Twitter kicking off a developer API campaign on January 16, 2023(carhenge.club)
carhenge.club
Twitter kicking off a developer API campaign on January 16, 2023
https://carhenge.club/@mattdsteele/109700383808551139
120 comments
Context for those new to the party - this is something that happens again and again. Twitter messing with the API and insta-killing businesses depending on it is a meme at this point.
C.f. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8284398 - my comment from 9 years ago, reminiscing the Twitter API fiasco 10 years ago. Also 8 years ago, as the cycle started anew: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10427530.
EDIT: I still think the quote there perfectly describes the situation, so I'll repost it verbatim yet again.
C.f. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8284398 - my comment from 9 years ago, reminiscing the Twitter API fiasco 10 years ago. Also 8 years ago, as the cycle started anew: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10427530.
EDIT: I still think the quote there perfectly describes the situation, so I'll repost it verbatim yet again.
* Sovereign from Mass Effect on using someone else's technology
"Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays,
our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths
we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution. You
exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it."To be fair, for all the issues around Twitter limiting APIs in the past none of it was this bad. Nor were any changes done with zero warning and communication.
This is categorically different from what happened before.
This is categorically different from what happened before.
The moment Musk acquired Twitter they should've known this would happen. The guy doesn't care about anyone except himself.
Musk might care if this move drives all the influential power users away.
I'm not influential – I almost never tweet and have almost no followers – but I've read Twitter almost every day for the last 15 years. If I can't use Tweetbot, I'm just going to stop using Twitter. The official client and the website are just not usable for me.
Sure, they haven't been getting any ad revenue from me using a third-party client, so they won't miss me, but they never even attempted to provide those ads to the third-party clients.
I'm not influential – I almost never tweet and have almost no followers – but I've read Twitter almost every day for the last 15 years. If I can't use Tweetbot, I'm just going to stop using Twitter. The official client and the website are just not usable for me.
Sure, they haven't been getting any ad revenue from me using a third-party client, so they won't miss me, but they never even attempted to provide those ads to the third-party clients.
> If I can't use Tweetbot, I'm just going to stop using Twitter. The official client and the website are just not usable for me.
This is the situation for me. I haven't been on the platform since this disruption.
This is the situation for me. I haven't been on the platform since this disruption.
To be fair you could argue the same for 3rd parties. Twitter may have grown cos of 3rd party apps but it would die to 3rd party apps too if it can’t make money.
Sure, you could argue that, but...
Without API we go back to web scraping, Selenium, etc. Now guess which method is more expensive for any company (including Twitter)? Web scraping. Its the entire reason an API started to exist in the first place. Besides, if there is authentication involved, the user is logged in, and API calls can be profiled.
So I would say to your statement: "Definitely not." Only on the short term. And those users you lose you might be able to write off as dead weight or leeches but if a couple of big fish will have impact on the power of the network effect. And once that is reduced, the domino effect might take place.
Without API we go back to web scraping, Selenium, etc. Now guess which method is more expensive for any company (including Twitter)? Web scraping. Its the entire reason an API started to exist in the first place. Besides, if there is authentication involved, the user is logged in, and API calls can be profiled.
So I would say to your statement: "Definitely not." Only on the short term. And those users you lose you might be able to write off as dead weight or leeches but if a couple of big fish will have impact on the power of the network effect. And once that is reduced, the domino effect might take place.
[deleted]
This happened before Musk. Twitter decided to 'pivot' to 'enterprise users' to sell 'influencer data' to them. They suddenly shut down their api and changed their api pages to some b2b sales pitch. You couldnt even open an account without giving them excrutiating detail about the size of your enterprise and how big you were (there were poll questions to pass before signing up). When they noticed that they killed their developer base, they started a mailing campaign saying something like 'We love developers' (cringe). But by that time it was done and gone. Again - this happened before Musk.
Thanks. The foaming at the mouth rabble here following this closely apparently expect everyone to be up to date on the movements of Twitter at all times.
