. For an auto accident I was in, I dragged my feet, because the money other party's insurance company was offering was not significant for me, and my symptoms were manageable. So when the Statue of Limitations was about to expire, I simply accepted their offer; never engaged an attorney. Now, years later , the symptoms are very hard to manage, and I wish I had engaged an attorney to represent me.
TLDR: Take care of your and your wife's mental well-being, then engage a good lawyer.
You mentioned the amount of money is laughable - 4 years of salary. You may not be happy with this outcome, and once you sign awat your right to a legal battle, you might regret it.
Jeff Bezos likes to optimise for regret minimisation, that's what he did when he decided to build Amazon. In your case:
- If I miss 4 years of salary over doing this, how much am going to regret it? I personally won't that much.
- If I change your mind about this after settling I can't do anything about it. That's going to be a huge regret for me.
Perhaps deep inside you know you should do this legal battle but you're getting resistance from your family. Just like ksternerud said - explain and discuss with your family the potential outcomes and regrets.
I am not a lawyer and don't really know any lawyer who can help. I haven't been through this, nor do I have kids.
https://www.habitsforwellbeing.com/the-regret-minimisation-f...
Jeff Bezos likes to optimise for regret minimisation, that's what he did when he decided to build Amazon. In your case:
- If I miss 4 years of salary over doing this, how much am going to regret it? I personally won't that much.
- If I change your mind about this after settling I can't do anything about it. That's going to be a huge regret for me.
Perhaps deep inside you know you should do this legal battle but you're getting resistance from your family. Just like ksternerud said - explain and discuss with your family the potential outcomes and regrets.
I am not a lawyer and don't really know any lawyer who can help. I haven't been through this, nor do I have kids.
https://www.habitsforwellbeing.com/the-regret-minimisation-f...
As a parent I live each day with a nearly paralyzing fear informed by the tragedies that have landed on others. It's heartbreaking to think of what you must be feeling, the sort of feeling I've only imagined in nightmares.
In your position I'd fight, driven by what change I could effect over what I could receive. I'd work to keep my voice (no NDA) and shine as much light as I could on the carelessness and callousness of the company's negligence.
But, more importantly, I'd look for support, of an attorney, of friends, of therapists. Hold your wife's hand and feel your grief, and help her with hers.
I'm in SF. If you ever want to talk about this or nothing at all, DM me. Coffee is on me.
In your position I'd fight, driven by what change I could effect over what I could receive. I'd work to keep my voice (no NDA) and shine as much light as I could on the carelessness and callousness of the company's negligence.
But, more importantly, I'd look for support, of an attorney, of friends, of therapists. Hold your wife's hand and feel your grief, and help her with hers.
I'm in SF. If you ever want to talk about this or nothing at all, DM me. Coffee is on me.
+1 to every bit of this. The “paralyzing fears” part is so spot on.
You need to immediately stop posting online and consult a personal injury attorney. Anything you post online may impact your case.
Personal injury attorneys work on contingency, meaning you pay them nothing unless they win, in which case they take a portion of your damages award. I.e., you will not have to pay them anything.
If what you say here is true, they will be kicking down your door to take your case, and your problem will just be picking the right one.
You can google personal injury attorneys in SF. They will talk to you for free. I would speak with at least three before you pick one. Generally I would talk to at least one from a medium size or larger firm (~50+ attorneys).
Personal injury attorneys work on contingency, meaning you pay them nothing unless they win, in which case they take a portion of your damages award. I.e., you will not have to pay them anything.
If what you say here is true, they will be kicking down your door to take your case, and your problem will just be picking the right one.
You can google personal injury attorneys in SF. They will talk to you for free. I would speak with at least three before you pick one. Generally I would talk to at least one from a medium size or larger firm (~50+ attorneys).
I'm guessing some of the details have been changed because a 2 year-old getting killed by a garbage truck (which then fled the scene) would definitely make the news. Obviously the $40B company is Waste Management,[1] but I can't find any bay area children killed by garbage trucks in the past two years.
Honestly, this story makes no sense to me. Personal injury lawyers would be drooling over this case. Journalists and politicians would be all over it. That's what happens when there's a tragedy involving a child.[2]
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Management_(company)
2. https://twitter.com/NYCMayor/status/1214604893518008325
Honestly, this story makes no sense to me. Personal injury lawyers would be drooling over this case. Journalists and politicians would be all over it. That's what happens when there's a tragedy involving a child.[2]
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Management_(company)
2. https://twitter.com/NYCMayor/status/1214604893518008325
OP didn't say they fled the scene, they said they violated rules. And there are so many reasons something might not make the news on any given day, even something as awful as a minor dying.
In the end, there is nothing to gain from sleuthing around anyway - even if OP's perceived reality is different from yours.
In the end, there is nothing to gain from sleuthing around anyway - even if OP's perceived reality is different from yours.
> The driver who has fled
...?
I suppose they may not have fled the scene per se, possible the OP meant fled from dealing with the repercussions.
...?
I suppose they may not have fled the scene per se, possible the OP meant fled from dealing with the repercussions.
The internet is probably the wrong place to ask such a question, context matters a lot.
I cannot imagine the pain you have to go through, having kids myself.
That being said, from a rational point of view, I think what you are looking for is closure.
I'm not sure if a multiple year long trial will bring you closure, but that's something you need to consider yourself.
I do know one person who lost his daughter due to a drunk driver. He took the funds, and founded an org to prevent these kind of situations and create awareness about it. He gives a lot of talks about it, and gets lots of coverage by the press.
My gut feeling tells me that - if I would ever be in a situation comparable to him - I would love to be as strong as he is. But, truth to be told, I'm not sure if I'd have enough stamina to follow through...
Sorry for your loss...
I cannot imagine the pain you have to go through, having kids myself.
That being said, from a rational point of view, I think what you are looking for is closure.
I'm not sure if a multiple year long trial will bring you closure, but that's something you need to consider yourself.
I do know one person who lost his daughter due to a drunk driver. He took the funds, and founded an org to prevent these kind of situations and create awareness about it. He gives a lot of talks about it, and gets lots of coverage by the press.
My gut feeling tells me that - if I would ever be in a situation comparable to him - I would love to be as strong as he is. But, truth to be told, I'm not sure if I'd have enough stamina to follow through...
Sorry for your loss...
> I would never forgive me if one day another child gets killed and I could have avoided the tragedy if I choose to fight.
Sounds like you already know what you want to do. If you need help, please see a professional therapist. It isn't weakness, it isn't for other people, it isn't weird. You've had some serious trauma. Your lawyer makes a bad therapist. Court systems make for bad therapy. HN comments will never be the answer to something so deeply personal.
I hope for the best for you and your family.
Sounds like you already know what you want to do. If you need help, please see a professional therapist. It isn't weakness, it isn't for other people, it isn't weird. You've had some serious trauma. Your lawyer makes a bad therapist. Court systems make for bad therapy. HN comments will never be the answer to something so deeply personal.
I hope for the best for you and your family.
This so many times over. Therapists aren't a weakness, they're no different than a doctor or dentist -- a professional trained to help get the best outcome for you.
I was a personal injury lawyer for seven years before moving on and eventually becoming a programmer.
1. You need a lawyer. You have no objectivity in your current state. 2. Hacker News is not a lawyer. 3. SF is a plaintiff-friendly jurisdiction. 4. You said the driver "has fled". What do you mean by that?
This is not legal advice, and I don't represent you.
1. You need a lawyer. You have no objectivity in your current state. 2. Hacker News is not a lawyer. 3. SF is a plaintiff-friendly jurisdiction. 4. You said the driver "has fled". What do you mean by that?
This is not legal advice, and I don't represent you.
I lost a child 8 years ago. You will never be the same, you will never forget, you will never stop hurting. But it does become bearable. I cried my eyes out on the way to work and the way home every day for 6 months, but that let me get through the work day without crying. The thing you have to focus on is that nothing brings your child back, there is no way to fix things. You can only fix yourself and support your family and help everyone around you heal.
