Dookie Demastered(dookiedemastered.com)
dookiedemastered.com
Dookie Demastered
https://www.dookiedemastered.com/
216 comments
We have reached an era where JPEG artifacts are used as an ornament - like artifacts from film photography, vinyls and more.
Perhaps spotting that in a demastering project is bending the rules a bit, but still - I like how it indicates that our tastes and internet speeds have changed.
Perhaps spotting that in a demastering project is bending the rules a bit, but still - I like how it indicates that our tastes and internet speeds have changed.
Yep. JPEG artifacts are now a signature of the medium.
"Whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD distortion, the jitteriness of digital video, the crap sound of 8-bit - all of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided. It’s the sound of failure: so much modern art is the sound of things going out of control, of a medium pushing to its limits and breaking apart. The distorted guitar sound is the sound of something too loud for the medium supposed to carry it. The blues singer with the cracked voice is the sound of an emotional cry too powerful for the throat that releases it. The excitement of grainy film, of bleached-out black and white, is the excitement of witnessing events too momentous for the medium assigned to record them." - Brian Eno
"Whatever you now find weird, ugly, uncomfortable and nasty about a new medium will surely become its signature. CD distortion, the jitteriness of digital video, the crap sound of 8-bit - all of these will be cherished and emulated as soon as they can be avoided. It’s the sound of failure: so much modern art is the sound of things going out of control, of a medium pushing to its limits and breaking apart. The distorted guitar sound is the sound of something too loud for the medium supposed to carry it. The blues singer with the cracked voice is the sound of an emotional cry too powerful for the throat that releases it. The excitement of grainy film, of bleached-out black and white, is the excitement of witnessing events too momentous for the medium assigned to record them." - Brian Eno
vinyls
Stay away from my shellacs and waxes!
Stay away from my shellacs and waxes!
I noticed this too. I love this kind of thing so much. I wish more people had the time, money and patience for polish like this.
It’s starting to get way easier these days with the help of Claude.ai and Cursor.ai.
I find it’s easier to pay much more focus to details when the iteration process is faster.
I did not see it at first. Once I did, I was entranced just scrolling about to see it again.
The whole site is polished to a high degree. Lqbor of love, just like all the quirky items rhey have to loved just as much.
The whole site is polished to a high degree. Lqbor of love, just like all the quirky items rhey have to loved just as much.
Nice, I was wondering if they were actually making use of progressive JPEG or just switching between images.
This is the best thing I've seen in a long time.
When an album hits a big milestone like its 30th anniversary
Oof, so this is what getting old feels like. Yikes.
Crank it as long as you want with “All By Myself,” arranged for the first time on a hand-cranked music box.
chef's kiss.
When an album hits a big milestone like its 30th anniversary
Oof, so this is what getting old feels like. Yikes.
Crank it as long as you want with “All By Myself,” arranged for the first time on a hand-cranked music box.
chef's kiss.
> this toothbrush plays Green Day’s “Pulling Teeth” while you brush. Finally, you can put Dookie in your mouth (not recommended).
The mere mention by the title had the classic phrase "Do you have the time..." blaring in my head as if it were thirty years ago, even if the last time I listened to that was at least a decade a ago. The nostalgia, right in the feels.
I hadn’t listened in Dookie in a very long time. Then my kid and I were talking about music and she wanted to know what kinds of music I streamed back in high school. :)
That turned into a talk about CDs and led into listening to Dookie with my eight year old. The album has aged very well. As an adult, I find that different songs are more appealing now than they were as a teen and in other cases, age has warped the meaning of the songs.
But as an album, it stands up really well. There are some other well known albums from the nineties that really haven’t stood up as well. I’d recommend another listen!
Though, “I declare I don’t care no more.” :)
That turned into a talk about CDs and led into listening to Dookie with my eight year old. The album has aged very well. As an adult, I find that different songs are more appealing now than they were as a teen and in other cases, age has warped the meaning of the songs.
But as an album, it stands up really well. There are some other well known albums from the nineties that really haven’t stood up as well. I’d recommend another listen!
Though, “I declare I don’t care no more.” :)
As someone who was a teen about ten years ago I can confess it was still very relevant and I even got its CD (though honestly I listened to it mostly on my iPod Touch)
I'm 30 now, there's nothing I wanted more than the iPod Touch but I think I made the sales pitch to my parents too hard because I was very excited it had a web browser. I grew up without even basic cable but I did eventually get an iPod classic which I still miss having. I think it eventually met it's fate in the washing machine.
> There are some other well known albums from the nineties that really haven’t stood up as well.
Some day Limp Bizkit will get the recognition they deserves.
Some day Limp Bizkit will get the recognition they deserves.
A crimes against humanity tribunal at the Hague?
I will say I saw them in concert accidentally once (attending for the headliner, I had no idea they were also playing). I had no real interest in them musically, no hate or anything just no real interest, but wow. They were incredibly good performers compared to the 30 or so other rock bands I'd seen in my youth, easily top 3 performance wise. It really changed my view on the impact a live performance can have on your perceptions of a band and its music.
100 gecs is more or less a Limp Bizkit tribute band IMO.
finally someone says it. nickelback too
"Nookie Demastered"?
American Idiot also had it's 20th anniversary, I ordered the CD/bluray box set that comes out later this month.
Another strange part of getting old:
The gap between Dookie and American Idiot seems significantly longer to me than the gap between American Idiot and today, yet it's half as long :/
The gap between Dookie and American Idiot seems significantly longer to me than the gap between American Idiot and today, yet it's half as long :/
I notice this one a lot. My sense of time is attached to how much I’ve changed, and my rate of change—-at least for music consumption—-attenuates as I age, dilating time. A couple years can seem like an eon when you’re 14 and each new album transforms you. Now a decade of music feels static and irrelevant and I barely notice it go by.
Related: it sure seemed like the mid-90s were special for rock music; I was 13 when Dookie came out and I felt (still feel) like I was in a sort of alternative renaissance, just crammed with amazing new music. But I’m sure every generation feels that way about whatever happened to be popular when they were teenagers.
Related: it sure seemed like the mid-90s were special for rock music; I was 13 when Dookie came out and I felt (still feel) like I was in a sort of alternative renaissance, just crammed with amazing new music. But I’m sure every generation feels that way about whatever happened to be popular when they were teenagers.
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Shockingly apt timing.
Well, the first time around was Bush's re-election.
It’s pretty wild that the Republican Party has transformed so much that GWB and Cheney don’t vote for it anymore. It’s only been 16 years since they left office. (Cheney is officially supporting Harris, and Bush clearly is not on Team MAGA either.)
This is off topic, but I don't see Bush/Cheney as very different from Trump, and there is a straight line between those. The biggest contrast is that Trump jettisoned decorum and politeness. Bush was outwardly polite as he enacted the same kind of policy. I mean, the appointment of Samuel Alito is a prime example. Look how the Bush court appointments are unleashed now that they've got a few more like-minded colleagues.
Well after Bush and his comrades Dick and Colon (nee Cheney; Powell), we had the TEA PARTY MOVEMENTS whose thesis was very simple: "politicians, as people, they suck, 400 million are suffering for their aggrandizing shittiness, lets get some people in there to fuck some shit up". And so they did, and they did. And this become the new norm. And now DC had been made even further ugly and toxic. Then Trump appeared, and he basically said the same exact thing as the tea party movement "Draiiinnn the Swap!!", and now - yes - even more ugly and toxic.
