Magic Sand: augmented reality sandbox/playground(github.com)
github.com
Magic Sand: augmented reality sandbox/playground
https://github.com/thomwolf/Magic-Sand
55 comments
I used to write agent-based simulations for science education, and one of the main libraries was AgentScript, which I believe is now SimTable [1]. They had developed their own sand table with an agent-based model running on top, and used it to create wildfire models to help plan and train firefighters. I think they also would do modeling of defense scenarios. It was pretty interesting stuff.
1. https://www.simtable.com
1. https://www.simtable.com
This looks like it'd be great for D&D
I'm sorry, I haven't heard of sand tables before; the agent-based sim concept with lots of people standing around a projector is cool; but is there something better about it being projected on a lumpy surface?
It's a good question, and I honestly think that SimTable has struggled with that.
From a playing perspective, or educational perspective, the sand is great. What happens with wildfires if we make the mountain this big? What happens to the water table if erosion cuts a valley through here? The immediate feedback that you can get by just shaping the landscape differently with your hands is really cool.
From a wildfire training perspective, or other disaster management, it's different because you're dealing with an existing landscape. I've seen them start by projecting a map, then forming the sand with their hands to match the map, and then starting the simulation. But at that point is the 3D landscape needed? You could also project onto a flat table.
I guess the reason is that it helps the fire chiefs or whoever really envision the landscape. "Ah, yes, this is Devil's Pass, I see how the wind is going to blow right through there and blow the fire that way. What if we cut a fire lane here? Ok, that slows it down."
But it could also be a cool technology being used as a solution to a non-problem.
From a playing perspective, or educational perspective, the sand is great. What happens with wildfires if we make the mountain this big? What happens to the water table if erosion cuts a valley through here? The immediate feedback that you can get by just shaping the landscape differently with your hands is really cool.
From a wildfire training perspective, or other disaster management, it's different because you're dealing with an existing landscape. I've seen them start by projecting a map, then forming the sand with their hands to match the map, and then starting the simulation. But at that point is the 3D landscape needed? You could also project onto a flat table.
I guess the reason is that it helps the fire chiefs or whoever really envision the landscape. "Ah, yes, this is Devil's Pass, I see how the wind is going to blow right through there and blow the fire that way. What if we cut a fire lane here? Ok, that slows it down."
But it could also be a cool technology being used as a solution to a non-problem.
> I guess the reason is that it helps the fire chiefs or whoever really envision the landscape. "Ah, yes, this is Devil's Pass, I see how the wind is going to blow right through there and blow the fire that way. What if we cut a fire lane here? Ok, that slows it down."
Yeah, if you're familiar with topographical maps (the way any decent hiker or fire chief would be), you really don't need the physical 3d layout to envision the landscape.
Yeah, if you're familiar with topographical maps (the way any decent hiker or fire chief would be), you really don't need the physical 3d layout to envision the landscape.
ah yeah, I was just thinking about that firefighter demo and couldn't understand how the topography was correlated with the surface. (It seems like it'd be super cool if you could scoop out lakes and stuff... I've never seen or played with something like that.)
The tactile aspect of the sand is neat. I can see it as a good learning tool as you described for thinking about wind patterns and road cuts.
The tactile aspect of the sand is neat. I can see it as a good learning tool as you described for thinking about wind patterns and road cuts.
Funny: I have one prototype of it in my office at my university (but the sand has been removed) :-) Its code is from someone else I think...
Ah, but mine does an hydrological simulation on top of it (water flows in valleys). Besides that, these are super cool to show kids A.R.
Ah, but mine does an hydrological simulation on top of it (water flows in valleys). Besides that, these are super cool to show kids A.R.
A+ hack. Holodecks will be par for the course in the coming Starfleet Academy ;)
The UC Davis AR Sandbox is awesome, happy to see there is still work on keeping the idea alive. I've built one for my school quite some time ago and honestly it's just so cool playing with it I almost wish I had one for myself.
This one specifically seems so much more polished than the UC Davis research project with a dashboard for configuration such as color maps, contour lines, sea level, etc. which had to be changed in config files previously. The calibration also seems automated? I distinctly remember the calibration steps to be a major pain.
Also I'm really thankful for the Sandbox project since it was what first got me into using Linux as my main operation system, since I was the only one in the whole place which any idea what a "Linux" or a "package manager" was.
The only part of this project that still gets me a bit mad is the need for the Kinect, it's been getting harder to find X360 versions of these recently and specially the cable to connect it to a computer (in case of using the XONE version). I really wish there was some kind of hardware alternative to it.
This one specifically seems so much more polished than the UC Davis research project with a dashboard for configuration such as color maps, contour lines, sea level, etc. which had to be changed in config files previously. The calibration also seems automated? I distinctly remember the calibration steps to be a major pain.
