Microsoft deleted the public support forums for SwiftKey(mastodon.social)
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Microsoft deleted the public support forums for SwiftKey
https://mastodon.social/@mcc/110209163620520535
337 comments
Its funny that Microsoft didn't care to update their SwiftKey keyboard for new iOS versions for years and let it become a broken mess, and then when they finally release an update it's because of a fucking Bing button. And since the update also actually fixes a lot of issues it looks like they've had it ready for a while and just been just sitting on it and letting their app rot. Working there must be total chaos.
> and then when they finally release an update it's because of a fucking Bing button
To be honest and as a heavy user of SwiftKey on iOS, they updated the app and released a fix before all the AI hype in the last couple of months. They might have this in mind as part of their vision from that point, but it is not to say that
To be honest and as a heavy user of SwiftKey on iOS, they updated the app and released a fix before all the AI hype in the last couple of months. They might have this in mind as part of their vision from that point, but it is not to say that
Wait, you were still using it? I used it for years and years but then they announced they killed it[1] last Fall and I switched to something I like a lot less.
Is SwiftKey back? Can I start using it again? Will they just yank it again in three months when people get bored of the AI gimmick?
I'm confused.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/09/microsoft-will-end-s...
Can we please, as an industry, stop selling good things to big companies just so they can smother them with a pillow?
Is SwiftKey back? Can I start using it again? Will they just yank it again in three months when people get bored of the AI gimmick?
I'm confused.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/09/microsoft-will-end-s...
Can we please, as an industry, stop selling good things to big companies just so they can smother them with a pillow?
It never really left. It got removed from the app store briefly but they reversed that decesion pretty quickly afterwards. I've also never had any issues with it on iOS so I'm curious why OP thinks it's a broken mess.
Only broken mess I'm experiencing seems to do with iOS integration of 3rd party keyboards. I think the apps are supposed to remember which keyboard you want to use with them, but the SwiftKey regularly persists even in apps in which I didn't switch to it.
I wish I didn't have to use it, but until Apple rolls out swipe and autocorrect support to my native language, I'll have to suffer.
For me SwiftKey is far superior to either native Apple keyboard or Gboard. Native keyboard has insane issues with autocorrect with multiple languages, to the point where it's not usable for me. My native (Polish) language also has fairly bad dictionaries. It's really bad overall.
Gboard is much better in that, but it has a lot of minor bugs that annoy me constantly and they refuse to fix them. Gboard will randomly show up with weird scaling issues until you hide and reopen keyboard, sometimes it will just randomly crash and restart while typing, often has layouting issues when switching orientation. Google clearly just doesn't care enough to support it.
SwiftKey fixed most of those annoyances for me. I dropped it when they said they won't support it anymore but I'm actually happy they reversed that decision and I just installed it again.
Gboard is much better in that, but it has a lot of minor bugs that annoy me constantly and they refuse to fix them. Gboard will randomly show up with weird scaling issues until you hide and reopen keyboard, sometimes it will just randomly crash and restart while typing, often has layouting issues when switching orientation. Google clearly just doesn't care enough to support it.
SwiftKey fixed most of those annoyances for me. I dropped it when they said they won't support it anymore but I'm actually happy they reversed that decision and I just installed it again.
Exactly. And kudos to them for not removing the Swiftkey either during that time, even if they were not updating it anymore. It was a nice, functional piece of software albeit with some bugs.
Worth noting that they did announce they were discontinuing it and removed it from the app store in October, then brought it back quickly after.
My $10 says the cause for the decision to renew work on iOS SwiftKey wasn't "customer feedback", but Bing/LLM part of Microsoft realizing that their bean counters have just shut down the only system-wide text-based touchpoint Microsoft ever had on iOS, just as they want to start integrating Bing/LLM everywhere.
That should be pretty obvious. ChatGPT is Microsoft's new golden child. Any potential interface for it will be getting plenty of attention and SwiftKey will suddenly be included in tons of management spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations.
The Bing->Chat buttons just open the Bing app currently. I'm curious if they will directly integrate it.
The Bing->Chat buttons just open the Bing app currently. I'm curious if they will directly integrate it.
yeah LLM for swiftkey is kind of obvious
The author later speculates on why:
> I actually was thinking along the lines of "interesting coincidence" but now I actually believe it is not a coincidence and they really did do this just to prevent people discussing welding Bing and "AI" into the FUCKING KEYBOARD
> I actually was thinking along the lines of "interesting coincidence" but now I actually believe it is not a coincidence and they really did do this just to prevent people discussing welding Bing and "AI" into the FUCKING KEYBOARD
Alternative theory - When the iOS application was discontinued and they had removed it from the app store in October, they redirected their support site to just the android version FAQ's and have forgotten to switch it back.
Thus iOS support is just at:
https://support.swiftkey.com/hc/en-us/categories/200371942-i...
As a further note, Microsoft support is centralised at support.microsoft.com and it appears that they are currently adding all these help topics there too:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/swiftkey
IMO this falls into "don't attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
Thus iOS support is just at:
https://support.swiftkey.com/hc/en-us/categories/200371942-i...
As a further note, Microsoft support is centralised at support.microsoft.com and it appears that they are currently adding all these help topics there too:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/swiftkey
IMO this falls into "don't attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
Do either of those links point to a way to give feedback or otherwise actually discuss the addition of Bing-related features?
Not directly, other than their Facebook where people are giving feedback.
As an aside, I suspect these bing-related features are the only reason the product was brought back from the dead. Looks like Microsoft are adding features to allow you to help author text supported by GPT (e.g. change the tone of the message, rewrite portions from the keyboard etc)
As an aside, I suspect these bing-related features are the only reason the product was brought back from the dead. Looks like Microsoft are adding features to allow you to help author text supported by GPT (e.g. change the tone of the message, rewrite portions from the keyboard etc)
[deleted]
Doesn't look like it.
This might not be far off from the truth.
SwiftKey, Edge, and several other Microsoft properties are actually under the auspices of Bing Ads now. A while ago, Microsoft made the wild move to shuffle a bunch of branches under the leadership of former Yandex CTO Mikhail Parakhin. Gradually, Mikhail began to make moves that caused a fair number of the original Edge team -- those who had come from IE, brought up Spartan, then brought up Edge-on-Chromium -- to leave in fits of rage over the anticonsumer path the browser team was being forced down. The engineers revolted and left when they couldn't fight anymore.
LinkedIn tells a lot about people moving from Edge to other places and even other companies afterwards. Some of the longest time zealots of the platform have turned their back on the tools they helped make because of it.
Fast forward about a year and we get The Fucking Bing Button. A top Bing search query for several weeks was "Remove the fucking bing button in edge" (or some variant thereof). Top results are all how to get rid of the Bing discover button: https://imgur.com/qZQ1NLn
I would not be surprised if there was backlash against it in the forums that Mikhail did not like. SwiftKey is a much smaller product space that does not have a high revenue, which means that he has every incentive to make it bleed every penny it can.
SwiftKey, Edge, and several other Microsoft properties are actually under the auspices of Bing Ads now. A while ago, Microsoft made the wild move to shuffle a bunch of branches under the leadership of former Yandex CTO Mikhail Parakhin. Gradually, Mikhail began to make moves that caused a fair number of the original Edge team -- those who had come from IE, brought up Spartan, then brought up Edge-on-Chromium -- to leave in fits of rage over the anticonsumer path the browser team was being forced down. The engineers revolted and left when they couldn't fight anymore.
LinkedIn tells a lot about people moving from Edge to other places and even other companies afterwards. Some of the longest time zealots of the platform have turned their back on the tools they helped make because of it.
Fast forward about a year and we get The Fucking Bing Button. A top Bing search query for several weeks was "Remove the fucking bing button in edge" (or some variant thereof). Top results are all how to get rid of the Bing discover button: https://imgur.com/qZQ1NLn
I would not be surprised if there was backlash against it in the forums that Mikhail did not like. SwiftKey is a much smaller product space that does not have a high revenue, which means that he has every incentive to make it bleed every penny it can.
Most of the bad things I see coming from MS lately are like 90% Bing driven, and 10% writing everything for the web and not native.
eg. with Edge it's blatantly clear it's not made asking "how can it be the best tool for the user" but "how can we best use the user to drive Bing+GPT"
Thank fuck for Brave.
eg. with Edge it's blatantly clear it's not made asking "how can it be the best tool for the user" but "how can we best use the user to drive Bing+GPT"
Thank fuck for Brave.
A lot of product companies are closing user forums from the early 2010s.
My guess is that there's some legal issue involved. Maybe the lawyers were convinced that somebody posting illegal or confidential info on an unmoderated forum is a big risk, and deleting the entire things is cheaper than paying some moderators.
My guess is that there's some legal issue involved. Maybe the lawyers were convinced that somebody posting illegal or confidential info on an unmoderated forum is a big risk, and deleting the entire things is cheaper than paying some moderators.
> My guess is that there's some legal issue involved
They are just cutting costs. Forums need moderators (I am one of them, lol), and businesses can't rely on volunteers for that. Expect them to open new forums whenever they need to push adoption of some new product, re-hiring mods as part of the budget for that push.