All of these has been fueled by social media, which to reduce some of the complexities, determined that "if we divide and polarize american politics we make boatloads of money"
All of these has been fueled by social media, which to reduce some of the complexities, determined that "if we divide and polarize american politics we make boatloads of money"
Yeah, I don't know why Trump is seen as such an iconoclast and anti-establishment type when politically he's a boilerplate establishment Fox News conservative. His personality is really the only thing that distinguishes him from the pack.
There's a big practical difference between chewing coca leaves and smoking crack. Also, the shift in personality and tone from Bush to Trump are... not small. The inconoclast and anti-establishment things are intentional, effective and, as you note, somewhat hypocritical branding on the part of Trump's PR team. After sitting through a few of his full length >1hr "speeches", it's incredible (in the strongest, most literal sense of that word) that he can even exist as a viable political candidate. If he were magically teleported back in time to the GW Bush years, current Trump would be laughed out of the room in pretty much any political setting.
> If he were magically teleported back in time to the GW Bush years, current Trump would be laughed out of the room in pretty much any political setting.
That's really not how I see it. Trump sits on the shoulders of those who came before and set the stage for the Trump policy. My Alito example above is an instructive one. Bush can be seen as laying a 20 year foundation towards overturning Roe or the Chevron doctrine. I remember when Roberts was appointed, mainstream press talked up how moderate and reasonable he was, but I never bought it -- and how we see he isn't.
The rhetoric appeals to the base... But that base got radicalized by prior eras. Decades of complaining about big government. Fox News demonizing Pelosi and "San Francisco values". Karl Rove's permanent campaign mode. Much of that discourse was fully formed in 2004. The Bush people knew to reign it in sometimes, that is the difference.
That's really not how I see it. Trump sits on the shoulders of those who came before and set the stage for the Trump policy. My Alito example above is an instructive one. Bush can be seen as laying a 20 year foundation towards overturning Roe or the Chevron doctrine. I remember when Roberts was appointed, mainstream press talked up how moderate and reasonable he was, but I never bought it -- and how we see he isn't.
The rhetoric appeals to the base... But that base got radicalized by prior eras. Decades of complaining about big government. Fox News demonizing Pelosi and "San Francisco values". Karl Rove's permanent campaign mode. Much of that discourse was fully formed in 2004. The Bush people knew to reign it in sometimes, that is the difference.
In this case I'm talking strictly about his persona, on-stage performance, and overall "vibe". To an extent, these traits are orthogonal to his claimed policy/politics in the traditional sense, which I agree are basically a continuation and in particular areas an amplification of earlier trends in the Republican party. Eg, I grew up in Houston in the 80s and 90s with parents that listened to Rush Limbaugh on a regular basis, so the general direction of intent isn't unexpected. The way in which that intent is expressed is however well outside what would have ever made it to the "main stage" 20-30 years ago. It's a culmination of decades of propagandic ground laying. I suppose "any political setting" was too broad a claim. I was implicitly ignoring anything short of running for national office.
Two things stand out:
1) Positions and messaging strategy. Trump tends to take up the positions you hear Republican voters talk about over a coffee at the diner or over a beer on an aluminum-hull outboard motor fishing boat. As with Democrats, typical Republican planks aren’t terribly close to what their voters want, so (Trump proved) you can win elections by targeting this unmet demand directly.
“Why don’t they just build a wall?”; “Fucking NAFTA, sold us all out”; “gotta do something about that trade deficit with China” and/or other comments on restricting trade with China; “Obamacare sucks” but also kinda vaguely supporting something to fix healthcare (this muddled set of positions came out rather directly in Trump’s speeches—sometimes it’d sound like he was about to advocate single payer); “we should stop being the world police for free” and/or “Europe’s freeloading on NATO”; lots of complaints about illegal immigration’s and crime generally; Washington corruption (“drain the swamp!”); et c.
If you know many Republican voters, not politicians, you may recognize that as stuff that’d inform their wishlist. Trump heard that, and just… did exactly that, turned around and said exactly those things instead of taking up the typical Republican platform. Got him elected. He even sort-of followed through on some of it. This is true for at least the first election, his positions this time seem to have gone a bit more tail-wagging-the-dog (creating issues and demand for a particular solution to the created issue, through messaging, rather than going to where voters already are on existing issues)
2) Relatedly, and especially because he did follow through on some of it, he’s the only big two party Presidential candidate since perhaps 1980 to not be fully on-board with neoliberalism. That’s definitely remarkable. Vance alluded to this at one point in the recent debate.
(Disclaimer because it’s a polarizing topic: observation without condemnation should not be taken as support)
1) Positions and messaging strategy. Trump tends to take up the positions you hear Republican voters talk about over a coffee at the diner or over a beer on an aluminum-hull outboard motor fishing boat. As with Democrats, typical Republican planks aren’t terribly close to what their voters want, so (Trump proved) you can win elections by targeting this unmet demand directly.
“Why don’t they just build a wall?”; “Fucking NAFTA, sold us all out”; “gotta do something about that trade deficit with China” and/or other comments on restricting trade with China; “Obamacare sucks” but also kinda vaguely supporting something to fix healthcare (this muddled set of positions came out rather directly in Trump’s speeches—sometimes it’d sound like he was about to advocate single payer); “we should stop being the world police for free” and/or “Europe’s freeloading on NATO”; lots of complaints about illegal immigration’s and crime generally; Washington corruption (“drain the swamp!”); et c.
If you know many Republican voters, not politicians, you may recognize that as stuff that’d inform their wishlist. Trump heard that, and just… did exactly that, turned around and said exactly those things instead of taking up the typical Republican platform. Got him elected. He even sort-of followed through on some of it. This is true for at least the first election, his positions this time seem to have gone a bit more tail-wagging-the-dog (creating issues and demand for a particular solution to the created issue, through messaging, rather than going to where voters already are on existing issues)
2) Relatedly, and especially because he did follow through on some of it, he’s the only big two party Presidential candidate since perhaps 1980 to not be fully on-board with neoliberalism. That’s definitely remarkable. Vance alluded to this at one point in the recent debate.
(Disclaimer because it’s a polarizing topic: observation without condemnation should not be taken as support)
When “Out Come The Wolves” by Rancid hit 20 years I was starting to feel my age.
I just saw Rancid, Smashing Pumpkins and Green Day. All on the same tour. It was amazing to have that much of the first half of my life in one stadium.
Green Day are still in their prime in terms of a live show. Yeah it’s not 3 kids packing a basement anymore, but they absolutely crushed Dookie in their 50s. I felt not old for a couple of hours.
Green Day are still in their prime in terms of a live show. Yeah it’s not 3 kids packing a basement anymore, but they absolutely crushed Dookie in their 50s. I felt not old for a couple of hours.
Me too (Oracle Park), and I also relate to the not feeling old for a couple of hours - except the few times when I saw parents bring their kids to this show, and the kids were definitely not older than like, nine or ten, and were (!) mouthing the words to songs from Dookie.
"Energy" is 35. Feeling old yet? If so, go to the Punk Rock Museum in Vegas. They did us right.
I love this album. So many catchy songs. I prefer it to dookie too.