> Companies with apps that have been using the API for 15+ years are left in the dark:
This is quite predictable of any service really as I already did predict this [0]. Third-party apps have little to no hope against first party ones even if it is better. [1]
Companies and projects being dependent on someone else's API is inevitable to be shut off, clamped down or rising costs on plans to keep it alive. An uphill battle which the first party can compete against you and shut you down.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25685294
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25684953
This is quite predictable of any service really as I already did predict this [0]. Third-party apps have little to no hope against first party ones even if it is better. [1]
Companies and projects being dependent on someone else's API is inevitable to be shut off, clamped down or rising costs on plans to keep it alive. An uphill battle which the first party can compete against you and shut you down.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25685294
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25684953
What’s the state of third-party clients for GitHub, Reddit, and YouTube?
Reddit is surprisingly still open w/ their API at this point. Some features have been purposefully left out of the APIs accessible to "old" reddit, but many were not.
Apollo is a Reddit client for iOS and the major feature it doesn't have from the official client is "Chat". To be clear, you can still send/receive DMs, but the IM chat is not available. For time sensitive events (/r/place) I believe there was support in the official app, but that makes sense not to expose to 3rd parties.
Most other "features" can be recreated by the client independently as long as they have access to your posts/history.
All of that said, I would not hold my breath that this will still be true in 10 years. The only reason that the 3rd party clients are still supported is because Reddit is able to make enough revenue from those users to justify the expense. If/when that changes, so will API access. To their credit, it is possible to spend Reddit coins and give awards via the current API, but you need to use an official client to top up your account. This at least provides a path for 3rd party client users to generate revenue for Reddit directly.
Apollo is a Reddit client for iOS and the major feature it doesn't have from the official client is "Chat". To be clear, you can still send/receive DMs, but the IM chat is not available. For time sensitive events (/r/place) I believe there was support in the official app, but that makes sense not to expose to 3rd parties.
Most other "features" can be recreated by the client independently as long as they have access to your posts/history.
All of that said, I would not hold my breath that this will still be true in 10 years. The only reason that the 3rd party clients are still supported is because Reddit is able to make enough revenue from those users to justify the expense. If/when that changes, so will API access. To their credit, it is possible to spend Reddit coins and give awards via the current API, but you need to use an official client to top up your account. This at least provides a path for 3rd party client users to generate revenue for Reddit directly.
Apollo is so popular that API revocation would lead to a category 5 shitstorm among power users.
I personally prefer Narwhal on iOS, but if I were forced to use native Reddit app—or really anything resembling ‘new’ Reddit—I’d immediately leave and never come back.
I personally prefer Narwhal on iOS, but if I were forced to use native Reddit app—or really anything resembling ‘new’ Reddit—I’d immediately leave and never come back.
Yepp. Ive been an active Reddit user for around 12 years. I browsed on desktop for a few years and then switched to mobile and never looked back. The communities I engage with just don’t require a full keyboard/mouse setup for me to get value from them.
If Apollo stops working, then I assume the other 3rd party apps would also be disabled so then I’m out. I’m a bit too young to have been active during RSS and and IRC days, but I’m exploring what a modern version of that experience looks like in case Reddit goes kaput.
If Apollo stops working, then I assume the other 3rd party apps would also be disabled so then I’m out. I’m a bit too young to have been active during RSS and and IRC days, but I’m exploring what a modern version of that experience looks like in case Reddit goes kaput.
I continue to completely disbelieve that Reddit is as popular as it is, whilst it is an apparently known fact it is completely unusable on mobile without a third party client.
I think the users that find the reddit app "unusable" are generally tech-literate power users. Most normies I've met who use Reddit don't mind using the default app (until they are exposed to a 3rd party client anyway!)
Contrary to the OP's claims AFAICT most third-party clients/apps for successful services are usually well supported.
A much easier way for a first party to kill third parties that may be hurting their businesses is buying them out and/or incorporating their functionality into the first party apps.
If users are choosing third party apps it's usually because (a) they are breaking some pretty obvious rules, like copyright and/or not displaying ads, in which case they will be in a constant struggle to survive, (b) they are providing functionality the first party does not or cannot provide, in which case it's still beneficial for the first party since the third party app is helping them keep the users.