I took a couple of days off after the funereal and went back to work. My wife took a month off and after a couple of years she now says that was a mistake. Wallowing in your misery destroys you, and can destroy your family. I may sound harsh but you have to take care of yourself and your family first. Go back to work. The distraction of work gives you a break from the grief and you are providing for your family. It took me 6 months before I had a day I didn't cry, then another 6 to get to a day where I realized I was going to be ok.
As far as the settlement with the company, I think that is where you might be getting hung up. Get a lawyer or settle, either way the pain does not go away. Just choose a path and stay on it so you are moving forward. Make the decision to not regret whichever path you take. You cannot let this destroy your family or your life.
I took a couple of days off after the funereal and went back to work. My wife took a month off and after a couple of years she now says that was a mistake. Wallowing in your misery destroys you, and can destroy your family. I may sound harsh but you have to take care of yourself and your family first. Go back to work. The distraction of work gives you a break from the grief and you are providing for your family. It took me 6 months before I had a day I didn't cry, then another 6 to get to a day where I realized I was going to be ok.
As far as the settlement with the company, I think that is where you might be getting hung up. Get a lawyer or settle, either way the pain does not go away. Just choose a path and stay on it so you are moving forward. Make the decision to not regret whichever path you take. You cannot let this destroy your family or your life.
Personal injury attorney here.
I lost my mom last year, and I can't imagine what it would be like to lose one of my kids.
Not sure what jurisdiction you're in, but here are some things to consider.
1. The law on wrongful death in your jurisdiction. Many states have caps. Was the offer close to the cap?
2. Punitive damages. You don't get punitive damages for ordinary negligence. Typically it requires a reckless disregard for the rights of others, e.g. 66 in a 65 doesn't cut it, but 100 might. You mentioned that he fled. That is largely irrelevant - the issue is what he was doing at the time of the accident. What did the mediator think your chances for punitive damages?
3. Be realistic about what a trial will accomplish. Mostly it will be billable hours for the defense attorneys and experts. Chances are its not going to change how the company operates any more than the tragedy already has.
Again, my condolences.
I lost my mom last year, and I can't imagine what it would be like to lose one of my kids.
Not sure what jurisdiction you're in, but here are some things to consider.
1. The law on wrongful death in your jurisdiction. Many states have caps. Was the offer close to the cap?
2. Punitive damages. You don't get punitive damages for ordinary negligence. Typically it requires a reckless disregard for the rights of others, e.g. 66 in a 65 doesn't cut it, but 100 might. You mentioned that he fled. That is largely irrelevant - the issue is what he was doing at the time of the accident. What did the mediator think your chances for punitive damages?
3. Be realistic about what a trial will accomplish. Mostly it will be billable hours for the defense attorneys and experts. Chances are its not going to change how the company operates any more than the tragedy already has.
Again, my condolences.
> Chances are its not going to change how the company operates any more than the tragedy already has.
This seems so wrong to me. The death of a child (or multiple instances of it) is not going to change how a company operates. Neither will the trial and the force of law, and the public exposure. What is law for, then? I mean it rhetorically, of course, and not directed at you personally.
This seems so wrong to me. The death of a child (or multiple instances of it) is not going to change how a company operates. Neither will the trial and the force of law, and the public exposure. What is law for, then? I mean it rhetorically, of course, and not directed at you personally.
I said that taking the case to trial - as opposed to settling now - isn't going to change how the company operates.
A couple of points. First, there's no guarantee that you get more at trial. In most jurisdictions comparative fault would be an issue. Not to be cold, but the defense will be able to argue that a 2 year old shouldn't have been allowed to play around a trash truck, and that if parents or whoever had been doing their job this wouldn't have happened. And therefore, caregiver's negligence should offset their liability.
Two, the death of a child very likely changed how the company operates. Companies are run and operated by people, and the death of a child affects everyone.
Third, insurance is likely involved. Thus the idea that taking the case to trial is going to change behavior more than settling now, is unlikely.
I suppose the bottom line is, the case has a value. Wrongful death cases get tried and the attorneys and insurance companies keep track of those results. If the submitter is being offered something close, he should take it. If not, either tell his attorney to negotiate for more or get a new attorney.
A couple of points. First, there's no guarantee that you get more at trial. In most jurisdictions comparative fault would be an issue. Not to be cold, but the defense will be able to argue that a 2 year old shouldn't have been allowed to play around a trash truck, and that if parents or whoever had been doing their job this wouldn't have happened. And therefore, caregiver's negligence should offset their liability.
Two, the death of a child very likely changed how the company operates. Companies are run and operated by people, and the death of a child affects everyone.
Third, insurance is likely involved. Thus the idea that taking the case to trial is going to change behavior more than settling now, is unlikely.
I suppose the bottom line is, the case has a value. Wrongful death cases get tried and the attorneys and insurance companies keep track of those results. If the submitter is being offered something close, he should take it. If not, either tell his attorney to negotiate for more or get a new attorney.
This kind of law (tort) is for retroactively writing the contract that would get society to agree to terms to permit the action taken by the defendant -- in other words, literally: what would we demand of the plaintiff to permit it to continue to act in the way it did?
On an individual basis for the victim's families there is no amount of money. But, unfortunately, as a society we regularly agree to a value.
On an individual basis for the victim's families there is no amount of money. But, unfortunately, as a society we regularly agree to a value.
You need your family on board if you wish to fight successfully.
You need everyone steeled for combat, and ways to shelter those who can't handle it (without judgment). You need to develop a strategy, and it must encompass your entire clan.
A campaign is not fun. It takes years of blood, sweat and tears, and it's not even guaranteed. You need to decide what losses (yes you'll have them) you can handle, and which you can't.
But start with the family in a respectful way that honors how each member feels (including yourself) and what they can do. You'll get nowhere without their support. You need to listen to them, and they to you (but mostly you listening to them).
And if you can't get their support, then I'm sorry you'll have to let it go. Going in without it will tear your family apart.
You need everyone steeled for combat, and ways to shelter those who can't handle it (without judgment). You need to develop a strategy, and it must encompass your entire clan.
A campaign is not fun. It takes years of blood, sweat and tears, and it's not even guaranteed. You need to decide what losses (yes you'll have them) you can handle, and which you can't.
But start with the family in a respectful way that honors how each member feels (including yourself) and what they can do. You'll get nowhere without their support. You need to listen to them, and they to you (but mostly you listening to them).
And if you can't get their support, then I'm sorry you'll have to let it go. Going in without it will tear your family apart.
About support, finding people who have gone through something similar is a great aid, in the sense of not feeling alone and have someone who truly know what is you are going trough.
My commiserations to you, what a tragedy.
Other advice is good here that was posted.
My tragedy is not even 1% the same as yours but I will share it to show how it was resolved
1. Lodge a formal complaint with company if you haven't already.
2. Speak to lawyers
3. Speak to local officials, councillors and senior politicians. These people represent you.
4. Threaten to go to papers or social media with your story.
5. At this point normally a big company will escalate to a specific team if you do step 4. To mitigate PR backlash
6. Reiterate your demands
7. Come to a resolution
Other advice is good here that was posted.
My tragedy is not even 1% the same as yours but I will share it to show how it was resolved
1. Lodge a formal complaint with company if you haven't already.
2. Speak to lawyers
3. Speak to local officials, councillors and senior politicians. These people represent you.
4. Threaten to go to papers or social media with your story.
5. At this point normally a big company will escalate to a specific team if you do step 4. To mitigate PR backlash
6. Reiterate your demands
7. Come to a resolution
As a father, I can imagine (in some small way), the pain you’re feeling. Words fail.
You want/need a good lawyer here (be careful—plenty will see $$). I always advise clients to make use of their network to get a good referral. Otherwise, it can be hard to penetrate the smoke and mirrors of legal marketing.