Everything after it was kind of a disaster though. Although I do have a soft spot for Indestructible.
Life Won't Wait and 2000 were fun!
Easily top 5 punk album of all time.
Not punk. Punk is about being bad at your instrument and looking ugly and being the underdog and still creating a community. When Dookie came out, every highschool and college kid was lined up to buy it, it had constant airplay, and was blasting in every classroom and dorm room. That's not punk: that is 100% mainstream pop. Which is Green Day in a nutshell. Commidified dissent x100.
I was talking about And out come the wolves, and still punk to me. Pixies is punk, replacements is still punk to me. No need to be a purist.
College Alternative is not Punk.
I went to Pixies concerts when I was at BU in the 80's. They were a rich white kid college band.
Punk was a very specific movement.
It's like saying, "Yeah, impressionism is same as Cubism." No. It isn't. Don't rewrite history because it suits your invented personality.
I went to Pixies concerts when I was at BU in the 80's. They were a rich white kid college band.
Punk was a very specific movement.
It's like saying, "Yeah, impressionism is same as Cubism." No. It isn't. Don't rewrite history because it suits your invented personality.
Oh wow, I realized it's turning 30 next year and my back just started hurting.
we definitely gonna rediscover what de-mastering means, when AI finally gets to master everything instead of us. can't wait for a wave of punk-pixel-human-in-the-wrong-loop-nostalgy much stronger than vaporwave.
They really went all out on these...
"A preloved Teddy comes with a cassette tape featuring an eight-channel recording of “Chump” including synchronized eye and snout movements."
"This fully-playable version of “Welcome To Paradise” will immerse you in the world of a small apartment in Oakland, California. Search out the record to play the full 8-bit rendition of your favorite song."
Totally impressed and amazed.
"A preloved Teddy comes with a cassette tape featuring an eight-channel recording of “Chump” including synchronized eye and snout movements."
"This fully-playable version of “Welcome To Paradise” will immerse you in the world of a small apartment in Oakland, California. Search out the record to play the full 8-bit rendition of your favorite song."
Totally impressed and amazed.
Absolutely incredible product. I don't have the $99 to splurge on this but it was very enticing :)
You enter a lottery to buy the 1 Ruxpin that was built. You can probably get more than your money back if you don't want to keep it.
>eight-channel recording of “Chump” including synchronized eye and snout movements
Am I understanding this correctly to mean that some of the audio channels on a Teddy Ruxpin cassette are silent tracks that control the motors in the toy? That's kind of interesting. I wonder if there are any other examples of a custom Ruxpin track being made . . .
Edit: comment directly below this one addresses this.
Am I understanding this correctly to mean that some of the audio channels on a Teddy Ruxpin cassette are silent tracks that control the motors in the toy? That's kind of interesting. I wonder if there are any other examples of a custom Ruxpin track being made . . .
Edit: comment directly below this one addresses this.
unbelievable tbh this had to have been an insane amount of work
Yeah, the teddy bear singing "I don't know you, but I think I hate you /
You're the reason for my misery" and the bass singing "I am one of those melodramatic fools, neurotic to the bone no doubt about it" are my favorites. "Longview" would have sounded... interesting too coming from the bear, but I guess they chickened out there and picked a device that couldn't reproduce the lyrics :)
Yes, this is officially endorsed[1] by Green Day. Very cool.
1. https://www.facebook.com/GreenDay/
1. https://www.facebook.com/GreenDay/
BTW - as you'd expect - the protocol for Ruxpin has been thoroughly reverse engineered.
IIRC - one audio channel is used for the speaker, and the other is a series of beeps which map to facial movements:
https://makezine.com/projects/chippy-ruxpin/
Back when I thought it might be a fun side hustle to make cool youtube videos (long ago put to bed), I thought about making videos of Ruxpin singing death metal and stuff.
It's been years since it seemed like it was worthwhile to make Youtube videos... And the situation is getting worse for creators year over year.
IIRC - one audio channel is used for the speaker, and the other is a series of beeps which map to facial movements:
https://makezine.com/projects/chippy-ruxpin/
Back when I thought it might be a fun side hustle to make cool youtube videos (long ago put to bed), I thought about making videos of Ruxpin singing death metal and stuff.
It's been years since it seemed like it was worthwhile to make Youtube videos... And the situation is getting worse for creators year over year.
> Back when I thought it might be a fun side hustle to make cool youtube videos (long ago put to bed), I thought about making videos of Ruxpin singing death metal and stuff.
It's been years since it seemed like it was worthwhile to make Youtube videos...
But should it? There used to be a time when people put this stuff on the internet for fun, not as a side huste or to "monetize" it... Maybe there's not so much money in this idea, but you can make people laugh for a few seconds.
But should it? There used to be a time when people put this stuff on the internet for fun, not as a side huste or to "monetize" it... Maybe there's not so much money in this idea, but you can make people laugh for a few seconds.
The potential for cute stuff to 'go viral' is severely diminished thanks to high production value click-bait and mainstream content. Big Content will drown out anything that hasn't gained tons of views already by promotion through other channels.
not 'beeps' so much as either Pulse-position modulation or FM to control the positions. I had a 'beta test' teddy before they were released, a friend of my father was a sculptor at WoW. I guess little me didn't want to give it back but had to, my Mom had to fight hard to find one at Christmas with a little inside info on delivery dates.
You can still make cool stuff for your own sake, you don't have to monetize every hobby.
My thinking was, maybe turning one of my hobbies into not a money sink. I still have 0 of those, but many in the red.
Had a bit of a look in a few places about the protocol, am I right in understanding the only way to do it with actual cassettes would be to find an 8 channel cassette recorder?
Here's what I was reading http://www.illiop.org/workings.html
[edited to say 8 channel to avoid confusion with 8 track]
Here's what I was reading http://www.illiop.org/workings.html
[edited to say 8 channel to avoid confusion with 8 track]
> answering machine
Tried and true distribution channel for hit music - see dial-a-song ((844) 387-6962) or the lovely "callin' oates" ((719) 266-2837)
Tried and true distribution channel for hit music - see dial-a-song ((844) 387-6962) or the lovely "callin' oates" ((719) 266-2837)
I love that... 13 years on that Callin' Oates is still alive.
"The hotline dates back to December 2011 and was created by Michael Selvidge and Reid Butler. Selvidge, who at the time worked for Twilio, told The Verge that he was required to build an app for the company and “Callin' Oates” was the result"
"The hotline dates back to December 2011 and was created by Michael Selvidge and Reid Butler. Selvidge, who at the time worked for Twilio, told The Verge that he was required to build an app for the company and “Callin' Oates” was the result"
These Brain guys giving MSCHF vibes (i.e. https://deadstartuptoys.com/)
This was my first thought when checking out their website and other projects. Just more digital than physical.
https://brain.wtf
https://brain.wtf
Hard to know if this was truly one of the best albums ever or if I just heard it at a super impressionable age, but the starting riff on When I Come Around gets me every time
It's very catchy, but not super-impressive musically IMO, however it had a huge impact on the scene and entire ecosystem at the time. Many other bands piggy-backed off their success, which I'm not sure happens as much in today's mega-single model. The band has gotten continually better while still staying relevant as well, which is really cool.
Green Day, especially the Dookie album, is kind of the epitome of "Yeah, you could have wrote it, but you didn't."