Also I'm really thankful for the Sandbox project since it was what first got me into using Linux as my main operation system, since I was the only one in the whole place which any idea what a "Linux" or a "package manager" was.
The only part of this project that still gets me a bit mad is the need for the Kinect, it's been getting harder to find X360 versions of these recently and specially the cable to connect it to a computer (in case of using the XONE version). I really wish there was some kind of hardware alternative to it.
My team and I actually made one of these a few years back.
Here is what it looks like with video: https://share.icloud.com/photos/046QwitWWGHRx-qSNHgJWsnNg
From memory, things worked best with magic sand, which was regular sand + mineral oil + corn starch, as it helped the sand hold shape.
Here is what it looks like with video: https://share.icloud.com/photos/046QwitWWGHRx-qSNHgJWsnNg
From memory, things worked best with magic sand, which was regular sand + mineral oil + corn starch, as it helped the sand hold shape.
I've made one of these as well using the 'original' setup. We used rags and blocks as I figured a sandbox in the living room matched with two small kids would have been a relative nightmare.
Holding your hand over spots, this making it rain, and having the water "pool" and run as it would is absolutely beyond fun. Move the mountains, and downward it continues to flow.
With a budget projector ($82!), A Kinect (I forget version), and an old graphics card it worked pretty flawless after setup -- probably the hardest part was aligning the sensor with the projector and getting it all actually calibrated -- the next one we build I'll def try this version and note the differences. Calibration with the other method used a cdrom as it's target that you placed around, a bit fiddly.
Super super cool.
Holding your hand over spots, this making it rain, and having the water "pool" and run as it would is absolutely beyond fun. Move the mountains, and downward it continues to flow.
With a budget projector ($82!), A Kinect (I forget version), and an old graphics card it worked pretty flawless after setup -- probably the hardest part was aligning the sensor with the projector and getting it all actually calibrated -- the next one we build I'll def try this version and note the differences. Calibration with the other method used a cdrom as it's target that you placed around, a bit fiddly.
Super super cool.
Worth noting the Andrew Millison permaculture videos that make use of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Trz6NvsUQQ
I'm always a bit pleasantly surprised when following technical terms with a metaphorical meaning (an AR sandboxed playground) and it turns out to be they're used in the literal sense - it is an AR box, filled with sand!
Or a Head Mounted Display that consists of human heads mounted on poles.
I’m shocked no one has commercialized this yet.
I’d bet almost Every parent would buy one. And a lot of adults.
I’d bet almost Every parent would buy one. And a lot of adults.
I made one in the past, we’re often asked by schools to make one for them. The limiting factor is the Xbox Kinnects, and needing to solder on a regular USB connector.
Beyond hardware, the other issue is that it is quite an expensive investment for something that lacks direct curriculum/syllabus alignment.
Beyond hardware, the other issue is that it is quite an expensive investment for something that lacks direct curriculum/syllabus alignment.
I will gladly take that bet. You sound certain, shall we make it 1000:1?
I'm still constantly amazed by the absolute certainty expressed in HN comments, even with completely absurd positions. Left brain mania.
I'm still constantly amazed by the absolute certainty expressed in HN comments, even with completely absurd positions. Left brain mania.
As a parent of young children--absolutely not, sand in the house is a disaster.
Our local children's museum has one. It's very cool. I have no desire to own one.
Our local children's museum has one. It's very cool. I have no desire to own one.
I got to play around with one of these during my stint as a solder monkey for the Tangible Media Group at the MIT Media Lab back in the early 00s. Lots of fun, worth trying out. It was, of course, way more expensive than a setup in the early 20s is.
EDIT: Found it: https://tangible.media.mit.edu/project/sandscape
EDIT: Found it: https://tangible.media.mit.edu/project/sandscape
Some people I know made an art exhibit that was the hippie version of a theme park exhibition and it had one of these in it. It was a lot of fun.
Meow wolf?
The Museum of Science and Technology in Syracuse, NY has one of these - despite moving out of Upstate NY a while ago and living in other cities with much bigger, higher budget science museums, it's still one of the most memorable and interesting exhibits I've ever seen at one.
They also had another interesting project using a kinect-enabled display, where you could stand in front of a screen showing a Jurassic scene and throw dodgeballs at velociraptors. The original plan was actually to sync the experience to another display in a museum in Boston, so you'd be playing raptor dodgeball with the other exhibit's patrons over state lines - unfortunately, the other museum never set their half up.
I think that speaks to the question commenters are raising here about why these aren't more common or commercially available. A lot of cool stuff like this is tied to the Kinect and comes with non-trivial setup and maintenance cost.
They also had another interesting project using a kinect-enabled display, where you could stand in front of a screen showing a Jurassic scene and throw dodgeballs at velociraptors. The original plan was actually to sync the experience to another display in a museum in Boston, so you'd be playing raptor dodgeball with the other exhibit's patrons over state lines - unfortunately, the other museum never set their half up.