As much as I can be salty and cynical about my profession (I’m a lawyer, in case that’s not clear), this is what we’re trained for. You want a gladiator.
Feel free to ask any follow up questions, and I pray you can find some modicum of peace in the years to come.
You want/need a good lawyer here (be careful—plenty will see $$). I always advise clients to make use of their network to get a good referral. Otherwise, it can be hard to penetrate the smoke and mirrors of legal marketing.
As much as I can be salty and cynical about my profession (I’m a lawyer, in case that’s not clear), this is what we’re trained for. You want a gladiator.
Feel free to ask any follow up questions, and I pray you can find some modicum of peace in the years to come.
Reach out to journalists with your story. First by contacting local media and reporters. Then by Googling for reports on similar stories, and contacting the people who reported on them.
There also might be non-profits and communities that are dedicated to handling such cases that might have helpful resources.
Definitely talk to a lawyer, though.
There also might be non-profits and communities that are dedicated to handling such cases that might have helpful resources.
Definitely talk to a lawyer, though.
Definitely talk to the lawyer before talking to a journalist, and ask them about talking to the journalist! And if you go the public-attack route you should have a careful strategy and plan before you start, because you lose control of it after that.
A journalist is not in the business of helping you, they are in the business of writing what the person who signs their pay check wants. Keep that in mind. They will ask other parties to the story for their side of it. Journalists also spin, twist, omit, and sometimes even lie. All that is before the public makes their opinions about the story or reposts it on facebook. And even if you do get a favorable and sympathetic story, there will always be some people who don't take your side of it and will question it or even become quite unhinged about it especially if there are children involved. You need to think very hard about what you want to achieve before you go to a journalist, and possibly even engage a PR agency to advise you if this is part of a legal or lobbying strategy.
A journalist is not in the business of helping you, they are in the business of writing what the person who signs their pay check wants. Keep that in mind. They will ask other parties to the story for their side of it. Journalists also spin, twist, omit, and sometimes even lie. All that is before the public makes their opinions about the story or reposts it on facebook. And even if you do get a favorable and sympathetic story, there will always be some people who don't take your side of it and will question it or even become quite unhinged about it especially if there are children involved. You need to think very hard about what you want to achieve before you go to a journalist, and possibly even engage a PR agency to advise you if this is part of a legal or lobbying strategy.
Hard to even imagine what you must be going through. If I may suggest
1. Let the lawyer fight your legal fight 2. Make sure the legal battle get publicity even if you settle with the company not admitting any guilt 3. Use the settlement money for your own betterment and however you deem beneficial to a cause personal to you.
1. Let the lawyer fight your legal fight 2. Make sure the legal battle get publicity even if you settle with the company not admitting any guilt 3. Use the settlement money for your own betterment and however you deem beneficial to a cause personal to you.
Hello, we are Families for Safe Streets. A non-profit organization made up of families that have lost loved ones due to traffic violence. We want to help you. WWW.familiesforsafestreets.org We have a chapter in San Francisco. Please reach out to: [email protected] Ally Geller at San Francisco Walks. She is our liaison to Families for Safe Streets, San Francisco.
Good luck and please take care,
Debbie Kahn, Seth’s Mom
Founding Member, Families for Safe Streets
Battles are for most people a huge energy drain, which effectively means that prolonged battle will tear a family apart.
So what is the most important for you? Family, justice, compensation or prevention.
Choose one and be happy if you achieve another.
Personally I would go with family as primary and prevention as secondary. That does not mean the other choices are in some way less, it just reflects my personal beliefs.
Personally I would go with family as primary and prevention as secondary. That does not mean the other choices are in some way less, it just reflects my personal beliefs.
Work with your family and a mental health professional to determine if you are able to live with this tragedy or if you have a need to do something to help prevent it from happening to others. One of my friends manages the drivers for a much smaller waste management company the specializes in food waste for composting. Keeping drivers is next to impossible. Many have long histories of felonies and substance abuse. It's one of the few jobs that people with such backgrounds are able to easily get and most of the time, they're the only ones who apply. Turnover is high, mostly because they frequently fall back upon their past bad behaviors. Perhaps these aren't the types of people who should be entrusted with operating such vehicles around the public. Becoming an activist on this cause would likely be a very significant change in the direction of your life but maybe that's what you need. Be sure to include your family in any decision. All of you are suffering and need to be able to rely on each other.
There is nothing that can be said or done to fix this pain.
Today I did a funeral for a friend of 20+ years who died far too young. After the funeral I sat with another family as they made the decision to turn off life support for the matriarch of the family.
I can not sleep. The grief of death can make living insurmountable.
Even in this suffering your life can have meaning.
“In some ways suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning, such as the meaning of a sacrifice.” ― Viktor E. Frankl
It is ok to hurt.
My best advice is to find community that will love you and your wife and hold space as you find meaning. A faith community and/or a grief support group is a great place to look.
You are not alone. I hope you find comfort from the many caring responses in this thread.
Victor Frankl’s book “Man’s Search For Meaning” has helped me.
Look me up if you want to talk. Same twitter username.
Today I did a funeral for a friend of 20+ years who died far too young. After the funeral I sat with another family as they made the decision to turn off life support for the matriarch of the family.
I can not sleep. The grief of death can make living insurmountable.
Even in this suffering your life can have meaning.
“In some ways suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning, such as the meaning of a sacrifice.” ― Viktor E. Frankl
It is ok to hurt.
My best advice is to find community that will love you and your wife and hold space as you find meaning. A faith community and/or a grief support group is a great place to look.
You are not alone. I hope you find comfort from the many caring responses in this thread.
Victor Frankl’s book “Man’s Search For Meaning” has helped me.
Look me up if you want to talk. Same twitter username.
Get a lawyer and a therapist immediately. If you want justice, you need your mental fortitude back and a trained professional who specializes in fighting these types of monsters.
I am a father of two wonderful kids. What i would do? I have no clue at all. I can only hope i will be able to have some shred of sanity left to know i need good independent professional help. Companies are soulless unemotional things. Do not post any details here. The company will use anything and everything to make sure they have to pay as little as possible.
I have been fighting an insurance company for many many years now. They do not care about anything at all.
I have been fighting an insurance company for many many years now. They do not care about anything at all.
I would go back to the work so that I am never in a position to even consider their settlement... and spend some effort in fixing the core issues that prevents such accidents in the future by bringing it out to the public... maybe also work for companies that are in the business of fixing those issues... not with anger or hatred which can lead to non-solutions which may do even bigger harm but with compassion. Is it possible for you to work for that company so that you can try to fix it from the inside?
Ideally, I would do that, given that I could get over the grief and somehow become enlightened... but then it is easy to imagine being enlightened when it comes to problems one is not facing themself.
In reality, however, I would live a miserable depressed life stuck in past trauma waiting for inevitable end of my suffering, like I do with the problems I personally have in my life.
I have come to learn that Vipassana meditation, Peter A. Levine's trauma therapy work, Ayuaschia and a whole lot of spiritual and other practices and therapies are supposed to help one get out of the rut and move on... but I have yet to find anything or have access, or have ability or will to find anything that has worked for me.
Ideally, I would do that, given that I could get over the grief and somehow become enlightened... but then it is easy to imagine being enlightened when it comes to problems one is not facing themself.
In reality, however, I would live a miserable depressed life stuck in past trauma waiting for inevitable end of my suffering, like I do with the problems I personally have in my life.
I have come to learn that Vipassana meditation, Peter A. Levine's trauma therapy work, Ayuaschia and a whole lot of spiritual and other practices and therapies are supposed to help one get out of the rut and move on... but I have yet to find anything or have access, or have ability or will to find anything that has worked for me.
> The driver who has fled violated multiple traffic rules which directly caused my son's horrible death.
Why isn't this a criminal manslaughter case in the US?