Not to mention, it's more than any single riff. It's the way the chorus ends then that little bass fill hits. And just the combination of the music with the lyrics. There's just that something that just gets everything right enough.
Take Basket Case, the song is pretty fucking simple musically. But it really serves as sort of click track to the vocals.
Taking simplicity and turning it into art takes skill.
Not to mention, it's more than any single riff. It's the way the chorus ends then that little bass fill hits. And just the combination of the music with the lyrics. There's just that something that just gets everything right enough.
Take Basket Case, the song is pretty fucking simple musically. But it really serves as sort of click track to the vocals.
Taking simplicity and turning it into art takes skill.
Everyone already said that about punk. We know it’s not Bach, but it’s not meant to be. It’s punk music - it’s not meant to be impressive musically.
Having said that... :)
... GD are very much above average musically when it comes to the popular music of the last 30 years. With those songwriting/performing chops, it's almost surprising they are a punk rock band.
Agree. Approximately rank 65 on best-selling albums of all time, but generally ranked in the 250-350 range on top 500 albums of all time. Such more subjective measures probably include sales/popularity as one of the ranking factors, so one could think that the album is of particularly below-expected "quality" to drag it down a few hundred positions.
It is both.
The story of Lookout Records being basically kept afloat by selling Kerplunk their first album after they left and blew up is also tragic/hilarious
The story of Lookout Records being basically kept afloat by selling Kerplunk their first album after they left and blew up is also tragic/hilarious
I personally prefer Insomniac. I used the opening riffs from Brain Stew as a ringtone during my on-call days, which ruined the track for a long time for me.
FWIW, when it came out I couldn't be bothered to listen to Green Day.
20 years later they became one of the favorites.
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This site is unexpectedly AWESOME. The frontend is so nice! The audio perfectly syncs up to a video when you open up the accordion, and I love the giant fonts. The best part though is the bitcrushing image carousels omg. The images get higher res as they're scrolled into view! https://imgur.com/a/TIWA9FW
Kudos to the designers and devs on this.
Kudos to the designers and devs on this.
I mean, when I first tried to open the website it just wouldn't load on my iPhone, so I tried on the laptop. It took ~10 seconds to load. I just assumed the bitcrushing was more issues with bandwidth and badly compressed images rather than a design choice. But your comment made me sit through everything to see if i could really get it. I guess I can recognize the work that went into this and the concept behind it... having said that, I am definitely not the target audience for this website and am struggling not to write an extremely negative comment about green day and 90s nostalgia
Always at least one every thread.
> Sorry but this site is trash because it took 10s to load on my One Laptop Per Child running LFS connected to my 3g hotspot. I literally cannot imagine why anyone could ever like this.
> Sorry but this site is trash because it took 10s to load on my One Laptop Per Child running LFS connected to my 3g hotspot. I literally cannot imagine why anyone could ever like this.
I physically chuckled
I thoroughly enjoyed it, this is as iconic of an album as I could imagine especially given my age at the time it was released, but all to say yes my iPhone feels like it’s going to catch fire after a couple minutes on the site lol
A few of their songs are really catchy, regardless of what you think of them (which I bet I agree with). Get over it.
Literal old man yells at cloud.
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The struggle was in vain.
I love everything about this from the band, album, unique distributions of the songs, to the website.
The raffle style business model stood out, so I read the terms. The terms weren't any more clear, they sort of lump sweepstakes/raffle together in section 14. Sweepstakes and raffles are high regulated but they are legally distinct, and raffles are treated as gambling in many jurisdictions.
I hope they have it all worked out, it’s an awesome distribution of music.
The raffle style business model stood out, so I read the terms. The terms weren't any more clear, they sort of lump sweepstakes/raffle together in section 14. Sweepstakes and raffles are high regulated but they are legally distinct, and raffles are treated as gambling in many jurisdictions.
I hope they have it all worked out, it’s an awesome distribution of music.
The Teddy Ruxpin with the sync'd movements is crazy impressive.
Having to provide an address and a credit card before the drawing is obnoxious, but it's led me to realize that if I really wanted things that played Green Day, I could make most of these things myself.
Having to provide an address and a credit card before the drawing is obnoxious, but it's led me to realize that if I really wanted things that played Green Day, I could make most of these things myself.
…yes, well, it’s quite common for people to pay others to do things that they could do themselves but would rather just do something else. That is kind of how the world works.
I don't think that the GP was necessarily complaining about the money, but about the inconvenience of the payment.
> Having to provide an address and a credit card
You don't usually complain about providing an address if the only factor is the payment/price.
I suspect the GP would have been fine paying if they had an extremely low-friction payment system (e.g. one-click).
> Having to provide an address and a credit card
You don't usually complain about providing an address if the only factor is the payment/price.
I suspect the GP would have been fine paying if they had an extremely low-friction payment system (e.g. one-click).
Also, in the case of pure art, paying for something trivial is like voting.
Basketcase on a Big Mouth Bass is exactly a world I want to live in.
I hope at least one of the five cylinders finds its way to the Cylinder Audio Archive: https://cylinders.library.ucsb.edu
No HitClip?? They could fit 2/3 of Coming Clean on one.
Edit: I completely missed it. Everything is now perfect.
Edit: I completely missed it. Everything is now perfect.
What's missing is the PXL-2000 tape with a video for one of the songs.
this is honestly the most impressive one here. i looked into doing hitclips with a friend and we basically tapped out once i found out how they work under the hood since there's no way they'd be cost effective.
Can you elaborate? I’ve always been fascinated by their existence.
Been discussed here before :) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24599366
This is one of the best things I have ever seen.
Hey, I still use my Mini-Disc deck! Sometimes!
Funnily enough, while I like the format and would be willing to get an official release of Dookie on it, it's not really worth the hassle for a single track, especially I could just as easily copy the album onto the format myself.
Funnily enough, while I like the format and would be willing to get an official release of Dookie on it, it's not really worth the hassle for a single track, especially I could just as easily copy the album onto the format myself.
Same! I feel somewhat offended that the version from the site is so lo-fi. MDs had fantastic quality, to my ears indistinguishable from CDs!
Edit: Aha, I see now, this is a mic'd recording of an MD player with a built in speaker.
Edit: Aha, I see now, this is a mic'd recording of an MD player with a built in speaker.
I remember seeing this album on MiniDisc in a store in Sweden circa 2000. If you do enough Googling you might be able to find a copy.
If you win the answering machine, just beware!
> Deletion:
> IrreversibleThis reminds me of how the web used to be, before everything was on social media.
The floppy version of "Having a Blast" is extremely nostalgic, it almost brought tears to my eyes. It's not just that the bitrate is low but also the speakers that came with PC's back then were just not that good. That sounds a hell of a lot like it used to in the 90's when I downloaded it from Spotify in a dial-up...
And then followed by Chump in the teddy bear, which also sounds incredibly nostalgic. I'm starting to feel like Dookie actually sounds better on a lofi arrangement...?
P.S. Yes, it does. Basket Case and She just ended this argument. What a blast!
And then followed by Chump in the teddy bear, which also sounds incredibly nostalgic. I'm starting to feel like Dookie actually sounds better on a lofi arrangement...?
P.S. Yes, it does. Basket Case and She just ended this argument. What a blast!