They are just cutting costs. Forums need moderators (I am one of them, lol), and businesses can't rely on volunteers for that. Expect them to open new forums whenever they need to push adoption of some new product, re-hiring mods as part of the budget for that push.
Seems like a lot of knowledge is about to be lost/paywalled from moves like this.
>> "AI" into the FUCKING KEYBOARD
I Have No Keyboard and I Must Scream ?
I Have No Keyboard and I Must Scream ?
Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly does swiftkey offer over the usual keyboard? A quick google seems to bring up "better predictive text" and "better multi-language support" - is that it?
I mean, you say "is this it?", but the multi-language support of literally all other Android keyboards I've used are basically unusable. Take Google's default keyboard, it requires you manually switch languages for swiping and predictive text to work. But that's completely unworkable for the way multi-lingual people end up actually typing texting. I swap back and forth across languages, even if just for 1 or 2 words and having to explicitly toggle languages is a MAJOR speedbump in typing.
Swiftkey just lets me auto-complete/swipe in multiple languages seamlessly. Want to swipe 1 English word inside a completely Dutch sentence? No problem. The reverse? No problem. Using Google's keyboard the same way is endlessly frustrating.
Swiftkey just lets me auto-complete/swipe in multiple languages seamlessly. Want to swipe 1 English word inside a completely Dutch sentence? No problem. The reverse? No problem. Using Google's keyboard the same way is endlessly frustrating.
What do you mean when you say "Google's keyboard"? I use Gboard and frequently swipe sentences which mix Spanish and English just fine. You enable "Multilingual typing" on the specific keyboard and then tick off languages from other installed keyboards to enable them. Maybe you haven't tried gboard for a long time?
There's some internal matrix of "Supported" clean movement, mostly between languages with an extensive shared vocabulary. You can enable Multilingual Typing theoretically anywhere, but it only really "works" among languages that share a layout and character dictionary.
But if you need to loanword a non-common word from English into another language (e.g. Hebrew), Gboard just can't do it. If you change character sets, you change entire dictionaries. SwiftKey has a unified dictionary among all languages and makes a best guess approximation based on the current language selected and then tries the other languages you have configured.
This means that if you're going along in, say, French, but then need to reference a word in Hebrew, you can swipe over to Hebrew, bang out a word, then swap back to French, type words in English (which get autocorrected in english) and then continue in French. This isn't really feasible in Gboard without a lot of back and forth.
But if you need to loanword a non-common word from English into another language (e.g. Hebrew), Gboard just can't do it. If you change character sets, you change entire dictionaries. SwiftKey has a unified dictionary among all languages and makes a best guess approximation based on the current language selected and then tries the other languages you have configured.
This means that if you're going along in, say, French, but then need to reference a word in Hebrew, you can swipe over to Hebrew, bang out a word, then swap back to French, type words in English (which get autocorrected in english) and then continue in French. This isn't really feasible in Gboard without a lot of back and forth.
Maybe Google updated the Gboard since the last time you used it, but it definitely predicts from multiple languages in the same sentence for the last couple of months at least.
The default one on Samsung will let you select multiple languages under "Suggest text predictions". Not sure if that's a clone of the default Google one, but I had so far assumed so. Seems to switch decently between Dutch and English, for me.
Yeah. Though decently is not the same as excellently.
Written on a SwiftKey keyboard used to write English, Swedish, Danish and Icelandic with minimal issues.
Though to be fair, I think the stock keyboard is probably almost as good these days and that the difference is that my SwiftKey keyboard has been trained on my writing for several years. Though I have no idea more than that I quickly get annoyed when I try to type on the stock one.
Written on a SwiftKey keyboard used to write English, Swedish, Danish and Icelandic with minimal issues.
Though to be fair, I think the stock keyboard is probably almost as good these days and that the difference is that my SwiftKey keyboard has been trained on my writing for several years. Though I have no idea more than that I quickly get annoyed when I try to type on the stock one.
I use GBoard with both English and Spanish installed, and I don't have to manually switch anything to swipe in both languages, or get predictive text in both languages.
The predictive text combined with the predictive autocomplete are so good that they changed the way I type on my phone. I don't even need to hit the right letters anymore, the need for precisions has disappeared almost completely. This has massively sped up typing on my phone. There's also a wide variety of customisations (including an easy height slider and several input modes that you can adjust to any device) that many competing keyboards lack.
This is very obvious when I need to type on someone else's device or when I try other keyboards. They do similar things, each in their own way, but just don't do it quite so well as SwiftKey does it.
Since Microsoft bought the app I've stopped logging into it with an account (so reinstalls and new phones mean I need to retrain the keyboard) and have taken away the internet permission so it can't do any creepy stuff like send telemetry. Somehow Bing found itself into the keyboard, probably an automatic update I forgot to turn off in the Play store.
The addition of Bing is just one more sad step in the development of the app I probably use most on my phone. I switched to SwiftKey exactly because I didn't trust Google's Gboard and now all this Cortana 2.0 crap is making the keyboard just as bad as the one I dropped years ago.
This is very obvious when I need to type on someone else's device or when I try other keyboards. They do similar things, each in their own way, but just don't do it quite so well as SwiftKey does it.
Since Microsoft bought the app I've stopped logging into it with an account (so reinstalls and new phones mean I need to retrain the keyboard) and have taken away the internet permission so it can't do any creepy stuff like send telemetry. Somehow Bing found itself into the keyboard, probably an automatic update I forgot to turn off in the Play store.
The addition of Bing is just one more sad step in the development of the app I probably use most on my phone. I switched to SwiftKey exactly because I didn't trust Google's Gboard and now all this Cortana 2.0 crap is making the keyboard just as bad as the one I dropped years ago.
Curious about that. I don't exactly like Microsoft, but them buying it made me trust it more with my data than some random small company. I expect MS to have routines around data security and they they have very little incentive to use my data in illegal ways, eg try to sniff my passwords or something like that. So with MS owning it, I trust more that they don't store text written in password fields (and it never suggests any of my passwords) than if it's some small company that I've never heard of and making a keyboard without a clear way of monetizing it (though I'd absolutely pay quite a lot for SwiftKey).
If I have to enter passwords I use Keepass' keyboard, also because I store them in that password manager and its keyboard has one User and one Password key. I switch with a small button to the right of Android's back button.
I'm actually looking forward to trying out GPT4 through Bing... but wish I didn't have to sacrifice my privacy to do it.
Swiping and the features you mentioned are amongst the best I've tried. So yes, it's a "better" "usual" keyboard that makes me type more efficiently than other keyboards. E.g. Gboard doesn't come close and feels like a big downgrade.
Fast edit: it's Monday morning, I didn't realise there were so many other replies already.
Fast edit: it's Monday morning, I didn't realise there were so many other replies already.
I'm someone who switched from SwiftKey (paid plan) to GBoard, and never looked back. I much prefer GBoard to SwiftKey. So it might be a matter of preference
Really? I hope you're right, I'm looking for a better alternative than SwiftKey, but I haven't found any yet. I'll try GBoard again now, thanks.
EDIT: It's good, but not as good as Swiftkey in its UX. Swiping for punctuation doesn't work, you need to long press and swipe. Pressing space to insert the prediction and then pressing comma doesn't remove the space, so it requires an awkward dance to insert a comma and a prediction simultaneously. There's no gesture to dismiss the keyboard, the "delete word" swipe is a bit awkward, long pressing buttons doesn't give you punctuation, and that's just what I've found in a few minutes of use. I hope they address these soon.
EDIT: It's good, but not as good as Swiftkey in its UX. Swiping for punctuation doesn't work, you need to long press and swipe. Pressing space to insert the prediction and then pressing comma doesn't remove the space, so it requires an awkward dance to insert a comma and a prediction simultaneously. There's no gesture to dismiss the keyboard, the "delete word" swipe is a bit awkward, long pressing buttons doesn't give you punctuation, and that's just what I've found in a few minutes of use. I hope they address these soon.
Ah. These days I just use speech to text, with a combination of swiping sometimes and tapping for punctuation.
I also don't to use my phone much anymore (since I reduced social media usage and disabled notifications).
FWIW I think the reason I moved away from SwiftKey was because it kept having strange language issues in a multilingual setup, but I haven't used it in a while; probably 5+ years.
Maybe I'm just not a touchscreen keyboard power user any longer
I also don't to use my phone much anymore (since I reduced social media usage and disabled notifications).
FWIW I think the reason I moved away from SwiftKey was because it kept having strange language issues in a multilingual setup, but I haven't used it in a while; probably 5+ years.
Maybe I'm just not a touchscreen keyboard power user any longer
My biggest gripe with GBoard is the word prediction for swipes that are ambiguous.
It consistently gives me "sine" over "some" and never learns. I type "sine" maybe a couple of times a day and type "some" dozens of times a day. I imagine getting the weighting right is tricky but it just seems to be wrong most of the time.
I don't remember SwiftKey being any better but I might give it another try just in case.
It consistently gives me "sine" over "some" and never learns. I type "sine" maybe a couple of times a day and type "some" dozens of times a day. I imagine getting the weighting right is tricky but it just seems to be wrong most of the time.
I don't remember SwiftKey being any better but I might give it another try just in case.