Why isn't this a criminal manslaughter case in the US?
This makes me cry just thinking about it. I have two young children.
Please live your life. This tragedy will follow you forever, but it doesn't need to consume you.
Please live your life. This tragedy will follow you forever, but it doesn't need to consume you.
Yup... Tears filled my eyes upon reading this one.
I'm the dad of two little ones - we live in what I would call a mostly safe cul de sac, which is actually considered a Court given it has less than eight houses. The only nightmares I've had in the past few years consist of my kids getting hit by one of the multiple delivery/rental trucks due to everyone ordering online these days. I can't even bear to think what OP is going through, because I would more than likely become comatose myself.
I'm the dad of two little ones - we live in what I would call a mostly safe cul de sac, which is actually considered a Court given it has less than eight houses. The only nightmares I've had in the past few years consist of my kids getting hit by one of the multiple delivery/rental trucks due to everyone ordering online these days. I can't even bear to think what OP is going through, because I would more than likely become comatose myself.
I felt so sad hearing of your loss, and those of your family. It touched my heart. I do however, think you need some tough love.
First, you need to find a way to end your period of grieving. The purpose of your life is to live it, and your not fulfilling that.
If your Christian, consider following the Jewish periods of mourning, that are intended to enable you to return to life, and the lives of those around you. While Christian doctrine says that Judaism is obsolete and replaced, consider that Jesus would have done it the same way.
Second, I am not your lawyer. Sign nothing and pursue a wrongful death charge against the driver if that is the case. Depending on the circumstances one of the charges of manslaughter might be applicable. Why is this not being pursued by the authorities in your jurisdiction?
Sue the company for negligence if you really do have grounds. If you do not, then stop this thinking.
This is the path that respects your son, not you sitting by his grave at the cemetery every day. More than that, respect him (and your family) by setting an example and returning to life.
First, you need to find a way to end your period of grieving. The purpose of your life is to live it, and your not fulfilling that.
If your Christian, consider following the Jewish periods of mourning, that are intended to enable you to return to life, and the lives of those around you. While Christian doctrine says that Judaism is obsolete and replaced, consider that Jesus would have done it the same way.
Second, I am not your lawyer. Sign nothing and pursue a wrongful death charge against the driver if that is the case. Depending on the circumstances one of the charges of manslaughter might be applicable. Why is this not being pursued by the authorities in your jurisdiction?
Sue the company for negligence if you really do have grounds. If you do not, then stop this thinking.
This is the path that respects your son, not you sitting by his grave at the cemetery every day. More than that, respect him (and your family) by setting an example and returning to life.
Do you have an attorney? You mention a settlement but nothing about any legal representation. You should NOT be communicating with the company AT ALL EXCEPT THROUGH A LAWYER. Anything you say to the company will be noted and used against you. And as you already realized, they don't care about your situation.
I'm not a lawyer, but from what I'm reading it sounds like you have a case with a death of a minor, evidence of negligence, and potentially a company history of similar lawsuits. This is ALL in your favor.
Please get yourself a lawyer if you haven't. Find out your legal deadlines, etc. Once you know your timeframe, get a therapist and possibly a psychiatrist. The former works through your grief through discussion, the second can prescribe medication if the first deems that discussion and cognitive techniques aren't enough. (I don't recommend medication until you have tried regular therapy for a while and not been successful with it at all.)
I'm not a lawyer, but from what I'm reading it sounds like you have a case with a death of a minor, evidence of negligence, and potentially a company history of similar lawsuits. This is ALL in your favor.
Please get yourself a lawyer if you haven't. Find out your legal deadlines, etc. Once you know your timeframe, get a therapist and possibly a psychiatrist. The former works through your grief through discussion, the second can prescribe medication if the first deems that discussion and cognitive techniques aren't enough. (I don't recommend medication until you have tried regular therapy for a while and not been successful with it at all.)
Not sure whether I'm helping or coming off unsensitive but this is what I understood a few years after I lost my grandfather: none of the memories I had with him happened in the cemetery, this is only the place where his body had to be taken. Of course I still go once in a while, take care of the flowers. But his garden, his house, the good times happened there.
I was a personal injury lawyer for seven years before moving on and eventually becoming a programmer.
1. You need a lawyer. You have no objectivity in your current state. 2. Hacker News is not a lawyer. 3. SF is a plaintiff-friendly jurisdiction. 4. You said the driver "has fled". What do you mean by that?
This is not legal advice, and I don't represent you.
1. You need a lawyer. You have no objectivity in your current state. 2. Hacker News is not a lawyer. 3. SF is a plaintiff-friendly jurisdiction. 4. You said the driver "has fled". What do you mean by that?
This is not legal advice, and I don't represent you.
Very sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine it really, I'd have to go through it to feel the same. I only hope you can cope with it in time :(
Personally, the damage is done. While no amount of money can ever bring your son back, you could at least do some good with anything you get from the company. So don't take this as getting money in return for your son's life, that is now what this is. With that in mind, I'd personally think about two ways: - Increase the amount (at least $1 million) and put a condition in your agreement to keep silent. The condition should be for the company to look into the shortcoming and correct it, with an assessment a few months later (either internal or by yourself) whose report should be provided to you. - Failing the first, take them to court if you know you can win. This will not only (hopefully) increase what you get, but also forces them to correct themselves
Personally, the damage is done. While no amount of money can ever bring your son back, you could at least do some good with anything you get from the company. So don't take this as getting money in return for your son's life, that is now what this is. With that in mind, I'd personally think about two ways: - Increase the amount (at least $1 million) and put a condition in your agreement to keep silent. The condition should be for the company to look into the shortcoming and correct it, with an assessment a few months later (either internal or by yourself) whose report should be provided to you. - Failing the first, take them to court if you know you can win. This will not only (hopefully) increase what you get, but also forces them to correct themselves
My heart goes out to you and your family. If you aren’t already participating in cognitive behavioral therapy on a weekly basis then I would start there. You can’t be effective in fighting this if you can’t even take care of yourself. I understand and respect your cynicism but I highly doubt the goal of this company is to kill more children and you need to accept the fact that this was a human error made by one man. Is the company’s response shitty? Absolutely. No amount of money will bring your child back and you will have to carry this pain for the rest of your life. However, the pain is not insurmountable and can be curtailed through therapy which will make you better equipped to handle it. You have to lead by example and pick yourself up and get through this for you, your spouse and any other family members who were impacted by this.
Needs more details than statement of one party.
It's oddly phrased: > killed by a garbage truck next to a children's playground
Well, if playground is next to road and the kid was on the road it's not really (entirely) fault of the driver. So we should first get straight facts what happened and who is responsible for it, instead trying to blame just one party.
Only based on facts can anyone provide you recommendation how to approach it legally and mentally, because it's very different if you are in right and not responsible at all or you are partially responsible for the death.
Going to cemetery every day for 2 years is for sure not healthy approach, it won't help bring your son back. I have two kids and can't imagine what I would be doing if something like this happened to them, if I would be able to work and how I would be dealing with such loss, but you should see therapist.
It's oddly phrased: > killed by a garbage truck next to a children's playground
Well, if playground is next to road and the kid was on the road it's not really (entirely) fault of the driver. So we should first get straight facts what happened and who is responsible for it, instead trying to blame just one party.
Only based on facts can anyone provide you recommendation how to approach it legally and mentally, because it's very different if you are in right and not responsible at all or you are partially responsible for the death.
Going to cemetery every day for 2 years is for sure not healthy approach, it won't help bring your son back. I have two kids and can't imagine what I would be doing if something like this happened to them, if I would be able to work and how I would be dealing with such loss, but you should see therapist.
This. What is a 2 year old doing in a place they can be hit by a truck?
I instantly started crying when I read this. My heart goes out to you.
Find a lawyer that will lift the burden. It won’t be easy to find one, but make that your mission for now. Someone here on HN might post about someone they know that can help.