I actually won one of the 50 floppy copies of "Having a Blast"! If you send me an email at my HN username @gmail.com I'll send you a copy once I get it and rip it.
US only? Really should have put that front and center... before I spent 20 minutes deciding which drawing to enter :/
You could just proxy it through something like myus.com or the like
The prices are insane to me but to be fair the people that remember this from 30 years ago will probably have some spare money to spend if they’re still interested
Edit: well to be fair I see now that they are very limited
Edit: well to be fair I see now that they are very limited
There's a whole industry based on overpriced, "limited edition" nostalgic merch. Traditionally, "prints" (i.e. posters) for bands, movies, and even individual star trek episodes are huge. If you set the limit right, you're barely limiting sales at all while convincing people what they're buying is somehow more special and worth more money.
Art of the past is cheap and plentiful. Instead of doing multiple runs of an unlimited poster and bothering to keep it in stock, you do one run can call it "limited edition". Then you move on and mine the next anniversary.
This site is unusually slick for such a venture, but Dookie is a bigger deal than most albums, and the prices correspond to that.
Art of the past is cheap and plentiful. Instead of doing multiple runs of an unlimited poster and bothering to keep it in stock, you do one run can call it "limited edition". Then you move on and mine the next anniversary.
This site is unusually slick for such a venture, but Dookie is a bigger deal than most albums, and the prices correspond to that.
What they're buying _is_ more special and thus worth more. Green Day doesn't need more money but I love limited edition art from small artists.
Why? I know the art up in my home isn't up in everyone's home. I want my space to be unique. I want to be reminded of the tour, the festival, the album release, years later. I'm paying extra to support the artist I love, to have something more unique, and I'm pre paying for nostalgia in a decade.
My walls are covered in art you can't get anymore. I love it. I'll never walk into someone else's home and see that I have the same mass produced dreck up, and every piece of art on my walls is tied to a memory.
Why? I know the art up in my home isn't up in everyone's home. I want my space to be unique. I want to be reminded of the tour, the festival, the album release, years later. I'm paying extra to support the artist I love, to have something more unique, and I'm pre paying for nostalgia in a decade.
My walls are covered in art you can't get anymore. I love it. I'll never walk into someone else's home and see that I have the same mass produced dreck up, and every piece of art on my walls is tied to a memory.
And, doing the math, I can't imagine Green Day is making any money on this. sum(editions*price) = $3826 (though I'm not including the $20/item shipping). They probably spent more than that on the website. So they get publicity, some fans get some unique merch, and everybody else gets a fun joke
What exactly is insane about it? These are all hand created, very limited production items. They all took time to develop and test.
Apologies, a little slow here (probably because I was in high school when this album came out)...what are you actually buying for those listed prices?
You get exactly what it says. For example, if you put $99 down and win the draw, you can get an actual Teddy Ruxpin that sings Chump. Or for $79 you can win a Big Mouth Billie Bass that sings Basket Case. If you click through to the previews, there are videos.
I mean I thought that at first, then thought no way because that's just a one off product but yeah, that's incredible.
If anything the prices are far too low.
If anything the prices are far too low.
I just spent a stupid amount of money for a chance at getting Teddy Ruxpin. I’m feeling remarkably dumb right now but your words make me feel better.
You only pay if you win
I’m glad there are better adults on this site. In retrospect, I should really read.
Thanks for your help!
Thanks for your help!
The price doesn't get you the item, it gets you an entry into the drawing. You're buying a lottery ticket for $19 - $99 with unknown odds.
It sounds like they aren't all one-off.
>QUANTITIES VARY BY TRACK.
The could probably produce as many floppies as they want, while the player piano... probably not so much.
It sounds like they aren't all one-off.
>QUANTITIES VARY BY TRACK.
The could probably produce as many floppies as they want, while the player piano... probably not so much.
>How do EQL launches work?
>Free to enter. You only pay if you’re selected to purchase.
https://brain.runfair.com/en-US/us/brain-green-day-having-a-...
>Free to enter. You only pay if you’re selected to purchase.
https://brain.runfair.com/en-US/us/brain-green-day-having-a-...
Ah, that’s a much better deal. The wording on the main page was bad enough that I didn’t bother clicking through, since I wasn’t going to spend that much on a raffle.
I sent this to my blind friend and found out this page is fantastically inaccessible. The only keyboard usable thing on the whole page is the mailing list signup. A few <button> tags would go a long way here, as well as general semantic html. Axe devtools can't even find the buttons to report violations.
I'd take the whole album in 8-bit chiptunes in a heartbeat. Heck, I'd buy an old GameBoy if that was the only way to listen to it.
[deleted]
This is officially sanctioned by Green Day? interesting
Gotta stay relevant somehow!
For real. Ever since they sold out Petco Park ummm... last week... they've been super irrelevant.
A sold out Rolling Stones concert doesn't suddenly make them more relevant.. Green Day has the luxury of having a fan base that's not entirely dead of old age yet.
It doesn’t make them more relevant, but it does prove they’re not irrelevant, as GP suggested.
Idk, not many people can sell tens or hundreds of thousands of pricy tickets to see them do their thing for 90 minutes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Idk, not many people can sell tens or hundreds of thousands of pricy tickets to see them do their thing for 90 minutes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
To be relevant usually speaks to some kind of broad social impact or defining of a culture. You might argue Green Day did that back in the day, but do they really continue to? A lot of people willing to pay to be entertained by their performance does not imply relevancy.
[deleted]
Rolling Stones had a kickass new album this year
Remember recording the video for Basket Case off MTV on to VHS and recording it to PC using a Creative Video Spigot and SB16. Had to use postage stamp sized video at 10 or 15 FPS as my 486 could barley keep up. Wound up with a HUGE file in those days. My brother had a Teddy Ruxpin and I had a talking Alf. Was hilarious when you put some rock or metal tapes into them.
Re. the site - for some dumb reason I have to click on the page to get arrow and page up/down keys working as if the page needs to grab focus.
Re. the site - for some dumb reason I have to click on the page to get arrow and page up/down keys working as if the page needs to grab focus.
I LOVE everything about this! What a fun idea and a fresh look at a stand out album!
I should also take a moment to recognize how great the site design is as well.
I should also take a moment to recognize how great the site design is as well.
> The album that exploded punk rock 30 years ago, re-exploded onto obscure, obsolete, and inconvenient formats.
It's really strange. I probably don't get it.
I was there listening to punk rock and "grunge" rock in 1994. Back then nobody listened to music on his computer (the .mp3 format didn't even exist yet: at least not with that name) except if it was using the PC's CD drive, to play an audio CD.
1994 was kind "peak" quality: the loudness war on CDs just hadn't started yet and listening to music was often amazing for it was often played directly from CDs on actual stereos.
Crappy sound only arrived a few years when the first, lame, mp3 encoders arrived and became ubiquitous and everybody made lossy rip of CDs (because we didn't know how to rip losslessly yet from CDs) and then encoded them with poor encoders at shitty bitrates (like 128 kbps mp3 were really a thing in the late 90s, for Napster sharing).
So it's really strange to take music from 1994, which is precisely a year were nobody listened to "shitty format" music yet on his PC.
FWIW I had my first CD player in 1988 or so.
It's only in the late 90s that music quality for listening experience went seriously downhill, with people listening to shitty 128 kbps mp3 on their shitty, tiny, Logitech speakers.