I think that speaks to the question commenters are raising here about why these aren't more common or commercially available. A lot of cool stuff like this is tied to the Kinect and comes with non-trivial setup and maintenance cost.
Fantastic project. In a way, it makes me think of a game I love called From Dust: https://store.steampowered.com/app/33460/From_Dust/
Cool project, but I don't want kids playing with sand inside.. something like this that uses clay or even Legos would be cool. It couldn't be exactly the same, I understand, since the shadows would ruin the immersion. A whole room version would be cool too that takes into account toys and clothes. Bonus points if it can help encourage tidying up as part of play.
> Bonus points if it can help encourage tidying up as part of play.
This one made my chuckle, nicely played dad.
This one made my chuckle, nicely played dad.
That _is_ a very interesting idea. If every toy had a "home," then it could be a game; every object not in an assigned place would turn red, and you have to find its home.
The Montessori educational method establishes a "positioning schema" which very much is used to make tidying an engaging play activity.
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> I don't want kids playing with sand inside
The physical "magic sand" stuff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrophobic_sand) doesn't make a big mess. Great toy for kids.
The physical "magic sand" stuff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrophobic_sand) doesn't make a big mess. Great toy for kids.
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Actual magic/kinetic/hydrophobic sand (what this is intended to be used with, as you can shape it in shapes other than "pile") is pretty self contained, make a reasonably tall tub to play in (maybe 3~5 times as tall as the "sea level") and you should be fine, just make a rule of "no throwing sand meteors" and you should be fine, neatness-wise.
If you put any sort of fine-particles in a inside environment without having a fully enclosed box and anti-containment compartment with double-doors, you are guaranteed to end up with some of those particles reaching every single part of the house.
Once we took apart a confetti+glitter "gun/bomb" on the kitchen counter with strict measures of washing your hand after touching the confetti, don't let it leave the counter and so on, and we still find traces of it in other parts of the house sometimes. Never again.
Once we took apart a confetti+glitter "gun/bomb" on the kitchen counter with strict measures of washing your hand after touching the confetti, don't let it leave the counter and so on, and we still find traces of it in other parts of the house sometimes. Never again.
Well, it's sand anyways. Glitter is annoying because it's highly visible so you're constantly reminded of it, but sand is just like any sort of dust. It's also a bunch of very thin and tiny sheets, so it adheres to surfaces formidably.
Of course, you do your own "annoyance assessment", but a non-perishable, hydrophobic, heavy and visually unremarkable powder has a pretty good value in terms of unit of fun per unit of annoying in my book. Tidier than giving a kid a cookie.
Of course, you do your own "annoyance assessment", but a non-perishable, hydrophobic, heavy and visually unremarkable powder has a pretty good value in terms of unit of fun per unit of annoying in my book. Tidier than giving a kid a cookie.
I have a number of similar AR ideas like this, but thinking about cobbling together an optically aligned projector/depth sensor/camera is the hurdle that I need to get over first. Plus it would be a messy setup to actually deploy.
I'd really love to see some company develop a single unit that had maybe 5000-10000 lumens in a box with an HD camera.
I'd really love to see some company develop a single unit that had maybe 5000-10000 lumens in a box with an HD camera.
An iPhone with a LiDAR sensor (any of the Pro/Pro Max models IIRC) might be good enough for half of that equation.
I wonder if this could be redone for mobile phones with multiple cameras an/or depth sensors to replace the Kinect?
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Remember taking kids to an experience to try this out and they loved it. Very tempted to try to put this together.
https://youtu.be/YLYO0YhY83w
https://youtu.be/YLYO0YhY83w
Kind of a useless comment, but you absolutely should. You'll have no regrets, and probably play with it more than they will!
I would love to see somebody plug SimCity into this!
https://github.com/SimHacker/micropolis
https://github.com/SimHacker/micropolis
I’ve seen this in use a couple of times, it’s surprisingly fun to play with and my kids love it. I had no idea it was an open source project.
They have one of these at KidCity in Honolulu. My daughter absolutely loves it. Didn't know it was an open source project. Very cool!
I saw one of these at the V&A when they did a digital showcase. Cannot describe how joyful it is to play with.
I recall seeing a demo of a similar setup at Burning Man about 5-6 years ago. Same people?
You're thinking of the one in Plunderground's Museum. I know the guy who made it and this isn't his.
You can see theirs in this 2018 tour of Plunderground Museum video around the 3:15 mark...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-23-hruLqNI
Very much a Tripper Trap :)
You can see theirs in this 2018 tour of Plunderground Museum video around the 3:15 mark...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-23-hruLqNI
Very much a Tripper Trap :)
I helped set one of these up at the NM Bureau of Geology in 2015. Everybody loved it.
This link crashes my mobile Firefox.
checked it on Chrome and nothing obvious as a cause.
checked it on Chrome and nothing obvious as a cause.