There are only a few ways that you can punish companies like this.
1. Get as much money as you can. There are many tangible reasons for this.
2. Invoke change that will be wide sweeping and make a positive change in the world. For example, I would suggest making it so the company can never operate a truck within a 100 yards of any school while children or school are in session. Maybe cities can adopt this change and make it law. Have the law named after your son. This is the type of victory and positive change you can hope for.
You need a purpose and mission in life. Try giving the above a thought.
Find a lawyer that will lift the burden. It won’t be easy to find one, but make that your mission for now. Someone here on HN might post about someone they know that can help.
There are only a few ways that you can punish companies like this.
1. Get as much money as you can. There are many tangible reasons for this.
2. Invoke change that will be wide sweeping and make a positive change in the world. For example, I would suggest making it so the company can never operate a truck within a 100 yards of any school while children or school are in session. Maybe cities can adopt this change and make it law. Have the law named after your son. This is the type of victory and positive change you can hope for.
You need a purpose and mission in life. Try giving the above a thought.
[deleted]
I am so sorry for your loss.
I urge you not to spend your life in litigation. You cannot litigate against future harm.
Take the money and move with your wife to a new place where you can write new stories. And like others have said: please make sure that you are meeting with a therapist.
You are loved. You are not alone.
I urge you not to spend your life in litigation. You cannot litigate against future harm.
Take the money and move with your wife to a new place where you can write new stories. And like others have said: please make sure that you are meeting with a therapist.
You are loved. You are not alone.
[deleted]
In comparison: Just yesterday, a boat driver on Lake Garda in Italy was sentenced to 4.5 years prison, his assistant to 2.9 years for accidentally killing two persons. And the insurance paid to the families 1.3 million euros and 2.5 million euros, respectively. In Italy, this is a quite an amount of money.
https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa/urteil-gardasee-unf...
My take: try to readjust your life and postpone a lawsuit. Keep an eye on the limitation period.
Disclaimer: I am not an expert in any way, nor did I suffer anything alike, nor do I know someone personally.
https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa/urteil-gardasee-unf...
My take: try to readjust your life and postpone a lawsuit. Keep an eye on the limitation period.
Disclaimer: I am not an expert in any way, nor did I suffer anything alike, nor do I know someone personally.
Straight talk speaking as someone who has experienced death multiple times, expected and unexpected, natural and awful:
Find a grief counselor and see them regularly. It sounds like you still have a little bit of time left before the statue of limitations runs out. So start getting your mental health in order before making any big decisions.
Spending every day at the cemetery is very unhealthy. If you keep immersing your mind in what you have lost, and in rage, your mind will just become more and more like that. Working out your grief by tilting at windmills is likely to send your mental health into a cascading decline—even if you win. Money can't make you whole.
Please get support.
Find a grief counselor and see them regularly. It sounds like you still have a little bit of time left before the statue of limitations runs out. So start getting your mental health in order before making any big decisions.
Spending every day at the cemetery is very unhealthy. If you keep immersing your mind in what you have lost, and in rage, your mind will just become more and more like that. Working out your grief by tilting at windmills is likely to send your mental health into a cascading decline—even if you win. Money can't make you whole.
Please get support.
First of all, sorry for your loss.
You should really, _really_ speak to a therapist. This one of the best things you could do, by a far margin. It will help you in your life much more than getting a big sum from the company that wants to shut you up.
Wishing you strength,
You should really, _really_ speak to a therapist. This one of the best things you could do, by a far margin. It will help you in your life much more than getting a big sum from the company that wants to shut you up.
Wishing you strength,
Finish the war. Decide on your exit strategy. What do you really want from all this? What can you actually get?
Attrition favors the party with more resources. Don't drag it out. After two years and without the full support of family, it sounds like you may have already lost.
That doesn't mean that you can't start another war later. Gather your resources. You can build a better company, or join a competitor. Or you can tackle the legal/regulatory aspects now that you have a story that you can't talk about.
Use the pain and anger as fuel. But the fuel has to be burned or it will destroy you from within, the longer you ruminate on it.
Attrition favors the party with more resources. Don't drag it out. After two years and without the full support of family, it sounds like you may have already lost.
That doesn't mean that you can't start another war later. Gather your resources. You can build a better company, or join a competitor. Or you can tackle the legal/regulatory aspects now that you have a story that you can't talk about.
Use the pain and anger as fuel. But the fuel has to be burned or it will destroy you from within, the longer you ruminate on it.
I cannot imagine a greater pain than the death of my child at 2 years old. I would be lost.
So I am praying for you. This doesn't help directly, but I hope you can know that we are out here, we hear you.
I immediately got a question when I put this into prayer. The question I got was, What your child, your angel child, wish for you and your family? What does that life look like?
So presumptuous and risky for me to pose these questions to you, in your pain. But that's the message I got back: what is the life and light beyond this?
The money and law procedures surely must matter in a real life. What happens after that? What miracle is waiting?
So I am praying for you. This doesn't help directly, but I hope you can know that we are out here, we hear you.
I immediately got a question when I put this into prayer. The question I got was, What your child, your angel child, wish for you and your family? What does that life look like?
So presumptuous and risky for me to pose these questions to you, in your pain. But that's the message I got back: what is the life and light beyond this?
The money and law procedures surely must matter in a real life. What happens after that? What miracle is waiting?
[deleted]
It sounds like you are going through an unimaginably rough time. You need to take care of yourself. Make sure you're eating and sleeping. Make sure to get some sort of activity in.. for energy. You need to seek professional help (Talk to a psychologist), get assistance just making it through this.
At the end of the day, you have to figure out what's best for you and yours. Be extremely selfish here. If fighting is what you feel you need to do, follow your heart, find a sharp legal team.
I empathize w/ you as a father.
I lost my older brother in a similar fashion.
At the end of the day, you have to figure out what's best for you and yours. Be extremely selfish here. If fighting is what you feel you need to do, follow your heart, find a sharp legal team.
I empathize w/ you as a father.
I lost my older brother in a similar fashion.
I cannot imagine the pain you're feeling. I'd just like to add to the other comments that you can also refuse the settlement and still not pursue litigation (the latter will undoubtedly add additional stress). The advantage here is that you are not bound to any NDA and will be free to speak out about this your own terms, and in your own time. Especially if the money is insignificant to you. Ultimately, you should choose the way that will give the best opportunities for healing for both you are your family.
Hello, we are Families for Safe Streets. A non-profit organization made up of families that have lost loved ones due to traffic violence. We want to help you. WWW.familiesforsafestreets.org We have a chapter in San Francisco. Please reach out to: [email protected] Ally Geller at San Francisco Walks. She is our liaison to Families for Safe Streets, San Francisco.
Good luck and please take care,
Debbie Kahn, Seth’s Mom
Founding Member, Families for Safe Streets
[deleted]
I can't begin to imagine pain you're feeling. I have a two year old and I am tearing up reading this.
I don't know if it helps, but https://www.familiesforsafestreets.org/ might be able to help, or put you in touch with others who can.
Drivers are the leading killers of children in the US. We accept this slaughter without a second thought. I wish people cared.
I don't know if it helps, but https://www.familiesforsafestreets.org/ might be able to help, or put you in touch with others who can.
Drivers are the leading killers of children in the US. We accept this slaughter without a second thought. I wish people cared.
Get angry. Fight. Don't let another child get killed.
The top post on HN when I last checked was about Mercedes removing all liability from the driver while it's engaged. When I first read that I imagined all the people who would have stories like this. This is the second link I opened, it was number 6. These lawyers must fear consequences for allowing more stories like this to happen.
That is not cynical enough, by far.
The goal and likely result will be an impossible-to-sue conglomerate that replaces individual liability with corporate liability.
The goal and likely result will be an impossible-to-sue conglomerate that replaces individual liability with corporate liability.
I am inclined to agree.