Nowadays all is good and fine again: Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz... It's all good sounding again. And many acceptable soundbars and systems came out (like Sonos and whatnots).
So yup I don't get it: to me it's "fake retro" because 1994 music was enjoyed from CDs, on speakers hooked to a stereo (which were never as shitty as those tiny Logitech speakers and similar hooked to PCs).
I just don't understand what this is: I must be getting old... But then as I'm getting old, it means I was there in 1994 and it's definitely not the 1994 I remember. It's kinda fake retro for something that never existed.
It's really strange. I probably don't get it.
I was there listening to punk rock and "grunge" rock in 1994. Back then nobody listened to music on his computer (the .mp3 format didn't even exist yet: at least not with that name) except if it was using the PC's CD drive, to play an audio CD.
1994 was kind "peak" quality: the loudness war on CDs just hadn't started yet and listening to music was often amazing for it was often played directly from CDs on actual stereos.
Crappy sound only arrived a few years when the first, lame, mp3 encoders arrived and became ubiquitous and everybody made lossy rip of CDs (because we didn't know how to rip losslessly yet from CDs) and then encoded them with poor encoders at shitty bitrates (like 128 kbps mp3 were really a thing in the late 90s, for Napster sharing).
So it's really strange to take music from 1994, which is precisely a year were nobody listened to "shitty format" music yet on his PC.
FWIW I had my first CD player in 1988 or so.
It's only in the late 90s that music quality for listening experience went seriously downhill, with people listening to shitty 128 kbps mp3 on their shitty, tiny, Logitech speakers.
Nowadays all is good and fine again: Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz... It's all good sounding again. And many acceptable soundbars and systems came out (like Sonos and whatnots).
So yup I don't get it: to me it's "fake retro" because 1994 music was enjoyed from CDs, on speakers hooked to a stereo (which were never as shitty as those tiny Logitech speakers and similar hooked to PCs).
I just don't understand what this is: I must be getting old... But then as I'm getting old, it means I was there in 1994 and it's definitely not the 1994 I remember. It's kinda fake retro for something that never existed.
Speaking of the loudness wars, remember when Californication came out? I thought my copy (on cdrom) had been ripped from a distorted tape. Still one of my favourites though.
128 isnt a thing?
What bit rate does Spotify use for streaming online regular quality?
What bit rate does Spotify use for streaming online regular quality?
While I grant you that nobody enjoyed music directly from a Teddy Ruxpin in the 1990s, I think you’re wrong about this. It is nostalgic. And I think you’re missing the point that it’s supposed to be fun - they have player piano rolls and wax tubes for goodness sake.
About the 90s though - people used gameboys. People used PCs. Those devices had tons of music and music culture. Chiptunes, mod music makers and players, the demo scene are all late 80s into early 90s. The very first sound blaster card wasn’t even launched until November 1989; before then it was all pc speakers.
On the streets in the 1990s, people used walkmans, listened to tapes; in cars eight track was nostalgic, people listened to the radio and their tapes a lot. I didn’t have my first portable CD player until 1997 or so.
About the 90s though - people used gameboys. People used PCs. Those devices had tons of music and music culture. Chiptunes, mod music makers and players, the demo scene are all late 80s into early 90s. The very first sound blaster card wasn’t even launched until November 1989; before then it was all pc speakers.
On the streets in the 1990s, people used walkmans, listened to tapes; in cars eight track was nostalgic, people listened to the radio and their tapes a lot. I didn’t have my first portable CD player until 1997 or so.
Wow - what an amazing site!
Am I going to listen to the whole album after seeing this?
Of course I am!
Of course I am!
I remember reading article about illegal western music in Soviet times.
Creating vinyls out of xray images sounded ingenious, its amazing to hear one now.
Creating vinyls out of xray images sounded ingenious, its amazing to hear one now.
These are all great. Unfortunately it would just be another thing to collect dust on the shelf, realistically.
This is green day?
I have no feelings.
90s? Ween of course.
I have no feelings.
90s? Ween of course.
i liked the idea because it implies there could be an unlimited number of new art projects that can drive new streaming revenue of back catalog music.
then I saw the $0.003-0.005 per stream figure on spotify, and so your max upside for getting 1M plays is $50. At $50/M 10M plays might buy 1 dinner for the band.
they actually make more selling the teddy ruxpins. maybe someone had a warehouse full of them and this clears them?
then I saw the $0.003-0.005 per stream figure on spotify, and so your max upside for getting 1M plays is $50. At $50/M 10M plays might buy 1 dinner for the band.
they actually make more selling the teddy ruxpins. maybe someone had a warehouse full of them and this clears them?
To be clear, this is a raffle, and there are limited editions of each item. There is no way this is going to make money directly - it’s a fun fan engagement give away, and super creative. If I win one of 100 game boy cartridges, I will pay $39, which is probably close to the unit cost of making them, and will never pay back the software engineering time to create the cartridge. I assume most of the items are like that.
That's $3,000 to $5,000 per million. Or did you mean the Roman M?
walked right into that, as was thinking in terms of fractions of a cent instead of fractions of a dollar.
They are only offering one Teddy Ruxpin.
3 * 10^-3 * 10^6 == 3 * 10^3 == $3000 per million streams, not $30.
Site does not load, but for that conclusion, it takes forever. What is supposed to happen? Firefox w/ ublock origin.
I'm on Firefox with ublock origin and it works just fine.
Either way... the site is a store.. of sorts... for Greenday's "Dookie" album, where the songs are mixed down into various bizarre formats. They said de-mastered, and I was hoping that they were actually releasing the individual tracks. Sad.
Either way... the site is a store.. of sorts... for Greenday's "Dookie" album, where the songs are mixed down into various bizarre formats. They said de-mastered, and I was hoping that they were actually releasing the individual tracks. Sad.
[deleted]
Here is a quick 30 second trailer of what's on the site, from Green Day's YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziZ8SLooNx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziZ8SLooNx8
FF with ublock here, not seeing any difference between this and Chrome
This album got me into music!
Brilliant
this is so freaking cool
One of these tracks as an Opus file, 1.44MB long, shouldn't be that bad sound quality.
...but then, what would be the point? ;)
...but then, what would be the point? ;)
amazing album. amazing concept.
As someone who listened to music from this album on a shitty clock radio growing up, this feels perfect.
Now this is hackin'
Best shit I've heard in a while
A bit disappointing that the site itself requires 6.5MB to be transferred.
I never really understood the 'punk' genre assignment for this band.
Surprising take.
Their sound and ethos is undeniably pop punk.
They played Gilman St, a punk mecca in Berkeley. See some of their shows in the 90s and 00s. If you don't think that's punk, I don't know what to tell you.
They didn't do much fast skate punk type stuff like NOFX and No Use did, but punk is a super wide genre anyway; to me, it's about what you are, not how you play (see also: second wave ska a la Reel Big Fish and No Doubt, or country cow-punk, like Hank Williams III)
They leaned harder on the "pop" aspect of pop punk (American Idiot is widely considered one of the first punk operas ever made and is one of the best-selling rock albums ever) and experimented with their sound over the years (check out their stuff from the 2010s) but they never lost their edge, IMO (They dropped Saviors this year; incredible album.)