In that department, it's not. It often corrects "my" to "NY", which is ridiculous. It's the best I've found overall, though.
It’s a keyboard. Better predictive text and better multi-language support are flagship features. It’s such a fundamental part of how you interact with your device that even a tiny incremental improvement gets amplified into a sizeable QoL improvement.
is that it?
Superficially yes[1]. But they are so much better, especially the multi-language support, that nothing else really compares. I've been using Swiftkey since before the Microsoft purchase, and really dislike having to use the default keyboards on both Android and iOS.
[1] It also has a lot more configurable keyboard layouts and theming, but I don't really use those.
Superficially yes[1]. But they are so much better, especially the multi-language support, that nothing else really compares. I've been using Swiftkey since before the Microsoft purchase, and really dislike having to use the default keyboards on both Android and iOS.
[1] It also has a lot more configurable keyboard layouts and theming, but I don't really use those.
A lot of customization options too - size and theme, number row or not, arrows or not, include accents in long-press menus, etc.
But the better predictive text is kind of huge. Makes typing much faster and easier when the predictions are more commonly correct. As an aside, I expect this could get massively better over the near future given this new investment in LLMs.
I've been using it on Android for many years now. The stock keyboards are, perhaps ironically, like the stock browser in Windows was until very recently: the one you use to get the good one. (Edge is still that, but now it's also the place to use Bing Chat...)
But the better predictive text is kind of huge. Makes typing much faster and easier when the predictions are more commonly correct. As an aside, I expect this could get massively better over the near future given this new investment in LLMs.
I've been using it on Android for many years now. The stock keyboards are, perhaps ironically, like the stock browser in Windows was until very recently: the one you use to get the good one. (Edge is still that, but now it's also the place to use Bing Chat...)
The iOS standard keyboard does not support swiping if your language is Norwegian.
I was trying to find the full list of the languages where QuickPath (Swipe) is supported. Here it is:
https://www.apple.com/ios/feature-availability/#quicktype-ke...
Chinese, Dutch, English, French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, Swedish, Vietnamese.
https://www.apple.com/ios/feature-availability/#quicktype-ke...
Chinese, Dutch, English, French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, Swedish, Vietnamese.
IMO, here’s a lot of room for improvement for German, because it’s a real dice roll whether a compound noun will be recognised or not. You can try swiping the components individually, but then you have to go deleting spaces everywhere. Unless there’s a feature I’m missing?
This is the sort of thing I think someone would have found a better solution for if more languages (and possibly English in particular) had non-spaced compound nouns.
This is the sort of thing I think someone would have found a better solution for if more languages (and possibly English in particular) had non-spaced compound nouns.
Or Polish, for that matter.
Swiping is a blessing on iPhone Mini, but it's not available in my language for some reason. Multilingual input, I can just start typing in English or Czech and two words in, the keyboard knows. And even for normal tap-typing, the accuracy is a bit better because the keyboard apparently learns from your mistakes and basically builds a virtual keyboard with shifted letters underneath the visible one.
(to be clear I'm petty enough to be willing to give it all up for not having to stare at a fucking Bing button, so I uninstalled it)
(to be clear I'm petty enough to be willing to give it all up for not having to stare at a fucking Bing button, so I uninstalled it)
I don't stare at my keyboards, so I never noticed the Bing key, but I just checked, and indeed, it's there. (Now I'm wondering if I will now keep seeing it..!?)
Tbh I have to stare at my smartphone keyboard or else I make a lot of typos. And about the button, it's not even that it takes up space or looks that bad, it's about the principles. In my world, you just don't put useless crap on someone's keyboard.
It offers adaptive, predictive input without the "auto-embarrass" and "change my prescription" feature of certain other keyboards with predictive input.
It also lets me write multiple languages, with working autocomplete in each, without changing keyboard.
Finally, for many of us who needs non-English input, the obvious other choice of iOS keyboard doesn't offer any predictions at all. I guess setting up embarrassing word swaps for Norwegian isn't a priority.
It also lets me write multiple languages, with working autocomplete in each, without changing keyboard.
Finally, for many of us who needs non-English input, the obvious other choice of iOS keyboard doesn't offer any predictions at all. I guess setting up embarrassing word swaps for Norwegian isn't a priority.
I write in two languages several times throughout the day, and worse: I code-switch all the time between the two (in the same text, that is).
That is definitely the killer feature for me. So I have an old version of swiftkey, blocked Internet access because fuck me if I let Microsoft snoop on all I write, and an xposed module (Exi) with useful mods.
PS: if anyone has a Free Software alternative I'm all ears.
That is definitely the killer feature for me. So I have an old version of swiftkey, blocked Internet access because fuck me if I let Microsoft snoop on all I write, and an xposed module (Exi) with useful mods.
PS: if anyone has a Free Software alternative I'm all ears.
Probably the gap between stock keyboards and SwiftKey has narrowed down over the last decade. The key differentiators are:
Mixed language model learning: ngram models learnt on phone span base language models so it's very good at Spanglish.
A probabilistic typing model is learnt on device to capture characteristic patterns of key presses/misses for your typing style.
Mixed language model learning: ngram models learnt on phone span base language models so it's very good at Spanglish.
A probabilistic typing model is learnt on device to capture characteristic patterns of key presses/misses for your typing style.
Other than the things it does well, it has great ergonomics. On large Android phones it lets you raise the keyboard so you can type in the middle of the screen. Everyone else makes you type at the bottom of the device which is unbalanced.
I know a better way to fix that: start making phones that aren't absolute hand tablets x)
I use it because it has shifted characters over regular keys, so I can get to the most used ones with a touch-hold-slide action vs. finding the "other" keyboard overlay, then hunt for it.
And, it does the slidy input if I want that.
And, it does the slidy input if I want that.
> "better predictive text" and "better multi-language support" - is that it?
For me this is half of it, it's also performance. It is MUCH faster at bringing up word suggestions. As in faster than I can even reach my thumb up to type the next word there are already excellent suggestions available, and I often can type entire sentences only touching keys on the keyboard a few times.
Just the performance difference makes the iOS builtin keyboard predictions almost unusable for me (in addition to the fact that the predictions are simply much better on swiftkey).
For me this is half of it, it's also performance. It is MUCH faster at bringing up word suggestions. As in faster than I can even reach my thumb up to type the next word there are already excellent suggestions available, and I often can type entire sentences only touching keys on the keyboard a few times.
Just the performance difference makes the iOS builtin keyboard predictions almost unusable for me (in addition to the fact that the predictions are simply much better on swiftkey).
If you use a language with diacritics (like Polish), you can type without them and SwiftKey will do The Right Thing most of the time. It's a BIG DEAL.
I'm on Android and I've been swyping on my keyboards since 2011 and SwiftKey since 2018. It seems to understand the movements of my fingers better than the other keyboards I have on my devices. The currently installed alternative is Samsung's keyboard. I probably never installed Google's one.
If I were tapping keys with two hands, which I sometimes end up doing (single handed)... no idea which keyboard would be better.
If I were tapping keys with two hands, which I sometimes end up doing (single handed)... no idea which keyboard would be better.
Unless Samsung's keyboard changed recently it should also use Swiftkey's engine.
Gboard is worth a try, it feels more responsive to me. Its predictions aren't always good though, at least in languages other than English.
Gboard is worth a try, it feels more responsive to me. Its predictions aren't always good though, at least in languages other than English.
On android it's the only keyboard I could find whose position (not size of the keys) you can adjust without setting it to floating.
With the bezel-less smartphones, I found that if the keyboard sits at the bottom of the screen, one-handed typing is impossible for my thumb. With swiftkey I can basically add a bezel at the bottom to bring the keyboard up to where I can comfortably type with one hand.
With the bezel-less smartphones, I found that if the keyboard sits at the bottom of the screen, one-handed typing is impossible for my thumb. With swiftkey I can basically add a bezel at the bottom to bring the keyboard up to where I can comfortably type with one hand.
I don't know whether it's standard feature on other keyboard, I love to use the clipboard and the ability to pin past clipboard and smiley shortcuts allow me to search.
Those two are probably small unimportant that make it feels home.
It has a lot of themes and layouts, various typing-related songs, like if you want auto-capitalization or auto-spacing on our off, but the main thing I got it for originally was it was geared towards swiping to type,which I found to be a lot faster than Garrity letter-at-a-time typing... I don't know if it was an early pioneer at that or what, but it seems like most other keyboards let you do that now, so it's advantage (if it ever had one is less than it used to be).
But, in any case, I do like how it can predict a word as you type, so you don't have to type the full word out before releasing your finger and it will toe out the rest, and it does a good job of predicting phrases I types a lot, so for those I don't even have to type them out fully... I just have to type the first word or so and then tap on the predicted words to fill in the rest (or however many words of the prediction I want)... it can be a time saver.
But, in any case, I do like how it can predict a word as you type, so you don't have to type the full word out before releasing your finger and it will toe out the rest, and it does a good job of predicting phrases I types a lot, so for those I don't even have to type them out fully... I just have to type the first word or so and then tap on the predicted words to fill in the rest (or however many words of the prediction I want)... it can be a time saver.
The text prediction is phenomenal, it even works naturally between different languages.
iOS default keyboard doesn't let me enter bilingual Polish-English text.