A much easier way for a first party to kill third parties that may be hurting their businesses is buying them out and/or incorporating their functionality into the first party apps.
If users are choosing third party apps it's usually because (a) they are breaking some pretty obvious rules, like copyright and/or not displaying ads, in which case they will be in a constant struggle to survive, (b) they are providing functionality the first party does not or cannot provide, in which case it's still beneficial for the first party since the third party app is helping them keep the users.
I think it's fair to say Git as an option for accessing GitHub is likely to stick around.
Baconreader still works for Reddit.
Youtube is a lot more adversarial because of all the copyright issues, but there's NewPipe, and yt-dlp as well as all the authorized third party clients like non-Android TVs.
Youtube is a lot more adversarial because of all the copyright issues, but there's NewPipe, and yt-dlp as well as all the authorized third party clients like non-Android TVs.
Reddit recently started using a nonstandard Markdown implentation so that escaped links are broken via the API (and old.reddit.com).
How many is "many"? Looks like the only affected apps were those which provided a different means to access Twitter without ads. This feels like a storm in a teacup with the majority of developers on the API being unaffected.
> Looks like the only affected apps were those which provided a different means to access Twitter without ads.
I'd be happy to pay some sort of subscription to the API in order to keep using the third party client. Not sure why this isn't a thing. I'd much rather pay a fe bucks per month for API access than "Twitter Blue" or whatever.
As for the apps: while it's an asshat move, I'd be really careful about building anything commercial on top of anyone else's project without any guarantees about the service even existing tomorrow.
I'd be happy to pay some sort of subscription to the API in order to keep using the third party client. Not sure why this isn't a thing. I'd much rather pay a fe bucks per month for API access than "Twitter Blue" or whatever.
As for the apps: while it's an asshat move, I'd be really careful about building anything commercial on top of anyone else's project without any guarantees about the service even existing tomorrow.
It's not actually possible to serve twitter ads from an API client.
There are at least 28 known apps that were banned without any reason or explanation.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1O27Co27g2fWRon7g...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1O27Co27g2fWRon7g...
While I do agree that Twitter was pretty exceptional in allowing these clients to exist, as usual it’s about just doing it silently and not giving any rationale. At least have the courage to admit what you’ve done!
> the only affected apps were those which provided a different means to access Twitter without ads
Isn't that the whole purpose of an API to send and retrieve content without ads - or any other presentation-layer addition?
Isn't that the whole purpose of an API to send and retrieve content without ads - or any other presentation-layer addition?
It's definitely the purpose of the Twitter API because it does not serve ads when you fetch the timeline.
While that's clearly the right choice for professional social media manager type apps which might pay some monthly fee, it's very strange that in so many years they've never created two tiers of API feeds, with an ad-filled one for normal third party apps.
It affected the most popular apps, and it was done without any warning or even communication after the fact. Storm in a teacup? It shows what anybody using the API will have to put up with going forward.
Shameless plug: I created a browser extension to help transition to Mastodon[0]. If you don't yet feel like you can leave twitter.com, but want to explore alternatives it's a great way to get started. Essentially it injects Mastodon posts into your Twitter timeline, so you can retain your existing Twitter following while getting exposed to Mastodon.
[0] - https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mastodon-chirper/l...
[0] - https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mastodon-chirper/l...
I would think the other way around - moving to Mastodon and still being able to keep up with a select few from Twitter would be excellent. Could even allow replying to tweets and stuff if a browser extension.
I wonder if there could be a way to handle messages from other systems as a first class message in mastodon while saying on twitter "a discussion about this tweet is happening on Mastodon: _link_".
I wonder if there could be a way to handle messages from other systems as a first class message in mastodon while saying on twitter "a discussion about this tweet is happening on Mastodon: _link_".
Now is the perfect time to check back in with your developer account to see if you haven't been banned without warning.
Its pretty amazing to make Google seem like a beacon of stability, but Twitter managed to do it. I feel for all the developers scrambling to make a mastodon app now in an effort to restart or secure their clients, and wish them luck.
Its pretty amazing to make Google seem like a beacon of stability, but Twitter managed to do it. I feel for all the developers scrambling to make a mastodon app now in an effort to restart or secure their clients, and wish them luck.