They want you to remain silent? That would be reason enough for me to drag them through the media.
They want you to remain silent? That would be reason enough for me to drag them through the media.
You are seriously going to recommend this without knowing this person more than what he wrote? A legal battle can be a torture for many many years and without any guarantee of anything. Huge companies has an army of lawyers that will use any legal loophole they can find.
He should speak to a lawyer, his family and probably a therapist.
He should speak to a lawyer, his family and probably a therapist.
I would fight like Hell. And I know just how hard this is. 12 years ago my only child was run over and killed by a reckless bus driver. Our lives have never been the same. But every day we fight for our lives! We fight for safer streets, safer laws, and better cars that are smaller and safer for pedestrians. Join us: [email protected]
Take care,
Debbie Kahn
Www.familiesforsafestreets.org
Fight. Make the bastards pay. If you're not working with a lawyer find and accident and injury lawyer with a track record of success in your area. Most of them work on contingency, so they don't get paid if you don't win.
The fact that the waste company has offered a settlement means they know they would lose in court.
The fact that the waste company has offered a settlement means they know they would lose in court.
"There is a sweet anguish springing up in our bosoms when a child's face brightens under the shadow of a waiting angel"
This is tragic but you need to seek out a doctor for your mental health so you and your family can heal from this. Money won’t help you heal, and if you continue down this path of not seeking emotional closure this company will destroy the lives of your entire family, not just your son. Don’t let them have that power over you.
I am so terribly sorry to hear what has happened to your family. What you have gone through and what you are going through are unspeakably painful. When I lost my wife last year, I needed a lot of comforting. I still do. I'm not sharing this with you because I think you needed to get religion or change religion or whatever. I'm sharing it because it helped me and continues to help me immeasurably:
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g201407/tragedy-loss...
What you learn in that will help you.
You may also need to accept that it might be out of your power to fix this situation. That doesn't mean you failed your son. It means that the world around us is broken. As individuals we can't always do anything to fix it. And I'm not saying don't fight. I'm saying count the cost.
But there is something that's broken that you can do something about: Your surviving family. They need you. You need them. Focus on the living and your son will never be forgotten. It already took his life. Don't let it take yours too.
The Bible teaches that when a body dies the existence has ended. But yours continues, so focus on taking care of yourself and your wife. Hang in there. It does get better but you have to work toward that. Work on regaining focus on the things that are most important so that you can help your family get through every day.
I will pray that God comforts you the way he is comforting me.
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g201407/tragedy-loss...
What you learn in that will help you.
You may also need to accept that it might be out of your power to fix this situation. That doesn't mean you failed your son. It means that the world around us is broken. As individuals we can't always do anything to fix it. And I'm not saying don't fight. I'm saying count the cost.
But there is something that's broken that you can do something about: Your surviving family. They need you. You need them. Focus on the living and your son will never be forgotten. It already took his life. Don't let it take yours too.
The Bible teaches that when a body dies the existence has ended. But yours continues, so focus on taking care of yourself and your wife. Hang in there. It does get better but you have to work toward that. Work on regaining focus on the things that are most important so that you can help your family get through every day.
I will pray that God comforts you the way he is comforting me.
Losing a child is one of the most devastating things that can happen to a person and to the relationship between a couple.
I would find a support group of others who have experienced this loss and understand the magnitude of the situation, as well as seek guidance from a grief counselor who specializes in the loss of a child.
I would find a support group of others who have experienced this loss and understand the magnitude of the situation, as well as seek guidance from a grief counselor who specializes in the loss of a child.
I want to hug you and take away your pain. I can only imagine the strength of you and your family to go through this, and especially for this long. If possible, please get counseling for you and your wife. It'll help with your clarity, and could help you navigate through this mess.
[deleted]
First of all, my heart goes out to you and your family. I would recommend that you and your wife seek a councilor. You can help each other more than you know. Also, remember that a person's death does not define their life. Carry your son in your heart. The money will never heal you.
[deleted]
Please seek out a reputable grief counselor/ therapist specializing in grief counseling. You and your wife deserve a professional to help give you the framework for safely grieving and not spiraling out of control left to your own devices. Please it will help, I promise.
I'm so sorry for your loss. As a parent, I can only imagine the pain you are going through.
I can't tell you what to do, but the harsher the sanctions they face, the more likely they are to put steps in place to stop this happening to someone else. The cunts.
I can't tell you what to do, but the harsher the sanctions they face, the more likely they are to put steps in place to stop this happening to someone else. The cunts.
You need to see light at the end of the tunnel
you may not see it now
talk to a few lawyers (litigation? or personal accidents?) to assess the situation and give you better news
some lawyers could accept to work based on commission of the awarded amount
otherwise you could probably crowd fund the value
you may not see it now
talk to a few lawyers (litigation? or personal accidents?) to assess the situation and give you better news
some lawyers could accept to work based on commission of the awarded amount
otherwise you could probably crowd fund the value
there is a lawyering up way to go forward
And there is a political way to go forward, start a political movement of people who sympathize with you, and don't want anything like that ever to happen, declare a goal to provide legal council to every case like that and sue the fuck out of every company that does anything like that again.
The perfect start is to start a fundraising campaign(with first step to fund your fight, and all other steps to create a nonprofit).
P.S. also it would strengthen you negotiating position in current settlement, but i hope that if you have the strength to start fighting you will not walk away.
And there is a political way to go forward, start a political movement of people who sympathize with you, and don't want anything like that ever to happen, declare a goal to provide legal council to every case like that and sue the fuck out of every company that does anything like that again.
The perfect start is to start a fundraising campaign(with first step to fund your fight, and all other steps to create a nonprofit).
P.S. also it would strengthen you negotiating position in current settlement, but i hope that if you have the strength to start fighting you will not walk away.
Also, sorry for my cynical point of view, but the greatest achievements of good people are done being fueled by their trauma and experience of injustice, which means that historically speaking you are in the best position to do good compared to the most of us.
It's a lot easier to believe that you would fight for good if you promised so, compared to a random politician/non profit leader8 etc
It's a lot easier to believe that you would fight for good if you promised so, compared to a random politician/non profit leader8 etc
So sorry for your loss. If you choose to settle (nobody would blame you) perhaps some of the money could go to improve the security of your neighborhood (fence/signs etc).
Speak to a lawyer. Speak to a therapist.
Good luck and a virtual hug from me.
Speak to a lawyer. Speak to a therapist.
Good luck and a virtual hug from me.
[deleted]
I don't have any advice for you. I hope you come out of it stronger. There is no greater pain for a parent than outliving their children. You'll be in my prayers. Stay strong.
Find a lawyer incentivized to sue the F out of them. Find a good psychologist and also a marriage counselor. Spend money on mental health. Consider having more kids if you can.
Find a lawyer who can get the max then try to move on. There’s no justice in this world but at least you can get some money to take care of yourself.
Lawyer up and sue them for all their worth and then seek counseling.
My condolences on the loss of your son. No parent should have to go through that. I’m very sorry.
My condolences on the loss of your son. No parent should have to go through that. I’m very sorry.
Friend, I can only begin to understand your pain. Please seek hope in the future, live the life your little buddy would want for you.
If it were me, I'd fight. Maybe my family wouldn't understand at the time, but they'd be proud of it afterward.
the money received from settlement is taxable from IRS. and the money def doesn't bring your kid back. but according to law there are legal limits on how much you can claim. it might be easy to earn for you on 4 years but for a poor person that might be a 10 year effort to earn, so don't count in your years. also def consult an attorney regarding this, he can explain the legal ramifications of it and if you feel it is right go ahead with settlement, also keep in mind that all lawers are friends so they know which lawyer is representing the other party and their capabilities (personal experience) based on that they can predict the result of your case, even the judge and the jury greatly affect the case. dont think it is their mistake means that you will win, there is a possibility that if they drag you to court they can end up paying less, it happens and it saves them a lot of legal fees. that is the reason some companies like to settle, again ask you lawer. But loss is a loss. try to accept the fact and plan, do meditation and plan your life around this loss.