It has a cool bing button. :-)
They had swiping first
Not at all. Swype existed already in the pre-iOS/Android era. Even Flesky copied the feature before SwiftKey.
Ah my bad you’re right
> This one hurts, it really hurts. I think this hurts worse than Musk buying/poisoning/killing Twitter. I've mentioned this before but a keyboard feels like an extension of your body
People need to take a break. Being terminally online and complaining about everything is not a healthy way of life.
People need to take a break. Being terminally online and complaining about everything is not a healthy way of life.
If a keyboard app feels like an extension of your body, it means you write a lot. It doesn't mean that you are "terminally online", and even if you were online all the time, that's a personal choice and not being online all the time doesn't even solve the problem shared here.
I'd even say, perhaps it's best not to tell people that their problems aren't problems to begin with. I'm not saying one should care, it'd be enough just not to explicitly dismiss on their face.
I'd even say, perhaps it's best not to tell people that their problems aren't problems to begin with. I'm not saying one should care, it'd be enough just not to explicitly dismiss on their face.
The same shit happens when driving.
Our internal understanding of our own bodies seems to adapt to take the tools we're using into account.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_schema
https://scholar.google.co.nz/scholar?q=related:5uSissKo6EgJ:...
Our internal understanding of our own bodies seems to adapt to take the tools we're using into account.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_schema
https://scholar.google.co.nz/scholar?q=related:5uSissKo6EgJ:...
> The same shit happens when driving.
In a broader sense, it never fails to amaze me that a kilo and a half of goopy cells that evolved to work out where the plants that won't kill you and where to trap rabbits in the next valley are - things that are, generally speaking, not much further than you can see - can visualise every step and turn of a journey of hundreds of miles, while being shoved through space at roughly 20 times normal walking speed, and do this for many different journeys *including ones we have not taken yet* but which happen to be in roughly the same direction as where we were a last week.
Where I'm sitting it is a four hour drive to even get to England and yet I can clearly visualise where I'd go if I was driving around Bradford, another couple of hours further south. For that matter, it's not much more effort to visualise driving right to the south coast of England, working out where to get the ferry at Dover, and then how to drive right to Geneva from Dunkirk, and drive around there too.
How do we do this with a brain that evolved to cope with a couple of miles of hills and forest? Is it because I can drive a car at 60mph and therefore cover twenty times the distance I can walk in roughly the same time, so it all just scales naturally?
It's crazy, isn't it?
You'll be thinking about this next time you drive.
In a broader sense, it never fails to amaze me that a kilo and a half of goopy cells that evolved to work out where the plants that won't kill you and where to trap rabbits in the next valley are - things that are, generally speaking, not much further than you can see - can visualise every step and turn of a journey of hundreds of miles, while being shoved through space at roughly 20 times normal walking speed, and do this for many different journeys *including ones we have not taken yet* but which happen to be in roughly the same direction as where we were a last week.
Where I'm sitting it is a four hour drive to even get to England and yet I can clearly visualise where I'd go if I was driving around Bradford, another couple of hours further south. For that matter, it's not much more effort to visualise driving right to the south coast of England, working out where to get the ferry at Dover, and then how to drive right to Geneva from Dunkirk, and drive around there too.
How do we do this with a brain that evolved to cope with a couple of miles of hills and forest? Is it because I can drive a car at 60mph and therefore cover twenty times the distance I can walk in roughly the same time, so it all just scales naturally?
It's crazy, isn't it?
You'll be thinking about this next time you drive.
>> an visualise every step and turn of a journey of hundreds of miles, while being shoved through space at roughly 20 times normal walking speed, and do this for many different journeys.
That is nothing. Try to run through a forest chasing a deer. Your brain will be calculating paths around trees, planning each footfall based on 3d terrain scans in your peripheral vision, constantly recalculating the position and likely path of the deer, and all the while a subroutine is calculating the trajectory of the rock you are about to through at your (hopefully) future dinner. That is what the human brain evolved to do. In comparison, driving a car along a road is like watching paint dry.
Then think about what the deer brain is doing. It does all the same terrain mapping and 3d planning, but does so at double or triple the bandwidth. Deer see 300+ degrees, humans only 130ish.
That is nothing. Try to run through a forest chasing a deer. Your brain will be calculating paths around trees, planning each footfall based on 3d terrain scans in your peripheral vision, constantly recalculating the position and likely path of the deer, and all the while a subroutine is calculating the trajectory of the rock you are about to through at your (hopefully) future dinner. That is what the human brain evolved to do. In comparison, driving a car along a road is like watching paint dry.
Then think about what the deer brain is doing. It does all the same terrain mapping and 3d planning, but does so at double or triple the bandwidth. Deer see 300+ degrees, humans only 130ish.
What really blows my mind about driving is that with a little bit of training, we get a feel for how big the car is. You can squeeze into a tight parking lot and you won't scratch your or the other car! By feel! We can somehow transfer our feeling for how big our body is to avoid running into obstacles, to feel how big our car is.
There is nothing in the history of mankind that would need for this to be a possible skill; no conceivable evolutionary pressure lead to being able to transfer the feeling for the size of our body onto other objects, while being inside those objects. We can just do that!
There is nothing in the history of mankind that would need for this to be a possible skill; no conceivable evolutionary pressure lead to being able to transfer the feeling for the size of our body onto other objects, while being inside those objects. We can just do that!
I'm not so sure. Using tools is the defining specialty of our species, and knowing where the end of your tool is in 3D space seems fairly important to be able to hit that tiger with a spear.
Well for this to work you also have to “feel” how big the parking space is, which is obviously not an extension of your body.
What’s happening here is that your eyes are connected to a very highly trained model of the physical world around you. And your subjective experience of vision occurs post-processing through that model. It’s the same model you use to physically navigate the world, so it has a similar subjective feel regardless of what you’re doing.
It’s not limited to cars and tools; pitchers can “feel” the strike zone, even though it’s 60 feet away. Like driving, this takes a lot of reps to develop (lots of training data).
What’s happening here is that your eyes are connected to a very highly trained model of the physical world around you. And your subjective experience of vision occurs post-processing through that model. It’s the same model you use to physically navigate the world, so it has a similar subjective feel regardless of what you’re doing.
It’s not limited to cars and tools; pitchers can “feel” the strike zone, even though it’s 60 feet away. Like driving, this takes a lot of reps to develop (lots of training data).
We evolved to wear all sorts of clothing. And really when you think about it the brain is probably the descendant of some parasite which crawled into another organism and used the exo-organism as a puppet, so in a sense it's exactly what a brain was originally adapted for is glomming on weird new appendages.
> when you think about it the brain is probably the descendant of some parasite which crawled into another organism and used the exo-organism as a puppet
I haven't heard this claim before - any specific reading I should look for?
I haven't heard this claim before - any specific reading I should look for?
[deleted]
Maybe our monkey cousins carrying their offspring on their back? But yeah it's a very slight pressure.
It's possible because the road you're driving is an abstraction that eliminates so much information.
While you're running through the woods, you have to see and account for every rock and root or you trip, fall, and get literally eaten alive. While driving on a road, you don't need to consider the road itself at all, really.
That's the technology of roads - removing all obstacles to travel. A road is literally an empty, smooth space. So now you only need to consider traffic, turns, and distance.
I'm not surprised at all that our brains that can probably remember the locations of every fruiting bush and tree in our territory can efficiently encode some turns.
While you're running through the woods, you have to see and account for every rock and root or you trip, fall, and get literally eaten alive. While driving on a road, you don't need to consider the road itself at all, really.
That's the technology of roads - removing all obstacles to travel. A road is literally an empty, smooth space. So now you only need to consider traffic, turns, and distance.
I'm not surprised at all that our brains that can probably remember the locations of every fruiting bush and tree in our territory can efficiently encode some turns.
> How do we do this with a brain that evolved to cope with a couple of miles of hills and forest?
That’s where your misunderstanding is. A lot of animals are migratory, including us. We _did_ evolve to understand how to cross continents.
That’s where your misunderstanding is. A lot of animals are migratory, including us. We _did_ evolve to understand how to cross continents.
One can tell the British background by the mix of metric ('kilo') and imperial ('mile').
Mentioning that as the way we adapt with different units, feeling natural about them, and getting defensive about them, too.
Mentioning that as the way we adapt with different units, feeling natural about them, and getting defensive about them, too.
I mean, "4 hour drive to get to England" also puts quite a limit on the search space.
A lot of France and Belgium is about one 4 hour drive away from England ;)
Threads like this always make me realize that Canada's sprawl is real.
4 hour drive and you're about half way to your parent's place, and they're in the same province.
4 hour drive and you're about half way to your parent's place, and they're in the same province.
100 miles is a long way in Europe, 100 years is a long time in America.
You don't drive in the Eurotunnel
Not really, but it's not very different. You just drive to the train, park on the train and drive off the train when it stops. I haven't been to England for a long time but when I did I was simply calling it driving to England.
I'd still call somewhere on the continent an 'N hour drive.' The 'drive' part indicates traveling by car the entire distance (I've never been on a eurotunnel trip where we bothered getting a cabin so we were sat in the car the entire time) and in any case it's pretty clear what you meant given the absence of pure land routes.