> I feel for all the developers scrambling to make a mastodon app now in an effort to restart or secure their clients
Is anyone doing that? It would be incredibly foolish to believe that people that paid for a Twitter client would suddenly be fine with a paying for a Mastodon client.
Is anyone doing that? It would be incredibly foolish to believe that people that paid for a Twitter client would suddenly be fine with a paying for a Mastodon client.
I think you would be surprised. The folks who will pay for a premium experience by using a 3rd party app are likely willing to do the same on another platform.
Might be a hard sell for me since less than 10% of the accounts that I follow on Twitter have any kind of Mastodon presence, and toot per tweet volume is probably considerably less than 10%.
I can get a lot more value from a good Twitter client than I can from a good Mastodon client.
I can get a lot more value from a good Twitter client than I can from a good Mastodon client.
That is true for now, but in increase in mastodon usage is really mind blowing.
It is hard to believe such a big social network to migrate overnight, but it has happened before with digg moving to reddit.
It is hard to believe such a big social network to migrate overnight, but it has happened before with digg moving to reddit.
On the other hand, I left twitter quite a while ago and I was a tweetbot user. I’ll be purchasing Ivory the day it’s available since I’m really waiting for a mastodon client that offers the tweetbot experience.
I think you are missing where a large part of the value from those alternative clients come from beside features and layout: no ads or trash recommendations.
As far as I know, neither of those are an issue on Mastodon and therefore the value of 3rd party clients isn't there.
As far as I know, neither of those are an issue on Mastodon and therefore the value of 3rd party clients isn't there.
For me it’s about paying for a slightly smoother UX and for supporting the growth of the Mastodon ecosystem. I hope that good 3rd party apps will eventually also ease the onboarding of less techie audiences.
I hate subs, but I might make an exception here.
I hate subs, but I might make an exception here.
The Tweetbot people have one coming out any day now. Given the alarming speed at which the TestFlight slots go (I got in on my third attempt, totally by chance; all slots were gone by a minute after) there appears to be an audience.
Ivory from the makers of Tweetbot. The project was started before the whole Twitter API fiasco started, but apparently they've had to accelerate the development of it now.
More details: https://tapbots.social/@ivory/109683219720510229
Well it would make sense. If you have a bunch of customers who are clearly willing to pay for this kind of application, have a bit of brand loyalty and who may now have a bit of a sour taste in their mouth at being suddenly shut out of Twitter then that's definitely an opportunity worth exploring if you already have a team with expertise in building this kind of app (and quite possibly some tech that can be re-used)
The Mastodon account for Ivory, the Mastodon client from the developers of Tweetbot, has 32,000 followers already and it's still in closed alpha.
I, for one, am waiting for Ivory to come out of Beta to do just that.
yeah, most of them are doing it
The account I use for my @dcskycam Twitter bot has been locked a few times for posting sunset videos flagged as inappropriate and the account itself was “permanently suspended for repeated violations” only to be un-suspended almost immediately.
This is just a hobby project for me but if it was revenue generating I’d be looking for other platforms rather than starting new projects on such an unstable platform!
This is just a hobby project for me but if it was revenue generating I’d be looking for other platforms rather than starting new projects on such an unstable platform!
Ad scheduled months ago by someone who has since been laid off? Internal ads are presumably "free" to Twitter.
On the other hand, it's kind of embarrassing when you don't have your external communication sorted out.
Musk has very intentionally killed the "external communication" teams at both Tesla and Twitter. This isn't embarrassing, it's inherent to choices he makes when running companies.
> This isn't embarrassing, it's inherent to choices he makes when running companies.
Something can be both. A choice by the company, and also embarrassing.
I don't even understand why you think these might exclude each other mutually.
Something can be both. A choice by the company, and also embarrassing.
I don't even understand why you think these might exclude each other mutually.
Regardless of whether you have a PR team or not, how is making a fool out of yourself anything but embarrassing?
Kicking off an API developer campaign mere days after silently killing API access for its biggest users is a VERY bad look. Are you saying that Musk is intentionally trying to make Twitter look like the laughing stock of the tech industry?