[deleted]
> What would you do if you were me?
Murder.
Murder.
I completely understand this view but remembering how overprotective my parents were as a child, to the point of it being annoying, I now understand why.
Impossible to see young kids from large vehicles and people generally do not expect them by themselves near roadways. I can't imagine the grief the parent is going through but the idea of a 2 year old being anywhere near heavy equipment makes me think the negligence is shared.
The company should pay and perhaps there need to be additional security measures taken by public playgrounds but there is no substitute for attentive and always present parenting, especially at that age.
Btw, the OPs story is vague so I've had to fill in the gaps with some assumptions about what happened. I could be wrong if the driver was way out of bounds of expected behavior.
Impossible to see young kids from large vehicles and people generally do not expect them by themselves near roadways. I can't imagine the grief the parent is going through but the idea of a 2 year old being anywhere near heavy equipment makes me think the negligence is shared.
The company should pay and perhaps there need to be additional security measures taken by public playgrounds but there is no substitute for attentive and always present parenting, especially at that age.
Btw, the OPs story is vague so I've had to fill in the gaps with some assumptions about what happened. I could be wrong if the driver was way out of bounds of expected behavior.
I think part of the problem is that these trucks drive during daytime, probably as a cost-cutting measure. We often say cars are too dangerous to pedestrians and should not have colonized cities the way they do. Now imagine a huge truck...
I grew up in Southern EU, and when I moved abroad I was surprised by 1) bins not getting collected daily and 2) collection trucks driving during daytime, which I consider both dangerous and a bit unhygienic.
I grew up in Southern EU, and when I moved abroad I was surprised by 1) bins not getting collected daily and 2) collection trucks driving during daytime, which I consider both dangerous and a bit unhygienic.
For the US, nightly operations would be too disruptive due to noise and the size of coverage area. The square mileage covered in comparison to southern EU communities is massive making the idea of smaller trucks impractical.
I haven't heard much about the danger of garbage trucks to pedestrians in the past, outside of this instance, but perhaps it is a bigger problem than I realized. I will have to look into it more to arrive at a conclusion.
I haven't heard much about the danger of garbage trucks to pedestrians in the past, outside of this instance, but perhaps it is a bigger problem than I realized. I will have to look into it more to arrive at a conclusion.
I'm amazed to see such an honest answer; I wonder how many are thinking this but are too afraid to say it.
> They offered to settle through mediation with a laughable amount of money which I can earn in less than 4 years.
That sounds like you technically have adequate resources to legally throw the book at this situation. IMHO that's objectively the most (only?) important part. The problem is fundamentally solved. It's just a question of logistics.
And on that note, it sounds like the emotional toll this has taken has been paralyzing. This is completely reasonable given the circumstances. Traumatizing events can indeed latch the emotions into a state that make it painful if not impossible to fight back from a position of strength.
There was a thread on HN a little while ago about hiring executive/personal assistants (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29336234), with one comment that particularly leapt out at me (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29341375) as it really inspired an appreciation of the potential of what a good EA could be and do.
In this situation, I think it might be interesting to find a good EA/PA or project manager to coordinate the litigation process and keep you out of the proceedings as much as possible. Their empathetic encouragement would help you with the day-to-day of keeping on keeping on, and their drive and aggression would help to represent your interests in those ways you currently cannot.
This EA/PA/PM would also coordinate the process of getting you adequate psychological support to help patch together what can never fully heal :(. The shorter-term focus would be on getting you functional so the 1-10% of the litigation process you do still have to participate in is not utterly unpalatable, and the medium-/longer-term focus would naturally be on healing and optimizing/aiming for restoration wherever possible.
The bittersweet caveat in this process is that, depending on how things play out, the transformative nature of this person's involvement in your life may mean that you may well retain a long-term professional working relationship for a very long time, or you may want to move on by leaving this person in the past and never talking to them again at some point.
In terms of finding someone good, it could be useful to simply throw everyday busywork at them, the stuff you're already doing, so you have things to bikeshed about and duke out that aren't charged full of emotionally-fraught reference points. After you think you have a culture fit maybe you can relinquish one or two "we usually manage this" things, and if they don't blow those up then you can properly launch. A bit of a project, but it's probably better to take charge by limping along in slow motion rather than hand the keys over immediately only to realize everything's being misrepresented and you're being taken advantage of, which would certainly hurt a lot.
The best part about all of this: it all fits into the scope of the lawsuit, so this person's costs would be able to be recouped as part of the final settlement, possibly independently to the agreed-upon payout.
That sounds like you technically have adequate resources to legally throw the book at this situation. IMHO that's objectively the most (only?) important part. The problem is fundamentally solved. It's just a question of logistics.
And on that note, it sounds like the emotional toll this has taken has been paralyzing. This is completely reasonable given the circumstances. Traumatizing events can indeed latch the emotions into a state that make it painful if not impossible to fight back from a position of strength.
There was a thread on HN a little while ago about hiring executive/personal assistants (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29336234), with one comment that particularly leapt out at me (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29341375) as it really inspired an appreciation of the potential of what a good EA could be and do.
In this situation, I think it might be interesting to find a good EA/PA or project manager to coordinate the litigation process and keep you out of the proceedings as much as possible. Their empathetic encouragement would help you with the day-to-day of keeping on keeping on, and their drive and aggression would help to represent your interests in those ways you currently cannot.
This EA/PA/PM would also coordinate the process of getting you adequate psychological support to help patch together what can never fully heal :(. The shorter-term focus would be on getting you functional so the 1-10% of the litigation process you do still have to participate in is not utterly unpalatable, and the medium-/longer-term focus would naturally be on healing and optimizing/aiming for restoration wherever possible.
The bittersweet caveat in this process is that, depending on how things play out, the transformative nature of this person's involvement in your life may mean that you may well retain a long-term professional working relationship for a very long time, or you may want to move on by leaving this person in the past and never talking to them again at some point.
In terms of finding someone good, it could be useful to simply throw everyday busywork at them, the stuff you're already doing, so you have things to bikeshed about and duke out that aren't charged full of emotionally-fraught reference points. After you think you have a culture fit maybe you can relinquish one or two "we usually manage this" things, and if they don't blow those up then you can properly launch. A bit of a project, but it's probably better to take charge by limping along in slow motion rather than hand the keys over immediately only to realize everything's being misrepresented and you're being taken advantage of, which would certainly hurt a lot.
The best part about all of this: it all fits into the scope of the lawsuit, so this person's costs would be able to be recouped as part of the final settlement, possibly independently to the agreed-upon payout.
It is your responsibility to that child to do everything in your power, and if it's beyond your power go beyond your power, to bring justice upon that company, and the driver too. Every dollar you make them lose will bring dignity to your child. Don't think about the money you'll get in the process, I would spend exactly all of it on a beautiful, lavish, luxurious funeral and give to the orphanages. In fact maybe find a kid just like him and adopt him.
The company will pretend to have lawyers on retainer so it costs them nothing, or that they have insurance, anything to pretend you can never bring them lower for their mortals sins. But those jury trials set precedent, their lawyers run out of arguments, their victim's parents meet in person, the media's plaintiff slander falls flat. Retainer is just an advance every month, their lawyers flat out will not slave away any longer than a clock keeps silent. Insurance for this stuff actually makes it about three times as expensive, it mostly functions as a word to say "we're insured" like "you can't get me" to the plaintiff and "we're not going out of business" to themselves. They are a revenue-based business, they don't actually plant a seed and reap two, meaning make a profit, they rather make ten dollars in revenue than one dollar in profit, so their margins are razor thin. And that's why they're a shitty business that murders children, they don't care about fighting entropy, they only pass it on to others, like your son. Their revenues are predicated on cutting corners, less negligence means less money, they want more money, more negligence. They made money off your son. They have to pay settlements out of profits, no tax breaks, raw. It's not a question of whether your lawsuit will singlehandedly ruin them (and it actually could), rather that you will not fight them alone. If you sue, likely ten others will sue as well. And the American justice system even today just can't shit on the murder of an infant, it hasn't gotten to that point. In general the justice system works, it's just too highly suspicious of hacks and in some cases it has been sabotaged because justice would mean justice, the people making the laws are not sure they want justice if it means justice.