The impression was before reaching that point
I'm not particularly "defensive" about units.
I would however point out that I am not British, I'm Scottish.
I would however point out that I am not British, I'm Scottish.
Being Scottish technically makes you British, at least until independence comes. I'd argue that, even then, it will remain the case - as long as we accept that Scotland will continue to be part of the British Isles, and in particular of the island of Britain.
I recognise Gordonjcp's autonomy to choose their own preferred identity. Nationality is a social construct that can be perceived differently in various contexts. If someone prefers to identify as Scottish rather than British, at least in informal settings, I believe it's important to respect their perspective instead of insisting on a particular label.
Of course, they might _technically_ be British from a legal standpoint, which I'm sure Gordonjcp is aware of. It's entirely possible to be both British and not-British simultaneously in different contexts. This sort of thing isn't black and white.
Of course, they might _technically_ be British from a legal standpoint, which I'm sure Gordonjcp is aware of. It's entirely possible to be both British and not-British simultaneously in different contexts. This sort of thing isn't black and white.
> I believe it's important to respect their perspective instead of insisting on a particular label.
Absolutely, but it would be nice if people expressed their wishes in logical terms. "I prefer to describe that dog as a terrier" is logically sound, "that is a terrier, not a dog" is not. The latter tries to arbitrarily redefine what a dog is.
Absolutely, but it would be nice if people expressed their wishes in logical terms. "I prefer to describe that dog as a terrier" is logically sound, "that is a terrier, not a dog" is not. The latter tries to arbitrarily redefine what a dog is.
"I am not British, I'm Scottish." is just shorthand for that.
It's a bit like "Charlie's not a dog, he's my best friend"
It's a bit like "Charlie's not a dog, he's my best friend"
> "Charlie's not a dog, he's my best friend"
I'd argue that one can be damaging and we should call people out on it.
Dogs are dogs and they need to be treated like dogs. The infantilization of dogs is how you get unleashed dogs getting into dog fights when it turns out that Charlie really just is another dog and should have been leashed.
I'd argue that one can be damaging and we should call people out on it.
Dogs are dogs and they need to be treated like dogs. The infantilization of dogs is how you get unleashed dogs getting into dog fights when it turns out that Charlie really just is another dog and should have been leashed.
Charlie's not just a dog, but he's indeed a dog.
Shorthands are fine, but this is not it. This is some weird agenda to deny the logical truth.
Shorthands are fine, but this is not it. This is some weird agenda to deny the logical truth.
I mean, it says "United Kingdom of Great Britain" on the front of my recently-issued taking-back-control-of-Britain blue passport, printed in Poland by a French company using Spanish presses and software, Italian ink, Finnish paper, and equipped with an RFID tag made in Turkey, all of whom beat out a company in Sunderland for the contract, who have since gone bust.
Yay for Brexit.
Yay for Brexit.
I think I'd liken it to the fact that -I- consider myself to be European as well as British, but there are plenty of people who clearly don't, even if arguably European is technically correct as a descriptor of all of us.
Scotland and Britain are separate countries in the UK with separate histories. No-one means the island when they talk about being British, they mean the descendants of the Britons.
Would be a nice thought, but literally nobody means the descendants of the Britons where talking about being British.
If they did, depending upon what that encompasses, then either large swathes of Scotland would be included (Glasgow is a Brythonic name!), or you'd be excluding England from the discussion.
Largely without fail, someone talking about Britain is talking of the island itself, or the current inhabitants.
If they did, depending upon what that encompasses, then either large swathes of Scotland would be included (Glasgow is a Brythonic name!), or you'd be excluding England from the discussion.
Largely without fail, someone talking about Britain is talking of the island itself, or the current inhabitants.
The irony of a comment trying to riff on the usual "Britain isn't England" trope while getting it completely and utterly wrong, is... remarkable. You are GPT and I claim my devalued £1.
You're incorrect, so have the obligatory CGP Grey video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10
Thanks for the reference. Unfortunately I can’t edit the comment anymore.
> The term "Great Britain" can also refer to the political territory of England, Scotland and Wales, which includes their offshore islands.[12] This territory and Northern Ireland constitute the United Kingdom.[13] The single Kingdom of Great Britain resulted from the 1707 Acts of Union between the kingdoms of England (which at the time incorporated Wales) and Scotland.
This thought occurs to me constantly. And I apply it to the other drivers too, it's pretty crazy how we got traffic and automobiles working without crashing into each other. The brain is an amazing organ.
It's also pretty amazing on a social level too. With a few obvious exceptions (certain signage, driving on the left or right side, etc.) the whole system was standardized for every adult in the entire world in something like 50 years. Everyone wanting to "get into" driving has to play by some basic rules. (And not following them is far more likely to be a mistake than intentional, at scale.)
Then I look at bees and I realize we're really not that special.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/honeybee-mental-number-l... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/03/230307144358.h... https://today.ucsd.edu/story/complex-learned-social-behavior...
It's also pretty amazing on a social level too. With a few obvious exceptions (certain signage, driving on the left or right side, etc.) the whole system was standardized for every adult in the entire world in something like 50 years. Everyone wanting to "get into" driving has to play by some basic rules. (And not following them is far more likely to be a mistake than intentional, at scale.)
Then I look at bees and I realize we're really not that special.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/honeybee-mental-number-l... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/03/230307144358.h... https://today.ucsd.edu/story/complex-learned-social-behavior...
Mentally, we seem to be able to adapt well to things that we can relate to what we 'should' know about. So roads are similar to naturally occurring tracks with landmarks.
This seems to break down when we deal with things without easily appreciated analogues e.g. black holes and quantum physics.
OTOH I don't know why we can pick up driving and cycling so easily. Some people instinctively know how to countersteer an oversteering car.
This seems to break down when we deal with things without easily appreciated analogues e.g. black holes and quantum physics.
OTOH I don't know why we can pick up driving and cycling so easily. Some people instinctively know how to countersteer an oversteering car.
> while being shoved through space at roughly 20 times normal walking speed
Predators are way faster than our walking speed. And the faster road is the more gentle any turn is so going 120km/h on a highway doesn't really require that much more reflex than running on twisty forest path.
> Where I'm sitting it is a four hour drive to even get to England and yet I can clearly visualise where I'd go if I was driving around Bradford, another couple of hours further south. For that matter, it's not much more effort to visualise driving right to the south coast of England, working out where to get the ferry at Dover, and then how to drive right to Geneva from Dunkirk, and drive around there too.
That has nothing to do with cars, people travelled before them.
You might say "but it is bigger area" but it is also scaled up to car size. And with clear landmarks, hell, even signs telling you where you are and where to go.
That's significantly easier than going into dense forest, that also changes look based on seasons.
Predators are way faster than our walking speed. And the faster road is the more gentle any turn is so going 120km/h on a highway doesn't really require that much more reflex than running on twisty forest path.
> Where I'm sitting it is a four hour drive to even get to England and yet I can clearly visualise where I'd go if I was driving around Bradford, another couple of hours further south. For that matter, it's not much more effort to visualise driving right to the south coast of England, working out where to get the ferry at Dover, and then how to drive right to Geneva from Dunkirk, and drive around there too.
That has nothing to do with cars, people travelled before them.
You might say "but it is bigger area" but it is also scaled up to car size. And with clear landmarks, hell, even signs telling you where you are and where to go.
That's significantly easier than going into dense forest, that also changes look based on seasons.
> I can clearly visualise where I'd go if I was driving around Bradford
Straight on at full speed and hope you manage to dodge the local nutters driving like maniacs en route.
(I did actually like Bradford in a bunch of ways but the drivers were still impressively aggressive, to the point where being a pedestrian in Italy was honestly quite a comfortable experience)
Straight on at full speed and hope you manage to dodge the local nutters driving like maniacs en route.
(I did actually like Bradford in a bunch of ways but the drivers were still impressively aggressive, to the point where being a pedestrian in Italy was honestly quite a comfortable experience)
I mostly only went down there for Infest once a year, and the city centre isn't as terrifying as some of the suburbs which actually do like they were just LIDAR-scanned for some of the Fallout scenery.
Fucking *Wakefield*, though.
Fucking *Wakefield*, though.
We're been selected for the more extreme events that our ancestors went through, not just the day to day.
We're a species that has navigated its way across the world.
Human tribes frequently migrated seasonally with the herds on which we depended for food and clothing.
We're very well equipped for long distance travel.
We're a species that has navigated its way across the world.
Human tribes frequently migrated seasonally with the herds on which we depended for food and clothing.
We're very well equipped for long distance travel.
On the other hand, kids that are driven to school have a much worse mental model of their surrounding neighbourhood than kids who walk or bike. The agency and feedback matters.
This strongly resonates with my memory of Marshall McLuhan and his book Understanding Media: Extensions of man; Where he defines media as any extension of ourselves or our senses. Arguing that a car (but in essence) its wheels, are extensions of our legs, and by giving us the ability to traverse further faster shaped our perception and the evolution of society.
However it's a large book and I'll have to give it a reread since this is based on a vague recollection. But it's been in my mind more and more lately, especially with all the AI hype in the news.