Kicking off an API developer campaign mere days after silently killing API access for its biggest users is a VERY bad look. Are you saying that Musk is intentionally trying to make Twitter look like the laughing stock of the tech industry?
I think he’s definitely trying to look like a cutthroat, willing to strip down the company to its essentials and reintroduce a sort of startup culture. The fact that his efforts have also made Twitter and himself a bit of a laughing stock are an unfortunate side effect to how poorly and clumsily he's executed this plan.
Note: I used to say that even though I don't particularly love some of the changes Musk made, I hoped it would turn out ok and that Twitter would survive somehow. But I accidentally cured myself of my Twitter habit (waited a couple of days to see if Tweetbot would regain API access again, never restarted) so I’m just kinda indifferent to it now.
Note: I used to say that even though I don't particularly love some of the changes Musk made, I hoped it would turn out ok and that Twitter would survive somehow. But I accidentally cured myself of my Twitter habit (waited a couple of days to see if Tweetbot would regain API access again, never restarted) so I’m just kinda indifferent to it now.
Intentional poor decisions can be embarrassing.
My guess is this is where they announce new applications for 3rd party clients that need to pay fees and show ads
Perhaps, but if they had a plan to monetize 3rd party clients, then the first people they'd want to sign up would be existing clients with developed products and an install base. Instead it seems they just silently killed them.
That sounds perfectly reasonable to be honest.
Perfectly reasonable would be telling their existing API users “we will revoke your access to the APIs you are using and will introduce a new program where you have to pay a bit more to use them” with some kind of notice period that overlapped with the introduction of the new program.
What they did was suddenly yank access for a handful of apps then go silent for four days, before sending an email out to API users for (maybe?) a new program which we can’t be 100% sure was part of the plan or just an old scheduled mailer by a now-fired person. We are left guessing because nobody really knows what’s going on at Twitter any more.
What they did was suddenly yank access for a handful of apps then go silent for four days, before sending an email out to API users for (maybe?) a new program which we can’t be 100% sure was part of the plan or just an old scheduled mailer by a now-fired person. We are left guessing because nobody really knows what’s going on at Twitter any more.
That's not the topic at hand.
[deleted]
How is their discontinuation without warning or communication of the old api not relevant to the topic of the new one?
Because the comment thread is about the monetization of the API, not how Twitter communicates with 3rd party developers.
The shutdown of the previous API is very relevant to monetization.
If you were subscribed to a free service and they released a paid version, would your choice of paying be affected by the fact that your free account was removed without warning?
What if you had built a business on the free account; would the sudden shutdown of your business affect your decision to build a new project on top of the paid product?
Monetization requires users trusting you enough to pay, eroding lack of trust as you reveal your paid product is a mountain sized red flag.
If you were subscribed to a free service and they released a paid version, would your choice of paying be affected by the fact that your free account was removed without warning?
What if you had built a business on the free account; would the sudden shutdown of your business affect your decision to build a new project on top of the paid product?
Monetization requires users trusting you enough to pay, eroding lack of trust as you reveal your paid product is a mountain sized red flag.
It kinda is - that's the reason OP labelled it as "unbridled audacity".
A few $/month for each user for API access or perhaps free for verified/blue users would make sense.
It should be $/month of the third party app developer or a tiered plan where you choose depending on the number of users using it.
An easy win-win-win-win for Twitter, partners, users and developers.
An easy win-win-win-win for Twitter, partners, users and developers.
So if I create a free Twitter client that has 10000 users, I will have to pay Elon 80000 Dollars every month? Seems a worthwhile effort ;-)
I don't think Twitter cares about free Twitter clients, or even commercial ones.
It's always amazed me that TweetDeck has existed for so long, but now if users aren't being monetized by ads or paying for (Blue) features in the Twitter app I can see them not being welcome on Musks Twitter.
Twitter developer relations sucked under Dorsey and continue to be perfectly awful under Musk.