Regardless, they inspired a zillion punk bands of all kinds. Hell, FOD, one of my favorite pop punk bands from The Netherlands, was inspired by FOD, which is on this record!
Their sound and ethos is undeniably pop punk.
They played Gilman St, a punk mecca in Berkeley. See some of their shows in the 90s and 00s. If you don't think that's punk, I don't know what to tell you.
They didn't do much fast skate punk type stuff like NOFX and No Use did, but punk is a super wide genre anyway; to me, it's about what you are, not how you play (see also: second wave ska a la Reel Big Fish and No Doubt, or country cow-punk, like Hank Williams III)
They leaned harder on the "pop" aspect of pop punk (American Idiot is widely considered one of the first punk operas ever made and is one of the best-selling rock albums ever) and experimented with their sound over the years (check out their stuff from the 2010s) but they never lost their edge, IMO (They dropped Saviors this year; incredible album.)
Regardless, they inspired a zillion punk bands of all kinds. Hell, FOD, one of my favorite pop punk bands from The Netherlands, was inspired by FOD, which is on this record!
> See some of their shows in the 90s and 00s
I think this is part of the tension.
By the mid-90s, "punk" had evolved from something that was a small band of weirdos into something larger. For instance normal, run of the mill high school kids were shopping the aesthetic at Hot Topic. I'm not suggesting this was good nor bad. But there was a huge culture shift happening. At a minimum, the punk aesthetic had shifted into the mainstream and poppier acts like Green Day helped to make that happen.
So folks who had been used to getting made fun of and beat up for being punks in the 80s weren't always super happy to see this shift. Again, not suggesting they had the right to feel this way or not. But it happened.
In general countercultures built around nonconformity have these tensions. Participants preach the nonconformity, but then reject people who don't fit a certain aesthetic. Participants preach openness, but then get upset when too many people join. It's just how it goes.
I think this is part of the tension.
By the mid-90s, "punk" had evolved from something that was a small band of weirdos into something larger. For instance normal, run of the mill high school kids were shopping the aesthetic at Hot Topic. I'm not suggesting this was good nor bad. But there was a huge culture shift happening. At a minimum, the punk aesthetic had shifted into the mainstream and poppier acts like Green Day helped to make that happen.
So folks who had been used to getting made fun of and beat up for being punks in the 80s weren't always super happy to see this shift. Again, not suggesting they had the right to feel this way or not. But it happened.
In general countercultures built around nonconformity have these tensions. Participants preach the nonconformity, but then reject people who don't fit a certain aesthetic. Participants preach openness, but then get upset when too many people join. It's just how it goes.
Brett of Bad Religion said that Nirvana’s Bleach was the first punk album that lead the way of how Rancid and Green Day’s sound today. Or made punk rock mainstream back then.
Wow, the "is Green Day punk" argument also turned thirty. Probably older, I'm sure someone had it before Dookie.
A lot of punk has always had an anti-success edge, which seems really unfair. It should be more about DIY and freedom outside what was (in the 90's) a very restrictive, fixed business model. NOFX are the best of example of the punk aesthetic, but Green Day (the pop-punk band, not the Celtic folk band^) didn't sell out while achieving stratospheric success.
^Community reference
^Community reference
> A lot of punk has always had an anti-success edge
I think you hit it on the nail. What makes some people uptight about Green Day being punk is not the music -- because objectively, punk's pretty much on point. It's the fact that they were wildly successful. Can't be punk any more when that happens.
I think you hit it on the nail. What makes some people uptight about Green Day being punk is not the music -- because objectively, punk's pretty much on point. It's the fact that they were wildly successful. Can't be punk any more when that happens.
Sort of. Even before their commercial success this issue was coming up. Granted the commercial success turned the knob to 11. There were already debates about their sound, that it was too poppy and mainstream sounding.
Whether or not an ethos espousing rejecting authority should be applying authority on what other people sound like is another matter altogether :)
Whether or not an ethos espousing rejecting authority should be applying authority on what other people sound like is another matter altogether :)
> didn't sell out while achieving stratospheric success.
Their Keurig "partnership" might suggest otherwise. And it's not just because they've partnered with a huge corporation. But mainly because their coffee company - "Punk Bunny Coffee" - puts a huge emphasis on "sustainability". And while Keurig says sustainability is important, their actions suggest the exact opposite.
Their Keurig "partnership" might suggest otherwise. And it's not just because they've partnered with a huge corporation. But mainly because their coffee company - "Punk Bunny Coffee" - puts a huge emphasis on "sustainability". And while Keurig says sustainability is important, their actions suggest the exact opposite.
> while Keurig says sustainability is important, their actions suggest the exact opposite
The term is loose enough to possibly refer to making the business (not human life generally) be sustainable, though the green[day]washing angle is more likely.
The term is loose enough to possibly refer to making the business (not human life generally) be sustainable, though the green[day]washing angle is more likely.
> A lot of punk has always had an anti-success edge
Alternative take: punk, as enjoyed by the connoisseur, sounds terrible to people who don't like punk, which limits its success
Alternative take: punk, as enjoyed by the connoisseur, sounds terrible to people who don't like punk, which limits its success
No it is much older. I remember longstanding debates on alt.punk in USENET on this very topic before Dookie came out.
There are few things more punk that spawning a 30+ year argument about them not being punk enough to be considered punk. They don't conform enough to the standards of the non-conformists?
I haven’t participated in this conversation since Kerplunk was released!
San Francisco punk was always a little different but Green Day was part of the late 80s/early 90s punk scene in the Bay Area. It was all centered around 924 Gilman Street.
San Francisco punk was always a little different but Green Day was part of the late 80s/early 90s punk scene in the Bay Area. It was all centered around 924 Gilman Street.
It’s kinda punk pop. It has the intensity of punk. It definitely had the mosh pit element to it. I remember it being more intense than the grunge that was popular at the time.
It was on MTV alot. But then again so were Primus and Faith No More. It was a different time.
I was at the attempted free show in Boston in the 90s that ended after just a few songs.
https://youtu.be/O7cJUUZIvNk?si=Yr7ivWCICTC0MTi7
I thought I'd seen the end of the singing bass trophy, but if it has to come back this is a good way.
It was on MTV alot. But then again so were Primus and Faith No More. It was a different time.
I was at the attempted free show in Boston in the 90s that ended after just a few songs.
https://youtu.be/O7cJUUZIvNk?si=Yr7ivWCICTC0MTi7
I thought I'd seen the end of the singing bass trophy, but if it has to come back this is a good way.
This is getting downvoted, but I'd never even heard them referred to as punk before. And as a British former punk, I don't understand it either.
They were punk, just mainstream, pop punk. It was a common label for them in North America in the 90s.
I think "pop punk" is a good term, for me it's about the sound and delivery, it has nothing to do with commercial success, being "posers" etc. I think it's kind of evident from the music itself why someone who likes Dead Kennedys, Black Flag, Big Black, or GG Allin may not appreciate Green Day, NOFX and the likes (and vice versa). It's in the sound itself, ignoring the lyrics and everything else. Many bands without any mainstream success still play pop punk.
I think of punk as being three completely separate variables, and for any individual or band they're independent of each other:
1) Ethos
2) Aesthetics/look & feel
3) Musical sound
So someone could be punk as fuck ethos-wise but love listening to Yanni. Meanwhile a band could have a straight up anarcho-punk sound, but otherwise be white collar wage slaves
But this is the root of so much disagreement. When Green Day started ascending in the 80s, people were pointing out the poppy music as not being "punk". But that's just one variable.