However it's a large book and I'll have to give it a reread since this is based on a vague recollection. But it's been in my mind more and more lately, especially with all the AI hype in the news.
I have wondered if this phenomenon had a name, thanks!
why would you develop such dependency on a proprietary piece of code?
> I'd even say, perhaps it's best not to tell people that their problems aren't problems to begin with. I'm not saying one should care, it'd be enough just not to explicitly dismiss on their face.
generally speaking, the opposite is true - people need to take some accountability for their problems, thanks to the disintegration of conversation people have had it too easy to simply mute or block opinions they found uncomfortable, helping them to avoid facing problems much more than it's sane to do
> I'd even say, perhaps it's best not to tell people that their problems aren't problems to begin with. I'm not saying one should care, it'd be enough just not to explicitly dismiss on their face.
generally speaking, the opposite is true - people need to take some accountability for their problems, thanks to the disintegration of conversation people have had it too easy to simply mute or block opinions they found uncomfortable, helping them to avoid facing problems much more than it's sane to do
The open source keyboard space on Android is weirdly incredibly deficient
No way to type Chinese with an open source keyboard. And no way to do local speak-to-text (even English) with an open source keyboard
No way to type Chinese with an open source keyboard. And no way to do local speak-to-text (even English) with an open source keyboard
yep well, as far as I'm concerned they're all crap including SwiftKey esp. when compared with using a properly set-up computer
phones aren't great for input, and perhaps won't be in the foreseeable future, but using proprietary closed keyboards with no roughly-equivalent alternatives just compounds the problem
every time I want to type something substantial, in any language, I wait until I have access to a computer; it's particularly bad in Japanese and Chinese in my experience, but it's not great in any language - in Asian languages you'd get good over time with some specific system (say 4-corners, zhuyin, kana/conv, and specific predictive dictionaries) and then have support end, so why even bother?
phones aren't great for input, and perhaps won't be in the foreseeable future, but using proprietary closed keyboards with no roughly-equivalent alternatives just compounds the problem
every time I want to type something substantial, in any language, I wait until I have access to a computer; it's particularly bad in Japanese and Chinese in my experience, but it's not great in any language - in Asian languages you'd get good over time with some specific system (say 4-corners, zhuyin, kana/conv, and specific predictive dictionaries) and then have support end, so why even bother?
Good reliable text to speak on mobile is quite seemless and pleasant. For instance to "type" messages or thoughts as you're biking. I used a proprietary offline one from Vivo and it was great (unfortunately the keyboard had other issues)
I'm not a native speaker but Microsoft's pinyin on windows and Google's pinyin input system on Linux both give much better results than the few open source alternatives I've tried .. so the situation is only marginally better at the desktop (I haven't tried text to speak on the desktop)
It's one of those weird areas where theyre both supposedly old solved problems - but for some reason nobody has bothered to make open source solutions
I'm not a native speaker but Microsoft's pinyin on windows and Google's pinyin input system on Linux both give much better results than the few open source alternatives I've tried .. so the situation is only marginally better at the desktop (I haven't tried text to speak on the desktop)
It's one of those weird areas where theyre both supposedly old solved problems - but for some reason nobody has bothered to make open source solutions
it may sound overkill, but I mostly use my own personal modifications to ibus-typing-booster for my input (formerly to ibus directly)
it works well enough for me on my computer, and i simply avoid phones for input - anything "phone" is factory-lobotomised and nothing else should really be expected, and even if the software were to suddenly be best effort, you'd still have to overcome very taxing interface limitations
this has the disadvantage of making you even less at home in other devices but hey, my reality is what when this happens I wouldn't have been any better off regardless
it works well enough for me on my computer, and i simply avoid phones for input - anything "phone" is factory-lobotomised and nothing else should really be expected, and even if the software were to suddenly be best effort, you'd still have to overcome very taxing interface limitations
this has the disadvantage of making you even less at home in other devices but hey, my reality is what when this happens I wouldn't have been any better off regardless
Yeah, those are yaks I'm not ready to shave. And I do mostly stick to voice messages on the go. But some people are allergic, so I do try to use voice-to-text then. I'm pretty sure the Ubuntu package for input method googlepinyin is entirely offline so I'm not too concerned. More just disappointed with how far behind opensource options are - when these things have been around for a decade+ and are described in textbook by this point
I would say comparing it to Musk buying Twitter is about being terminally online. Like someone bought Twitter and basically made improvements. There are a whole bunch of things he did which don't really affect how many people use or interact with the app which people hate but it's really just internet drama.
Amplifying right wing extremists is an improvement?
Has he? Is there evidence of this? I believe when the former head it safety left he said they were removing far more stuff than before. For example, I heard there were some child porn hashtags that got wiped out. I haven’t seen any more right wing extremists.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/elon-musk-twitter-force-fed-e...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/10/28/musk-tw...
That's on top of Twitter previously finding that right Wong voices were already amplified far more than those on the left, which was during the peak of the right wing complaints of being silenced
https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2021/rml-polit...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/10/28/musk-tw...
That's on top of Twitter previously finding that right Wong voices were already amplified far more than those on the left, which was during the peak of the right wing complaints of being silenced
https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2021/rml-polit...
I don’t see any proof. I see people saying it’s happening. Seems very much like narrative that people want to believe.
It’s a free-to-download optional keyboard app that augments the perfectly adequate built in keyboard functionality of a thousand dollar device, not a prosthetic limb.
If it goes away or embeds features you don’t like, nobody is kicking your crutches away.
If it goes away or embeds features you don’t like, nobody is kicking your crutches away.
You ok?
From the Wikipedia page for SwiftKey:
"In September 2022, Microsoft announced it was terminating support for the iOS version of SwiftKey. The app was removed from the App Store on October 5.[15]
In November 2022, Microsoft announced a reversal of its decision to discontinue SwiftKey for iOS devices. The app was relisted on November 18, with Microsoft promising future updates for the app. The company cited "customer feedback" as a reason for SwiftKey's return.[16]"
Assuming "customer feedback" is a euphemism for people complaining online then perhaps this is sometimes an effective strategy. These so-called "tech" companies often have no meaningfui Customer Service as they do not want to pay for it, but it seems they do pay people to monitor what is said about them online.
"In September 2022, Microsoft announced it was terminating support for the iOS version of SwiftKey. The app was removed from the App Store on October 5.[15]
In November 2022, Microsoft announced a reversal of its decision to discontinue SwiftKey for iOS devices. The app was relisted on November 18, with Microsoft promising future updates for the app. The company cited "customer feedback" as a reason for SwiftKey's return.[16]"
Assuming "customer feedback" is a euphemism for people complaining online then perhaps this is sometimes an effective strategy. These so-called "tech" companies often have no meaningfui Customer Service as they do not want to pay for it, but it seems they do pay people to monitor what is said about them online.
My $10 says the cause for reversal wasn't "customer feedback", but LLM/LM part of Microsoft realizing that they just shut down the only system-wide text-based touchpoint Microsoft ever had on iOS, just as they want to start integrating Bing/LLM everywhere.
[deleted]
Using Swiftkey since it's first release, it's more than being angry at online changes.
The keyboard works in such a way that it learns your typing style and then understands what you type without the requirement for actually hitting the right keys.
I can type "ky nt gromf koe stw uoi" and it will become "hi my friend how are you".
This makes typing on a phone extremely fast.
The problem is that other keyboards that claim to have similar features are not able to understand my typing gibberish.
In essence, I and many other Swiftkey users have trained ourselves to no longer be able to use any other keyboard.
Is this worth being mad over? In my opinion yes, a product loved by many being purchased by a big company who then close down support avenues is always a good reason to be mad.
The keyboard works in such a way that it learns your typing style and then understands what you type without the requirement for actually hitting the right keys.
I can type "ky nt gromf koe stw uoi" and it will become "hi my friend how are you".
This makes typing on a phone extremely fast.
The problem is that other keyboards that claim to have similar features are not able to understand my typing gibberish.
In essence, I and many other Swiftkey users have trained ourselves to no longer be able to use any other keyboard.
Is this worth being mad over? In my opinion yes, a product loved by many being purchased by a big company who then close down support avenues is always a good reason to be mad.
I don't use my phone keyboard much, but as a programmer my keyboard definitely feels like an extension of my body, one that literally allows me to get my work done. Many craftspeople care deeply about the tools they use. I can totally see how someone would feel similarly about something like this.
Of course the keyboard is an important tool, but first of all, in this case it's not even a real keyboard, the second thing is how a lot of people constantly feel the need to behave like someone was hurting them if someone closes a bloody website. I mean, of course an keyboard can be an important tool for you, but feeling like an extension of your body is just overdramatic language, go to any construction site and ask the guys if they think their hammer or saw fells like an extension of their body, they probably look at you like you're from Mars. This whole techszene just likes to overdramtize things.
I'm just going to pop in tomorrow and replace your keyboard with a new Dvorak layout one. OK with you?
That's hardly comparable. The SwiftKey keyboard is still fully functional. Yes, you can tell it to integrate with Bing if you want and they removed a forum for feature requests. What is the big fuzz exactly?
Not a problem for me, I can type on either at equal speed. The biggest problem is using vim.