The reason they killed him is because they thought you wouldn't retaliate. They predicted they could get a bunch of prostitutes to tell you "suing them won't bring your son back" and "the litigation will be painful" (on the contrary, it will feel like morphine, you'll have a great time as long as you forfeit the money). Your wimping out now justifies their infanticide. You can't let them predict the future like that.
Fighting them will bring your son back. The justice system is designed to put lost causes, martyrdom, righteousness, above everything else. The litigation is only painful if you let them dangle bribes in front of you, and like they'll try to tell you a really big number at some point, to try to get you to bite and talk to yourself differently, then niggle you down from there. Negotiate, that kind of shit. Make a contract with the court that every last cent of your wins will go to his funeral, and that you are under no obligation to negotiate, you want to complete the trial without aborting it, because a settlement would amount to aborting this trial, aborting justice.
The company will pretend to have lawyers on retainer so it costs them nothing, or that they have insurance, anything to pretend you can never bring them lower for their mortals sins. But those jury trials set precedent, their lawyers run out of arguments, their victim's parents meet in person, the media's plaintiff slander falls flat. Retainer is just an advance every month, their lawyers flat out will not slave away any longer than a clock keeps silent. Insurance for this stuff actually makes it about three times as expensive, it mostly functions as a word to say "we're insured" like "you can't get me" to the plaintiff and "we're not going out of business" to themselves. They are a revenue-based business, they don't actually plant a seed and reap two, meaning make a profit, they rather make ten dollars in revenue than one dollar in profit, so their margins are razor thin. And that's why they're a shitty business that murders children, they don't care about fighting entropy, they only pass it on to others, like your son. Their revenues are predicated on cutting corners, less negligence means less money, they want more money, more negligence. They made money off your son. They have to pay settlements out of profits, no tax breaks, raw. It's not a question of whether your lawsuit will singlehandedly ruin them (and it actually could), rather that you will not fight them alone. If you sue, likely ten others will sue as well. And the American justice system even today just can't shit on the murder of an infant, it hasn't gotten to that point. In general the justice system works, it's just too highly suspicious of hacks and in some cases it has been sabotaged because justice would mean justice, the people making the laws are not sure they want justice if it means justice.
The reason they killed him is because they thought you wouldn't retaliate. They predicted they could get a bunch of prostitutes to tell you "suing them won't bring your son back" and "the litigation will be painful" (on the contrary, it will feel like morphine, you'll have a great time as long as you forfeit the money). Your wimping out now justifies their infanticide. You can't let them predict the future like that.
Fighting them will bring your son back. The justice system is designed to put lost causes, martyrdom, righteousness, above everything else. The litigation is only painful if you let them dangle bribes in front of you, and like they'll try to tell you a really big number at some point, to try to get you to bite and talk to yourself differently, then niggle you down from there. Negotiate, that kind of shit. Make a contract with the court that every last cent of your wins will go to his funeral, and that you are under no obligation to negotiate, you want to complete the trial without aborting it, because a settlement would amount to aborting this trial, aborting justice.
the money received from settlement is taxable from IRS. and the money def doesn't bring your kid back. but according to law there are legal limits on how much you can claim. it might be easy to earn for you on 4 years but for a poor person that might be a 10 year effort to earn, so don't count in your years. also def consult an attorney regarding this, he can explain the legal ramifications of it and if you feel it is right go ahead with settlement, also keep in mind that all lawers are friends so they know which lawer is representing the other party and their capabilities (personal experience) absed on that they can predict the result of your case, even the judge and the jury greatly affect the case. dont think it is their mistake means that you will win, there is a possibility that if they drag you to court they can end up paying less, it happens and it saves them a lot of legal fees. that is the reason some companies like to settle, again ask you lawer. But loss is a loss. try to accept the fact and plan, do meditation and plan your life around this loss.
Don't give tax advice if you don't have any clue what you're talking about.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/lawsuitesawardssettlements.p...
Wrongful Death
Claims for wrongful death usually encompass compensatory damages for physical and mental injury, as well as punitive damages for reckless, malicious, or reprehensible conduct. As a result, both claims may generate settlement amounts. Any amounts determined to be compensatory for the personal physical injuries are excludable from gross income under IRC § 104(a)(2). Any amounts determined to be punitive are not excludable under IRC § 104(a)(2). This is true regardless of whether the punitive amounts are received prior or subsequent to the August 20, 1996, amendment. See O’Gilvie v. United States, 519 U.S. 79 (1996). Caution, however, should be used in applying the general rule that punitive damages received in wrongful death case are taxable. Historically, the courts have looked to the state statute under which the wrongful death claim was litigated to determine whether there could be compensatory and/or punitive damages awarded. This search may reveal a state statute which provides only for punitive damages in wrongful death claims. In these cases, IRC § 104(c) allows the exclusion of punitive damages for amounts received after 1996.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/lawsuitesawardssettlements.p...
Wrongful Death
Claims for wrongful death usually encompass compensatory damages for physical and mental injury, as well as punitive damages for reckless, malicious, or reprehensible conduct. As a result, both claims may generate settlement amounts. Any amounts determined to be compensatory for the personal physical injuries are excludable from gross income under IRC § 104(a)(2). Any amounts determined to be punitive are not excludable under IRC § 104(a)(2). This is true regardless of whether the punitive amounts are received prior or subsequent to the August 20, 1996, amendment. See O’Gilvie v. United States, 519 U.S. 79 (1996). Caution, however, should be used in applying the general rule that punitive damages received in wrongful death case are taxable. Historically, the courts have looked to the state statute under which the wrongful death claim was litigated to determine whether there could be compensatory and/or punitive damages awarded. This search may reveal a state statute which provides only for punitive damages in wrongful death claims. In these cases, IRC § 104(c) allows the exclusion of punitive damages for amounts received after 1996.
I personally would let it go since no matter what the child won't come back, they are in a better place now. Instead of fighting evil corp, it would be much more productive to direct that energy in helping other kids who can be helped more easily. There are literally millions of kids in poor countries who are forced to live pretty harsh lives. You can create impact in their lives as well.
"Let it go", if only it was that easy.
This is not about "fighting evil corp" nor getting involved in humanitarian aid. With this logic we should all stop what we are doing right now and help kids in poor countries or maybe send them to "a better place".
I'd rather give a chance to the community to fairly punish whoever violate rules written to prevent this from happening in the first place, and a lawyer will help.
This is not about "fighting evil corp" nor getting involved in humanitarian aid. With this logic we should all stop what we are doing right now and help kids in poor countries or maybe send them to "a better place".
I'd rather give a chance to the community to fairly punish whoever violate rules written to prevent this from happening in the first place, and a lawyer will help.
I'm writing this in great pain as I was not able to talk about it for a long time. My entire family were devastated. My mom passed away unable to accept the loss. My wife suffers PTSD. I stopped working so that I can go to the cemetery to stay with my son everyday. It's been almost two years.
They see our weakness not strong enough to go through litigation as it tortures us. They offered to settle through mediation with a laughable amount of money which I can earn in less than 4 years. And they want me to shut up so that they may do whatever they want to continue killing children in our neighborhood.
My family want to settle and avoid the additional suffering. I feel so weak. I want to protect them as much as possible but know in my heart I need to fight. I would never forgive me if one day another child gets killed and I could have avoided the tragedy if I choose to fight.
I need help.
What would you do if you were me?