1) Ethos
2) Aesthetics/look & feel
3) Musical sound
So someone could be punk as fuck ethos-wise but love listening to Yanni. Meanwhile a band could have a straight up anarcho-punk sound, but otherwise be white collar wage slaves
But this is the root of so much disagreement. When Green Day started ascending in the 80s, people were pointing out the poppy music as not being "punk". But that's just one variable.
You missed the fourth. Rebellion
Punk is about rebellion, pop-punk is a good umbrella term as they had rebellious vibes but to call Green Day punk is a bit of a stretch.
Punk is about rebellion, pop-punk is a good umbrella term as they had rebellious vibes but to call Green Day punk is a bit of a stretch.
I was including that as part of `Ethos`. DYI, anti-authority, etc.
> Many bands without any mainstream success still play pop punk.
The irony extends to the fact that while someone can play in the style of pop without being mainstream, they cannot literally be pop until they're popular. But if pop requires being popular and punk requires shunning the mainstream, pop punk couldn't exist. The fact that it does is therefore a bit of a paradox.
The irony extends to the fact that while someone can play in the style of pop without being mainstream, they cannot literally be pop until they're popular. But if pop requires being popular and punk requires shunning the mainstream, pop punk couldn't exist. The fact that it does is therefore a bit of a paradox.
As a former North American Punk, they were posers, not punks.
Ha! The amount of gatekeeping on the definition of punk that I've lived through makes me feel so old, but it also tickles me a little to see it come up again today. The more things change ...
Saying I'm punk, and you are not punk, is about the least punk thing you can do.
what about working for an investment bank? How punk is that on the scale?
Given how often they break laws, ignore social norms, and thumb their noses at authorities... pretty damn punk.
It could be very high on the scale. Like punks, bankers often don't ask for permission.
[deleted]
The classic No True Punksman fallacy.
Anyone who releases an album for sale is a poser. Trying to make money from music is unpunk.
As a self-confessed "former punk", do you really deserve to make that assessment?
Gatekeeping isn't punk
“One, two, three, four
Who’s punk what’s the score?”
Get outta here with the gatekeeping
Who’s punk what’s the score?”
Get outta here with the gatekeeping
Which band do you consider as punk?
Misfits
Black Flag
Ramones
TSOL
SNFU
Dead Kennedy's
Bad Brains
Descendents
Minor Threat
I think Punk was in its heyday in the 80's. I think its evolved over time and many people don't believe "pop punk" is really considered "punk" even though a lot of the themes we saw in the 80's punk bands are very clear and present in Green Day's music.
Which then begs the question what really defines punk music? I'm honestly not sure because many of the hallmarks of the 80's punk was the poor production, guitars out of tune, singers who couldn't sing very well - all of which have been greatly improved when you consider Green Day's music.
Billy Joe Armstrong is a phenomenal singer. Even on Dookie, the producer said a majority of the songs he did in a single take - which is staggering to think about. Their musical abilities are unquestionably much better than any of the 80's punk bands. Tre Cool's drumming is just on another level and I'm not sure many 80's era punk band drummers could ever hang with his abilities. Even the production level of Dookie was light years ahead of many of the seminal punk albums that came out in the 80's.
Its easy to claim that Green Day isn't a "real" punk band, but when you start to compare them to the "prototypical" bands in the 80's, they sing about many of the same things, but have elevated the genre beyond what its really been known for. In the end, I have a harder time not calling them punk, there's just too many similarities to many of the most popular bands people know.
Black Flag
Ramones
TSOL
SNFU
Dead Kennedy's
Bad Brains
Descendents
Minor Threat
I think Punk was in its heyday in the 80's. I think its evolved over time and many people don't believe "pop punk" is really considered "punk" even though a lot of the themes we saw in the 80's punk bands are very clear and present in Green Day's music.
Which then begs the question what really defines punk music? I'm honestly not sure because many of the hallmarks of the 80's punk was the poor production, guitars out of tune, singers who couldn't sing very well - all of which have been greatly improved when you consider Green Day's music.
Billy Joe Armstrong is a phenomenal singer. Even on Dookie, the producer said a majority of the songs he did in a single take - which is staggering to think about. Their musical abilities are unquestionably much better than any of the 80's punk bands. Tre Cool's drumming is just on another level and I'm not sure many 80's era punk band drummers could ever hang with his abilities. Even the production level of Dookie was light years ahead of many of the seminal punk albums that came out in the 80's.
Its easy to claim that Green Day isn't a "real" punk band, but when you start to compare them to the "prototypical" bands in the 80's, they sing about many of the same things, but have elevated the genre beyond what its really been known for. In the end, I have a harder time not calling them punk, there's just too many similarities to many of the most popular bands people know.
> Which then begs the question what really defines punk music?
Rebellion against the mass.
Sex Pistols, The Ramones, Joy Division are some of the leading pioneers of the movement.
The 80's I would say is more toward post-punk. This split off in to Goth with The Cure, Siouxsie and the Banshees then genres such as New Wave, Synth with the likes of Depeche Mode and Gary Numan.
The same as grunge did in the US with Nirvana and the likes. I would say that Grunge was America's post-punk phase.
90's then saw the age of pop, and pop-punk came from that. Media was more available.
While Green Day held strong lyrics it's wasn't it. It didn't have the true spirit of punk. It was more rebellious against your parents as a teenager type vibe rather than take down the nation like prior. But I stand to be corrected.
I've never really liked Blink, Offspring and Green Day. I was to busy being script kiddie, 13 listening to chiptunes and goth.
Rebellion against the mass.
Sex Pistols, The Ramones, Joy Division are some of the leading pioneers of the movement.
The 80's I would say is more toward post-punk. This split off in to Goth with The Cure, Siouxsie and the Banshees then genres such as New Wave, Synth with the likes of Depeche Mode and Gary Numan.
The same as grunge did in the US with Nirvana and the likes. I would say that Grunge was America's post-punk phase.
90's then saw the age of pop, and pop-punk came from that. Media was more available.
While Green Day held strong lyrics it's wasn't it. It didn't have the true spirit of punk. It was more rebellious against your parents as a teenager type vibe rather than take down the nation like prior. But I stand to be corrected.
I've never really liked Blink, Offspring and Green Day. I was to busy being script kiddie, 13 listening to chiptunes and goth.
I saw a YouTube video from (I think) Punk Rock MBA that says that the difference between "Pop Punk" and "Punk" has nothing to do with the sound of the music, or even how popular the band is (The Clash played stadium shows), but more to do with the idea of the guys from Blink 182 hosting MTV Spring Break. It's about band members acting like legitimate pop stars instead of street kids.
anything played on wmbr's "Late Riser's Club"
https://wmbr.org/cgi-bin/show?id=8533
"It's like sewing your ear to a vacuum cleaner. "
though they include metal now.
https://wmbr.org/cgi-bin/show?id=8533
"It's like sewing your ear to a vacuum cleaner. "
though they include metal now.
The Sex Pistols, The Ramones
[deleted]
Uh oh... Nintendo intellectual property?
RIP in peace
RIP in peace
The cash grabs from this band is insane, they are basically KISS at this point.
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