I will be impressed, though, if you can find (or make) Dvorak keycaps for my keyboard that match its current style.
I will be impressed, though, if you can find (or make) Dvorak keycaps for my keyboard that match its current style.
I don't know anything about the author, but some people spend a lot of time online because they are handicapped and can't get out much.
Such people can be pretty miserable, sometimes all the time, thus prone to venting.
They would stop if you could fix their broken body and broken lives.
Such people can be pretty miserable, sometimes all the time, thus prone to venting.
They would stop if you could fix their broken body and broken lives.
You start with a caveat, then make a set of unfounded assumptions, lead to an unfounded conclusion and equally unfounded resolution.
While you use qualifiers like "some" and "can" throughout, I don't really see any substance to the comment.
Basically, a single person existing that does match your comment makes your comment true, without any hint at how pervasive this might be.
While you use qualifiers like "some" and "can" throughout, I don't really see any substance to the comment.
Basically, a single person existing that does match your comment makes your comment true, without any hint at how pervasive this might be.
Fifteen to twenty percent of people self identify as handicapped.
There used to be -- and may still be -- hash tags and such on Twitter to help such people find each other.
I'm very seriously handicapped and don't get out much. It's why I spend so much time online.
It's called testimony -- giving a voice for a topic I have a lot of firsthand knowledge of. I have no idea why you are attacking it so aggressively.
There used to be -- and may still be -- hash tags and such on Twitter to help such people find each other.
I'm very seriously handicapped and don't get out much. It's why I spend so much time online.
It's called testimony -- giving a voice for a topic I have a lot of firsthand knowledge of. I have no idea why you are attacking it so aggressively.
I don't identify as handicapped, but I have RSI issues in my wrists and need a special keyboard to type. When it occasionally breaks and needs repair, I am devastated. When occasionally someone gets the idea to make a joke about it (like once someone joked about pouring wine on it) - I am not at all amused. My keyboard does feel a sort of limb.
It's called _testimony_ only iff you say it is you that are in that particular boat.
As such, I thank you for sharing your story: that requires courage for sure, and can certainly give support for any one point! If that use of qualifiers is what gives you that courage, take my apology for being so "aggressive".
I was simply suggesting to avoid generalizing, even (especially) when starting from your own experience. Your comment suggested that all the handicapped people might have the same reasons and same feelings, which I felt inappropriate.
As such, I thank you for sharing your story: that requires courage for sure, and can certainly give support for any one point! If that use of qualifiers is what gives you that courage, take my apology for being so "aggressive".
I was simply suggesting to avoid generalizing, even (especially) when starting from your own experience. Your comment suggested that all the handicapped people might have the same reasons and same feelings, which I felt inappropriate.
I can't win for losing. If I state upfront that I'm x demographic -- poor, handicapped, formerly homeless, a woman -- someone will have a cow about me oversharing.* If I don't, someone will have some other issue with my observations or opinions.
Note to self:
Next life, be a rich white male or some shit.
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35549294
Note to self:
Next life, be a rich white male or some shit.
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35549294
Yeah, you are probably right: communication is sometimes (always?) hard, especially when only done in writing: my apologies for not seeing through your original message.
In retrospect, you didn't do anything wrong, and I read too much into it: my bad, so sorry!
In retrospect, you didn't do anything wrong, and I read too much into it: my bad, so sorry!
People react to things differently. They also aren't complaining "about everything." They're highlighting a specific problem with a specific product and using a single exterior example to make their point.
While they had a strong reaction to this that was over the top at points, I still feel it was a worthwhile thread documenting a new problem.
While they had a strong reaction to this that was over the top at points, I still feel it was a worthwhile thread documenting a new problem.
Yeah that was painful to read. I spend a good 15 hours a day on my PC but I can't imagine writing something like that about some website.
Definitely, people can start by staying offline and not complaining about people complaining
The person is commenting on this and twitter. That's not everything, they aren't everyone, and you don't know the amount of time they spend online.
What you are doing is an overly simplistic deflection
What you are doing is an overly simplistic deflection
> People need to take a break.
There you go. But we need to go a step further.
They need to get off altogether rather than being terminally online or addicted to social media. In regards to this, it is very sad to see of all things, many on that site are throwing a tantrum....
There you go. But we need to go a step further.
They need to get off altogether rather than being terminally online or addicted to social media. In regards to this, it is very sad to see of all things, many on that site are throwing a tantrum....
...over a keyboard.
I hope this forum was better than the typical
"Welcome to the Microsoft Support Community! Thank you for your excellent question. As a Microsoft MVP (Mostly Vacuous Pinhead) I am more than happy to help with your problem. I am sure this will help:
"Welcome to the Microsoft Support Community! Thank you for your excellent question. As a Microsoft MVP (Mostly Vacuous Pinhead) I am more than happy to help with your problem. I am sure this will help:
<useless copy-pasted non-solution>
1. Set fire to your PC
2. Give up on life
Car-dependent societies and a complete lack of third places will do that to you, with children being the hardest-hit.
I felt that way about Swype. Personally didn't like this one.
Being terminally online and complaining about other people complaining is an even less healthy way of life, yet I keep seeing more and more of it as time goes by.
the qoute is pretty extreme when you think about it. Don't get me wrong, as I can rationalize what is being said but on the other hand, it makes me want to go outside and enjoy some sunshine.
On another note, I have just installed two alternative keyboards today to play around with. OpenBoard and AnySoftKeyboard both with some nice features.
On another note, I have just installed two alternative keyboards today to play around with. OpenBoard and AnySoftKeyboard both with some nice features.
What are you proposing? Go off the grid? It's a bit difficult when your tech overlords are forcing you on to their platforms using any trick they can. Do you realise how difficult it is to not use a smartphone, especially for young people, these days? Or perhaps you just expect people to submit to their tech overlords and accept the tools they are allowed to use?
Average Mastodon user.
dustedcodes(14)
unlike you, getting upset about people caring about something they use a lot?
sounds very healthy.
sounds very healthy.
Says a person who is online...
Drinking one glass of wine is not the same as being passed out on the sidewalk at noon.
But the person is complaining about people complaining. I find it ironic.
Why do we feel this need to disect everything
Probably for the same reason people feel the need to complain about people complaining... and then complain about people complaining about people complaining, and so on.
That feels like some sort of survivor bias.
The majority of people didn't feel that and passed on by without commenting.
Analysis is the most straightforward path to resolving disagreement. Get enough people talking and you'll have disagreement. The immediate result is analysis.
This is not an analysis at all, people online have been misusing the word "ironic" forever. Almost nobody uses it correctly.
It's a way to shut down debate while pretending to use a legitimate debating technique. A tale as old as the internet itself.
It's a way to shut down debate while pretending to use a legitimate debating technique. A tale as old as the internet itself.
I was responding to the question, "why do we feel the need to pick everything apart?", not this other comment. I'd point out your response was an analysis of the use of the term "irony" in online discourse.
[deleted]
blitzar(3)
[deleted]
Are tech companies that desperate that they need to do this? Maybe if it was bigger company, but this can't be a threat to Microsoft....They're all acting like starving rats feeding on their children.
That's the problem with bigger companies, usually there is a perfectly good explanation in the context of the company but we will never hear about it. Could be as simple as the person who moderated that forum being laid off.
Microsoft does this stuff. Like forcing Minecraft accounts to migrate onto MSFT accounts, which locked out a lot of older players by requiring the original email address used to be verified. There's no use in complaining about it; you should just anticipate that MSFT ruins everything it touches and get ready to switch.
What good is monopoly power if you don't use it? They're just squeezing the stone for every drop they can get.
The people who can fix user complaints and business disparities like this in Fortune 500 companies do not care because 1) they can't see them, and 2) they are actively incentivized to not care about it.
All it needs is one of them doing that, then all others must follow to remain competitive, if not just for being able to put the same bullet points in products advertising.
Saturn Devouring His Son.
I used Swiftkey until recently, but the delay on bringing up the keyboard was annoying me too much. I couldn't justify changing phones just because of SwiftKey so instead I just went back to the default Google keyboard.
I'm still adapting weeks after changing, the most annoying issue is that the Japanese keyboard on Gboard has the key layout a bit different that the English one, so I cannot touch type on it like I did before.
I'm still adapting weeks after changing, the most annoying issue is that the Japanese keyboard on Gboard has the key layout a bit different that the English one, so I cannot touch type on it like I did before.
The features that kept me on swift key is that is multilanguage, Google keyboard you have to switch to the correct language beforehand. I'm pretty worried that SwiftKey is now doing big nonos like sending my data around, but Google keyboard is absolutely unfit for my usage.
Gboard does have multi-language now. In fact, I think it's better at that, simply because SwiftKey obsessively capitalizes the word i, even if you try to delete that suggestion. That's one of the main reasons I recently switched away from it, plus the fact that if you put the cursor in the middle of a word SwiftKey moves out to the end, and the fact that SwiftKey frequently hangs for several seconds in the work profile.
Google Keyboard is multilanguage too, if you mean having multiple languages active at the same time and the swiping/hints responding to both. I'm currently typing this comment using it.
Up to two languages, not quite enough
You can block its network access from the settings on Android.