Even the developer signup process is broken. You fill in the required form, get an email that they need more details about the intended use (despite the fact they already ask about that in the form), and then nobody reads your follow-up emails
Even the developer signup process is broken. You fill in the required form, get an email that they need more details about the intended use (despite the fact they already ask about that in the form), and then nobody reads your follow-up emails
I have to say, this is the first news I've heard about Twitter in weeks, and of course, it's an idiotic story, but man, it's been refreshing to have had a break from Musk and Twitter.
I’m sorry, I’m too dumb. What’s a “developer API campaign”? How does it get kicked off? What does it get kicked off from?
They just mean a marketing campaign aimed at developers. It looks like the person who made the Mastodon post had a Twitter developer account, and Twitter sent them an email saying, "Hey, developer! Now seems like a great time to build some stuff with the Twitter API!"
I'm assuming this was something designed ages ago and someone forgot to turn it off, but the hashtag they chose for the background of the email-marketing image – #whatshappening – is on point, as I'm sure that's what every developer who uses the Twitter API has been saying.
On the other hand, I see the developer site is back up. If this is indeed a new marketing campaign, it's a brash move.
I'm assuming this was something designed ages ago and someone forgot to turn it off, but the hashtag they chose for the background of the email-marketing image – #whatshappening – is on point, as I'm sure that's what every developer who uses the Twitter API has been saying.
On the other hand, I see the developer site is back up. If this is indeed a new marketing campaign, it's a brash move.
[deleted]
What did you find confusing about the screenshot?
Everything. I’m forgetting my English. I understand now that “kicked off” means they’re starting something, not banning something.
As if Twitter was ever (even b4 Musk) friendly to 3d party clients...
PS Cawbird still works
PS Cawbird still works
The fact that people pay for thirdparty apps when the official app is free should hint just how bad the official app is.
Is the Twitter team back to the office? I'd imagine the API being down is something you'd casually mention in the queue to the coffee machine. It should have trickled down to the marketing department...
What marketing department? Musk laid off tons of people, are you sure they still have one?
What office? Haven’t they stopped paying rent on the lot?
They've already broken their API so many times (even before Musk came) that any developer who still wastes their time building something against their pile of crap is either desperate or fool.
Or a someone who operates in the real world and understands that projects require maintenance to stay relevant in a changing world.
Tried to accept the Developer T&C's and it complained I didnt have a verified phone number on account. Added UK mobile phone number to account and refused to send SMS to verify it.
What's the issue here, an important American day? Genuinely ignorant of what's the big concern about launching a campaign on this date.
Yeah, but no - even if you ignore anything else[1] current twitter treats developers with disrespect and any API you used could be turned off at a whim (even more so than repeat offenders Google).
[1] It's also impossible to ignore everything else; why would I want to help a service run by a middle aged billionaire edge-lord ?
[1] It's also impossible to ignore everything else; why would I want to help a service run by a middle aged billionaire edge-lord ?
Twitter 's API was always terrible to third part apps. Snarky comments about Elon aside, it s gonna be great if they are going to be serious about opening up and keeping it up this time.
[deleted]
twitter seems determined to further screw up its API potential
Slighted(2)
why are all these people so up in arms about this?
I believe because it shows how much we depend on good behavior of Big Tech (or Big anything really) and are at their mercy. I think most people do generally have the expectation of big corps leadership behaving somewhat decently most of the times, at least publicly, and not being totally disrespectful since that harms their reputation. Musk goes against that expectation, quite spectacularly.
This is changing the game somewhat, people also are up in arms about google shutting down useful services even when they give many months notice - this is far, far worse.
This is changing the game somewhat, people also are up in arms about google shutting down useful services even when they give many months notice - this is far, far worse.
If you (plan to) shut down an API, it's kinda nice if you communicate this beforehand rather than just pulling the plug and keeping everyone in the dark.
Might try directing this question to the user's who paid for Tweetbot's yearly plan and won't be able to use it anymore.
I'm one of those Tweetbot users. If I'm honest its like ~1 USD a month (29 CZK), so for me at least the money isn't really a huge deal. It was just a bit confusing not knowing wtf was happening and whether it'd be reversed (clearly now we know it won't be)
because twitter just blocked the API keys to the most popular third party apps, without any messaging whatsoever.
https://blog.iconfactory.com/2023/01/state-of-the-twitterver...