Microsoft deleted the public support forum for Office365 software like Powerpoint online: a product that makes money. Of course those who pay are rarely the primary users, so why hear their voice…
Oh dear, I literally just had a dream last night about how MS was gonna build GPT into the keyboard and even in my dream I thought "what a complete lack of reflection that must have taken, to think this is a good idea."
Guess I'm on the search for a new keyboard as well then. le sigh...
Guess I'm on the search for a new keyboard as well then. le sigh...
What a predictive keyboard does is exactly what GPT does and vice versa, so it makes a whole lot of sense to use it. A predictive keyboard is an even more direct application of GPT than ChatGPT is.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if current keyboards implemented some kind of a GPT-light network. It is just the perfect tool for the job.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if current keyboards implemented some kind of a GPT-light network. It is just the perfect tool for the job.
Ive had Bing integrated into my keyboard for about a week now and it's not a big deal. I see a Bing logo at the top next to the "GIF" button, and that's it. If I don't press it, it's like it isn't even there.
The Android version also just updated and there is a nice big fat Bing logo in the settings bar.
It's gross how every Microsoft product eventually starts to try to upsell Edge or Bing.
It's gross how every Microsoft product eventually starts to try to upsell Edge or Bing.
It's been my experience that not much satisfying happens on Microsoft web-based support forums anyway.
I'd go further and say that they're actually the bane of my existence when I'm looking for help/pointers on, for example, Windows issues. Inevitably somebody will have posted the same issue on one of the public Windows support forums, but the only responses will be completely low value and irrelevant nonsense[0] from the swarm of numbskulls who seem to inhabit these places. Almost never do I actually find any useful information, but these places pollute the first page, sometimes the first few pages, of search results on Google et al. Very frustrating.
[0] E.g., suggesting that the user needs to completely reinstall Windows to fix an issue that could be dealt with by a simple registry hack, or similar.
[0] E.g., suggesting that the user needs to completely reinstall Windows to fix an issue that could be dealt with by a simple registry hack, or similar.
As soon as Microsoft bought Swiftkey, I switched off of it. Microsoft has such a bad privacy reputation that I couldn't trust it anymore.
Which do you use instead?
Samsung keyboard on my phone (because I'm already forced to trust that software). SimpleKeyboard on the kids' tablets because it's OSS. Neither is as good as Swiftkey but security is not binary.
So what is the new hip keyboard for Android? Ps, I don't like Gboard.
Google Pinyin Input was recently discontinued.
They want you to use Gboard instead, but the functionality is worse. I don't get it.
Google Pinyin Input made it very easy to enter punctuation, by doing a minor downward swipe on the virtual key associated with the symbol you want. (You can also swipe up on keys to quickly produce capital letters.) On Gboard, as far as I can tell, you have to do a long press instead, which is a gigantic pain.
I resorted to pulling the apk off my old phone and manually installing it on my new phone, but this feels ridiculous.
Can anyone recommend (a) a pinyin input method that doesn't force you to long press for punctuation, or (b) a setting I've overlooked in any major input method that removes the insane long press requirement?
They want you to use Gboard instead, but the functionality is worse. I don't get it.
Google Pinyin Input made it very easy to enter punctuation, by doing a minor downward swipe on the virtual key associated with the symbol you want. (You can also swipe up on keys to quickly produce capital letters.) On Gboard, as far as I can tell, you have to do a long press instead, which is a gigantic pain.
I resorted to pulling the apk off my old phone and manually installing it on my new phone, but this feels ridiculous.
Can anyone recommend (a) a pinyin input method that doesn't force you to long press for punctuation, or (b) a setting I've overlooked in any major input method that removes the insane long press requirement?
SwiftKey was such a good keyboard app. It's a pity it's being ruined by Microsoft.
I do hope someone will create a good keyboard with a sustainable business model: charge a fair subscription price.
I do hope someone will create a good keyboard with a sustainable business model: charge a fair subscription price.
How is it "being ruined"? I use it every day and it works fine.
What's exactly going on? As a user who never used SwiftKey and only know that it's a mobile 3rd party keyboard, I'm kind of lost what's the issue about. ELI5?
Remotely managed user disillusioned when confronted with an example of how their, and their managements' incentives misalign.
Damn, the auto update got to me before I read this. Is there a way to rollback the update that bingifies swiftkey on Android?
Uninstall it, sideload the version you want from
https://apkpure.com/microsoft-swiftkey-keyboard/com.touchtyp...
(be mindful this site is not the official repo and a keyboard is a critical app).
(be mindful this site is not the official repo and a keyboard is a critical app).
Just don't accept the TOS that are presented to you when you click the Bing button. Also, you can just hide that whole bar with the >< button on the left
You aren't in control of your smartphone. Microsoft/Google are. The FSF have been saying this for decades. It doesn't matter how "open source" Android is. It's not designed to put you in control.
I mean it does matter that Android is open source, but only in the sense that you can install an OS that doesn't contain that much Google stuff.
Microsoft? Using the Embrace Extend Extinguish tactic? On a project that many people use? Truly unheard of.
I stopped using it when I found it was draining my S10e battery. Strange behaviour.
I've been fighting for probably a full decade at this point to get Swiftkey to stop turning "ok" into "OK" and making me look like either a geriatric or a lunatic. It doesn't matter how many times I tell it to stop predicting it it keeps happening.
Similarly: I cannot convince Swiftkey to stop correcting "whole" into "whore". L and R are next to each other on the Dvorak layout, so I get it, but it does not matter how many times I tell it to never correct to whore, it for some reason always prefers that over whole...
It is baffling to me that they have the "don't predict this" button that clearly doesn't actually do that. It has behaved this way forever, so it must be behaving as intended or else they would've fixed it by now. But I can't puzzle out what that button is actually intended to do.
Those are a lot of conclusions to draw from a 404 error
Oh well. Nothing to see here. Another explosion in a rabbit hole.
Anyway moving on...
Anyway moving on...
[deleted]
icemelt8(1)
It feels to me like there is a market opportunity for a new keyboard app manufacturer here. Possibly along similar ethical lines as Mozilla/Firefox (there's bundled stuff because someone has to pay the bills, but it's only so much effort to turn it off).
Pretty much no revenue opportunities.
I was the PM for a keyboard app with millions of downloads and was the most downloaded keyboard app in India. But there is no way to monetize it.
Early on, the OEMs would pay us to have our keyboards in their images as it would give them more customizability, better local language support and end-to-end localization. The rev share on each device sold, was enough to keep the product funded.
But post 2014, the OEMs started asking for fees to add our keyboard into their images. And instead of positive funds, we started to go into negative and had to pivot away from being just a keyboard.
Anyway, right now there is not much market opportunity in this space. Maybe with AI being ubiquitous, a new wave of keyboard apps will come in - but again right now the economics don't make sense.
I was the PM for a keyboard app with millions of downloads and was the most downloaded keyboard app in India. But there is no way to monetize it.
Early on, the OEMs would pay us to have our keyboards in their images as it would give them more customizability, better local language support and end-to-end localization. The rev share on each device sold, was enough to keep the product funded.
But post 2014, the OEMs started asking for fees to add our keyboard into their images. And instead of positive funds, we started to go into negative and had to pivot away from being just a keyboard.
Anyway, right now there is not much market opportunity in this space. Maybe with AI being ubiquitous, a new wave of keyboard apps will come in - but again right now the economics don't make sense.
I'm afraid I must agree with your experience on the revenue opportunities angle.
I wish we were in a world where several good keyboards on mobile, like shells/terminals on desktop, existed just for the sake of making the world a better place and none of them needed integrating with Ads/Search Engines/AI etc. for the sake of generating revenue.
Even better, I wish we lived in a world where the programmers of such tools were well paid for their services, whether through philanthropy or government grants or something else.
I wish we were in a world where several good keyboards on mobile, like shells/terminals on desktop, existed just for the sake of making the world a better place and none of them needed integrating with Ads/Search Engines/AI etc. for the sake of generating revenue.
Even better, I wish we lived in a world where the programmers of such tools were well paid for their services, whether through philanthropy or government grants or something else.
> no way to monetize it
I don’t understand this. Where you giving it away?
I don’t understand this. Where you giving it away?
Our keyboard was free to the end users and we made our money from OEMs giving us a few cents for each device that came with our keyboard as a default app.
We also had a pro version, but as our app was focused on the Indian market, and the Indian users were not big on paid apps back in early 2010s, there's wasn't much revenue in that either.
We also had a pro version, but as our app was focused on the Indian market, and the Indian users were not big on paid apps back in early 2010s, there's wasn't much revenue in that either.
I'm really surprised there are no quality swipe keyboard options out there. Gboard is ok. I liked SwiftKey better a few years ago, but it degraded. But I'd pay for a swipe keyboard which solves a few issues I run into all the time: like not being great at detecting the space swipe, not showing the word alternatives consistently, not getting stuck in password entry mode, etc.
I tried a few of the available options and it seems like gboard and SwiftKey on top, then a huge chasm, then every other option, few of them likely low quality data stealers.
Please, do it well and take my money!
I tried a few of the available options and it seems like gboard and SwiftKey on top, then a huge chasm, then every other option, few of them likely low quality data stealers.
Please, do it well and take my money!